Countdown #08 spoilers!

[matt_hatyber]

I know its early but does anyone have spoilers for todays issue?

[crimson red]

What a let-down. I was expecting spoilers. Why don't you wait until someone actually makes a post with the spoilers instead of starting a thread with no substance. geez

[mohammedali]

Agreed. We seem to be having these pointless first posts every time.
I can guarentee you that anyone who has the book will post it straight away without being prompted by a thread.

[ShaggyB]

What a let-down. I was expecting spoilers. Why don't you wait until someone actually makes a post with the spoilers instead of starting a thread with no substance. geez

Because for the last 10 issues no one has posted complete spoilers without being asked for it. I fully understand why he wants them... i look in here every wednesday for spoilers on countdown only to find none. Sean nicely updated 09 spoilers quickly but no one else does, usually a request for spoilers in countdown will go un answered until after 5pm. Let the guy ask, he wants them as much as you do

[matt_hatyber]

What a let-down. I was expecting spoilers. Why don't you wait until someone actually makes a post with the spoilers instead of starting a thread with no substance. geez

im sorry , but really know for countdown u have to ask for them, because people dont post them for people anymore.

[Sean Walsh]

Basically everyone yells at each other.




Am I talking about the issue or this thread so far? ;) :p



(Both actually, it seems...)


This ish we learn:

a) somehow Jimmy, Forager III and the Hairies got to Apokalips behind the scenes
b) Bob the Monitor and Darkseid stop playing their chess game and Darkseid claims victory, saying he's been controlling EVERYTHING from the start - he also reveals that Bob was the reason Captain Atom's skin split in BATTLE FOR BLUDHAVEN, to begin his descent into madness as the Monarch and thus lead his forces (controlled by Bob, or so he thought)
c) the powers of the dead New Gods are somehow being funneled into Jimmy by Darkseid - no mention of their souls, so those are clearly residing in the 2nd Source Wall
d) if Karate Kid goes back to Earth with the virus, we're all bleeped
e) Karate Kid goes back to Earth with the virus (along with literally everyone else), so...
f) no Pied Piper to be found in the crowd of Earth heroes, so I guess he's dead
g) Carlos Magno has gotten a bit better with the art, but it still kinda stinks


And yes, between all these talking points the characters were all yelling at each other (and Bob was yelling at them for yelling) :p

[JWangSDC]

Jimmy gets all heroic wants to take on darkseid...till Bob tell him s darkseid will just take the powers back. AKA jimmy is an idiot.

Atom eavesdropped on DS and Bob's convo.

This series blows

[matt_hatyber]

Basically everyone yells at each other.




Am I talking about the issue or this thread so far? ;) :p



(Both actually, it seems...)


This ish we learn:

a) somehow Jimmy, Forager III and the Hairies got to Apokalips behind the scenes
b) Bob the Monitor and Darkseid stop playing their chess game and Darkseid claims victory, saying he's been controlling EVERYTHING from the start - he also reveals that Bob was the reason Captain Atom's skin split in BATTLE FOR BLUDHAVEN, to begin his descent into madness as the Monarch and thus lead his forces (controlled by Bob, or so he thought)
c) the powers of the dead New Gods are somehow being funneled into Jimmy by Darkseid - no mention of their souls, so those are clearly residing in the 2nd Source Wall
d) if Karate Kid goes back to Earth with the virus, we're all bleeped
e) Karate Kid goes back to Earth with the virus (along with literally everyone else), so...
f) no Pied Piper to be found in the crowd of Earth heroes, so I guess he's dead
g) Carlos Magno has gotten a bit better with the art, but it still kinda stinks


And yes, between all these talking points the characters were all yelling at each other (and Bob was yelling at them for yelling) :p


so really nothing happened?

[4thHorseman]

Just to point out, Bob was the monitor who got fried back on Earth 51 by Solomon, who is the one playing chess with Darkseid.

[Sean Walsh]

Just to point out, Bob was the monitor who got fried back on Earth 51 by Solomon, who is the one playing chess with Darkseid.

........really? Sad that I didn't remember this until now, several weeks later.

*shrugs*

[4thHorseman]

Now...maybe I'm missing something, and I haven't read it yet, but did they address what "threat" Donna saw at the end that needed Kyle Rayner up and running?

And did anyone notice that the cover for this issue was changed?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I gotta say, I'm really not liking the Challenegers right now. They completely marginalized Ray Palmer, who seems to be the only one who knows what he's talking about.

Oh, and the teleportation was a great move from the Monitor, but all according to DS's plans.

[Sean Walsh]

Now...maybe I'm missing something, and I haven't read it yet, but did they address what "threat" Donna saw at the end that needed Kyle Rayner up and running?

And did anyone notice that the cover for this issue was changed?

The only thing I could think of was that it was the Olympian Gods - trapped in that machine on Apokalips - communicating to one of their children.

And I take it the cover changed since the one previewed last week in the back of #9 had nothing to do with the events within. Hoping that one's used next week, though, since the cover previewed in the back of #8.

BTW, this cover was very similar to an old New Gods cover; right down to the explosive action in the foreground.

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11333/400/11333_4_012.jpg

[Jack Zodiac]

Wow, I read this issue in the store because, like the cover suggested, it was going to be a big showdown between Darkseid and Solomon, but holy !@#$in' !@#$ was it a crapfest! It's literally twenty-two pages of the same damn thing over and over again.

"Crap! That virus is gonna kill everyone on Earth! Let's not go there! But boohoo, Karate Kid is so !@#$ing important as a character, we can't just let his busted open, bleeding chest-ass die! Oh! And we have to kill Darkseid because he's evil and has planned every stupid, nonsensical thing that's happened in this entire ridiculous book! But he's way too strong to beat, plus we have to find a cure for this virus! Or we have to let Karate Kid die! But oh, no, Una wants us to save him and Jimmy's got his elastic balls in a knot to go fight Darkseid! It seems like something we should do since we all conveniently wound up on !@#$in' Apokolips and none of us have done crap worth doin' except Catgirl and Harley and Mary and poor, stupid Piper. Oh! Look! We don't have to worry about doing anything or resolving any conflict because here comes a Monitor to plot-device us back to Earth!

Neat..."

Also, Mango's a horrible artist. How long as Donna's jaw in that one panel? She looked like a clown.

[COMIC GEEK]

I'm so glad I dropped this series pretty much right after duela dent was killed.

The series sucks in my opinion just like 52 did, again in my opinion.

Yet people were saying oh it will get better, but guess what they are up to week what 8 now? and it still sucks.

so when is it suppose to get better? :rolleyes:

I hope final crisis will be promising.

with all the hype and marketing, I have yet to see DC "DELIVER"

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I've defended this title multiple times, but seriously, this series is extremely crappy, ESPECIALLY compared to 52. The concepts, direction, and execution was so much better there. You can litterally see the difference in writing talent and artistic ability between the two titles.

Hopefully, Final Crisis isn't hampered too much by this title.

[Capt USA]

I keep hoping it will be good, but overall there really is nothing redeeming about this series, it's 52 issues that could have been told in probably 20 or so and many of the issues do nothing to progress the story. Compared to 52 which was much tighter and better written(it had it's flaws of course, but it was a better series for the most part)

My main dissatisfaction has been the inability to move the story forward on an issue per issue basis, you can see the thinking about this grand story, forcing non-related story into one final story, but it just doesn't work. Oh well only a few more issues to go, and the next weekly is almost impossible to mess up.

[drwho]

I dont read this but they are saying saving one man, karate kid, is more important than keeping a whole planet of people alive? Also all that build up of monarch to have him just go in one issue. I'm also glad I didnt buy this. it seems like all these major build ups ive read in spoilers such as brother eye as apokolips get dealt with in one issue. Which with having as much time devoted to the series to the developments would disappoint me immensely.

[Spectreguy]

...I did like the bizzaro origin in the back. :)
spectreguy(keeps repeating "it's almost over, it's almost over", wash, rinse, repeat) :D

[Hawkman]

I typically look forward to the Gray/Palmiotti issues, but this was probably the worst issue of the entire series. It's basically 22-pages of the same characters repeating the the same lines over and over again. Una's afraid KK's going to die, Ray says let's kill him, Jason says he'll do it, Donna tells everyone to calm down, Kyle wants to book it out of Apokolips, and the list goes on. They could've all had their own word bubbles on one to two pages and the issue would've been just as fleshed out as it stands now, but not half has repetitive.

I didn't even enjoy the back-up. Like all things Bizarro, I found it more annoying to read than anything else. In my opinion, the only decent thing to come out of this issue was the "shortsighted spawn of apes" line. That made me smile a little. Oh, and the cover was kind of nifty... I guess.

[gorosaurus]

Where do Darkseid, the Monitor and all these cosmic types get DC heroes 'pawn' figures to play with to show the reader they are manipulating everyone. Do they have to order them from DC Direct? Do they create them out of thin air? Do they really need them so they can play their cosmic games? Did the Monitor move a figure while Darkseid wasn't looking?
I would like to add superheroes as chess pieces as one of the most overused cover ideas. Despero did it in the 60's and I'm sure it wasn't new then.:cool:

[Samurai]

Wow, I read this issue in the store because, like the cover suggested, it was going to be a big showdown between Darkseid and Solomon, but holy !@#$in' !@#$ was it a crapfest! It's literally twenty-two pages of the same damn thing over and over again.

"Crap! That virus is gonna kill everyone on Earth! Let's not go there! But boohoo, Karate Kid is so !@#$ing important as a character, we can't just let his busted open, bleeding chest-ass die! Oh! And we have to kill Darkseid because he's evil and has planned every stupid, nonsensical thing that's happened in this entire ridiculous book! But he's way too strong to beat, plus we have to find a cure for this virus! Or we have to let Karate Kid die! But oh, no, Una wants us to save him and Jimmy's got his elastic balls in a knot to go fight Darkseid! It seems like something we should do since we all conveniently wound up on !@#$in' Apokolips and none of us have done crap worth doin' except Catgirl and Harley and Mary and poor, stupid Piper. Oh! Look! We don't have to worry about doing anything or resolving any conflict because here comes a Monitor to plot-device us back to Earth!

Neat..."

Also, Mango's a horrible artist. How long as Donna's jaw in that one panel? She looked like a clown.

I've gotta agree. A completely useless issue, a waste of $3. They yell at each other, Una cries for KK, they yell some more, Una says we need to save KK (boo-hoo!), more yelling, more crying, and Bob then teleports everyone back to Earth saying Humanity isn't worth saving if these idiots are the best and brightest it has. And I kinda had to agree with him.

[worstblogever]

Not only did I dislike the repetition, and lack of developing plot in this issue, only to be solved by a Solomon "deus ex machina" teleport... but then there's the logic in my head. I'm gonna get scientific here for a minute...

For those of you who don’t know anything about viral biology, there’s a key thing when it comes to its nature. You need to know its vector of transmission. Let’s look at some examples!

Hepatitis C is a blood borne virus. Meaning, unless you get some blood with HCV in it into your own blood stream, you don’t get it. It can be passed through sexual transmission, depending on how rough the sex is (mild scratching or bleeding involved to transmit, or menstrual cycle factors), and theoretically, if two people with really bad bleeding gums make out, they can transmit it. HCV infection used to happen through blood transfusions before they knew to check units of blood for hepatitis years ago, and through the re-using of needles from tattoo work, or IV drug users. We know better today, its spread is being lessened.

Herpes viruses are transmitted through pus within a herpes sore. That includes chicken pox. So, unless you touch infected skin with your own skin that contains the virus, you don’t catch it. So, don’t go rubbing up against anyone covered in herpes sores. Love is temporary, but herpes is forever, after all.

The most famous Lyssavirus, rabies, which is spread through both the blood and saliva of people infected in it. Thus, why the bite of a rabies-infected organism effects the one it bites.

The Hantavirus is a semi-widely known virus that is transmitted by aerosolized rodent droppings or urine (old dry rat pellets crumble to dust, and somebody disturbing them, and kicking up the dust breathes them in). While rats are just a carrier, humans can easily die from respiratory complications of the disease.

There are influenza viruses which are spread mainly via respiratory contamination. Airborne viruses also include rhinoviruses like the common cold. These are considered the most contagious types of viruses, but thankfully, they usually are not the most deadly. They are often transmitted by the coughs and sneezes of those already infected.

Even the most famous highly contagious deadly virus, Ebola Virus, is only passed through contaminated blood, stool, or vomit. Sure, it attacks virtually any kind of body cell it touches once a person is infected with it, and has about a 90% mortality rate. But the point is, there’s no fear of contamination unless you’re exposed to it in that method. Fears abound that as a kind of retrovirus, it could mutate at any time and become an airborne pathogen. This would be a pestilence upon mankind, to be sure, provided quarantine isn't established, but we're not going to see it for awhile.

Which is the stupid thing about MORTICOCCUS! First of all, Morticoccus would translate to two old words in Greek, “Morti-“ and “Kokkus” which end up meaning “Death-Seed”. Pretty straight forward. Although, “coccus” is a word usually more associated with bacterium in modern science, I’ll let that lie just stick with “Death-seed” as a virus name. But it’s the lack of discussion about how the Morticoccus virus is spread that’s bugging me.

My complaint is, if Ray Palmer’s had five years to study the Multiverse, and find people to grant IMMUNINTY to the disease, does he NOT KNOW how its spread? He seems really afraid that Karate Kid’s been cut open, so NOW he’s contagious. Well, if the disease is blood borne, DON’T LET HIM BLEED ON YOU. If it’s spread via airborne contamination, wouldn’t everyone he’s encountered during Countdown (including the JLA) already have it? And if Kyle Rayner keeps him in a force ring bubble, and they take him and lock him down in a quarantine on Earth… how’s the virus going to spread further? Maybe researching how to stop the spread of the disease is the first trick?

What I’m getting at, is, whoever is writing Countdown is scarcely doing their biology homework, and keep contradicting themselves. If Morticoccus is a virus, how’s it transmitted? And if Ray Palmer already took the antibody to it from Ray Palmer of Earth-51, and “seeded” other heroes on other Earth’s with it, why doesn’t he just start inoculating people on New Earth with a vaccine while you keep Karate Kid in quarantine? Cover these things, already. If you’re using it as the last great mystery of your epic saga, you should at least be able to do better than talk out of your *ss.

Horribly, horribly written. Seriously, the Sci-Fi channel original movies do more research than this.

[Rolltideguy77]

I must be one major sucker. I bought every issue of 52 and hated every issue up until like the last two. But I kept thinking it would get better next week. I have bought every issue of Countdown and hated every issue yet I thought it will get better next week. Now that I am down to the final weeks I guess I will just keep it going until the bitter crap-fest of an ending. I will NOT be buying a single issue of Trinity. I think weekly comics are a bad idea because there simply isnt enough "oh @!$*" moments on a weekly basis to keep a reader that interested. Just give me my monthly comics.

[Choppa]

Just to point out, Bob was the monitor who got fried back on Earth 51 by Solomon, who is the one playing chess with Darkseid.

........really? Sad that I didn't remember this until now, several weeks later.

*shrugs*

I beleive it's Solomon playing with Darkseid.

And Grant has said that FC will be self-contained and won't rely too much on Countdown, so don't let it spoil your anticipation for it.

[wolverine316]

52 issues were so unnecessary because now it feels like it is just filler issues we are reading. Until the writers pick things up, Countdown is a piece of garbage. Bring back Prime!!!!

[MWGallaher]

And why the heck did the Legion intentionally strand Karate Kid--infected with a globally destructive if poorly-defined virus--on Earth at the start of all this?
Wait, lemme guess: that was actually Solomon's first real move in this ridiculous "chess game", because he never really wanted to become "Prime Monitor", or to become the Source itself, or save the Multiverse, or to absorb the other monitors, or to beat Darkseid in a game, but actually wanted to cause the Great Disaster. Hey, why the heck not? We've got no basis at all to rule out yet another secret motive or hidden plan pulled out of thin air and attributed to any random character in the whole series.

[drwho]

I beleive it's Solomon playing with Darkseid.

And Grant has said that FC will be self-contained and won't rely too much on Countdown, so don't let it spoil your anticipation for it.

If countdown has little to do with final crisis by what g.m. says isnt that ripping off people that bought the comic thinking it actually had something to do with final crisis since I was under the impression this was a major lead in to that.

[Hawkman]

If countdown has little to do with final crisis by what g.m. says isnt that ripping off people that bought the comic thinking it actually had something to do with final crisis since I was under the impression this was a major lead in to that.
Considering the title of the series itself was changed to Countdown to Final Crisis, with all likelihood to draw in more readers, I'd say that, yeah, it's a classic bait and switch job.

This whole series has lacked direction. It's patently obvious that Dini and co. only had a vague idea where they were going at the start, and have since taken multiple unplanned routes on top of that. Admittedly, 52 did the same thing, but at least I enjoyed that series more often than not.

As someone else said, there's no way I'm buying Trinity, Hawkman in the back-ups or not. I'll thumb through it at the shop, maybe pick up an issue or two that prominently features characters I like, but I'm not shelling out $3 an issue for fifty-two weeks again. If the series is a critical success, then I'll buy it on eBay when it's finished for a fraction of what it would've cost me at retail.

[Choppa]

If countdown has little to do with final crisis by what g.m. says isnt that ripping off people that bought the comic thinking it actually had something to do with final crisis since I was under the impression this was a major lead in to that.

Considering the title of the series itself was changed to Countdown to Final Crisis, with all likelihood to draw in more readers, I'd say that, yeah, it's a classic bait and switch job.


Well it wouldn't be the first time DC has completely changed the direction of a book. Remember 52?

I think that Countdown is now simply counting down to Countdown to the issue Final Crisis #0 and not the actual series itself. Didio said that the Countdown stuff is going to be wrapped up before FC starts, and I believe it will happen in that one issue.

[Will.S]

If countdown has little to do with final crisis by what g.m. says isnt that ripping off people that bought the comic thinking it actually had something to do with final crisis since I was under the impression this was a major lead in to that.
It is a rip off if absolutely nothing makes it from into Final Crisis.

However I think there will be a few things that Grant already mentioned that will make it into Final Crisis such as Mary Marvel and her new powers, the monitors will continue to get face time, and the stuff going on with the New Gods will transition from Countdown into Final Crisis.

As for this issue while I understand the complaints and many of them are valid, I still was able to enjoy the issue because we are finally getting answers for Jimmy, Darkseid's game with Solomon, and the gathering of heroes here was pretty darn cool since they're all B-C list characters. I will say though that I'm curious as to what else they're going to cover after this, I can't see Karate Kid dying unless they merge Legion earths and I think after that and the Piper stuff is resolved you can pretty much head straight into Final Crisis.

Oh and Carlos Magno's art actually looked pretty decent thanks to a better inker and colorist. But it still has a good deal of problems with perspective and facial expressions. For example, when Solomon talks to Kyle it looks like he grew in actual size rather than the perspective he was actually in.

And for some reason characters inappropriately smile regardless of the scene such as the end with the Atom, he's smiling! WTF?

[Sweetbabyjezuz]

Good i'm not the only one that was disappointed.

I think this is the problem when your writing issues - to- numbers instead of numbers-to-story.

I.e. 52 weeks/Countdown = we must have 52 issues instead of a comic where they make the # of issues relate to the progression of the story.

[Tumbido]

And for some reason characters inappropriately smile regardless of the scene such as the end with the Atom, he's smiling! WTF?

I've seen that. It's kinda freaky. :(

[Will.S]

I've seen that. It's kinda freaky. :(
Glad I'm not the only one who thought so.

[JCAll]

Well it wouldn't be the first time DC has completely changed the direction of a book. Remember 52?

I think that Countdown is now simply counting down to Countdown to the issue Final Crisis #0 and not the actual series itself. Didio said that the Countdown stuff is going to be wrapped up before FC starts, and I believe it will happen in that one issue.

So Countdown is just counting down to the end of Countdown?
Well, at least that's something to look forward to.

[the4thpip]

I dont read this but they are saying saving one man, karate kid, is more important than keeping a whole planet of people alive?

Or even the entire universe, according to Ray.

Hey, look at the bright side: No Queen music this issue.

[Sean Walsh]

Hey, look at the bright side: No Queen music this issue.

If only Wally West had shown up..... :p

[Jack Zodiac]

Whoa-oh! He'll save every one of us!

[ZNOP]

However I think there will be a few things that Grant already mentioned that will make it into Final Crisis such as Mary Marvel and her new powers, the monitors will continue to get face time, and the stuff going on with the New Gods will transition from Countdown into Final Crisis.

Despite, what I, read about Mary at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Marvel What can she do now that she couldn't do before?

[matt_hatyber]

why was marys lightning bolt on her chest black in the issue???

[Will.S]

Despite, what I, read about Mary at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Marvel What can she do now that she couldn't do before?
Let me clarify, I didn't mean "new" as in a brand new set of powers but as being re powered again and using them in Final Crisis.

From what I've seen there hasn't been that much difference, its probable that the Greek Gods gave her a little something extra or different than what Shazam gave her but it's too soon to really say.

why was marys lightning bolt on her chest black in the issue???
It was black a couple of issues ago too. It's probably like that to differentiate her costume a little from the Marvel family since she got her powers from a different source. It's a small tweak but I dig it better than her old one.

[ZNOP]

Let me clarify, I didn't mean "new" as in a brand new set of powers but as being re powered again and using them in Final Crisis.

From what I've seen there hasn't been that much difference, its probable that the Greek Gods gave her a little something extra or different than what Shazam gave her but it's too soon to really say.

I, see. I love her latest costume, now with a gray lightning bolt and long sleeves. Very sexy:evilsmile B.T.W. She still wearing that one? I haven't seen her in the pages lately

[Will.S]

I, see. I love her latest costume, now with a gray lightning bolt and long sleeves. Very sexy:evilsmile B.T.W. She still wearing that one? I haven't seen her in the pages lately
I love the new costume as well :D

And yeah she's still wearing it throughout Countdown, it should be interesting to see where she goes next since she's tied to the Greek Gods so maybe she'll be appearing in Wonder Woman more often.

[ZNOP]

I love the new costume as well :D

And yeah she's still wearing it throughout Countdown, it should be interesting to see where she goes next since she's tied to the Greek Gods so maybe she'll be appearing in Wonder Woman more often.

Good to know:cool: Which leads to my next question. Mary was originally powered by Greek Gods to start with. (Selena for grace, Hippolyta* for strength, Ariadne for skill, Zephyrus for fleetness (and flight), Aurora for beauty and Minerva for wisdom.) Where and when did that change???

(And, no I'm not talking about what happened in Countdown, where Black Adam gives Mary his Egyptian powers.)

[carabas]

Good to know:cool: Which leads to my next question. Mary was originally powered by Greek Gods to start with. (Selena for grace, Hippolyta* for strength, Ariadne for skill, Zephyrus for fleetness (and flight), Aurora for beauty and Minerva for wisdom.) Where and when did that change???I think it was when DC aquired the characters. Maybe someone noticed that there is no Minerva in the DCU (she's called Athena over there).