Black Panther Annual #1 *spoilers*

[bluedmighty]

GREAT read.

We start off in space at the Wathcher's place.

One of the Golden frogs appears next to his foot and gets his attention.
The Frog tells the Watcher that it has been watching him just as long as the Watcher had been watching them. They begin to have a descussion about the Watcher's prophecy in Fantastc Four regarding the Kingdom of Wakanda and it's future.

The Frog asks how the Watcher knows all this, and asks if he's seen it.
The Wathcher tells the frog that he does not have visions or travel through time like the Frog does. Instead, he relies on experience and probability. He knew that T'challa and Ororo would be the foundation of a dynasty, and that dynasty would change the course of Humanity

We then drop into Future Wakanda.

It is the wedding day of T'challa's oldest son, and there is a great celebration. The Black Panther appears in typical Wakandan flare, by leaping out of the Totem's mouth.

We then flip to the Palace. King T'challa is seen prepping some of his children for the day's festivities. He tells to keep the family drama to a minnimum, and then asks where the youngest is. Of course no one knows.

Next, we see Storm enjoying the breeze as she floats in the country.
T'challa pages her and asks where she is. She tells him she is "Just floating".
She says it's nice to not be rushing off to beat people up. He tells her that she is going to wear herself out before the wedding. She tells him that she is renewing herself before she has to smile at "those people". They have a father mother talk about each's attitude and approach to the wedding. Storm feels that T'challa only sees the Pollitical advantage/importance of the union. While T'challa says she's just being overprotective of her first born Cub.

He then tells her that their youngest, T'wari, is missing. Storm flies off to find him, while her and the Panther exchange words about the Boys' differences. T'challa's twin daughters, who look like their mom, say that they could have found him. T'challa tells them it's not about finding him, it's about the conversation to be had when he's found.

We then see T'wari sitting on a rock as his mother shows up. He tells his mother he's not going, and she asks him what could be worth hurting your family and your friends by not attending?

He says he sees what his father is doing, trying to make nice with the Americans. He asks why do they have to work with other countries, they are a warrior peolpe. Queen Ro tells him that is how Wakanda saved its soul.

Ororo then gives us a history lesson envolving Wakanda and the European powers that be. We see one of the first Black Panthers, and are shown how Wakanda remained sovriegn in the midst of colonization and slave trade.

Next we are shown that Pax Americana began to conquer nations. It was easy for them to garner support at first. They invaded Latveria and killed Doom, then they destroyed Atlantis out of the public eye. Wakanda had way too many resources, and way to much wealth to be left alone, which led to a war against the United States.

In the final battle, The two totems (a Giant Robot Iron Man, and a Giant Pantherbot) fought. The Ironman shot a beam and sliced off the Pantherbot's left arm. At the same time the Pantherbot leaps onto Ironman's chest knocking him down and bitting his throat.

As it turned out, at the end of the battle, Toney was linked to his Avatar to the point that he sustained the same injuries. After that, the war was over. T'challa in his last official act as Black Panther brokered a peace that lasts to this day.

Other Highlights:

Shuri, T'challa's sister became the first Woman to wear the cerimonial Panther garb in a long time, and was the most powerful Black Panther in history.

T'challa's son married "Baby" Cage.

Luke was President of the United States.

Woverine was big and fat.

The four most powerful words in existance, "Leave it to Storm" :D

Those Frogs sure don't like Wakandans.

Also, the introduction of King Solomon at the end was cool, and makes it seem that there is a default diminsion for the frogs when they're not causing trouble for the King and his Queen.


Yeah,

10/10

[GalactaSurfer]

Awesome issue but i wash we got to see some action with Black Panther Suri, maybe a side story or some thing.

[bluedmighty]

Well,

Now they have their own established alternate universe to pull from, I wouldn't be surprised to see BP Shuri or the kids pop up in the 616.

The King Solomon scene gives me the feeling that we'll be seeing all theses guys again at some point.

Is this the first appearance of King Solomon in the MU?

[drwho]

So now the golden teleporting frogs are on the cosmic level of the Watcher? That is laughable in my opinion. Now I wonder if they are ever going to explain more about the frogs.

[Yaw]

So now the golden teleporting frogs are on the cosmic level of the Watcher? That is laughable in my opinion. Now I wonder if they are ever going to explain more about the frogs.

Since their inception the frogs nonsensically have transported individuals thru different dimensions. McDuffie was the first to imply they were actually sentient. Hudlin was the first to actually make them sentient. Nevertheless all the frogs do is travel through time and space and possibly bring others along for the ride. Jack Kirby is the one who introduced the frogs.

[Josef F.]

I siad I wouldn't get into it.
But it's the worst thing I've read since the Draco.

They destroy Latveria, But can't beat wakanda.
Doom would put up FAR more of a fight than the Panther.

Not to mention the fact that it was resolved with robots.
And why would iron man link himself to his robot.
That was a terrible resolution.
If they'd have just gave it a normal robo-fight it would have been better.

And they destroyed Atlantis.
Oh. You mean that one the was already destroyed?

OH, the cosmically powered frogs are just. . . .I can't even mention them seriously.

All the slavery and colonization was FAR too heavy-handed.
IT became almost parody of what people said the book was becoming.

So those are MY points.

Oh and,the art was pretty and Storm has cool powers (not like she used them much mind you)

Oh and I'm NOT a hater,I just thought it was terrible.
It sits upon my living room chair, far far away from me.

Now time for discussion.:)

[BoneMonkey]

black to the future ? ........ is that a joke lol

[drwho]

Well,

Now they have their own established alternate universe to pull from, I wouldn't be surprised to see BP Shuri or the kids pop up in the 616.

The King Solomon scene gives me the feeling that we'll be seeing all theses guys again at some point.

Is this the first appearance of King Solomon in the MU?

Didn't the frogs originally belong to King Solomon when they were introduced? I'm gonna stop while I am ahead because reading the spoilers pretty much get me hyped up in a bad way and hit the wrong buttons with me if Hudlin wrote this annual because it seems like the same old schtick. I will say no more. Can't wait for Storm to turn out to be a skrull. lol

[worstblogever]

Hudlin wants King Solomon to become an important character. You know, so he can appear to concede to T'Challa that he's the wisest king ever.

Fits into the Hudlin fanwank perfectly.

[bluedmighty]

black to the future ? ........ is that a joke lol

It's a play on words.

Didn't the frogs originally belong to King Solomon when they were introduced?

Yes, and they still do.

However,

When they were first introduced by Jack Kirby they were a 2 part mechenism. They were a gift to King Solomon.

In this incarnation the frogs are sentient, and appear to come and go as they please.

[GalactaSurfer]

I dont understand why people think all the History stuff was heavy handed, it was well woven into Wakandan history.
I get them feeling that people are just uncomfortable with the subject of African history, no surpirse there.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

The whole issue stink stank stunk. I'd like to start a campaign to get Priest back on Black Panther the way some folks campaigned to get Hal Jordan back as Green Lantern several years ago.

[Brian M.]

I dont understand why people think all the History stuff was heavy handed, it was well woven into Wakandan history.
I get them feeling that people are just uncomfortable with the subject of African history, no surpirse there.

Ok seriously...lets not start w/ the racial undertones.

I got the issue, the only BP issue I've read since the HoM tie-in, which I thought was one of the best ones. Was it me or was this book solicited as a glimpse into the future of Wakanda? While we got a glimpse into it, I feel like this story was nothing but a what-if one-shot. Why get it if it doesn't tie into the main story? Yea you learned a little bit about the past of Wakanda and such...but unless that is going to directly tie into some upcoming stories, I just don't get why you put it in a book that is suppose to be about the future. I think I'm making sense, I'm trying too.

The art...the art was fantastic. I loved it. As corny as the fights were, they were beautifully drawn.

I don't know if I'll pick up another issue of BP or not. Hudlin's writing and characterization didn't really grab me or convince me his BP is an interesting character.

[bluedmighty]

I dont understand why people think all the History stuff was heavy handed, it was well woven into Wakandan history.
I get them feeling that people are just uncomfortable with the subject of African history, no surpirse there.

Not only that, but Mr. Hudlin DARED to take it there.

I don't think there has everbeen an attempt to explain, in story, how Wakanda managed to remain independant in the midst of such turmoil.

Rather than just say that Wakanda is technologically advanced, mighty, and undefeated, Hudlin has shown us that these weren't just some "Natives" that hapened onto Vibranium and "blew up". Wakanda was international back during the "Triangle" and worked to subvert slavery in many ways.

[Christopher O]

I get them feeling that people are just uncomfortable with the subject of African history, no surpirse there.
Give me a break. Hudlin is a bad writer. That's what people are uncomfortable with.

[GalactaSurfer]

Ok seriously...lets not start w/ the racial undertones.

I got the issue, the only BP issue I've read since the HoM tie-in, which I thought was one of the best ones. Was it me or was this book solicited as a glimpse into the future of Wakanda? While we got a glimpse into it, I feel like this story was nothing but a what-if one-shot. Why get it if it doesn't tie into the main story? Yea you learned a little bit about the past of Wakanda and such...but unless that is going to directly tie into some upcoming stories, I just don't get why you put it in a book that is suppose to be about the future. I think I'm making sense, I'm trying too.

The art...the art was fantastic. I loved it. As corny as the fights were, they were beautifully drawn.

I don't know if I'll pick up another issue of BP or not. Hudlin's writing and characterization didn't really grab me or convince me his BP is an interesting character.

Sooooooooo how was the Historical stuff heavy handed?

Im not starting with any racial undertones I was simply asking why people see it that way. I mention peolpe being incomfortable with the subject because the story didnt feel heavy at all.

[Brian M.]

Sooooooooo how was the Historical stuff heavy handed?

Im not starting with any racial undertones I was simply asking why people see it that way. I mention peolpe being incomfortable with the subject because the story didnt feel heavy at all.

I didn't care about the history, it's good to finally get that out there, but I bought this book based on the solicit, which I remember correctly was what where Wakanda was 20+ years from now and how it got there. Again, my memory could be wrong but I believe that's what it said. That's why I bought the issue, I was hoping to get a glimpse of some plotlines Hudlin was gonna touch upon in upcoming arcs. Instead it felt like a What If One Shot that does nothing for the main ongoing.

[GalactaSurfer]

Give me a break. Hudlin is a bad writer. That's what people are uncomfortable with.

He not a great writer but hes not a bad one either i could agree tha hes a mediocre writer and there are TONS of writers in the biz that are mediocre and they dont get have the shiznit that Hudlin gets.

People bitch even when the stories are decent!

People keep saying that his writing is bad but what i really hear is the problems people have with the subject matter. Now i could agree that the subject matter isnt always given the treatment that it really desrves but this is a comic. A comic that geared towards people who want to have that type of thing in their stories.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sooooooooo how was the Historical stuff heavy handed?

Im not starting with any racial undertones I was simply asking why people see it that way. I mention peolpe being incomfortable with the subject because the story didnt feel heavy at all.

Having not read the issue, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a knee jerk reaction to Hudlin's writing, given that the plot sounds like a was Hudlin's default story.

"Outside, imperialist world envies Wakanda, attacks and gets beaten by Panther/Wakanda's awesomeness."

That was the point of the first arc, the House of M issue and Arabian Cliche...I mean Knight, attacking Panther when he was talking to Storm and proposing. That's a hella lot of plots focused on just one narrow theme, especially given trade writing and how little time T'Challa's spent in Wakanda. Same story, same complaints.

Whether they're valid, of course, is another matter.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

Rather than just say that Wakanda is technologically advanced, mighty, and undefeated, Hudlin has shown us that these weren't just some "Natives" that hapened onto Vibranium and "blew up". Wakanda was international back during the "Triangle" and worked to subvert slavery in many ways.


I would love to read a story detailing that. Unfortunately, all we've gotten is bad dialogue and uninteresting characterization.

[Christopher O]

He not a great writer but hes not a bad one either i could agree tha hes a mediocre writer and there are TONS of writers in the biz that are mediocre and they dont get have the shiznit that Hudlin gets.
No, others definitely get shit.

People bitch even when the stories are decent!
They haven't been decent. The only story by Hudlin that I've read and enjoyed was the House of M tie-in. That was fun. Everything else has been disappointing. Of course, he has good moments but never enough to make a good issue. I continue to read because I love Storm and the good moments give me hope that maybe he'll eventually have a good issue.


People keep saying that his writing is bad but what i really hear is the problems people have with the subject matter.
People have problems with the way the subject matter is handled. You're just hearing what you want to hear.

Now i could agree that the subject matter isnt always given the treatment that it really desrves but this is a comic. A comic that geared towards people who want to have that type of thing in their stories.
That isn't really an excuse. Plenty of writers have used comic books as a platform to explore controversy and social issues in general and have done it well. Hudlin hasn't. I love much of the subject matter and think he's had some interesting ideas--the MLK and Malcolm X Skrulls being one of them. I just don't think he's done a good job with them.

[Josef F.]

He not a great writer but hes not a bad one either i could agree tha hes a mediocre writer and there are TONS of writers in the biz that are mediocre and they dont get have the shiznit that Hudlin gets.


When people don't like the stories, They're pretty vocal about it.
One More Day,Most Of Ultimate X-Men,Ultimates, Austen.
He was given a chance to do his thing on the book, And it hasn't worked.
It's not shifting a hell of a lot either.

People bitch even when the stories are decent!

Apart from House of M tie - in.
I haven't enjoyed any of the ones i read.
(Note: Haven't been on the pull list for a while. I read them in-store)

People keep saying that his writing is bad but what i really hear is the problems people have with the subject matter.

Controversial subject matter always makes the best stories.
They've been dealt with in other places subtly and effectively, and as less of a "Every issue"
Here, it's the same themes, in every issue of every arc.
It's tedious.


Now i could agree that the subject matter isnt always given the treatment that it really deserves but this is a comic. A comic that geared towards people who want to have that type of thing in their stories.

"it's a comic" aint no excuse.
Comics can be touching, hilarious, or anything. They can do anything a book/film/piece of music/anything else can.

Hudlin's just got no execution on this thing.
Maybe he'll deal out some more of those Malcolm X skrulls in secret Invasion.
I enjoyed them far mroe than Robo-Panther.


Edit: Well I basically said what D.E.C.did. lol

[HepOne]

I got the issue, the only BP issue I've read since the HoM tie-in, which I thought was one of the best ones. Was it me or was this book solicited as a glimpse into the future of Wakanda? While we got a glimpse into it, I feel like this story was nothing but a what-if one-shot. Why get it if it doesn't tie into the main story? Yea you learned a little bit about the past of Wakanda and such...but unless that is going to directly tie into some upcoming stories, I just don't get why you put it in a book that is suppose to be about the future. I think I'm making sense, I'm trying too.

Isn't EVERY single issue of Immortal Iron Fist and the tangential one shots based off the EXACT same premise?

[Excelsior]

I enjoyed the issue. It was the perfect treat for black history month, And I believe the only comic dealing with the subject of African slavery since Milestone's Icon.

I feel as though you will enjoy the book more if you watch the BBC mini-series Shaka Zulu before reading the comic--It adds to the enjoyment of the book.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

No offense, but I've seen Shaka Zulu and I still think this book blew. Maybe the problem was the limited format. Hudlin tried to squeeze the Uatu sub-plot, family introductions, a history lesson, a brief recap of the future of the Marvel U., and a wedding ceremony all into one comic. These story threads could have been fleshed out more in the monthly instead of that asinine Fantastic Four crap.

[Brian M.]

Isn't EVERY single issue of Immortal Iron Fist and the tangential one shots based off the EXACT same premise?

I don't read that book...so I don't know.

[XPac]

Honestly, I really wanted to like this book but it didn't wow me.

It was certainly an interesting read, but it felt more like I was reading something out of the Marvel Handbook, or maybe a wiki. The history lesson was interesting, but I didn't feel like I was reading a comic book (let alone a comic with a 4 dollar price tage).

Honestly, I think they just should have had the annual about the female Black Panther (she looked pretty cool), and saved the 4 dollar history lesson as a back up story.

If it's a tribute to black history month, then I can understand why they did it the way they did. But honestly don't think I got bang for my buck here. Though I ended up buying it anyways since I wanted to support BP, so I suppose I have no one to blame but myself.

My other tiny tiny issue with the book is that it felt more like a What If than anything else. You can't not feel that way after seeing a dead Dr. Doom. But that's a small thing... I do see why they did that.

[Brian M.]

Honestly, I really wanted to like this book but it didn't wow me.

It was certainly an interesting read, but it felt more like I was reading something out of the Marvel Handbook, or maybe a wiki. The history lesson was interesting, but I didn't feel like I was reading a comic book (let alone a comic with a 4 dollar price tage).

Honestly, I think they just should have had the annual about the female Black Panther (she looked pretty cool), and saved the 4 dollar history lesson as a back up story.

If it's a tribute to black history month, then I can understand why they did it the way they did. But honestly don't think I got bang for my buck here. Though I ended up buying it anyways since I wanted to support BP, so I suppose I have no one to blame but myself.

My other tiny tiny issue with the book is that it felt more like a What If than anything else. You can't not feel that way after seeing a dead Dr. Doom. But that's a small thing... I do see why they did that.

That sums up a lot of my feelings too.

I did buy the last one in my LCS...so it sold out where I was.

[Sanctus]

The book was good, not the greatest, but good. I walked away happy from it. Actually I was more happy with it than the NA Annual. Hudlin gets a lot of flacks, but I think that the book has been solid for a while and the annual was as well.

[worstblogever]

My problem with this annual, and Hudlin's run, is very early on it became very clear to me that T'Challa will not lose. He won't be maimed. He won't even get a bloody nose.

And when the lead character is never in jeopardy, the conflict is null. And when the conflict is null, the book is dull. It's getting ridiculously stale, to the point where its Hudlin's fan-fiction.

I've seen cosmically powered characters in jeopardy. But not T'Challa. And it's not like he's picking D-Listers to fight every month. From his fanatical bodyguards, to his endless resources and myriad of tech and magical devices, to his entire nation's political might, to his weather goddess of a wife... he's got every angle covered.

Of course, that makes it incredibly boring. Some would compare him to other icons, like Batman or Stark... but come on, Batman gets the crap kicked out of him sometimes. Stark is getting pulled in a billion directions and can't keep up.

Meanwhile, T'Challa's been warned to get home and run his country without any penalty by the village elders for the past year of comics. And who's going to be a threat? Killmonger? PUH-LEASE.

Secret Invasion and a Skrull infiltration is the only hope this book has for improving. That, or another writer. Of course, the Skrulls in Wakanda will probably turn out to be the Malcolm & MLK Skrulls and T'Challa will just go out drinking with them instead of them trying to kill him. Just watch.

[Capt USA]

The Good.

Most of the historical aspect of the storyline, somewhat unbelieveable (mostly about the part where the wakandan king basically allowed slavery because it wasn't worth the effort to fight it even though they would probably win...yea, right)

But beyond that, the historical stuff was good, I liked that aspect of the story.

The interaction between the family, it was a nice scene very good, good dialogue etc.

The Ehh....
The actual wedding...yep a fat wolverine was funny, although I imagine his healing factor probably prevents that from being a reality, not to mention his bones wouldn't expand enough to be that fat. the rest was more a take it or leave it type of thing.


The Just no, please no.
The entire war with the u.s., cage as president (Sam Wilson I could see, but not Cage) The totem fight, the ease that Wakandan won the war is ridiculous. Sorry but Wakandan doesn't have the resources to fight the U.S. on their own, it's been portrayed many times that they need to use backdoor politics, alliances etc just to prevent a U.S. invasion from happening. They are a rich country, but don't have the population, and since a lot of their wealth is tied up in "money" not useful resources(except Vibranium) they couldn't wage a war that is based upon army, minerals and sheer firepower.

The once again making Stark appear to be an idiot, and a power hungary maniac at that. Seriously if Stark wanted to take out Wakandan, there is absolutely zero that T'Challa could do to prevent it.

[worstblogever]

The Good.

Most of the historical aspect of the storyline, somewhat unbelieveable (mostly about the part where the wakandan king basically allowed slavery because it wasn't worth the effort to fight it even though they would probably win...yea, right)

But beyond that, the historical stuff was good, I liked that aspect of the story.

The interaction between the family, it was a nice scene very good, good dialogue etc.

The Ehh....
The actual wedding...yep a fat wolverine was funny, although I imagine his healing factor probably prevents that from being a reality, not to mention his bones wouldn't expand enough to be that fat. the rest was more a take it or leave it type of thing.


The Just no, please no.
The entire war with the u.s., cage as president (Sam Wilson I could see, but not Cage) The totem fight, the ease that Wakandan won the war is ridiculous. Sorry but Wakandan doesn't have the resources to fight the U.S. on their own, it's been portrayed many times that they need to use backdoor politics, alliances etc just to prevent a U.S. invasion from happening. They are a rich country, but don't have the population, and since a lot of their wealth is tied up in "money" not useful resources(except Vibranium) they couldn't wage a war that is based upon army, minerals and sheer firepower.

The once again making Stark appear to be an idiot, and a power hungary maniac at that. Seriously if Stark wanted to take out Wakandan, there is absolutely zero that T'Challa could do to prevent it.

Speaking of fat Wolverine... sure that's funny. But wasn't it funnier back when Alex Ross and Jim Krueger did it back during the Earth X maxi-series? Just like when they married Storm & Black Panther then?

Just pointing out, someone's riding someone else's coattails when they do write something worth saying it's good.

[bulbasteve]

Sooooooooo how was the Historical stuff heavy handed?

Im not starting with any racial undertones I was simply asking why people see it that way. I mention peolpe being incomfortable with the subject because the story didnt feel heavy at all.

That panel with the giant stained glass window of Jesus was pretty dang on the nose don't you think?

What we mean by heavy handed I think is simply lacking subtlety. When you have Malcom X and MLK as Skrulls you have really...really decided to just not even bother with subtle storytelling anymore.

Speaking of fat Wolverine... sure that's funny. But wasn't it funnier back when Alex Ross and Jim Krueger did it back during the Earth X maxi-series? Just like when they married Storm & Black Panther then?

Just pointing out, someone's riding someone else's coattails when they do write something worth saying it's good.

Now now be fair, the entire MU has been riding their coattails since it came out. :p

[StoneGold]

No offense, but I've seen Shaka Zulu and I still think this book blew. Maybe the problem was the limited format. Hudlin tried to squeeze the Uatu sub-plot, family introductions, a history lesson, a brief recap of the future of the Marvel U., and a wedding ceremony all into one comic. These story threads could have been fleshed out more in the monthly instead of that asinine Fantastic Four crap.

I can agree with that. I actually liked the Wakandan history lesson, but most of the rest was blech enough that it weighed down the good.


Also, the art got pretty bad on some pages. And I used to like Larry Stroman. Although it does explain what Strong Guy was doing at the wedding.


And what the hell was the Silver Surfer of all people doing with the Initiative forces? And where did everyone else go on the Wakandan attack? Just Tony? He's not that stupid. And he knows about the giant robot panthers.

[Titanium]

The thing that bothered me the most of the issue, I don't know why but was the Punisher being at the Wedding. In the front row. In a costume. Like it's no big deal. Like they just wanted to bring all the marvel big guns they could and fit them in a splash image.

Besides that, Hudlin's run has kinda sucked. A lot. Does he just not know anything about comics and the characters he throws in for no reason?

[StoneGold]

Besides that, Hudlin's run has kinda sucked. A lot. Does he just not know anything about comics and the characters he throws in for no reason?

Could have been Stroman throwing him in there. Last I remember Stroman working at Marvel, it was the early 90s, and Punisher was everywhere.

[DaeJi]

This read like a giant what if? story. Actually made it bearable. But not good. Or medicore even.

[Loren]

Ah, where to begin? How about with the most unequivocal complaint: why is a story billed as a "special double-sized issue" only 34 pages long? Shouldn't it be, y'know, twice the size? (I know, I know...the food is terrible, and such small portions.)

Here's the meat of the solicit:

It’s 2057 and the Watcher’s prediction came true: Wakanda is an Imperial Power steering the course for humanity’s future. As T’Challa prepares the next Black Panther for the great responsibility ahead, he must first reflect on the road traveled–a long and winding journey filled with surprises.

Did we see *any* of this in this issue? There's no indication that Wakanda is an imperial power (frankly, a good thing). There's little indication of Wakanda's influence on the global scale (other than characters stating 'Wakanda is important'). There is no next Black Panther. T'Challa doesn't prepare anybody. T'Challa doesn't reflect about anything. And although Storm does some reflecting, very little of it (~5 pages) is about the interim 50 years.

OK, perhaps we should just assume that Hudlin had nothing to do with the solicit, and that it was written by some Marvel hack who didn't bother to, y'know, read the issue they were summarizing. So we can't necessarily blame him for that. But we can blame him for this, the intro text in the annual:

"On the day of [T'Challa and Storm's] wedding, Uatu the Watcher appeared to witness the union. Because it is known that he appears only to record moments of great change and enormous upheaval, many thought that T'Challa and Ororo's marriage would change the world. And, as time would tell, it has...'

I thought Uatu's appearance at the wedding was lame the first time, as if Hudlin was trying to force the import of the moment on the reader ('This is important! I mean, really important! Look, Uatu himself is here, and he didn't even show up for Mr. Fantastic's wedding! And sure, Watchers usually don't show up for events that might one day lead to great change/upheaval, but that just shows how REALLY important this is!')

So, how has T'Challa and Storm's marriage changed the world, like page 2 says? Well...you don't really get any answers in the Annual. They had some kids, and Wakanda beat the US in a remarkably ill-thought-out invasion, and that's about it. Again, it's stated a time or two that Wakanda's important on the world stage, but we're never shown HOW. And there's nothing to indicate how STORM has helped change the world. (Similarly, it's stated that Shuri is the "most powerful Black Panther in history." No details, no evidence to back this up. It's just stated as being true. I'm almost impressed that Hudlin has managed to write a comic book for three whole years without bothering to learn the "Show, Don't Tell" rule of comic storytelling.)

So instead of getting any real sense of what the Wakanda of 2057 is like, or how our main characters have evolved, or how the MU of 2057 is different, we're mostly treated to two big flashbacks. In fact, the Annual is pretty much structured like so:

Framing Sequence A - Watcher & the Frog
Framing Sequence B - Wakanda 2057
Flashback 1 - Wakanda & Slavery
Framing Sequence B
Flashback 2 - Iron Man Invasion
Framing Sequence B
Framing Sequence A

Now some might want to disagree with the future segments being a framing sequence, but I think it's apt. There's only the bare scrapings of a plot there (BP's son is depressed about brother getting married, mom tells him stories, wedding happens). The entire future sequence seems to exist only to provide a narrator for the flashbacks, and to allow for the obligatory splash page of future cameos. Most of the issue is just Storm telling stories to T'Wari. T'Challa himself (y'know, the "Black Panther" of the "Black Panther Annual") appears on just a handful of pages. And to think that some people complain that Ross took too much attention away from T'Challa.

And why, with the future setting serving as a framing sequence, the Annual needed ANOTHER framing sequence to booked IT, that's just beyond me. Those pages could have been used to, y'know, say something insightful or interesting about the future, rather than to see a talking deus ex amphibian chat up Uatu.

Frankly, the whole thing is a smorgasboard of Hudlin's writing faults. I could go page-by-page, or I could just cite some big examples.

- Bad history. The European transatlantic slave trade pretty ended well before Europe started conquering and colonizing Africa. The Annual pretends as if both were happening simultaneously.

- Bad dialogue. T'Challa: "Mr. President." Cage: "Who've thunk it?" This exchange makes no sense in context; the annual has already established the families have a long, close relationship. Unless this is their first conversation after his election (and it can't be), this is terribly hackneyed dialogue. And it's just one example.

- Bad politics. For all the poor understanding of politics we've seen in Hudlin's BP, this may take the cake: the daughter of the President of the United States entering into a political marriage with the prince of a foreign kingdom. WTF?!? Do I even have to explain how antiquated and anachronistic this concept is, or how it's made even more nonsensical when it's the child of a temporary, elected leader?

- Bad continuity. And this isn't nitpicky continuity either; it's very, very broad. Tony Stark declares a very straightforward physical invasion of Wakanda with Iron Man robots. Y'know, pretty much the same kind of invasion that was tried by the US and failed in Hudlin's first arc. They apparently forgot that. And they get beat-down by Wakanda's superior technology, which Tony apparently...also forgot about. (Just to cite one example, say, the giant Wakandan battleship that T'Challa had several of in Priest's series. Including one laying in wait in the Hudson River.)

(And spinning off that last parenthetical, apparently in the future, nobody deals with practical battle weaponry anymore. The US has a giant Iron Man robot that it uses for serious military purposes, and Wakanda fights back with a giant Panther robot. Sure it looks cool, but it's the height of Silver Age silliness.)

Also, apparently the 'Black Panther Title Fight' from Hudlin's first arc is no longer part of Wakandan culture, since T'Challa apparently just *gave* the title to his sister. In one sense, that's good, because an unending sequence of physical brawls was a really, REALLY dumb way to choose a leader. On the other hand, changing it to this scraps the only decent aspect of it that Hudlin was aiming for in the first place, which was to bring some egalitarianism to Wakandan leadership. Apparently, Wakanda's back to being a hereditary monarchy. How 21st-century of them. Then again, if the US can start getting into the political marriage business in the future...

- Bad timing. The future setting is stated as being "several decades from now." Specifically, 2057. (And even if we ignore that, "several" is definitely more than "three.") So why does nobody look 50 years older? Storm, in particular, barely looks older at all. And since their kids look to be in their 20s, did they wait 20 years to have kids? And shouldn't President Luke Cage be, like, 80? Did somebody forget to do, well, ANY math about this?

- Bad characterization. Future T'Challa and Storm are given four children, two sons and two daughters. None of them are given any degree of characterization, beyond "T'Wari is kinda envious of his brother's fiance." The son actually getting married is given no characterization at all. The two daughters are not only given zero characterization, they're not even given NAMES.

- Same jokes. In the slavery sequence, there's a page where a character references Wakanda, followed by a panel of other characters staring in silence, followed by a panel of those same characters stating their awe over Wakanda. How many times has Hudlin used this exact pacing joke before? It feels like his trademark at this point.

- Same boring Wakanda. Hudlin's Wakanda of the future is the same dull utopia it is today. Everything's great there! Probably the reason why the biggest conflict the future Wakanda seems to suffer is one prince being a little jealous over his brother's wedding. But not so jealous that he's not OK with it after a talk with his mom. It doesn't exactly make for interesting reading.

- This point isn't a recurring theme, but there were a couple of things in this issue I simply didn't understand. What's with the 19th-century Storms? What exactly was the compromise the 19th century BP made?

---

Let's take a moment to compare the Annual with Priest's Black Panther #36-37, a future-set story that was originally pitched as an Annual.

Priest: Calls his story "The Once and Future King," a la TH White.
Hudlin: Calls his story "Black to the Future."

Priest: Gives T'Challa a son, T'Charra, and a daughter, Faida.
Hudlin: Gives T'Challa TWO sons, T'Chaka and T'Wari, and TWO daughters, who he doesn't bother to name.

Priest: Makes Sam "Falcon" Wilson the mayor of New York.
Hudlin: Makes Luke Cage the President of the United States.

Priest: Actually tells a story with a plot in the future.
Hudlin: Uses the future setting just to bookend flashbacks.

I think I may need to cleanse my palate by pulling out those issues and reading them again.

[Walter Hill]

Like Hudlin's writing and story telling or not -- a lot of people on this thread are sure buying his book. Just a fact.

[Christopher O]

Like Hudlin's writing and story telling or not -- a lot of people on this thread are sure buying his book. Just a fact.
And yet Black Panther slides closer to cancellation each month. Just a fact.

[DaeJi]

Like Hudlin's writing and story telling or not -- a lot of people on this thread are sure buying his book. Just a fact.

I have a friend who buys it.

[bulbasteve]

Great post Loren (now I don't have to ever think about this issue again, right? :))

[Xero]

For me this was an excellent read, I had a great two hour conversation last night about this annual, and I'm glad that Reginald Hudlin setup this timeline.

Also we finally get a well thought out explanation as to why Wakanda developed it's non-interference policy as regards to the rest of Africa.

In my opinion this was an excellent read.

I tend to lump Hudlin haters in with the Winick hating mouth breathers, and after reading some of their trollish posts here, I see no reason to update that policy.

If you don't like Hudlin or Winick then DON'T READ THEIR F#CK!NG BOOKS!

[Christopher O]

I tend to lump Hudlin haters in with the Winick hating mouth breathers, and after reading some of their trollish posts here, I see no reason to update that policy.
Trollish? People like you and statements like this are more trollish than those who've expressed dissatisfaction in this thread. People criticize Hudlin, and they're either being trollish or racist or both. It's absurd. Stop seeing what you want to see, and take a look at what's actually there.
If you don't like Hudlin or Winick then DON'T READ THEIR F#CK!NG BOOKS!
You should probably just worry about what you're reading. It'll work out better for you.

[frog]

He not a great writer but hes not a bad one either i could agree tha hes a mediocre writer and there are TONS of writers in the biz that are mediocre and they dont get have the shiznit that Hudlin gets.



Take a gander at an Exiles thread sometime.



Out of curiosity, can someone list all the characters that attended the wedding?

[bluedmighty]

I didn't care about the history, it's good to finally get that out there, but I bought this book based on the solicit, which I remember correctly was what where Wakanda was 20+ years from now and how it got there. Again, my memory could be wrong but I believe that's what it said. That's why I bought the issue, I was hoping to get a glimpse of some plotlines Hudlin was gonna touch upon in upcoming arcs. Instead it felt like a What If One Shot that does nothing for the main ongoing.

I can feel where you're comming from regarding the solicit.

But taken as a stand alone story, this was pretty a good read, and a great first annual.

My problem with this annual, and Hudlin's run, is very early on it became very clear to me that T'Challa will not lose. He won't be maimed. He won't even get a bloody nose.

And when the lead character is never in jeopardy, the conflict is null. And when the conflict is null, the book is dull. It's getting ridiculously stale, to the point where its Hudlin's fan-fiction.

T'challa's been beaten up, and seen his share of difficulty.

Besides, the problem with the Panther runs before this, didn't have The King behaving in a "Kick ass" manner.

And, while "smart" the Preist's Panther seemed O.K. by comparison (just the way my soul feels).


I've seen cosmically powered characters in jeopardy. But not T'Challa. And it's not like he's picking D-Listers to fight every month. From his fanatical bodyguards, to his endless resources and myriad of tech and magical devices, to his entire nation's political might, to his weather goddess of a wife... he's got every angle covered.

Which is AWESOME!!!!!
On paper he's a beast, and should never lose. But that means that his Bad guys have to be just that good to beat him.


Of course, that makes it incredibly boring. Some would compare him to other icons, like Batman or Stark... but come on, Batman gets the crap kicked out of him sometimes. Stark is getting pulled in a billion directions and can't keep up.

Those uys have had YEARS of ass kicking under their belts.
Which is WHY I think Mr. Hudlin's take on the Black Panther is the best one.
Wakanda has always been billed to be the "Atlantis" of Affrica if you will. But no one has ever really tried to show how that's possible.

To avoid the history lesson, Jack Kirby painted the Wakandans kinda like the Amazons, or some other hidden long lost tribe. Back then T'challa was the only in his community to be educated abroad and this was the reason he was so brilliant.

I feel that Priest tried to establish that Wakanda was a mighty Warrior nation by having Zuri (?) give Ross history lessons.

Mr. Hudlin whent back to the beginning and cleared up some of the WTF's.

1) Are these the magical N!&3r$ over the rainbow? How has Wakanda managed to keep people out of their land, remain undefeated, and keep their culture intact?

2) Seeing the Panther whip ass, unappologetically, is refreshing.


Meanwhile, T'Challa's been warned to get home and run his country without any penalty by the village elders for the past year of comics. And who's going to be a threat? Killmonger? PUH-LEASE.


While Hudlins run is the official continuity of the Black Panther, we see him incorperating elements from the characters past incarnations.

That being said, and while reffering to my statement about bad guys, Killmonger is EXACTLY the man to threaten T'challa.

[The Cool Thatguy]

For me this was an excellent read, I had a great two hour conversation last night about this annual, and I'm glad that Reginald Hudlin setup this timeline.

Also we finally get a well thought out explanation as to why Wakanda developed it's non-interference policy as regards to the rest of Africa.

In my opinion this was an excellent read.

I tend to lump Hudlin haters in with the Winick hating mouth breathers, and after reading some of their trollish posts here, I see no reason to update that policy.

If you don't like Hudlin or Winick then DON'T READ THEIR F#CK!NG BOOKS!

Guess that saves you the trouble of actually thinking about any legitmacy of their points. Truly, the moral high ground is yours :p

[XPac]

He not a great writer but hes not a bad one either i could agree tha hes a mediocre writer and there are TONS of writers in the biz that are mediocre and they dont get have the shiznit that Hudlin gets.

People bitch even when the stories are decent!

People keep saying that his writing is bad but what i really hear is the problems people have with the subject matter. Now i could agree that the subject matter isnt always given the treatment that it really desrves but this is a comic. A comic that geared towards people who want to have that type of thing in their stories.

Hudlin gets heat for a variety of reasons, I think.

I think his continuity right off the bat was really bad, so he turned off a lot of readers to his work early on.

I also think Hudlin had a tendency to make BP look good at the expense of other characters. Similiar to Wolverine in the 90's, that sort of writing tends to get a backlash from the fanbase after a while.

And also, I do think some have issues with the subject matter when the writer doesn't choose to be terribly subtle about it.

It's really a combination of issues that makes Hudlin more disliked by some than other writers who are comparably mediocre. Plus, when you have a lot of people that REALLY like the character but really don't like the writer, you end up with people reading a book they don't like and critiising it a lot. If BP was a less popular character, people would just ignore Hudlin and the book and that would be that. But because a lot of people genuinely love the character, it keeps drawing them back even if they don't like Hudlins' writing.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hudlin gets heat for a variety of reasons, I think.

I think his continuity right off the bat was really bad, so he turned off a lot of readers to his work early on.

I also think Hudlin had a tendency to make BP look good at the expense of other characters. Similiar to Wolverine in the 90's, that sort of writing tends to get a backlash from the fanbase after a while.

And also, I do think some have issues with the subject matter when the writer doesn't choose to be terribly subtle about it.

It's really a combination of issues that makes Hudlin more disliked by some than other writers who are comparably mediocre. Plus, when you have a lot of people that REALLY like the character but really don't like the writer, you end up with people reading a book they don't like and critiising it a lot. If BP was a less popular character, people would just ignore Hudlin and the book and that would be that. But because a lot of people genuinely love the character, it keeps drawing them back even if they don't like Hudlins' writing.

Couldn't agree more on the last part.

I'd also add that, given how often Hudlin recycles his narrow plots and themes, it's so surprise that the same complaints keep popping up. It's because it's the same story!

[Jackob]

my problem was it is 2057 right, wouldnt baby cage be 50 years old.
and i didnt like how he made all american heroes a bunch of imperialist dickheads that atack other countrys because they can

[Excelsior]

my problem was it is 2057 right, wouldnt baby cage be 50 years old.
and i didnt like how he made all american heroes a bunch of imperialist dickheads that atack other countrys because they can

Doom has attacked America before, Namor too. So whats so imperialistic about Hudlin having them attack Wakanda??

I think Hudlin's main detractors have a beef with him because of how he wrote white people's dialogue in the first 12 or so issues(unlike minorities who have swallowed bad dialogue and characterizations for years, by Marvel's writers, they cannot stomach it.) Panther beating Cap instantly turned some off.

And they havent forgiven him since.


Proverbs 18:19 An offended man is [harder to reach] [f]than a fortified city,
and quarrels are like the bars of a fortress

[XPac]

Whoops... misread what you wrote there. Nevermind.

[Loren]

Doom has attacked America before, Namor too. So whats so imperialistic about Hudlin having them attack Wakanda??

Hudlin didn't have Doom and Namor attack Wakanda. He had Iron Man and American forces attack Wakanda, after he had a whole squadron of American heroes (Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Spider-Man, Silver Surfer, etc.) attack Latveria and kill Dr. Doom.

The reason given for the heroes going imperialistic on Latveria is because its leader was a supervillain. The reason given for the heroes going imperialistic on Wakanda is because Wakanda has a lot of nice stuff.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Doom has attacked America before, Namor too. So whats so imperialistic about Hudlin having them attack Wakanda??

I think Hudlin's main detractors have a beef with him because of how he wrote white people's dialogue in the first 12 or so issues(unlike minorities who have swallowed bad dialogue and characterizations for years, by Marvel's writers, they cannot stomach it.) Panther beating Cap instantly turned some off.

And they havent forgiven him since.

Doom and Namor have attacked America. Wakanda has not and largely isn't a threat (in terms of likelyhood to attack the U.S.). Thus, attacking them unprovoked is a clear sign of imperialism.

And while I'm sure his first 12 issues turned alot of readers off to his writing, the reasons run alot deeper than 'beating up Cap' and just remembering the first 12 over and over.

We're over 30 issues in, and there's barely a supporting cast, barely any legitmately threatening rogues, and virtually no subplots. Hudlin's recycled the same plot (morally bankrupt villains who envy Wakanda) four times now.

And that's just the big stuff. There's also the dirty pool he pulled with Black Knight, his out-dated symbolism and just plain bad writing.

[Christopher O]

I think Hudlin's main detractors have a beef with him because of how he wrote white people's dialogue in the first 12 or so issues(unlike minorities who have swallowed bad dialogue and characterizations for years, by Marvel's writers, they cannot stomach it.) Panther beating Cap instantly turned some off.

And they havent forgiven him since.
What is it with you guys? How many different ways do the criticisms of Hudlin's work have to be articulated before you accept that they are in fact legitimate criticisms and not some petty, racist grudge?

[Excelsior]

What is it with you guys? How many different ways do the criticisms of Hudlin's work have to be articulated before you accept that they are in fact legitimate criticisms and not some petty, racist grudge?

I never disagreed with your argument. i was stating what I believe is/was the main reason for the hate. That being said, its only my opinion.

I butressed my statement with the countless hoard of bad minority characters and dialogue that I have read over the years. And None of those writers recieved the ire that Hudlin has.

[drwho]

I never disagreed with your argument. i was stating what I believe is/was the main reason for the hate. That being said, its only my opinion.

I butressed my statement with the countless hoard of bad minority characters and dialogue that I have read over the years. And None of those writers recieved the ire that Hudlin has.

The man, Hudlin, is obsessed with putting race in all his stories and I think he uses poor taste when doing it. Many readers don't want to read about race in every story the man writes. That is why I am no longer a reader though I am a fan of Black Panther and I wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the reason this book sells so badly.

[Loren]

The man, Hudlin, is obsessed with putting race in all his stories and I think he uses poor taste when doing it. Many readers don't want to read about race in every story the man writes.

I don't want this to get into another big discussion on race (you'll notice I didn't address race at all in my long post), but I don't think Hudlin is "obsessed" with putting race in. Personally, I suspect that he's just not good at writing conflict, and racial conflict is easy.

For instance, when there was an issue about T'Challa meeting with Doom, there were many rich possibilities for that encounter. One's a long-time Avenger, one's the MU's premier supervillain. Both rule their own sovereign nations. Both are technological prodigies. The conflict between these two should practically write itself. Imagine that scene in the hands of, say, Ed Brubaker. So what kind of character-based conflict does Hudlin employ to when they meet? Doom randomly getting racist.

[Christopher O]

I never disagreed with your argument. i was stating what I believe is/was the main reason for the hate. That being said, its only my opinion.

It's dismissive and can't be substantiated, so why bother? I haven't even read most of the first 12 issues. In those few issues that I did read, I had no more trouble with the portrayal of the white people than I did with the portrayal of the black people.

I butressed my statement with the countless hoard of bad minority characters and dialogue that I have read over the years. And None of those writers recieved the ire that Hudlin has.Like who? Give me an example. You might find that those writers have indeed received ire or are in fact held in poor esteem by Hudlin's detractors. Minorities have been portrayed rather poorly in comic books over the years. I don't think most people would disagree with that. Start a discussion about the portrayal of minorities in comics over the years, and I bet you'd be surprised at the kind of response you'd get. Most people don't like offensive stereotypes and caricatures.

Anyway, I have no problem with the exploration of past racism or the racism that currently exists. I think that subject is completely valid, relevant and deserving of exploration. Honestly, I think Hudlin has some very interesting--if sometimes limited and repetitive--ideas. It's his execution that bothers me.

[XPac]

I don't want this to get into another big discussion on race (you'll notice I didn't address race at all in my long post), but I don't think Hudlin is "obsessed" with putting race in. Personally, I suspect that he's just not good at writing conflict, and racial conflict is easy.

For instance, when there was an issue about T'Challa meeting with Doom, there were many rich possibilities for that encounter. One's a long-time Avenger, one's the MU's premier supervillain. Both rule their own sovereign nations. Both are technological prodigies. The conflict between these two should practically write itself. Imagine that scene in the hands of, say, Ed Brubaker. So what kind of character-based conflict does Hudlin employ to when they meet? Doom randomly getting racist.

Yeah... the Doom encounter was pretty weak. I won't say it's completely out of bounds for Doom to play the race card, it's really the weakest most superficial low brow way I could ever imagine the characters interating.

The confrontation itself was hardly the worst thing I've ever read... but when you consider how potentially cool it could have and should have been, it really breaks your heart.

[Sanctus]

Hudlin's BP is fine. He tells coherent stories in a timely manner while opening up enough issues that will give writers who follow him the chance to explore some avenues not taken. BP, under his pen, is rarely in mortal danger. To me, that makes sense. He is the leader of the most technological country in the world that has been the envy of others for centuries. It only makes sense that the nation's advisors would raise a leader whose major character attribute is to think of all possible dangers to his person or his nation and to devise ways to neutralize them. In many ways, Stark does the same thing via his Iron Man suits, but where as Stark has the resources of say Exxon, BP has the resources of say Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Pre-1991 Iraq combined.

Also, it makes perfect sense for the US to go after Wakanda. Its leader fought against the government during the CW, it is a resource rich and its population is not necessarily infatuated or willing to be subjected to a US dominated world. Though not exactly, we have seen the US take similar stands/actions against Venezuela, Iraq, Chile, the Congo, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Phillipines, Angola and CUBA in the past. I don't fin Hudlin's writing atrocious. I find it adequate and the subject matter timely and laced with nuances that provide an alternative view of the MU and the current global situation as depicted by the US and its dependencies (Western Europe and Canada).

[bluezulu]

I find it most ironic that the more vocal Hudlin critics in a lot of ways work out to be his biggest supporters. There is no way this thread will end up with the 12 or so pages it will with out you. Big thumbs up. We pretty much see this to be the pattern with every issue right?:)

This was a great issue. In the book didn't the frogs mention that this was a possible future out of the many possible futures?

The annual was not what I expected. This was a fun stand alone issue. To the critics of the slave trade story angle answer me this. Take every issue of Hudlin's black panther run out of the equation. Hell for that matter take out Priest's as well. So given Stan Lee's and McGregor's history of Wakanda, how in the hell do you have the most powerful technological advanced nation in the world that happens to sit in Africa yet they allow the slave trade to happen with out so much of a blip of involvment? Oh yea they are xenophobic.:rolleyes: . Xenophobic or not if Nations are being conquered to the left and right of you for no other reason then the labor cost, even if you don't want to get involved wouldn't it be a good idea? Wakanda can provide labor and other resources, that would make them a target to be conqured. I like Hudlin's explanation of the minimal engagement then long term solution.

[XPac]

I find it most ironic that the more vocal Hudlin critics in a lot of ways work out to be his biggest supporters. There is no way this thread will end up with the 12 or so pages it will with out you. Big thumbs up. We pretty much see this to be the pattern with every issue right?:)



Like I said in an earlier post, that's what happens when you like the character even if you dislike the writer.

If many of the Hudlin critics didn't have a genuine appreciation for the character, they could easily ignore both Hudlin and his book. The fact that people will discuss the character for 12+ pages shows that they do care and support the charater, even if they don't like Hudlin.

It's not really THAT ironic... everyone has a character they love being written by someone they don't like sooner or later. It's kinda like when Chuck Austen wrote the Avengers... as much as I loved the Avengers, I just wasn't a happy camper.

[bluezulu]

No, it is ironic that even with the criticism they still manage to read and participate in discussions that keep this book out in the forefront no matter the numbers. With every multiple page thread I read one poster who states they tried the book based off of what they read here or other boards.

The Black Panther
Ms. Marvel
Runaways?
Cable
Deadpool
Cable & Deadpool
New Warriors

All of these book sale at around the same level. None of them generate the amount of passion and discussion. The book will be here for a while. Hopefully when Hudlin's run end, it won't mean that the book will either and Marvel will listen to some of your request for a new writer once Hudlin leaves. However I doubt it unlike insert your favorite writer here:______, Hudlin does not need the check from Marvel so I bet that factors in to one of the reasons this book continues on despite the numbers. I think Hudlin mentioned he looses money writing the book. Say what you want but that is love for the character and the art form.

[Yaw]

meh

not much more I really want to say.

nice art.

[Loren]

In the book didn't the frogs mention that this was a possible future out of the many possible futures?

Yep. That was in the framing sequence for the other framing sequence.

The annual was not what I expected.

I doubt it was what anyone expected, given how little it resembled the story solicited.

To the critics of the slave trade story angle answer me this. Take every issue of Hudlin's black panther run out of the equation. Hell for that matter take out Priest's as well. So given Stan Lee's and McGregor's history of Wakanda, how in the hell do you have the most powerful technological advanced nation in the world that happens to sit in Africa yet they allow the slave trade to happen with out so much of a blip of involvment?

That's easy: because if we're taking Hudlin's issues out of the equation, then Wakanda wasn't the most powerful technological advanced nation in the world. Hudlin was the one who changed it so that Wakanda was always ahead of everyone else; all previous incarnations of Wakanda portrayed it as being historically isolationist and warrior-ish, but not powerful or technologically advanced. The pre-Hudlin Wakanda had no greater reason to interfere in the slave trade than the multitude of real-world African nations that didn't interfere in the slave trade. To the extent that there's a historical hole that needed to be filled, it was Hudlin that dug it in the first place.

Xenophobic or not if Nations are being conquered to the left and right of you for no other reason then the labor cost, even if you don't want to get involved wouldn't it be a good idea?

As I pointed out previously, the European slave trade didn't happen at the same time Europe conquered Africa. The US and England both banned the slave trade by 1808. The *last* country to ban the Atlantic slave trade was Brazil in 1831.

Meanwhile, the European conquest of Africa didn't really begin in earnest until the 1880s. There were a handful of earlier colonization efforts (US in Liberia, France in Algeria), but the serious European rush for Africa (as depicted in the issue) didn't happen until half a century after the slave trade ended.

I like Hudlin's explanation of the minimal engagement then long term solution.

I'll admit I liked that. I wasn't as sold on the notion of 'Wakanda has spies everywhere,' but the low-profile retaliation was a neat idea.

[XPac]

No, it is ironic that even with the criticism they still manage to read and participate in discussions that keep this book out in the forefront no matter the numbers. With every multiple page thread I read one poster who states they tried the book based off of what they read here or other boards.

The Black Panther
Ms. Marvel
Runaways?
Cable
Deadpool
Cable & Deadpool
New Warriors

All of these book sale at around the same level. None of them generate the amount of passion and discussion. The book will be here for a while. Hopefully when Hudlin's run end, it won't mean that the book will either and Marvel will listen to some of your request for a new writer once Hudlin leaves. However I doubt it unlike insert your favorite writer here:______, Hudlin does not need the check from Marvel so I bet that factors in to one of the reasons this book continues on despite the numbers. I think Hudlin mentioned he looses money writing the book. Say what you want but that is love for the character and the art form.

The BP threads do definately generate more passion than most.

And I think there are reasons for that. They do bring in racial and on occasion political issues that most other books do not... that will automatically generate more disussion (and potential heat).

Heat by itself isn't a bad thing of course, as long as it translates into greater interest and sales for the character.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The BP threads do definately generate more passion than most.

And I think there are reasons for that. They do bring in racial and on occasion political issues that most other books do not... that will automatically generate more disussion (and potential heat).

Seriously. You'd think that would be common sense, like yelling 'Fire!' in a movie theater. It takes no effort to do, really.

[bluezulu]

I don't think Hudlin introduced the fact that they were always technologically advanced, it has been that way since Wakanda was first introduced. Wait I think we are saying two different things. Wakanda has always been shown to be advanced to us, however you are saying IN story they were only made advanced after Tchala studied at Oxford AND then made Wakanda in the span of what 10 years top, surpass every nation on earth? I think this is one of the better changes that Hudlin made. It makes more sense for Wakanda to always have been an advanced warrior culture then to have been butt naked and savage until they guess right about the strange mound of Ore. Tchalla's father then on a hunch sends him to EUROPE to get civilized and then...then they can surpass in a decade what some countries have not been able to do in eons. Hey I love StanMcgregorPriest as much as yall but that seems to be far fetch even for a comic book.

[bluezulu]

Seriously. You'd think that would be common sense, like yelling 'Fire!' in a movie theater. It takes no effort to do, really.

------------------
I mean you don't have to like Hudlin or his writing but there is no need to insult fans of the book by saying we only buy it because of the racial/political commentary. Why we can't just be fans of the character and or the writer? I mean however valid your points on the book are how come it just can't be that 25 to 55k people enjoy this book? Those statements just to make them or win an argument turns me off to any type of discussion with you. I mean come on what makes more sense me posting in a forum because I like a character, book and writer or you because you hate the book and writer? Am I or Hudlin yelling fire in a theater or are you? 25k read the book faithfully and enjoy it, far less then that hate it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

------------------
I mean you don't have to like Hudlin or his writing but there is no need to insult fans of the book by saying we only buy it because of the racial/political commentary. Why we can't just be fans of the character and or the writer? I mean however valid your points on the book are how come it just can't be that 25 to 55k people enjoy this book? Those statements just to make them or win an argument turns me off to any type of discussion with you. I mean come on what makes more sense me posting in a forum because I like a character, book and writer or you because you hate the book and writer? Am I or Hudlin yelling fire in a theater or are you? 25k read the book faithfully and enjoy it, far less then that hate it.

I never said you or anyone else liked it because of the racial commentary (though I'm certain it appeals to some. Something appeals to everyone, and I mean that about everything).

Rather, you were extolling the fact that Hudlin seemingly gets rise out of his detractors, (though sometimes this is an example of skill, I wouldn't call it such in this instance) as if it were a virtue.

I was simply pointing out that, using the material in the heavy handed manner that he does, such a reaction should be expected.

[bluedmighty]

That's easy: because if we're taking Hudlin's issues out of the equation, then Wakanda wasn't the most powerful technological advanced nation in the world. Hudlin was the one who changed it so that Wakanda was always ahead of everyone else; all previous incarnations of Wakanda portrayed it as being historically isolationist and warrior-ish, but not powerful or technologically advanced. The pre-Hudlin Wakanda had no greater reason to interfere in the slave trade than the multitude of real-world African nations that didn't interfere in the slave trade. To the extent that there's a historical hole that needed to be filled, it was Hudlin that dug it in the first place.

While we have different points of view, and your entitled to you opinion,
I don't think that's a fair assesment.

Jack Kirby and many after him portreyed Wakanda as a sort of Savage Land meets Atlantis kind of thing. T'challa was the only one who studied abroad, and apparently that's where all the high tech came from. Kirby also made it seem like the Wakandans were backward/premitive people who didn't understand the value of the great mound.

The problem with this is:

In the world that we live in, how is it possible that you still exist?

Once it was descovered that you were sitting on one of the most precious and rare metals on the planet, what would stop other countries from comming and taking it from you?

Where were you during the slave trade? Since you've never been conqured or colonized?

As far as I know, Priest was the first person to try and establish that Wakanda was a mighty nation because of the Panther's that came before T'challa. These were given to us via verbal accounts from Zuri (?)


The problem with this was that it was second hand, and worked in s a gag/complaining poin for Ross. Did Priest ever show what "Old" Wakanda looked like?

Mr. Hudlin from day 1, has shown Wakanda to be a feirce warrior nation.

These guys had a Ghost legend, I.e. "Don't F' with Wakanda".

I loved the "Boule' " scene, where the sellouts and consorters were talking about possible sources of the terrorism.

They didn't even want to say his name. They didn't want to tell their "partners" because then they woul be sent in there and killed.

They were terrified.

As it should be.


As I pointed out previously, the European slave trade didn't happen at the same time Europe conquered Africa. The US and England both banned the slave trade by 1808. The *last* country to ban the Atlantic slave trade was Brazil in 1831.

Meanwhile, the European conquest of Africa didn't really begin in earnest until the 1880s. There were a handful of earlier colonization efforts (US in Liberia, France in Algeria), but the serious European rush for Africa (as depicted in the issue) didn't happen until half a century after the slave trade ended.

You are correct.

I took it as a medly, and I think what we were shown were the handful of earlier efforts.



I'll admit I liked that. I wasn't as sold on the notion of 'Wakanda has spies everywhere,' but the low-profile retaliation was a neat idea.

Agreed.

But I found the use of spies great, and it fit with the instory explination that Wakanda started buying Slaves and sending them to Wakanda. This could be where those spies came from.

[bluedmighty]

Also,

No one has answered my earlier question:

Is this the first time King Solomon has been seen in a Marvel Comic?

[Loren]

I don't think Hudlin introduced the fact that they were always technologically advanced, it has been that way since Wakanda was first introduced.

Nope, it was Hudlin (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=22839): "The basic tenet of the character is that there is this African nation named Wakanda and they have this amazing super-science. So I said why do they have this amazing super-science? They have it because they were always more advanced then the rest of the world."

Wait I think we are saying two different things. Wakanda has always been shown to be advanced to us, however you are saying IN story they were only made advanced after Tchala studied at Oxford AND then made Wakanda in the span of what 10 years top, surpass every nation on earth?

I'd also point out that "surpassing every nation on earth" is ALSO a change of Hudlin's. Priest and prior, Wakanda's technological advancement was largely limited to its capital city and its military. It was no utopia, and the country on the whole was not some pinnacle of civilization under either MacGregor or Priest (and prior to them, Wakanda itself wasn't fleshed out all that much).

I think this is one of the better changes that Hudlin made.

And I'm on record as saying that utopias are really boring, and poor conduits for good storytelling. And that a fiercely isolationist country is the least likely candidate to vault ahead of the pack technologically and stay there.

It makes more sense for Wakanda to always have been an advanced warrior culture then to have been butt naked and savage until they guess right about the strange mound of Ore.

"Butt naked and savage" is an astonishingly offensive and ignorant description of pre-colonization Africa. If a white guy described Africans that way, I'd peg him as a bigot.

[bluezulu]

Nope, it was Hudlin (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=22839): "The basic tenet of the character is that there is this African nation named Wakanda and they have this amazing super-science. So I said why do they have this amazing super-science? They have it because they were always more advanced then the rest of the world."



I'd also point out that "surpassing every nation on earth" is ALSO a change of Hudlin's. Priest and prior, Wakanda's technological advancement was largely limited to its capital city and its military. It was no utopia, and the country on the whole was not some pinnacle of civilization under either MacGregor or Priest (and prior to them, Wakanda itself wasn't fleshed out all that much).



And I'm on record as saying that utopias are really boring, and poor conduits for good storytelling. And that a fiercely isolationist country is the least likely candidate to vault ahead of the pack technologically and stay there.



"Butt naked and savage" is an astonishingly offensive and ignorant description of pre-colonization Africa. If a white guy described Africans that way, I'd peg him as a bigot.

-----------------

Butt naked and savage was me being sarcastic. In the series Panther Prey we were given the most insightful look at Wakanda to date. In that series Wakanda's advance nature was highlighted but also the westernization of it as well. There was a scene that showed a pizzeria in Wakanda. Go back in read Panther's Prey, my whole beef with the series was that on one hand you had this perfect black utopia then McGregor chooses to place crack in Wakanda. To me the message wasn't no matter how advanced a society is, it still cant escape the ills of the world. No I just took offense to crack in Wakanda.

[Loren]

-----------------

Butt naked and savage was me being sarcastic. In the series Panther Prey we were given the most insightful look at Wakanda to date. In that series Wakanda's advance nature was highlighted but also the westernization of it as well. There was a scene that showed a pizzeria in Wakanda. Go back in read Panther's Prey, my whole beef with the series was that on one hand you had this perfect black utopia then McGregor chooses to place crack in Wakanda. To me the message wasn't no matter how advanced a society is, it still cant escape the ills of the world. No I just took offense to crack in Wakanda.

Yeah, I'm not even going to attempt to defend the crack thing. I can get behind the general theme (escaping the ills of the world), but making it a drug story drips of '80s after-school-specialism, and making it specifically crack just adds insult to injury.

[DaeJi]

-----------------

Butt naked and savage was me being sarcastic. In the series Panther Prey we were given the most insightful look at Wakanda to date. In that series Wakanda's advance nature was highlighted but also the westernization of it as well. There was a scene that showed a pizzeria in Wakanda. Go back in read Panther's Prey, my whole beef with the series was that on one hand you had this perfect black utopia then McGregor chooses to place crack in Wakanda. To me the message wasn't no matter how advanced a society is, it still cant escape the ills of the world. No I just took offense to crack in Wakanda.

So it's a bad thing that Wakanda isn't a perfect society? I agree with Loren, utopia is boring. Having T'Challa as the perfect king with the perfect land is boring. There's no conflict there. Having a troubled king rule over a country torn apart with conflict is sooooooooo much more interesting.

[Loren]

So it's a bad thing that Wakanda isn't a perfect society? I agree with Loren, utopia is boring. Having T'Challa as the perfect king with the perfect land is boring. There's no conflict there. Having a troubled king rule over a country torn apart with conflict is sooooooooo much more interesting.

This is the same reason why Aquaman stories are so much more interesting when Atlantis/Poseidonis isn't a happy, wonderful place to live. When there's internal conflict, the king can actually do kingly things. A writer can always inject external conflict by having someone attack Atlantis (which writers do, rather frequently), but the 'Atlantis Gets Attacked by Outside Villain/Nation' plot gets really stale when it's done for the umpteenth time.

It's a very simple Silver Agey setup to have Atlantis be a paradise that's constantly under outside attack, but never seems to suffer lasting harm as a result.

[XPac]

This is the same reason why Aquaman stories are so much more interesting when Atlantis/Poseidonis isn't a happy, wonderful place to live. When there's internal conflict, the king can actually do kingly things. A writer can always inject external conflict by having someone attack Atlantis (which writers do, rather frequently), but the 'Atlantis Gets Attacked by Outside Villain/Nation' plot gets really stale when it's done for the umpteenth time.

It's a very simple Silver Agey setup to have Atlantis be a paradise that's constantly under outside attack, but never seems to suffer lasting harm as a result.

That's a good point. Maybe if there was a bit of actual conflict in Wakanda, BP and Storm would actually bother spending 2 seconds there rather than battling skrull zombies in outer space.

[Xero]

I find it most ironic that the more vocal Hudlin critics in a lot of ways work out to be his biggest supporters. There is no way this thread will end up with the 12 or so pages it will with out you. Big thumbs up. We pretty much see this to be the pattern with every issue right?:)....

You are so on the money, I first saw this pattern during Christopher Priest's (Jim Owsley) run when poster's back then were basically saying the same things about him. The detractor's were always the biggest boosters and the threads they created always brought in new readers.

[StoneGold]

You are so on the money, I first saw this pattern during Christopher Priest's (Jim Owsley) run when poster's back then were basically saying the same things about him. The detractor's were always the biggest boosters and the threads they created always brought in new readers.

Priest had detractors?



I thought the only people reading the books were the 50 or so of us in love with it.


And notice I included myself in the mix there.

[Sanctus]

So it's a bad thing that Wakanda isn't a perfect society? I agree with Loren, utopia is boring. Having T'Challa as the perfect king with the perfect land is boring. There's no conflict there. Having a troubled king rule over a country torn apart with conflict is sooooooooo much more interesting.


BP should be the perfect king and Wakanda should be the perfect land. The conflict could come about when other nations try to make Wakanda conform to their ideals when BP already knows that Wakanda is more advance, technologically, economically, socially and spiritually than any other place on Earth. I like the idea of outside forces being the subversive that are trying to break down paradise. It is even somewhat reflective of history since most of Egypt/Kush history shoes that conflict and real periods of suffering in their history came with the invasion of Hyksos, Assyrians, Hittites, etc from Europe and the Middle-East.

[TonyJaymz03]

dumb, dumb, dumb issue

i miss Priest's Black Panther sooooo much

can we get a new writer? Please?

[Excelsior]

Well, the owner of my LCS just told me they have sold out of the annual, and his other locations have as well.

[TonyJaymz03]

BP should be the perfect king and Wakanda should be the perfect land.

why should that be? And if so, that just leads to a boring, unrealistic (yeah, i know comic but still) series. The Wakandans are human, which means there is going to be greed, envy, crime, etc. inside the country...no country is perfect, and every time a literary country is written as such...its boring.

I'm not saying make Wakanda a drug filled, broken country, but to say that it should be perfect....come on

[The Cool Thatguy]

You are so on the money, I first saw this pattern during Christopher Priest's (Jim Owsley) run when poster's back then were basically saying the same things about him. The detractor's were always the biggest boosters and the threads they created always brought in new readers.

...I started reading the series because of the praise it drew on the comicboards Black Panther forum. I fail to see how 'poorly executing storylines with possible racial subtext' is a draw for anyone.

[Excelsior]

...I started reading the series because of the praise it drew on the comicboards Black Panther forum. I fail to see how 'poorly executing storylines with possible racial subtext' is a draw for anyone.

I think for a character like Panther you cannot focus entirely on sales. Preists series was excellent but it was also a low seller. The Jungle action stories written by McGregor same thing. The excellent mini-series written by Peter Gillis and drawn by Denys Cowan, and the McDuffie prestige format Panther stories--all sold under the quality of the work.

I like the fact that the Panther is an Outsider, it reminds me of early Wolverine. But I do not wish to see panther cancelled.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think for a character liek Panther you cannot focus entirely on sales. Preists series was excellent but it was also a low seller. The Jungle action stories written by McGregor same thing. The excellent mini-series written by Peter Gillis and drawn by Denys Cowan, and the McDuffie prestige format Panther stories--all sold under the quality of the work.

I like the fact that the Panther is an Outsider, it reminds me of early Wolverine.

I agree...but as I've stated elsewhere, Hudlin's writing doesn't impress me.

Sales is not the sole deciding factor in quality, but it can be telling, IMO. Especially in straight forward books, which Hudlin's Panther most certainly is.

[DaeJi]

BP should be the perfect king and Wakanda should be the perfect land.

Why? What is so interesting about a hero with no flaws? The only characters who should be perfect are villains. Wakanda is dull. A story involving an invasion would be dull, since under Hublin's pen the country is so far ahead of anything else that it's unbeatable. It's a crappy story situation, stories are built off conflict. The more things going wrong, the better.

[Excelsior]

The man, Hudlin, is obsessed with putting race in all his stories and I think he uses poor taste when doing it. Many readers don't want to read about race in every story the man writes. That is why I am no longer a reader though I am a fan of Black Panther and I wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the reason this book sells so badly.

Scans from a previous Panther limited series--Race issues and all--so thats nothing new.
Out of curiosity I have to ask, to what extent have all the posters on this thread read Panther adventures?? How far back have you guys been reading panther??

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/panther1-1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/panther2.jpg

[The Cool Thatguy]

IIRC, that mini was released in the 80s, when South American Apartheid was a relevent issue (less so now, but that's the sliding time scale for ya).

Hudlin used Cold War, colonization and crusades symbolism and had it set in the modern day. Hudlin was at least a decade late to actually being relevent with his symbolism.

So yeah, those scans are like comparing apples to other really, really old and moldy apples. One's done with vastly more skill than the other.

[Excelsior]

IIRC, that mini was released in the 80s, when South American Apartheid was a relevent issue (less so now, but that's the sliding time scale for ya).

Hudlin used Cold War, colonization and crusades symbolism and had it set in the modern day. Hudlin was at least a decade late to actually being relevent with his symbolism.

So yeah, those scans are like comparing apples to other really, really old and moldy apples. One's done with vastly more skill than the other.

Well I keep up with politics in south africa and you know what it hasnt changed much. But, I was trying to show the one poster that race has always been an issue in the Panther titles.

Unfortunatly, racism is an old and moldy orange that doesnt seem to want to die or go away.

[bluedmighty]

OK.

I'll take a different approach, and explain why I love his Wakanda and why it's Utopian facade does the opposite of bore me:

'ish is F'd up out here man.

This whole series is a wonderful fairytale based on a group of advanced African People who were left alone to develop untouched by the western world or their european counterparts.

I don't need to see problems in Wakanda. I got problems in VA. :D

Does that mean that Wakanda shouldn't face it's share of hard times?

NO.

But, for all intents and purposes, I need for the default to be "Utopian".

Not to mention the guy is a Genious King. Bred from birth to be a Warrior, and to think like a King. As far as I can tell ALL of the Panthers were great in their own rights.

To be honest why we haven't seen this type of Black Panther BEFORE Hudlin is beyond me.

On paper, T'challa is Cap+Iron Man+Doom+Nick Fury+Dare Devil.

To write him as less than AWESOME is a diservice.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well I keep up with politics in south africa and you know what it hasnt changed much. But, I was trying to show the one poster that race has always been an issue in the Panther titles.

Unfortunatly, racism is an old and moldy orange that doesnt seem to want to die or go away.

I'm pretty sure they outlawed and dismantled the institutional apartheid system ;)

Racism does die hard. But global politics evolve and change. The Cold War's over and the challenges facing Africa are (largely, but not completely) different from what they faced decades ago.

Honestly, I think Hudlin using a Russian Radioactive Man instead of a Chinese one, given China's spoiler role in Darfur and other places in Africa, hilights his ignorance of international politics beyond his little bubble.

Race has been a constant in Black Panther, I agree. But mixing race with ignirance is always a bad combo and the writer will deserve to catch hell for it.

[XPac]

OK.

I'll take a different approach, and explain why I love his Wakanda and why it's Utopian facade does the opposite of bore me:

'ish is F'd up out here man.

This whole series is a wonderful fairytale based on a group of advanced African People who were left alone to develop untouched by the western world or their european counterparts.

I don't need to see problems in Wakanda. I got problems in VA. :D

Does that mean that Wakanda shouldn't face it's share of hard times?

NO.

But, for all intents and purposes, I need for the default to be "Utopian".

Not to mention the guy is a Genious King. Bred from birth to be a Warrior, and to think like a King. As far as I can tell ALL of the Panthers were great in their own rights.

To be honest why we haven't seen this type of Black Panther BEFORE Hudlin is beyond me.

On paper, T'challa is Cap+Iron Man+Doom+Nick Fury+Dare Devil.

To write him as less than AWESOME is a diservice.

I think you're working on the assumptiong that the Panther is a DC character.

That's the part that Priest got but Hudlin didn't. You can be awesome (Priest BP was that in spades), yet still flawed.

[The Cool Thatguy]

OK.

I'll take a different approach, and explain why I love his Wakanda and why it's Utopian facade does the opposite of bore me:

'ish is F'd up out here man.

This whole series is a wonderful fairytale based on a group of advanced African People who were left alone to develop untouched by the western world or their european counterparts.

I don't need to see problems in Wakanda. I got problems in VA. :D

Does that mean that Wakanda shouldn't face it's share of hard times?

NO.

But, for all intents and purposes, I need for the default to be "Utopian".

Not to mention the guy is a Genious King. Bred from birth to be a Warrior, and to think like a King. As far as I can tell ALL of the Panthers were great in their own rights.

To be honest why we haven't seen this type of Black Panther BEFORE Hudlin is beyond me.

On paper, T'challa is Cap+Iron Man+Doom+Nick Fury+Dare Devil.

To write him as less than AWESOME is a diservice.

As an aside, I honestly fail to see how Hudlin writes Panther as awesome. Panther's bad guys are chumps, he stole the signature weapon of a signature character using dirty pool (in the writing sense) and Hudlin took away Panther's greatest scientific accomplishment, making Wakanda an uber advanced nation by himself.

What exactly is bad ass about Hudlin's Panther?

[Sanctus]

why should that be? And if so, that just leads to a boring, unrealistic (yeah, i know comic but still) series. The Wakandans are human, which means there is going to be greed, envy, crime, etc. inside the country...no country is perfect, and every time a literary country is written as such...its boring.

I'm not saying make Wakanda a drug filled, broken country, but to say that it should be perfect....come on

I explain why it should be in the rest of my earlier post. A society can be perfect and still make for dynamic stories becaue of its interactions with other societies. It does not mean that Wakanda needs to win every battle, but it needs to win the war.

[Sanctus]

IIRC, that mini was released in the 80s, when South American Apartheid was a relevent issue (less so now, but that's the sliding time scale for ya).

Hudlin used Cold War, colonization and crusades symbolism and had it set in the modern day. Hudlin was at least a decade late to actually being relevent with his symbolism.

So yeah, those scans are like comparing apples to other really, really old and moldy apples. One's done with vastly more skill than the other.

Iraq, Corporation in Sierre Leone, Haiti, the Russians in Chechna, China in Tibet, India and Pakistan in Kashmir. Imperialism is still going strong.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Iraq, Corporation in Sierre Leone, Haiti, the Russians in Chechna, China in Tibet, India and Pakistan in Kashmir. Imperialism is still going strong.

I don't recall saying imperialism was over. I said the Cold War is over. Big difference.

[XPac]

I explain why it should be in the rest of my earlier post. A society can be perfect and still make for dynamic stories becaue of its interactions with other societies. It does not mean that Wakanda needs to win every battle, but it needs to win the war.

ANd that's exactly why we get no stories with BP actually in Wakanda. Its perfect... and boring. Hence him largely spending his time in the imperfect where the writer can actually tell a story.

Once the writer decides to create problems in Wakanda is around the time BP will actually bother spending some time there.

[Sanctus]

I don't recall saying imperialism was over. I said the Cold War is over. Big difference.

I mentioned Imperialism because what Hudlin writes is closer to dealing with Imperialism than the cold war. also, can't really say that the Cold War is over when the US still does not have formal relations with Cuba because it is Communist and see China as one of it major, potentially on real state, rivals. And the US has terrible relations with North Korea. The fronts have changed, though tensions with Russia, the successor to the Soviet Union has been rising, but the Cold War is not over. Again, however, Hudlin deals more with imperialism than the Cold War.

[Sanctus]

ANd that's exactly why we get no stories with BP actually in Wakanda. Its perfect... and boring. Hence him largely spending his time in the imperfect where the writer can actually tell a story.

Once the writer decides to create problems in Wakanda is around the time BP will actually bother spending some time there.

The problems can be external threats infiltrating Wakanda (much like the Red Skull and Lukin infiltrating the US in Captain America). The problems do not have to be Wakandan in origin.

[worstblogever]

Agreed with everyone pointing out the lack of a flaw in T'Challa. He's boring, because he's so perfect, there's no way to relate to him. Any other hero has moments of anger, moments of fear, moments of insecurity. T'Challa doesn't have one, save perhaps pride or cockiness, but at the same time, he's often portrayed as a humble king.

Saying that knowing he's gonna win every week because he's a bad*ss on paper is a terrible argument. Because the Silver Surfer wields the power cosmic, and yet he manages to still be imperiled within at least half the stories he's contained. Superman still is put in places where either himself, or someone he dearly cares about has their life on the line. Every issue of Black Panther I pick up, including this one, I doubt he'll end up more than bruised, if that.

I watched the whole of the U.S. show up in Wakanda to beat them down. The whole country. And not for a second, was I worried T'Challa might lose. It was a forgone conclusion. Predictable. And... that's the way it's been. I mean, Storm and T'Challa took on the entire Inhuman nation during their honeymoon, too.

There's no suspense. No passion. It's flat, stale, and dull. If it is exciting, or there is a life and death situation from Hudlin's run I'm not remembering, feel free to cite some examples. Because this issue, along with the past twelve, ain't had it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I mentioned Imperialism because what Hudlin writes is closer to dealing with Imperialism than the cold war. also, can't really say that the Cold War is over when the US still does not have formal relations with Cuba because it is Communist and see China as one of it major, potentially on real state, rivals. And the US has terrible relations with North Korea. The fronts have changed, though tensions with Russia, the successor to the Soviet Union has been rising, but the Cold War is not over. Again, however, Hudlin deals more with imperialism than the Cold War.

That's another debate. Some of the ramifications of the Cold War still linger (Cuba and Norh Korea, for example), but Russia is nowhere near the creature nor threat it used to be.

Regardless, Hudlin used clear colonization and Cold War symbolism under the cover of modern politics in his first arc. It was an amazing display of ignorance and a major reason why he got off with readers on the wrong foot.

Even conceding that he writes about imperialism, he doesn't do it in any relevent way.

[dagonbeer]

There's no suspense. No passion. It's flat, stale, and dull. If it is exciting, or there is a life and death situation from Hudlin's run I'm not remembering, feel free to cite some examples. Because this issue, along with the past twelve, ain't had it.

Not to mention that Huldin feels the need to put down other characters to make BP look good. Let's see, in 28 issues we have:

Cap (who didn't lose to BP in Priest's original story -- they parted on mutual respect. Nope, Huldin has to have BP win in a fight)
Iron man
Sabertooth
Black Widow
Bunch of Inhumans
Doom
Iron Fist
The most worst X-men outing ever, feat. Wolverine

It might have been fine if they weren't all portrayed as rank amateurs, or if the fights were interesting, but they were all of the "One Punch, haha I'm so much better than you" variety.

And apparently all non-Wakandian earth heroes turn into mass murderers circa 2050.

[Jackob]

It might have been fine if they weren't all portrayed as rank amateurs, or if the fights were interesting, but they were all of the "One Punch, haha I'm so much better than you" variety.

And apparently all non-Wakandian earth heroes turn into mass murderers circa 2050.

i know, it is like no mater how good they are they dont even get a punch in. they never have the panther on the ropes or get the upper hand.

and spiderman invading countrys with a bunch of other heroes. no that is not how it would go down. i could see them all going after doom, but all the heroes going after a country ruled by an avenger? no that would not go down.

it was just an excuse to show that the panther is beter than everyone combinded.

[Dr. Chaos]

Anybody know when Hudlin is going to have The Hulk job to the Black Panther?

Thanks in advance.

[XPac]

Anybody know when Hudlin is going to have The Hulk job to the Black Panther?

Thanks in advance.

Probably around the next time Galactus shows up.

[Excelsior]

Not to mention that Huldin feels the need to put down other characters to make BP look good. Let's see, in 28 issues we have:

Cap (who didn't lose to BP in Priest's original story -- they parted on mutual respect. Nope, Huldin has to have BP win in a fight)
Iron man
Sabertooth
Black Widow
Bunch of Inhumans
Doom
Iron Fist
The most worst X-men outing ever, feat. Wolverine

It might have been fine if they weren't all portrayed as rank amateurs, or if the fights were interesting, but they were all of the "One Punch, haha I'm so much better than you" variety.

And apparently all non-Wakandian earth heroes turn into mass murderers circa 2050.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Panther3.jpg



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/BlackPantherSmoking440.jpg

[XPac]

Not to mention that Huldin feels the need to put down other characters to make BP look good. Let's see, in 28 issues we have:

Cap (who didn't lose to BP in Priest's original story -- they parted on mutual respect. Nope, Huldin has to have BP win in a fight)
Iron man
Sabertooth
Black Widow
Bunch of Inhumans
Doom
Iron Fist
The most worst X-men outing ever, feat. Wolverine

It might have been fine if they weren't all portrayed as rank amateurs, or if the fights were interesting, but they were all of the "One Punch, haha I'm so much better than you" variety.

And apparently all non-Wakandian earth heroes turn into mass murderers circa 2050.

The thing that a lot of writers don't understand is that when you badly job out a character, you make them look worse than better.

The BP armbar on Surfer (which is all fairness was McDuffie's fault rather than Hudlins) illustrates that pretty clearly. Though I'm sure some fans liked it, I think a good percentage of the readers franky was bothered by it more than anything else. Rather than making BP look cooler, it was frankly something for people to critize the character more.

You can make someone look good without the other person looking bad. A lot of writers failed to do that with Wolverine in the 90's (and Batgod got a bit of that at times too), and it created a preditable backlash against the character. It's a shame a lot of BP writers aren't noticing that it's happening with BP right now... or maybe they don't care. But the difference is that Wolverine and Batman is so ridiculously popular, they can handle a backlash from the readers. BP doesn't have an uber large fan base as it is, so he's less capable of taking it while still thriving as a character.

[SquidSquod]

OK.
I don't need to see problems in Wakanda. I got problems in VA. :D

On paper, T'challa is Cap+Iron Man+Doom+Nick Fury+Dare Devil.

To write him as less than AWESOME is a diservice.

Just tell you need a fantasy reading to make you forget of real life, dreaming of a utopian that will never come. BP is not Lord Savior; he's just a made up character. If you want to create a real utopia then throw your comic books down, do something tangible to your community, and be more inclusive to all sort of human being.

I pray BP someday gets written by another writer (Asian perhaps), and writes how BP grace without being exclusive.

[Kizz]

I completely agree with the posters who are saying that Tchalla should be perfect.

His nation should be perfect. I also believe in the upcoming storylines, that perfection is about to be tested.

And hudlin is going to show even more how perfect Tchalla is by having him overcome all the trials that are going to come with someone trying to overthrow him from wihtin.

I'm in Dallas, and i got it hard here too bruh! *black power fist to ya*

I remember reading this issue today and smiling to myself knowing that the caucasians were gonna be maaaaaaaaaaad about this. I called my best friend in houston.

'did u read BP yet?"

"no. what happened? ha ha"

"The caucasians are gonna be maaaaaaaaad"

I like how the story went and was written today. I like it comeing from Storm. I didnt like how short it was!

I wanted more! Show me more how great Wakanda is! I love how Hudlin has changed Wakanda into something that's kinda giving the flavor that, "this is the way it's always been"

And as a black man i'm GLAD he finally addressed why Wakanda didn't step in and stop the slave trade.

America's imperialistic ways make perfect sense to me in them attacking Wakanda, again and again and again. And always trying to find ways to subvert wakanada.

Destabilize it. Seek to control it and destroy it's native people. As has been westerners ways with every natural peoples on the planet with a valuble resource.

I stand by Hudlin. i don't knock the people who don't like it. One of the key things i BELIEVE in. "EVERYTHING ISN'T FOR EVERYBODY"

This book? I believe is one of those things that isn't for everybody.

Hopefully those who feel me? FEEL ME. With what i'm sayin here.

[worstblogever]

I completely agree with the posters who are saying that Tchalla should be perfect.

His nation should be perfect. I also believe in the upcoming storylines, that perfection is about to be tested.

And hudlin is going to show even more how perfect Tchalla is by having him overcome all the trials that are going to come with someone trying to overthrow him from wihtin.

I'm in Dallas, and i got it hard here too bruh! *black power fist to ya*

I remember reading this issue today and smiling to myself knowing that the caucasians were gonna be maaaaaaaaaaad about this. I called my best friend in houston.

'did u read BP yet?"

"no. what happened? ha ha"

"The caucasians are gonna be maaaaaaaaad"

I like how the story went and was written today. I like it comeing from Storm. I didnt like how short it was!

I wanted more! Show me more how great Wakanda is! I love how Hudlin has changed Wakanda into something that's kinda giving the flavor that, "this is the way it's always been"

And as a black man i'm GLAD he finally addressed why Wakanda didn't step in and stop the slave trade.

America's imperialistic ways make perfect sense to me in them attacking Wakanda, again and again and again. And always trying to find ways to subvert wakanada.

Destabilize it. Seek to control it and destroy it's native people. As has been westerners ways with every natural peoples on the planet with a valuble resource.

I stand by Hudlin. i don't knock the people who don't like it. One of the key things i BELIEVE in. "EVERYTHING ISN'T FOR EVERYBODY"

This book? I believe is one of those things that isn't for everybody.

Hopefully those who feel me? FEEL ME. With what i'm sayin here.

I love the assumption everyone who