Batman #674

[Agent_Torpor]

Great issue. And Bat-Mite in spades here...

But seriously, Morrison's arc is coming together big time in this issue, after a relatively-tame story last issue.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I thought it was a fantastic issue, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it on here.

Both the art & writing were great, I'd consider this Morrison's best work on Batman so far.

[Agent_Torpor]

I thought it was a fantastic issue, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it on here.

Both the art & writing were great, I'd consider this Morrison's best work on Batman so far.

I know, perhaps everyone is still digesting the story? They better, for this is a great issue and not to be missed. And I don't hand out accolades lightly.

We learn of Dr. Hurt (ha ha) techniques (severe trauma) in creating the Batman replacements, and what Bruce was really doing in that sensory-deprivation experiment. Love it.

[Choppa]

I read it last night and enjoyed it. It was nice to see more happen in this one after the last issue.

It seems more clear that Morrison is defenitly retelling or at least using elements from the "Robin Dies at Dawn" story now.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I know, perhaps everyone is still digesting the story? They better, for this is a great issue and not to be missed. And I don't hand out accolades lightly.

We learn of Dr. Hurt (ha ha) techniques (severe trauma) in creating the Batman replacements, and what Bruce was really doing in that sensory-deprivation experiment. Love it.


Plus, we got the back-story on the 3 Batmen......And the very end of the issue was a nice touch.

All-in-all, I was more than happy to have bought this issue.

[The Batman]

I thought it was a fantastic issue, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it on here.

Both the art & writing were great, I'd consider this Morrison's best work on Batman so far.

We also got an issue of All-Star Batman so we've been pre-occupied with arguing about that.

[Trey]

I thought it was a fantastic issue, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it on here.

Both the art & writing were great, I'd consider this Morrison's best work on Batman so far.

Rereading all his run really helps. I like it much better the 2nd time. I'm one of the few that really liked the prose issue.

Batman's escape caught me by surprise.

What did the cop promise?

[Agent_Torpor]

Rereading all his run really helps. I like it much better the 2nd time. I'm one of the few that really liked the prose issue.

Batman's escape caught me by surprise.

What did the cop promise?

The cop promised to take care of his three compatriots that underwent the Batmanning procedure. In this case, "taking care of" meant putting a bullet in one of their heads.

[Agent_Torpor]

I just re-read an interview with Morrison, and I didn't realize that the 10-day deprivation experiment that he's referencing in the current arc actually took place in an issue from 1963! I love that kind of carefully-crafted continuity.

[spidervenom]

Do you think dr hurt did more stuff to batman than we currently know.

[Agent_Torpor]

Do you think dr hurt did more stuff to batman than we currently know.

Knowing Morrison, we can bank on that.

[spidervenom]

Knowing Morrison, we can bank on that.

Also, do you think those mental blackout's were already there, or were they caused by the isolation experiment

[GRANT!]

We also got an issue of All-Star Batman so we've been pre-occupied with arguing about that.

I know. It's so hard to find time to bicker about two f***ed up Batman comics in the same week.

It's starting to come together a little better (though I'm still not sure what Batmite has to do with this). Plus which Batman is Muller and Branco. I thought BatBane was Muller but in this issue they say Gun toting Batman is Muller and Branco is BatBane. I think Morrison gets them mixed up.

Still it's stronger then some of the previous issues and I like the absurdity of it all. Even Daniels art is growing on me.

[hYPE]

I thought it was a fantastic issue, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about it on here.

Both the art & writing were great, I'd consider this Morrison's best work on Batman so far.

What's so great about it???

[Agent_Torpor]

What's so great about it???

A cerebral approach in linking past Batman incidents while creating a new, ominous ubervillain? All the while a satisfying read coupled with good art. What's not great about it?

[spidervenom]

A cerebral approach in linking past Batman incidents while creating a new, ominous ubervillain? All the while a satisfying read coupled with good art. What's not great about it?

Is the omnious super villain the third batman or is it the guy who activated the three batmen

[filthysize]

I was already really liking Morrison's run, but after knowing what he's going for, it's just really incredible. I can't believe he's making everything work like this. I wonder if he's planning to address the Rainbow Batman stuff in upcoming issues?

Does this count as a retcon?

[Agent_Torpor]

Is the omnious super villain the third batman or is it the guy who activated the three batmen

We don't know yet.

[spidervenom]

I was already really liking Morrison's run, but after knowing what he's going for, it's just really incredible. I can't believe he's making everything work like this. I wonder if he's planning to address the Rainbow Batman stuff in upcoming issues?

Does this count as a retcon?

yeah, I thought the same thing about rainbow batman, But also I heard he might also focus on an old silver age batman stoy in which He went to another planet called zur an arrh and gained superman like powers.

[Choppa]

yeah, I thought the same thing about rainbow batman, But also I heard he might also focus on an old silver age batman stoy in which He went to another planet called zur an arrh and gained superman like powers.

Isn't it obvious by now that he is retelling/borrowing from that story?

[Binker]

Hey guys. I guess no one here knows this: I write reviews for comics and I share them on only 1-2 boards. I'm going to expand that, so here is my review to Batman #674.

by Nathaniel Ruff (aka Binker on the forums)

BATMAN #674

Written by Grant Morrison
Art by Tony Daniel & Jonathan Glapion
Cover by Daniel
Edited by Mike Marts

PLOT:
More secrets of Batman are revealed! Batman finds himself in a torture chamber facing the last and deadliest of the three Batman replacements…and finally learns the tragic story of how they came to be! With a shocking appearance by Bat-Mite, this tale leads to more revelations about the young Batman's participation in a bizarre isolation experiment as we learn how the terrifying consequences of his actions will alter the Dark Knight's life in the months to come.

REVIEW:
Morrison brought in another issue under his run of Batman that continued to be good. I knew many fans would love to see the retro, '30s Batman costume in modern art yet again, as well as many people liking the credit to Bill Finger, even from those who have the "Raise the Finger!" banners as their forum signatures. Well, at the end, the Third Batman brought back Batman from his near-death experience, and let's what's next in #674.

Grant Morrison surely can do a very good Batman story, and this is one of them. I like writers who get inside the character's brain and flesh out who and what he or she is during a situation. Whether life threatening or not. And Morrison does that, or better yet he continues to do that, with Batman. Reading Batman's thought patterns as the Third Batman talks, trying to piece together what has happened before with the new information we learn today. I loved reading that in these pages. It reminded me of those shows and movies where I get goose bumps and choke up when the pieces are about to come together for the revelation to solve the case. Many writers have always done great jobs showcasing the detective side of Batman, and Morrison is no exception. One of the things we should take note is that everything is a clue, even in Batman’s past. Very much like another great Batman story in animated form instead of comic form: Mask of the Phantasm. This all will lead up to what we want to know in Batman R.I.P.

Speaking of new information; we do get some in this issue. For one, the three Batmen we have been seeing in these issues happened to be the three cops trained to replace Batman if he ever died. The doctor in charge was Doctor Simon Hurt, and only two men were revealed: Muller the first one and Branca the second one (the Bane-looking one). Leaving the third one still a mystery. Well actually, Batman remembers the Lane case, and maybe Lane (who was a cop too) is the Third Batman. Only time will tell. Either way, there are cops in the GCPD who know about it. And one of the cops, Farelli, blames Batman for all of it. Again, I believe everything is a clue to this entire mystery.

Overall, this was another very good issue of Batman. Many things were shown here, as well as a guest star in the form of Bat-Mite. Batman's brief flashbacks and memories, together with the old and new information from this issue, are all clues for this Third Batman, what's going on here, and in turn the storyline we want to read: Batman R.I.P. Speaking of which, we got one more issue to go before R.I.P. begins. So let's all wait and see what #675 brings to the table!

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: Will the Bat be ready for the devastating crossroads ahead?

[BrikHed21]

I loved the story but to really get the full effect it requires picking up a few of the past Morrison issues and reading them as well. The stop and go from he filler story arcs makes you forget some of the things that they reference. If you take the time this book becomes even more of a great read.

I think Morrison has some huge things cooking here and I second the fact that I love he is pulling this from the 60's comics. We all scream continuity and I really think Morrison is taking that to the next level.

[Captain Jim]

I didn't realize that the 10-day deprivation experiment that he's referencing in the current arc actually took place in an issue from 1963!

Then you definitely need to read this thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=207995).

[Mister Intensity]

There was a story from the 50's or 60's that I believe was called the Secret Six (or Five) which detailed, I believe the GCPD efforts of training a group law enforcement officers to take over as Batman in the event of his death or incapacitation. I have to look at my Batman Encyclopedia for further details. I wonder if what's going on is related to that story.

Mister Intensity

[flapjaxx]

Is the omnious super villain the third batman or is it the guy who activated the three batmen

We don't know yet.

I think we pretty much do know. It doesn't really make much sense for Batman to posit a mysterious, nearly-omnipotent behind-the-scenes villain while he's having a very physical confrontation with the Third Man. Then on the second-to-last page a black glove is found and Batman wonders if the omnipotent villain is telling him his name. Now, maybe this is the Third Man's glove, but...

Wasn't a "Black Glove" behind the Club of Heroes story-arc? Mayhew in his getaway plane in #669 is shown talking to someone on the radio, and this person berates him for not killing Batman. This person on the radio was probably not the Third Man, since when the Third Man first shows up four issues later (#672) he says that he's just been "activated", that "the sleeper has awoke". (He would have been "sleeping" while the Club of Heroes was going on.)

I do not think the Third Man = Black Glove, because the Third Man doesn't seem omnipotent enough. He doesn't seem like a mastermind, especially since at times (in #666 as well) he seems to refer to himself as a servant of the Devil.

Now in this current issue the Third Man says that Dr Hurt "wasn't human", right before the exposition about his own family being killed by Satanists. Batman then worries about an "invisible foe who'd calculated [his] every weakness". Well, on the first page of the issue Dr Hurt introduces himself as "something of a Batman specialist".

Dr Hurt = the Black Glove, the person who's behind everything.

P.S. This title is amazingly great. I really hope #675 is double-sized. And can you imagine what Bruce is going to do to cause a media event? Is he going to out himself as Batman, maybe while announcing his retirement??? Remember the flashback in this issue, where he tells Robin he's going to retire? At the end of the issue we see Bruce Wayne in the morning, and the title of the issue was "Batman Dies at Dawn".

[BrikHed21]

Wasn't a "Black Glove" behind the Club of Heroes story-arc? Mayhew in his getaway plane in #669 is shown talking to someone on the radio, and this person berates him for not killing Batman.

Yes, I believe you are right and Morrison did say in an interview there was a tie-in to the Club of Heroes.

Dr Hurt = the Black Glove, the person who's behind everything.

This is my thought too

P.S. This title is amazingly great.

Amen brother - loving this as it all comes together.

[Jack Zodiac]

Oh, damn, I didn't even make that connection at the end of the issue. I read it really late last night, but re reading it this morning, I caught a lot more, and yeah, Batman's positing on Dr. Hurt, an essentially nameless and faceless man pulling strings from behind the scenes. And then, he finds that black glove, which I'm pretty sure wasn't the Third Man's, since he appeared to have both of his gloves on the entire time and wouldn't have had a reason to take them off.

Wow, so the "Club of Heroes" story might even serve as a connection to the villain behind Batman's breakdown and the creation of the Three Ghosts. That's !@#$in' awesome.

EDIT: And with the possibility that Bat-Mite (does anyone know why he had that weird parasite on him in this issue?) could be a figment of Batman's imagination either brought on by the sensory deprivation experiment he underwent or implanted by Dr. Hurt during that time, does anyone else wonder if all of the really crazy, goofy, off-the-wall Batman adventures might've just been implants to wear his mind down? Like his trip to Zur-en-Arrh, which has been alluded to previously in Morrison's run.

[Metronome35]

P.S. This title is amazingly great. I really hope #675 is double-sized. And can you imagine what Bruce is going to do to cause a media event? Is he going to out himself as Batman, maybe while announcing his retirement??? Remember the flashback in this issue, where he tells Robin he's going to retire? At the end of the issue we see Bruce Wayne in the morning, and the title of the issue was "Batman Dies at Dawn".

Huh, I thought him wanting media attention at the end was just him preparing his public excuse for why he was so badly injured(pretending that his skydiving had gone wrong).

[Agent_Torpor]

I think we pretty much do know. It doesn't really make much sense for Batman to posit a mysterious, nearly-omnipotent behind-the-scenes villain while he's having a very physical confrontation with the Third Man. Then on the second-to-last page a black glove is found and Batman wonders if the omnipotent villain is telling him his name. Now, maybe this is the Third Man's glove, but...

Wasn't a "Black Glove" behind the Club of Heroes story-arc? Mayhew in his getaway plane in #669 is shown talking to someone on the radio, and this person berates him for not killing Batman. This person on the radio was probably not the Third Man, since when the Third Man first shows up four issues later (#672) he says that he's just been "activated", that "the sleeper has awoke". (He would have been "sleeping" while the Club of Heroes was going on.)

I do not think the Third Man = Black Glove, because the Third Man doesn't seem omnipotent enough. He doesn't seem like a mastermind, especially since at times (in #666 as well) he seems to refer to himself as a servant of the Devil.

Now in this current issue the Third Man says that Dr Hurt "wasn't human", right before the exposition about his own family being killed by Satanists. Batman then worries about an "invisible foe who'd calculated [his] every weakness". Well, on the first page of the issue Dr Hurt introduces himself as "something of a Batman specialist".

Dr Hurt = the Black Glove, the person who's behind everything.

P.S. This title is amazingly great. I really hope #675 is double-sized. And can you imagine what Bruce is going to do to cause a media event? Is he going to out himself as Batman, maybe while announcing his retirement??? Remember the flashback in this issue, where he tells Robin he's going to retire? At the end of the issue we see Bruce Wayne in the morning, and the title of the issue was "Batman Dies at Dawn".

That's a lot of conjecture at this point. It could happen. However, Morrison' been known to throw a red-herring around in his time.

[dotdotdot]

we know all three batmen. the first was in the very first issue against the joke.....i can't recall if we've seen him die yet. the second is the bane designed batman, who is now dead. the remaining batman got away this issue, setting him up to still be around for the future depicted in 666.

[Denny Colt]

I suspect that there is no actual villain. The villain is Batman himself and his own wounded psyche. I'm wondering if Morrison is picking up on the Untold Legend of the Batman mini series from the early eighties in which Bruce thinks someone has found out all his secrets and then realizes that it is his own psyche playing tricks on him. It seems to be the direction Morrison is going, what with Batmite as an (apparent) apparition of his own psyche, the experiment, all the weird 50's outerspace stuff. Batman is basically cracking.

For the record, I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but some of the pertinent silver age stories have been reprinted:

Robin Dies at Dawn - The Greatest Batman Stories ever Told
Batman - the Superman of Planet X - Batman in the fifties.
Introducing Batmite - Batman in the 50's
(There is also a "Brane", i.e. Batman from the future, which I'm wondering if Morrison will tie in) in the latter collection.
I'm not sure if the Commissioner Vane story has been reprinted.

Lots of good stuff also in the old "Batman 30's to the 70's" collection, if you can get your hands on that.

Anyone reading the Morrison run should really look at all of the above.

[ultramandingo]

........who needs that ra as gul waste of time when you have dr hurt slash black glove ? morrison craziness wins over the same old same old again ( told you ) bring on the gorrila mob boss of gotham !

[Captain Jim]

I'm not sure if the Commissioner Vane story has been reprinted.

Only in an Archives volume, I believe.

[the goddamn batman]

I wasn't super interested in Morrison's Batman run at first. Read the Club of Heroes arc for J.H. WIlliams art, but didn't really care about the story.

Picked up this issue after reading about it online, and man, this is actually really interesting. Very excited/curious to see where it goes.

[OneWinged]

i just wanted to share with you all these two review i've found about bats 674
http://marvel-vs-dc.blogspot.com/2008/02/batman-674-review.html

http://independentcomicssite.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=428&Itemid=1

with so many kick-ass reviews out there, it's a shame this book don't get all the attention it deserves

[HotRod_Tim]

Is the omnious super villain the third batman or is it the guy who activated the three batmen

Or maybe this ominous super villain was the one who planned for the 3 Batmen to be activated by Dr. Hurt.....

All in all, I'm loving Morrison's Batman run. The Batman and Son story, the Club of Heroes, the prose issue, Ra's Al Ghul, and then the 3 Batmen...this run is going down as one of my Bat-faves!

[flapjaxx]

That's a lot of conjecture at this point. It could happen. However, Morrison' been known to throw a red-herring around in his time.

I agree that my "P.S." comment about Bruce maybe announcing that he's Batman is mostly just a guess, but what else is? If I show you the Tony Daniel cover to issue #676, which shows another Black Glove outline (similar to the ones shown throughout the Club of Heroes arc), would you still think it's all "conjecture"?

http://bp2.blogger.com/_yWjfmSMdvSo/R5YiOKBOBRI/AAAAAAAAAKU/7UlQ6H60L3w/s320/Batman+676cover.jpg
(From Tony Daniel's blog)

Or maybe this ominous super villain was the one who planned for the 3 Batmen to be activated by Dr. Hurt.....

Yes, someone is behind even Hurt: a certain bald Scotsmen who first appeared in some Animal Man issues in the early '90s.

[cdemink]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I'll keep it quick - I've been keeping track of this Three Batmen arc for awhile now and here's everything I've got so far -
http://batmanytb.com/comics/storyarcs/threeghostsbatman.php

Am I missing anything? I'm the curator of the comics section at BYTB, by the way.

[DirtyHarrington]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I'll keep it quick - I've been keeping track of this Three Batmen arc for awhile now and here's everything I've got so far -
http://batmanytb.com/comics/storyarcs/threeghostsbatman.php

Am I missing anything? I'm the curator of the comics section at BYTB, by the way.

Maybe mention the connection between Zur-En-Arrh and Batman #113? Also, the "thing" on Bat-Mite's back? But I guess those a minor details Morrison hasn't really fleshed out yet so it doesn't really matter if you add it or not.

[Captain Jim]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I'll keep it quick - I've been keeping track of this Three Batmen arc for awhile now and here's everything I've got so far -
http://batmanytb.com/comics/storyarcs/threeghostsbatman.php

Am I missing anything? I'm the curator of the comics section at BYTB, by the way.

In a recent interview, Morrison says everything he's written in Batman to date ties into this storyline.

[Batman was taken]

In a recent interview, Morrison says everything he's written in Batman to date ties into this storyline.

Which would just be the last 10 or so issues, wouldn't it? He wouldn't reference something from JLA or something, would he?

[Choppa]

He hasn't written JLA in like 10 years AFAIK

[Batman was taken]

He hasn't written JLA in like 10 years AFAIK

I know. Back in '97 or something. I was just wondering, when he said everything he's written on Batman would include anything from his JLA run. I don't see why he would, but....

It's just the way he worded it I guess.

[BrikHed21]

Which would just be the last 10 or so issues, wouldn't it? He wouldn't reference something from JLA or something, would he?

No he is talking about all of his Batman issues are tied together. So the Club of Heroes and the Damian Wayne 666 issue are all in game.

[Captain Jim]

Yes, and even the Joker text story, he said specifically.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Yes, and even the Joker text story, he said specifically.

Ugh, I don't know if I'd want to re-read that issue to see any possible clues towards the overall storyline.......That would be torture, sheer torture.

[Jack Zodiac]

The only torture I'd endure is digging through my unsorted backissues for it... I loved that story.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

The only torture I'd endure is digging through my unsorted backissues for it... I loved that story.

I had no patience for it. Couldn't stand the art, and I don't get enough sleep to bother wading through that text again. It's not that it was too complex to read, I just found it mind-numbingly boring.

I haven't had a problem with any other Morrison-penned Batman issue (aside from 671, but that was due to the entire cross-over being a jumbled mess)........But issue 663? I had to forcefeed myself that issue, it was the comic book equivalent to my misfortune of seeing The Blair Witch Project at the theater.

[Jack Zodiac]

Why?10char

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Can't specifically say.....I wasn't running on much sleep when I read it (Nor am I, currently), so I don't remember too much of the issue.

[Jack Zodiac]

Oh. I wonder, because a lot of people didn't like the issue, if it's a matter of the average comic book fan not being much of a reader outside of sequential art.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Who knows, that could be a reason a lot of people didn't like the issue. I would hope it's not the reason, but then again, a lot of people have been finding Morrison's style on Batman to be confusing in general.

As for myself, I used to read a lot of novels and such, but haven't the past few years due to lack of time. The only "regular" text books I've read recently are autobiographies, and that format tends to be easy reading.

[cdemink]

In a recent interview, Morrison says everything he's written in Batman to date ties into this storyline.

Oh I know, and I planned on making additions to the page once things were solid and confirmed. I tried to stay away from citing any source that wasn't a comic right now. I wanted more of a general quick reference summary than a Wikipedia article since there's so much conjecture and speculation right now.

While I don't doubt everything will tie together somehow, I wanted to focus on only what has come to light thus far and also only focus on the "three batmen" aspect of the entire arc. Then link the Batmen arc and the Batman & Son arc under the umbrella of the Morrison run in general once he wraps up.

But thank you guys very much. I'm honored you all even took a minute out to look.

[ultramandingo]

Oh. I wonder, because a lot of people didn't like the issue, if it's a matter of the average comic book fan not being much of a reader outside of sequential art.

....... theres a thread where " readers " didnt like THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN: THE BLACK DOSSIER becuase of all the words - makes me proud to be a funny book reader

[Jack Zodiac]

....... theres a thread where " readers " didnt like THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN: THE BLACK DOSSIER becuase of all the words - makes me proud to be a funny book reader

Which is !@#$ing hilarious. The Black Dossier is the literary Holy Grail of comics. Anything that can tie Lovecraft to Shakespeare is pure genius.

[GRANT!]

Which is !@#$ing hilarious. The Black Dossier is the literary Holy Grail of comics. Anything that can tie Lovecraft to Shakespeare is pure genius.

I didn't catch any Lovecraft reference in the Shakespeare piece. Though the Wodehouse piece with Cthluthlu was genius indeed.

Text pieces in comics are tricky because they are not immediately satisfying. I'm one of the few people who read the Almanac in League 2 and I don't enjoy it so much as a work of fiction but it's definately enhanced my reading of the book so far. Especially Black Dossier. You start connecting the dots when the characters start appearing and the story gets much bigger then it would in sequential piece. Reading Black Dossier is getting me pumped for the third volume because Moore just lays down the basics for this world he created. It's just a massive amount of information. He did something similar in the Watchmen as well. So it's nothing new.

Much like what Morrison is doing with the Joker in the text piece. Morrison says the Joker will play a major role in the RIP arc and this story helps sets him up as what he calls the "scariest Joker yet." And the Joker story was a big story. Probably 3 or 4 issues if told in the standard format. And personally I thought it was pretty entertaining.

[cdemink]

While I certainly appreciate the fact that Grant M. was able to squeeze in essentially a couple issues worth of story into one - I still can't bring myself to like it. It just seems a bit... cluttered.

I consider myself to actually be more of a BOOK reading guy than a comic book reading guy but at the same time I felt like I was reading a book with pictures in it like what I would read when I was young. Unfortunately instead of tying the two aspects of the story closer together I found the approach to be more distracting than it was worth. Like trying to watch tv with the radio on in the background.

[Earl of the RCs]

So we know Dr. Hurt is the devil the third man was referring to have made a deal with in 666, but that doesn't mean that Dr. Hurt is the omni-villian batman is suposing. As tough as the 3rd Man is (the closest to creating a Batman that Hurt got of his three subjects; his `mistake' being that he went to far; having mock-satanists torture and kill the guys family goes a bit further than parents shot in an alley even . of course Hurt doesn't see it as a mistake, but rather as an improvement.) I dont think he's in a possition to know who the real mastermind is.

So, the hints do point to Black Glove... and Grant Morrison himself may be Blsck Glove, because even though he's dead in continuity (suicide squad) he could be bought back someway, and he's already retconned- in a good way- so much silver age stuff BACK into continuity, that a little more retconning wouldn't *cough cough* hurt... but thats not what I think is happening.

Though thinking about the possibility of Grant being the villain himself is what lead me to realise who it must be....

Egghead.

Thats right; the worlds greatest criminal mind.

GM's already bought back silver age comic book stuff. He may as well have a crack at incorporating some of the non-comicbook origin 60s TV show villains into continuity as well. IKt all fits I tells ya. And Batman needs a cerebral villain to face off against, especially with Riddler gone straight.

[Denny Colt]

So we know Dr. Hurt is the devil the third man was referring to have made a deal with in 666, but that doesn't mean that Dr. Hurt is the omni-villian batman is suposing. As tough as the 3rd Man is (the closest to creating a Batman that Hurt got of his three subjects; his `mistake' being that he went to far; having mock-satanists torture and kill the guys family goes a bit further than parents shot in an alley even . of course Hurt doesn't see it as a mistake, but rather as an improvement.) I dont think he's in a possition to know who the real mastermind is.

So, the hints do point to Black Glove... and Grant Morrison himself may be Blsck Glove, because even though he's dead in continuity (suicide squad) he could be bought back someway, and he's already retconned- in a good way- so much silver age stuff BACK into continuity, that a little more retconning wouldn't *cough cough* hurt... but thats not what I think is happening.

Though thinking about the possibility of Grant being the villain himself is what lead me to realise who it must be....

Egghead.

Thats right; the worlds greatest criminal mind.

GM's already bought back silver age comic book stuff. He may as well have a crack at incorporating some of the non-comicbook origin 60s TV show villains into continuity as well. IKt all fits I tells ya. And Batman needs a cerebral villain to face off against, especially with Riddler gone straight.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[flapjaxx]

I haven't read the Joker prose issue but plan to finally do so this weekend. I'm NOT looking forward to reading it, but I believe I will get some enjoyment out of speculating what the Joker's role in this will be, though I won't be in a position to even begin doing that for a few months, it seems, as the issues are going...

So we know Dr. Hurt is the devil the third man was referring to have made a deal with in 666, but that doesn't mean that Dr. Hurt is the omni-villian batman is suposing. As tough as the 3rd Man is (the closest to creating a Batman that Hurt got of his three subjects; his `mistake' being that he went to far; having mock-satanists torture and kill the guys family goes a bit further than parents shot in an alley even . of course Hurt doesn't see it as a mistake, but rather as an improvement.) I dont think he's in a possition to know who the real mastermind is.

So, the hints do point to Black Glove... and Grant Morrison himself may be Blsck Glove, because even though he's dead in continuity (suicide squad) he could be bought back someway, and he's already retconned- in a good way- so much silver age stuff BACK into continuity, that a little more retconning wouldn't *cough cough* hurt... but thats not what I think is happening.

Though thinking about the possibility of Grant being the villain himself is what lead me to realise who it must be....

Egghead.

Thats right; the worlds greatest criminal mind.

GM's already bought back silver age comic book stuff. He may as well have a crack at incorporating some of the non-comicbook origin 60s TV show villains into continuity as well. IKt all fits I tells ya. And Batman needs a cerebral villain to face off against, especially with Riddler gone straight.

:)

I wasn't serious when I insinuated that Morrison (the Scottsman behind Animal Man's troubles) could be the mastermind. Of course, he IS in that he's writing the book, but I don't think he'd write that into continuity. I did think about Egghead, which does fit in that both Egghead and Morrison have shaved heads (and Grant seemed a bit miffed that Kubert drew Future Damian with a shaved head as well)... but Egghead wasn't in continuity to begin with, was he? I thought they created that character just for the '60s show. I will find it hilarious if Egghead turns out to be the mastermind, but we've already got a "black glove" and a "Dr. Hurt" running around, and Hurt didn't have a bald head (or didn't used to), so I don't know if another persona will be introduced at this point. I WILL lmao if it turns out to be Egghead.

Also, re: the sections I put in bold above... I don't see how anyone could possibly declare at this point that Hurt thinks the Third Man is an "improvement". How can an "improvement" not plan for Bruce's old arm-dislocating trick? No, I think that Hurt/Black Glove knew that the Third Man would fail in his assassination attempt, and intended the whole thing (the dropping of information, and of the black glove) merely to clue Batman in a little bit, just enough to drive him over the edge. If Hurt is "obsessed" with Batman, then he doesn't want to replace him. I would say that Hurt just used the "replacement Batman" program as an excuse to fuel his own obsession. Lastly, while I don't think that the Third Man knows all there is to know about the mastermind, he certainly demonstrated in this issue that he IS in a position to know quite a bit about Dr. Hurt. We as readers can only put the two pieces of information together. And remember, Morrison can throw out red herrings, but the theory of "Hurt = mastermind = Black Glove" isn't really THAT obvious to begin with, not at this point.

[Earl of the RCs]

Well, I of course, was being totally serious.

But no, yeah, good points well made. It would be a bit of a cheat to bring in another character at this stage. And you're right that `the mastermind' (whoever it is) definetly expected Bats to escape from the third man. By `improvement' though I meant in one specific area... nastiness. Just like the first replacement Batman was willing to use guns and shot and tried to Kill the Joker (which even some fans think Batman should do), and the second fella is all venom/monster serumed up (and some people dont understand why in a world of super-powered beings and ways of getting super-powers Batman doesn't arc himself up to meet those threats) the third man's level of tragedy has pushed him into really tourturing his opponants. Something else that an obvious sadist like Hurt would appreciate. (3rd man's clearly as equally driven as Bats). Its just that none of the three have the detective skills; which fits since the mastermind wants to use them as `hands' not for them to be their own heads. (Oops, unbreakable comic-book theory reference. Movie ended terribly- so obvious- but still a good bit of dialogue).

On a related note I think its why I think all the `Anti-Batman' characters of continuity- Killer Moth, Wrath, Prometheus and even Hugo Strange- have had strong starts and then struggled to maintain stories afterwards; bats' most famous villains all represent one element of his personality exagerated and twisted to an evil extreme- when you try to include to much of bats in another character, it becomes overwhelming and cluttered.