Your Thoughts On Smallville?

[Gail Simone]

I'm supposed to be in the DVD commentary thing for an upcoming boxed set, and I'm curious what you guys think, particularly of their Supergirl.

Just wonderin'.

Gail

[Michael P]

I tried watching one episode, around the third season or so, and was thoroughly unimpressed. Nothing I've seen or heard since has convinced me otherwise.

[Puma]

I tried watching one episode, around the third season or so, and was thoroughly unimpressed. Nothing I've seen or heard since has convinced me otherwise.

Same here. Seemed like Dawson's Creek but with super powers.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

In terms of quality, I guess it had it's day (however brief), but I eventually tired of all the nonsense like goofier & goofier kryptonite mutant plots (or variations of them, as with the Red stuff), ever cornier soap, and turning things like Jor-El & The Ship into lame deus ex machinas.

I quit in 2005 and-- with the exception of Erica Durance & Laura Vandervoort spreads in certain magazines-- haven't really looked back.

[Bo Bo]

I've followed it from the beginning. Although lately it's more like I have nothing else to watch and I've stuck around this long so why not. They still have the occasional good episode, but it seems like they're getting few and far between.

I take it for what it is, typical CW show except with DC character names thrown in.

As for Supergirl, I'm ambivalent. Although, I do find it weird that they are still trying to show Clark as a father figure to Kara like in the comics, but they are basically the same age. Clark is too young to be the "adult" and/or Kara is too old to be the "teenager".

[Alan Lynch]

I've only ever seen a couple of episodes, but I've always wondered how long they can drag things out before actually making Clark Superman. They can't go on indefinitely as they are, right?

[Bo Bo]

I've only ever seen a couple of episodes, but I've always wondered how long they can drag things out before actually making Clark Superman. They can't go on indefinitely as they are, right?

I think the plan is that there's one or two more seasons left at the most.

[Chiroptera]

DISCLAIMER:This is my personal opinion about Smallville. I'm aware some people still think it's a good show. I once was. I no longer am. If you don't wish to read a negative opinion of the show then skip this post and move on to the next one!

I watched up till the fourth season. I never thought the series really felt like it was in anyway related to Superman. Clark Kent never seemed like Clark Kent to me. Still, I rather enjoyed the first three seasons. About half-way through the fourth season I thought "Why am I still watching this crap?! It's not even Superman anymore! It's more like frikkin' X-men! Mutation! Super Powers! Angst! Mutation! More Angst! People who don't understand me!"

Then for some bizarre reason I kept watching it! When they introduced Ollie he used a CROSSBOW more than a bow and I wanted to punch some body.

Then there was a Flash who was apparently supposed to be Barry, but acted more like Wally.

And a Lois Lane who didn't act like Lois Lane, and a Lana who liked creating love triangles more complex than the mystery about Bermuda's.

As the fifth season got under way I once more found myself asking "WHY AM I STILL WATCHING THIS!?"
Mercifully, I went on a vacation about three episodes into the fifth season, during the vacation I missed two episodes of Smallville. It broke my habbit. I no longer cared about the show. Since then I've watched maybe 8 episodes..

And not even the whole thing, I'll sit down to try and give it a chance but by the time the episode is halfway over I've muted it and just left the tv on behind me while I'm working on my book, or an art commission or any number of other things that don't involve killing my brain cells.

[Joe Rice]

I actually enjoyed it for the first two or three seasons, when it really was Dawson's with powers. There were cute ideas, some nice cliffhangers, and Lex was always fun. But the more into the comic stuff they got the more they lost me. Now, from what I can tell, it's some awful science-fiction soap opera, rather than a teen drama with laser eyes.

[LewisH]

She has the perfect look and I like the personality and story direction they chose for her. She is naive about some things but smarter and stronger than Clark on others. They took elements of her story and character from a lot of the different Supergirls that have appeared over the years. They added a character that can enhance others and bring out stories that they couldn't otherwise tell and that's what you want when a character is added to a show.

As far as Smallville overall is concerned, though, it is really hit and miss for me. I loved all the Supergirl episodes but a lot of the storylines involving
Lana, Lois, and Chloe seem forced at times as if they are trying to shoehorn
a daytime soap into the wrong setting.

When they stick with more comic book stories it works for me. I certainly enjoyed the initial Justice League appearances. However, when they mix in politics for their own agenda as they just did with Black Canary it doesn't work as well.

If I had to grade the series overall I'd give it a C+. It's not must watch tv by any means but if I can't find anything else to do I'll give it a look, much like Charmed.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

Smallville was pretty ok in the first 3 seasons.
The other seasons were boring except for James Marsters as Brainiac and Laura Vandervoort as Supergirl.

When they needed a Supergirl I thought Kristen Bell would be a great choice. When I saw Laura I thought :"This is not gonna be cool."
However, Laura surprised me in a positive way.

I am really sick of Lana. Things with here are really overdone. I am sick of the Dawson's Creek BS that has invaded Smallville and sick of all those very irritating songs being played.

What I also miss these days is the hook, a.k.a. the beginning of the show before you see the intro. In the first 3 seasons any episode had a great hook. When you saw the hook it was like "Wow. This is awesome. I wonder what's gonna happen. " As of season 4 it looks as if the quality of the hooks has become really lousy.

And Black Canary was really a big joke.

And where is Guy Gardner ???????????
He should really have had an appearance
by now. Clark hardly had to deal with anyone
obnoxious.

[scout1279]

If Smallville didn't suck, Geektress might not exist, so I think it's AWESOME.

Specifically with regard to Supergirl, it's hard to say really, because they haven't done much with her. She's had a ton of screentime that either amounts to her being victimized in some way, flirting with another girl's boyfriend, or wearing skimpy outfits. She doesn't really have much of a personality or a purpose on the show.

[Michael P]

I suppose I should elaborate on "thoroughly unimpressed":

I found Tom Welling to be as charismatic as wet laundry, so that was points off right away. Lana Lang seemed to be the focus of several romantic triangles in spite of having no personality whatsoever. The idea of Jon Kent and Jor-El's ghost or whatever sparring over their conflicting desires for Clark's destiny appealed to me, but the vagueness surrounding exactly what it was Jor-El was planning suggested to me that the writers didn't quite know themselves, and were just stringing things along until they could figure it out.

But most of all, it hacked me off that the writers were trying to have things two ways, regarding Clark's future as Superman. In the episode I saw, Clark (apparently under the influence of red kryptonite, which turns you evil) was running around Metropolis robbing banks in broad daylight. In street clothes. With no mask. While something like that does make for a good cliffhanger, it also pretty much puts paid to the idea of him ever strapping on a cape and saving the city. I mean, come on. I don't care how Middle America it is, an unstoppable bulletproof bank robber is going to be nationwide news, his face is going to be in every post office, and it's not going to take long for somebody to look at a Smallville High yearbook and notice his face in between Sophie Kendricks and Adam Kepler. But at the end of the episode, he just takes off the Ring of Alignment Reversal, and that seems to be that, in spite of his having revealed himself to both a newspaper editor and a crime boss. Because, of course, the show has to end with him becoming Superman. So, once you've decided to throw any chance of your show having an internal logic that far out the window, you've lost me as a viewer.

All in all, the only salvageable thing to me was Lex Luthor, and that's generally the kiss of death for a Superman series.

[diana_fan]

I like Smallville. There. I said it.

Sure, it started out as a Freak of the Week show. And sure, it has its problems and its weak episodes. But in the end, its basically young Clark Kent, Lex Luthor, and the rest working their way through various situations. And it works for me.

As to Kara, I think she's been a great addition. For one, she's gorgeous. Just as Tom Welling was perfect casting as Clark, Laura Vandervoort is perfect casting as Kara. Secondly, she acts as both a foil for Clark, and a way for him to connect to his Kryptonian past. And to connect to that past through someone other than the cold Jor-El "projection."

She's got spunk, but she also is trying desperately to fit in. So, like her comic book counter-part, she is nearly unstoppable and has limitless power, but her real challenge is to find a way to connect to humanity. And there's no Kryptonian power set that enables that. This is where Clark plays an important role in her life on Earth.

So both Clark and Kara have something to give to one and other. And I like that element. Also, hey! She's Supergirl! That's just fun in and of itself, AFAIC. :)

PS: PLEASE give her her memory and powers back soon!

[PatrickG]

I enjoyed the first few years. They lost me about the time Loeb left and the Jor-El plot never worked for me. The JLA stuff is interesting. Chloe and Lex are probably my two favorite characters on the show.

As for Kara... Probably the best thing they've done in three years. She's a fun character. Reminds me a bit of Anya from Buffy in a weird way.

I think what Smallville's missing the most is humor, which is what separates the Dawson's Creek clones from shows like Veronica Mars and Buffy. It seems to inhabit a perilously humorless, perilously sexy alternate reality full of landscapes with riders on horseback, seedy neon nightclubs and soundstage laboratories culled from an X-Files garage sale.

Kara, however, does add something kinda cool. She's similar to the contemporary Kara in the comics but I think she benefits from a marginally more realistic setting, some of the comic's excesses toned down and being played by a flesh and blood actress; for whatever reason, I think people are more tolerent of an attractive actress behaving in certain ways (headstrong, sexy, empowered, confused) than seeing a heavily cartooned pencil and ink drawing of a woman behaving the same way.

I've been saying since issue 6 or so of the comic that they need a true creative relaunch. (Each creative team on Kara's comic has brought some new good things but I don't feel any of them have been effectively marketed as a new starting point.)

Ultimately, I think one thing that benefits the show is that it's clearly an interpretation or incarnation of a timeless character. Whereas comic book Kara keeps beating people over the head with the fact that she's a brand new character.

Which is funny because every creative relaunch of Superman has harkened back to a prior version with Byrne echoing the Golden Age through the early 50s and guys like Loeb echoing the Weisinger era. There's the impression, outside of die hard Superman partisans that Superman is Superman is Superman and that all interpretations are different takes on the same guy -- whereas with Supergirl, there's this weird need to establish each comic iteration as a COMPLETELY distinct character, which curtails fan momentum and divides people.

Smallville Kara's differences are more tolerable in part because everybody on the show is different, perhaps.

I think the key with any Super-person is to move beyond nitpicky biographical, soap opera, premise-based storytelling and really go wild with them, building worlds and situations around their abilities and hearts.

Most characters react to their world and situation but half the fun of the Kryptonian types is that they're so powerful and so driven that you build the world and situations around the characters; you have to tailor make threats and obstacles for them because few real ones would exist... And the ones that do are emotional and universal but you have to tailor HOW they happen. Superman doesn't just have an argument with his wife. He loses faith in his marriage on a planet ruled by creatures who feed on negative emotions. He doesn't have a fight with his parents, he fights Metalloid machines impersonating them. Superman and Supergirl aren't like other super-heroes who are often normal folks with powers thrown in on top of their normal lives. They are ALLEGORIES.

Smallville tweaks the allegory a bit but it's still an allegory. The threats and challenges the characters face are threats and challenges real people face -- only SUPER. (In the case of Smallville, the oddities are Super-perverse. You don't have a friend die in Smallville or lose touch with an old friend; no. They fake their death and get repolaced by a clone. Still allegory though as opposed to a reality which happens to have people with powers.)

However, Smallville is a weird microcosm where all of those things work because the universe is skewed around serial soap opera.

[beetlebum]

Two words for you: Justin. Hartley.

YUM!

He's part of the reason why I'm still into blokes! ;)

As for Smallville, I liked last season. Season 4 was not that bad, though it did have its absurd moments (what was with that Charmed rip off episode?)

I'm beginning to lose interest in it now. I suspect it will be over by next season. Thank God, at this interval, watching the show is becoming an exercise in torture (hyperbole, I know. But it's just not that good anymore).

As for what you should say, just prat on about how Superman is our Heracles, say some really big words, use obscure analogies ( doing so ALWAYS makes you look kewl ;p) show some of that infamous Gail charm and blah blah blah, yada yada, you should be fine. ;D

[KevinTBrown]

I gave it 6 episodes. I got tired of cardboard acting and "kryptonite villain of the week".

I did catch the last, oh, 5-10 minutes of the Supergirl episode by pure accident and, in that very brief look, she appeared to be your stereotypical "California blond full of 'angst'" that Hollywood likes to depict. Pretty much like any other teen girl on, say, Dawson's Creek or a similar show. Only she had super powers.

[diana_fan]

I gave it 6 episodes. I got tired of cardboard acting and "kryptonite villain of the week".

I did catch the last, oh, 5-10 minutes of the Supergirl episode by pure accident and, in that very brief look, she appeared to be your stereotypical "California blond full of 'angst'" that Hollywood likes to depict. Pretty much like any other teen girl on, say, Dawson's Creek or a similar show. Only she had super powers.

Yeah, but that's Supergirl. :)

She's blonde, beautiful, full of powers, and equally full of troubles, angst, and confusion. Actually, the Smallville version is, in many ways, more well-adjusted than the comics version.

And both versions are not so pure that they won't use the fact that they attractive to their advantage. And then feel kinda crappy about it afterwards.

[DarkCrisis]

I think its a jumbled mess.

Lana is a horrid character now.

Lex is just about there. He's so wishy washy.

Supergirlis just okay. Nothing has really been done with her it.

The whole Kryptonian thing is stupid. My dad lived here! My uncle is here! Blah blah. Ghosts! Uugghhh.

I do like hwo they bring in other DC characters on occasion. Flash (Bart), Green Arrow, etc. Black Canary was kind of sad though.

I'd stop watching it if I didn't liek Superhero stuff.

and why are you onthe DVD Gail? Write an episode or something?

[diana_fan]

I think its a jumbled mess.

Lana is a horrid character now.

I love psycho Lana. I mean, she's practically a sociopath! :)

[Tyr]

I'm curious, why do you ask, Gail?

I know you weren't crazy about this current season, or for that matter how Black Canary and Lois are protrayed, are you finding it hard to find good things to say about this season? No shame if you are. I know I'd have a tough time with it if I was in your shoes.

[DaeJi]

I watched up to the third season. Then I discovered crack (a.k.a. World of Warcraft). Once I was to kick that habit I couldn't get back into the show.

[KenK]

I've tried to stay loyal, but it's getting to the point where it really feels like they're just making it up as it goes along. Seasons one through four, it felt like it had a genuine goal, a path that would soon end in some way or another. But these last three seasons, they've just been throwing in everything but the kitchen sink, and a lot of it just doesn't fit. I've enjoyed other heroes appearing on the show because more often than not, there was genuine effort to make the characters work. And certain characters lent themselves to interpretation. The Flash worked 'cause he was essentially Impulse. And as a character, Impulse was pretty much a hyperactive teen with a shady past that you could get away with tweaking. Cyborg worked because we associate him with the TEEN Titans. Him appearing as a teenager on Smallville, where it's supposed to be Clark as a teenager, just fits. I think what works best is when, no matter how the character is re-worked, what matters is whatever relationship that character develops with Clark. I don't mind Lois' inclusion, because I feel the relationship that she has with Clark is comparable to their adult counterparts. Their interactions feel very much inspired by their interactions as reporting partners. It's not the same as say, Jimmy Olsen, who's appearance on Smallville pretty much betrays the essence of the character. He's supposed to be the cursory observer of everything that revolves around Superman, the youthful conduit between young readers and that fantastical world. Furthermore, as much as he idolizes Superman, he also idolizes Clark. He's about the only character in Superman's world that really pays attention to and admires both personas. On Smallville, he's a romantic foil. When he's with Chloe, it makes Clark jealous. Now he's cozying up with Kara, and it makes Chloe jealous. And it becomes baggage that the show just doesn't need.

Then of course, there is Lana. I don't think I've ever encountered a character written as badly as her in recent memory. It's mind-boggling, and I'm left wondering what Clark ever saw in her. Especially now.

[John Hays]

I've always been a fan. The season with the witch stuff was the weakest. I've enjoyed the Krypton-related stuff (not the freak of the week stuff, the actual Krypton stuff with Jor-El, Christopher Reeve, etc...). I think they've done an excellent job bringing in former alumni like Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain, etc...

Supergirl's been a good addition. She's really cute, and can act pretty well. She's also just as nice in person.

Keep in mind that the characters you see are NOT the fully developed ones in the comics. This is all like Year One type stuff, so the characterizations aren't going to be spot on, and shouldn't be.

[KenK]

I've always been a fan. The season with the witch stuff was the weakest. I've enjoyed the Krypton-related stuff (not the freak of the week stuff, the actual Krypton stuff with Jor-El, Christopher Reeve, etc...). I think they've done an excellent job bringing in former alumni like Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain, etc...

I definitely agree with that. Seeing Reeve on the show, and giving him a great character to play, and not just shoehorning him in because he's played Superman. Furthermore, seeing Kidder and Cain was great as well. In that regard, I think they've been very respectful in having those appearances, and making them matter independent of who was playing those characters.

[Night Swordsman]

Gail,i got to ask a question,and i usually TRY not to ask you any.

But WHY are you a part of the Smallville DVD?

You did not write for the show or the comic,iirc. You DID write for Action Comics for awhile,but other than that,there really is no ties between you and Smallville. Are they just getting a bunch of interviews from previous Superman writers?

It just seems strange. It would be like asking Marv Wolfman and Roger Stern to do commentary for the Spider-Man 3 DVD. Please do not take offense.

And i consider the last two years of smallville so bad i have given up on it,despite the fact i LIKE the cast.

[Corrina]

Bad acting, scripts that tend not to rise above mediocre.

They had some nice, interesting ideas new ideas about how to handle Krypton but they ultimately turned out not to be that interesting in execution.

[Tad Sivana]

I have enjoyed the show and I think it's great accomplishment was to keep the characters visible and popular on TV despite the show following so many other iterations of the character.
Who would have guessed that DC and Superman could steal Marvel's lunch by putting the teen angst that was such a notable part of SpiderMan into Smallville? And they made it work!
The show is a little tired now, (my wife can't stand it), but it has contributed some great glosses on the Superman mythos:
1. Meteor Rocks....great use of the Kryptonite as the CAUSE of so much of Clark's troubles. Great guilt trip for the Kryptonian kid.
2. 'Year One' type build-up to the Justice League. Good characterizations of the 'not-quite-ready-for-primetime' heroes. This was definitely the peak of the show so far and subsequent shows have been a bit slack.
3. Lionel Luthor....terrific character and great interaction with Lex sets up a great path to build up some backstory. I'm personally not too thrilled with Jor-El connection on the show, but let's face it; this is a character who could and should be in the comic story, too.
4. Which leads me to my favorite addition to the mythos: Chloe!
I always enjoyed her as the proto-Lois Lane. Really, something tragic should have happened to her which sets up Clark's falling for Lois in Metropolis much later in his story. Chloe is spunky, adorable and lethally curious....every trait that makes Lois irresistible to Clark. She deserves a place in the comic story, too!
Kara's characterization had a promising start, but boy, they sure write her dumb! I don't think they've done her any favors. I do like the idea that because she's female she's more advanced in her development than Kal.
You could have some fun with that.
Unfortunately the show has all the earmarks of just petering out and fading away. I'd wish that the producers, who have done some great work, would choose to go out with a bang and some big resolution to make it a really coherent (and collectible) story arc. Maybe we finally leave the farm and head to the big city?
To sum up, a good series that has made some interesting explorations into the Superman Ur-Legend.

[Michael P]

It would be like asking Marv Wolfman and Roger Stern to do commentary for the Spider-Man 3 DVD.

That's about the only way I'd buy that piece of ass film on video.

[PatrickG]

Gail,i got to ask a question,and i usually TRY not to ask you any.

But WHY are you a part of the Smallville DVD?

You did not write for the show or the comic,iirc. You DID write for Action Comics for awhile,but other than that,there really is no ties between you and Smallville. Are they just getting a bunch of interviews from previous Superman writers?

It just seems strange. It would be like asking Marv Wolfman and Roger Stern to do commentary for the Spider-Man 3 DVD. Please do not take offense.

And i consider the last two years of smallville so bad i have given up on it,despite the fact i LIKE the cast.

IIRC Mark Waid and Geoff Johns did commentary on the Super Friends DVDs.

However, that does make some more sense as they could provide background on the characters and comics and Johns probably grew up on Super Friends while Waid, I'd imagine, watched them in high school and college.

[PatrickG]

Bad acting, scripts that tend not to rise above mediocre.

They had some nice, interesting ideas new ideas about how to handle Krypton but they ultimately turned out not to be that interesting in execution.

I think all of that would be forgivable if everyone didn't seem so stone-faced serious/angsty that it bordered on being a French fashion shoot.

The show needs a whimsy infusion. The times they try, I feel like my uncle cracked a lame pun at Thanksgiving. Like there should be a "wah-wah-waaaaaaah" sound effect.

These characters live in a pop cultural vacuum. They aren't terribly funny. There's no mushy heart at the center of it.

The show needs a Xander or a character like Veronica's dad. Give us some more average people to play the super-ness off of and give the characters some real wit as opposed to meta-humor gems like, "That guy is running so fast, all I saw was a flash. He must be the fastest man alive!"

One thing this show could really use are buybacks. IMHO, they'd the gold standard of comedy and characterization, coupled with the ability to deadpan. As-in, "Lex is going to blow up the dam! That diseased maniac is... Wow. I never really listened to myself talking. Do I do this often? Chloe, I'm going to go do my thing. Check Craig's list while I'm gone and see if you can find any writers to come up with better catch phrases for me."

[stamen]

I'm supposed to be in the DVD commentary thing for an upcoming boxed set, and I'm curious what you guys think, particularly of their Supergirl.

Just wonderin'.

Gail

I strongly dislike the series. I'm not "against" it or anything. There's a bunch of people I know and love who do dig the show. Personally, it's just too 90210emo-ish for me.

But I will say that Michael Rosenbaum is totally awesome as Lex Luthor. The casting and scripting for that character have been phenomenal during the few times I watched.

[Zel]

As I check the channel guide at 8:00 to see what's on, I notice Smallville and that reminds me that Supernatural will be on in an hour. So, Smallville's ok in my book.

My main problem with the show is Clark's character. He's that kind of completely impractical, unreasonable, saturday morning kids show 'good guy' that often he doesn't seem like a real person.

Also they just need to get rid of Lana and Lois and have Clark hook up with Chloe. She's turned out be the only girl in the series he could be with without it seeming forced and awkward, probably much to the writers dismay. There's just too much Lana baggage and there's been zero chemistry between Clark and Lois since they've introduced her. Alot of people say how this new supergirl is pretty, but I just don't see it. Acting-wise she's on par with the rest of the show.

[scout1279]

Bad acting, scripts that tend not to rise above mediocre.

They had some nice, interesting ideas new ideas about how to handle Krypton but they ultimately turned out not to be that interesting in execution.
Kor-El was assume though. He had SCIENCE!


4. Which leads me to my favorite addition to the mythos: Chloe!
I always enjoyed her as the proto-Lois Lane. Really, something tragic should have happened to her which sets up Clark's falling for Lois in Metropolis much later in his story. Chloe is spunky, adorable and lethally curious....every trait that makes Lois irresistible to Clark. She deserves a place in the comic story, too!
I used to love Chloe too, but now they've turned her into Jesus - healing the sick, rising from the dead, no discernable personality. What was that all about?

IIRC Mark Waid and Geoff Johns did commentary on the Super Friends DVDs.

However, that does make some more sense as they could provide background on the characters and comics and Johns probably grew up on Super Friends while Waid, I'd imagine, watched them in high school and college.
Their commentary was fun. I wish the second set had good bonus features like that.

I haven't seen it, but the season 6 DVD set has a feature about Green Arrow with Denny O'Neil, Judd Winick and Kevin Smith, and season 4 had a thing talking to different actresses who have portrayed Lois Lane. I assume they are doing something similar to that about Supergirl.

[MacQuarrie]

I lost interest a while ago, like around the time Aquaman showed up. Came back for a couple episodes of the Green Arrow story, and haven't looked back.

It became a convoluted mess, but really it was wrong from the git-go. One minor change in episode one would have made the whole thing a far superior show.

The change I would have made?

Kristin Kruek's character should have been named Chloe, and Allison Mack's character should have been Lana. Having oblivious Clark Kent utterly ignoring his best friend Lana while mooning over some ditz of a cheerleader would have greatly improved everything, since we know that Lana will eventually be "the one that got away", his lost love from high school.

[saintsaucey]

Gail,

Smallville is a mediocre show with a few fantastic episodes. I haven't seen anything with their super girl so I don't know. But I will buy the season with you as a commentater. You need to send a shout out to yabs though. I'll probably wait and buy the full series. I had all the seasons and sold them so now I'll wait and buy the full series set.

[kingdom2000]

The execution of Supergirl has been very strange. Its like they read the "origin" of her from Superman/Batman and the first Supergirl arc where going to use that as the blueprint for her. That didn't go over well with the audience, I think not because of the comic but because the writers where not really behind and more importantly the actress simply doesn't have the skill to pull of a role of that complexity.

DC then decided to abandon the slutty/bad girl thing and go back to the classic next door Kara, the Smallville writers wanted to do the same thing but couldn't figure out how to get there. So they did a little reconning, had her disappear for a several issues (despite the lack of concern from Clark contradicts previous overprotective episodes) and now just returned after just recovering from amnesia. Basically she is now as confusing and contradictory on TV as she is in the comics...ie a mess.

The result is what was a completely unneccessary character has become even more unncessary. It also dilutes the power of he who will be Superman. Now they have to keep inserting her into conflicts and the problem is when you have two superpowered characters you have to put in twice the effort to neurtalize one or both of them. A lot of wasted show time that could be used doing other, better things (say Lex or yummy Allison Mack). It doesn't help that while the supergirl actress has a great body, her face is blah and her acting is horrible.

For a while the show did an excellent job with the Clark Kent and Lex Luthor arc, showing how their interactions led one to decend to evil, the other to reinforce his views of good and humanity. When they focus on that dynamic the show is awesome to watch, sadly though over the last few seasons that focus has been completely lost which is a shame. They found it a little bit with last week's episode where Clark goes into Lex's mind (don't ask how/why) that reminded me of why I liked the show. When the show is about Clark and Lex, its an excellent program. The minute the focus changes to anyone else, it stops being as good.

I do like Smallville, the potential is still strong but the last two seasons have shown why the shelf life of a serial television series (with actual continiuty) should be kept to 7 years. The creators simply seem to run out of steam. If they return to the core concepts from the first couple seasons, maybe they will find themselves again.

[DarkCrisis]

BTW every character on that show has had enough head trauma that they should be brain damaged.

Of course the way some of the stories unfold that might be the only reason why they act the way they do.

[Hurricane]

I'd heard really good things about this show and decided to give it a chance. I hated it. My cousin is a freak for this show and tries to get me to watch it. I just can't.

[Johnny_Luck]

I hate Superman and his comics, but I've always been in love with smallville.

Glover, Michael and Kristin are pretty solid when they give them stuff to work with and Welling is dry enough to make a believable Kent/Superman in Training.

I would say that 57 of the shows 143 eps to date are either really, really good or super amazing and thats not counting the good and okay episodes.

Yeah its had its low moments like Cyborg, Aqua, Hypnotic, Lucy, Velocity, Truth, Delete, Ageless,


and had its overall horrid characters/actors like Pete. Overall the the show has likable people and is entertaining enough for me to want to come back watching week after week after week for 7 years and that says something because most shows, even the so called really good ones people love usually don't even make it to 5.

as for their supergirl I really think she is great. The actress definately looks like supergirl to me, her tone and delivery fit the character as well and I loved her interactions with people like Clark, her introduction to Lana was pretty darn funny., etc. while she might not have been needed per say she adds a fun element to the show.

[Hybrid2]

mostly the only good thing in the show is Chloe.

Clark mostly come out as dumb in many episode.
There was some good episode.Like justice.
But i dont like the new season.

Something that have bodered me from the start,Smallville is supose to be SMALL,and there's murders almost every week?Is this supossed to be a town of psycos?

[Bo Bo]

Something that have bodered me from the start,Smallville is supose to be SMALL,and there's murders almost every week?Is this supossed to be a town of psycos?

Anyone else notice how busy the smallville hospital is? Everytime they show a shot of the entrance (which is the same one I believe) There's people going in and out, never just an empty entrance.

[Spiffy]

I'm supposed to be in the DVD commentary thing for an upcoming boxed set, and I'm curious what you guys think, particularly of their Supergirl.

Just wonderin'.

Gail
If you are there to comment on their Supergirl, I don't think you'll get in much trouble. Although I've been at best an irregular viewer, her character seemed one of the few that actually worked. "Fish out of water" is always a good place to start.

If you have to comment on Lex, it won't be too bad either. Or even a few divergent but not bad tries like Brainiac, Green Arrow, etc. won't taste all that bitter going down.

But if its on Lana, Lois, or Clark himself? That might be a problem. Those characters are all nightmares.

And in your case I guess, there's a mess with Black Canary too to consider. :D

[Paul McEnery]

That's about the only way I'd buy that piece of ass film on video.

Last I looked, "piece of ass" is a term of approval.

Please rectify this.

[Paul McEnery]

The execution of Supergirl has been very strange. Its like they read the "origin" of her from Superman/Batman and the first Supergirl arc where going to use that as the blueprint for her. .

Didn't Jeph Loeb work on the show?

[Magneto_X]

Didn't Jeph Loeb work on the show?

Consulting and supervising producer from 2002-2004.

[Paul McEnery]

My main problem with the show is Clark's character. He's that kind of completely impractical, unreasonable, saturday morning kids show 'good guy' that often he doesn't seem like a real person.

Oh, that's the good bit. Clark is duh uh umm. What completely asinine self-righteous thing will he do this week to get some people nearly killed?

Which means that Lex is right. Yay Lex!

Though not as right as Lionel, who is my hero.

This show completely fills my 90210 presecription. It is stupid, but knowing stupid.

[4thHorseman]

It's a terrible show with plots that seem to be ran into the ground repeatedly (same plots over and over again too). Acting is awful, villains are defeated relatively easy, people find out the secret then forget, same structure ever season, and I hate that the soap opera takes over most of the show when I want to see Clark taking advantage of his powers to help people more.

Yet...I've bought ever box set so far and can't stop.

[Dark Galaxy]

The hubby and I watched religiously for a few years.

It had it's weaknesses, but was still cute. For the first season or so, it really was a "freak of the week" formula, but had it's fun moments. Although I wanted to kick Lana in her whiny little head since the very first episode.

When the characters went away to college, and Pa Kent was running for Congress, and some other shenanigans were going on, the formula changed enough for us to reconcile the urge we had felt for a while to stop watching. We never really missed it.

I'd watch the rest of the series in reruns or if I come across it on dvd, but I wouldn't spend the money to buy it on dvd.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

I like some things, not so crazy on others. I think the smartest thing about this show was the friendship between Lex and Clark. That was probably the best thing about this series as a superman fan.

Now I kind of wonder when Clark's going to jump to Metropolis for good. I really don't understand why he's still in Smallville at this point. He's done high school, his family is gone, what's really left for him?

JP

[PatrickG]

Didn't Jeph Loeb work on the show?

He joined when they introduced Red K and left about the time most people think it jumped the shark. About the same time he left SUPERMAN/BATMAN, shortly after his son died.

He went to work on LOST for a year or two and is now on HEROES.

I gather a lot of what he does is what they call "breaking the story", where after collecting the staff writers' ideas, Loeb plots out the character beats for what happens in every episode and sends the outlines to individual writers to base their drafts on, with the showrunners getting first and final approval and handling rewrites.

[Magneto_X]

I like some things, not so crazy on others. I think the smartest thing about this show was the friendship between Lex and Clark. That was probably the best thing about this series as a superman fan.

Agreed.

I liked the Lex/Clark friendship in Superman: Birthright for exploring that subject, too.


Now I kind of wonder when Clark's going to jump to Metropolis for good. I really don't understand why he's still in Smallville at this point. He's done high school, his family is gone, what's really left for him?

JP

When the show ends. Maybe.

[diana_fan]

DC then decided to abandon the slutty/bad girl thing and go back to the classic next door Kara, the Smallville writers wanted to do the same thing but couldn't figure out how to get there.

OK, so I self-censored here, since my initial response was profanity-laced and very angry.

But can you explain how a girl who is not only a VIRGIN, but has never been to second base even, is a slut? Or is slutty?

Because I'm really tired of people referring to Kara as a slut. Actually, I'm pretty tired of people referring to anyone as a slut, for the most part. I've known a few women who referred to themselves as sluts, and who actually lived up to the title.

Anyways, it's a pet peeve.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I enjoyed the first 3 seasons.
By the fourth, it was already tired.
The "witch plot" in particular really made my teeth cringe.
I think that what bothers me is that the show doesn´t seem to go anywhere.
True, Lana and Chloe finaly discovered the truth (took them "only" 5 seasons), and Lex finaly became evil (a transition that came just outta nowhere; sure there were hints that he was becoming moraly compromised, but they could have done a better transition than "one fine day he wakes up and he´s evil").
Clark is less and less likeable by the season, when Ollie (man, Ollie is great!) jumped at him, I was right there cheering:
"- Dude, get off my back, I´m out there every night fighting the good fight! You have all these powers and you just sit by the farm watching the grass grow!"
I like the fact that they´ve started showing more capes slowly but they kinda look awkward in the show with all the colorful plastic uniforms.
Smallville used to have a more reallistic vibe to it, the spandex just... ugh!

Never cared much for Lois, I still think Chloe should have turned out to be her.
Lana is slowly starting to get interesting with the foundation she created but she needs to lose the emo routine.
She still has that "It´s all about me, me, me" thing going but what can you do?

What was that other thing you wanted to know...Supergirl!

Oh, Supergirl....
I don´t think they should have put her in the show, period!
Supergee shoud only appear much later on, when Supes has already established himself as a superhero.
But now that she´s in...

1) I think she´s too old.
IMHO, she should be 10-12. A little kid with superpowers, now THAT would have been awesome!
How old was Evan Rachel Wood when they filmed "Once and Again" that show that starred Rocketeer?
I remember watching it and thinking "-Man, this kid would make a WONDERFUl Supergirl!"

2) She´s too... "earthling". Same prob as in the comic.... imagine that you´re a 12-20 years old girl who grew up in Krypton. You probably wouldn´t even know what "dude" means. I´d have loved a fish-out-of-water Kara.


Okay, I´ve said too much. Back to drawing indies for ye, Zeu.

[kingdom2000]

OK, so I self-censored here, since my initial response was profanity-laced and very angry.

But can you explain how a girl who is not only a VIRGIN, but has never been to second base even, is a slut? Or is slutty?

Because I'm really tired of people referring to Kara as a slut. Actually, I'm pretty tired of people referring to anyone as a slut, for the most part. I've known a few women who referred to themselves as sluts, and who actually lived up to the title.

Anyways, it's a pet peeve.

So don't like the word slut? To bad, still fits the early version of the character. If she is a version who has never been to 2nd base, the writers did a piss poor job expressing that with some of the behavior they wrote in her first year or so of existence. If I remember right you and many others where complaining about this too, her characterization being another example of the deep seeded hatred that comicdom really feels for woman but try to hide.

That no longer applies to the character, they retconned all that out (by simply ignoring it). Now the character is more of a mix of the old character with JLU Kara thrown in for balance.

Besides, the world needs more sluts, male and female. Its too prudish nowadays. More power to em real world or otherwise.

[diana_fan]

So don't like the word slut? To bad, still fits the early version of the character. If she is a version who has never been to 2nd base, the writers did a piss poor job expressing that with some of the behavior they wrote in her first year or so of existence. If I remember right you and many others where complaining about this too, her characterization being another example of the deep seeded hatred that comicdom really feels for woman but try to hide.

That no longer applies to the character, they retconned all that out (by simply ignoring it). Now the character is more of a mix of the old character with JLU Kara thrown in for balance.

Besides, the world needs more sluts, male and female. Its too prudish nowadays. More power to em real world or otherwise.

NO. You most DEFINITELY do NOT remember correctly. I never, ever said anything of the sort.

And it is not, in any way shape or form, appropriate. And your saying that it was doesn't make it so. Since you didn't bother to back up your statements, I'll figure that you don't know what you're talking about, and move on.

Fair enough? Thanks. Thought so.

[kingdom2000]

Well lets see, its inferred she slept with Darkseid, Powerboy and few others. Her goal when coming to earth was to kill Superman. Massive daddy issues. All in what in DCU time would be maybe 2-3 months, but probably less. You did read her first appearance in Superman/Batman, and Supergirl 1-6, little more in 12-15 I think and then a sudden about face in behavior from there. They basically washed away the daddy issues and all was well and forgotten. You may not have complained about the character, but there where many threads in many places that where many where very P.O.'ed about how the character was being written (and drawn). Seems to fit slut/bad girl behavior to me. Again, when the character was first introduced.

Empahsis on that because I think your getting the then confused with the now and really its two different characters as far as how they are written. To a degree the change isn't really an improvement because now the character is really a Wonder Girl clone. You could swap out the current Supergirl for Wonder Girl and the impact would be marginal on any given story (in the last year).

[Night Swordsman]

Is it ok for me to dislike both the Smallville and Comic versions of Supergirl and wished she stayed dead after CoIE? :) DF? K2?

Why don't we kill both of them off and replace them with a ANGEL! YAH! :D

[diana_fan]

Well lets see, its inferred she slept with Darkseid, Powerboy and few others. Her goal when coming to earth was to kill Superman. Massive daddy issues. All in what in DCU time would be maybe 2-3 months, but probably less. You did read her first appearance in Superman/Batman, and Supergirl 1-6, little more in 12-15 I think and then a sudden about face in behavior from there. They basically washed away the daddy issues and all was well and forgotten. You may not have complained about the character, but there where many threads in many places that where many where very P.O.'ed about how the character was being written (and drawn). Seems to fit slut/bad girl behavior to me. Again, when the character was first introduced.

Empahsis on that because I think your getting the then confused with the now and really its two different characters as far as how they are written. To a degree the change isn't really an improvement because now the character is really a Wonder Girl clone. You could swap out the current Supergirl for Wonder Girl and the impact would be marginal on any given story (in the last year).


Oh, that is RICH! *I'M* confused?! I am the one who is confused?! Are you freakin' kidding me?!

I will GUARANTEE YOU that I've read Supergirl, EVERY single issue (except for the Bedard/Guedes debacle) more times than you could even imagine. I am probably the world's biggest freakin' Kara Zor-El supporter! And *I* am the one who is confused?!

Give me a freakin' break!

NO! It was never implied that she slept with ANYONE! Jesus. Where do you even come up with this crap?!

And I don't give a damn what threads there were. Most of them were filled with misinformed garbage like you're spouting.

Christ almighty.

[Kerny]

Oh, that is RICH! *I'M* confused?! I am the one who is confused?! Are you freakin' kidding me?!

I will GUARANTEE YOU that I've read Supergirl, EVERY single issue (except for the Bedard/Guedes debacle) more times than you could even imagine. I am probably the world's biggest freakin' Kara Zor-El supporter! And *I* am the one who is confused?!

Give me a freakin' break!

NO! It was never implied that she slept with ANYONE! Jesus. Where do you even come up with this crap?!

And I don't give a damn what threads there were. Most of them were filled with misinformed garbage like you're spouting.

Christ almighty.
I know their's a non-ban policy here, but this man needs to go.

[saintsaucey]

Sima down now sima down now.

[Kerny]

Sima down now sima down now.
This DF cat (no pun intended) does need to chill out. doesn't he? Mary FTW in FC

[diana_fan]

This DF cat (no pun intended) does need to chill out. doesn't he? Mary FTW in FC

Kern, you are a ********** ********!!!! :mad:









Don't pay him any matter. He's my stalker. :)

[Kerny]

Kern, you are a ********** ********!!!! :mad:









Don't pay him any matter. He's my stalker. :)
Oh really? I am only here to inform the public of who you really are

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124033&highlight=Diana_Fan

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/402/dfpervya6.jpg

[HartyPotter]

Oh really? I am only here to inform the public of who you really are

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124033&highlight=Diana_Fan

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/402/dfpervya6.jpg

Wow, thank you for informing us.... Kerny, is it? You are a hero.

[diana_fan]

Oh really? I am only here to inform the public of who you really are

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124033&highlight=Diana_Fan

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/402/dfpervya6.jpg

Kern, you are a dead man. It's that simple. I notice you left chat the second you could! :mad:

[a. non]

I don't watch it consistantly, but i catch a few here in there. I saw the episode Justice, and i didn't think Justice League, I thought Teen Titans (Superboy, Cyborg, Speedy, Kid Flash, Aqualad). But seriously, Clark and Kara nearly the same age?

I see the whole series as an Elseworld; not the story of the Superman and his allies, but of a Superman, where that universe works differently than mainstream.

It's all right overall, but i think i remember liking Superboy better.

[kingdom2000]

Kerny what does Diana being gay have to do with anything? I really don't get it. If someone has a problem with homosexuals, this is so not the board for them. I guess one could argue it informs on ones perceptions of a character but I don't think thats the case here. I interpreted events in the new Supergirl's life one way, Diana another that is all.

To swing this discussion back on track, if Gail is doing a commentary, I wouldn't mind hearing how much the new incarnation of Supergirl in the comics played into the TV version and did the changes in the comics get influenced by the TV show. On that I say no, I think fan critiscm resulted in the alignment that is more in tune with the JLU Kara (the influence of the Timm-verse on the DCU is pretty amazing).

If the commentary is Supergirl centric, I wouldn't mind hearing the Gail discussing how TV/movies might influence how she writes versus the show doing the same with comics. Could also compare/contrast how the various Smallville chacters align from and diverge from their comic counterparts. Its seems obvious but the Smallville DVDs essentially ignore the comicbook influence and only give it very light lip service so believe it or not this would be new terroritory.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Gail, what are your thoughts regarding Slater´s Supergirl?

I´ve seen the movie recently and as awful as it may be, I have to say I really enjoyed seeing her fly around in that cape and boots.

If I could edit this movie, I´d slash every part that doesn´t have her in her costume doing cool superthings. :D

Slater Supergirl may be naive beyond belief, but she´s also FUN a lot of the time!
Smallville´s Supergirl is SO serious and everything´s life and death....

I was watching this episode the other day with my nieces and they glued their eyes to the screen when they saw her rip the door off a car.
That is SO COOL!

Smallville Supergirl should be more about having fun doing cool stuff beyond the scope of earth girls and less emo/seriousness.

Chu think?

[Ben Morgan]

I haven't seen an episode in months, but I liked what I saw

[diana_fan]

Kerny what does Diana being gay have to do with anything? I really don't get it. If someone has a problem with homosexuals, this is so not the board for them. I guess one could argue it informs on ones perceptions of a character but I don't think thats the case here. I interpreted events in the new Supergirl's life one way, Diana another that is all.

Oh for the love of god.

These are just goofballs I know from the 'Rama chat. Believe me, it has nothing to do with anything. Ignore it. :)

[PatrickG]

If I could edit this movie, I´d slash every part that doesn´t have her in her costume doing cool superthings. :D


Me? I'd like to edit the first two Superman movies to be closer to the script.

That would mean incorporating footage from SUPERMAN III (the Eiffel tower gag was in the script) and incorporating the alternate ending to the first movie from the Donner cut.

From there, I think everything drags a bit and, well, there never was a good rationale for Lois not remembering his ID so I'd edit that out too. (Even the time travel element, originally applied there, had some plot holes.) So with a round of cuts aimed at the camp and some of the longer sequences, I think a just about perfect 2 hour Superman film would emerge. (Maybe the Lois knowing the ID bit could simply be edited out, making her relationship strictly with Superman.)

[PatrickG]

Slater Supergirl may be naive beyond belief, but she´s also FUN a lot of the time!
Smallville´s Supergirl is SO serious and everything´s life and death....

I was watching this episode the other day with my nieces and they glued their eyes to the screen when they saw her rip the door off a car.
That is SO COOL!

Smallville Supergirl should be more about having fun doing cool stuff beyond the scope of earth girls and less emo/seriousness.

Chu think?

I think she seems to be less deadly serious than everyone else on the show even when the joke is on her.

First of all, she flirts. She doesn't have any ONE gooey eyed soulmate. That's a plus for her.

EDIT: Incidentally, I agree with Mac about how Chloe is who Lana should be and Lana is somebody else.

Second, the playground scene where she's looking for Kal is probably one of about five scenes I'd rank as deliriously funny in the show's whole run.

[Chiroptera]

Just a random little note... If Smallville became THIS.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/XxChiropteraxX/SmallvilleJLA.jpg

THAT I might try watching again.
And yeah, I'm one of those guys that disliked the show because of the LACK of costumes. :P

[PatrickG]

So don't like the word slut? To bad, still fits the early version of the character. If she is a version who has never been to 2nd base, the writers did a piss poor job expressing that with some of the behavior they wrote in her first year or so of existence. If I remember right you and many others where complaining about this too, her characterization being another example of the deep seeded hatred that comicdom really feels for woman but try to hide.

That no longer applies to the character, they retconned all that out (by simply ignoring it). Now the character is more of a mix of the old character with JLU Kara thrown in for balance.

Besides, the world needs more sluts, male and female. Its too prudish nowadays. More power to em real world or otherwise.

The original Silver Age Kara used to daydream about her three boyfriends. By the Bronze Age, she was dating guys she actively loathed. In the end, she had a secret marriage but that didn't stop her from leading guys on.

No version of Supergirl was ever a nun and I think the "sainthood" conferred by her death in Crisis has retconned her into something she never was in the minds of fans.

She was always targeted at horny adolescent males moreso than the average female character at pretty much every phase of her publishing history.

I don't think that makes the character rubbish. I also think her sainthood is overblown. And that her quickly retconned death was pretty un-empowering, considering it was all about sacrificing herself for the patriarchal figure in her life. Kids shouldn't die for their father figures. It's unnatural and far more disturbing to me than any of the kinky subtext or incest hints in Kara's history.

I think the real power to be found in a character like Supergirl doesn't come from eschewing the character's sexuality but simply by contextualizing it while moving on to bigger and more emotionally charges stories.

I don't think she's a role model for little girls like some do. However, I do think she's a model for sexually confident and humanitarian WOMEN, which is pretty much the opposite of a slut when played properly.

The real focus should be on how she interacts with famous characters, what kind of a cast she can support and what crazy adventures she can get into.

Heck, a big part of what I LIKE about the modern relaunch of the character is that they recognized they're doing a Post-Gen 13 teen. I MISS those crazy romance novel plots Superman got into when he was single and I like the idea of tragic romances and such applied to a similar character.

They over-did the dark and angsty bit and commited the mortal sin of making her too selfish. And her confidence is constantly in the crapper because of it.

But I think I see a lot of double standards between how people perceive Power Girl and Kara. And Kara is 18 and Peege is, what? 24? I don't think the difference in attitudes among readers should be so pronounced.

[PatrickG]

Just a random little note... If Smallville became THIS.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/XxChiropteraxX/SmallvilleJLA.jpg

THAT I might try watching again.
And yeah, I'm one of those guys that disliked the show because of the LACK of costumes. :P

Like the actual costumes on the show, the whole thing looks too X-Games to me.

[MacQuarrie]

Oh for the love of god.

These are just goofballs I know from the 'Rama chat. Believe me, it has nothing to do with anything. Ignore it. :)

That would be a lot easier to do if there weren't so many racist and anti-semitic cracks posted next to your name. The one about wondering why the black woman doesn't have eight children and a heroin habit, that was real nice.

[kingdom2000]

<checks left field, wonders why the above comment is sitting out there>

[Michael P]

The original Silver Age Kara used to daydream about her three boyfriends. By the Bronze Age, she was dating guys she actively loathed. In the end, she had a secret marriage but that didn't stop her from leading guys on.

No version of Supergirl was ever a nun and I think the "sainthood" conferred by her death in Crisis has retconned her into something she never was in the minds of fans.

About the only character whose fans have more disturbing complexes is that other dead '80s superheroine, Jean Grey.

Thanks a bunch, fellas. This is why we can't have nice things.

[Chiroptera]

Like the actual costumes on the show, the whole thing looks too X-Games to me.

I quite agree. I also dislike the lack of masks on the heroes that normally would be wearing them. But, for me anyway, it's at least better than seeing Superman running around in blue jeans and a red jacket all the time looking like Phillip Jay Fry and going "Hey look, I'm wearing the -colors- Supes normally wears, that's close enough right!?... Right???"

[PatrickG]

About the only character whose fans have more disturbing complexes is that other dead '80s superheroine, Jean Grey.

Thanks a bunch, fellas. This is why we can't have nice things.

Was that a jab at my assessment, an agreement or both?

[Michael P]

An agreement.

[Magneto_X]

Just a random little note... If Smallville became THIS.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/XxChiropteraxX/SmallvilleJLA.jpg

THAT I might try watching again.
And yeah, I'm one of those guys that disliked the show because of the LACK of costumes. :P

I'd like it but that's Teen Titans not Justice League. Sorry. :D

[MacQuarrie]

<checks left field, wonders why the above comment is sitting out there>

Well, it's all over there at Newsarama.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=5158558&postcount=278

Dianafan68 (23:39:10): Hux, I wouldn't call her evil for being black. I might question why she doesn't already have 8 kids and a heroin habit, though

And then there's this one: http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=5174994&postcount=302

Dianafan68 (10:52:10 PM): Shut it, Jew.
Really? Wow.

[Corrina]

Well, I think the mods have a hard enough time moderating YABS, without worrying about what you lot are doing out of the house.....

However, I would expect those newsarama comments or any like them won't be made here, by anyone.

And that photo...eww.....

And no one can convince me that Tom Welling can act.

[kingdom2000]

Well, it's all over there at Newsarama.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=5158558&postcount=278
And then there's this one: http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=5174994&postcount=302
Really? Wow.

Ok but what does that have to do with the current discussion? Nada, thus the out of left field comment.

[MacQuarrie]

Ok but what does that have to do with the current discussion? Nada, thus the out of left field comment.

Did you miss the several posts back and forth between Diana Fan and his "stalker"? That exchange took place in this thread, right? Diana Fan's comment to "just ignore them" was in this thread, right? That's what I was replying to.

I'm kind of in the habit of replying to comments in the thread where they appear, even if they're off-topic. I think we all are.

[HartyPotter]

Did you miss the several posts back and forth between Diana Fan and his "stalker"? That exchange took place in this thread, right? Diana Fan's comment to "just ignore them" was in this thread, right? That's what I was replying to.

I'm kind of in the habit of replying to comments in the thread where they appear, even if they're off-topic. I think we all are.

I think you should try to break that habit.

[Paul McEnery]

Like the actual costumes on the show, the whole thing looks too X-Games to me.

That's where I hope the show finishes. Lex and his Injustice League against "Justice" -- with Clark finally taking the costume.

[MacQuarrie]

I think you should try to break that habit.

Well, that would just be silly. It wouldn't make any sense to reply in a different thread, or to start a new thread for a single reply. That would be dumb. It's much better to just reply in the thread where the comment appears, even if it's off-topic.. just like you did here, and like I'm doing now. That's called conversation.

(Insert mildly snarky smiley thing here)

[beetlebum]

OK, so I self-censored here, since my initial response was profanity-laced and very angry.

But can you explain how a girl who is not only a VIRGIN, but has never been to second base even, is a slut? Or is slutty?

Because I'm really tired of people referring to Kara as a slut. Actually, I'm pretty tired of people referring to anyone as a slut, for the most part. I've known a few women who referred to themselves as sluts, and who actually lived up to the title.

Anyways, it's a pet peeve.

I agree with this. I haven't read enough Supergirl to make any judgments of value, but I'm sick of the terms "slut" and "whore". They're gender ascribed pejoratives that are used to control people and prop up a double standard which has prevented women from gaining true equality. Maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with the terms if men got called "easy" too. The thing is though, they don't.

Directive, descriptive and even assertive locutionary statements emanating from a speaker's mouth and their illocutionary intent may not have been intentionally harmful, but often times the perlocutionary effect ends up producing unintentional consequences.

Although I am an adherent, and at the moment I am abstinent, the words just bother me.

And what's with the stalking? It's one thing to disagree with someone, but to follow someone around the internet to start fights with them is low. And not to mention creepy. No wonder why I don't frequent the 'Rama

[PatrickG]

We need to start a movement to refer to male characters in the pejorative, applying views about women's sexuality to men to stage a point.

I can see it now...

Me: Hal Jordan is a filthy whore.

Newsarama Poster: Hell yeah! He bangs the ladies left and right.

Me: No. He's disgusting. He probably has herpes and the clap. He's an awful role model, he has a small penis and his existence degrades men. He's a whore. A piece of rotten meat. Male sexuality is exploitive!

[beetlebum]

We need to start a movement to refer to male characters in the pejorative, applying views about women's sexuality to men to stage a point.

I can see it now...

Me: Hal Jordan is a filthy whore.

Newsarama Poster: Hell yeah! He bangs the ladies left and right.

Me: No. He's disgusting. He probably has herpes and the clap. He's an awful role model, he has a small penis and his existence degrades men. He's a whore. A piece of rotten meat. Male sexuality is exploitive!

Thank you for agreeing with my point. :) Sadly, as much as I would like to see this, if not just to give people a temporary taste of their own medicine, it won't take off. :(

I just wish we would give all people, regardless of gender, the rights they are entitled to.

[Superbeast]

The show is best watched with the sound turned off. Every time they do something potentially interesting, they shoot themselves in the foot. Lois and Clark had a lowe budget and lamer villains but I found it a lot more entertaining.

[diana_fan]

I agree with this. I haven't read enough Supergirl to make any judgments of value, but I'm sick of the terms "slut" and "whore". They're gender ascribed pejoratives that are used to control people and prop up a double standard which has prevented women from gaining true equality. Maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with the terms if men got called "easy" too. The thing is though, they don't.

Exactly. I am totally sick of it.

[MacQuarrie]

Exactly. I am totally sick of it.

Said the racist anti-semite.

[HartyPotter]

Said the racist anti-semite.

In case you didn't know, DianaFan is a black jew.

[Chiroptera]

Said the racist anti-semite.

You've made your point Mac, can we move on now and continue the more enjoyable part of this thread instead of harping on the negatives, please?

[MacQuarrie]

In case you didn't know, DianaFan is a black jew.
Irrelevant. That doesn't excuse the comments made. But I've been asked to drop it, so it's dropped.

[K-DoG7p7]

To do something that hasent been done in a while

I like Smallville

Sure i was pissed off that Lana showed up AGAIN this season.. and that Black Canary was more like... just blææ
how hard is it to get.. long blong Wig.. short black hair.. NOT! the other way around.. also Dinah Drake Lance had the mask not Dinah Laurel Lance

Also I wish Cyborg had exposed Metalic parts..
Also less bright colors on Ollie.. and he HATES Compound Bows in the comics..
Also Supergirl is pointless and lame.. if then needes a charactr that was Clark's strength, chick and they cant use Diana.. how about Power Girl!

[beetlebum]

You've made your point Mac, can we move on now and continue the more enjoyable part of this thread instead of harping on the negatives, please?

I am beetlebum, and I second this emotion.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I am beetlebum, and I second this emotion.

But do you second the motion?

[beetlebum]

But do you second the motion?

No, I'm too kewl for that. :p ;)

[beetlebum]

To do something that hasent been done in a while

I like Smallville

Sure i was pissed off that Lana showed up AGAIN this season.. and that Black Canary was more like... just blææ
how hard is it to get.. long blong Wig.. short black hair.. NOT! the other way around.. also Dinah Drake Lance had the mask not Dinah Laurel Lance

Also I wish Cyborg had exposed Metalic parts..
Also less bright colors on Ollie.. and he HATES Compound Bows in the comics..
Also Supergirl is pointless and lame.. if then needes a charactr that was Clark's strength, chick and they cant use Diana.. how about Power Girl!

I'd love to see the actress who meets the proper physical requirements.....

Oh, the jokes to be made. :evilsmile:

[Corrina]

I am beetlebum, and I second this emotion.

It would also be good if the people who crashed the thread would not do so again. That'd be very nice.

[Spiffy]

Okay, I finally realized that I can encapsulate most of my reactions to Smallville into a really small package.

"Somebody saaaaaaaave meeeeeeee..."

C'mon. Someone HAD to make the joke. And its kinda true. On some level you feel like you just HAVE to watch sometimes, because its DC comics and you LOVE DC comics, but right in the middle of all of the stupid teen soap opera crap you often feel like you wish somebody had pulled you away from the TV set a bit sooner.

[K-DoG7p7]

its kinda sad to think that its all the stupid teen soap opera crap that keeps this show on the air..

The only positive thing about this show since season 3 is actually...


Green Arrow... yeah ollie is a Batman standinn on this show.. but its still kinda like the comics..
Ollie did fund the JLA when the JLA first apperad.. and he did come to smallville as a kid.. so its kinda right..

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I'd love to see the actress who meets the proper physical requirements.....

Oh, the jokes to be made. :evilsmile:

Aw, you don´t have to be mega-endowed to pull a decent PeeGee... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUiNFzzF-ZI) :p

[Chiasm]

Smallville has been an ever increasing experiment on the reimagining of Clark Kent as the most selfish bastard on television. All he does is whine and bitch about other people not being truthful with him while he constantly lies to them. Even when he gives a half hearted apology to Lana a few episodes ago you could tell he was excusing himself at the same time because of the red kryptonite.

I didn't watch any Smallville at all til around the 5th season. Then one day I'm in Walmart and they have the first four seasons on the discount rack for $15.00 each so I grab them for the heck of it and start watching. I loved season I, even when it was corny, because it didn't pretend to be anything but Dawson's Creek with superpowers. I'm not normally a fan of Dawson's type shows but it worked here.

But as time went on the writers really lost control with Clark and I began to like him less and less. I actually root for Lex and the bad guys now, even though its futile, because at least they don't pretend to be good guys.

To be honest, the only reason I've even kept watching the show these last two years is because its on before Supernatural which is the best show on TV IMO. But even that hasn't been enough lately as I've yet to watch the last two episodes.

As to Supergirl - meh with a capital M. The actress playing her is horribly miscast though not as bad as Lois. And her backstory was sadly predictable. And her current story has been another excercise in showing how superior Clark thinks he is than everyone.

Echoing what others have said - Green Arrow is the only good thing to happen to this show in a long time.

[ShaunN]

I have not watched "Smallville" in a while, but I have to agree with a lot of Chiasm's comments here. I became increasingly frustrated over the fact that Clark is a pathological liar. He lies to practically everyone. He may have a good reason to do so, but you think he could be less hypocritical about it when others are dishonest/untrustworthy towards him. His continuing justifications for his lying to Lana finally caused me to stop watching the series (which I found annoying at the best of times, but which I watched out of DC-loyalty). To me, the only really fun thing about the show is seeing the Vancouver locations. I lived in Vancouver for three years on the University of BC campus, where a lot of the filming takes place. In fact, the first time that James Marsters' Brainiac appears, his class is in the building I was working in! Too bad the show itself wasn't better.

[beetlebum]

Well, I think lying is a part of every super heroes life. And that creates great drama, because they're internally conflicted. Society as a whole frowns upon lying, and that is mainly due to the prominence of the Abrahamic religions and their normative framework.

They're times of course, when you'll have to lie. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Rahab the harlot lying to protect the Israeli spies, and Hutus lying to protect Tutsis for example.

Smallville does a good job with that internal conflict. The problem is though is I've never been much for whining, esp. every single episode.

And plus, some of the lies have been just plain absurd.

So, what it breaks down to is:

Internal conflict= good.

Wankers who don't shut their gobs and lame writing= bad.

Syllogisms are fun! Grin! :D =D

[ShaunN]

Dear Beetlebum,

Yes, I can see your point and I agree. What I found unbelievable about Clark, however, is that he kept lying to Lana, the woman he loved, long after other people (Chloe and Pete, for example) had found out about him and not abandoned him. And, yes, I understand that Lana's parents were killed during the meteor shower and that this created Clark's fear she would blame him for that. But, when it became apparent that his relationship with Lana was suffering irreparable harm because he was constantly lying, he should have had the courage to stop making lame excuses and just tell her!

I don't know - maybe I just don't have the tolerance for soap opera antics. '';-)

Take care,

Shaun

[beetlebum]

Dear Beetlebum,

Yes, I can see your point and I agree. What I found unbelievable about Clark, however, is that he kept lying to Lana, the woman he loved, long after other people (Chloe and Pete, for example) had found out about him and not abandoned him. And, yes, I understand that Lana's parents were killed during the meteor shower and that this created Clark's fear she would blame him for that. But, when it became apparent that his relationship with Lana was suffering irreparable harm because he was constantly lying, he should have had the courage to stop making lame excuses and just tell her!

I don't know - maybe I just don't have the tolerance for soap opera antics. '';-)

Take care,

Shaun

That's not an unreasonable assumption to make. And I do agree he should have told her. But see, if he did, the writers would have no story lines nor be able to write such "great drama". And he would not end up with Lois. =D ;)

[mgs]

I don't watch that much tv anyways, and it was usually on at a time when I was not near a tv but a young Indian girl I used to work with, just out of Barnard College (sister school to Columbia), loved the show and watched it all the time with her friends. I caught the occasional show and thought it was Creek-ish, but okay. :)

[beetlebum]

Aw, you don´t have to be mega-endowed to pull a decent PeeGee... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUiNFzzF-ZI)

But if she doesn't have big humps, the fans will complain and we'll have nothing to make fun of! :( ;}

Oh, and speaking of; :

Don't click on the link :evilsmile: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91sqAs-_-g)

WHAT?! I SAID NOT TO CLICK ON THE LINK?!!! :evilangry: =D

[stealthwise]

Okay, I finally realized that I can encapsulate most of my reactions to Smallville into a really small package.

"Somebody saaaaaaaave meeeeeeee..."

C'mon. Someone HAD to make the joke. And its kinda true. On some level you feel like you just HAVE to watch sometimes, because its DC comics and you LOVE DC comics, but right in the middle of all of the stupid teen soap opera crap you often feel like you wish somebody had pulled you away from the TV set a bit sooner.

And all these years I thought it was "somebody shave me."

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Smallville was interesting when it first started, despite the obvious teen-drama angle and the formulaic villains. The first few seasons were done fairly well. Unfortunately, the Clark/Lana relationship began to take center stage and became increasingly annoying. It also highlighted the overall inherent problem with the show:

A tug of war. They're so concerned with keeping Clark out of the costume that every time the show has a little bit of progression, they insert a bit of regression. Clark continously holds back, the stories continuously hold back. You can see where they want to go, yet they never quite make it there.

Green Arrow and the Justice League were awesome additions to the show. Now if Clark would stop being a wuss, embrace his destiny, and they do a spin-off show, things will get awesome.

[Spiffy]

And all these years I thought it was "somebody shave me."
Hey, that kind of punning requires making another thread as a parody. So stop it! Now! :D :D Or I'll have to talk about how before I realized it was "Somebody Save Me" I thought it was "Somebody Save Meat". I thought that was the perfect expression of emo angst too.

[Tyr]

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/XxChiropteraxX/SmallvilleJLA.jpg


You know I use to tell people that Supermans costume wasn't gay, or made Superman gay, with this picture I now stand corrected. :o

[The Xenos]

Ick. Why would someone post those horrible watered down characters as the JLA? Why? Do Smallville fans really think of those characters as THE characters?

Dammit. I just started watching Veronica Mars. How does that good show barely make 3 seasons and somehow Smallville still continues on the air? Bah.

[beetlebum]

Ick. Why would someone post those horrible watered down characters as the JLA? Why? Do Smallville fans really think of those characters as THE characters?

Dammit. I just started watching Veronica Mars. How does that good show barely make 3 seasons and somehow Smallville still continues on the air? Bah.

Sigh. Now you're gonna make me cry. I miss it too. =(. In such a short time, it became an integral part of my life, and I formed an emotional attachment to it. Now all I've got is Grey's Anatomy, and if you want to know why I whine about it so much, it's because a part of me reeeeeeeeaaaalllllllllllllyyyyyy misses Veronica.

And I'll take with me the memories, to bring my sunshine after the rain.....

*sniff*