Is UXM really selling that poorly?

[Sonicjuce]

Everyone around here keeps talking about how poorly UXM is selling and this it will likily be cancelled.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/Jan08sales.html

Well it is still in the top 50. I think any book in the top 50 is a keeper in Marvel's eyes. I just don't see them doing anything of the sort.

Kirkman does not seem to be doing all that bad at drawing people in....

[chronicboredom]

And vol 17 is number one for Graphic Novels, seems people are getting the TPB instead of following the actual comic monthly.

[Rufusade]

Everyone around here keeps talking about how poorly UXM is selling and this it will likily be cancelled.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/Jan08sales.html

Well it is still in the top 50. I think any book in the top 50 is a keeper in Marvel's eyes. I just don't see them doing anything of the sort.

Kirkman does not seem to be doing all that bad at drawing people in....

I hope not. I also think it is going to have to replace the original x-men sooner or later because so many people are new to the x-men comics but find that by the time they start reading it has become all to complicated and they cant make sense of it. Yet ultimate X-men is fresh and you can still make sense out of it. The original X-men universe was started with no one thinking it would lead up to something like "House of M" or "Messiah Complex", modern continuations of a series started in the 60's. After all this time with mutants seemingly on the verge of replacing humanity going all the way to becoming endangered but either way never showing signs of tilting in Prof X's favour you would think he would call it quits. Among other reasons the original universe should be replaced other than running way to long are:

Two of the greatest villains on the verge of becoming history: Apocalypse's potential being exhausted and Mister Sinister dieing. What is to stop Magneto from becoming the number one threat now? In my opinion Magneto has to stop being a real threat after a while to make room for true dangers like Apocalypse and Onslaught. However in the ultimate universe these villains are given fresh starts and have plenty of opportunity.

Three time travellers from three different futures, Kitty Pryde, Bishop and Cable two of these futures ruled by Sentinels and one by Apocalypse yet he also ruled the planet in "Age of Apocalypse". Way to get confused. Yet in Ultimate X-men Cable and Bishop are from the same future and Kitty Pryde is from the present.

I could list other reasons but I do not have the time. My point is I wouldn’t mind if the original universe was cancelled, if you want to keep story lines like "Civil war", "House of M" or "Messiah Complex" just simplify them slightly, alter them so they are set in the ultimate universe and then put them in while the ultimate universe is still young so people don't have to be read their brains out to understand the background.

[Sonicjuce]

Blah Blah Blah

Yea I didn't know what part of your post to quote but I just wanted to make it clear I was commenting on yours...

Cancel 616? Are you crazy? Never going to happen! The Ultimate universe will go long before that ever happens.

I would also disagree that the Ultimate Universe isn't continuity heavy. It very much has gotten that way, and that will only grow.

[Omega Alpha]

Yes, it is selling poorly. 50,000 (the December numbers) are the lowest a title with X-men on it (and not some kids, actual X-men) have ever sold, and more than 20,000 copies lower than what BKV was selling when he left.

[Vapour Trail]

The Magician arc... why was that even allowed?

[Diablito]

Nowadays, theres not much point for Ultimate X-Men. I wouldn't mind if it gets cancelled.

[Rufusade]

Yea I didn't know what part of your post to quote but I just wanted to make it clear I was commenting on yours...

Cancel 616? Are you crazy? Never going to happen! The Ultimate universe will go long before that ever happens.

I would also disagree that the Ultimate Universe isn't continuity heavy. It very much has gotten that way, and that will only grow.

I don't mind continuity but I do not see the logic behind continuing a series that has lasted since the 60's into the 21st century. if ultimate x-men is cancelled I think we should wait until 2020 or 2010 then replace it for new readers with another re-imagining. (Or pull a Doctor Who thing and sort of make some catastrophe happen and leave the main characters in a completely different world to start from scratch with elements from the earlier days reappearing 1 by 1.)

[Rufusade]

Yes, it is selling poorly. 50,000 (the December numbers) are the lowest a title with X-men on it (and not some kids, actual X-men) have ever sold, and more than 20,000 copies lower than what BKV was selling when he left.

Like he said:

And vol 17 is number one for Graphic Novels, seems people are getting the TPB instead of following the actual comic monthly.

[Jackob]

ya no chance of 616 geting canceled, continuity is not a bad thing, and even if they did reboot it it would still be the same thing just slightly differnt. and people not geting the big events and status qous? that is where people jump in. i got into it after house of m and then started looking into the old stuff. it is not that hard.

[ClintBarton]

It Most Likely Going To Rise High When The New Event For The Ultimate Verse Happens

[Omega Alpha]

Like he said:

And like I said, sales have never been lower. Even with TPBs (which would sell a lot before too), this is the lowest a title with X-men in it has ever sold, and way behind what BKV was selling. If a book losing more 1/3 of it's audience in less than two years doesn't indicate bad sales and disapproval of the fans, nothing does.

[Angelus II]

I heard that it was doing poorly, but it still the #1 top Ultimate Marvel book out there.

[IAMFuzzy]

I heard that it was doing poorly, but it still the #1 top Ultimate Marvel book out there.
No, USM is.

I don't consider Ultimates an ongoing series since it has breaks between each set. It's more of an ongoing mini IMO.

[Sonicjuce]

And like I said, sales have never been lower. Even with TPBs (which would sell a lot before too), this is the lowest a title with X-men in it has ever sold, and way behind what BKV was selling. If a book losing more 1/3 of it's audience in less than two years doesn't indicate bad sales and disapproval of the fans, nothing does.

You may be right on dropping sales. The only thing is that Marvel has a ton of on-goings that sell worse. Why would they end UXM when they have titles doing worse? Not going to happen...

[Rufusade]

It Most Likely Going To Rise High When The New Event For The Ultimate Verse Happens

You mean "Ultimatum"?

[ClintBarton]

You mean "Ultimatum"?

Yeah That One
To Be Honest I Had No Idea How To Spell It

[MattXG]

And vol 17 is number one for Graphic Novels, seems people are getting the TPB instead of following the actual comic monthly.

Please, don't let fact like these stop people like Beast whose heard yellow lighted rumors from saying there is no possible way UXM won't be cancelled.

Beast. LOL.

[Rufusade]

Please, don't let fact like these stop people like Beast whose heard yellow lighted rumors from saying there is no possible way UXM won't be cancelled.

Beast. LOL.

No offense but I cannot make heads or tails of what you are trying to say.

[flapjaxx]

I also think it is going to have to replace the original x-men sooner or later because so many people are new to the x-men comics but find that by the time they start reading it has become all to complicated and they cant make sense of it. Yet ultimate X-men is fresh and you can still make sense out of it.

The primary point of the Ultimate line was to draw in new readers. They failed pretty miserably at this, by all accounts. The Ultimate line has like a 95% overlap with the same readership of the regular Marvel 616 titles. I'm not saying NO new readers came in and stayed in, but we all know that this is the case. It's not like the Ultimate line is so much more "mainstream" or "acceptable" in society at large vs. the regular Marvel title. There isn't any market that the Ultimate line reaches that the regular titles don't reach. All the Marvel titles are in the same places--comic shops and book stores--side by side on the same shelf. The Ultimate line was supposed to work its way onto newstands more, which it did... for a while.

New potential X-Men readers have been drawn in by Josh Whedon in recent years, but that's another discussion. And that probably does have something to do with Astonishing X-Men having low issue #s on the cover. But Ultimate X-Men isn't really "fresh" anymore, not when there are THIS many unresolved plotlines and the issue-count is almost at 100...

There's also another HUGE flaw in this "less continuity = more readers" argument. Think about when Marvel and the comics industry in general were at their peak circulation. Yes, there was X-Men Vol. 2 #1 and adjectiveless Spider-Men #1... but think of how much continuity those titles had. Chris Claremont built a readership of over 500,000 regular monthly readers on a title that was going through its #200s issues with HEAVY continuity and a ton of plotlines, and then McFarlane topped that for a time in the early Amazing Spider-Man #300s.

And about the insinuation about it being the second-best-selling Ultimate title, it'd actually be #3 behind USM and the Ultimates (when that comes out, at least).

I don't think Marvel's going to cancel it, though...

[MattXG]

No offense but I cannot make heads or tails of what you are trying to say.

There is a poster here.

His name is Beast.

He believes whole-heartedly that UXM is dead after issue #100.

All because a yellow lighted rumor here at CBR said so.

He tosses out all facts that would point to the contrary as "wishful thinking". lol

[DeathSentence]

I buy U x men when i think the story will be god. I bought most of the sentinal arc but i missed issue 89 but i am back for apocalypse. If they had to cancel one of the u books, i would go with ff or this one.

[Brian M.]

There is a poster here.

His name is Beast.

He believes whole-heartedly that UXM is dead after issue #100.

All because a yellow lighted rumor here at CBR said so.

He tosses out all facts that would point to the contrary as "wishful thinking". lol

Actually there is no proof one way or another right now that the books won't be cancelled. They maybe cancelled and relaunched, they maybe cancelled, or they continue on and just deal w/ the ramifications. But you have no proof and Beast has no proof.

[Jake V]

Ultimate X-Men will be cancelled around when Ultimatum hits.

It won't have anything to do with sales though.

[Neptunicus]

I've really disliked Kirkman's run on U-Xmen and for me it's a bit of an atrocity b/c the I really used to enjoy the title. The strange thing is I really like Invincible and The Walking Dead. At any rate (that horse has been sufficiently flogged for me) here are some sales figures....Kirkman's run started on 66.

2-Feb #15 - 94,713
3-Feb #29 - 84,789
4-Feb #42 - 97,299
5-Feb #56 - 83,720
=====
6-Feb #67 - 72,700
6-Mar #68 - 72,765
6-Apr #69 - 73,188
6-May #70 - 72,235
6-Jun #71 - 71,314
6-Jul #72 - 70,593
6-Aug #73 - 70,153
6-Sep #74 - 68,874
6-Oct #75 - 73,837
6-Nov #76 - 69,054
6-Dec #77 - 67,338
7-Jan #78 - 66,409
7-Feb #79 - 64,363
7-Mar #80 - 63,000
7-Apr #81 - 62,926
7-May #82 - 62,063
7-Jun #83 - 59,677
7-Jul #84 - 59,929
7-Aug #85 - 57,660
7-Sep #86 - 55,346
7-Oct #87 - 63,028
7-Dec #88 - 51,633
8-Jan #90 - 53,549

[Rufusade]

Ultimate X-Men will be cancelled around when Ultimatum hits.

It won't have anything to do with sales though.

Did'nt they say that Ultimatum is sort of creating a second chapter to ultimate FF and UXM, I think it is possible it will be cancelled and relaunched just where it left of after it's cancellation only with a new title, "Ultimate X-men chapter 2" or something, which will last for another 100 issues before they pull the same stunt again, and you know what I think comes next... "Civil War" and "House of M" retelling only slightly ultered to fit into the continuity of the ultimate universe, simple.

Saying that UXM (And UFF) will be cancelled completely to make room for the slightly more popular "Ultimates" and USM is just wishfull thinking. (Unless you do not want UXM or UFF to be cancelled of couse)

[Hathorne]

50,000 may be the worst selling X-men book with core x-men characters. The Ultiamte line may not be drawing in new readers, failing at it's purpose (have you ever noticed how the "purpose" of the Ultimate universe varies from poster to poster, usually to suit whatever point they want to make?).

But you know what? It won't be canceled because of sales. Thats terrible business. 50,000 comics is still pretty decent in the current market; more than decent when coupled with those trade sales. It does not matter what purpose you BELIEVE the point of the book was; there is only one purpose that matters; does the book make money?

Yes.

Are there a ton of titles that make less money that are not being canceled? Yes.

Is there a crossover coming that is basically guaranteed, with Loeb, to raise sales? Yes.

That is all you need to know, and that is all that is important. You realise that there will always be A lowest selling X-men book, right? Once Ultimate X-men is gone; there will be a new lowest selling X-men book. Oh no! Will that one get canceled too?

[Animalia]

:( Ultimate X-Men isn't selling because every issue that comes out gets terrible reviews. I hate to say it, but Ultimate X-Men is a lame series with poorly put together plots and boring dialogue. There are so many X-Series out right now, it's hard to keep track....if Ultimate X-Men gets cancelled. I woulden't notice....

[Neptunicus]

That is all you need to know, and that is all that is important. You realise that there will always be A lowest selling X-men book, right? Once Ultimate X-men is gone; there will be a new lowest selling X-men book. Oh no! Will that one get canceled too?

Yeah but the Ultimate X-men "brand" in this instance isn't living up to it's potential. If you have a business and - based on past performance and similar businesses in similar locations - it is underperforming then you need to fix it. That's why it will likely get a reboot. Ultimate X-men can make much more money than it currently is for Marvel.

[Prime24]

Nothing is wrong with ultimate x-men or the ultimate universe for that matter other than giving the imprint some attention. besides bendis and ultimate spidey, the other books have mediocre teams with all due respect to the writers and artists.the 616 universe was ailing and quesada and co fixed it. they restructured the avengers, with messiah complex over the x-books are popular again, the fantastic four now have millar and hitch, hulk is red, has a son etc,steve rogers is dead and has been replaced, spidey was unmasked and then the whole one more day fiasco,there's the impending skrull invasion and civil war changed the entire landscape. so overall there's a lot of buzz in the 616 universe. that's what the ultimate universe needs along with high profile creative teams. I think they are on the right path with the ultimates 3, origins and ultimatum storylines so sales should pick up again.ultimate x-men and fantastic 4 bks need consistent good artists too.

[MattXG]

Nothing is wrong with ultimate x-men or the ultimate universe for that matter other than giving the imprint some attention. besides bendis and ultimate spidey, the other books have mediocre teams with all due respect to the writers and artists.the 616 universe was ailing and quesada and co fixed it. they restructured the avengers, with messiah complex over the x-books are popular again, the fantastic four now have millar and hitch, hulk is red, has a son etc,steve rogers is dead and has been replaced, spidey was unmasked and then the whole one more day fiasco,there's the impending skrull invasion and civil war changed the entire landscape. so overall there's a lot of buzz in the 616 universe. that's what the ultimate universe needs along with high profile creative teams. I think they are on the right path with the ultimates 3, origins and ultimatum storylines so sales should pick up again.ultimate x-men and fantastic 4 bks need consistent good artists too.
So true.

Ultimate's been coasting for nearly a decade on just self-contained stories. 616 has 3 MAJOR major events while Ultimate's only had Galactus and Ultimate Power. Neither of which I'd call an "event". Definitely not in the same light as House, Civil War, or Secret Invasion.

With Ultimatum its looking like the Ultimate line is finally getting its own "event".

Can't wait. :D

[Joosteh]

I'm not sure, I just know I will keep on buying em till they run out :P

[Slartibartfast]

I've read a lot of books recently, went back to do all of Y:Last Man and 100 Bullets from the start and then went back to compare Uncanny X with Ultimate X.

Gotta say, Kirkman aside the difference between the books is the big events.... I get the feeling that Ult X is going be judged worthy or unworthy AFTER Ultimatum.... there's no point making a decision about a book like this before you've even tested the water.

To be honest, it took the ultimate line to get me back into Marvel comics after quite a long exodus. The main attraction was the lack of aliens, starjammers, other dimensions (although UFF is testing my patience on that one) and "shining light goodie vs. evil darkly dressed baddie" style stories.

I think the potential of the Ult. line was obvious but they've gone and turned it into 616 mk2. Occasionally they came out with something new (the new Sinister is great.... Thor in Ultimates 1&2 also gets a big thumbs up) but I just wish they'd take a chance and take it down a new direction that veers away from the 616 track and lets it find it's own continuity.

Hopefully, that's what Ultimatum is going to do.

End of Rant...... apologies

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

I've really disliked Kirkman's run on U-Xmen and for me it's a bit of an atrocity b/c the I really used to enjoy the title. The strange thing is I really like Invincible and The Walking Dead. At any rate (that horse has been sufficiently flogged for me) here are some sales figures....Kirkman's run started on 66.

2-Feb #15 - 94,713
3-Feb #29 - 84,789
4-Feb #42 - 97,299
5-Feb #56 - 83,720
=====
6-Feb #67 - 72,700
6-Mar #68 - 72,765
6-Apr #69 - 73,188
6-May #70 - 72,235
6-Jun #71 - 71,314
6-Jul #72 - 70,593
6-Aug #73 - 70,153
6-Sep #74 - 68,874
6-Oct #75 - 73,837
6-Nov #76 - 69,054
6-Dec #77 - 67,338
7-Jan #78 - 66,409
7-Feb #79 - 64,363
7-Mar #80 - 63,000
7-Apr #81 - 62,926
7-May #82 - 62,063
7-Jun #83 - 59,677
7-Jul #84 - 59,929
7-Aug #85 - 57,660
7-Sep #86 - 55,346
7-Oct #87 - 63,028
7-Dec #88 - 51,633
8-Jan #90 - 53,549

Agreed. I LOVE Walking Dead & Invincible, but he is far and away the worst writer in the Ultimate X-Men series thus far. There have been a lot of impressive names on that title, and IMO, Brian K. Vaughan (of Runaways fame) did the best job. I really liked how he tried to bring back new version of heroes and villains who just didn't quite make it as a 616 character, and left the rest alone.

I own all the HC TPBs of UXM and recently reread the series and the quality drop from Millar/Bendis/Vaughan to Kirkman is easily noticeable. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm reading a less funny Invincible universe storyline with some of Kirkman's stories. It doesn't help that the art was better in the first books too, but I hope they ditch Kirkman for someone else soon, or else I may end my subscription.

[Neptunicus]

Agreed. I LOVE Walking Dead & Invincible, but he is far and away the worst writer in the Ultimate X-Men series thus far. There have been a lot of impressive names on that title, and IMO, Brian K. Vaughan (of Runaways fame) did the best job. I really liked how he tried to bring back new version of heroes and villains who just didn't quite make it as a 616 character, and left the rest alone.

I own all the HC TPBs of UXM and recently reread the series and the quality drop from Millar/Bendis/Vaughan to Kirkman is easily noticeable. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm reading a less funny Invincible universe storyline with some of Kirkman's stories. It doesn't help that the art was better in the first books too, but I hope they ditch Kirkman for someone else soon, or else I may end my subscription.

I've actually spent a lot of time trying to figure out why Kirkman can write so well on Invincible and The Walking Dead and utterly blow on UXM and this is the best I can come up with: When Icecube (he still goes by that name?) is in a acting role where he plays a gangersterish type he is actually pretty convincing but when he does anything else it is pretty ridiculous. Kirkman at this point can only write (or at least write well) things he has created and can wrap his head around - otherwise he is just sort of fumbling around trying to shoehorn some strange idea of what he percieves UXM should be (616 90's X-men) into the UXM comic.