Legion of Super-Heroes, Final Crisis & The Legion Of Three Worlds *SPOILERS*

[Paul Newell]

From the Countdown to Crisis panel:

CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=13115):
Didio regarding the “Legion of Superheroes” 50th anniversary: “we'll come up with something, I promise.”
Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Wondercon08/DCCountdown.html):
Plans for the 50th Anniversary of the Legion of Super-Heroes? "You will see the Legion of Super-Heroes, you will see the Legion of Super-Heroes, and you will see the Legion of Super-Heroes in the DC Universe #0"

It's been revealed that Geoff Johns is writing a Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series. It's been shown, in the preview art for DC Universe #0 that George Perez is pencilling the Lightning Saga Legion portion of the issue.

My guess is from all this, plus other odds and ends appearing around the net that they will the creative team on one of the two mini-series that will run concurrently with Final Crisis and it will be the often mentioned "Legion of Three Worlds" story. Plus, going from the fact that the Legion are fighting the Shadow Demons that it'll be the "Crisis in the 31st Century", mentioned by Brainiac 5, that'll tie up the loose ends from the Lightning Saga and reveal who's in the lightning rod.

If I'm right, I can't wait! :)

[protege]

It has? i haven't read the legion in years, but i might pick this one up, depending on WHICH LEGION IS IN IT.

[Will.S]

From the Countdown to Crisis panel:

CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=13115):

Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Wondercon08/DCCountdown.html):


It's been revealed that Geoff Johns is writing a Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series. It's been shown, in the preview art for DC Universe #0 that George Perez is pencilling the Lightning Saga Legion portion of the issue.

My guess is from all this, plus other odds and ends appearing around the net that they will the creative team on one of the two mini-series that will run concurrently with Final Crisis and it will be the often mentioned "Legion of Three Worlds" story. Plus, going from the fact that the Legion are fighting the Shadow Demons that it'll be the "Crisis in the 31st Century", mentioned by Brainiac 5, that'll tie up the loose ends from the Lightning Saga and reveal who's in the lightning rod.

If I'm right, I can't wait! :)
Yeah I saw those as well, I think that's the big story we've all been waiting for to answer the questions about both of the Legion teams seen in Lightning Saga/Action Comics and the Waid/Shooter Legion.

[Joe Acro]

Plus, going from the fact that the Legion are fighting the Shadow Demons that it'll be the "Crisis in the 31st Century", mentioned by Brainiac 5, that'll tie up the loose ends from the Lightning Saga and reveal who's in the lightning rod.
I don't know about that one. According to Starman, the Legion of Three Worlds story already happened by the time of Lightning Saga. It would be odd if the Crisis and that story were the same, unless it affects each Legion at multiple times in their history.

[Paul Newell]

It has? i haven't read the legion in years, but i might pick this one up, depending on WHICH LEGION IS IN IT.
Well from the sounds of it...you get three to choose from. :)

[Paul Newell]

I don't know about that one. According to Starman, the Legion of Three Worlds story already happened by the time of Lightning Saga. It would be odd if the Crisis and that story were the same, unless it affects each Legion at multiple times in their history.
I was thinking, either that or this'll be a "sequel" to the "first" meeting of the three Legions. The original team up would only be seen in flashback, or something like that.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

They've already established that the Waid/Kitson LSH is the Legon of "New Earth". So that'd make the Silver Age Legion from....Earth-1?

[Paul Newell]

They've already established that the Waid/Kitson LSH is the Legon of "New Earth". So that'd make the Silver Age Legion from....Earth-1?
No-one knows yet. Much speculation has been speculated. :)

There are hints, though. There's ben speculation that the WaK Legion is from an "Earth-Prime" due to the amount of memorabilia shown in the early days of the series...Particularly copies of DC Comics. But then there's the New Earth Supergirl's membership.

Then again, it's been mentioned by the "original" Legion that they change "vibrational frequency" when travelling in time...So they could very well be from Earth-One. But why interact with the New Earth Superman?

No-one knows just which is the New Earth Legion yet.

[David Atkins]

I don't know about that one. According to Starman, the Legion of Three Worlds story already happened by the time of Lightning Saga.

Being that the character has broken the Fourth Wall and is all crazy and stuff (not to mention a time traveler), it'd be pretty easy to handwave anything Starman has said pertaining to any timeline. :)

[titanfan]

I actually think it would be cool if the Legion were involved in their own crisis during Final Crisis instead of not-involved like they usually are during the big crossovers.

[botch]

No-one knows yet. Much speculation has been speculated. :)

There are hints, though. There's ben speculation that the WaK Legion is from an "Earth-Prime" due to the amount of memorabilia shown in the early days of the series...Particularly copies of DC Comics. But then there's the New Earth Supergirl's membership.

Then again, it's been mentioned by the "original" Legion that they change "vibrational frequency" when travelling in time...So they could very well be from Earth-One. But why interact with the New Earth Superman?

No-one knows just which is the New Earth Legion yet.

Even if Geoff Johns and Mark Waid both said that the Waid/Kitson Legion was the first look at New Earth post infinite crisis. Usually when the dues behind it state a fact then it is fact.

[hondobrode]

the LOSH traveling through dimensions and / or time, thus showing the various layers of the Megaverse, and possibly disrupting / destabilizing them i.e. inadvertantly causing the Crisis.

Hopefully the LOSH will be restored as a fan favorite powerhouse like they truly deserve. The LOSH should be DC's X-franchise IMO without all the spin-off titles.

[Gloom Cookie]

What Legion is going to remain after this is what I'm wondering. I really hope we get characters like XS, Gates, Shikari and Kinetix back. I liked all of them.

[Denny Colt]

From the Countdown to Crisis panel:

CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=13115):

Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Wondercon08/DCCountdown.html):


It's been revealed that Geoff Johns is writing a Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series. It's been shown, in the preview art for DC Universe #0 that George Perez is pencilling the Lightning Saga Legion portion of the issue.

My guess is from all this, plus other odds and ends appearing around the net that they will the creative team on one of the two mini-series that will run concurrently with Final Crisis and it will be the often mentioned "Legion of Three Worlds" story. Plus, going from the fact that the Legion are fighting the Shadow Demons that it'll be the "Crisis in the 31st Century", mentioned by Brainiac 5, that'll tie up the loose ends from the Lightning Saga and reveal who's in the lightning rod.

If I'm right, I can't wait! :)

I hope you're right, too, Paul. I'm thoroughly enjoying both icarnations out there right now (I'm not as interested in the DnA version, although I know others love it). As I've mentioned before, my ten-year old son and I are reading them together. He totally gets that they are different versions. He also totally gets that the Action version is not the original version but a version that is "like" the original version. I'm under the impression that it's usually the adults that have trouble keeping things sorted out, not the kids. Anyway, I'm ready for a smash-bang, three-way team-up, multi-part cross over. And hey, why not throw in the JLA, JSA, and CSA, just fer laughs?

[Paul Newell]

From today's Lying In The Gutters (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13)
Geoff Johns is also writing a Final Crisis-spinoff "Legion" mini series drawn by George Perez that will slot into all of this very nicely.

So we've gone beyond "Speculation stage" and we're now at "Rumour stage". :)

[Babylon23]

Sounds interesting. I'm up for it. Of course, my favourite version of the Legion is the 5YL group, but I doubt we'll ever see that group again.

[Paul Newell]

The latest from Wizard World LA:

CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=13366):
As to exactly which Legion of Super-Heroes Geoff Johns will be writing in the rumored miniseries mentioned in LYING IN THE GUTTERS, DiDio declined to comment, but Bob Wayne said, "Aren't there two or three versions in 'Action Comics'? I'd say he's writing all of them."
A fan asked what the response is like to Shooter's "Legion of Super-Heroes?" DiDio turned that question to the crowd, asking "Do you guys like Shooter's Legion?"

"No," said one fan. "It's so flat. There's no tone to it. All the characters seem to be replacable with each other. The storyline doesn't seem to be going anywhere."

DiDio then asked fans to raise their hands if they liked the Giffen/Levitz Legion, then the Legion Lost group, and then the Waid/Kitson version. Hands were raised for each group. "If we did a book called 'Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes,' would you buy that?"

"You got the Superboy name back?" asked a fan.

"I said if!" DiDio said. He then asked the LA crowd why they liked the idea of Superboy as part of the Legion, to which most fans answered, "Because he's a 'gateway' character," explaining that without Superboy as an anchor, many readers are lost in the formidable Legion roster.
Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/WWLA/08/DCNation.html):
Ethan Van Sciver then joined the panel. A fan asked about a rumor that Geoff Johns would be writing a Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series (perhaps with Van Sciver as artist), and DiDio again said he wouldn't comment on rumors but that he'd find out at the end of the month.
DiDio asked the audience about Jim Shooter's current Legion of Super-Heroes - who was reading it and if they liked it. A fan that indicated he wasn't satisfied said that he liked what Mark Waid and Barry Kitson were doing, and was disappointed so far about the Shooter run. Another fan said it was "really flat."

DiDio polled the audience again - this time about what their favorite incarnation of the Legion of Super-Heroes was: the Levitz/Giffen Legion, the Abnett/Lanning/Coipel Legion or the Waid/Kiston Legion. It was a fairly even split between the three.

DiDio then asked fans if DC could publish a comic called "Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes," who would buy it. "You got the name back?" an audience member quipped. "I said if we could do it," DiDio responded. "I don't want any more rumors starting." The response to the question from the audience was lukewarm, with only a few hands being raised before DiDio moved on.

When continuing to discuss team books, Van Sciver said he liked "the idea" of Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, since Superboy is a "gateway character" that everyone knows, that would allow readers to get to know the rest of the characters.
Wizard (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/031408dcnation.html):
Questions regarding which Legion of Super-Heroes Geoff Johns writes in his book were met with elusiveness. Van Sciver joked that Geoff writing the Legion is a “great idea.” Wayne chimed in saying, “But I thought there is three or four or five different version of the Legion. I think he’s writing all of them.” Didio said the answer would come by the end of the month.

Near the end of the panel, discussion turned to the Legion of Super-Heroes. Didio asked the audience if they like Jim Shooter’s Legion of Super-Heroes, which garnered various responses. When asked why they didn’t like it, one fan that enjoyed the Mark Waid/Barry Kitson Legion and thought the new direction was too much of a drastic change. Another fan said it was “very flat” and that “there’s no tone to it.”

Didio polled the audience as to which Legion is the most popular: the original Pre-Crisis Legion, the Legion Lost team or the current incarnation. The results were rather evenly split, with a slight leaning toward the pre-Crisis team.

Van Sciver asked if any Legion character would be able to hold their own title. Responses varied, but included Timber Wolf and Cosmic Boy.

When Didio asked if DC could publish a book called “Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes” would anyone purchase it. The general response was positive, but a fan asked if that means DC got the rights back to the name. Didio quickly responded “I said if we could. Don’t you be starting any rumors with that.” He asked the audience why they would read that title, a fan responded that Superboy served as a gateway character that allowed people who didn’t know the Legion to pick up the book. Van Sciver added that “I like the idea of ‘Superboy and the Legion’ because like he said, Superboy is a gateway character. We all know Superboy, so through Superboy we can get to know all of the 20,000 characters.”

[Paul Newell]

Sounds interesting. I'm up for it. Of course, my favourite version of the Legion is the 5YL group, but I doubt we'll ever see that group again.
You know it's still possible. There's still a few worlds, in the 52,that could have the Gap Legion existing on it.

[hondobrode]

5YL is my very fav version and I'm not alone. I think they could at least hold a mini revisiting that version. It was so gutsy and cutting edge and finally treated the characters as young adults instead of teenagers. Progression !

[Paul Newell]

One thing I always liked about the original run, al the way up o Zero Hour, was that you actually had some sort of "age progression". The fact that the Beirbaums could come up with a timeline that worked logically attests to that.

And what makes it even better is that it's not something that could be planned, it all happened naturally.

[protege]

Well from the sounds of it...you get three to choose from. :)
Can i mix and match? I liked the legion during the Mike Grell days, and while i never read the legion after the reboot, i liked the Newer members of the team, like Monstress and XS. I tried to get into the legion again when Supergirl was on the team, but something about it didn't really appeal to me. If we can get a legion that's a combination of all three out of this, I might be interested.

[NotSuper]

I'm on the belief that the Waid/Kitson Legion is set on Earth-Prime. (I think I might have been the first to suggest that theory.) How else could there be photo-realistic DC comic books in their future?

[halo82]

No-one knows yet. Much speculation has been speculated. :)

There are hints, though. There's ben speculation that the WaK Legion is from an "Earth-Prime" due to the amount of memorabilia shown in the early days of the series...Particularly copies of DC Comics. But then there's the New Earth Supergirl's membership.

Then again, it's been mentioned by the "original" Legion that they change "vibrational frequency" when travelling in time...So they could very well be from Earth-One. But why interact with the New Earth Superman?

No-one knows just which is the New Earth Legion yet.


Could the Time Trapper be involved? I Remeber he could adjust the Universe the Legion travelled to by making them go to Pocket Universe Superboy Smallville.

[Matthew E]

I'm on the belief that the Waid/Kitson Legion is set on Earth-Prime. (I think I might have been the first to suggest that theory.) How else could there be photo-realistic DC comic books in their future?

I think that's an aspect of things that doesn't bear close scrutiny. After all, if the Legion has access to 20th/21st century DC Comics, it must also have access to old Legion comics. Now, is it plausible that Garth Ranzz of Winath, who has lightning powers, is reading a comic written a thousand years ago about a guy from Winath named Garth Ranzz who has lightning powers? Et cetera? I don't see any way that that can be presented plausibly.

[Paul Newell]

I think that's an aspect of things that doesn't bear close scrutiny. After all, if the Legion has access to 20th/21st century DC Comics, it must also have access to old Legion comics. Now, is it plausible that Garth Ranzz of Winath, who has lightning powers, is reading a comic written a thousand years ago about a guy from Winath named Garth Ranzz who has lightning powers? Et cetera? I don't see any way that that can be presented plausibly.
Presumably it would work the same way as it did Pre-Crisis. Don't forget that Barry Allen was a fan of Flash Comics, starring Jay Garrick, from his first appearance onwards. Now if Earth-1 had comics starring the Earth-2 heroes, what about comics starring the Earth-2 Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman? I can't remember if they ever had an in story answer or not, but it was certain they had All-Star Comics on Earth-1 as Barry Allen knew who the JSA were.

[Matthew E]

I can't imagine they handled that in any other way than avoiding the problem completely by not looking at the whole deal too closely.

[Ontir]

From Newsarama:

A fan asked about the Legion, and DiDio reminded that it's the 50th anniversary of the characters, and they have significant plans for them. "I really liked the 'Legion Lost' era," commented the fan. "Come back and see me in a month," DiDio said.

This is great news, as far as I'm concerned. I really wish DC hadn't just jettisoned the work of DnA, Coipell and Battista for a far inferior take on the book. It's interesting to watch Shooter do to Waid.2, what DnA did to Waid.1. I hope that the necessity of fixing his re-boots is a lesson that tPTB learn this time 'round!

Beyond that, I'm looking forward to the conclusion of Johns' Superman & the Legion of Super-Heroes, and this cross-continuity adventure. In a perfect world, the Legion that emerges from this story would be a hybrid of all 3.

[Kid Kyoto]

I'm annoyed that the 50th anniversery book completely omits the 5 year gap run. Some of the stand alone issues like the destruction of Earth or the Matter Eater Lad stories would work great.

[davros42]

I can't imagine they handled that in any other way than avoiding the problem completely by not looking at the whole deal too closely.

Which is kind of a hallmark of comics in general. :D Especially in the Silver Age.

If you're gonna get grumpy about the big handwaving explanation that gets ignored two issues later and never comes up again, this may be the wrong medium for you.

Is it lame writing, yes. Is it lazy writing, probably. But it's traditional to the point of being a genre convention now. And in this case, practically a nostalgic continuity nod.

[ultimatespyder20]

My guess....Geoff Johns will write a new series, that's why he is leaving Booster Gold. Watch it be announced at NYCC.

Alec

[IPW]

I think the Legion of 3 worlds story is going to be Final Crisis.

[ultimatespyder20]

I just found that there is a whole other thread on this subject in the 'Countdown to Final Crisis' forum. Some interesting theories going on over there....and a whole lot of continuity confusion. : )

Alec

[Ontir]

OK, here's my take:

Starman said the "Legion of 3 Worlds" had already happened when they came back in time to get what/whomever they've got in the Lightning Rod.

In Superman & the Legion of Super-Heroes, Brainiac HAS the rod w/him on Colu, and talks about how he tried to bring Superman through time, but he got there later than anticipated.

Time travel is ALWAYS a possibility w/the Legion, and so perhaps the Action Legion is going to go back in time to try and fix things, where they will encounter Waid.1/DnA Legion and Waid.2/Shooter-Manipul Legion.

[The Batman]

Newsarama has this (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152225) up.

GEOFF JOHNS: LEGION OF 3 WORLDS, I

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Vaneta Rogers

We’ve been told that DC’s upcoming Final Crisis spans the past, present and future of the DC Universe.

With today’s Action Comics #863, part of that “future” has been previewed in a teaser image that confirms a team-up fans have been speculating about – writer Geoff Johns and artist George Perez will unite to tell the story of a multiverse-spanning 31st century battle in Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds beginning in August.

One of the two promised DC mini-series that will tie directly into Final Crisis, the Legion of 3 Worlds story will pull together the characters from three teams that have called themselves Legion of Super-Heroes during DC’s publishing history. And if we go by the teaser image, a slew of Perez-drawn Legion members will be fighting alongside Superman against a villainous threat in the future that will include a couple threats from the present as well – Superman-Prime and… is that Lex Luthor?

After wrapping up the Sinestro Corps War just a few months ago, it hasn’t taken Johns long to start writing another epic storyline, this one in five oversized issues that will tie into the Final Crisis story writer Grant Morrison is telling with artist J.G. Jones this summer. And it won’t surprise readers of Johns’ monthly comics that these issues will feature members of the original Legion, which Johns helped re-introduce to the DCU last year in a crossover between his Justice Society of America title with Justice League of America, then used in the current Action Comics story.

But three Legions? All together and all part of the DCU? What happened to the reboots where one Legion replaced the other? And for those readers who’ve never read any Legion stories, what do they have to know to understand this series? And what is Lex Luthor doing in that picture? Newsarama talked to Geoff Johns in a two-part interview to find out the answers to these questions and more…



Images here (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/Legion/AC863-23.html) and
here. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/Legion/AC863-24.html)


This looks fantastic. I've been loving Johns run on Action Comics and think that if he can bring the same energy to this that he brought to the Sinestro Corps War (and avoid turning this into a continuity wank) that we're in for some great fun superhero comics.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I've never been a huge legion fan, but I will be picking this up. I love Geoff's last arc on Action, and this looks fantastic. Superboy freaking Prime! Lex Luthor! The Last Green Lanterns! Huzzah!

[Mon-el]

Yay! Time Trapper

[LtMarvel]

Very impressive buildup.

Thinking aloud about Superman-Prime: I wonder what he knows about the Superman mythos from reading comics (up to the mid-80s?)... He could be the evil fanboy of all time...

[Phil3940]

i found this pic from http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152225

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3871/finalcrisislegionks1.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalcrisislegionks1.jpg)

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4968/finalcrisislegionof3worwq3.th.jpg (http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalcrisislegionof3worwq3.jpg)

[Magneto Rocks]

I've spent half my life hating the Legion of Super Heroes with a passion. (ALL of them)

There were only about three things that could possibly change my mind

1. A tie-in with a phenomenal story I would already be reading anyway
2. One of my favourite writers- preferably one brilliant at introducing new concepts to someone unfamiliar
3. An INCREDIBLE penciller- I mean amazing.

...DC have decided to give me all three. And to make the penciller the best artist in comics- period. On a giant. Cosmic. Epic.

...No force on Earth can prevent me from buying this. :p

[Tahko Tetsujin]

Undoing the Threeboot and bringing back the Multiverse?

You know between you and me, I'm starting to think that DC and Marvel have thier own secret meetings and they said: "Hey remember the late 70's? Good Times. Let's do that again."

I'm not really sure how to react to that.

[Accroître]

Did anyone notice that Brainiac 5 has the lightning rod? Maybe we will finally find out what/who is in it!

[davros42]

holycrapholycrapholycrapholycrap

[DonC]

Did anyone notice that Brainiac 5 has the lightning rod? Maybe we will finally find out what/who is in it!



Wasn't that revealing by Dan DiDio in one of his fake slip-ups at a convention? It's supposed to be Bart Allen.

[Emperor Time]

I knew it that Superman-Prime would survive his battle aganist the Monarch. :D

[Kevinroc]

At this point, it seems rather obvious that it is Bart Allen in the lightning rod. Thematically, it would not make sense for it to be anyone else. This is a story where Superman-Prime plays a major role. S-Prime despises Bart beyond any other character. There was even a scene in Sinestro Corps about how much S-Prime hated Bart and was filled with joy over him being dead. So a confrontation between Bart and S-Prime seems like something that is being set-up.

[TheCrisisKid]

He didn't just survive the battle, he somehow got his monitor costume back in the process.

[4thHorseman]

So.....Prime got to the future how? Propelled there from the Monarch blast?

Looking forward to it. I've never been a huge Legion fan, never perked my interest, but I'll give it a shot. Looks pretty good.

[Joe Acro]

I wonder how this story syncs up with Prime's story in Countdown.

I think he ended up dead in that. I think.

I'm really curious about the Time Trapper's involvement, especially since it seems to be the Pre-Zero Hour look.

[davros42]

At this point, it seems rather obvious that it is Bart Allen in the lightning rod. Thematically, it would not make sense for it to be anyone else. This is a story where Superman-Prime plays a major role. S-Prime despises Bart beyond any other character. There was even a scene in Sinestro Corps about how much S-Prime hated Bart and was filled with joy over him being dead. So a confrontation between Bart and S-Prime seems like something that is being set-up.

Also, Bart is from the era of the 2nd Legion and that's his cousin XS up there in the corner of page 2, the only Legionnaire shown not from the Original Legion. So yeah, looks a near certainty that it's Bart.

[gwor]

As a fan of the 1980s Legion, I'm a bit glad to see them 'back'.

I am troubled by the constant use of 'old' characters/concepts to generate new stories. I usually enjoy John's stuff, so this limited series is on my 'check out' list.

[Smokeyjay]

You would think Prime would get tired of leading major apocalyptic battles. That guy needs to chill out.

[Shellhead]

I will definitely get this, because I usually enjoy Geoff's writing and always enjoy the Perez artwork. However, I was only sort of into the Legion in the '70s, plus I initially enjoyed the Waid run, so I may have trouble keeping track of who is who in a story featuring 3 Legions.

[Babylon23]

I've never been the biggest Legion fan. Infact, the only time I've collected the series was during the much maligned 5YL period, which I loved (doubt we'll ever see that version of the Legion again).

Still, I'm on board for this.

[Emperor Time]

I wonder how this story syncs up with Prime's story in Countdown.

I think he ended up dead in that. I think.

I'm really curious about the Time Trapper's involvement, especially since it seems to be the Pre-Zero Hour look.

How could he have died in that story if this story takes place afterwards? :cool:

[Joe Acro]

How could he have died in that story if this story takes place afterwards?
We don't know if it takes place afterwards. We're dealing with travel across time and reality. Countdown could always come later in Prime's story.

[Halloweenhead]

I'm really psyched about this. Johns & Perez can do no wrong. Perez is the ultimate artist of my youth. And Johns is the guy to bring back all the things I once loved in my youth.

The Time-Trapper, Luthor, Superboy-Prime, the Legion of Super-Villains, the Fatal Five, Dr. Regulus, Mordru, Universo... no wonder it's going to take 3 Legions. I'm betting with Perez at the artistic helm, we will see virtually every possible Legion member, including Subs, Reserves, and even Super-Pets somewhere in the background, as well as scores of villains.

I'm looking forward to seeing Johns handling of Mordru after using a younger Mordru in the pages of JSA.

Legion of 3 Worlds, Final Crisis (which I am praying is good), this summer's Earth-2 event, Secret Invasion, the upcoming Blackest Night saga, the recently finished Sinestro Corps War, and the Annihilation Wave saga are the events I am going to remember fondly 20 years from now when I look back at this period of comics.

[Zero Hunter]

This is the best news I have read in such a long time!!! Just looking at that lineup of baddies is enough to make any Legion fans mouth water. This is going to be five issues of awesomeness.

[brundlefly]

He didn't just survive the battle, he somehow got his monitor costume back in the process.

Hmmm....given the time-travel nature of this storyarc, could the Anti-Monitor armor incarnation of S-Prime be from circa Infinite Crisis (which is when he wore that outfit) and thus the "Lex Luthor" in the teaser image actually be Alex Luthor in his 'Society Lex' disguise? Given that Alex and S-Prime were damn near inseparable during that time period and all. Eh, just hypothesizing...

I hope it is the real deal, though, since Lex has done jack-all since Superman OYL except lead a motley gang of super-crooks in JLA and then get shipped off to Hell Planet in Salvation Run. Lex in the 'Dr. Doom' role in this arc (AKA the crafty human schemer trying to steal ultimate power from the cosmic villains like Time Trapper or Mordru) would be aces.

Like Babylon23, I'm not the biggest fan of the Legion and their various incarnations, but a Johns/Perez team-up featuring this cast of characters is something I'm not going to be able to pass up. Most definitely looking forward to this.

[Halloweenhead]

[QUOTE=brundlefly;6621007]Hmmm....given the time-travel nature of this storyarc, could the Anti-Monitor armor incarnation of S-Prime be from circa Infinite Crisis (which is when he wore that outfit) and thus the "Lex Luthor" in the teaser image actually be Alex Luthor in his 'Society Lex' disguise? Given that Alex and S-Prime were damn near inseparable during that time period and all. Eh, just hypothesizing...[QUOTE]


I'd like to think that because Countdown to Final Crisis has been so bad, it's already been retconned out of existence before the series is even done. HAHA! And the last ACTUAL appearance of S-Prime was in the pages of Green Lantern.

You do bring up a good point about the costume though.

[Sean Whitmore]

Superboy Prime and Mordru on the same team? That is one hideously overpowered group of bad guys.

I'd be all, "Hey Persuader? Why don't you go chop us some firewood while the two of us kill the Legion."


SEAN

[CMBMOOL]

I'm In.

I may barely know little about the Legion and it complicated history, but I'm in if it's going to be this good. :)

[Paul Newell]

Superboy Prime and Mordru on the same team? That is one hideously overpowered group of bad guys.

I'd be all, "Hey Persuader? Why don't you go chop us some firewood while the two of us kill the Legion."


SEAN
"Grimbor, cup of Kono. Now!"

[Nessor Sille]

I was cheered immensely by seeing XS in the house ad. I've really, really missed the new Legionnaires introduced during the Reboot. Somehow Dream Boy and the Shooter chick just don't seem to compare.

[Ullar]

I was wondering if there are any books that I should read before this comes out besides the lightning saga and the action comics legion arc?

[Tazirai]

From the Countdown to Crisis panel:

CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=13115):

Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Wondercon08/DCCountdown.html):


It's been revealed that Geoff Johns is writing a Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series. It's been shown, in the preview art for DC Universe #0 that George Perez is pencilling the Lightning Saga Legion portion of the issue.

My guess is from all this, plus other odds and ends appearing around the net that they will the creative team on one of the two mini-series that will run concurrently with Final Crisis and it will be the often mentioned "Legion of Three Worlds" story. Plus, going from the fact that the Legion are fighting the Shadow Demons that it'll be the "Crisis in the 31st Century", mentioned by Brainiac 5, that'll tie up the loose ends from the Lightning Saga and reveal who's in the lightning rod.

If I'm right, I can't wait! :)

I've kinda figured out who it is also. Hope i'm just as right as you are.
LLtL... Long Live the Legion!

[Ian J.N.]

At this point, it seems rather obvious that it is Bart Allen in the lightning rod. Thematically, it would not make sense for it to be anyone else. This is a story where Superman-Prime plays a major role. S-Prime despises Bart beyond any other character. There was even a scene in Sinestro Corps about how much S-Prime hated Bart and was filled with joy over him being dead. So a confrontation between Bart and S-Prime seems like something that is being set-up.
Sound reasoning, but the lightning rod may have more to do with the larger conflict of Final Crisis than with Superman-Prime. With Superman paired against Prime, and Flash's connection with Crisis, I think that's likely.

I just can't see it being Bart in the lightning rod. "And now the moment you've all been waiting for! The big resurrection of... Bart Allen?" I like Bart, but his star power isn't commensurate to the buildup, and it's too soon for his return to have impact. It'd be a boring reveal.

[Jeff O.]

I was wondering if there are any books that I should read before this comes out besides the lightning saga and the action comics legion arc?

Since Darkseid will be a major player in the FINAL CRISIS of the Present -- and LEGION OF THREE WORLDS has a huge lineup of Legionnaires in a FINAL CRISIS tie-in miniseries of the Future -- you might want to read THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA if you haven't done so already.

I'm not saying THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA will directly have anything to do with FINAL CRISIS, but it sure had Darkseid versus a huge lineup of Legionnaires in the Future. Though DC says it's currently out-of-print, you might be able to track down a copy. What an epic!

http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1414 (http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1414)



__________________

[Kid Seven]

And, if we're pushing Legion stories ;-) I'd add that the 'Eye For An Eye' TPB that came out not too long ago is an excellent intro to the Legion of Super-Villains.

[Tazirai]

Sound reasoning, but the lightning rod may have more to do with the larger conflict of Final Crisis than with Superman-Prime. With Superman paired against Prime, and Flash's connection with Crisis, I think that's likely.

I just can't see it being Bart in the lightning rod. "And now the moment you've all been waiting for! The big resurrection of... Bart Allen?" I like Bart, but his star power isn't commensurate to the buildup, and it's too soon for his return to have impact. It'd be a boring reveal.

Mon-El most likely it seems to me. He became trapped in our Era. Hasn't been seen in ages, So my guess. Along with many of the missing legionnaires, is it's him.

[Kevinroc]

Sound reasoning, but the lightning rod may have more to do with the larger conflict of Final Crisis than with Superman-Prime. With Superman paired against Prime, and Flash's connection with Crisis, I think that's likely.

I just can't see it being Bart in the lightning rod. "And now the moment you've all been waiting for! The big resurrection of... Bart Allen?" I like Bart, but his star power isn't commensurate to the buildup, and it's too soon for his return to have impact. It'd be a boring reveal.

Just because you think it would be "a boring reveal" for Bart to return out of this doesn't mean that it isn't Bart. As it stands, Geoff Johns wrote The Lightning Saga (well, half of it), is writing this Legion story and currently writes most of Prime's appearances.

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=15836

In this interview (which talks a little about the Legion story), Geoff Johns said this:

"If you read the books I write, you can definitely see a continuity in the DC Universe, a mini-continuity or a mini-storyline or a mini-evolving universe, just because of the characters that I weave in and out and that I really gravitate towards. If I am writing comics at DC long enough, there is probably a chance that you are going to see Black Adam. That’s just a wild guess. There are just certain characters and groups that I really like. I still really love the Teen Titans. I would love to do them again some day."

So I'm basing my theory on observation and deduction.

Geoff Johns co-wrote the Teen Titans/ Legion crossover. XS is returning in the Legion of Three Worlds story.

Superman-Prime is playing a major role and he despises Bart Allen and spent time gloating over Bart's grave during Sinestro Corps.

Geoff Johns admitted he wanted to write the Teen Titans again. Bart was once a Titan.

And uumm... you know, Bart was co-created by the late, great Mike Wieringo, who stated he HATED Bart being killed off. Beyong a few pages Mark Waid wrote in Flash, has DC done anything in memoriam of 'Ringo? (Man, it's depressing that 'Ringo isn't around anymore. He was great...)

[Jeff O.]

And, if we're pushing Legion stories ;-) I'd add that the 'Eye For An Eye' TPB that came out not too long ago is an excellent intro to the Legion of Super-Villains.

Link:

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=8409 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=8409)


I suppose we have to be a bit careful about pushing the Legion of Super-Villains too much, though. Why, they might push back! http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/editor/smilie.gif



__________________

[Ian J.N.]

Just because you think it would be "a boring reveal" for Bart to return out of this doesn't mean that it isn't Bart.
I don't mean that I would find it a boring reveal. I mean that I, the majority of DC fandom, and probably the writer would find it a boring reveal. Bart's death was a shocking upset to the status quo. Undoing that would be restoring the status quo, which is boring. The lightning rod was at the heart of the big JLA/JSA/Legion crossover, kept secret for a year, and will (by all appearances) be a big deal for the upcoming Crisis-to-end-all-Crises, company-wide event. I'm sorry but "the hero formally known as Impulse" just isn't up to the hype. Keep in mind that I DO want Bart Allen to return, just not like this. I'm hoping Johns sticks to his M.O. of resurrecting dead characters. Killing a character so you can "shockingly" resurrect him is kinda lame.

So I'm basing my theory on observation and deduction.

Geoff Johns co-wrote the Teen Titans/ Legion crossover. XS is returning in the Legion of Three Worlds story.

Superman-Prime is playing a major role and he despises Bart Allen and spent time gloating over Bart's grave during Sinestro Corps.

Geoff Johns admitted he wanted to write the Teen Titans again. Bart was once a Titan.

And uumm... you know, Bart was co-created by the late, great Mike Wieringo, who stated he HATED Bart being killed off. Beyong a few pages Mark Waid wrote in Flash, has DC done anything in memoriam of 'Ringo? (Man, it's depressing that 'Ringo isn't around anymore. He was great...)
A little scrutiny:

1. Every Legionnaire to have ever existed is involved, so of course XS is too. That'd be significant were she one of the main characters, but that doesn't seem to be the case: "My favorite Legion characters are the three founders – Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad – and Brainiac 5, Wildfire and Dawnstar, and Polar Boy and Sun Boy. And essentially, those eight are going to be my main Legionnaires." (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152319))

2. The role you're describing (foil to Superman-Prime) is occupied by Superman in a story where "Superman is a main focus" (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152350)). Why resurrect a character--or kill and resurrect a character--to have him play second banana? There must be a purpose higher than Superman-Prime, in which case Bart may not be the most suitable candidate. We're missing a gigantic piece of the puzzle.

Additionally, there were story reasons for acknowledging Bart in the Superman-Prime special: "Obviously, there are legal things going on, but really this is a rites of passage issue. There's a reason 'boy' becomes 'man' – Prime looks at another boy who became a man who didn't fair as well." (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=130914))

3. "I would love to do them again some day" implies no present plans.

4. Perhaps Wieringo will be given a tribute in Rogues' Revenge--the Geoff Johns miniseries that deals with "the fallout of the death of Bart Allen, and how it affects the Flash universe." (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142840))

[Kevinroc]

I don't mean that I would find it a boring reveal. I mean that I, the majority of DC fandom, and probably the writer would find it a boring reveal. Bart's death was a shocking upset to the status quo. Undoing that would be restoring the status quo, which is boring. The lightning rod was at the heart of the big JLA/JSA/Legion crossover, kept secret for a year, and will (by all appearances) be a big deal for the upcoming Crisis-to-end-all-Crises, company-wide event. I'm sorry but "the hero formally known as Impulse" just isn't up to the hype. Keep in mind that I DO want Bart Allen to return, just not like this. I'm hoping Johns sticks to his M.O. of resurrecting dead characters. Killing a character so you can "shockingly" resurrect him is kinda lame.

Geoff Johns did not kill Bart Allen. That decision was made by DC editorial and the writer was Marc Guggenheim.

You also don't know how important/ not important the rod will be in Final Crisis itself. Geoff Johns stated he believed in writing a sort of "mini-continuity" between his titles. He co-wrote the JLA/ JSA crossover and he is writing this Legion story.

A little scrutiny:

1. Every Legionnaire to have ever existed is involved, so of course XS is too. That'd be significant were she one of the main characters, but that doesn't seem to be the case: "My favorite Legion characters are the three founders – Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad – and Brainiac 5, Wildfire and Dawnstar, and Polar Boy and Sun Boy. And essentially, those eight are going to be my main Legionnaires."

(link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152319))

This is a five issue mini. XS is one of the most popular Legion members of her era. I highly doubt she'll only appear in the background of a fight scene.

2. The role you're describing (foil to Superman-Prime) is occupied by Superman in a story where "Superman is a main focus" (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=152350)). Why resurrect a character--or kill and resurrect a character--to have him play second banana? There must be a purpose higher than Superman-Prime, in which case Bart may not be the most suitable candidate. We're missing a gigantic piece of the puzzle.

Additionally, there were story reasons for acknowledging Bart in the Superman-Prime special: "Obviously, there are legal things going on, but really this is a rites of passage issue. There's a reason 'boy' becomes 'man' – Prime looks at another boy who became a man who didn't fair as well." (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=130914))

By that logic, no matter who the character is, they are second banana. But let's face it, when you're talking about Superman, pretty much anyone else is a second banana.

No other major character could be in that rod has the kind of tie to S-Prime that Bart has.

3. "I would love to do them again some day" implies no present plans.

But it does not imply that it is not Bart in the rod.

4. Perhaps Wieringo will be given a tribute in Rogues' Revenge--the Geoff Johns miniseries that deals with "the fallout of the death of Bart Allen, and how it affects the Flash universe." (link (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142840))

Mayhap that title ties into this one. That doesn't mean Bart won't end up joining a particular Legion team and staying in the future (as some have speculated).

There's one more thing I forgot to add so I suppose this is as good a time as any. In the DCU, people from the future that died before they were born can have their souls collected and be revived through future tech. Iris Allen is a testament to this crazy pseudo-science in action.

[inventio]

Hopefully the LOSH will be restored as a fan favorite powerhouse like they truly deserve. The LOSH should be DC's X-franchise IMO without all the spin-off titles.

That was the purpose of Zero Hour Legion (be more like an X-Men book) and we saw how bad it was. I still think that LSH is the adult hero book solid based on a continuous legacy. It was the only book where characters evolved and got older (unlike any other DC or Marvel book - Mephisto anyone?). I'd like to see that back in place.

[inventio]

5YL is my very fav version and I'm not alone. I think they could at least hold a mini revisiting that version. It was so gutsy and cutting edge and finally treated the characters as young adults instead of teenagers. Progression !

Amen to all the praise to v4. That was Vertigo material. Not only that, but the interaction with the creators in the sorely missed lettercol was fabulous.

[Ian J.N.]

Geoff Johns did not kill Bart Allen. That decision was made by DC editorial and the writer was Marc Guggenheim.
Johns wanted to resurrect a character who wasn't dead? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument, and it doesn't seem relevant to my point.

This is a five issue mini. XS is one of the most popular Legion members of her era. I highly doubt she'll only appear in the background of a fight scene.
Wishful thinking. Eight Legionnaires, plus Superman, Superman-Prime, Lex Luthor, the lightning rod hero (if he's integral to LOTW, as you suggest) and however many villains, like Mordru or Time Trapper, who's strongly suspected to have a role. Five issues. That's not a lot of room for XS.

By that logic, no matter who the character is, they are second banana. But let's face it, when you're talking about Superman, pretty much anyone else is a second banana.
Well yes, that's my point:

"Sound reasoning, but the lightning rod may have more to do with the larger conflict of Final Crisis than with Superman-Prime. With Superman paired against Prime, and Flash's connection with Crisis, I think that's likely." (link (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6625034&postcount=66))

The lightning rod hero will be irrelevant to the Superman-Prime conflict, because said hero would end up second banana to Superman, which would invalidate the rigmarole of his resurrection and/or murder. The basis of your argument is Bart's relation to Superman-Prime. I'm saying that's invalid.

But it does not imply that it is not Bart in the rod.
Nor does it imply that he is. Remember, the burden of proof is your responsibility. My job is to refute your arguments--not prove that Bart will remain dead.

Mayhap that title ties into this one. That doesn't mean Bart won't end up joining a particular Legion team and staying in the future (as some have speculated).
Mayhap. However, both DC Universe #0 ("and the stunning return of a force for good!") and Final Crisis #2 ("All this and a spectacular return from the dead") are released before Rogues' Revenge, and it's strongly suspected they're referring to the lightning rod hero. Revealing that Bart's alive at that point would undercut the premise to Rogues' Revenge.

Let me guess, you think the solicitations are referring to two other resurrections.

[bobbydrake50]

Can't wait for this - pity the main players include Sunboy and not Phantom Girl though - its looks like there should have been another female with only having Saturn Girl and Dawnstar. Although I haven't read the Action issues yet it looks like they are spotlighting the same members instead of giving some different members a showing - and I think we see enough of Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad anyway.

[Kevinroc]

Johns wanted to resurrect a character who wasn't dead? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument, and it doesn't seem relevant to my point.

You act as if Geoff Johns was the writer who killed Bart. He was not. Didn't he and Brad Meltzer also say that they learned of Bart's death before they finished with The Lightning Saga? A change of plans can happen.

Wishful thinking. Eight Legionnaires, plus Superman, Superman-Prime, Lex Luthor, the lightning rod hero (if he's integral to LOTW, as you suggest) and however many villains, like Mordru or Time Trapper, who's strongly suspected to have a role. Five issues. That's not a lot of room for XS.

I'm not saying that XS will be the "star" of this thing. But she is one of the identifying marks of her era of the Legion.

Well yes, that's my point:

"Sound reasoning, but the lightning rod may have more to do with the larger conflict of Final Crisis than with Superman-Prime. With Superman paired against Prime, and Flash's connection with Crisis, I think that's likely." (link (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6625034&postcount=66))

The lightning rod hero will be irrelevant to the Superman-Prime conflict, because said hero would end up second banana to Superman, which would invalidate the rigmarole of his resurrection and/or murder. The basis of your argument is Bart's relation to Superman-Prime. I'm saying that's invalid.

No, it is not invalid. Just because a character is not as important as Superman does not mean they are completely useless and have no thematic element to bring into the story. If we were to look at it as a case of "Superman is in this, therefor every other character is completely irrelevant", pretty much the entire DCU would be useless. But we all know that just because Superman appears in a story, that doesn't mean Flash or Green Lantern or Robin or whoever are shown to be completely useless to the story.

Nor does it imply that he is. Remember, the burden of proof is your responsibility. My job is to refute your arguments--not prove that Bart will remain dead.

I think it rather obvious at this point that you are dead set convinced that it is not Bart in the rod and I doubt I could convince you otherwise.

Mayhap. However, both DC Universe #0 ("and the stunning return of a force for good!") and Final Crisis #2 ("All this and a spectacular return from the dead") are released before Rogues' Revenge, and it's strongly suspected they're referring to the lightning rod hero. Revealing that Bart's alive at that point would undercut the premise to Rogues' Revenge.

Let me guess, you think the solicitations are referring to two other resurrections.

Was Bart going to be revealed as alive at the end of the first issue of LOTW? And this would be treated as general knowledge by the heroes of the 21st century?

I am merely looking at the Lightning Saga, the usage of S-Prime, the notion that people from the future can have their souls collected to be reborn (as we saw with Iris Allen) and Bart's own ties to the Legion as evidence to make my claim that it is Bart in the Lightning Rod.

[bfrank]

Where the hell is Mon-El?

[Tazirai]

That was the purpose of Zero Hour Legion (be more like an X-Men book) and we saw how bad it was. I still think that LSH is the adult hero book solid based on a continuous legacy. It was the only book where characters evolved and got older (unlike any other DC or Marvel book - Mephisto anyone?). I'd like to see that back in place.

Welcome to CBR..

I'd like to see this "new" adult legion also. They are one of the only hero books to evolve over time. And not just in the typical manners also.

Your question...
Where the hell is Mon-El?

I want to know also.
Mon-El most likely it seems to me. He became trapped in our Era. Hasn't been seen in ages, So my guess. Along with many of the missing legionnaires, is it's him.

[mistervader]

Maybe it'll be Max Dillon! That's one heck of a reveal.

[spidervenom]

Im 80 percent sure that it's barry who will be returning. First off, I think it be too obvious to bring back bart this way. It seems obvious, and perhaps there making it to seem that way to put the fans in the wrong direction. Also, It showed during the lightning saga. that when they collected the lighting for the lightning rod, Wally returned. ALso in all flash, When bart lost his speed it was taken by wally when bart was still alive. That means the guy in the lightning rod was already taken.

[Ian J.N.]

I think it rather obvious at this point that you are dead set convinced that it is not Bart in the rod and I doubt I could convince you otherwise.
Probably not, but for the record, I have considered (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1273826&postcount=10) both sides of the argument (note the similarity of my Superman-Prime argument to yours). This is where I've ended up.

Whatever. This debate is getting unwieldy, so let me just summarize and rephrase my position and I'll be on my way:

First, no, I don't think it's Bart in the lightning rod. I think his lower-tier status (living or dead) disqualifies him; it's not equal to the hype. And I think the timing disqualifies him. A simultaneous or preceding resurrection would undercut Rogues' Revenge, where Dead Bart Allen is thematically important to the premise.

My main disagreement, however, is not with Bart Allen in the lightning rod, but with the "observations and deductions" that claim its near certainty. Yes, Bart is closely associated with XS and Superman-Prime, but is that evidence or coincidence? The mere fact those characters are in the story means nothing, as we'd expect them to be involved no matter who was in the rod. (XS is a Legionnaire of Three Worlds, after all.)

What would mean something is corroborating evidence, like a larger-than-expected role for XS or a conspicuously missing opponent for Superman-Prime. I've looked for those sorts of holes and anomalies that would suggest Bart's involvement, but there doesn't seem to be any. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong (as you're so fond of pointing out). It means you don't have an argument.

So... I'm not convinced. You point at Superman-Prime and say Bart. Another points at Crisis and says Barry. I might point at time travel and say John Fox. It's not enough to play connect the dots.

[Kevinroc]

Probably not, but for the record, I have considered (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1273826&postcount=10) both sides of the argument (note the similarity of my Superman-Prime argument to yours). This is where I've ended up.

Whatever. This debate is getting unwieldy, so let me just summarize and rephrase my position and I'll be on my way:

First, no, I don't think it's Bart in the lightning rod. I think his lower-tier status (living or dead) disqualifies him; it's not equal to the hype. And I think the timing disqualifies him. A simultaneous or preceding resurrection would undercut Rogues' Revenge, where Dead Bart Allen is thematically important to the premise.

My main disagreement, however, is not with Bart Allen in the lightning rod, but with the "observations and deductions" that claim its near certainty. Yes, Bart is closely associated with XS and Superman-Prime, but is that evidence or coincidence? The mere fact those characters are in the story means nothing, as we'd expect them to be involved no matter who was in the rod. (XS is a Legionnaire of Three Worlds, after all.)

What would mean something is corroborating evidence, like a larger-than-expected role for XS or a conspicuously missing opponent for Superman-Prime. I've looked for those sorts of holes and anomalies that would suggest Bart's involvement, but there doesn't seem to be any. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong (as you're so fond of pointing out). It means you don't have an argument.

So... I'm not convinced. You point at Superman-Prime and say Bart. Another points at Crisis and says Barry. I might point at time travel and say John Fox. It's not enough to play connect the dots.

I just want to say one thing about this.

A lot of the hype surrounding the lightning rod is driven by fan speculation. DC really hasn't been hyping that lightning rod all that much. It's really message board posters that have hyped up this lightning rod story as being something more major than it could be.

This is primarily a Legion story. The Legion themselves are a lower-tier DC team. They are lower tier than the JLA, the JSA, the Titans. The current Legion monthly has sales below many DC books. That doesn't mean this Legion story won't have better sales numbers. I'm just saying the team itself is lower-tier on the sales charts.

I just thought a little perspective on speculation and sales was warranted.

[TheBoTT]

i'd say that them featuring it prominately in its own box/section of the promo for final crisis legion that there is a very good chance that its important. If it wasnt why would it have its own panel.

[Kevinroc]

i'd say that them featuring it prominately in its own box/section of the promo for final crisis legion that there is a very good chance that its important. If it wasnt why would it have its own panel.

The Lightning Rod is important to the Legion mini but does that mean it will be extremely important to Final Crisis?

[Emperor Time]

I wonder how much destruction Superman-Prime will caused this time. :D

[kamandi63]

Have been a huge Legion and George Perez fan for over 30 yrs, so I'm eagerly awaiting the Legion of 3 Worlds book. Any Kamandi fans out there?

[joemagnum611]

Im 80 percent sure that it's barry who will be returning. First off, I think it be too obvious to bring back bart this way. It seems obvious, and perhaps there making it to seem that way to put the fans in the wrong direction. Also, It showed during the lightning saga. that when they collected the lighting for the lightning rod, Wally returned. ALso in all flash, When bart lost his speed it was taken by wally when bart was still alive. That means the guy in the lightning rod was already taken.

I think it's Barry too. Especially with talk of him comming back.

[Paul Newell]

I just want to say one thing about this.

A lot of the hype surrounding the lightning rod is driven by fan speculation. DC really hasn't been hyping that lightning rod all that much. It's really message board posters that have hyped up this lightning rod story as being something more major than it could be.

This is primarily a Legion story. The Legion themselves are a lower-tier DC team. They are lower tier than the JLA, the JSA, the Titans. The current Legion monthly has sales below many DC books. That doesn't mean this Legion story won't have better sales numbers. I'm just saying the team itself is lower-tier on the sales charts.

I just thought a little perspective on speculation and sales was warranted.
Why? The Legion monthly may be lower tier, but the version of the Legion appearing in Action Comics has outsold JSA & The Titans. Their first appearance HAPPENED in JLA & JSA and sold very well.

[OzBat!]

I'm inclined to think it's Bart Allen in the lightning rod as well. The timing of Wally's reappearance, Bart's death, the surge in the speed force, can and will be explained away easily enough. Beyond that, we've got those teaser images with XS in some prominence, plus Bart was involved with her version of the legion on multiple occasions, he was the bane of Brainy's existance at one point, his costume was supposedly the design template earthgov used for the Legion's uniforms, and then-president Thawn had a major hate-on for Bart which resulted in his mom going back to their home century also. All up, Bart has a lot of links to that version of the legion. As well as the afore-mentioned Superman/boy/fan-Prime hate factored in too.

[Mon-el]

Mon-El most likely it seems to me. He became trapped in our Era. Hasn't been seen in ages, So my guess. Along with many of the missing legionnaires, is it's him.

I don't think it's Mon-El to me, and this is purely speculation on my part. I do think it center's around a "Flash" character.

Where the hell is Mon-El?

I want to know also.

1. Lightning Saga/Action Comic's Legion/and I use the term "original" Adventure era loosely(as trying not to upset anyone) - Action #860 Timberwolf tells Superman "Rumours say Earth-Man Banished Mon-El back to the Phantom Zone.

2. Zero Hour/Reboot/Dna's Legion - Valor/M'Onel/whatever you want to call him this week was last seen in Infinite Crisis #6 on Earth 247(before the 52), before that I believe Titan's/Legion special at the center of the "L".

3. Threeboot/Re-beat/WaK's Legion - Mon-El was seen very briefly in Supergirl and the Legion of Super-heroes #24 to #30, and was sent back into the Phantom Zone. after that we have seen Mon-El in present day time in the Action #851 "Last Son arc" and a couple of weeks ago in Superman #674.

[Kevinroc]

Why? The Legion monthly may be lower tier, but the version of the Legion appearing in Action Comics has outsold JSA & The Titans. Their first appearance HAPPENED in JLA & JSA and sold very well.

To be fair, the JLA/ JSA crossover was incredibly hot. Any crossover between Brad Meltzer's JLA and Geoff Johns' JSA would have sold like hotcakes. The crossover could have been about Resurrection Man and it would have sold like crazy.

The current arc in Action is also an arc in the Geoff Johns Action Comics that was promoted as being the debut of artist Gary Frank on the title. Frank had just come off of drawing a few issues of Incredible Hulk during the World War Hulk crossover.

I do expect this Legion mini by Geoff Johns and George Perez to sell. The creative team of Johns and Perez make sure of that. The point I was making was that Bart can't be considered too "low tier" for returning in this mini because the Legion themselves are "low tier" in comparison to other aspects of the DCU.

[Kid Seven]

Man, I'm still very excited about George Perez being the artist on this book. I've always wanted him to do them. The covers he did years ago (during Reflecto) and the few cover or interior appearances they've made under his pencil have only wetted my appetite.

Bring on the story!

[Kid Seven]

Just found this and thought I'd share.

http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/legion/img/lsh-perez+1024x768.jpg

[Kid Seven]

Double post.

Oops.

[raul the cat]

Those pics are from back in the day, when the low tier Legion were being reprinted regularly along with their monthly, but before the low tier Legion had two monthlies.

[Matthew E]

I don't think it's Mon-El to me, and this is purely speculation on my part. I do think it center's around a "Flash" character.





1. Lightning Saga/Action Comic's Legion/and I use the term "original" Adventure era loosely(as trying not to upset anyone) - Action #860 Timberwolf tells Superman "Rumours say Earth-Man Banished Mon-El back to the Phantom Zone.

2. Zero Hour/Reboot/Dna's Legion - Valor/M'Onel/whatever you want to call him this week was last seen in Infinite Crisis #6 on Earth 247(before the 52), before that I believe Titan's/Legion special at the center of the "L".

3. Threeboot/Re-beat/WaK's Legion - Mon-El was seen very briefly in Supergirl and the Legion of Super-heroes #24 to #30, and was sent back into the Phantom Zone. after that we have seen Mon-El in present day time in the Action #851 "Last Son arc" and a couple of weeks ago in Superman #674.

The thing for me is, I'm dashed if I can tell whether Mon-Els #1 and #3 are the same person or not. In one way, they sort of have to be, and in another way, how could they be?

[Jack Tango]

In one way, they sort of have to be, and in another way, how could they be?

I love this statement.

[Blueferret]

Just found this and thought I'd share.

http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/legion/img/lsh-perez+1024x768.jpg

Who's the guy in blue next to Karate Kid? Is that Element Lad???

[Paul Newell]

Who's the guy in blue next to Karate Kid? Is that Element Lad???
Yep. And the colorings off a bit....It's dark green.

[lazlo_toth]

the LOSH traveling through dimensions and / or time, thus showing the various layers of the Megaverse, and possibly disrupting / destabilizing them i.e. inadvertantly causing the Crisis.

Hopefully the LOSH will be restored as a fan favorite powerhouse like they truly deserve. The LOSH should be DC's X-franchise IMO without all the spin-off titles.

Well, I agree. Going over fifty years worth of stories, the Legion has an incredibly rich and detailed universe loaded with some amazing concepts and ideas, and I don't think anyone, even Paul Levitz, has really exploited it to its full potential. Artificial worlds built to run massive bureucracies, banks that exchange bizarre currencies from a thousand different worlds, a planetoid-sized cemetery devoted to the interment of the galaxy's greatest heroes. The homeworld of each Legionnaire has its own culture, customs, history and mythology, and they've only scratched the surface of a few of them. And we won't even mention how much we DON'T know about the Khunds and the Dominators. Hell, they have to be at least as interesting as the bloody Shi'ar, and god knows Chris Claremont has run them into the freaking ground over in the X-books. Ironically, Keith Giffen's ill-fated 5YG run with the Bierbaum's may have been the one era of the LSH where this stuff was explored the most, but that run was compromised almost from the start.



What Legion is going to remain after this is what I'm wondering. I really hope we get characters like XS, Gates, Shikari and Kinetix back. I liked all of them.

I thought Gates was one of the best characters to emerge from the "reboot" era Legion, and one I would have liked to see carry on into the Waid/Kitson version. I liked XS solely because she filled the Legion's longtime lack of a true speedster, although I would have much rather they just brought in one or both of the Tornado Twins.

As far as which Legion will remain, I'm not sure that we won't see all three survive in some manner. Now that the DCU is a multiverse again, it isn't like there aren't plenty of parallel worlds that they could all be linked up to. Johns keeps referring to the Levitzesque (as in very reminiscent of the Levitz-era LSH, but not exactly identical, despite the persistent referral to it as the "classic" Legion) group from Action Comics as "the" Legion, and so far I've seen nothing in his interviews or comments that even acknowledges that Jim Shooter is currently writing a title called LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES that bears no resemblance to the team that Superman belonged to in his youth. Apart from XS lurking in the background in that lovely Perez teaser, I haven't seen any references to the reboot Legion. I've got no idea how DC plans to resolve all of this, but there is a very simple answer just sitting there, and DC has a habit of bypassing simple solutions in favor of convoluted ones that make little or no sense, especially where the Legion is concerned. The pessimist in me is worried that, despite the can't-miss combination of Johns and Perez, DC will come up with a solution that will only make things a bigger and uglier mess.

[lazlo_toth]

I just want to say one thing about this.

A lot of the hype surrounding the lightning rod is driven by fan speculation. DC really hasn't been hyping that lightning rod all that much. It's really message board posters that have hyped up this lightning rod story as being something more major than it could be.

This is primarily a Legion story. The Legion themselves are a lower-tier DC team. They are lower tier than the JLA, the JSA, the Titans. The current Legion monthly has sales below many DC books. That doesn't mean this Legion story won't have better sales numbers. I'm just saying the team itself is lower-tier on the sales charts.

I just thought a little perspective on speculation and sales was warranted.


I guess my first repsonse to this statement is "so what?" At one point they were one of DC's best-selling titles and outsold the hell out of the Justice League. The Titans were THE elite book once, and then they eventually fell to "lower-tier" status. Now they're hot again. Levitz and Giffen made LSH into a "higher-tier" title once, who's to say Johns and Perez won't kickstart something similar?

[Kevinroc]

I guess my first repsonse to this statement is "so what?" At one point they were one of DC's best-selling titles and outsold the hell out of the Justice League. The Titans were THE elite book once, and then they eventually fell to "lower-tier" status. Now they're hot again. Levitz and Giffen made LSH into a "higher-tier" title once, who's to say Johns and Perez won't kickstart something similar?

I already made my point on this subject.


I do expect this Legion mini by Geoff Johns and George Perez to sell. The creative team of Johns and Perez make sure of that. The point I was making was that Bart can't be considered too "low tier" for returning in this mini because the Legion themselves are "low tier" in comparison to other aspects of the DCU.

[Mon-el]

The thing for me is, I'm dashed if I can tell whether Mon-Els #1 and #3 are the same person or not. In one way, they sort of have to be, and in another way, how could they be?

Oh I agree Matthew E, as I said 4 months ago when I was referring to your blog in this post.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5929555&postcount=113

I was putting it in the best perspective in layman terms for the 3 different Legions for those unlike You, Me, Paul and Sir Tim, kenaustin, Davro's, and a couple of more around here that has that "passion" for each of the Legion, so to speak. At least, Mon-El got a mention in LS/Action Legion, I don't believe I recall Element Lad even being mentioned. I have a sinking feeling that Mon-El isn't going to be even used in this story. Which would be a shame.

As legion fan's we meticulously pour over the smallest of discrepancies.

Which brings me to another question that I'm in the dark about, if we have 3 Legion's which character's get to appear?

Because some members are dead in some Legion's and some are not. Original Supergirl didn't even get a statue in Superman's Fortress in Lightning Saga/Action Legion. Was Pol ever an offical member. Do we only have 1 Ferro Lad ? How many Colossal Boy's do we get? Does Kon-El show back up with DNA's Legion? Does New Kara Zor-El appear with WaK's legion? These are only the tip of some of the question's I can only fathom to guess at until the story get's in my hands.

One more thing I don't think I've seen on any of the messageboards around the net. My first knee-jerk reaction to XS being on the right of the Time Trapper. It appeared to me that she might be evil in this story. I wasn't looking at her as being an Angel on his right shoulder and Luther being the devil on the left. The speculation in me said why would Jenni belong with 2 evil floating heads?

[Jeff O.]

To stop Superboy-Prime, maybe the Legion should use a lightning rod to bring back Prime's late girlfriend, Laurie Lemmon.

[Blueferret]

Oh I agree Matthew E, as I said 4 months ago when I was referring to your blog in this post.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5929555&postcount=113

I was putting it in the best perspective in layman terms for the 3 different Legions for those unlike You, Me, Paul and Sir Tim, kenaustin, Davro's, and a couple of more around here that has that "passion" for each of the Legion, so to speak. At least, Mon-El got a mention in LS/Action Legion, I don't believe I recall Element Lad even being mentioned. I have a sinking feeling that Mon-El isn't going to be even used in this story. Which would be a shame.

As legion fan's we meticulously pour over the smallest of discrepancies.

Which brings me to another question that I'm in the dark about, if we have 3 Legion's which character's get to appear?

Because some members are dead in some Legion's and some are not. Original Supergirl didn't even get a statue in Superman's Fortress in Lightning Saga/Action Legion. Was Pol ever an offical member. Do we only have 1 Ferro Lad ? How many Colossal Boy's do we get? Does Kon-El show back up with DNA's Legion? Does New Kara Zor-El appear with WaK's legion? These are only the tip of some of the question's I can only fathom to guess at until the story get's in my hands.

One more thing I don't think I've seen on any of the messageboards around the net. My first knee-jerk reaction to XS being on the right of the Time Trapper. It appeared to me that she might be evil in this story. I wasn't looking at her as being an Angel on his right shoulder and Luther being the devil on the left. The speculation in me said why would Jenni belong with 2 evil floating heads?

So....No Tenzil Kem, Green Lantern??:biggrin:

[kenaustin]

...I have a sinking feeling that Mon-El isn't going to be even used in this story. Which would be a shame.

As legion fan's we meticulously pour over the smallest of discrepancies.

Which brings me to another question that I'm in the dark about, if we have 3 Legion's which character's get to appear?

Because some members are dead in some Legion's and some are not. Original Supergirl didn't even get a statue in Superman's Fortress in Lightning Saga/Action Legion. Was Pol ever an offical member. Do we only have 1 Ferro Lad ? How many Colossal Boy's do we get? Does Kon-El show back up with DNA's Legion? Does New Kara Zor-El appear with WaK's legion? These are only the tip of some of the question's I can only fathom to guess at until the story get's in my hands.

Over on the DCMB I've put up a list of the Legionnaires we know, (http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000148970&tstart=0) 2nd post down, will at least appear in Lo3W. The list was gathered from the Johns & Perez interviews, and the teaser pics. I'll repost it here...


CLASSIC LEGION
Blok
Brainiac 5
Chameleon Girl
Colossal Boy
Cosmic Boy
Dawnstar
Dream Girl
Invisible Kid II
Lightning Lad
Lightning Lass
Matter-Eater Lad
Mon-El
Night Girl
Phantom Girl
Polar Boy
Saturn Girl
Shadow Lass
Shrinking Violet
Sun Boy
Superman
Timber Wolf
Ultra Boy
Wildfire

REBOOT LEGION
Cosmic Boy
Sensor
XS

THREEBOOT LEGION
Cosmic Boy
Dream Girl


One more thing I don't think I've seen on any of the messageboards around the net. My first knee-jerk reaction to XS being on the right of the Time Trapper. It appeared to me that she might be evil in this story. I wasn't looking at her as being an Angel on his right shoulder and Luther being the devil on the left. The speculation in me said why would Jenni belong with 2 evil floating heads?

Interesting, I hadn't thought of the angel/devil aspect. But why Lex Luthor, I wonder? I can't recall, but has he had any interaction with the Time Trapper? With Johns writing this, it might be some obscure meeting or reference from quite some time ago. Guess that means more longbox diving! :smile:

A couple of thoughts on the Time Trapper...
We can't assume the Time Trapper is evil in this. Although always secretive and manipulative he/she has been shown to be both malevolent and benevolent.

and

He has shown a keen interest in XS and her "ultimate destiny". See Legionnaires Annual #3, (http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=247064) for those who didn't know.

All of this is making me think too hard...but I love it!!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Given that Johns was the guy who restored the original origin of Mon-El, I don't see why he would suddenly ignore him in this story. In fact, I think it's very likely Mon-El will be playing a pretty major role. All the various different Mon-Els can easily be explained by Superboy-Prime's retcon punches.

[mswood]

Well obviously some characters wont be used much, some hardly at all. But if Perez as his way expect almost every version of those characters to appear (even if its just in one panel).

I wouldn't be surprised if Perez manages to fit every character from those universes that were legionaries and allies. But it certainly hasn't been stated as fact.

[Jeff O.]

But why Lex Luthor, I wonder? I can't recall, but has he had any interaction with the Time Trapper? With Johns writing this, it might be some obscure meeting or reference from quite some time ago. Guess that means more longbox diving! :smile:

Well, pre-Crisis, teenage Lex Luthor wanted to attack and even destroy the Legion of Super-Heroes because of what the team meant to Superboy. Lex was a teen who mastered time travel, sending his Urthlo robot through time to face the Legion in ADVENTURE COMICS No. 300. Beneath a lead mask, Urthlo (an anagram of Luthor) looked like Luthor as an adult.

In ADVENTURE COMICS No. 325, teen Lex actually traveled to the Legion's period himself -- even pretending at first to be a good Lex from a time when he still had his hair and had no grudge against Superboy.

Perhaps the Time Trapper was aware of Lex's attacks on the Legion's time period.

During Zero Hour and "End of an Era," Glorith and Mordru brought Urthlo back and sent the robot (alongside the likes of Satan Girl) against the Legion.

Now that Kal-El once again had youthful adventures with the Legion in current continuity, perhaps these stories with Lex are now back in continuity to some extent.

The good thing is that you can pick up Adventure Comics #300 and that happened. -- Geoff Johns, October 2007 (http://comics.ign.com/articles/828/828574p2.html)


Luthor also has an important connection to the Legion of Super-Villains, of course. In SUPERMAN (first series) No. 147, the first appearance of the Legion of Super-Villains, adult Luthor sent a call out to them across time and the LSV joined Luthor in the 1960s to torment Superman.

PS

Thanks for your list, Ken!

[Jeff O.]

Three of George Perez's classic covers from LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES back in the day:


http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2540/400/2540_4_277.jpg


http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2540/400/2540_4_279.jpg


http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2540/400/2540_4_280.jpg


PEREZ Legion Checklist (not counting his work on Legionnaires for CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS or the original WHO'S WHO: THE DEFINITIVE DIRECTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE):

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/legion.htm (http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/legion.htm)



EDIT/ADDITION:

Though I most definitely saw Kid Seven's post of the Legion poster by Perez, I didn't realize he mentioned Reflecto just before it. Saw that now while rereading the thread, and so his quote belongs with my post, too.

Man, I'm still very excited about George Perez being the artist on this book. I've always wanted him to do them. The covers he did years ago (during Reflecto) and the few cover or interior appearances they've made under his pencil have only wetted my appetite.

Bring on the story!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Paul Newell]

Though I most definitely saw Kid Seven's post of the Legion poster by Perez, I didn't realize he mentioned Reflecto just before it. Saw that now while rereading the thread, and so his quote belongs with my post, too.
That was a poster? I never realised. I just thought someone had stuck together the images from Blue Ribbon Digest #24. I completely missed the fact they released it as a poster.

[Jeff O.]

That was a poster? I never realised. I just thought someone had stuck together the images from Blue Ribbon Digest #24. I completely missed the fact they released it as a poster.

Well, george-perez.com lists a LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES POSTER by Perez, dated Dec. 1982.

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/legion.htm (http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/legion.htm)

Unfortunately, they don't have a scan of it.


Their page about BEST OF DC # 24 (May 1982) says, "Meet the Legion" "Was made into a poster by Semic Press."

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/best24.htm (http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/best24.htm)


When I saw Kid Seven's link from

http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/legion/docs/gallery.htm (http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/legion/docs/gallery.htm)

I was assuming that must be the poster.


Another page at george-perez.com

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/terasmies12-82.htm (http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/terasmies12-82.htm)

says, "Finnish Superman book, published by Semic Press (Sweden). Includes a poster features art and text from BEST OF DC #24, featuring LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES POSTER (Finnish 1982) (measures 19" by 10.5" wide)."

[AND]

"The Legion of Super-Heroes poster is actually shown on George's wall in Modern Masters: In the Studio With George Perez DVD, but it's unclear if it's the Finnish version or one from another country, since George mentions on the DVD that he's 'seen this (character) sheet in several different languages....it went out internationally.'"


If all versions of the poster included text, then maybe the text was taken off of mykey's scan (or perhaps the text was on the back?). Otherwise, perhaps mykey's scan is from a country where text wasn't included on the sheet.

[Jeff O.]

PS

If mykey's scan was pieced together by a fan from the actual pages or scans of BEST OF DC # 24, the person did a superb job clipping the characters and eliminating the look of the off-white, thin and somewhat transparent pages around the figures and colored backgrounds in the original newsprint digest.

For anyone interested, Levitz text with the Perez LEGION art from BEST OF DC # 24 can be found

at

http://members.fortunecity.com/jlaavenger/id48.htm (http://members.fortunecity.com/jlaavenger/id48.htm)

[kenaustin]

This isn't the 1982 Perez Legion poster, but it is a Perez Legion poster. Must be circa 1985 or later because of Sensor Girl, Quislet, and the others that joined at the same time with them.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x4/kenaustin2/PerezLegion.jpg

Perez + Legion = Great! :)

[Jeff O.]

This isn't the 1982 Perez Legion poster, but it is a Perez Legion poster. Must be circa 1985 or later because of Sensor Girl, Quislet, and the others that joined at the same time with them.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x4/kenaustin2/PerezLegion.jpg

Perez + Legion = Great! :)

That artwork (or a version of it, anyway) appears in HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE Book Two from 1986. In the comic book, there is text about the Legion and its future era on the two-page spread -- first to the right of Wildfire and then to the left of Sun Boy.

Art by George Perez and Karl Kesel.

The artwork in HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE is Perez-tastic!

[Emperor Time]

To stop Superboy-Prime, maybe the Legion should use a lightning rod to bring back Prime's late girlfriend, Laurie Lemmon.

But isn't it impossible for Laurie Lemmon to ever come back? :confused:

[Jeff O.]

But isn't it impossible for Laurie Lemmon to ever come back? :confused:

When INFINITE CRISIS SECRET FILES came out, it was sold out before I got to the comics store I was frequenting at the time. However, by that night, someone on the DC Boards had put up scans of a number of the pages. I can't find the scan right now, but as I recall, Earth-Prime Laurie Lemmon was shown to have later existed (that is, to have been reborn) on post-Crisis Earth, and she died in a car accident in the new continuity (along with Prime's adoptive parents, who didn't have a "Clark" to adopt this time around). This saddened Prime even more in the "Paradise Dimension," to learn of their fate on post-Crisis Earth.

(Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything up to this point, or else fill in details.)

Granted, in her new incarnation, Laurie might not have recognized Prime even if he went back in time and came to her before she died. After all, Superman didn't recognize Superman of Earth-Two. Kal-L lamented at the start of INFINITE CRISIS that Kal-El and others had forgotten the multiverse and the existence of Kal-L and his three companions. However, maybe love would have made Laurie remember Prime -- even if she would soon be horrified at what had become of him.

Reflecting on the lightning rod, I was just thinking out loud that one image that could stop Prime in his tracks would be seeing Laurie alive -- that is, seeing another being from Earth-Prime (and a person he cherished), even if he feared she had been corrupted by living on a different Earth. The Legion wouldn't have to go back to Earth-Prime to bring Laurie back. Only the Spectre could do that. The Legion would just have to go back in time on New Earth and prevent her death. Or else maybe they could use a lightning rod somehow to bring her back from the dead. I'm assuming her post-Crisis grave could be found, easily enough. (I doubt she was preserved as well as Lightning Lad was in his glass coffin, but that might not be a problem for 31st-century science.)

Unless after 52, Laurie no longer existed on New Earth as she had on post-Crisis Earth.

If a Legionnaire would have to sacrifice his or her own life in order for Laurie to come back via a lightning rod, however, it would probably be far better if they could instead go back and stop her from ever dying in the car accident.

Or maybe she could come back as an apparition. Maybe her ghost or spirit is watching Prime from heaven, where she would most likely have full knowledge of what they once meant to each other. Maybe she's praying she will get a chance to come back in some way and help Prime to be healed. I just thought Laurie might be the best way of stopping Prime.

[Kid Seven]

Man, Karl Kesel has gotta be one of the most underrated inkers. His work over Perez' pencils in History of the DCU were fantastic, that Legion pic up above being a prime example. That Colossal Boy in particular jumps out; he's got a Wally Wood-esque look.

And I can't think of a higher compliment than that.

[Emperor Time]

Your right I do remember Laurie Lemmon as well as Prime's adoptive parents being reborn on post-Crisis Earth and then dying from the car accident. But how did they still exist after the Anti-Monitor destroy Earth-Prime? Also I agree that Laurie Lemmon could most likely convince Superman-Prime to redeem himself and become a super hero again. :biggrin:

[Jeff O.]

Your right I do remember Laurie Lemmon as well as Prime's adoptive parents being reborn on post-Crisis Earth and then dying from the car accident. But how did they still exist after the Anti-Monitor destroy Earth-Prime?

Basically, the single Earth that we were left with at the end of CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS (and after Mekanique in ALL-STAR SQUADRON) was not limited to people who originally lived on Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-4, Earth-S, or Earth-X.

For example, Arak, Son of Thunder appeared during the Crisis in ALL-STAR SQUADRON, and after the Crisis was shown to have lived on post-Crisis Earth. But as I understood it from the letters pages of ARAK, SON OF THUNDER, Arak originally lived on his own alternate Earth. It was an Earth which had an ancient history like our own -- but with myth and magic intertwined with historical events. (I call it "Earth-Arak," myself.) He wasn't from Earths-1, 2, 4, S, or X, but he did have a modern-day counterpart who was a member of Helix on Earth-2. Both made it to post-Crisis Earth, so I guess the original Arak became an ancestor of sorts to the modern-day Arak -- as opposed to just a counterpart. Or maybe the member of Helix became a reincarnation of the Arak from Charlemagne's time. (I'm not sure if that was ever addressed.)

Here's another example. The Inferior 5 could be glimpsed on post-Crisis Earth at the end of CRISIS # 12. In the sixties, it sorta seemed that the Inferior 5 lived on Earth-1 because they met Superman, but it was an Earth that also had counterparts of Marvel Comics characters with funny names and which also had superheroes (parents of the Inferior 5) active during World War II. So if the Inferior 5 lived on Earth-1, it seemed like more of a variant of Earth-1. I mean, would their Earth have had both a Princess Power and a Wonder Woman? In the eighties, during THE OZ-WONDERLAND WAR, it was revealed that the Inferior 5 lived on Earth-12. Well, these survivors of Earth-12 made it to post-Crisis Earth, but if that fact is taken too seriously, it can be conflicting as to why the Freedom Brigade hasn't ever been shown as a post-Crisis part of the All-Star Squadron. :smile:

Then, INFINITE CRISIS revealed people from a pre-Crisis Earth called Earth-8 also made it to post-Crisis Earth.

If people from "Earth-Arak" and Earth-12 and Earth-8 were reborn on post-Crisis Earth, and Lady Quark was originally from Earth-6, it's not a stretch that people from Earth-Prime made it to post-Crisis Earth, too. Even though I'm currently still living on a version/variant of Earth-Prime that wasn't ever destroyed or integrated into post-Crisis Earth. How 'bout you? Did you see Alexander Luthor look directly at readers still on our slice of Earth-Prime during INFINITE CRISIS? Or did we not exist before that moment?

If Superboy-Prime and Earth-2 Superman hadn't gone into the Paradise Dimension, I suppose they would not have eventually been reborn on post-Crisis Earth themselves (once the waves of the Crisis had finally settled) because there was to be only one Clark Kent on post-Crisis Earth. However, there was a time when Iron Munro of the Young All-Stars was supposed to have been the energy of the Earth-2 Superman, which could not have been destroyed. This was really only mentioned on letters pages by Roy Thomas, but I read Iron Munro as a post-Crisis reincarnation of Kal-L until the point when Munro got a venereal disease in a story. (Honest.) Then, he seemed like too much of a different character. I couldn't imagine DC ever giving the original Man of Steel VD.

Or perhaps if they hadn't gone into the Dimension, Superboy-Prime and Earth-2 Superman would have eventually merged with Earth-1 Superman when his life changed into the new timeline of the Byrne Superman. There are different ways of reading counterparts, depending on the writer. Sometimes when counterparts have the same face and secret identity, they are more alike than twins -- but still are individuals. Other times, it is more like a being (or soul) is living more than one life at the same time on multiple Earths (as Donna Troy appears to have done). And I have well learned from these boards and the DC boards that some readers don't think of the post-Crisis Superman as "the Earth-1 Superman reborn" in the first place.

Also I agree that Laurie Lemmon could most likely convince Superman-Prime to redeem himself and become a super hero again. :biggrin:

Thanks for your input, Emperor! Now if only Element Lad or Cosmic Boy or Brainy could figure out a way to pull the antimatter energy out of Superboy-Prime's body (that Alexander put in him)....If it's still in there and hasn't been used up, it can't be helping.

[Emperor Time]

Wow those are all great examples of how people not from any of the five worlds can still make it to the post-Crisis Earth. And thanks for liking my input and I agree that if Prime still has any antimatter energy left then it should be cleaned out of him. :biggrin:

[kenaustin]

Over on the DCMB I've put up a list of the Legionnaires we know (http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000148970&tstart=0) will at least appear in Lo3W. The list was gathered from the Johns & Perez interviews, and the teaser pics. I'll repost it here...

New additions in BOLD.

CLASSIC LEGION
Blok
Brainiac 5
Chameleon Girl
Colossal Boy
Cosmic Boy
Dawnstar
Dream Girl
Invisible Kid II
Lightning Lad
Lightning Lass
Matter-Eater Lad
Mon-El
Night Girl
Phantom Girl
Polar Boy
Saturn Girl
Shadow Lass
Shrinking Violet
Sun Boy
Superman
Timber Wolf
Ultra Boy
White Witch - from DC Universe Zero
Wildfire

REBOOT LEGION
Cosmic Boy
Sensor
XS

THREEBOOT LEGION
Cosmic Boy
Dream Girl



Although with this great picture, first posted on the DCMBs by The Archivist, I think Legion fans of every boot will be happy...at least with character appearances! :wink:

Possible Legion of Three Worlds cover?

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x4/kenaustin2/Lo3Wpossiblecover.jpg

[Paul Newell]

WOOHOO! Looks like Laurel Gand is back in the orange costume. :)

[ThunderWolf!!!]

I have one question ...Who are the guys on the last row in the picture without numbers?They are the only ones I can't recognize.Thanks in advance.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa116/WeaponXIX/JusticeSocietyofAmerica005-2627.jpg

[Paul Newell]

Last row in order:

Shadow Lass, Invisible Kid II, Polar Boy, Dawnstar, Blok, Bouncing Boy, Duo Damsel, Ferro Lad, Matter-Eater Lad, Sensor Girl.

[ThunderWolf!!!]

Thank you very much!

[Buried Alien]

One thing I'm curious about is why Superman-Prime keeps coming up with Anti-Monitor tech. First, he's had the Anti-Monitor style body armor since INFINITE CRISIS, and in FINAL CRISIS, he's going to have an army of Shadow Demons like the Anti-Monitor used in COIE. Where is Superman-Prime coming up with all this Anti-Monitor tech?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Zero Hunter]

Well he was working with the Anti Moniter in the Sinestro Corps War story before he decided it was time to get revenge on him for what he did to his world, ao he might have picked up a few tricks then.

[matt_hatyber]

One thing I'm curious about is why Superman-Prime keeps coming up with Anti-Monitor tech. First, he's had the Anti-Monitor style body armor since INFINITE CRISIS, and in FINAL CRISIS, he's going to have an army of Shadow Demons like the Anti-Monitor used in COIE. Where is Superman-Prime coming up with all this Anti-Monitor tech?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

It will probally be one of the things geoff covers in this series.

[CBikle]

One thing I'm curious about is why Superman-Prime keeps coming up with Anti-Monitor tech. First, he's had the Anti-Monitor style body armor since INFINITE CRISIS, and in FINAL CRISIS, he's going to have an army of Shadow Demons like the Anti-Monitor used in COIE. Where is Superman-Prime coming up with all this Anti-Monitor tech?


I thought that the Anti-Monitor's armor had been reconfigured to absorb yellow sun radiation to increase his power-level and/or let him charge up more quickly; I always figured that Alexander Luthor built that for him.

Not sure how Prime would gain control over the Shadow Demons though.

[Buried Alien]

I thought that the Anti-Monitor's armor had been reconfigured to absorb yellow sun radiation to increase his power-level and/or let him charge up more quickly; I always figured that Alexander Luthor built that for him.

Alex definitely didn't build it. Superboy-Prime acquired the Anti-Monitor armor during the time that the Flashes had him trapped in the Speed Force. When Alex saw Prime wearing the armor, Alex was mystified by it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Joe Acro]

Based on the most recent issue of Action, the timing of this thing continues to befuddle me.

Superman mentions that Brainiac stated they once met two other Legions. Presumably the Legion of Three Worlds event once referenced by Starman. And yet, the upcoming event clearly takes place after the events that have been going on in Action, as the characters' appearance and the inclusion of the lightning rod attest.

So, when the event happens, will they all remember each other from some previous adventure? Or do Starman and Brainiac just have knowledge of the future?

[Ontir]

They've all met in the past, but not yet.

That's time-travel for you.

[Ian J.N.]

Based on the most recent issue of Action, the timing of this thing continues to befuddle me.

Superman mentions that Brainiac stated they once met two other Legions. Presumably the Legion of Three Worlds event once referenced by Starman. And yet, the upcoming event clearly takes place after the events that have been going on in Action, as the characters' appearance and the inclusion of the lightning rod attest.

So, when the event happens, will they all remember each other from some previous adventure? Or do Starman and Brainiac just have knowledge of the future?
The idea, I think, is that the three Legions have been in contact for many years. The upcoming LOTW isn't about their first meeting. It's about a crisis that requires all three groups' involvement.

[Captain Smith]

I'm confused by the pictures of Prime. We have a Superman-Prime splash but in the Wizard preview, he's not the bulked up Prime we saw in the Monarch fight but more of Superboy physique when the Pseudo-Kent metaphore Jun tries to blast him with the 31st century equivalent of the double barreled shotgun from the hi-tech farm.

So is Prime, the cosmic level, guardian powered PC Kryptonian level or more toned down? At his last showing, good old Supes would have his head twisted off.

We will see.

[Usernamessd]

I'm confused by the pictures of Prime. We have a Superman-Prime splash but in the Wizard preview, he's not the bulked up Prime we saw in the Monarch fight but more of Superboy physique when the Pseudo-Kent metaphore Jun tries to blast him with the 31st century equivalent of the double barreled shotgun from the hi-tech farm.

So is Prime, the cosmic level, guardian powered PC Kryptonian level or more toned down? At his last showing, good old Supes would have his head twisted off.

We will see.

I think Johns is trying to forget 'Countdown'

[Kevinroc]

I think Johns is trying to forget 'Countdown'

I think everyone is trying to forget Countdown.

[NotSuper]

Alex definitely didn't build it. Superboy-Prime acquired the Anti-Monitor armor during the time that the Flashes had him trapped in the Speed Force. When Alex saw Prime wearing the armor, Alex was mystified by it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
If Prime has all the Pre-Crisis Kryptonian abilities, such as super-intelligence, then he would be able to build advanced devices like that. Remember that super-intelligence doesn't necessarily make one more rational, though. It mostly applies to being able to create complex inventions.

He was also able to create lasers to torture Mxyzptlk in COUNTDOWN.

[Paul Newell]

I'm confused by the pictures of Prime. We have a Superman-Prime splash but in the Wizard preview, he's not the bulked up Prime we saw in the Monarch fight but more of Superboy physique when the Pseudo-Kent metaphore Jun tries to blast him with the 31st century equivalent of the double barreled shotgun from the hi-tech farm.

So is Prime, the cosmic level, guardian powered PC Kryptonian level or more toned down? At his last showing, good old Supes would have his head twisted off.

We will see.
I can't remember if it was in Green Lantern or Countdown, but it was mentioned that the energy he absorbed at the end of the Sinestro War caused him to bulk up and that it wasn't a permanent change as the enrgy would eventually be used up.

[Paul Newell]

By the way, here's a much clearer ve