Really Shocking News Story of the Day

[Brian Cronin]

How many "this is the worst thing ever!" threads do we need before I just decide to make one mega-thread for all of them?

I dunno...however many we've had.

So here ya go! This is the super-depressing thread where you can post all those sad stories about horrible occurrences, rather than constantly starting new ones about "the worst thing ever," etc.

-Brian

[Pól Rua]

I invoke the mighty man-god Mergenstein to merge this and all the other threads into the 'All-Purpose Bullshit Argument, Bogus Internet Articles Quoted in Lieu of Cogent Arguments, Bullshit Anecdotal Evidence in Lieu of any Real Knowledge of the Facts, Pointless Recrimination, Endless Ad Hominem Attacks, Strawman Arguments, Semantic Quibbling and Tearful, Shirt-Rending Hyperbole Thread'.

Or just retitle this one... whichever's easier.

Oh, and I thought I'd dig this one up. It may come in useful.
http://polrua.livejournal.com/151464.html
Thanks to jessecuster3, or as he was know then, jessecuster2.

Totally called it.

[rick]

This thread is easily the worst thing ever.

I for one like to pick and choose which senseless tragedy I follow.

[Brian Cronin]

Easier to just merge the inevitable next thread of this type in here.

-Brian

[stelok]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080327/ap_on_re_us/baby_in_microwave_9



GALVESTON, Texas - A jury sentenced a young father Wednesday to 25 years in prison for severely burning his infant daughter after putting her in a microwave and turning it on for up to 20 seconds.
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Joshua Mauldin was teary-eyed after hearing the sentence. His mother sobbed loudly in the courtroom.

The jury had convicted Mauldin on Tuesday of felony injury to a child, rejecting his claims that he was insane when he put his daughter Ana in the microwave last year.

Prosecutors had wanted him sentenced to the maximum of life in prison. Still, Galveston County prosecutor Xochitl Vandiver said she was satisfied with the sentence.

"It's extremely important for people to know that just because this case was sensational, it doesn't mean that (child abuse) goes away," she said. "Child abuse is an important issue. It should be focused on."

Sam Cammack III, Mauldin's attorney, had asked jurors to consider his client's long history of mental illness and sentence him to probation so he could be treated at a hospital.

"He still doesn't get the treatment for mental illness that he needs," Cammack said. "He's not going to get that in prison."

Jurors deliberated for 6 1/2 hours over two days before sentencing Mauldin. They also fined him $10,000.

Prosecutors said Mauldin hurt his daughter because he was angry that he was in a loveless marriage. They also said Mauldin had a history of violence and of lying about being mentally ill to get out of trouble.

Mauldin claimed he started hallucinating when he was left alone in a Galveston hotel room with his daughter, feeling like mud was running up his body and consuming him.

Just before putting her in the room's microwave, he punched the then 2-month-old child and placed her in the room's safe and refrigerator.

Mauldin at first told police his daughter had been severely sunburned, later changing his story and saying he had accidentally spilled hot water on her while making coffee.

Ana suffered second- and third-degree burns to her left ear, cheek, hand and shoulder and required two skin grafts. Part of her left ear had to be amputated.

After the sentence was handed down, Joanie Mauldin insisted her son was insane and blamed herself for not getting her son help and for Ana's injuries.

"I pray he gets help. But I don't see it happening in a penitentiary," she said, insisting her son loved his daughter. "Nobody in their right mind would cook a child."

Ana, now 1, suffered second- and third-degree burns to her left ear, cheek, hand and shoulder and has required several skin grafts. Part of her left ear had to be amputated.

Before Joshua Mauldin was taken away, Ana's foster mother, Heather Croxton, told him during an emotional victim impact statement about the pain he's caused his daughter.

"There is no excuse for your actions and I hate that one day you will be set free and allowed to move on with your life while Ana continues to pay for your actions," Croxton told Mauldin, who will be eligible for parole after he serves half his sentence.

"I hope that somehow you pay for what you have done to this innocent, beautiful baby girl," she said.

Croxton, whose husband is a step-cousin to the girl's mother, Eva Mauldin, said she hopes to adopt Ana.

A trial to terminate the Mauldins' parental rights is scheduled for April. Eva Mauldin refused defense attorneys' requests to testify and lives in Arkansas..

I think that guy should be microwaved.
The punishment must fit the crime.

[Spike-X]

Howy's gone to bed, so I'll get this one.

*ahem*

This is why we need the death penalty.

[ACertainMrDoe]

This is why we need the death penalty.

Just like Britney Spears said:
«I am for the death penalty. Who commits terrible acts must get a fitting punishment. That way he learns the lesson for the next time.»

[Spike-X]

Who are we to argue with such wisdom?

[Paradox]

Sentient beings, unlike Britney? :p

[Valmore]

Wait - Texas didn't put this guy to death? The one state that's proud about leading the nation in capital punishments doled out?

What has the world come to?

Usually I'm anti-death penalty. But in this case...

[Jeff Brady]

Just like Britney Spears said:
«I am for the death penalty. Who commits terrible acts must get a fitting punishment. That way he learns the lesson for the next time.»

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/861/861184/britneys-new-look-20080320031042702.jpg

[Loren]

Wait - Texas didn't put this guy to death? The one state that's proud about leading the nation in capital punishments doled out?

What has the world come to?

Usually I'm anti-death penalty. But in this case...

Texas CAN'T put the guy to death. If they tried, they'd be overturned. The article states that the little girl was severely burned, but she wasn't killed. And the death penalty is reserved only for murder cases.

No murder = no death penalty.

[mgs]

man, that's a brutal thing to read about. actually does sound like the guy may have mental problems though. in all the blame, I don't know how he grew up, but yes, the mother of this deranged person should accept her part in not reporting or helping Joshua get any sort of help. I doubt this was the first time he abused the child.

[ACertainMrDoe]

Texas CAN'T put the guy to death. If they tried, they'd be overturned. The article states that the little girl was severely burned, but she wasn't killed. And the death penalty is reserved only for murder cases.

No murder = no death penalty.

He was sentenced to 25 years - that is quite a penalty, if you ask me. I don't know too much about US laws, but over here in Germany, that guy would have gotten max 10 years for aggravated assault, most probably much less, as some form of mental incapacity is involved... as far as I read the article, it cannot be regarded as attempted homicide or murder.

[rick]

He was sentenced to 25 years - that is quite a penalty, if you ask me. I don't know too much about US laws, but over here in Germany, that guy would have gotten max 10 years for aggravated assault, most probably much less, as some form of mental incapacity is involved... as far as I read the article, it cannot be regarded as attempted homicide or murder.


If he was really nuts he would not have lied about how the child was burned in the first place.

As it is, 25 years sounds about right.

[Paradox]

Of course, it being the States, he'll be out in seven.

[Deathstroke]

Today's candidate for Most Likely To Not Win Father of the Year Award.

What a bastard.

Oh, and the defense was surprised that an insanity defense got rejected by a TEXAS jury? Maybe the defense lawyer is insane.

[HomerJay]

Only 25 years is OK with me as long as they also put his gentalia in a George Foreman grill for 20 seconds.

[Rabid Trekkie]

Today's candidate for Most Likely To Not Win Father of the Year Award.

What a bastard.

Oh, and the defense was surprised that an insanity defense got rejected by a TEXAS jury? Maybe the defense lawyer is insane.

One lawyer was able to get Andrea Yates out of a death penalty charge with it and now the insanity plea is starting to become popular. Heck with the Clara Harris case they tried to get around the fact that Texas doesn't allow temporary insanity as a defense by calling it "sudden passion." I give it a couple more big cases before this defense goes back into non-use.

[rick]

Of course, it being the States, he'll be out in seven.

It's Texas, he'll do 12.

[Loren]

At the risk of making light of a very serious and sad subject...this is all Kyle Baker's fault.

[rick]

At the risk of making light of a very serious and sad subject...this is all Kyle Baker's fault.


That's just wrong.

Funny mind you.

But wrong.

[Paradox]

I sol'd (snorted out loud). :p

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I don't know what to say about this.
On the one hand you have the carzy stuff that goes on in NYC. Battery acid, blenders, locked in closets and not fed. Makes this one not seem so bad.
But it's all bad. Horrible actually. The 25 yr sentence makes since, but only if he gets boiled water thrown on him everyday. Everyday at 3 pm. No matter what he's doing.

SPLASH!!!!

"AAAAAAAGH!!!!"

[Shellhead]

Inmates tend to be pretty tough on the child molestors, because a lot of cons are also fathers. Maybe this microwave moron will get the child molestor treatment in jail.

[StoneGold]

Inmates tend to be pretty tough on the child molestors, because a lot of cons are also fathers. Maybe this microwave moron will get the child molestor treatment in jail.

I do find it somewhat amazing that getting raped in prison is considered just punishment for things.

[Mike Pothier]

I won't be losing any sleep.

[StoneGold]

I won't be losing any sleep.

I find it mildly disturbing that it's the automatic prison consolation prize. Perp didn't get enough time? Don't worry, he'll be raped.

[Just a Shadow]

I find it mildly disturbing that it's the automatic prison consolation prize. Perp didn't get enough time? Don't worry, he'll be raped.

What I find more troublesome is that a lot of these bastards are put into protective custody to avoid that sort of thing.

[Paradox]

What bothers me isn't that someone's wishing child molester's et all prison rape. What bothers me is that they think prison rapists are that discriminating.

"Oh, you're here for a pot bust. Don't worry, I don't rape you guys." :rolleyes:

[StoneGold]

What I find more troublesome is that a lot of these bastards are put into protective custody to avoid that sort of thing.

I see. So what you're saying is you enjoy state-sponsored rape.



See what I did there?

[Just a Shadow]

I see. So what you're saying is you enjoy state-sponsored rape.



See what I did there?

For people that commit this sort of crime or child molestation, I sure as hell do. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest problem with this guy's punishment is that there are no guarantees that he'll have that sort of thing happen to him.

[Mike Pothier]

I find it mildly disturbing that it's the automatic prison consolation prize. Perp didn't get enough time? Don't worry, he'll be raped.

If it doesn't happen, at least he's in prison for the next couple decades. If it does, I'm not going to feel sorry for him.

[Slam_Bradley]

I see. So what you're saying is you enjoy state-sponsored rape.


See what I did there?


If the state were sponsoring the rape, said rape wouldn't be a crime...which it is. The rape is simply a by-product of the system. Good or bad...your mileage may vary.

But not state-sponsored.

[HomerJay]

But not state-sponsored.
Also agrees with state-sponsored buttsex as long as it's consensual:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/HomerJay64/ld_spitzer_071114_ms.jpg

[DoctorDoom]

THis is just sick.

[Shellhead]

I do find it somewhat amazing that getting raped in prison is considered just punishment for things.

I was under the impression that child molestors suffered other forms of abuse, too, including beatdowns.

The real shame in this situation is that even the state of Texas won't execute this guy. For a crime this horrible, no amount of rehabilitation will ever be enough to merit releasing him back into society, let alone soon enough for him to have more kids. Parents in general shouldn't have to worry about baby-microwavers getting released from jail. Why waste an excess of $20,000 per year on room and board for a monster who is also a vile imitation of a human being? Kill him and get it over with.

[Mac Danny]

The jury deliberated for 2:00 on High.

[Valmore]

Texas CAN'T put the guy to death. If they tried, they'd be overturned. The article states that the little girl was severely burned, but she wasn't killed. And the death penalty is reserved only for murder cases.

No murder = no death penalty.

C'mon - this is Texas. They put you to death for jaywalking there. Or at least they used to. Look at how soft they've gone now. Pretty soon they'll just be handing out fines for traffic violations instead of the customary beat downs.

[Sean Walsh]

With all due respect, child abuse will only go away when we as a society - with the full backing of the law - start gathering these people up and kill them in public.

Child abuser Holocaust: pretty sure that'd be more effective than serving some jailtime.

[StoneGold]

With all due respect, child abuse will only go away when we as a society - with the full backing of the law - start gathering these people up and kill them in public.


That's bullshit. Total crap. If public executions don't stop any other form of crime, why the hell would it stop something that generally goes on behind closed doors? At best, it might slow things down some, but hanging the men doesn't stop desertion.

[mattx110]

With all due respect, child abuse will only go away when we as a society - with the full backing of the law - start gathering these people up and kill them in public.

Child abuser Holocaust: pretty sure that'd be more effective than serving some jailtime.
See. There's a flaw in this theory.

They kinda think they might just get away with it.

[Rattlehead]

The newspaper here said he got a life sentence, not 25 years.

[StoneGold]

See. There's a flaw in this theory.

They kinda think they might just get away with it.

Especially for what tends to be a crime of passion like child abuse.

[Rattlehead]

The newspaper here said he got a life sentence, not 25 years.

Ah, never mind. The prosecution asked for a life sentence. I guess he only got 25 years because the devil made him do it.:rolleyes:

[niall mc cann]

Arguing about the death penalty in a case like this is pointless.

I mean, I fundamentally don't believe in it (Irish upbringing, I suppose) but seriously, I would not feel bad if this guy ended up under the prison bus rather than inside it.

Which is a different thing entirely than saying it should happen, but frankly, I just wouldn't care.

[Rattlehead]

Arguing about the death penalty in a case like this is pointless.

I mean, I fundamentally don't believe in it (Irish upbringing, I suppose) but seriously, I would not feel bad if this guy ended up under the prison bus rather than inside it.

Which is a different thing entirely than saying it should happen, but frankly, I just wouldn't care.

Irregardless, this is Texas. If the girl had died, he'd have gotten it in a heartbeat. He still should have been put away for life.

[niall mc cann]

He still should have been put away for life.

Seems like it to me.

[Spike-X]

THis is just sick.
Yeah, I'm getting pretty tired of these chest-thumping lynch mob threads too.

[Spike-X]

Irregardless...

...is not a word.

This is why we need the death penalty!

[StoneGold]

Yeah, I'm getting pretty tired of these chest-thumping lynch mob threads too.

That's because you aren't as morally superior as I am.

[Spike-X]

That's because you aren't as morally superior as I am.
I guess not.

This is why we need the death penalty.

[Mike Pothier]

Ugh, do I really want to get into another death penalty debate?

The guy didn't kill the girl. He's in prison where he belongs. Everything is peachy to me (except for the trauma that poor girl will have to live with).

[Spike-X]

The guy didn't kill the girl. He's in prison where he belongs.

You'd really think it would be that simple, wouldn't you?

[Mike Pothier]

You'd really think it would be that simple, wouldn't you?

Until I hear more details, yes I do.

[mattx110]

Ugh, do I really want to get into another death penalty debate?

The guy didn't kill the girl. He's in prison where he belongs. Everything is peachy to me (except for the trauma that poor girl will have to live with).
I hope we don't get into a debate, cause that would ruin our moment. I agree completely with Mike Pothier!

[Rattlehead]

Ugh, do I really want to get into another death penalty debate?

The guy didn't kill the girl. He's in prison where he belongs. Everything is peachy to me (except for the trauma that poor girl will have to live with).

It's not peachy with me until I can walk by his cell and throw Hot Pockets at him.

[Cyke]

I shed a tear while reading this story. Can anyone imagine being the child and getting burned alive?

[StoneGold]

I hope we don't get into a debate, cause that would ruin our moment. I agree completely with Mike Pothier!

Next time one of these starts, I need to remember to post early with "Wow, you're a more moral person than I am. I guess that makes you better." Because nothing beats being a passive aggressive dick.



Although implying that people get all hot and bothered by prison rape is pretty good, too.

[howyadoin]

Howy's gone to bed, so I'll get this one.

*ahem*

This is why we need the death penalty.You're a good man, Spike.

[mattx110]

Next time one of these starts, I need to remember to post early with "Wow, you're a more moral person than I am. I guess that makes you better." Because nothing beats being a passive aggressive dick.



Although implying that people get all hot and bothered by prison rape is pretty good, too.
I'm an amoral person. All adherence to "moral" tenents is strictly coincidental and for the benefit of society.

[Paul McEnery]

I think this is shameful.
















Everyone knows you get a better flavour out of a skillet.

[rick]

I only support the death penalty for certain types of murder.

But this is the type of case where I can understand why people might want to expand it a bit.

[Spike-X]

You're a good man, Spike.
I do what I can.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I only support the death penalty for certain types of murder.

But this is the type of case where I can understand why people might want to expand it a bit.

Even though the his mental health is in question?

Oh, and this annoys me also (although i can understand the lady has every right to be angry and emotional):

"I hope that somehow you pay for what you have done to this innocent, beautiful baby girl," she said.

Isn't that what the time in prison is about?

[rick]

Even though the his mental health is in question?



His mental health is actually not in question.

While he did try to use his mental state as a defense, it was rejected by the court.

[Paradox]

Sean Walsh is dreaming:http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6582408&postcount=36)

With all due respect, child abuse will only go away when we as a society - with the full backing of the law - start gathering these people up and kill them in public.

The only thing that will stop child abuse is if we stop having children. Otherwise, it's always going to be there somewhere.

[mattx110]

The only thing that will stop child abuse is if we stop having children. Otherwise, it's always going to be there somewhere.
I'm actually for the ban of having children.

[Paradox]

Birth control in the water and permits for child-bearing is a WHOLE 'NUTHER thread. :p

[Radioactive Zombie]

Hell, I have a bad temper, but I'm not prone to microwaving babies. Maybe my internet persona, but, damn.

This person should be set on fire and left to burn to death.

[mattx110]

Hell, I have a bad temper, but I'm not prone to microwaving babies. Maybe my internet persona, but, damn.

This person should be set on fire and left to burn to death.
By a Jew from Salem, Massachusetts, just to y'know, make sure people don't associate burning people alive with something anti-semetic, or anti-witch.

[MJC]

AP Exclusive: Parents didn't expect daughter to die during prayer

Associated Press - March 26, 2008 7:15 PM ET

WESTON, Wis. (AP) - The mother of an 11-year-old rural Weston girl who died of untreated diabetes says she didn't know her daughter was terminally ill as she prayed for her to get better instead of taking her to the doctor.

Madeline Neumann died Sunday from an undiagnosed and treatable form of diabetes.

Her mother, Leilani Neumann, tells The Associated Press her daughter's condition worsened suddenly, and the parents stayed in prayer, believing she would recover.

She also says she's not concerned about a police investigation, because she and her husband believe their lives are in God's hands and they did nothing criminal, only tried to do the best they could for their daughter.

Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin says an autopsy showed the girl died from a type of diabetes that left her with too little insulin in her body. He says she had probably been ill for about 30 days.

But Leilani Neumann says her daughter was in good health until recently. The girl attended public school last fall but has been home-schooled this semester.

The chief says he expects the investigation to wrap up by Friday and the findings to be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=8072369&nav=menu239_2

I'm curious as to what you all think about this. Should the parents be penalized, and if so what extent?

[Michael P]

Well, they obviously missed the part about "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test."

[mattx110]

Beaten with the prop cane from "House".


Didn't they see that episode?

Besides, prayer only works on those with good intentions, and it's hard to get cred with G-d by not providing necessary care for your daughter. Presumably.

[Radioactive Zombie]

In before raving Atheists get in, and fight with raving Christians.

No.

Anyway, if the state wants to pursue, it's... child neglect, I think?

[Just a Shadow]

I think they should be penalized and sterilized. The former for their mistake, the latter so their stupidity doesn't kill any more kids.

[mgs]

well, this ain't the first time this happened and it probably isn't going to be the last. I think nowadays it depends on their religion, state laws and whether or not someone tries to prosecute/sue them for negligence, like a relative.

Personally, while I think it's sad and stupid. I think you have to let people have their beliefs in a free country. But unless someone's particular religion/belief specifically states that one is not allowed to bring their sick to medically trained professionals, then yes, they should be held accountable for someone's death. not sure of the punishment, but definitely held responsible.

[Spike-X]

Should the parents be penalized...

Yes.

...and if so what extent?

To the extent that criminal negligence resulting in death is usually punished.

[Spike-X]

well, this ain't the first time this happened and it probably isn't going to be the last. I think nowadays it depends on their religion, state laws and whether or not someone tries to prosecute/sue them for negligence, like a relative.

Personally, while I think it's sad and stupid. I think you have to let people have their beliefs in a free country. But unless someone's particular religion/belief specifically states that one is not allowed to bring their sick to medically trained professionals, then yes, they should be held accountable for someone's death. not sure of the punishment, but definitely held responsible.
Fuck their religion. If an adult declines treatment for themself based on their religious (or whatever other) views, that's one thing. But denying life-saving medical treatment to a sick child is a criminal act, and should be treated as such.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Howy's ain't here, Spike missed it, so I'll get this one.

*ahem*

This is why we need the death penalty.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

She also says she's not concerned about a police investigation, because she and her husband believe their lives are in God's hands

Cause that worked out so well last time you tried it.

[mattx110]

Cause that worked out so well last time you tried it.
It's Schrödinger's God.

shout outz to Arthur Miller

[gary bolt]

The parents in this story may have been devout christians but it is important to realize that beyond that distinction they were huge fucking morons!

Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin says an autopsy showed the girl died from a type of diabetes that left her with too little insulin in her body. He says she had probably been ill for about 30 days.

The vast majority of children diagnosed with diabetes have no ability to produce insulin at all. Left undiagnosed it will kill anybody within 30 days.

But Leilani Neumann says her daughter was in good health until recently. The girl attended public school last fall but has been home-schooled this semester.


See above.

I have a brother and a sister who were diagnosed with juvenile (Type 1) diabetes when they were 3 years old and they are now 48 and 51. Go science!

[Spike-X]

The girl attended public school last fall but has been home-schooled this semester.

Guess they didn't want the schools filling her head with all that nonsense about 'science' and 'facts'.

[howyadoin]

Guess they didn't want the schools filling her head with all that nonsense about 'science' and 'facts'.Of course not. You teach kids that stuff, and the next thing you know they're dancing to that long-haired rock 'n' roll music.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Of course not. You teach kids that stuff, and the next thing you know they're dancing to that long-haired rock 'n' roll music.

Rock leads to drugs.

Drugs lead to sex.

Sex leads to orgasms.

Orgasms lead to happiness.

Happiness leads to hell.

It's a natural evolution (or whatever they call it instead).

[Winslow]

I'm curious as to what you all think about this. Should the parents be penalized, and if so what extent?

I think the parents should be charged as criminals. This is negligence that cost a child's life.

In before raving Atheists get in, and fight with raving Christians.

What are we going to argue about?

This one's pretty clear.

[Winslow]

I'm curious as to what you all think about this. Should the parents be penalized, and if so what extent?

I think the parents should be charged as criminals. This is negligence that cost a child's life.

In before raving Atheists get in, and fight with raving Christians.

What are we going to argue about?

This one's pretty clear.

[Tages]

Like Winslow, I am confused at this idea that Christians defend their coreligionists no matter what. These people belong to some weird fringe sect that doesn't derive from the teachings of Jesus as far as I can tell.

[Paul McEnery]

My first thought is that these poor parents need serious counselling. There's no way they wanted their daughter to die, and this is just tragic.

But my second thought was to reach for google:

An 11-year-old girl died from diabetes after her parents prayed for her recovery rather than calling for medical assistance.

Dale and Leilani Neumann and their daughter Madeline who died whilst they prayed
Dale and Leilani Neumann say they are not 'crazy religious people'.
But after Madeline died, they prayed that she might be resurrected

Madeline Neumann died on Sunday in Wisconsin, from an undiagnosed but treatable ailment.

Dan Vergin, the local police chief, said she had been ill for a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.

"She just got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.

Even after her death, her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, who did not belong to any organised faith, prayed over her body in the hope that she might be resurrected.

Mr Vergin said the couple, who run a coffee shop in Wausau, had blamed her death on their lack of faith.

"They have a little Bible study of a few people," said Mr Vergin. "These are not bizarre people."

Police are now preparing a report for prosecutors. However, legal action against the parents may be prevented by a Wisconsin state statute against failing to act to protect children from bodily harm.

The statute contains an exemption for what it refers to as "treatment through prayer". Mrs Neumann, whose husband is a former policeman, said they had never expected her daughter to die. She suffered from diabetic ketoacidosis, which left her with too little insulin.

She said her family believed in the Bible and that healing came from God. But she insisted that they were not "crazy religious people" and had nothing against doctors.

She said their daughter had been tired over the past two weeks but the day before she died, her bad health "went into a more serious situation". She explained: "We stayed fast in prayer. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that - to us - it looked like she was recovering."

Mr Neumann said he started trying artificial resuscitation "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

However, Madeline's aunt said she pleaded with the dead girl's parents to take her to a doctor in the last few days of her life. As Madeline went into a coma, Ariel Gomez telephoned the emergency services from her home in California. But they were too late to save her.

She told the ambulance control room that Mrs Neumann had "explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith".

The parents, who have three older children, told police that Madeline last saw a doctor when she was three to get some injections. The state law that allows healing through prayer became an issue in 2003 when a two-year-old autistic child in Milwaukee was crushed to death during an attempted exorcism.

The "exorcist" was convicted on a far lesser charge than many people believed was appropriate.

The local district attorney urged legislators to remove the exemption but they failed to act on his advice.

And I think we all see the problem there.

[Spike-X]

Fucking hell.

It's a good thing your country has separation of church and state.

[The Xenos]

I was walking by a Church of Christian Science bookstore today and wondering that we hadn't heard any big stories about them. Then again, this might have very well been another denomination. There are plenty of idiots in various denominations who would do that. Hell, even in my own church I'm sure there are some hicks who would do that.

As for punishment, I almost want to say that losing their daughter was enough, but these assholes don't seem to think they did anything wrong. Denial much? Maybe a minister who's sane should talk with them.

[Typo Lad]

I remember the Exorcist case.

I'm baffled how anyone reads the Bible and comes up with the idea that wellness is some kind of magical gift from G-d. Even in the written Torah, there are references to doctors and seeking them out. Some of the greatest religious thinkers were doctors (Maimonodies immediatly comes to mind).

If one accepts the existence of an all-knowing, all-powqerful G-d from whome all things flow, then one cannot deny that medical knowledge, the ability to heal the ill, comes from G-d as well.

Frankly, this could is not just guilty of killing their child, they've convicted an act of near-blasphemy. They've turned Jesus into Moloch.

[thehod]

It's a good thing your country has separation of church and state.

Maybe there should be seperation of church and stupidity as well.

[niall mc cann]

Of course not. You teach kids that stuff, and the next thing you know they're dancing to that long-haired rock 'n' roll music.

And injecting chemicals into their bodies.

Like insulin, for example.




And I think we all see the problem there.

How old is that piece of legislation?

Surely there can't be any serious opposition to removing it?

Although, I imagine, in everybody's defence, it probably didn't seem like there was any rush... this kind of idiocy boggles the mind.

[Tages]

I remember the Exorcist case.

I'm baffled how anyone reads the Bible and comes up with the idea that wellness is some kind of magical gift from G-d. Even in the written Torah, there are references to doctors and seeking them out. Some of the greatest religious thinkers were doctors (Maimonodies immediatly comes to mind).

If one accepts the existence of an all-knowing, all-powqerful G-d from whome all things flow, then one cannot deny that medical knowledge, the ability to heal the ill, comes from G-d as well.

Frankly, this could is not just guilty of killing their child, they've convicted an act of near-blasphemy. They've turned Jesus into Moloch.

I just realized that myself. That's pretty awful.

[Winslow]

I remember the Exorcist case.

I'm baffled how anyone reads the Bible and comes up with the idea that wellness is some kind of magical gift from G-d. Even in the written Torah, there are references to doctors and seeking them out. Some of the greatest religious thinkers were doctors (Maimonodies immediatly comes to mind).

If one accepts the existence of an all-knowing, all-powqerful G-d from whome all things flow, then one cannot deny that medical knowledge, the ability to heal the ill, comes from G-d as well.

Frankly, this could is not just guilty of killing their child, they've convicted an act of near-blasphemy. They've turned Jesus into Moloch.

That's insightful. And a tad frightening.

[Typo Lad]

Something else just hit me.

In this week's Torah Portion, we read the story of Nadav and Avihu, the sons of Aaron who are killed when they bring a "strange fire" into the Holy of Holies (where only Aaron could enter, and only on Yom Kippur).

There's a lot of discussion on this in the Talmud and modern commentary, but one view is the issue was not that the brothers were over-zealous in their desire to Worship or that they entered the yet-to-be consecrated Holy of Holyes, but that they did so unilaterally. Better they should have asked their father and uncle, the Rabbinic authorities, how they could worship.

We learn from that to always ask before we take on a stringency of any kind. I'm wondering... is there anyone this couple asked for guidance, or did they immediately say "this is what G-d wants" without asking those who speak for Him, according to their faith?

[Rabid Trekkie]

I remember the Exorcist case.

I'm baffled how anyone reads the Bible and comes up with the idea that wellness is some kind of magical gift from G-d. Even in the written Torah, there are references to doctors and seeking them out. Some of the greatest religious thinkers were doctors (Maimonodies immediatly comes to mind).

If one accepts the existence of an all-knowing, all-powqerful G-d from whome all things flow, then one cannot deny that medical knowledge, the ability to heal the ill, comes from G-d as well.

Frankly, this could is not just guilty of killing their child, they've convicted an act of near-blasphemy. They've turned Jesus into Moloch.

I think, could be wrong but doubt it, that this idea comes from a misunderstanding of the gifts of the spirit in the New Testament. One of the verses says that some people have the gift of healing, and some Christians automatically assume it means faith healing, instead of someone knowing how to heal people. They can accept wisdom and teaching being normal gifts and not going off the deep end with those, but it seems to me that with the rise of the televangelist healers the idea of healing was warped.

In my own congregation we had to stop one person from wrecking another's life, and one person from wrecking her own because of this stupid misunderstanding.
The first was this lady tried telling a man who found out one day he was in the last stage of a cancer that he didn't need a doctor but just needed to go on a full vegan diet and pray more. This lady is a zealous believer in the Adventist health message, but apparently the fact that we also started Loma Linda and its a great medical school went right over her head. The guy was in such bad shape that he almost went for it before some other members showed him some sense. He did change his diet to almost all vegetables, but still went to the doctors and did what they said. Now he's back and better than ever.
The second case was this lady who found out she had breast cancer and decided to pray it away, which would have left her three daughters motherless. This lady's own mother and several other women pretty much parked outside her house and hounded her till she finally caved and went to the doctors. Good thing too, the cancer had already started to spread and she only had a handful of months to live.

Moral of the story: The Lord helps those who help themselves.

[Typo Lad]

Moral of the story: The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Exactly.

Yes, one is supposed to pray, but one can't expect prayer to do all the work!

A kind, good man had spent his life devoted to the welfare of his family. But he had never managed to earn much money. Unfortunately, he fell ill and was told he had only a few months to live. He feared his family would soon be destitute without the little he brought home each week.

He earnestly prayed to his god with a request he had never made before. "Please God, let me win the NY State Lottery. It's not for myself. You know I'd never ask for anything for myself. But I'm concerned for my family." But Saturday came and went. Nothing. The following Wednesday he made the same request. Again, nothing. Weeks and months went by. He continued to pray. Nothing came of it.

Finally he was near death, anxious and sick at heart. "Why, God, did you not help me? I've never asked for anything before, and you know this was only for the good of others, not for me.

Silence for awhile. Then a great voice from above slowly replied, "First you have to buy a ticket."

Or...

Remember the old story about the man that was on his rooftop during a flood? A boat came by to rescue him and he waved the boat by with "God will save me." A helicopter came to lift him off the roof top and he told it to go away with the words, " God will save me." and so on until he drowned. When he got to heaven and met up with the Angels, he was very angry. "Where was God when I needed him," he moaned. The reply was, "Who do you think sent the boat and the helicopter."

[Winslow]

I believe in the miraculous gift of healing Trekkie.

I just don't believe it was ever intended to displace doctors.

In my experience, the gift works when medical options have been explored, and as a last resort.

I think my nephew, pictured below, is a good example. Doctors don't know how he survived:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c103/WinslowSolomon/Winslow_Nephew.jpg


And no, I'm not putting forth this as scientific evidence that prayer heals.

[Typo Lad]

Prayer can also, sadly, be useless. My best man had cystic fibrosis. Medical treatment, prayer, charity campaigns in his honor... everything. Nothing worked.

Even when he finally got his transplant, he developed cancer and passed.

My only answer is that for him, they answer to the prayer was to make the pain stop.

But note: Doctors were involved in both my scenario and yours Winslow. The key is, they weren't dimissed out of hand.

[Paradox]

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "no".

[DonC]

It's a shame this girl died. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

This was, obviously, meant as a joke, but sometimes you have to wonder if maybe it should be real.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Don3172/Smileys/bible.jpg

[Rabid Trekkie]

I believe in the miraculous gift of healing Trekkie.

I just don't believe it was ever intended to displace doctors.

In my experience, the gift works when medical options have been explored, and as a last resort.

I think my nephew, pictured below, is a good example. Doctors don't know how he survived:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c103/WinslowSolomon/Winslow_Nephew.jpg


And no, I'm not putting forth this as scientific evidence that prayer heals.

Oh I believe in miraculous healing as well, but like you said it's more something that happens when all medical options have been explored or when medical attention won't arrive in time.

I guess what my post should have said is that on this one spiritual gift, more and more people give it too much of a narrow definition. I believe that doctors have this gift of healing, just as teachers have the gift of teaching.

[stelok]

http://wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=8072369&nav=menu239_2

I'm curious as to what you all think about this. Should the parents be penalized, and if so what extent?

Ahh, another case of child abuse. There are really idiotic parents in this world.

I thought God helps people who help themselves.


I just found out the news about another incident involving babies in microwave, though it is very old.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/babysitter.asp

In December 13 2000, a Virginia woman was sentenced to five years in prison for killing her 1-month old son in a microwave oven.


Like the scumball who microwaved his daughter, she used insanity as her defense plea for the murder. I wonder if the insanity pleas are not the main reason why Joker hasn't been executed.

[Angelus II]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080327/ap_on_re_us/baby_in_microwave_9




I think that guy should be microwaved.
The punishment must fit the crime.

Didn't he say that the devil told him to do, or was that a different story.

[niall mc cann]

I believe that doctors have this gift of healing, just as teachers have the gift of teaching.

I have the gift of answering phones and taking other peoples crap.

:cool:

[Rabid Trekkie]

I have the gift of answering phones and taking other peoples crap.

:cool:

In the King James the Bible refers to that gift as long-suffering.

[Reptisaurus!]

I don't know what to say about this.
On the one hand you have the carzy stuff that goes on in NYC. Battery acid, blenders, locked in closets and not fed. Makes this one not seem so bad.
But it's all bad. Horrible actually. The 25 yr sentence makes since, but only if he gets boiled water thrown on him everyday. Everyday at 3 pm. No matter what he's doing.

SPLASH!!!!

"AAAAAAAGH!!!!"

I've learned something about myself.

I'm against the death penalty, but for cruel and unusual punishment, especially if it makes me laugh.

[K'Nort]

http://www.cartoonbank.com/Assets/1/124965_m.gif

[K'Nort]

I was walking by a Church of Christian Science bookstore today and wondering that we hadn't heard any big stories about them. Then again, this might have very well been another denomination. There are plenty of idiots in various denominations who would do that. Hell, even in my own church I'm sure there are some hicks who would do that.

The mainstream Christian Science folks are actually fine with doctors. I have an uncle who married into the faith, and converted, which made us very nervous. Especially once they had kids. But it's more practical than it sounds on the surface. They still go to the dentist and wear glasses and get all their shots. And emergencies are always given medical attention. I live several states away and thus never got to know her well enough to feel comfortable asking for details, but they're definitely a healthy, practical family overall. Major hippies, too. Which doesn't usually fit the fringe-religion stereotype.

[parrish]

This was kind of a funny followup to the gnome story.

If you are going to plan a hoax don't upload both takes to YouTube (http://uk.youtube.com/user/seleccionator)

[Grazzt]

This was kind of a funny followup to the gnome story.

If you are going to plan a hoax don't upload both takes to YouTube (http://uk.youtube.com/user/seleccionator)

Wrong thread. You want Weird News Roundup (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=58800&page=4&highlight=weird+news).

[parrish]

Wrong thread. You want Weird News Roundup (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=58800&page=4&highlight=weird+news).

Uuuggh...you are right...

This "quitting smoking" crap is gonna kill me.

[K'Nort]

Here's a pretty crappy prank (http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/03/29/206207.shtml). Does it qualify as a prank when it's basically assault? And it pre-dates April 01.

[mgs]

yikes, looks like they've got to start banning machetes as well. if they are not already....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080407/wl_nm/australia_school_dc

Psycho idiots deserve a lot of punishment, no matter their age.

[thehod]

This was all over our local paper the other day...

Row over Birmingham woman 'too big' for Drayton Manor Park funfair ride

BULKY Kirsty Warrilow threw a giant wobbly after being kicked off a theme park ride - for being too fat.

The 18-year-old, a size 22, says she was told to get off the Pandemonium ride at Drayton Manor Theme Park when attendants couldn't bring the safety bar down.

Kirsty, from Sheldon, said she felt humiliated by the experience and is demanding to know why theme parks do not make larger safety harnesses and bars for bigger people.

"The harness went across my stomach fine," said Kirsty.

"An attendant put her hand on the bar but couldn't get it to click into place. She called another member of staff who said I was too big for the ride.

"I felt silly and wanted to get off. I also think that they should make the rides a bit bigger and more suitable for bigger people. I'm sure they must think that you must be slim to go to a theme park and enjoy yourself."

But the Staffordshire theme park today vigorously rejected any claims of size discrimination and said they were just following strict health and safety ride guidelines.

Kirsty, who is 5ft 7ins, went to Drayton Manor, with her stepfather, sister Gina Price, aged 27, Gina's partner Mark and two step sisters, Stephanie, 15, and Jade, 13.

The family paid more than £100 for day tickets and were enjoying themselves until they took their seats on the Pandemonium ride, which the park says is guaranteed to 'turn your world upside down'.

The ride swings 64 riders 360 degrees at a height of nearly 25 metres and a force of 3.8G.

Kirsty, who cares full-time for her 48-year-old disabled mother Mary Price, said she "felt like the centre of attention" when told she couldn't ride by two attendants. I just had to get off and didn't want to cause a scene. It ruined the rest of my day," she said.

"My family were all disgusted, telling me to complain but I didn't want to because I didn't want to ruin everyone's day."

She added: "I feel very uncomfortable and won't go back there again until I've lost weight because I don't want to be embarrassed or discriminated against."

A spokesman for the park said: "Drayton Manor Theme Park regrets any offence but the safety of our visitors is paramount."

He added: "The ride computer would have registered that the safety bar was not in place and automatically prevented the ride from operating.

"All rides have restrictions.
"For example, very tall people cannot fit into the harnesses of Apocalypse."


If I was so big that the safety bar on a funfair ride wouldn't fit over my stomach, I'd be heading for the gym, not running to the press.

Stupid women.

[Paradox]

I tire of complaints from people with self-induced conditions not being accommodated by the world at large. The cases of medical reasons for obesity are reasonably rare. You did this to yourself, and now everyone is supposed to make sure you get taken care of? Forget it.

[DoctorDoom]

I tire of complaints from people with self-induced conditions not being accommodated by the world at large. The cases of medical reasons for obesity are reasonably rare. You did this to yourself, and now everyone is supposed to make sure you get taken care of? Forget it.
I really can't say I disagree.

[mattx110]

I really can't say I disagree.
Shut it skinny!


Ban fast-food! Institute a health-care system where people can afford to see nutritionists and develop a tailored exercise regimen without expensive gym membership fees!

Give us hope. As a nation. Hope.

[Dan Apodaca]

It's not just fast food. Places like IHOP or Applebees are filling the country with over-sized portions of fatty food.

[Paradox]

I'm a smoker. I don't go around bitching and complaining about how I'm treated (which is worse than fat people get, by far). I did this to myself. I assume responsibility for it. I wish others had the same world view.

[Paradox]

Dan Apodaca points the finger:

It's not just fast food. Places like IHOP or Applebees are filling the country with over-sized portions of fatty food.

It's neither. It's the person who decides shoveling mass amounts of such into their mouth is a good idea.

[Spike-X]

If I was so big that the safety bar on a funfair ride wouldn't fit over my stomach, I'd be heading for the gym, not running to the press.


You mean...take responsibility for your own condition, and take steps to improve it, rather than bitch and moan that reality won't re-shape itself to accommodate you? That's just crazy talk!

I also think that they should make the rides a bit bigger and more suitable for bigger people.

If they did that, the safety bars would be too big for all the people who haven't let themselves blow up to the size of a small garden shed. And they'd fall off. And die. Stupid fatty.

[Grazzt]

I missed this one.

Mother lets nine-year-old ride the subway by himself. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23935873/from/ET/)

I think the fact that there is a furor over this says something sad about our society.

Edit: The mother in question has also started a blog, Free Range Children (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/), devoted to dispelling misconceptions that parents have about their children's safety.

[Donald M.]

With all due respect, child abuse will only go away when we as a society - with the full backing of the law - start gathering these people up and kill them in public.


No, child abuse will go away when there are no more children.

As long as there are humans, there will be sick, twisted humans. What would more executions solve, exactly?

The reason why crime continues in spite of whatever punishment society dishes out? People are stupid; very few of us commit crimes expecting ever to get caught, rendering the consequences meaningless before the fact.

[Spike-X]

I missed this one.

Mother lets nine-year-old ride the subway by himself. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23935873/from/ET/)

I think the fact that there is a furor over this says something sad about our society.

Edit: The mother in question has also started a blog, Free Range Children (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/), devoted to dispelling misconceptions that parents have about their children's safety.
This woman is awesome. I've been reading up on this all morning. It's made me even more determined to raise children who won't let fear and suspicion dominate their lives.

[Donald M.]

This woman is awesome. I've been reading up on this all morning. It's made me even more determined to raise children who won't let fear and suspicion dominate their lives.

The kids are usually fine, its the parents letting fear and suspicion dominate their lives that are typically the problem.

[Spike-X]

Yeah, fair point.

Although kids who are raised that way often turn into the kind of parents who let fear and suspicion dominate their lives...and so on...

[mattx110]

Shocking News!

Terry Adams is 60. I mean, not till August, but still. The man looks young!

[Cam63]

Fuck their religion. If an adult declines treatment for themself based on their religious (or whatever other) views, that's one thing. But denying life-saving medical treatment to a sick child is a criminal act, and should be treated as such.

Yep, that's child neglect and they should be proscecuted.

[Titan76]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4768253&page=1

The horror that Elisabeth Fritzl has endured is etched into her aging face.

The gruesome details made headlines in European papers this week when she was found in an Austrian basement after 24 years of imprisonment.

Reportedly raped by her father at age 11, drugged and cast in a dungeonlike cellar at 18, and for months tied to a pole and offered the choice of sex or starvation, the daughter of Josef Fritzl has paid a heavy price.

In her underground prison, Elisabeth Fritzl bore seven children through incest and was never allowed to see daylight or interact with anyone other than her tormentor father and her children.

Now above ground and reunited with her mother and the three children she did not see for years, Fritzl looks haggard, hunched over, lined and gray. European media reports say the 42 year-old looks more like the sister of her 67-year-old mother than her daughter. And doctors say she will need an extensive, well-structured system of physical and psychiatric rehabilitation.

"This case is so unique, we can only look for approximations," Dr. Stuart Goldman, a psychiatrist at Harvard University's Children's Hospital in Boston, told ABCNEWS.com. "This would include long-term prisoners subject to extreme mental anguish and parents who have witnessed horrendous acts in some of the genocidal conflicts around the world."


The 'Walking Dead'
Goldman has worked with Cambodian survivors of the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge. Like Fritzl, they appeared to function normally but were plagued with residual symptoms.

"Some say they 'died' back when the events were occurring and felt like the walking dead," he said. Similar effects of post-traumatic stress disorder have been observed among Holocaust survivors.

In her first medical exam since she was found in the basement, Austrian doctors said Fritzl's teeth were horrifically decayed. She and her three children have complicated medical problems, including vitamin D deficiency, anemia and bad posture. Kerstin, her 19-year-old daughter, is in an induced coma after collapsing last week. She is still in a critical condition and fighting for her life.

Vitamin D deficiency can cause rickets, a disease of malnutrition caused by lack of sun exposure that is rarely seen today, according to Goldman. As a result, her bones are likely weakened and deformed. Because of the cramped space, low ceilings and little opportunity to exercise, Fritzl may also have problems with movement.

This has got to be one of the worst(if not the worst) incest/rape case I have ever heard about. I wish the guy could get the Death penalty but I don't think Austria allows it. There are three more pages to read at the link, this is just the first page. Read the other three pages because there are more details not said on the first page. Also one of the seven children died at birth so there are only six children alive right now with one barely hanging on.

Here's a link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/1915390/Artist's-impression-of-Elisabeth-Fritzl.html) that shows an artist picture of what Elisabeth Fritzl looks like right now. She looks more like she is 62 rather then 42.

[howyadoin]

This is why we need the death penalty.

[DWEarhart]

Please, people. Check you're own backyards; you're own neighborhoods. Shit like this is happening right under your noses.

The overbearing, glamorised, media-endorsed sexulisation of children/teens isn't helping things any.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Please, people. Check you're own backyards; you're own neighborhoods. Shit like this is happening right under your noses.

The overbearing, glamorised, media-endorsed sexulisation of children/teens isn't helping things any.

But there is something to be said about overprotection.

Not to mention it was her own father that was doing this shit to her.

[DWEarhart]

But there is something to be said about overprotection.

I agree on the overprotection bit. There is a fine balance between common sense and the desire to overprotect that can be established. Unfortunately, as I've experienced, the majority of the world is running out of common sense and is ending up with no sense.

Not to mention it was her own father that was doing this shit to her.

There are fathers and/or other family members doing horrible things to children everywhere everyday. This may be a new reported extreme, but it will not be the last one we hear about.

[Jack Zodiac]

This is why we need the death penalty.

I don't think Austria has the death penalty, and I'm glad. He doesn't deserve to be put to death, he deserves to live the rest of his life wearing a bed sheet prison bride's gown.

[Lord of Denial]

No matter how many times I see examples of the evil people are capable of it still shocks me.

As a parent it is something I cannot grasp at all. You are suppose to love your children more then you love yourself. You are suppose to put their needs above your own and be willing to do anything to protect and care for them.

How can some people just not care about that?

[JeffreyWKramer]

No matter how many times I see examples of the evil people are capable of it still shocks me.

As a parent it is something I cannot grasp at all. You are suppose to love your children more then you love yourself. You are suppose to put their needs above your own and be willing to do anything to protect and care for them.

How can some people just not care about that?

Some people are psychopaths. Their wiring is faulty in a manner that makes them incapable of empathy, and so care only about themselves.

I'm guessing this guy fits is one example. See also Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, etc.

[Lord of Denial]

Some people are psychopaths. Their wiring is faulty in a manner that makes them incapable of empathy, and so care only about themselves.

I'm guessing this guy fits is one example. See also Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, etc.

Not every psychopath is a sadistic monster willing to go to these extremes.

Having a lack of empathy is one thing but there has to be a trigger that sets them apart from those that don't harm anyone.

Is it childhood abuse? Brain Damage? Mental illness? All three?

[StoneGold]

Please, people. Check you're own backyards; you're own neighborhoods. Shit like this is happening right under your noses.

The overbearing, glamorised, media-endorsed sexulisation of children/teens isn't helping things any.

You're right. If you haven't found something like this in your own neighborhood, it's still going on, and it's all your fault for not stopping it.

[Lord of Denial]

You're right. If you haven't found something like this in your own neighborhood, it's still going on, and it's all your fault for not stopping it.

He's not saying that at all.

[howyadoin]

I don't think Austria has the death penalty, and I'm glad.Get your sarcasmometer checked, buddy.

You're right. If you haven't found something like this in your own neighborhood, it's still going on, and it's all your fault for not stopping it.And this is why we need the death penalty.

[Jack Zodiac]

Get your sarcasmometer checked, buddy.

Fuck you, asshole! I'm sober.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Not every psychopath is a sadistic monster willing to go to these extremes.

Having a lack of empathy is one thing but there has to be a trigger that sets them apart from those that don't harm anyone.

Is it childhood abuse? Brain Damage? Mental illness? All three?

The specific form psychopathy takes depends mostly on environment and experience. You take a person with psychopathic neurogenetic traits and bring them up in a well-to-do environment with good resources and access to money and education and you end up with an Enron executive or Karl Rove or a member of the extended Kennedy clan. You take a person with the same propensitiies and have him grow up in an environment of crime and violence and poverty and where the use of violence as a problem-solving strategy is modeled, and you might get a stone-cold killer gang member. Take the same propensity, apply and demonstrate lots of degradation, humiliation and abuse and you get a serial rapist or serial murderer.

Biology creates a psychopath, environment and experience add the details.

[howyadoin]

He's not saying that at all.Well, what is actually being said here that justifies giving this story its own thread? So far I'm not seein' much besides bullshit internet outrage.

[Donald M.]

Well, what is actually being said here that justifies giving this story its own thread? So far I'm not seein' much besides bullshit internet outrage.

Yeah. This is a horrible story, but what can be said about it that hasn't been said about all the other horrible stories people have started threads about.

The world sucks and there's not much we as individuals can do about it. End of useful discussion.

[beetheb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/nyregion/06rape.html?ex=1370491200&en=bc60cf51266f5a15&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

This story is extremely graphic, and definitely not for the squeamish.

Prosecutor Details Rape That Lasted 19 Hours
By JOHN ELIGON
Published: June 6, 2008

The time crept by so slowly and painfully that the 23-year-old Columbia University journalism student had decided it was time to end her life.

Over many torturous hours, she had been repeatedly raped, sodomized and forced to perform oral sex, a prosecutor told a jury on Thursday. The accused, Robert A. Williams, 31, had doused the woman’s face and body with boiling water and bleach, forced her to swallow handfuls of pills and to chase them with beer, sealed her mouth with glue, and bound her wrists and legs with shoelaces, cords and duct tape, said the prosecutor, Ann P. Prunty. And now, Ms. Prunty said, he was asking the woman to gouge out her own eyes with a pair of scissors.

And so the woman, sitting on the floor of her studio apartment in Hamilton Heights and holding a pair of scissors between her knees — the blade pointing toward her face — tried to stop the suffering. She lowered her face to the blade, but turned her head at the last moment, trying to stab herself in the neck instead of her eyes.

The scissors slipped from her grasp, the suicide attempt failed, and the woman suffered several more hours of torture, Ms. Prunty said.

The woman survived the nearly 19-hour ordeal, which ended, Ms. Prunty said, when she used a fire started by Mr. Williams to burn the cords that secured her wrists to a futon.

Mr. Williams went on trial Thursday in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, where he faces 71 criminal counts, including attempted murder, rape, arson and assault. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life in prison.

Mr. Williams, who was homeless at the time of his arrest about a week later at the scene of a burglary in Queens, has a lengthy police record dating to his childhood, the authorities have said.

He was charged in a murder as a juvenile, though the outcome of that case is sealed, a law enforcement official said, and he spent eight years in prison for an attempted-murder conviction in 1996.

The prosecution began presenting its case with Ms. Prunty’s vivid, step-by-step account of the attack, which she said began about 10 p.m. on April 13, 2007, and lasted until 4 p.m. the following afternoon. Mr. Williams’s lawyer, Arnold J. Levine, did not make an opening statement. Outside the courtroom, Mr. Levine declined to talk about his strategy. In hearings before the trial, he seemed to indicate that he would challenge witnesses’ identification of his client.

The victim and several witnesses in the six-story apartment building where the woman lived picked out Mr. Williams from lineups, Ms. Prunty said. She said that DNA evidence also linked him to the crime.

Justice Carol Berkman, who is presiding over the trial, found in October that Mr. Williams was mentally fit for trial. After that decision, Mr. Levine said he was considering a mental illness defense.

As Ms. Prunty delivered her opening statement, Mr. Williams sat slouched in his chair, with his head tilted downward.

On the night of the attack, the victim, a month from graduating with a master’s degree, was at Columbia, putting the final touches on her résumé for a job fair the next day, Ms. Prunty said. When she arrived at her apartment building, she got on the elevator and found Mr. Williams inside, Ms. Prunty said. She rode with him to her floor, and could hear him follow her as she navigated the long L-shaped hallway to her apartment.

As the woman entered her apartment, Ms. Prunty said, Mr. Williams asked her if she knew where a Mrs. Evans lived. The woman stopped to answer.

“Her kind moment of hesitation would cost her,” Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams forced his way into the apartment, Ms. Prunty said, put the woman in a chokehold, and slapped her cellphone from her hand. Mr. Williams slammed the door behind him, and “her Friday the 13th nightmare began,” Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams turned a clock by the woman’s bed to the wall and made her take off her watch so she would not know what time it was, Ms. Prunty said. He raped her repeatedly and cut her hair because “he wanted to see her face, her fear and humiliation.”

He made her sit in her bathtub, and that was the first time he told her to gouge her eyes, Ms. Prunty said. He punished her for refusing by boiling water in a kettle and throwing it on her, the prosecutor said. The water jolted her so much that she broke through the bonds on her wrist, Ms. Prunty said, as the skin on her chest, torso and thighs blistered. (On hearing this detail, one of the jurors shook his head and covered his mouth.)

“Just kill me! Just kill me!” the woman pleaded, Ms. Prunty said.

Later, after her failed attempt to kill herself with the scissors, Mr. Williams threw a heavy object at the back of her head, cracking her skull, Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams was intent on damaging her vision because, Ms. Prunty said, “a blind witness could never identify her attacker.”

Mr. Williams eventually slit the woman’s eyelids and face with a butcher knife, Ms. Prunty said, but she did not lose her vision. He fastened her legs and arms to a futon, and she lost consciousness.

When she awoke, she again pleaded for him to kill her, but heard no response. He was gone.

Mr. Williams “only stopped when he could no longer feel the scourge of control over another human being,” Ms. Prunty said.

The woman smelled smoke, Ms. Prunty said, so she wriggled her legs free and pulled the futon away from the wall. She used the fire to free her arms, Ms. Prunty said, and then ran through the smoke to her door. It took her several attempts to open it because her hands were limp and numb, Ms. Prunty said.

The woman ran through her hallway seeking help, Ms. Prunty said, “an image of the walking, living dead.”Being the father of two daughters, and just a human in general, it scares the shit out of me that people like this exist.

[DWEarhart]

Welcome to your backyard, brudda.

I don't know what else to tell you.

[beetheb]

Welcome to your backyard, brudda.

I don't know what else to tell you.Nothing to tell, really. It's an ugly reality. I realize this.

[pariah-1972]

I saw on the news yesterday that an old man was ran over by a car when he was trying to cross the road.
Watching the video was really scary that someone could run over somebody and not even stop much less go back and check on the person you just completely ran over.

That being said he was an old man trying to cross a busy street where there was no lights or crosswalk.

[DWEarhart]

Nothing to tell, really. It's an ugly reality. I realize this.

I've researched and studied these kinds of whackos through the years; even worked with former FBI profilers at my university.

It is an ugly world if you choose to see it that way. But you don't have to. I'm on the other side of the looking glass.

Somebody has to. Might as well be me.

[Sir Tim Drake]

EDIT: Stories like this make me question my opposition to the death penalty.

[beetheb]

I've researched and studied these kinds of whackos through the years; even worked with former FBI profilers at my university.

It is an ugly world if you choose to see it that way. But you don't have to. I'm on the other side of the looking glass.

Somebody has to. Might as well be me.So being on the other side of the looking glass, that would make this...beautiful?

Not sure where you're going with that one, DW.

[Sean Whitmore]

Mr. Williams went on trial Thursday in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, where he faces 71 criminal counts, including attempted murder, rape, arson and assault. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life in prison.

"Rest of his"...? New York doesn't have the death penalty?


He was charged in a murder as a juvenile, though the outcome of that case is sealed, a law enforcement official said, and he spent eight years in prison for an attempted-murder conviction in 1996.

Y'know, this is a really stupid country sometimes. This isn't some guy that just snapped. We had him TWICE, and we let him go.


SEAN

[Ontir]

This story is extremely graphic, and definitely not for the squeamish.

Being the father of two daughters, and just a human in general, it scares the shit out of me that people like this exist.

It is truly dreadful.

I'm still opposed to the death penalty. He should be locked away forever. Knowing that he has no escape from captivity - ever.

[Sean Whitmore]

It is truly dreadful.

I'm still opposed to the death penalty. He should be locked away forever. Knowing that he has no escape from captivity - ever.

He should have gotten that for the attempted murder in 1996.


SEAN

[Ontir]

I'm in complete agreement.

Essentially, our Healthcare system has to be re-constructed, because a great many of the worst people in and released from prisons have mental issues that have not been dealt with. They're then institutionalized, whether in hospitals or prisons, where they often get no or little proper treatment. Dealing with people (like my cousin) who have deformed brains and schizofrenia and psychopathy early is the key.

Prisons are now a huge industry in America, with an indentured servitude workforce that produces Victoria's Secret and Levi Strauss, among many other brands of clothing and assorted goods, all the while being used to marginalize segments of our society by removing voting rights, etc. It's a damaged/damaging system that costs a great deal, and weakens our society.

[mgs]

"Rest of his"...? New York doesn't have the death penalty?
</p>
nope, not for a while now, I believe. I'm for the death penalty, not in cases where there are questions, but blunt ones like this..this guy doesn't deserve it. He deserves to be tortured with maximum pain until death.

[Spike-X]

Prisons are now a huge industry in America, with an indentured servitude workforce that produces Victoria's Secret and Levi Strauss, among many other brands of clothing and assorted goods, all the while being used to marginalize segments of our society by removing voting rights, etc.

Which shows that the War On Drugs is just an end run around the abolition of slavery.

[thehod]

So apparently a mom in New York has let her son ride the subway by himself.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7449795.stm) has a nice piece on it.

I think the obvious question here is, is the death penalty deserved, and who's the one that has to go to the chair?

[Slam_Bradley]

So apparently a mom in New York has let her son ride the subway by himself.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7449795.stm) has a nice piece on it.

I think the obvious question here is, is the death penalty deserved, and who's the one that has to go to the chair?


Ahhh...I love the hyperbole. Yes, she's clearly the worst mother in the world. This is infinitely worse than the mother's who stick their kids in the microwave.

[Typo Lad]

That's pretty old news in NY. It's part of a whole movement (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/).

[thespianphryne]

What the . . .

My god is there nothing else left to write about?

The children! Won't somebody think of the children?

[petriacce]

This child obviously has a good head on his shoulders and kudos to his parents for weighing the idea and giving it a thumbs up. Children need real life lessons and really don't need to be so damn coddled. I think a real horrible mom would allow her child to stay holed up in an apartment every day rotting away so he/she is "safe".

Didn't people use to mind their own business?

[Slam_Bradley]

This child obviously has a good head on his shoulders and kudos to his parents for weighing the idea and giving it a thumbs up. Children need real life lessons and really don't need to be so damn coddled. I think a real horrible mom would allow her child to stay holed up in an apartment every day rotting away so he/she is "safe".

Didn't people use to mind their own business?


ummm...yes and no. Once upon a time, news was news. This isn't news. Walter Cronkite would not have reported this.

However, when I was growing up, people kept an eye out for their neighbors kids. And they didn't hesitate to upbraid them if they were screwing up. There were easily a half dozen neighbors who would have clipped my ears if they'd caught us kids doing stuff that our parents didn't want us doing. And my folks would have thanked them for it.

[Michael P]

That's pretty old news in NY. It's part of a whole movement (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/).

I'm sorry, but when I read that name, I think of the Treehouse of Horror where the school faculty started eating the students.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Armpit Fetish Molester Gets 14 Years (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/armpit-fetish-molester-gets-14-years-jail/2008/06/13/1213283213487.html)
A molester with a fixation for smelling women's armpits was sentenced to 14 years in jail and ordered caned 18 times, news reports said.

Mohammed Ismail Ariffin, 36, was convicted of molesting 23 females from girls as young as nine to women in their 50s, The Straits Times said.

Community Court Judge James Leong imposed a preventive detention sentence, a jail term for hardcore prisoners with no chance of parole.

Mohammed Ismail stalked his victims and followed them into lifts, staircase landings or their homes. In some cases, he restrained them.

Apart from sniffing his victims' armpits, Mohammed Ismail also was guilty of fondling a 13-year-old and exposing himself to a 53-year- old cleaner, the court found.

Following a report from a housewife that a man had smelled her armpit on January 3, the police took a semen swab at the scene which led them to Mohammed Ismail.

A detention report submitted to the court said the man's crime pattern put him in a group with more than a 62-per-cent chance of committing crimes again within two years of release from prison.

Pleading for leniency, lawyer Noor Mohamed Marican urged the judge to send Mohammed Ismail for a rehabilitative program and medical treatment instead of imposing a long sentence.

"The facts of the case speak for themselves," Leong was quoted as saying.

The judge said he found "precious little" in Mohammed Ismail's favour, except that he pleaded guilty.

He had previous convictions since 1991 for drug and sex-related offences.

Armpits dude.

[Chris Nowlin]

EDIT: Stories like this make me question my opposition to the death penalty.

I hem and haw about it all the time.

But then I learn about mothers letting their kids ride the subways...

[Your Imaginary Pal]

So apparently a mom in New York has let her son ride the subway by himself.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7449795.stm) has a nice piece on it.

I think the obvious question here is, is the death penalty deserved, and who's the one that has to go to the chair?

schools issue(or they did when I was in school) students bus and train passes, this is nothing new. Nothing scary. My brother went to middle school by himself and he transfered from elementary school in the fifth grade, that required him to travel to school on his own. As the other 4 of us went to school 2 blocks away and he was going to school about half a mile in the other direction.

When you live in New York, it's not nearly as scary as when you read about it, maybe it's because...we're the monsters!!!!!


yikes.

[Chris Nowlin]

Armpits dude.

Got the makings of a super-villain there.

[Paul McEnery]

So apparently a mom in New York has let her son ride the subway by himself.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7449795.stm) has a nice piece on it.

I think the obvious question here is, is the death penalty deserved, and who's the one that has to go to the chair?

One New York child could take all ten of Birmingham's hardest men with one arm tied behind her back.

[thehod]

One New York child could take all ten of Birmingham's hardest men with one arm tied behind her back.

Now sure, but that's only because all the Zulu Warriors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Zulus) are now on zimmer frames.

[Spike-X]

Got the makings of a super-villain there.

http://i29.tinypic.com/2gx3cix.jpg

[Black Atom]

Your ward, Speedy...

...IS A JUNKIE!

[Paradox]

Spike-X snaps one in the wild:

http://i29.tinypic.com/2gx3cix.jpg

Good lord. You can just see "I'll show them...I'll show them ALL!" written all over his face. :biggrin:

[thehod]

Good lord. You can just see "I'll show them...I'll show them ALL!" written all over his face. :biggrin:

Who's face? I haven't got past the two in the foreground yet.

[K'Nort]

Apparently it's wacky Candian news week.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23845.aspx

[Paradox]

Good lord. That's even dumber than the teacher dismissed for being "a wizard" because he did a cheap slight of hand trick in class.

[pariah-1972]

Apparently it's wacky Candian news week.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23845.aspxThat sounds like something out of that really bizzare soap opera.

[Paul McEnery]

Apparently it's wacky Candian news week.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23845.aspx

Out of interest, K'nort, where did you come across this item? Do you read citynews regularly, or were you directed there?

I'm interested because, as you say, it's wacky Canadian news week. But my spider sense is detecting an intentional campaign of seeding stories in minor Canadian news sources or wire services, then redistributing them elsewhere. So I'm wondering where you picked up on this one.

[K'Nort]

Out of interest, K'nort, where did you come across this item? Do you read citynews regularly, or were you directed there?

I'm interested because, as you say, it's wacky Canadian news week. But my spider sense is detecting an intentional campaign of seeding stories in minor Canadian news sources or wire services, then redistributing them elsewhere. So I'm wondering where you picked up on this one.

A friend in Louisiana emailed it. She reads a zillion feeders and belongs to many listservs, so no idea where she got it.

[Paul McEnery]

A friend in Louisiana emailed it. She reads a zillion feeders and belongs to many listservs, so no idea where she got it.

A-HA!

Well, that goes some ways towards cementing my thoughts, then.

[Spike-X]

Apparently it's wacky Candian news week.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23845.aspx
Canada needs to move away from the US. The stupid is spreading.

A psychic. Fucking hell.

[Paul McEnery]

Canada needs to move away from the US. The stupid is spreading.

A psychic. Fucking hell.

So, hands up everyone who think this is the whole story.

And hands up everyone who thinks the story has been sensationalized to make a point.

[Spike-X]

I've not doubt it's been somewhat sensationalised. That's business as usual for mainstream media these days, especially when TEH CHILDRENZ!!! are involved.

So, what do you think they're not telling us?

[socool8520]

Howy's gone to bed, so I'll get this one.

*ahem*

This is why we need the death penalty.

It was in Texas right? We have one and it's kind of one of our favorite past times outside of football and beer.

[K'Nort]

So, hands up everyone who think this is the whole story.

And hands up everyone who thinks the story has been sensationalized to make a point.

Do you think Child Services was wrong and the mother is actually suspicious?

[Paul McEnery]

I've not doubt it's been somewhat sensationalised. That's business as usual for mainstream media these days, especially when TEH CHILDRENZ!!! are involved.

So, what do you think they're not telling us?

What they're not telling us is not as important as what they are telling us ("an almost unbelievable tale of red tape"), which is why they're being spread as internet stories.

Canada Liberal Disinfo Watch Tally:
1) They're making Christianity illegal!
2) They're taking away our right to discipline our own children!
3) They're accusing us of abusing our own children!

All of these things will happen in America if you let Obama win, of course.

What will the next story be, I wonder?

So, a rewrite of the story might go something like this.

Teacher sees the kid acting inappropriately sexual -- which the story as printed instances. But the teacher doesn't quite know what to do or and feeling insecure (teacher?; actually, no; educational assistant -- ooh, I seem to remember Gilda having trouble with one of those), so she goes off and asks a psychic.

Whacky! But perhaps not quite as whacky as all that. She was just checking in with a sounding board so she could make her own mind up what she wanted to do.

It's a bit of a contorted decision-making process (well, an insane one which I doubt does much for this education assistant's longterm career plans), but if in doubt, bring in Child Advisory Services. (Huh. That's interesting. That's what I thought it would be called. Children's Aid Society is a bit iffier.)

Now, as we all know, I've had friends who've been fucked around by the government for stuff like this, so I don't take false accusations lightly. But at the same time, I don't take genuine indications of child abuse lightly either. So what's a school supposed to do but bring in the professionals to sort it out?

And what I notice here is that the investigation isn't closed yet, but the woman's decided to aggressively defend herself in the press, playing up the psychic angle for all it's worth, while throwing subsidiary charges at the school, and making a pitch for 50 Grand's worth of IBI

How interesting.

I also notice that the story stirs the pot a bit by including the tantalizing detail that the mother has recently acquired a new fiance. I don't know what we're supposed to take from that tidbit, but I can tell it's supposed to keep the story alive through wagging tongues.

[Chris Nowlin]

The point is a psychic got cited concerning a child's welfare.

The only way they could sensationalise this story to the point where the basic truth got lost would be to make up the psychic.

Assume everything else to be spin or whatever you want. If the principal cited a psychic as evidence, something's crazy.

[K'Nort]

And what I notice here is that the investigation isn't closed yet, but the woman's decided to aggressively defend herself in the press, playing up the psychic angle for all it's worth, while throwing subsidiary charges at the school, and making a pitch for 50 Grand's worth of IBI

How interesting.

That's not automatically guilt/abuse on her part. Could be simple opportunism. There's no question that the child needs expensive care. Maybe she's just taking advantage of an opportunity to get it. Still gaming the system? Yes. But that's a lesser sin.


Overall, tying it into any anti-Obama conspiracy seems pretty paranoid though. That's a lot of effort for something most people won't connect the dots on.

[Paul McEnery]

That's not automatically guilt/abuse on her part. Could be simple opportunism. There's no question that the child needs expensive care. Maybe she's just taking advantage of an opportunity to get it. Still gaming the system? Yes. But that's a lesser sin.


Overall, tying it into any anti-Obama conspiracy seems pretty paranoid though. That's a lot of effort for something most people won't connect the dots on.

Exactly the point. That's what makes Canada an excellent repository for this kind of thing. You can run up scare stories with absolute deniability. Hey, we're just looking at whacky stories!

I admit I'm influenced in my thinking about how various people are using the internet to spread disinformation by Ken MacLeod's excellent novel (now out in trade) The Execution Channel, which goes into some detail about it.

[gary bolt]

Apparently it's wacky Candian news week.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23845.aspx

It's also bizarre a gruesome Canadian news week.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080620.LFEET20/TPStory/National

[Paradox]

Paul McEnery yells CONSPIRSAH!:

Exactly the point. That's what makes Canada an excellent repository for this kind of thing. You can run up scare stories with absolute deniability. Hey, we're just looking at whacky stories!

Which also would make it totally ineffectual, as Americans in general think Canada is our backwards neighbor that we're way better than. :wink:

Personally, I think you were just bored today.

[pariah-1972]

Why is Canada not allowed to have weird crazy things happen to them?

[gary bolt]

Which also would make it totally ineffectual, as Americans in general think Canada is our backwards neighbor that we're way better than. :wink:

Personally, I think you were just bored today.

Are you forgetting about Texas?






















Louisiana?














Alabama?















Arkansas?
















Florida?














California?

[Paradox]

I didn't say they were RIGHT, just that they thought that. :biggrin:

[Puma]

It's also bizarre a gruesome Canadian news week.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080620.LFEET20/TPStory/National

You know, Morna had an awful lot of free time lately, and she'd been biking a lot, and 'going' to a certain movie. Could've been an elaborate ruse while she stalked the unsocked.

[Paul McEnery]

Which also would make it totally ineffectual, as Americans in general think Canada is our backwards neighbor that we're way better than. :wink:
.

Actually, that's exactly it.

Plant a few scare stories about Canada and SEE, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET LIBERALS RUN YOUR COUNTRY.

[Paradox]

But "we" don't think of Canadians as liberals, but rather lumberjacks. :biggrin:

[Athena Bast]

But "we" don't think of Canadians as liberals, but rather lumberjacks. :biggrin:

Well the Conservative Party is in power right now with Prime Minister Stephen Harper. He's what you call Personality Minus.

We just had our Foreign Affairs Minister resign because he left some Top Secret papers on a table on a private jet that his girlfriend who was without government clearance saw.

[MacQuarrie]

That's pretty old news in NY. It's part of a whole movement (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/).

It's about damn time.

I wrote about it in 2002. I'm genuinely shocked that it's taken this long for anyone else to catch on.

If you're overprotecting your children you are doing them irreparable harm and failing to equip them to be functional adults.

You are creating A Nation of Wimps. (http://www.monkeyspit.net/rantman/wimps.php)

God bless that woman with the good sense and courage to let her kid out of her sight.