View Full Version : Bruce Wayne R.I.P.? I hope so.
vitorocks1
03-07-2008, 12:52 AM
Ever since I saw the "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Final Crisis teaser I have been racking my brain thinking, "Which hero would DC kill off?". DC has promised us a big death for a while now, and I don't how anyone else feels but, I don't feel we got it. It was rumoured that Nightwing, the first Robin, was supposed to get it at the end of Infinte Crisis but DC either chickened out or because of the whole Superboy(yes I said it Superboy, there it is again, he will always be Superboy...man I miss him**sniff**) fiasco changed the ending to solve that issue, but you know .....killing off a clone isn't really a big death for obvious reasons. Impulse/Flash's death....he was a Flash for what a week....nope sorry not a big death in my book, besides technically he wasn't even born yet. Death of the New Gods, a whole seperate story. What is my point I guess, well I want the big death that we were promised and if I am right, I bet it is Bruce Wayne, the Batman. We got Morrison on both Batman and Final Crisis, and we all know Morrison is not afraid of killing big heroes. Batman R.I.P. storyline coming out soon. Remember the first Countdown teaser, Superman crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over. Comics like Batman, Justice League of America, Teen Titans, and even Flash have hinted at the demise of Bruce or at least a different Batman. Of course to replace Bruce Wayne you would need one who has gone through similar pain and turmoil as he has, one who is just as crazy. How about someone that has gone through even more than ol' Bruce, imagine Dick Grayson watching Bruce Wayne die right before his eyes by...example the Joker, that would put Nightwing through 2 times the amount of parent deaths, plus not to mention all of the repressed issues that boy has from all of his superheroings since he was a teenager. Nightwing could very well surpass Bruce as a darker Batman. And you know with Damien and Jason Todd in the picture....well there are way to many bat-boys running around that they could stand to lose someone in their circle. They just brought in Damien(The new Robin?), brought back Jason(the new Nightwing?), chickened out on killing Dick(the new Batman?) and Tim....well poor Tim has a lot of issues that I would not be surprised if he became a villain himself. It fits so well that the only comic book that would be affected would be the Nightwing series which would probably be replaced by the Red Robin series, which we all know is eventually going to be released. Anyways how else are they really gonna make Batman a "Legend" that will "Live Forever".
a-spidey
03-07-2008, 01:23 AM
well, i hope not. Batman aka Bruce Wayne is my favorite DC Character and killing him would be horrible for me. I'm also not sure if they would do it with the new Batman movie coming up. They can kill Wonder Woman and replace her, wouldn't be the first time afaik.
brundlefly
03-07-2008, 10:10 AM
with the new Batman movie coming up.
This is why Bruce is safe, despite any teases or foreshadowing of his demise. Batman's not going to get killed off when he's got a movie coming out, just like Iron Man over in Marvel's not going to get killed off for the same reason, despite all the speculation & rumors.
Of the six heroes in the FC teaser image, my money's on WW, Hawkman, or Flash (seeing as how Dini keeps giggling about how it's "not a Crisis without a dead Flash") taking the dirt nap if one of the pictured characters is, for some reason, 'required' to die because of the "Heroes Die" tagline.
vitorocks1
03-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Wally West the Flash just got back no way its him, and Hawkman, well I personally don't think that someone who continously gets resurrected throughout time counts as a death, not the one we were promised anyway.
And as for the movie, Bruce Wayne will not die until way after the movie comes....like maybe the end of Final Crisis at the end of the year.
Come on I love Bruce too...but really who else could it be?
In the latest Wizard there was an Interview with Morrison about Batmans death. His response was:
"Yea something big is about to happen to Batman - something irreversible - but it's not what you think it is. The idea that Batman is going to die is simple compared to what is going to happen to him [laughs] Death is the least of it.
If the Bats does die I presume it will be close to the same death as Supermans back in '91
Choppa
03-07-2008, 11:20 AM
My god! Have you ever heard of paragraphs!?!
And the big "irreversable" change is probably the "new" costume.
BrikHed21
03-07-2008, 11:39 AM
My god! Have you ever heard of paragraphs!?!
The only way it could be better is without punctuation.
And the big "irreversable" change is probably the "new" costume.
I am with you - it is NOT death
Captain Jim
03-07-2008, 12:00 PM
I just don't understand why people get so excited about somebody dying. Especially anymore, when you know it won't be permanent.
Chiroptera
03-07-2008, 12:18 PM
I'm with Jim here.
And I think folks are reading into this tag line WAY to strongly.
It's pretty much the same old line: "Old Soldiers never die, they just fade away."
It DOESN'T meant someone has to die folks, it's just a statement. It's a message the same as "Hope springs eternal." "Never give up, never surrender" and all that other morale boosting razzmitazz. Every time someone reads a death into a message just because it has the word die in it I feel this over whelming urge to find something heavy and strike them with it.
Christopher Cross Is God
03-07-2008, 12:24 PM
I just don't understand why people get so excited about somebody dying. Especially anymore, when you know it won't be permanent.
Correct.
Here's to looking forward to (hopefully soon) resurrections of Monsieur Mallah & The Brain, one of the most endearing couples in comic book history, as well as Power Boy.
The Shadow
03-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Remember the first Countdown teaser, Superman crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over.
Lois Lane.
DC won't kill Batman with a moving coming up and then there's the fact he's their most popular character.
Choppa
03-07-2008, 02:02 PM
Lol at Superman crying about Bruce's death
Rattlehead
03-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Wally West the Flash just got back no way its him, and Hawkman, well I personally don't think that someone who continously gets resurrected throughout time counts as a death, not the one we were promised anyway.
Barry Allan is trapped in the Legion of Superheroes' lightning rod from the Lightning Saga story in JLA. Barry gets revived only to die again. Or they bite the bullet, realize the Flash book is a failure right now, and off Wally in favor of Barry.
And as for the movie, Bruce Wayne will not die until way after the movie comes....like maybe the end of Final Crisis at the end of the year.
Come on I love Bruce too...but really who else could it be?
Christopher Nolan is doing a trilogy of Batman movies.
elise
03-07-2008, 04:10 PM
Lol at Superman crying about Bruce's death
Why is that funny? It depends on who's writing, but often they're written as good, or even best, friends.
the-wolf
03-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Sorry, but I've never gotten why people think Dick can replace Bruce as Batman. Different characters with different ways of thinking and viewpoints on life. Different methods of operating too. And then there's the height thing. A 5'10" guy just can't replace a 6'2" guy and hope to be nearly as scary.
Besides, the whole thing was explored after Knightfall in "Prodigy" I think it was called. There's zero reason to repeat it.
IMO the death of a major character is just going to cause a backlash anyways. It's unoriginal and a rip-off of Captain America, we now know beyond any measure of doubt that said character will return and people have been complaining about Death Comics for the last 2 years.
The only thing that makes sense is to reset the clock, but too many people seem to be against that too.
I'm not sure what else is left? Personally, I expect disappointment.
brundlefly
03-07-2008, 04:55 PM
Sorry, but I've never gotten why people think Dick can replace Bruce as Batman. Different characters with different ways of thinking and viewpoints on life. Different methods of operating too. And then there's the height thing. A 5'10" guy just can't replace a 6'2" guy and hope to be nearly as scary.
Besides, the whole thing was explored after Knightfall in "Prodigy" I think it was called. There's zero reason to repeat it.
IMO the death of a major character is just going to cause a backlash anyways. It's unoriginal and a rip-off of Captain America, we now know beyond any measure of doubt that said character will return and people have been complaining about Death Comics for the last 2 years.
The only thing that makes sense is to reset the clock, but too many people seem to be against that too.
I'm not sure what else is left? Personally, I expect disappointment.
Prodigal was the Dick-as-Batman story.
I agree with you, in that they've already done the replacement thing once (well, twice, actually, what with Jean-Paul). Bruce Wayne is Batman; there's no need for yet another story of a temp placeholder filling the Batman cowl until Bruce returns. I'd be happy with Final Crisis just a good, compelling DCU story; no need for sales gimmicks like a Death Comic or a Continuity Reboot.
If it's a "I am the Bat" idea, Bats ignoring Brucey (which he can keep doing in my opinion, no gas left in that tank, he's 90% better as Batman) Spidey's already went through that renouncing Peter Parker...
It'd fit Bruce like a glove here
the goddamn batman
03-07-2008, 05:05 PM
And the big "irreversable" change is probably the "new" costume.
But costumes are completely reversable... :confused:
carabas
03-07-2008, 05:22 PM
crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over.Lois Lane, Lana Lang, a significantly large number of random dead people, Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl, and a whole bunch of others.
Denny Colt
03-07-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm a little baffled why people either get excited or upset about a character dying in comics. It is becoming the most overused device around. How about an original idea, or at least an original twist on an old idea, or how about just an "idea". If Batman dies I'll yawn all the way to his resurrection.
the-wolf
03-07-2008, 05:48 PM
Prodigal was the Dick-as-Batman story.
That's it. Thank you.
ultramandingo
03-07-2008, 06:08 PM
........ so who hasnt " died "in the dcu? - is bats the only one of the " big 7 " who didnt need a sales boost ? it worked for aquaman , right?
Getting rid of "Bruce Wayne" would only be a novelty at best. It is an essential element of the Batman mythos.
Personally, I think they have done the completely dark obsessive Batman for a long time and it might be time to try some other things. If it was me, I would turn things around and use Wayne more instead of less. a man of wealth and power like Bruce Wayne can do things that even Batman cannot.
I think having Wayne start to come to a bit more than just a figurehead in his own company could be interesting. "He plays like he is just a dumb playboy, but that guy is a business shark." With the whole Brother Eye thing and how Morrison wrote him in JLA, DC has been playing Batman as almost this Ozymandias kind of character that sees all, knows all and is constantly manipulating for his needs. Expanding out and using Bruce Wayne for those needs could be interesting. They used to play Bruce Wayne a bit more of an industrialist in the Penthouse days in the 70s.
I could see a storyline where some big shot is getting leaned on both by Bruce Wayne in a business sense and Batman in a crime fighting sense at the same time, even with the villain maybe thinking Batman is working for Wayne.
At the same time, I think killing off Jimmy Olsen or Lois Lane is just as lame as those characters are so ingrained in the Superman mythology, that even if they are dead, you just know that Superman is going to spin the world backwards and get them back.
They also just kind of did the whole abandoning Bruce Wayne and Batman working out of the sewer thing with the Bruce Wayne: Murder and Fugitive story lines a few years back.
If DC is looking for a big Batman series, I would do a long (24 to 50 issues) maybe bi-weekly or weekly 52 style team written mini-series called "Batman and Robin" and re-tell "in-continuity" a bunch of stories with Dick Grayson as Robin. They could use it to tell some new stories, update some old ones and tie some others into continuity.
flapjaxx
03-07-2008, 08:03 PM
But it's not "Bruce Wayne RIP", it's "Batman RIP"...
Bruce Wayne is calling a press conference and he wants to make a huge announcement. Now what do you think that announcement might be?
P.S. Also look how "Batman RIP" leads to a LITERAL rip in Batman on the cover of #677: http://dccomics.com/comics/?cm=9306 This RIP allows for Bruce and Jezebel to be together. I know Morrison mentioned something about the significance of this Ross cover in one of the interviews.
vitorocks1
03-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by carabas
Lois Lane, Lana Lang, a significantly large number of random dead people, Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl, and a whole bunch of others.
They will never kill Lois Lane it is the only marriage that works in comics, Supergirl is another one that just came back, Jimmy Olsen is going to become more of a partner for Superman after Countdown and Lana Lang would never be a big death.
Originally Posted by flapjaxx
But it's not "Bruce Wayne RIP", it's "Batman RIP"...
Bruce Wayne R.I.P. is just the title of this thread.
Bruce Wayne coming out of the cave is just as bad as trying to kill Bruce Wayne off. Yea it would be temporary, but not original.
Let's see if they tried to kill him, as in he died, no ifs and buts about it: then it'd be hard to resurrect him unless he were to pull of something like he did in TDKR, or if they recton the death, or if they resurrect him. I would hate all three choices because part of what attracts me to Batman is that he's still human. Start messing around with his life and death like other 'super' heroes and it just ruins that part of humanity that not many superheroes have.
If they tried to have Bruce Wayne come out of the cave, the only way to fix it would be through a retcon and that would again lead me back to this idea of him losing that bit of humanity since HIS timeline was specifically altered. Not like Superman-Prime who retconned Todd back. It had an effect on Batman of course, but it wasn't Batman's life which was altered directly. And sure they could make some interesting stories for a bit of Bruce Wayne as a public figure known as the Batman but then again part of what makes Batman who he is, is that he's supposed to be a symbol to the underworld. Sure some people know who he is (actually quite a lot of people have seen him unmasked) but if he publicly unmasked himself, then it just wouldn't work as well for a long period of time.
Unless of course Bruce doesn't come out the cave and he just decides to call it quits from being Batman which would be interesting because we could see perhaps guys like Tim, Jason, Dick, or Damien trying to continue what Bruce started without Bruce actually helping them out anymore.
The Shadow
03-07-2008, 11:32 PM
Lois Lane, Lana Lang, a significantly large number of random dead people, Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl, and a whole bunch of others.
Ma and Pa Kent too!
Preus
03-07-2008, 11:40 PM
well, i hope not. Batman aka Bruce Wayne is my favorite DC Character and killing him would be horrible for me. I'm also not sure if they would do it with the new Batman movie coming up. They can kill Wonder Woman and replace her, wouldn't be the first time afaik.
Killing Batman would be the worst mistake they could make. Batman is one of their best heroes & I doubt they'll ever kill him off.
the goddamn batman
03-08-2008, 12:33 AM
Sure they would. Then they'd bring him back. DC killed effing Superman. They'll kill anyone; it's comic books... people can come back.
Also, isn't the death of Superman, like, one of the best selling comics... ever?
BrikHed21
03-08-2008, 01:16 AM
"IF" they did kill him.... and that is a big IF....... can you imagine the problems managing a new Batman in the DCU? With all of the titles and all of the writers involved in those various titles every single person is going to have their take on the NEW Batman. Dini, Morrison, and Dixon all have slightly different takes on a version with 60 plus years of history.
We all know if he dies it will be a short amount of time before he is back - let's face it we are all just waiting for Steve to walk up behind Buckie and say OK let me show you how this is done.
a-spidey
03-08-2008, 02:09 AM
I'm a little baffled why people either get excited or upset about a character dying in comics. It is becoming the most overused device around. How about an original idea, or at least an original twist on an old idea, or how about just an "idea". If Batman dies I'll yawn all the way to his resurrection.
i agree, it's really annoying when writers wanna justify their so called "big event" with deaths of some heroes. Just to make it look like a important story. But that's always just a pretty cheap move.
Rabid Trekkie
03-08-2008, 06:48 AM
The closest I want DC to come to killing off Batman is maybe faking his death. Something similar to what Sherlock Holmes did. Maybe Ra's al Ghul overcomes what Bats does to him in Resurrection, and starts to organize villains all over the globe (similar to Grodd in JLU) and Bats knows that he has to "die" in order to truly fight him and no one can know the truth.
Okay so maybe that isn't such a great idea, but it would be better than just killing him.
Comicbookfan
03-08-2008, 08:16 AM
I don't think Bruce will die, one because i don't think DC has the guts to pull that off. Plus it would seem to close to the death of Captain America over at marvel. I think the other side of the coin would be for Bruce Wayne to give up being Batman to get married and try to live a normal life while Dick Grayson takes over as Batman. Then Dick after about a year of stories would die, forcing Bruce Wayne to take back the mantle of BATMAN and bring Dicks killer to justice. You kill two birds with one stone and still get Bruce alive so you don't have to go through some lame resurection story that quite frankly we have seen a billion times. Also the way to solve the Batman being married thing is that the guy who kills Dick also kills Bruce Wayne's Wife. neat little package.
Comicbookfan
03-08-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm a little baffled why people either get excited or upset about a character dying in comics. It is becoming the most overused device around. How about an original idea, or at least an original twist on an old idea, or how about just an "idea". If Batman dies I'll yawn all the way to his resurrection.
I Agree 100% death in comics is boring and over used simply because we KNOW there will be a resurection if not by who ever is on top of the company at the time then by who ever comes in and decides the best way to get good press is to "Give the Fans What they Want!" and just bring back the character. HACKS.
metalhead_dave743
03-08-2008, 08:20 AM
I don't think Bruce will die, one because i don't think DC has the guts to pull that off. Plus it would seem to close to the death of Captain America over at marvel. I think the other side of the coin would be for Bruce Wayne to give up being Batman to get married and try to live a normal life while Dick Grayson takes over as Batman. Then Dick after about a year of stories Dick would die (because for some reason Dan Didio likes Jason Todd over Dick i don't get it) forcing Bruce Wayne to take back the mantle of BATMAN and bring dicks killer to justice. You kill two birds with one stone and still get Bruce alive so you don't have to go through some lame resurection story that quite frankly we have seen a billion times. Also the way to solve the Batman being married thing is that the guy who kills Dick also kills Bruce Wayne's Wife. neat little package.
Can the guy be Jason?
Comicbookfan
03-08-2008, 09:13 AM
Can the guy be Jason?
I would decently make Jason ether the killer or be the mastermind behind the killings. Jason Todd Works as a villain to me far more than he works as a hero.
I hope they don't kill bruce, he would only come back anyway he's simply too popular. Maybe he could disapear for a while and have dick take the mantle? It wouldn't really be batman as he isn't even close to being on parr with bruce. Maybe it could work differently.
vitorocks1
03-08-2008, 12:28 PM
I hope they don't kill bruce, he would only come back anyway he's simply too popular. Maybe he could disapear for a while and have dick take the mantle? It wouldn't really be batman as he isn't even close to being on parr with bruce. Maybe it could work differently.
Dick could take the mantle, say if he witnessed Bruce Wayne's death, that would throw Dick into a dark spiral especially if a villain kills Bruce. He would be a way darker Batman, since Bruce right now is free of demons and such.
vitorocks1
03-08-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't think Bruce will die, one because i don't think DC has the guts to pull that off. Plus it would seem to close to the death of Captain America over at marvel. I think the other side of the coin would be for Bruce Wayne to give up being Batman to get married and try to live a normal life while Dick Grayson takes over as Batman. Then Dick after about a year of stories would die, forcing Bruce Wayne to take back the mantle of BATMAN and bring Dicks killer to justice. You kill two birds with one stone and still get Bruce alive so you don't have to go through some lame resurection story that quite frankly we have seen a billion times. Also the way to solve the Batman being married thing is that the guy who kills Dick also kills Bruce Wayne's Wife. neat little package.
They already chickened out on killing Dick in Infinite Crisis, i don't think they will go down that road.
Marsh-El
03-08-2008, 01:05 PM
Batman is not going to die the same year his movie comes out. No way. Superman is crying in that first teaser image because "Jimmie Olsen must die". Remember that tag line? I think Olsen gets it and maybe somehow Batman becomes a new New God and therefore his mortal self is dead? Maybe Trinity is about the big three becoming New Gods? Just a theory.
Emperor Time
03-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Batman is not going to die the same year his movie comes out. No way. Superman is crying in that first teaser image because "Jimmie Olsen must die". Remember that tag line? I think Olsen gets it and maybe somehow Batman becomes a new New God and therefore his mortal self is dead? Maybe Trinity is about the big three becoming New Gods? Just a theory.
I feel the same way.
vitorocks1
03-08-2008, 01:33 PM
Batman is not going to die the same year his movie comes out. No way. Superman is crying in that first teaser image because "Jimmie Olsen must die". Remember that tag line? I think Olsen gets it and maybe somehow Batman becomes a new New God and therefore his mortal self is dead? Maybe Trinity is about the big three becoming New Gods? Just a theory.
Of course they won't kill off Bruce before the movie comes out, but by the time Final Crisis ends the movie will be on dvd/blu-ray/hd or whatever you kids are watching these days. And DC has said that Jimmy Olsen won't die but will play more of a role in the Superman books and Morrison said that the whole idea of heroes becoming New Gods was really only an idea.
I understand that the idea of killing Batman is upsetting or unbelievable for some but I totally think it is time, and especially with all the ressurections going on nowadays why wouldn't they....it work for Marvel with Captain America and Bucky/Winter Soldier.....and let not forget DC's very own Superman whom is their biggest property and character. Back then people said Superman would never die. This is how they are going to make a real Legend out of Batman. "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Remember that.
Marsh-El
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
Of course they won't kill off Bruce before the movie comes out, but by the time Final Crisis ends the movie will be on dvd/blu-ray/hd or whatever you kids are watching these days. And DC has said that Jimmy Olsen won't die but will play more of a role in the Superman books and Morrison said that the whole idea of heroes becoming New Gods was really only an idea.
I understand that the idea of killing Batman is upsetting or unbelievable for some but I totally think it is time, and especially with all the ressurections going on nowadays why wouldn't they....it work for Marvel with Captain America and Bucky/Winter Soldier.....and let not forget DC's very own Superman whom is their biggest property and character. Back then people said Superman would never die. This is how they are going to make a real Legend out of Batman. "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Remember that.
Who's to say it's time for Batman to die? I'm not opposed to Batman being killed but only if it benefits the story and makes sense. I don't want Morrison killing Bats for the sake of killing a major character or for the shock value of it or to keep up with Marvel.
If the movie comes out in the summer and let's just say it's a big hit, presumably new readers will be attracted to Bat comics. They're gonna pick up their first issue and then four or five issues later they're welcomed into the Batverse by his death? I'm not buying it, why would DC/Warner Bros do that?
I can think of a lot of other characters who would be vaulted to Legend status by sacrificing themselves for the greater good. Bats already is a real Legend to most people. I'm not saying it won't happen...Morrison is nuts and DC has been getting their butts kicked by Marvel lately (sales wise...desperate times call for desperate measures), I just hope it's done right and not forced...if it happens.
Dick could take the mantle, say if he witnessed Bruce Wayne's death, that would throw Dick into a dark spiral especially if a villain kills Bruce. He would be a way darker Batman, since Bruce right now is free of demons and such.
good point, bruce needs to fall off the wagon....we need some villian to kill dick or tim and that'll have him plagued with trouble for a good decade of books.
vitorocks1
03-08-2008, 04:12 PM
IGN Comics: Speaking of Batman RIP – what should fans expect from this arc? Judging from the name of the arc and the last shots of #674, it almost seems like we're either going to see a world without Batman or a world without Bruce Wayne.
Morrison: [laughs] I will say this – the first page of Batman RIP has a completely different Batman and Robin in it. You'll see things like the new Batmobile and we learn what happens to Batman over the course of the next six issues. The Joker comes back in a real badass, dark way. We've got the Club of Villains that we hinted at in the "Club of Heroes" arc, so they come into play. And basically the whole thing is about the final machinations of the [big villain] and how Batman's been maneuvered in a way he's never been before and can't get out of.
I really don't think he is talking about some elseworlds type of thing, here is the link for the rest of the interview. Man I hope he does die.
http://comics.ign.com/articles/857/857602p1.html
ultimatespyder20
03-08-2008, 04:19 PM
I'm looking forward to it, but does anyone else think that R.I.P. may not stand for what we all think?
Alec
metalhead_dave743
03-08-2008, 04:41 PM
Vito, you want Batman to die so much? Fine watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUAXIMoZuBM
Happy now?
Spiffy
03-08-2008, 05:57 PM
Its a shame its called "Batman R.I.P." and not actually "Bruce Wayne R.I.P.".
Because that might lead to an interesting story where only the SECRET IDENTITY dies--not the man. Not another person taking over Batman. It's still Bruce. He's just dead to the world as Bruce.
Not that this would last either. But it might have been fascinating to explore a world where everyone except the few privy to his dual identity thinks he's dead. I'm sure that's actually been done for short hauls before--an issue or two. But do it for a year or two of comics and you have something new.
Choppa
03-08-2008, 06:41 PM
^Check out Bruce Wayne: Murderer? Bruce becomes schizo and stays Batman full time.
DoctorDoom
03-08-2008, 06:58 PM
This is going to be quite a ride. That much is certain.
vitorocks1
03-09-2008, 04:06 AM
Vito, you want Batman to die so much? Fine watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUAXIMoZuBM
Happy now?
You know truth was it was sorta neat, but let me tell you, no way does Batman get taken down by a kick in the nuts. NO WAY.
metalhead_dave743
03-09-2008, 04:32 AM
You know truth was it was sorta neat, but let me tell you, no way does Batman get taken down by a kick in the nuts. NO WAY.
Oh yeah I know. There was so much wrong with that movie. Especially the Bat Rape.
ZombieHavoc
03-09-2008, 07:11 AM
^Check out Bruce Wayne: Murderer? Bruce becomes schizo and stays Batman full time.
Yeah, but in that story, the only person that believes Bruce Wayne is dead is Batman.
To the general public, Bruce Wayne was just on the run, in hiding somewhere.
I think a story where everyone thinks Bruce Wayne is dead would be interesting.
ZombieHavoc
03-09-2008, 07:12 AM
And, oh yeah, if Bruce Wayne actually dies, I think it's safe to say my days of reading DC universe books are over.
mohammedali
03-09-2008, 09:36 AM
Anyone consider the possibility that Batman RIP shows Bruce Wayne going public with being Batman? Maybe that's what the death of Batman relates to - given that Batman is a 'urban legend', not a person.
It would fit in with Kingdom Come, where everyone knows that Bruce Wayne is the Batman.
Oh yeah I know. There was so much wrong with that movie. Especially the Bat Rape.
The fact they gave the ball-tazing dramatic slow-motion is priceless.
vitorocks1
03-09-2008, 01:09 PM
Immediately, Marts enthusiastically mentioned Billy Tucci’s Sgt. Rock and the Lost Battalion project and how Newsarama had covered the panel from the day before. He also mentioned Grant Morrison’s upcoming “Batman R.I.P.” and with a deep, cryptic voice said, “…and we mean it this time,” to the laughter of the audience. Marts added, Grant is not afraid to take risks,” and that, “[Morrison] is going to change the legend of the Dark Knight.” He also made it clear that the ramifications of the “Batman R.I.P.” storyline would at least affect the Batman book well into 2010.
This is just a little clip from the DC panel from the Megacon 2008. Could Dick Grayson be the next Batman until 2010.....what do you think....have I convinced anyone yet. Here is the link with the rest of the panel from Newsarama.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149467
Captain Jim
03-09-2008, 03:52 PM
^^^
From the same panel:
Someone asked about Red Robin and Marts cut him off quickly in a comedic fashion and said, “Batman R.I.P., next!”
That scares the crap out of me. If they replace Bruce Wayne with Jason Todd, I am going to be very, very upset.
HaroldAllnut
03-09-2008, 04:06 PM
Nightwing could very well surpass Bruce as a darker Batman. And you know with Damien and Jason Todd in the picture....well there are way to many bat-boys running around that they could stand to lose someone in their circle. They just brought in Damien(The new Robin?), brought back Jason(the new Nightwing?), chickened out on killing Dick(the new Batman?) and Tim....well poor Tim has a lot of issues that I would not be surprised if he became a villain himself. I am with you - it is NOT death
While I think it would be interesting to see DC grow a pair and make deaths permanent, it's not going to happen.
Something BIG will happen in Final Crisis; however, it won't be anything that we're speculating about.
flapjaxx
03-09-2008, 04:42 PM
Anyone consider the possibility that Batman RIP shows Bruce Wayne going public with being Batman? Maybe that's what the death of Batman relates to - given that Batman is a 'urban legend', not a person.
It would fit in with Kingdom Come, where everyone knows that Bruce Wayne is the Batman.
I've been saying this all along.
I don't understand why the title of this thread is "Bruce Wayne R.I.P.?", when Morrison's story is "Batman R.I.P.". I pointed that out a few pages ago and the response I got was "That's just the title of this thread". Well... DUH. I'm saying, Why are people assuming it's Bruce Wayne that's going to die? This thread is filled with a ton of speculation and worrying about something that's never been hinted at.
Final Crisis will just give DC an opportunity to change things back to the status quo anyway if they choose to do that.
vitorocks1
03-09-2008, 07:11 PM
I've been saying this all along.
I don't understand why the title of this thread is "Bruce Wayne R.I.P.?", when Morrison's story is "Batman R.I.P.". I pointed that out a few pages ago and the response I got was "That's just the title of this thread". Well... DUH. I'm saying, Why are people assuming it's Bruce Wayne that's going to die? This thread is filled with a ton of speculation and worrying about something that's never been hinted at.
Final Crisis will just give DC an opportunity to change things back to the status quo anyway if they choose to do that.
The death of Bruce Wayne has been hinted not only in the Batman comics, but Justice League #0 of the new series, both Titans of Tomorrow storylines and if you read the All Flash one shot book on the 2nd last page the is someone hand using a Flash ring with a Batman suit coming out instead of a Flash suit. I have mentioned this too, a couple pages ago. It is more than just speculation my friend. And yes throw in a new "crisis" and everything is fixed, but actually killing Bruce will be something noboby dared in regular continuity because he is Batman.
vitorocks1
03-09-2008, 07:13 PM
Oh I and think it would be Dick Grayson with a Bat-suit in a ring, probably from the Flash
flapjaxx
03-09-2008, 09:51 PM
The death of Bruce Wayne has been hinted not only in the Batman comics, but Justice League #0 of the new series, both Titans of Tomorrow storylines and if you read the All Flash one shot book on the 2nd last page the is someone hand using a Flash ring with a Batman suit coming out instead of a Flash suit. I have mentioned this too, a couple pages ago. It is more than just speculation my friend. And yes throw in a new "crisis" and everything is fixed, but actually killing Bruce will be something noboby dared in regular continuity because he is Batman.
It's "more than just speculation"... but it's a lot of speculation, based on an image of Superman crying and a Batman suit coming out of a ring, which you link to the death of Bruce Wayne. Why couldn't Bruce use such a suit? Why would Bruce have to die (rather than retire or pass the mantle on) for someone else to be Batman? If Bruce doesn't die during "Batman R.I.P.", then what would be the point of his death during Final Crisis if he's just going to come back at the end of the same story?
These are rhetorical questions, but if you could clearly lay out any other evidence that you might have for Bruce Wayne dying, then lay it out. I don't understand what these Justice League and Teen Titans references are. I don't believe you've explained that, but maybe I'm wrong. Your first post was very difficult to follow. You do know that the theory of Bruce dying to be reborn as a New God has been rebuffed by Morrison and DC?
I'm not saying "You're wrong!" I just don't see the clear evidence that leads you to think Bruce himself is going to die. It's hard to understand this when there's a lot of SPECULATION going on from all angles about who could replace Bruce, which is a story-angle that has indeed been taken up in the past (with Jean-Paul and then Dick replacing him--it's been done, people! And I think Morrison and Final Crisis want to do something different).
Pete26
03-09-2008, 11:48 PM
Perhaps Batman will die, but come back as a zombie:)
I think it could mean that Bruce will step down as Batman and there won't actually be a Batman, however, there may be a new "hero"?
Time will tell.
Choppa
03-10-2008, 07:37 AM
Yeah, but in that story, the only person that believes Bruce Wayne is dead is Batman.
To the general public, Bruce Wayne was just on the run, in hiding somewhere.
I think a story where everyone thinks Bruce Wayne is dead would be interesting.
Well I never said he died in that story so...
killaspartan
03-10-2008, 08:28 AM
Ever since I saw the "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Final Crisis teaser I have been racking my brain thinking, "Which hero would DC kill off?". DC has promised us a big death for a while now, and I don't how anyone else feels but, I don't feel we got it. It was rumoured that Nightwing, the first Robin, was supposed to get it at the end of Infinte Crisis but DC either chickened out or because of the whole Superboy(yes I said it Superboy, there it is again, he will always be Superboy...man I miss him**sniff**) fiasco changed the ending to solve that issue, but you know .....killing off a clone isn't really a big death for obvious reasons. Impulse/Flash's death....he was a Flash for what a week....nope sorry not a big death in my book, besides technically he wasn't even born yet. Death of the New Gods, a whole seperate story. What is my point I guess, well I want the big death that we were promised and if I am right, I bet it is Bruce Wayne, the Batman. We got Morrison on both Batman and Final Crisis, and we all know Morrison is not afraid of killing big heroes. Batman R.I.P. storyline coming out soon. Remember the first Countdown teaser, Superman crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over. Comics like Batman, Justice League of America, Teen Titans, and even Flash have hinted at the demise of Bruce or at least a different Batman. Of course to replace Bruce Wayne you would need one who has gone through similar pain and turmoil as he has, one who is just as crazy. How about someone that has gone through even more than ol' Bruce, imagine Dick Grayson watching Bruce Wayne die right before his eyes by...example the Joker, that would put Nightwing through 2 times the amount of parent deaths, plus not to mention all of the repressed issues that boy has from all of his superheroings since he was a teenager. Nightwing could very well surpass Bruce as a darker Batman. And you know with Damien and Jason Todd in the picture....well there are way to many bat-boys running around that they could stand to lose someone in their circle. They just brought in Damien(The new Robin?), brought back Jason(the new Nightwing?), chickened out on killing Dick(the new Batman?) and Tim....well poor Tim has a lot of issues that I would not be surprised if he became a villain himself. It fits so well that the only comic book that would be affected would be the Nightwing series which would probably be replaced by the Red Robin series, which we all know is eventually going to be released. Anyways how else are they really gonna make Batman a "Legend" that will "Live Forever".
*Punches u in the face*
vitorocks1
03-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Sorry I don't get it, are you getting punched in the face with my "quote", are you punching me in the face with my "quote", or are you imagining that my "quote" has a face that you are punching.
*roundhouse Batman kick to your chin* *and it felt good*
vitorocks1
03-10-2008, 01:48 PM
I don't understand what these Justice League and Teen Titans references are. I don't believe you've explained that, but maybe I'm wrong.
Basically, in Justice League #0 there is a "tomorrow" scene with Superman and Wonder Woman in Crime Alley talking about Bruce's death with Superman saying "Rest in peace, Bruce. More than anyone..."
Teen Titans #17-19, having the Teen Titans land 10 years in the future, discover from their futureselves that many heroes fall during a "crisis", which I think is Final Crisis. Then Teen Titans #50-54 the future Titans return to the past claiming the same. I think the whole point of them coming to the past was to push Robin to the dark side....because the last couple of pages has a scene in which Tim is talking to Luthor about replacing Batman even though he has yet to retire. Which, according to only my theory/speculation or whatever you guys want to call it, I believe Dick Grayson is Batman at this point.
Go ahead guys, throw your "Punches".
Choppa
03-10-2008, 02:40 PM
The JLA storyline was abanded and the Titans future isn't happening if I remember the ending correctly.
For what it's worth Morrison said that he's not gonig to die.
banana91
03-10-2008, 08:48 PM
In the latest Wizard there was an Interview with Morrison about Batmans death. His response was:
"Yea something big is about to happen to Batman - something irreversible - but it's not what you think it is. The idea that Batman is going to die is simple compared to what is going to happen to him [laughs] Death is the least of it.
Could he become a New God of the Fifth World? They said it was going to happen to all the major heroes, maybe it'll only happen to Bruce now?
vitorocks1
03-10-2008, 09:13 PM
that idea got scrapped
bjtrdff
03-10-2008, 09:42 PM
I still don't believe that was ever legitimately on the table, and the mere thought of it has been ridiculed in various interviews.
Mr.50
03-11-2008, 06:19 AM
Bruce/Batman is going to play the role of the great saviour of all humanity in Final Crisis just like Barry did in COIE. Somewhere during Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis (while they may not be a crossover they may reflect the same events from two different perspectives, either story giving you a complete story but both giving more detail) Bruce/Batman is going to DIE. Or appear to die. Then We will have a year of everyone sad about his death and finally we will have a revelation that he did not die during FC but was transported to Earth-1 just in time for the appearance of Earth-1 in 2009 as previously revealed.
(Obviously the above is speculation but it makes all of the comments that have been made trust but still leaves us with a "major death" and a franchise that is not really dead but just out of commission for 10-12 months)
Mr.50
carabas
03-11-2008, 08:50 AM
Somewhere during Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis (while they may not be a crossover they may reflect the same events from two different perspectives, either story giving you a complete story but both giving more detail) Bruce/Batman is going to DIE.Final Crisis and Morrison's Batman are not connected. Infinite Crisis is entirely stand-alone, and doesn't tie into any of the regular books.
Mr.50
03-11-2008, 08:57 AM
Final Crisis and Morrison's Batman are not connected. Infinite Crisis is entirely stand-alone, and doesn't tie into any of the regular books.
Where did anyone say that Final Crisis and Batman are not connected? Exspecially since Morrison is writing both? Also IC did tie into other books and for example the big fight between Kal-El and Kal-L was in IC #5 and it was replayed (and in much more detail) in an issue of either Action or Superman. This is the type of thing I am talking about. Also it allows DC to have a major kill and then a good explanation for bringing him back is that somehow he wound up on Earth-1 which everyone is waiting for but we have not seen yet.
Mr.50
carabas
03-11-2008, 10:17 AM
Where did anyone say that Final Crisis and Batman are not connected?Oops. It seems Morrison said that it may tie into the books that he and Johns are doing. I kinda doubt that he will have a major part of his Batman run be dependant on Final Crisis though.
Also IC did tie into [dozens of books]Yeah, I meant Final Crisis. I edited the post when I noticed my error, but not quickly enough, it seems.
Mr.50
03-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Oops. It seems Morrison said that it may tie into the books that he and Johns are doing. I kinda doubt that he will have a major part of his Batman run be dependant on Final Crisis though.
Yeah, I meant Final Crisis. I edited the post when I noticed my error, but not quickly enough, it seems.
Well I hear what you are saying. I guess its just an idea on my part. Why would we not see Earth-1 until 2009? And why would there be all these rumors (slightly more substantial then just a general rumor) and hints at a Bat-Death unless DC was going to do something to make it a big event and to seem like a major player dies? But do I really think they will kill Batman or Bruce Wayne for the long haul??? Not a chance. But this way it appears like he is dead; they make him martyr like DC loves to do and has the hero die to save everone else; then they bring him back living his Earth-1 life because he was transported there. Something like that.
Mr.50
4thHorseman
03-11-2008, 10:34 AM
Bruce gives up being Batman to try and focus on love life for once and get his head clear of all the recent events. During Batman RIP, there's going to be a battle for the mantle of the bat that will last 5-10 issues while Bruce is away which will end with Morrisons' 30 or so issue epic run.
That's my call.
vitorocks1
03-11-2008, 11:09 AM
Bruce/Batman is going to play the role of the great saviour of all humanity in Final Crisis just like Barry did in COIE. Somewhere during Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis (while they may not be a crossover they may reflect the same events from two different perspectives, either story giving you a complete story but both giving more detail) Bruce/Batman is going to DIE. Or appear to die. Then We will have a year of everyone sad about his death and finally we will have a revelation that he did not die during FC but was transported to Earth-1 just in time for the appearance of Earth-1 in 2009 as previously revealed.
(Obviously the above is speculation but it makes all of the comments that have been made trust but still leaves us with a "major death" and a franchise that is not really dead but just out of commission for 10-12 months)
Mr.50
That what I am talking about....but I am not so sure about this Earth-1 business.
Mr.50
03-11-2008, 11:24 AM
I though it was confirmed that one of the Powers that be said we will first see Earth-1 in 2009
ggersten
03-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Bruce Wayne dies and is revealed to be a Skrull, who made a deal with Mephisto to go to a world without a Fantastic Four.
ilios
03-11-2008, 10:59 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe Batman R.I.P. might end up being Batman finally killing someone and he has to deal with the consequences. That would be irreverseable. The R.I.P. could refer to the death of his vow never to take a life and therefore altering what Batman has stood for all this time..... just a thought.
vitorocks1
03-12-2008, 12:54 AM
Nope can't saay that I have.
carabas
03-12-2008, 01:22 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Batman R.I.P. might end up being Batman finally killing someone and he has to deal with the consequences. That would be irreverseable. The R.I.P. could refer to the death of his vow never to take a life and therefore altering what Batman has stood for all this time..... just a thought.That's atually pretty good. I could see Morrison doing something like that.
Just a Shadow
03-12-2008, 02:09 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Batman R.I.P. might end up being Batman finally killing someone and he has to deal with the consequences. That would be irreverseable. The R.I.P. could refer to the death of his vow never to take a life and therefore altering what Batman has stood for all this time..... just a thought.
That's a fantastic idea. I'd like that.
Mr.50
03-12-2008, 05:48 AM
I like it too but then it sort of smacks of the same move as WW killing Max Lord (of course this would be a much more interesting story) and then don't we have all of the same issues like the Earth-2 (Kal-L type) heros saying the New Earth heros are out of control, etc. I think this would be a much better story (especially because I just don't even think WW is a very interesting character) but it still seems sort of like a re-tred.
Mr.50
the-wolf
03-12-2008, 04:28 PM
I'm looking forward to it, but does anyone else think that R.I.P. may not stand for what we all think?
Alec
hmmmm.......interesting
the-wolf
03-12-2008, 04:37 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe Batman R.I.P. might end up being Batman finally killing someone and he has to deal with the consequences. That would be irreverseable. The R.I.P. could refer to the death of his vow never to take a life and therefore altering what Batman has stood for all this time..... just a thought.
hmmmmmmm............even more interesting
Batman being replaced - been done.
Batman without Bruce Wayne - been done.
Batman "irreversibly" (may as well be) dead - been done.
Bruce Wayne without Batman - boring.
Doppleganger Batman - been done.
Doesn't seem to leave much, does it? Which means we're either in for another boring re-tread or someone at DC finally had an original thought.
Or maybe Bruce Wayne adopts the identity of a new superhero? I don't think that's been done.
carabas
03-12-2008, 04:50 PM
hmmmmmmm............even more interesting
Batman being replaced - been done.
Batman without Bruce Wayne - been done.
Batman "irreversibly" (may as well be) dead - been done.
Bruce Wayne without Batman - boring.
Doppleganger Batman - been done.
Doesn't seem to leave much, does it?Original stories that haven't been done before haven't really existed for millenia.
the-wolf
03-12-2008, 05:01 PM
Original stories that haven't been done before haven't really existed for millenia.
Yeah, I'm refering to Batman stories as they may possibly relate to the R.I.P. storyline.
Its been said here and there but I just wanted to say, in my own words, that deaths of comic book characters are really, really worthless in almost every way. It will never stay permanent if this is a money making figure for the company and even if he wasn't they can simply use it as a marketing ploy in bringing him back for sales.
This is partially why I hate on Comic books of well-known super hero's. They come back and back and back so many times it's like, what the hell? This is what pushed me into Vertigo books with a beginning and an end, if people die, they die - I almost rarely have to deal with impossible ressurections. (i.e. - Tulip of Preacher :().
Anyhow, that's my piece.
carabas
03-13-2008, 02:20 AM
Yeah, I'm refering to Batman stories as they may possibly relate to the R.I.P. storyline.Considering the sheer hundreds of Batman stories, originality there is even more impossible, especially since writers are limited in what they can do because Batman is a WB cashcow with a movie coming out.
Batman becoming the new avatar of one of the New Gods hasn't been done, but higher management seems to have shut that on down...
mohammedali
03-13-2008, 08:01 AM
hmmmmmmm............even more interesting
Batman being replaced - been done.
Batman without Bruce Wayne - been done.
Batman "irreversibly" (may as well be) dead - been done.
Bruce Wayne without Batman - boring.
Doppleganger Batman - been done.
Doesn't seem to leave much, does it? Which means we're either in for another boring re-tread or someone at DC finally had an original thought.
Or maybe Bruce Wayne adopts the identity of a new superhero? I don't think that's been done.
Batman going public with his real identity of Bruce Wayne - Not done, and could be very very cool if done well
BrikHed21
03-13-2008, 08:04 AM
Batman going public with his real identity of Bruce Wayne - Not done, and could be very very cool if done well
That feels too much like the outcome from Civil War - it lacks originality at this point.
the-wolf
03-13-2008, 03:27 PM
That feels too much like the outcome from Civil War - it lacks originality at this point.
I agree. And my other problem with this idea is that it completely destroys the "mythical" aspects of Batman. He's supposed to be an urban legend of sorts and if the bad guys discover he's actually this rich playboy guy it kinda kills the mystique, ya know?
It can work for a neighbourhood enforcer type character like Daredevil or for a lot of guys with powers (like Spider-man), but Batman is supposed to have this almost supernatural quality about him.
On top of that, how do you take it back? Re-establish his secret identity? Which we all know would eventually happen. Magic, like in Marvel? It just seems implausible.
Besides, IMO anyways, the last thing the Batman titles need is more gimmickery; ie. Jason Todd rising from the grave and Batman having a son.
The best template they could use right now is to look at the first 150 issues of LOTDK and just tell good stories. And not invent yet another "event." I hate event inventing.
mohammedali
03-15-2008, 04:58 PM
I agree. And my other problem with this idea is that it completely destroys the "mythical" aspects of Batman. He's supposed to be an urban legend of sorts and if the bad guys discover he's actually this rich playboy guy it kinda kills the mystique, ya know?
But put it in context. Just as Morrison was saying, you have to consider where Bruce is at this point in life. The Batman is less likely to have as much of a 'mythical' aspect given his involvement in the Justice League, and the sheer fact he's been around for so long. You're describing a very young Batman. When is the last time you saw Bruce acting like a rich playboy? Bruce Wayne has come to near enough not exist, and Batman has lost his mystic nature. Now's a good time for Bruce to take back his life.
It can work for a neighbourhood enforcer type character like Daredevil or for a lot of guys with powers (like Spider-man), but Batman is supposed to have this almost supernatural quality about him.
Again, that's a redundant concept now. Batman isn't so supernatural anymore. Instead, he's becoming a one dimentional character that's lost his real identity.
On top of that, how do you take it back? Re-establish his secret identity? Which we all know would eventually happen. Magic, like in Marvel? It just seems implausible.
Simple. There's a reason why we're having 52 Earths. I expect there to be an old school Earth for those that want the reassurance of a storyline that never really changes, and another Earth that they can do more interesting things with.
Besides, IMO anyways, the last thing the Batman titles need is more gimmickery; ie. Jason Todd rising from the grave and Batman having a son.
True. He doesn't need gimmickery, which is why they need to reconceptulise the character. If they leave it to the status quo, we won't get anything new or interesting ever. If you look at the front page of the Batman board right now, you'll find a thread entitled "Batman Creativity Dead?". Coincidence? Probably not, as it's not far off the truth.
To be clear, I don't propogate change for change's sake, but instead, something that will support the storyline for the better rather than a few arcs.
The best template they could use right now is to look at the first 150 issues of LOTDK and just tell good stories. And not invent yet another "event." I hate event inventing.
If you hate inventing, then reread some old TPBs. If there's no inventing, then you're not writing something new. I agree we should avoid gimmicks, but inventing is not only what comics should have... but also what they need to be great.
the-wolf
03-15-2008, 08:06 PM
1) Of course I saw that thread. I started it.
2) You make good points, but Batman's primary MO is still fear. Reveal the Man and you lose the Bat. Not to mention the massive shockwaves it would send through his companies, employees and the stock market. So either Bruce adopts a new crime-fighting identity or retires.
3) 52 Earths or not, OMD and BND proved that when it comes down to it there's really only one "true" version of a character. If Ultimate and Adventures didn't cut it for Marvel don't expect DC to be any different.
4) I don't hate all inventing. Only "event" inventing. Just tell good stories. I don't need anymore earthquakes, pestilences, floods or falls of civlization. Besides, how much crap on that scale can happen in one city? I know it's a comic book, but my point is it's been done.
LOTDK showed it's possible to have an on-going where you can just tell a great story featuring Bruce and/or Batman without having to resort to titanic multi-arc, 40 issue, 8 TPBs-worth of "nothing will ever be the same, all-new direction, forget what you know" crapola.
Libaax
03-15-2008, 08:24 PM
Revealing the man behind the costume ruined Spiderman totaly for me.
If would suck beyond word if they ruined Batman the same way.....
Batman is the myth,the legend, the symbol. You cant destroy everything he has build as those thing by revealing he is a dim playboy who enjoys nothing but the fast life. Thats not the real Bruce Wayne but the playboy he created as a hiding place.
Choppa
03-17-2008, 08:15 AM
But put it in context. Just as Morrison was saying, you have to consider where Bruce is at this point in life. The Batman is less likely to have as much of a 'mythical' aspect given his involvement in the Justice League, and the sheer fact he's been around for so long. You're describing a very young Batman. When is the last time you saw Bruce acting like a rich playboy? Bruce Wayne has come to near enough not exist, and Batman has lost his mystic nature. Now's a good time for Bruce to take back his life.
That's just because different writers write him different ways. The ones taht actually pay attention write him as an urban legend, while the others who just want to do their own thing write him any way they want. A good example is the way Loeb mentions that the audience in the opera where Batman is fighting Harley Quinn thinks it's part of the show, while in Morrison's run, nothing is said about his appearance in the art gallery fighting the ninja-manbats.
vitorocks1
03-18-2008, 04:14 PM
Hey guys, have you seen or read June's Robin issue description....????
Also what do you guys think about......Bruce Wayne falling in love with the girl he has been dating.....I think her name is Jezebel.....what if he reveals his identity to her, Batman RIP, the her getting killed. Sorta like his parents did, then him reverting back to the original dark and gloomy Batman. Also I still tink ol'Brucey is gonna get it in Final Crisis.
flapjaxx
03-20-2008, 05:47 PM
Hey guys, have you seen or read June's Robin issue description....????
Yeah, I have. We should keep in mind that "Robin's future as Batman" might be just that, a potential future the seed of which has always been there from the beginning. And Robin #175 might just be a special issue that spotlights Tim THINKING about that. (I mean, if you were in Robin's position, you'd have to be stupid not to have thought about the distant future and how you might somehow take over the role.) Whatever happens, I'm sure that after Final Crisis Bruce is going to be Batman again anyway. So I don't really see the point, if that's the direction they're really taking this.
While I really do like all the possible futures Morrison is implying by the very title "Batman RIP"... frankly, from my own point of view I don't really care about any Crisis stuff. I'm only interested in Morrison's current story arc. Yeah, that will tie into this Final Crisis thing eventually, but I won't care about that just like I didn't care for the recent Ra's crossover.
I don't really see the point of speculating about who might "die" (for six months, tops) or who might wear the costume (for six months, tops). Like Morrison said, "death" would really be the "least" of what is happening. The point of all of this is the psychology of Bruce Wayne, the reasons he does what he's done and the effects his life has had on him. Watching that story unfold is a hundred times more rewarding. Though gimmicks like new Batmen, new Batmobiles, "deaths" and resurrections along the way will all help DC sell comics. While they might play into Morrison's story to heighten the emotion or add to the excitement (from a marketing standpoint I can almost imagine Didio asking Morisson if he could write them in "as long as you're f#!$g with things anyway"), they really leave me unphased because we know they won't stick. They basically CAN'T stick do to mandates from above. Even a possible public revelation that Bruce is Batman probably wouldn't stick--though that idea is MUCH more interesting to me because they've never really done it (at least not in "continuity"), and it'd be insightful to see how the rest of Gothan reacted.
But if they actually cancel the Robin series (implying that there is no more Robin, if he's "graduated"), then I might be interested in knowing that.
well, i hope not. Batman aka Bruce Wayne is my favorite DC Character and killing him would be horrible for me. I'm also not sure if they would do it with the new Batman movie coming up. They can kill Wonder Woman and replace her, wouldn't be the first time afaik.
Yes, exactly! Please kill Wonder Woman off. She is not needed in the DC Universe! Honestly!
mohammedali
03-24-2008, 07:48 AM
2) You make good points, but Batman's primary MO is still fear. Reveal the Man and you lose the Bat. Not to mention the massive shockwaves it would send through his companies, employees and the stock market. So either Bruce adopts a new crime-fighting identity or retires.
Or he has no choice as someone exposes him.
That's just because different writers write him different ways. The ones taht actually pay attention write him as an urban legend, while the others who just want to do their own thing write him any way they want. A good example is the way Loeb mentions that the audience in the opera where Batman is fighting Harley Quinn thinks it's part of the show, while in Morrison's run, nothing is said about his appearance in the art gallery fighting the ninja-manbats.
But the idea of the Batman still being an urban legends is truely rediculous now. He's on the bloody Justice League, and everyone's seen him. It just doesn't make sense to write him like that.
Captain Jim
03-24-2008, 08:12 AM
The whole urban legends thing was officially done away with in War Games.
Bat-Reader
03-24-2008, 08:36 AM
Batman should leave JLA. Only involve with the team as intel sport. Other wise it just dameges the credibility and cool aspecet of Batman.
Choppa
03-24-2008, 12:30 PM
Or he has no choice as someone exposes him.
But the idea of the Batman still being an urban legends is truely rediculous now. He's on the bloody Justice League, and everyone's seen him. It just doesn't make sense to write him like that.
Batman should leave JLA. Only involve with the team as intel sport. Other wise it just dameges the credibility and cool aspecet of Batman.
So what if he's on the league? Of all the leaps in logic that must be taken, I would think that this is the least of concerns. I mean how on Earth is he able to even do all of the stuff he does andi do the JLA stuff in the first place? No one questions that, it's just the nature of comics. I don't see why he can't be in the league and be a myth in his own book. It's not like his book has much of a tie to the JL book anyway.
Bat-Reader
03-25-2008, 07:38 AM
So what if he's on the league? Of all the leaps in logic that must be taken, I would think that this is the least of concerns. I mean how on Earth is he able to even do all of the stuff he does andi do the JLA stuff in the first place? No one questions that, it's just the nature of comics. I don't see why he can't be in the league and be a myth in his own book. It's not like his book has much of a tie to the JL book anyway.
What other logical gap ? if you don't buy into Batman how can you buy into any other hero comic ? Batman is the most resonable of them all. He learned the things he does in 10 years of training around the world with a trajick and powerfull motivation. This's the most logical of them all hero comics to buy in to. And yes i say JLA damages Batman, they make Batman more... talkative friendly...and less dark so he can work with the others... This's so anoying time to time. But I like the chamestry between Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman too if they write it well and if the team up of big three happens rearlly... they are together all the time is just annoying. Batman's mission is protecting Gotham. Not going in to space with JLA.... which Batman fan want Batman in space for god sake, or fighting giant mosters... it's just ridiculus... hmm.. and it goes on like this. My point is He shouldn't hang out with JLA too much.
Choppa
03-25-2008, 03:29 PM
What other logical gap ? if you don't buy into Batman how can you buy into any other hero comic ? Batman is the most resonable of them all. He learned the things he does in 10 years of training around the world with a trajick and powerfull motivation. This's the most logical of them all hero comics to buy in to. And yes i say JLA damages Batman, they make Batman more... talkative friendly...and less dark so he can work with the others... This's so anoying time to time. But I like the chamestry between Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman too if they write it well and if the team up of big three happens rearlly... they are together all the time is just annoying. Batman's mission is protecting Gotham. Not going in to space with JLA.... which Batman fan want Batman in space for god sake, or fighting giant mosters... it's just ridiculus... hmm.. and it goes on like this. My point is He shouldn't hang out with JLA too much.
That's all well and good, and obviously a lot of people feel that way, but from a marketing stand point it only makes sense to have Batman on the team. It may not be logical, but that sell books. Just ignore it like other people do, like I said, the books barely ever cross over anyway.
TheAmazingSpidey
03-26-2008, 08:08 PM
If they replace Bruce Wayne with Jason Todd, I am going to be very, very upset.
So will I. That would just be--no. No, that'd be very, very bad.
brb2323
03-27-2008, 08:33 PM
But costumes are completely reversable... :confused:
I agree. A big irreversable change would not be a costume change. You can easily change a costume back to what it was. Its hopefully something totally unexpected but not death. I'm excited about it and trust that Morrison will make it interesting. I think his run has been very cool so far with the Batman title.
Earl of the RCs
03-27-2008, 09:31 PM
I just got off the psychic hotline with the Big G, and what's gona happen is that Bruce will die, but not before downloading his mind into the Batcomputer, which barbara Gordon will maintain, so that Bruce can live on. Meanwhile Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Jean Paul Valley, Casandra Caine and Tim Drake are gona each drive/pilot a different Bat-machine (the mobile, the cycle, the 'copter, the sub and the rocket maybe) which will be overhauled so that they can combine into a gygantic Bat-robot to fight the monsters (Joker, Two Face, Scarecrow etc, grown to giant size via the magic of a Bat-mite gone evil) that threaten Gotham City. True Fact, spoilers be darned.
TMM Writes Lego
03-28-2008, 03:24 PM
:confused: well, i hope not. Batman aka Bruce Wayne is my favorite DC Character and killing him would be horrible for me. I'm also not sure if they would do it with the new Batman movie coming up. They can kill Wonder Woman and replace her, wouldn't be the first time afaik.
yeah, that would be okay. But does it have to be a hero or could it be a villian? :confused: Another one to kill off would be Tim Drake (Robin III) or wait did he die in one comic (I am not confussing him with Jason Todd (Robin II)
This is a realy fun topic
TMM Writes Lego
03-28-2008, 03:29 PM
Ever since I saw the "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Final Crisis teaser I have been racking my brain thinking, "Which hero would DC kill off?". DC has promised us a big death for a while now, and I don't how anyone else feels but, I don't feel we got it. It was rumoured that Nightwing, the first Robin, was supposed to get it at the end of Infinte Crisis but DC either chickened out or because of the whole Superboy(yes I said it Superboy, there it is again, he will always be Superboy...man I miss him**sniff**) fiasco changed the ending to solve that issue, but you know .....killing off a clone isn't really a big death for obvious reasons. Impulse/Flash's death....he was a Flash for what a week....nope sorry not a big death in my book, besides technically he wasn't even born yet. Death of the New Gods, a whole seperate story. What is my point I guess, well I want the big death that we were promised and if I am right, I bet it is Bruce Wayne, the Batman. We got Morrison on both Batman and Final Crisis, and we all know Morrison is not afraid of killing big heroes. Batman R.I.P. storyline coming out soon. Remember the first Countdown teaser, Superman crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over. Comics like Batman, Justice League of America, Teen Titans, and even Flash have hinted at the demise of Bruce or at least a different Batman. Of course to replace Bruce Wayne you would need one who has gone through similar pain and turmoil as he has, one who is just as crazy. How about someone that has gone through even more than ol' Bruce, imagine Dick Grayson watching Bruce Wayne die right before his eyes by...example the Joker, that would put Nightwing through 2 times the amount of parent deaths, plus not to mention all of the repressed issues that boy has from all of his superheroings since he was a teenager. Nightwing could very well surpass Bruce as a darker Batman. And you know with Damien and Jason Todd in the picture....well there are way to many bat-boys running around that they could stand to lose someone in their circle. They just brought in Damien(The new Robin?), brought back Jason(the new Nightwing?), chickened out on killing Dick(the new Batman?) and Tim....well poor Tim has a lot of issues that I would not be surprised if he became a villain himself. It fits so well that the only comic book that would be affected would be the Nightwing series which would probably be replaced by the Red Robin series, which we all know is eventually going to be released. Anyways how else are they really gonna make Batman a "Legend" that will "Live Forever".
Bruce Wayne cant die!!!! He is like the 2nd most main character in DC next to Supes. I wish I could bet that Bruce doesnt die on cash. lol. He honestly cant die, I think books are even now being writen with stories on the Dark Knight, new ones, and he has two new movies coming out. :eek: :cool: BRUCE WILL not die!!!!!
GodzIllinois
03-28-2008, 03:42 PM
If they replace Bruce Wayne with Jason Todd, I am going to be very, very upset.
So will I. That would just be--no. No, that'd be very, very bad.
If they do that I'll never buy another Batman comic again and I'd probably have to beat up everybody I knew named Jason or Todd. Just sayin...
TMM Writes Lego
03-28-2008, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Jim
If they do that I'll never buy another Batman comic again and I'd probably have to beat up everybody I knew named Jason or Todd. Just sayin...
Yeah, but they might do something like Knightfall agian where Jason fills in. He is darker than Batman just like Jean-- wait is it possible for Azreal to die?!!!!
Ugh, the stupidity surrounding this stuff knows no bounds. Death doesnt have to mean literal, nor does it ever mean permanent. Just enjoy the ******* title.
I just got off the psychic hotline with the Big G, and what's gona happen is that Bruce will die, but not before downloading his mind into the Batcomputer, which barbara Gordon will maintain, so that Bruce can live on. Meanwhile Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Jean Paul Valley, Casandra Caine and Tim Drake are gona each drive/pilot a different Bat-machine (the mobile, the cycle, the 'copter, the sub and the rocket maybe) which will be overhauled so that they can combine into a gygantic Bat-robot to fight the monsters (Joker, Two Face, Scarecrow etc, grown to giant size via the magic of a Bat-mite gone evil) that threaten Gotham City. True Fact, spoilers be darned.
It's Grant Morrison, in this instance even sarcasm will always look very serious.
boshobosho
03-29-2008, 04:01 AM
They've hinted "who will be Batman" and it's called R.I.P. so it's simple to conclude they will bump Bruce off. But maybe a new Batman means Bruce steps down. Maybe he finally crosses the line and kills the Joker or something of that nature.
carabas
03-29-2008, 06:41 AM
Has anybody in this thread considered that there are multiple Batmen running around in Morrison's Batman, and that if a Batman were to die, it wouldn't really need to be Bruce Wayne?
Paul Dee
03-29-2008, 07:22 AM
I think Bruce will have some sort of breakdown following the 3 Batmen/Doctor Hurt/Black Glove stuff and either reveal his secret identity or give up being Batman. Or very possibly both.
TMM Writes Lego
03-29-2008, 11:17 AM
Perhaps Batman will die, but come back as a zombie:)
I think it could mean that Bruce will step down as Batman and there won't actually be a Batman, however, there may be a new "hero"?
Time will tell. I really dont think Bruce will die. Where did this topic of DC killing somebody off come from anyways:confused:
Revealing Bruce's identity would make a retcon harder so i doubt it will be that.
Killing him is the same....i mean what with the release of the Dark Knight movie soon it wouldn't be smart to off him now.
frostedone
03-30-2008, 11:38 PM
This is my first post!
If they kill Batman, they are also killing off the Joker too. Batman is the main reason why the Joker does what he he does. He views life as a game and the only two real, or at least the only two people that matter, are him and Batman. Without Batman the Joker ceases to be.
Let's look at Emperor Joker. Joker had the power of a god, but could not erase Batman from existence. This means that he is so tied to Batman, that even as a god, he cannot defeat that mortal.
Also The Dark Knight Returns had the Joker become comatose when Batman quit, and then be re-energized when Batman returned.
Also there was a couple of stories (I think) where Batman was thought to be dead, and the Joker gave up crime.
Anyone agree? Disagree?
Captain Jim
03-31-2008, 08:13 PM
Welcome to CBR, frostedone. :)
The Batman
03-31-2008, 08:18 PM
Newsarama's got an interview with Dan Didio about "Batman: R.I.P." up. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151988)
Captain Jim
03-31-2008, 08:28 PM
Yeah, and it has virtually no information at all. :(
Cornelius Stirk
04-01-2008, 12:17 AM
They won't kill him, not with the movie out this year-unless they're going for the get as much publicity any way they can method. I'm thinking it's a metaphorical title, or not standing for what we think.
I hope it's Hugo Strange behind the whole reactivating the Batmen stuff, it'd just make sense.
He's got the knowledge to know how this kind of psychological experimenting'd work, has a weird thing about wanting to be Bruce, and Morrison's dropped hints about a villain from the very beginning being behind it in interviews.
Hugo was almost right at the beginning.
Immortal
04-01-2008, 07:25 PM
If it's something irreversible.
I think Batman is going to actually kill someone. In my opinion that would be huge (and irreversible). It's bigger than him dieing because through out the Batman continuity there have been a lot of "I can't cross that line" situations. Also, Batman's whole story is about him not killing people, hence not using guns.
TradePaperbackTraitor
04-01-2008, 07:44 PM
I think Bruce will have some sort of breakdown following the 3 Batmen/Doctor Hurt/Black Glove stuff and either reveal his secret identity or give up being Batman. Or very possibly both.
That's what I guess as well, especially after reading the summaries in Previews Magazine. Something drastic is going to happen to Bruce Wayne or Batman's psyche. I don't think they'll kill him.
Crimson
04-02-2008, 04:00 AM
Revealing Bruce's identity would make a retcon harder so i doubt it will be that.
Killing him is the same....i mean what with the release of the Dark Knight movie soon it wouldn't be smart to off him now.
The films don't tend to lead to any sort major of increase in sales... having a huge storyline in the comics at the same time at the films could be a way of convincing people "Hey, if you liked that you need to read this!".
Marvel and DC have both tried doing the status quo when films come out and it doesn't really lead to anything.
Choppa
04-02-2008, 01:41 PM
Marvel and DC have both tried doing the status quo when films come out and it doesn't really lead to anything.
It lead to Marvel's Ultimate line :D
Anyway, nothing Morrison does is irreversible. Batman killed back in the day and that retconned right?
artist2b
04-02-2008, 02:59 PM
My god! Have you ever heard of paragraphs!?!
And the big "irreversable" change is probably the "new" costume.
Batman's getting a new costume? I can't think of anybody who hasn't kicked the bucket yet other than Batman, Wonder Woman, The Atom, and Plastic Man. I agree that most likely isn't Batman because he's got a movie coming up, and he just doesn't seem like he'd be the one to go.
artist2b
04-02-2008, 03:00 PM
My god! Have you ever heard of paragraphs!?!
And the big "irreversable" change is probably the "new" costume.
I hate to say it but it does make sense that Wonder Woman would be the one. Either her or The Flash. If Batman goes they might lose some readers, including me.
artist2b
04-02-2008, 03:25 PM
Actually I can't imagine them even killing off Wonder Woman. Maybe it's Nightwing or Martian Manhunter, or Green Arrow. Somebody like that. Course there's also the possibility someone mentioned, which is that it's not meant to be literal. It could be that one hero will retire their superhero identity, thus not being a superhero anymore.
Choppa
04-02-2008, 03:33 PM
I hate to say it but it does make sense that Wonder Woman would be the one. Either her or The Flash. If Batman goes they might lose some readers, including me.
Morrison said it in an interview. I speculated that it might be the one from the "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" arc since he was involved in that, is currently writing Batman, and it appears in the Final Crisis teaser picture which is also written by him.
frostedone
04-02-2008, 03:40 PM
I really hope it is not Nightwing! He has gone threw enough...People in his apartment died because they were near him, Blockbuster died because he didn't bother to try to save him, so that damaged his psyc, Tarantula raped him, he tried to kill himself for months, then Deathstroke unleashed Chemo on Bludhaven...give him a break DC!
As for the person dieing, I do not think it will be Superman or Wonderwoman.
Let's face it, Superman's death has been done before, no one will take it seriously, and WW is like the most popular female hero, plus she has never been out of print in like 60 years! As for the Flash, several Flashes hav died, all have came back. I think. Correct me if I am wrong.
If anyone dies I hope it is either Hawkman, and the he doesn't get re-incarnated, or Aquaman, because I really dislike Aquaman.
Iron_Stark
04-03-2008, 03:43 PM
They're not killing off Batman. Just like they killed Cap before Iron Man and are bringing back the Green Banner Hulk in June, DC's not dumb enough to kill off Bruce in time for the Dark Knight.
mike626
04-03-2008, 04:47 PM
Ever since I saw the "Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever." Final Crisis teaser I have been racking my brain thinking, "Which hero would DC kill off?". DC has promised us a big death for a while now, and I don't how anyone else feels but, I don't feel we got it. It was rumoured that Nightwing, the first Robin, was supposed to get it at the end of Infinte Crisis but DC either chickened out or because of the whole Superboy(yes I said it Superboy, there it is again, he will always be Superboy...man I miss him**sniff**) fiasco changed the ending to solve that issue, but you know .....killing off a clone isn't really a big death for obvious reasons. Impulse/Flash's death....he was a Flash for what a week....nope sorry not a big death in my book, besides technically he wasn't even born yet. Death of the New Gods, a whole seperate story. What is my point I guess, well I want the big death that we were promised and if I am right, I bet it is Bruce Wayne, the Batman. We got Morrison on both Batman and Final Crisis, and we all know Morrison is not afraid of killing big heroes. Batman R.I.P. storyline coming out soon. Remember the first Countdown teaser, Superman crying on Wonder Woman's shoulder, who else would he cry like that over. Comics like Batman, Justice League of America, Teen Titans, and even Flash have hinted at the demise of Bruce or at least a different Batman. Of course to replace Bruce Wayne you would need one who has gone through similar pain and turmoil as he has, one who is just as crazy. How about someone that has gone through even more than ol' Bruce, imagine Dick Grayson watching Bruce Wayne die right before his eyes by...example the Joker, that would put Nightwing through 2 times the amount of parent deaths, plus not to mention all of the repressed issues that boy has from all of his superheroings since he was a teenager. Nightwing could very well surpass Bruce as a darker Batman. And you know with Damien and Jason Todd in the picture....well there are way to many bat-boys running around that they could stand to lose someone in their circle. They just brought in Damien(The new Robin?), brought back Jason(the new Nightwing?), chickened out on killing Dick(the new Batman?) and Tim....well poor Tim has a lot of issues that I would not be surprised if he became a villain himself. It fits so well that the only comic book that would be affected would be the Nightwing series which would probably be replaced by the Red Robin series, which we all know is eventually going to be released. Anyways how else are they really gonna make Batman a "Legend" that will "Live Forever".Hate to burst your bubble but,do you really think DC wolud kill off Bruce this close to a new Batman movie opening? Oh,a Batman is gonna die but,not the one you are thinking about.If Morisson does indeed pull of a bait and switch on comicfandom I will be amazed!:D
TheAmazingSpidey
04-03-2008, 05:01 PM
This story should prove interesting.
I'll laugh if Bruce suddenly springs his eyes open, dons a trenchoat, and tells us he's never gonna give us up.
vitorocks1
04-04-2008, 12:28 PM
Hate to burst your bubble but,do you really think DC wolud kill off Bruce this close to a new Batman movie opening? Oh,a Batman is gonna die but,not the one you are thinking about.If Morisson does indeed pull of a bait and switch on comicfandom I will be amazed!:D
As I have said before, by the time Final Crisis ends, by the time Bruce Wayne/Batman dies, The Dark Knight movie will probably be on DVD...he is only human and humans die eventually. But for your sake I hope I am wrong.
tominerules
04-06-2008, 02:46 PM
this makes no sense? I don't understand this. He's integral to the comic series. Just because you guys think he's kind of a tool, he should still be alive.
Peace.
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TeamED209
04-07-2008, 07:55 AM
I don't think Bruce will die, one because i don't think DC has the guts to pull that off. Plus it would seem to close to the death of Captain America over at marvel. I think the other side of the coin would be for Bruce Wayne to give up being Batman to get married and try to live a normal life while Dick Grayson takes over as Batman. Then Dick after about a year of stories would die, forcing Bruce Wayne to take back the mantle of BATMAN and bring Dicks killer to justice. You kill two birds with one stone and still get Bruce alive so you don't have to go through some lame resurection story that quite frankly we have seen a billion times. Also the way to solve the Batman being married thing is that the guy who kills Dick also kills Bruce Wayne's Wife. neat little package.
And if they had to make the killer jason todd that would be the ultimate batman story to start with final crisis to me!
Alexx1
04-07-2008, 08:05 AM
So what's going on with the art for RIP? Between Alex Ross and Tony Daniel whose doing what? Will Jonathan Glapion still be inking? And any idea how long this RIP arc will be? I'm a little confused.
Paul Dee
04-12-2008, 04:48 PM
According to his blog, Tony Daniel has been busy 'redesigning' Batman, which might add to speculation regarding the upcoming RIP storyline.
http://tonydaniel.blogspot.com/
mosdef
04-14-2008, 07:13 PM
Is this story staying strictly in Morrison's Batman book, or are they telling this through all the Bat books like they did for the Ra's Al Ghul story?
Captain Jim
04-14-2008, 09:14 PM
Is this story staying strictly in Morrison's Batman book, or are they telling this through all the Bat books like they did for the Ra's Al Ghul story?
Well, neither exactly. The actual storyline (parts 1, 2, 3, etc.) will all be in Batman, but the Batman: RIP theme will also be reflected in various other titles as well, such as Detective and Robin.
Paul Dee
04-15-2008, 10:23 AM
As I have said before, by the time Final Crisis ends, by the time Bruce Wayne/Batman dies, The Dark Knight movie will probably be on DVD...he is only human and humans die eventually. But for your sake I hope I am wrong.
Then if DC want his death to have any impact, choosing then to do a 52 issue long story called Trinity starring Batman might not have been a great idea.
frostedone
04-15-2008, 04:31 PM
Batman cannot die in Batman RIP. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't RIP take place before Final Crisis? Isn't Batman supposed to be in Final Crisis too? If so then he should be physically safe at the end of RIP, maybe not emotionally though.
According to his blog, Tony Daniel has been busy 'redesigning' Batman, which might add to speculation regarding the upcoming RIP storyline.
http://tonydaniel.blogspot.com/
And at the same time. there's a new Bat-Suit in "The Dark Knight". How convieniant.
So R.I.P may just as well turn out to be Bruce having a fashion crisis and he's gone shopaholic crazy.
HaroldAllnut
04-15-2008, 04:58 PM
Batman cannot die in Batman RIP. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't RIP take place before Final Crisis? Isn't Batman supposed to be in Final Crisis too? If so then he should be physically safe at the end of RIP, maybe not emotionally though.
Y'know, for a hero who was supposed to come back all nice and squeaky clean (in an emotional sense) from 52, Bruce sure is having a good deal of problems in Grant Morrison's current run on Batman.
carabas
04-15-2008, 07:09 PM
Well, it is pretty all stuff from years ago that's popped up again. And Batman is certainly not behaving in a Bat-dickery manner.
Captain Jim
04-15-2008, 07:58 PM
Then if DC want his death to have any impact, choosing then to do a 52 issue long story called Trinity starring Batman might not have been a great idea.
But, as I understand it, Trinity doesn't interact with any other titles, but rather takes place in it's own timeframe.
Captain Jim
04-15-2008, 08:00 PM
Batman cannot die in Batman RIP. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't RIP take place before Final Crisis? Isn't Batman supposed to be in Final Crisis too? If so then he should be physically safe at the end of RIP, maybe not emotionally though.
According to recent solicitations, Batman seems to be missing in Final Crisis, which seems to be what's happening in RIP as well. (Seems to me they should have called it Batman: MIA.)
The Batman
04-15-2008, 09:38 PM
In Morrison's Final Crisis interview he says that Batman won't make it out of Final Crisis the way we know him and that following "Batman: RIP" we'll get something of a "The Last Batman Story."
Could we be heading towards a Batman revamp on par with 1986's Man of Steel?
the-wolf
04-16-2008, 04:43 PM
Could we be heading towards a Batman revamp on par with 1986's Man of Steel?
I sure hope so.
MattXG
04-16-2008, 08:38 PM
But, as I understand it, Trinity doesn't interact with any other titles, but rather takes place in it's own timeframe.
I'm glad someone else got this feeling.
They can knock off Bruce Wayne as Batman and still do Trinity with Bruce Wayne as batman....it just wouldn't be running concurrent with the DCU today...
joemagnum611
04-16-2008, 08:48 PM
Sopposedly Batman isn't the one that dies in FC it the Martian Manhunter.
Captain Jim
04-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Even if he doesn't die, it looks like he will disappear for a time.
sabongero
04-30-2008, 05:56 PM
Basically Morrison is just having an arc that's going to set up the DCU having a post-Bruce Wayne Batman. Okay okay. Kind of like Moench, Dixon, etc did back in the 90s right. Another guy assumes the role of Batman. And Bruce Wayne is a civilian in the books. No problem.
The new Batman still gets to say, "I'm Batman" right ?
Paul Dee
04-30-2008, 06:28 PM
But, as I understand it, Trinity doesn't interact with any other titles, but rather takes place in it's own timeframe.
Ah yes, of course. I'm jumping ahead and assuming that the next weekly series has some sort of continuity-based gimmick whereas it actually seems like Trinity is just a straightforward weekly series
spiceyweasel
05-03-2008, 06:41 AM
It's a sad state of affairs when people openly root for the death of an icon like Batman
or any other hero for that matter. Personally, I blame Todd McFarlane and his ilk for these unsettling developments in the history of comics. He's obviously got issues and it's bled all over the industry from Image to Marvel to DC and beyond. But, then again, Batman has been around since the late 30's. You guess they could have just let him get old, retire (like in Batman Beyond) and die of old age with a bit of dignity.
With all the weird stuff they've been doing with comics these days.....clones, time travel, alternate realities.....zombies, etc., they can kill off major characters on a whim because they have so many ways to bring them back if they do.
davechisholm
05-03-2008, 12:08 PM
It's a sad state of affairs when people openly root for the death of an icon like Batman
or any other hero for that matter. Personally, I blame Todd McFarlane and his ilk for these unsettling developments in the history of comics. He's obviously got issues and it's bled all over the industry from Image to Marvel to DC and beyond. But, then again, Batman has been around since the late 30's. You guess they could have just let him get old, retire (like in Batman Beyond) and die of old age with a bit of dignity.
With all the weird stuff they've been doing with comics these days.....clones, time travel, alternate realities.....zombies, etc., they can kill off major characters on a whim because they have so many ways to bring them back if they do.
i don't think anybody's necessarily 'rooting' for the death of an icon.
we are rooting for good, new, fresh, entertaining stories that hopefully expand the medium, with cool art. if that means something like this happening, so be it.
the same-old same-old just isn't cutting it for a lot of comic-dom right now.
boywond3r
05-03-2008, 08:42 PM
Mentioned in the very first post:
I do not want a darker Batman. I'm so, so tired of this dark era - it's become so dreary that it seems completely over-the-top and that the horse has been beaten to death ten times over.
It stops becoming interesting when the character becomes a caricature.
So PLEASE, the 90s are over - NO MORE DARK batman!
Bat-Reader
05-04-2008, 04:39 AM
I really liked The preaview in DCU 0. The dark Batman is my kind of Batman. He will be dark again like he was before the infinite crisis bullcrap or i won't be around the read tinky winky happy batman.
nepenthes
05-04-2008, 06:23 AM
It's a sad state of affairs when people openly root for the death of an icon like Batman
or any other hero for that matter. Personally, I blame Todd McFarlane and his ilk for these unsettling developments in the history of comics. He's obviously got issues and it's bled all over the industry from Image to Marvel to DC and beyond. But, then again, Batman has been around since the late 30's. You guess they could have just let him get old, retire (like in Batman Beyond) and die of old age with a bit of dignity.
With all the weird stuff they've been doing with comics these days.....clones, time travel, alternate realities.....zombies, etc., they can kill off major characters on a whim because they have so many ways to bring them back if they do.
this has to be the most bewildering post I've ever read here
Libaax
05-04-2008, 08:34 AM
This RIP, The Last Batman Story and Post Bruce Wayne Batman all this sounds like a cheap gimmick to me.
Just write good Batman stories without having to "kill" something of him or trying a big change when it will get retconned in like a year.
All this crap i hope ends soon so i can read Batman again post Gm....
enkithoth
05-04-2008, 10:42 AM
Basically Morrison is just having an arc that's going to set up the DCU having a post-Bruce Wayne Batman. Okay okay. Kind of like Moench, Dixon, etc did back in the 90s right. Another guy assumes the role of Batman. And Bruce Wayne is a civilian in the books. No problem.
The new Batman still gets to say, "I'm Batman" right ?
I think I may have ruined something for myself reading the new Previews, because I think I saw that Tim Drake will be taking over the Batman role. Weird choice but I can't think of any other established character that would fit.
Mr.50
05-04-2008, 10:53 AM
I think I may have ruined something for myself reading the new Previews, because I think I saw that Tim Drake will be taking over the Batman role. Weird choice but I can't think of any other established character that would fit.
The real thing tat is weird about that is wouldn't anyone who saw Batman know it wasn't the same guy and also think, "Wow Batman is kind of small????"
Its really weird I think
COMIC GEEK
05-04-2008, 11:05 AM
I have a feeling it might be the martian manhunter
Captain Jim
05-04-2008, 02:42 PM
I'll be glad when we finally find out what this is all about, so we can stop all the speculation.
flapjaxx
05-04-2008, 03:37 PM
I'll be glad when we finally find out what this is all about, so we can stop all the speculation.
Seriously, yes. And some aspects of this aren't being kept secret (re: Morrison insisting that this isn't "just" a simple death, and the preview synopses of Robin), so the "what" and "who" aren't nearly as important as the "how" and "why".
Unfortunately a lot of people are just going to react to the reveals, as soon as they know what happens, and make an instant judgment call about the worth of the entire storyline... when the storyline should be judged on its own merits.
Even status quo does return in a year, that's not a reason NOT to do this. Telling a good story that reveals some more psychological depth to the characters, that's the point. It's hard to call something a gimmick when it's being written by one of the best comic writers of the past twenty years, and when he's obviously done of lot of research into the history of the character.
Why not do a Batman RIP or a Last Batman Story? Jeesh, during the Silver Age they did crazy stories like this all the time. If you just want Batman vs. Villain #392 every month, there are plenty of back issues to check out.
Cornelius Stirk
05-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Mentioned in the very first post:
I do not want a darker Batman. I'm so, so tired of this dark era - it's become so dreary that it seems completely over-the-top and that the horse has been beaten to death ten times over.
It stops becoming interesting when the character becomes a caricature.
So PLEASE, the 90s are over - NO MORE DARK batman!
Yes, let's all go back to the 50's/60's Adam West style Batman. LOL.
Seriously though, I think a compromise is possible between the O'Neil/Adams Batman and the more Batd%^k style. The Batman of the late 90's No Man's Land era tales was the point where I think the editors let him go too far off the deep end, almost to the point where he became the DKR Batman. I'm all for Morrison's recallibration of the character, but not to the point where a lot of Silver Age stuff is brought back, because a lot of it was silly, good or bad.
Superboy-Prime
05-04-2008, 09:14 PM
agreedI don't want a light hearted batman,plus he's always been dark since his first appearance. I would'nt mind Oneal's Batman tho.
The Batman
05-04-2008, 09:24 PM
I think I may have ruined something for myself reading the new Previews, because I think I saw that Tim Drake will be taking over the Batman role. Weird choice but I can't think of any other established character that would fit.
It's entirely possible that he'll be taking over the role of protector of Gotham though not necessarily the role of Batman. If Alex Ross's covers are anything to go by, whomever the "new" Batman is (assuming there even is a new Batman which isn't necessarily a given) looks a little more mature.
Superboy-Prime
05-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Which covers are you taling about? All I've seen is Buce Wayne kissing a chick with the bat cowel split open.
nepenthes
05-05-2008, 01:06 AM
I'd like to see Damien Wayne to kill Tim Drake and steal the mantle, becoming the Batman we see in 666 who eventually trades his soul for Gotham City.
Cornelius Stirk
05-05-2008, 06:26 AM
Isn't he a little young? He's what 12? Unless being genetically engineered has the side-effect of growing at a hugely accelerated rate, I can't see it.
The Batman
05-05-2008, 07:14 AM
Which covers are you taling about? All I've seen is Buce Wayne kissing a chick with the bat cowel split open.
These ones:
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=9306
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/RIP/t_Batman677.jpg
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=9497
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/RIP/t_Batman678.jpg
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=9687
carabas
05-05-2008, 07:26 AM
That's most likely Bruce Wayne, and not the newish one.
The Batman
05-05-2008, 08:11 AM
Possibly. Probably. Still, I think we should expect a bit of a curveball from Morrison here and Prodigal: Redux doesn't feel like a curveball.
Choppa
05-05-2008, 08:35 AM
I'm sure the story will focus a lot more on why Bruce chooses to give up the costume and what he does instead. In Progidal we never see this, nor in 52, in which Morrison should have written the