Catwoman post Brubaker

[Chino]

So I picked up the first few trades of Catwoman mostly because I'm a Brubaker fanboy lol. I'm really liking the book, more than I had hoped really.

So now I'm considering staying on with the book with Pfeifer, my question is about the tone of the book after Brubaker. Does it keep the darker, street level crime type feel that Brubaker brought to the book? Does the style change much with OYL?

Also, is the early Pfiefer stuff a must read? I was connsidering skiping from the end of Brubakers run to something more current. Can anyone suggest a good point to skip to where I wouldnt be lost?

Thanks.

[Mia]

I think that most of the Pfeiffer stuff has been collected in TPB.

To be frank, I am not a big fan of Brubaker. I just find him very boring and tedious to read. I really did not start to like his Catwoman until issue #17. While I would never call Pheiffer's style the same as Ed's. I would say that the rendition of Selina is pretty much the same. He writes her as an intelligent adult woman, as opposed to a sex pot, and the stories are interesting. Catwoman is and still remains one of the few adult (and I mean that in the purest sense) books on the market. I find it to be a quality read.

[Agent_Torpor]

By all means, pick up Pfeiffer's work on Catwoman. It's quality stuff.

If you're looking for TPBs, I think the one called "The Replacements" is a good starting point for Pfeiffer's run. And I think another one just came out that encompasses most of the recent run (Selina giving up her baby). By all means, read 'em. Good stuff.

[Captain Jim]

Actually, I think Pfeifer's work on Catwoman is even better than Brubaker's later work, the stuff he did with Gulacy.

[Brack360]

I have found Pfeifer's Catwoman to be readable but fairly mediocre over all and certainly not up to par with Brubaker's excellent run. It also definitely has a more "super-hero-ish" feel and less of a noirish feel than Brubaker's run. Catwoman has faced a lot more super-powered criminals as well as frequent visits by Zatanna, and most of Brubaker's supporting characters have since been written out of the book. If you like the character though, I would recommend checking out The Replacements TPB, which is actually Pfeifer's second story arc (the first is not collected in TPB). Pfeifer's run has had a few standout issues that come close to Brubaker's, such as #62 and #72. I am still buying this book more because I like the character than because I like the current direction, though it is still a decent read.

[Agent_Torpor]

Actually, I think Pfeifer's work on Catwoman is even better than Brubaker's later work, the stuff he did with Gulacy.

I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciated Bru's run, but I can't say I haven't enjoyed Pfeifer's run more over the long run. And the art? I'll take David Lopez over Darwyn Cooke any day of the week.

[Chino]

OK, sounds good.

What about suggestions for a good point to get in on the more current issues. I don't think I want to read all 70+ issues, at least not now. I had only planned to pick up Brubakers run but I like the character so I though I'd give Pfiefer a chance.

[smoothjokes]

I was a huge fan of the original run on Catwoman with Brubaker, Cooke & Allred. It was a great choice because they all worked on it together. I hear Will's work since taking over is extremely good, check out Comics.IGN.com for reviews of the book. It's one of the reviewers favorite books and he reviews it each month. I stopped reading after Brubaker/Cooke/Allred left (actually left the whole comic collecting for two years) and came back, never to check out the book again. I think it's already surpassed the original Catwoman series, don't quote me on that though.

[Captain Jim]

It also definitely has a more "super-hero-ish" feel and less of a noirish feel than Brubaker's run. Catwoman has faced a lot more super-powered criminals as well as frequent visits by Zatanna, and most of Brubaker's supporting characters have since been written out of the book.

I'm not sure this is a fair critique. I recall two interactions with Zatanna; does that count as "frequent"? And both were written in response to what had been done with Selina in JLA. And Pfeifer used Brubaker's supporting cast a lot until fairly recently, when editorial mandated that Holly be removed for use in Countdown. In similar fashion, editorial demanded the recent tie-in's with Amazons Attack and Salvation Run. I don't think it's fair to blame Pfeifer for that.

[Captain Jim]

OK, sounds good.

What about suggestions for a good point to get in on the more current issues. I don't think I want to read all 70+ issues, at least not now. I had only planned to pick up Brubakers run but I like the character so I though I'd give Pfiefer a chance.

Unfortunately, neither Brubaker's later issues (with Gulacy on art) or the early Pfeifer issues have been collected. DC resumed Catwoman trades after OYL, and there are three to date:

The Replacements (53-58)
It's Only a Movie (59-65)
Catwoman's Dead (66-72)

[mgs]

Unfortunately, neither Brubaker's later issues (with Gulacy on art) or the early Pfeifer issues have been collected. DC resumed Catwoman trades after OYL, and there are three to date:

The Replacements (53-58)
It's Only a Movie (59-65)
Catwoman's Dead (66-72)

thank goodness I don't get this title for it's trades! :)

[Brack360]

I'm not sure this is a fair critique. I recall two interactions with Zatanna; does that count as "frequent"? And both were written in response to what had been done with Selina in JLA.

I am away from my comic book collection right now and am going by memory, but I recall at least three interactions with Zatanna, two of which spanned multiple issues. Zatanna first appeared in #49-50, where she informed Selina of the mindwipe. She appeared again circa #58-59, where Selina called her to mindwipe Angle Man and Film Freak. Zatanna appeared most recently in #72. In my opinion, this character and her god-like, "deus ex machina" powers are totally out of place in a Catwoman book, especially the current series as set up by Brubaker. The mindwipe and the way it was dealt with is probably the biggest of several problems I have had with Pfeifer's run (others being the baby storyline, the multiple baby kidnappings, and annoying villains like Hush, Angle Man, Film Freak, and Hammer and Sickle whose storylines dragged on for too long). This type of plot-driven, Deus Ex Zatanna storytelling is a total contrast to the character-driven, street-level tone that Brubaker established for this series. And yes, I would call five Zatanna guest appearances in the span of 24 issues excessive and frequent.

And Pfeifer used Brubaker's supporting cast a lot until fairly recently, when editorial mandated that Holly be removed for use in Countdown.

Countdown had nothing to do with the removal of Slam Bradley and the killing-off of his son, and Slam was a much more infrequent character in Pfeifer's run from the beginning anyway. It also had nothing to do with the removal of Karon, though she would have had more limited storyline potential with Holly gone. Furthermore, Pfeifer has not added any new supporting characters to replace the ones who were written out.

I am still enjoying this book to a certain degree or I would have stopped buying it, and I have enjoyed some of the more recent issues more than the earlier ones. However, I have found it somewhat frustrating to see what was once my favorite comic by far (when Brubaker was writer) decrease in quality. I certainly would not consider it one of DC's best series in its current state.

[Agent_Torpor]

Frankly, Selina hasn't had a need for recurring supporting characters to replace Holly and Slam. Once Selina got the suit back on, Holly was more than surplus requirements anyway.

[Captain Jim]

I am away from my comic book collection right now and am going by memory, but I recall at least three interactions with Zatanna, two of which spanned multiple issues. Zatanna first appeared in #49-50, where she informed Selina of the mindwipe. She appeared again circa #58-59, where Selina called her to mindwipe Angle Man and Film Freak. Zatanna appeared most recently in #72. In my opinion, this character and her god-like, "deus ex machina" powers are totally out of place in a Catwoman book, especially the current series as set up by Brubaker. The mindwipe and the way it was dealt with is probably the biggest of several problems I have had with Pfeifer's run (others being the baby storyline, the multiple baby kidnappings, and annoying villains like Hush, Angle Man, Film Freak, and Hammer and Sickle whose storylines dragged on for too long). This type of plot-driven, Deus Ex Zatanna storytelling is a total contrast to the character-driven, street-level tone that Brubaker established for this series. And yes, I would call five Zatanna guest appearances in the span of 24 issues excessive and frequent.

Wow, you're away from your collection and yet you can recall specific issue numbers off the top of your head? I'm impressed. You're right, it was three, not two (I forgot about the Film Freak time.) But simply because two appearances spanned two issues doesn't, um, magically turn it into five appearances! I'm not particularly happy with what happened in JLA myself, but I think it would have been more problematic had Pfeifer simply ignored it.

Countdown had nothing to do with the removal of Slam Bradley and the killing-off of his son, and Slam was a much more infrequent character in Pfeifer's run from the beginning anyway. It also had nothing to do with the removal of Karon, though she would have had more limited storyline potential with Holly gone. Furthermore, Pfeifer has not added any new supporting characters to replace the ones who were written out.

I imagine Slam will be back eventually. As you say, Karon would have limited potential without Holly. And I never considered her a major supporting character anyway. As Torpor says, the book hasn't really had a need for supporting characters lately. I see it as being in transition at the moment, and once all the crossovers end, we'll see where things go. (I will say that, before she left, I think Pfeifer had some of the best Holly-centric stories in the history of the book. I hope she eventually makes her way back.)

I am still enjoying this book to a certain degree or I would have stopped buying it, and I have enjoyed some of the more recent issues more than the earlier ones. However, I have found it somewhat frustrating to see what was once my favorite comic by far (when Brubaker was writer) decrease in quality. I certainly would not consider it one of DC's best series in its current state.

And you're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it's one that I (and several others on this forum) don't share. Pfeifer's run is certainly different from Brubaker's, but it remains one of my absolute favorite DC titles. And I'll reiterate what I've said elsewhere: I think it's quality is higher than Brubaker's later issues, when he was teamed with Gulacy. (And I seem to recall that Ed used a fair share of super-heroes in those issues himself.)

[Christopher Cross Is God]

OK, sounds good.

What about suggestions for a good point to get in on the more current issues. I don't think I want to read all 70+ issues, at least not now. I had only planned to pick up Brubakers run but I like the character so I though I'd give Pfiefer a chance.

I'd say start with issue #73......the comic's at #76, currently, so that's an easy way to get into the title. Issue 77 comes out this coming Wednesday.

Before issue 73 there was some stuff about her getting rid of her baby, and I didn't think that read too well......Probably moreso because I was new to the book, but I remember reading a lot of complaints from long-time readers about that arc.