Conquer the world... and then what?

[StoneGold]

There are plenty of world conquering types in the MU. But it's rare that any writer gives them a motivation for conquering the world beyond it seemed like a good idea at the time. What would individual characters/teams do if they actually managed to take over the world?


I mean, other than get bored with it and "accidentally" let the heroes kick their asses. Assume there's no Emperor Doom scenario.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

Well, of course, there's the whole 'shape it in their image' thing, or how they want it. Really, they just want it for the power.

I mean...you conquer the world, you've got it pretty damn easy. :p

[XPac]

Well, I recall when Overmind took over the Squadron Supreme earth, he basically just used it as a staging area to take over the rest of the universe.

So for some villains, maybe there's no real end... they just keep on going.

[Joe Acro]

So for some villains, maybe there's no real end... they just keep on going.
Look at that one version of Hyperion in Exiles. He ruled his world, then went on to attempt controlling all realities.

[Titanium]

Dr. Doom would eliminate world hunger, poverty, disease, civil unrest, and make the world an all around better place to live.

[StoneGold]

Honestly, I'm wondering more what some of the small-timers would do. The guys less likely to actually pull it off. The Struckers and Mole Men of the world.

[Expletive Deleted]

Dr. Doom would eliminate world hunger, poverty, disease, civil unrest, and make the world an all around better place to live.Plus the totalitarianism. Mustn't forget the totalitarianism.

[StoneGold]

Plus the totalitarianism. Mustn't forget the totalitarianism.

And everyone has to where lederhosen.

[XPac]

Honestly, I'm wondering more what some of the small-timers would do. The guys less likely to actually pull it off. The Struckers and Mole Men of the world.

The problem with the small timers is that they think small.

They probably wouldn't have a clue what they would do if they conquered the world, because really all that means is that you become a policy maker. A guy like Doom is prepared and capable of doing that. But he's a very rare exception. I'll wager most others won't actually want to run the world.

Someone like Mole Man would just avoid the issue entirely If he conquers the world, he'd likely just go back into hiding and let whatever's left of the world to pick up the pieces.

Struckers would probably try to create a dictatorship. But those never work. He's do a lousy job running things, fighting one rebellion after another until he's overthrown or he just crumbles from the pressure.

[LungerTony]

Mandarin.
While not technically conquering...he wants to 'improve' all of humanity by making them all superior, and letting the weak ones die in the process, including himself.

And I would so vote for Doctor Doom for president than Rodham or Hussein, or McCain.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Well some villains have a motive to try and make the world a better place (like Doom and perhaps Magneto) where they feel they have solutions to the world's problems and need to take over to enact them.

Other villains, like Red Skull and Apocalypse, want to make the world a world place, they have nihilistic ideologies and want to turn the world into a giant death camp.

So I would say the really noble and really evil villains have clear visions of their reign over the Earth.

[Floyd The Barber]

I have found that the most fascinating views on world domination were rooted in fear of oppression. Ie: Magneto. Magneto wants to conquer the world before it conquers him.

[XPac]

I have found that the most fascinating views on world domination were rooted in fear of oppression. Ie: Magneto. Magneto wants to conquer the world before it conquers him.

Well, we already kinda know what the world would be like of Mags conquered it thanks to House of M. Overall, it's not TOO bad. You an do a lot worse than Magneto I suppose.

[Floyd The Barber]

Well, we already kinda know what the world would be like of Mags conquered it thanks to House of M. Overall, it's not TOO bad. You an do a lot worse than Magneto I suppose.

A helluva lot worse, I'd take Mags world over that of Thanos, Mephisto, Ulron, or Annihilus anyday.

[CyberHubbs]

I'd much rather live under Dr. Doom than Ultron, that's for sure.

But, yeah. Doom would then go take over the Moon and the Inhumans, then use the Terrigen Mists to take over the rest of the universe. After that, he'd start on other realities.

His mother would be proud.

[carabas]

DC did a mini-series a while ago, Empire. It was by Mark Waid and Barry Kitson, and the premise was basically: Doctor Doom has won.
The book starts with a victorious Doom, eh, Golgoth, with all superheroes dead.

[Sanagi]

If you rule the world, you get all the toys and all the candy and you don't have to share with anybody!

[StoneGold]

DC did a mini-series a while ago, Empire. It was by Mark Waid and Barry Kitson, and the premise was basically: Doctor Doom has won.
The book starts with a victorious Doom, eh, Golgoth, with all superheroes dead.

Originally it was from Gorilla. But I'm just being a smarty pants.

[Maestro]

It feels like no one has wanted to conquer the Earth in a long time.

[jackolover]

There are plenty of world conquering types in the MU. But it's rare that any writer gives them a motivation for conquering the world beyond it seemed like a good idea at the time. What would individual characters/teams do if they actually managed to take over the world?


I mean, other than get bored with it and "accidentally" let the heroes kick their asses. Assume there's no Emperor Doom scenario.


I looked at Planet Hulk for an example. When Hulk took over, he was very benevolent, and tried to do a Reed Richards thing, and make everyone happy, and he got blasted for that.

Anybody, like the Skrulls for example, who take over the world, had better eradicate humans, or the same thing will happen to the Skrulls as what happened to Hulks empire. It seems the only way to achieve complete domination is to remove the previous occupants, alla War of the Worlds, or Independance day.

Once the earth has been scorched, the victors can set up their own Empire, like the Roman Empire, unhindered by the prospect of any resistance.

[XPac]

It feels like no one has wanted to conquer the Earth in a long time.

But if you really think about it... who would want to? Yeah... conquering it might be fun. But I imagine ruling it would be a drag.

To really commit yourself to something like that, you either have to have a genuine obsession with wanting to make the world a better place, or you have to be nuts.

[jade_nova]

They will do paperwork. Do you have any idea how much paperwork is involved in conquering and running the world?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

But if you really think about it... who would want to? Yeah... conquering it might be fun. But I imagine ruling it would be a drag.

To really commit yourself to something like that, you either have to have a genuine obsession with wanting to make the world a better place, or you have to be nuts.

Islamic fundametalists prattle on about taking over the world all the time, so it does happen in real life.

Also I think some of the mad scientist villains don't want to take over the world, as so much as turn it into one giant lab experiment (like the Leader wanting turn humanity into a bunch of gamma mutants.)

[psm]

I think the scariest one to take over would be Red Skull. Of course if you look aryan it might not be so bad.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Well, we already kinda know what the world would be like of Mags conquered it thanks to House of M. Overall, it's not TOO bad. You an do a lot worse than Magneto I suppose.

well, lets remember, that's a world where EVERYTHING went EXACTLY the way Mags wanted it to. It was literally his perfect world. If the real life mags got to take over the planet odds are it would be much worse then the House of M reality was.

Most would-be world conquerers would do one of the following-

1) Consolidate power and prepare for invasion of other territory. As many people have discussed above, people like Kang and Exiles Hyperion would not be satisfied with dominating the one planet. They'd just keep going. No real plan for ruling other then subjugation and motivation to support the ongoing invasion of other realities/earths/planets. The best model to look at for this is the Roman and Mongol empires. Vassal states were conquered, but not much of there day to day was changed other then asking for there taxes to go to a new goverment and for support for further expansion.

2) Change governance/society to match your "perfect" ideal. This is for ideological motivated world conquerers. You take the differing social, economic and political systems of an area and you start shooting people till they conform to be a part of your system. Communist/Jyhadist supervillians tend to have this goal as to more "lofty" villains like Doctor Doom. However, this model also includes groups taking over the world to benifit there citizens economically. The Soviet Union is a good example of the first form of would-be world conquering organization and the British Empire would be a good example of the second. Groups like HYDRA, AIM and the Brotherhood, and villains such as the Red Skull, Magento, Alexander Lutkin, Apocalypse and The Mandarin all have the first goal in mind, and I can't think of too many people who have the second at heart.

3. Earn the love of the people. Strange as it may sound, some world conquerers will just want the people of the planet to love them and be happy rather then subjugating them and enforcing there own ideals. This leader will give them panem et circenses, the Bread and Circuses of rome to keep them happy and to keep himself in power. This leader is non-confrontational and gracious after defeating the world's leaders and heroes, and will attempt to find compromise rather then just having people shot. Many national leaders following civil war followed this model, as did The NATO nations during the Cold War ("Winning Hearts and Minds" often included free Jeans and home appliances).

4. Kill them all. Pretty straightforward. You kill everyone, or kill everyone of a specific type. At first it may seem that this is a subtype of option 2 (your perfect society lacks some group or all people in general) but it has a few major differences. First, the societal model or primary governance of an area need not undergo drastic change- they just need to let you kill who you want to kill. Second, If everyone is dead, theres no society to subvert or alter, thus making it even more ideologically stringent. In the comics the Purifiers and the Acolytes are good examples of this type, as are the Nazi party in real life.

[Monty_Cristo]

Dr. Doom would eliminate world hunger, poverty, disease, civil unrest, and make the world an all around better place to live.

and all it would cost the citizenry is their civil rights and peace of mind.

[XPac]

and all it would cost the citizenry is their civil rights and peace of mind.

Well, I guess that's the upside of Doom using mind control like he did when he conquered the world the last two times. Ironically enough, the only one that lacked piece of mind was Doom himself.

[Tobias Drake]

Y'know, there's actually a video game based on this premise. It's called "Overlord". It's pretty good.

THIS HAS BEEN AN UNPAID ADVERTISEMENT. THAT'S RIGHT, WE EVEN ADVERTISE ON MEMBER POSTS NOW.

Anyways,

Dr. Doom would eliminate world hunger, poverty, disease, civil unrest, and make the world an all around better place to live.

He would also give free puppies to children. Doom loves children!

[Dorsai]

I don't think you can limit world domination in the MU to villains. In my opinion, Tony Stark has succeeded where everyone else has failed. He isn't on a throne but in true Machiavellian fashion, he is pulling a majority of the strings from the board room, his lab, or the helicarrier. The pieces on the board not under his control soon will be (looking closely at Latveria) or already destroyed (looking at the ruins of Atlantis).

As the Romans proved quite effectively, you don't have to personally rule everything as long as you have people in place that will make the decisions YOU want them to make.

[XPac]

I don't think you can limit world domination in the MU to villains. In my opinion, Tony Stark has succeeded where everyone else has failed. He isn't on a throne but in true Machiavellian fashion, he is pulling a majority of the strings from the board room, his lab, or the helicarrier. The pieces on the board not under his control soon will be (looking closely at Latveria) or already destroyed (looking at the ruins of Atlantis).

As the Romans proved quite effectively, you don't have to personally rule everything as long as you have people in place that will make the decisions YOU want them to make.

Well, that's the thing... a lot of the people who do try to conquer the world don't consider themselves villains. They're heroes in their own mind.

Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse... they all genuinely believe that they're doing what's best. And that's part of the reason why they're so dangerous.

I won't equate Stark to them completely, but he definately operates on that same slippery slope.

[niall mc cann]

well, lets remember, that's a world where EVERYTHING went EXACTLY the way Mags wanted it to. It was literally his perfect world. If the real life mags got to take over the planet odds are it would be much worse then the House of M reality was.

Correct and right. And let's not forget that the main orchestrator of that world was Quicksilver, not Magneto at all. It was Pietro who not only basically gave every hero their "dream come true" but also manifested the world as place where Mags was argueably an idealised version of himself, not given to the bouts of pettiness or madness that the normal Mags occasionally indulges in.

House of M is absolutely not a reflection of what the world would be like if Mags conquered by force.

Most would-be world conquerers would do one of the following-

1) Consolidate power and prepare for invasion of other territory.

2) Change governance/society to match your "perfect" ideal.

3. Earn the love of the people.

4. Kill them all.

I could see Doom being either 1 or 2. I think he'd fit category 2 until the first show of force from some extra-terrestrial source, after which he'd mobilise and use the world a la option 1.

Red Skull and the Struckers (and by extension Hydra) I'd put in category 2. They're Nazis. They're convinced there's a Jewish conspiracy that they have to destroy and replace with a new Reich. Once they'd accomplished that I figure they'd be happy in their aryan utopia.

Mags I'd figure for a number 2. He's not a conquerer by inclination, I don't believe. He basically feels it's a dirty job that he has to do.

I kind of see The Mandarin as an option 3. I basically think if he ever succeeded in taking over the world it wouldn't be worth a damn to him if we didn't all turn around and say "Gee, you're right. All that ancient Chinese wisdom (as interpreted by you) leads to a much more fulfilling and wonderful life. Thanks for that, man." He just seems that vain to me. Nefaria is kind of in this category for me too, inasmuch as he's a world-conqueror at all.

Ultron and The Hand are category four, since Ultron wants to wipe out all biological life, and The Hand just want rid of all life, period.

Apocalypse is probably closer to a category four than any of the other categories. He doesn't really want to govern the world or kill everybody as much as he just wants everybody to submit to the same overiding biological imperative: kill who you meet. It's not essential to him that everyone die, like it is to Ultron or The Hand, just so long as everyone who isn't dead is being made to fight so that remains the case.

[Cthulhudrew]

Well, of course, there's the whole 'shape it in their image' thing, or how they want it.

In Graviton's most recent appearance (discounting the weird "born again" version that recently fought the Avengers), he was going to literally shape the world in his image, using his gravitation powers to make it look like his face.

Even the Living Planet doesn't have an Ego that big. :p

[Cthulhudrew]

Mandarin.
While not technically conquering...he wants to 'improve' all of humanity by making them all superior, and letting the weak ones die in the process, including himself.

Interesting thought- have the Mandarin and Apocalypse ever fought? I could totally see them clashing over ideologies. Throw in the Red Skull to boot.

[Cthulhudrew]

It feels like no one has wanted to conquer the Earth in a long time.

With all the messes going on in the MU that they'd have to clean up, I can't blame them. :p

[Cthulhudrew]

I kind of see The Mandarin as an option 3.

Baron Zemo falls into this one lately, as well as #2.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Apocalypse is probably closer to a category four than any of the other categories. He doesn't really want to govern the world or kill everybody as much as he just wants everybody to submit to the same overiding biological imperative: kill who you meet. It's not essential to him that everyone die, like it is to Ultron or The Hand, just so long as everyone who isn't dead is being made to fight so that remains the case.

I'd put Apoc firmly in 2 because he wants to change the shape of society rather then purge any particular element and leave the rest of society intact. The Purifiers (the best example of a "selective" type 4, as opposed to the kill EVERYONE type 4) don't want to change the governance of the US or any other nation, they just want to off the Mutants and then let the people go about there business.

Apoc wants the world to be restructured to a darwinian mosh-pit of survival of the fittest. He's going to reshape the world so that the strongest survives, and the weak are culled. A type two in my mind.

Baron Zemo falls into this one lately, as well as #2.

Zemo is confusing, but Post-Born Better I would have to put him in 3 as well. Then again, I liked him much better when he was a 2. Now he's just a wuss.

[niall mc cann]

I'd put Apoc firmly in 2 because he wants to change the shape of society rather then purge any particular element and leave the rest of society intact. The Purifiers (the best example of a "selective" type 4, as opposed to the kill EVERYONE type 4) don't want to change the governance of the US or any other nation, they just want to off the Mutants and then let the people go about there business.

Apoc wants the world to be restructured to a darwinian mosh-pit of survival of the fittest. He's going to reshape the world so that the strongest survives, and the weak are culled. A type two in my mind.

Yeah, that's fair enough.

The thing that stopped me from including him as a type 2 was just that administrative governance wouldn't really be necessary if we were all just living like animals, but you're right; in his head, 'Poccy only sees one person at the top of the tree.

Although... hasn't he turned into some kind of disembodied vampire at this stage, actually? I may have been showing my age mentioning him at all..:o

[the_coldest_sun]

This is an excellent thread! bump =)

[DaeJi]

See, I would never want to take over the world. I would want to be the best friend of the guy who took over the world. All of the perks, none of the responsibilities. Plus, it'll be easier to get away when the revolts happens, since everyone would be gunning for the top guy, not his friend.

[Monty_Cristo]

See, I would never want to take over the world. I would want to be the best friend of the guy who took over the world. All of the perks, none of the responsibilities. Plus, it'll be easier to get away when the revolts happens, since everyone would be gunning for the top guy, not his friend.

i'd rather be the cousin of the guy who takes over the world. if things go wrong, the friend will be the second in line to be executed. the cousin will be put into witness protection like the Bin Laden's.

[DaeJi]

i'd rather be the cousin of the guy who takes over the world. if things go wrong, the friend will be the second in line to be executed. the cousin will be put into witness protection like the Bin Laden's.

Oh no, the next would be the right hand man. I wouldn't actually be involved with his/her regime, I'm no fool.

[niall mc cann]

Oh no, the next would be the right hand man. I wouldn't actually be involved with his/her regime, I'm no fool.

I'd be his pet.

Zero repurcussions.

[Monty_Cristo]

I'd be his pet.

Zero repurcussions.

except for the constant abuse.