Hellblazer: JOYRIDE

[Libaax]

Andy Diggle is fricking amazing.

I havent read Hellblazer for a long time ever since i was scared away by Mina run. I havent been able to get the single issues of 230+ in my LCS. But yesterday i finally got this trade.


I loved it. Constantine finally acted,talked like the one i have been fan of since Delano,Ennis runs. The first story about Constantine getting control back was amazing. The other story was very good too.

Unlike Mina,Carey's runs the two stories was dark,magical enough to be true Hellblazer. I loved seeing JC use his magus skills again. Being a player again,doing his "work".

What did you guys think of these stories ? Do you like Diggle's version of Hellblazer ?

Me i love it and feel for it as i did when the comic was at its best with Ennis runs. I liked The Losers but now he is a favorite now to keep track of for giving me back the love i use to have for Hellblazer :)

[brundlefly]

I thoroughly enjoyed Mike Carey's run, but Mina's run left me cold. I kept picking up Hellblazer (mostly out of habit) while she was on, but I really wasn't enjoying the book that much. I loved a lot of Diggle's prior work (The Losers, Adam Strange, Silent Dragon) but he had just ended a Batman Confidential arc that was, to be honest, not very good. So I was kind of apprehensive about his first issue of Hellblazer, since I thought he might be in a creative rut or something. I needn't have been worried; he knocked it out of the park and all of his Hellblazer issues since then have been equally excellent (with 232-233's story being my fave so far; loved seeing John be so proactive). Diggle has a really great grasp of the John Constantine character, the mix of equal parts magician and con man. He has put Hellblazer back near the top of my 'favorite monthly books' list.

[Libaax]

I enjoyed some parts of Carey runs. I didnt enjoy the bi-sexual JC. Nothing against bi or gay people but JC had 20 years history without ever him being interested in a man. That was really pointless. Which made Carey run very uneven for me. Not as stable and high quality as Ennis,Delano,Jenkins.


I didnt have any high for for Diggle's run either despite i liked The Losers. But as you say he has a good grasp of JC's character the mix of magus and con man.

Sometimes he acts like powerless con man like when the start issue 230 when he was chained and waiting for the tide to kill him. Then suddenly you saw the great magician that knows spells from memory. Thats classic Hellblazer !

I read in newsarama article he was a long time fan. Maybe that makes it easier. Mina might have sucked cause she was a crime writer who didnt have any history in comics. Its not easy then to write gothic,supernatural stories in comics medium.

Heh he has put Hellblazer at the top of my favorite list too. Told my LCS to hold for me 239+ in my pullist folder.

[brundlefly]

I enjoyed some parts of Carey runs. I didnt enjoy the bi-sexual JC. Nothing against bi or gay people but JC had 20 years history without ever him being interested in a man.

I though that was during Brian Azzarello's run.

[matthewaos]

I really enjoy the current run. I think that the "...systems..." story was maybe the best one until now.

[Sean Whitmore]

I though that was during Brian Azzarello's run.

Yeah, I don't recall any bisexual encounters during Carey's run.

And the stuff during the Azz run was all part of a long con.


SEAN

[carabas]

Yeah, I don't recall any bisexual encounters during Carey's run.Not actual encounters, but at least references in internal monologue to his bisexuality at least as far back as the Ennis run.

[Sean Whitmore]

Not actual encounters, but at least references in internal monologue to his bisexuality at least as far back as the Ennis run.

I always thought Header was unfortunately named....


SEAN

[Bellis]

Just expanding on what carabas said, Constantine actually mentions having boyfriends in #51 written by John Smith, so it didn't seem much of a big deal to me when Azzarello explored it further (admittedly not all that well).

Anyway, Diggle's run has been superb so far with In at the Deep End as you say being particularly brilliant. I think that one's an all-time classic and proof that Hellblazer does short stories absolutely beautifully, making them just as fulfilling as the longer arcs that a lot of comics seem to be doing more of these days. Naturally I've loved the return to the more assured, in control Alan Moore/early-Delano version of Constantine - the opening pages of #232 were a genuine punch the air moment. Wonderful stuff.

Vertigo's best book at the moment as far as I'm concerned. But as it's my all-time favourite comic anyway, I would say that. :D

[Sean Whitmore]

Just expanding on what carabas said, Constantine actually mentions having boyfriends in #51 written by John Smith

That was a weird issue, though. Mostly because it ended with John being completely freaked out by the presence of a ghost.


SEAN

[Bellis]

That was a weird issue, though. Mostly because it ended with John being completely freaked out by the presence of a ghost.


SEAN

I really love that issue, I definitely think it's one of the best one-off stories in the Hellblazer canon. I don't especially have a problem with John being scared of a ghost, at least not in the way that issue presented it - it kind of scared me a bit, so I suppose I didn't begrude John being scared either!

[Subotai]

Great trade. Diggle is in the upper echelon of Hellblazer writers.

[Libaax]

I though that was during Brian Azzarello's run.

It might be i have to check that out.

The problem is for me i became so obessed with the series that i read so many runs after eacother.

The ones that arent memorable like 99% Azzarello's except Hard Time,some part of Carey is easy to get mixed.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Just expanding on what carabas said, Constantine actually mentions having boyfriends in #51 written by John Smith, so it didn't seem much of a big deal to me when Azzarello explored it further (admittedly not all that well).

I'm pretty certain there's a line about 'the occasional boyfriend' in either the first issue of Hellblazer (by Delano), or even possibly when Moore wrote him in Swamp Thing.
I'd missed it as well until the Azz run was happening and someone pointed it out on this very board.

[Bellis]

I'm pretty certain there's a line about 'the occasional boyfriend' in either the first issue of Hellblazer (by Delano), or even possibly when Moore wrote him in Swamp Thing.
I'd missed it as well until the Azz run was happening and someone pointed it out on this very board.

Yeah it's that line alright, but it's definitely in Hellblazer #51. Absolutely definitely. :)

The ones that arent memorable like 99% Azzarello's except Hard Time,some part of Carey is easy to get mixed.

Another thing that I suppose could make it slightly confusing is that Marcelo Frusin who does most of the art on Azz's run follows on with Carey for over half his run. The main difference however is the return to London and greatly improved writing quality!

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Yeah it's that line alright, but it's definitely in Hellblazer #51. Absolutely definitely. :)


I'm sure it appears before that in a Delano or Moore issue, because I've never read that one.

[Bellis]

I'm sure it appears before that in a Delano or Moore issue, because I've never read that one.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8356/hellblazer51xf5.jpg

Hellblazer #51: Counting to Ten by John Smith and Sean Philips.

Without coming across as a total Hellblazer fanboy jerk (I've failed on that count already ;)), I've read every issue serveral times (like I say, it's my all time favourite comic) and it's the first time his bisexuality is ever mentioned. Really.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Huh?

I thought people knew that old conjob is bisexual?
It might not have been mentioned often, but it´s been there since the old days.

[dancj]

I have to admit I thought it went back to Delano's run, but according to this page (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gayleague.com%2Fgay%2Fcharact ers%2Fdisplay.php%3Fid%3D2&ei=u-7PR4WtIJ-m0QTdpvTiBA&usg=AFQjCNGzDgM09eVVORaymHYOAWQIuvZYUw&sig2=sJXHyg2-rRy5Lf7t44bNGQ) it was Hellblazer 51 which outed him.

And yeah - Hellblazer 51 was a good issue. It creeped me out when I first read it. John Smith has always been a bit of an erratic writer, but his stuff can be gold.

[Libaax]

I'm pretty certain there's a line about 'the occasional boyfriend' in either the first issue of Hellblazer (by Delano), or even possibly when Moore wrote him in Swamp Thing.
I'd missed it as well until the Azz run was happening and someone pointed it out on this very board.

If Delano or Smith or whoever wrote in Swamp Thing days showed JC bi thing it would be alright. The thing in Azz run was so random. Didnt fit in the story at the time.


Azz i think got JC worst of all writers so far. Not only cause JC lost his british feel.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Yeah, I can't find reference on the web to it happening before #51, but I could've sworn it did.

If Delano or Smith or whoever wrote in Swamp Thing days showed JC bi thing it would be alright. The thing in Azz run was so random. Didnt fit in the story at the time.


Azz i think got JC worst of all writers so far. Not only cause JC lost his british feel.

I think it fit the story perfectly - the whole storyline was John changing to fit the depravity he found in America.
In Good Intentions he tries to deal with it in his usual way and screws it right up.
From then on he starts changing to fit/beat the madness he is being confronted with.

[Libaax]

I thought it was a cheap trick and hope an author who gets JC so horrible wrong never touches Hellblazer again.

His hole American stories was so wrong. It was totaly the opposite of what we have come to expect from Hellblazer.

Human depravity is fine but without the gothic,supernatural feel its not HB.




More Diggle type writers who know their characters is perfect.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I thought it was a cheap trick and hope an author who gets JC so horrible wrong never touches Hellblazer again.

His hole American stories was so wrong. It was totaly the opposite of what we have come to expect from Hellblazer.

Human depravity is fine but without the gothic,supernatural feel its not HB.




More Diggle type writers who know their characters is perfect.

I didn't mind the lack of magic in Azzarello's run. I actually prefer the Hellblazer stories where it's kept to the background.
Even in Ennis' run or Ellis' where it was there, it was just understated.
Ennis' had demons and angels, but it all still played on a human scale.

I've started to read Diggle's Joyrider trade, and I'm just not that excited.
Like Carey and Mina's run it feels too hard like it's trying to be a Hellblazer story, and isn't really doing anything new or different with the character.
I prefer when they move him forward as opposed to base it around stories that have already been told.
If you want him to be a player again, just make him a player. Don't spend a couple of issues with him going back to Ravenscar to 'cure' himself. He's done that a couple of times now (even in Sandman).
And also, I've only read the first part of the storyline after that, but it didn't feel any different to any other Hellblazer story - why have him 'cure' himself and become a 'player' again if you're not going to use it to tell a different type of story?

[Libaax]

After Mina,Azz making JC cure himself and tell old school HB stories is very good. Its not old but very new after the last couple of runs.

Its the opposite of the last runs. Sandman was like almost two decades ago. After Mina,Azz runs JC really needed to get back to his roots. Stop feeling sorry for himself.

Every good HB has human condition,scale but with the supernatural. The Hunting Hill story aka Joyride is much about human condition.

Im not saying every story has to have supernatural tone but for a nun magical/supernatural story you have to be real good with JC like Ennis,Delano was.

[carabas]

Diggle, you mean. Azz was a couple of years ago.
I agree, otherwise.

And also, I've only read the first part of the storyline after that, but it didn't feel any different to any other Hellblazer story - why have him 'cure' himself and become a 'player' again if you're not going to use it to tell a different type of story?I don't see what else you would do with the character. Constantine: Space Cowboy could be fun for arc, but the character is in a way rather limited in that he doesn't really lend himself to telling stories that are set far outside of the Hellblazer template.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I don't see what else you would do with the character. Constantine: Space Cowboy could be fun for arc, but the character is in a way rather limited in that he doesn't really lend himself to telling stories that are set far outside of the Hellblazer template.

Then why tell the story of him curing himself?
If you don't want it, why write that story?
What is the difference between the John tied to the pole in Diggle's first two parter compared to that of the one in the housing estate story?
Nothing, except he got stupidly cocky.
So in other words, we got a rather dull two-parter about John curing his guilt to become a 'player' again, and the only difference was it allowed him to be more stupid.

Also, Constantine's guilt over newcastle is a defining characteristic.
It's what gives him his edge - he knows the pain, the guilt and the suffering that will affect him and others from his actions, and yet he still does it.


Im not saying every story has to have supernatural tone but for a nun magical/supernatural story you have to be real good with JC like Ennis,Delano was.

If the writer isn't that good, then why do I want to read their work?

[Libaax]

Who said Diggle wasnt that good ?

What i was saying that maybe i got mixed was that Azzarello's stories that wasnt supernatural fell flat cause he didnt get Constantine.

Diggle's first couple of pages showed you he knows exactly who Constantine is.

Like Carabas says Constantine and Hellblazer is limited to certain types of stories just like many genres are. The best writers of Hellblazer comics can do different stuff with the limitation. They have, i have read many type of stories in HB that i didnt expect to see in HB and done well too.

Its like saying Batman stories are old,limited cause its always about a guy in Bat suit trying to control his city.

I dont see why you expect anything esle from this series.

[carabas]

Then why tell the story of him curing himself?
If you don't want it, why write that story?I think you're reading too much into it. The 'curing' was little more than a soft reboot. Over the years, his various writers have don a lot of, I hate to use the word damage here, but I think it fits to constantine. In recent years, he has been a pale shadow of his former self. He still had the skills and such, but where he once wa a sharply dressed, suave, sexy con-man, he now was little more than a mystical hobo. And diggle turned back the clock a bit.

What is the difference between the John tied to the pole in Diggle's first two parter compared to that of the one in the housing estate story?Style.

Also, Constantine's guilt over newcastle is a defining characteristic.
It's what gives him his edge - he knows the pain, the guilt and the suffering that will affect him and others from his actions, and yet he still does it.I'm pretty sure he still carries a larger than average amount of guilt on his shoulders. He just no longer allows it to control him so completely.

[Hellstorm]

I dropped Hellblazer with the Mina run, and picked up Joyride based upon the gushing praise he's received since he's been on the book.

I have to admit, it seems it's well deserved.

I could elaborate on that, but I already did in our latest podcast (check the sig). :cool:

[FanboyStranger]

I have to admit I thought it went back to Delano's run, but according to this page (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gayleague.com%2Fgay%2Fcharact ers%2Fdisplay.php%3Fid%3D2&ei=u-7PR4WtIJ-m0QTdpvTiBA&usg=AFQjCNGzDgM09eVVORaymHYOAWQIuvZYUw&sig2=sJXHyg2-rRy5Lf7t44bNGQ) it was Hellblazer 51 which outed him.

And yeah - Hellblazer 51 was a good issue. It creeped me out when I first read it. John Smith has always been a bit of an erratic writer, but his stuff can be gold.

I think some of the confusion goes back to early in Delano's run when Zed meets the openly gay Ray Monde. Zed assumes that John and Ray had a sexual relationship in the past, but Ray tells her that his (meaning Ray's) heart only belonged to one man, Sargent Bill, who dies during the Falklands war.

I agree on John Smith. When he's on his game, he's a great writer, up there with Milligan and Morrison.