MERGE: Which Marvel Titles Are Most Likely To Be Canceled Next?

[spaz]

Just so surprised to see the launch of so many titles and only one 'Failure' to date. Any other word of Cancellations?

[StoneGold]

Cable and Deadpool, maybe kinda sorta. No official cancellation order has come down, except that the new Cable book is supposedly going to be replacing it. That said, there's nothing saying there won't be a new Deadpool book. And there hasn't been a last issue number handed down, as far as I know. And the ancilliary Spider-Man books, but I don't think that counts.

But yes, Marvel has done a much better job the last year or two in terms of figuring out what kind of books are more likely to sell, and then properly marketing them. Ant-Man really didn't have much more than a snowball's chance you know where, just because it was Ant-Man. Take away everything else from the book, you still have Ant-Man on the cover, and that's tough to overcome. It could be Millar and Hitch on Ant-Man and still have trouble selling.

[Beast]

Adjectiveless X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Messiah Complex. Rumors say Uncanny 2x a Month.
Ultimate X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Ultimatum.

Spectacular Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.

Cable & Deadpool - Cancelled. Likely with Issue #50. Making way for Cable Solo.
Exiles - Cancelled with #100. Rebooting with New Exiles #1.
New Excalibur - Cancelled with #24. Rebooting with Paul Cornell as writer.

There's also rumors that New X-Men is likewise on the chopping block.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Adjectiveless X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Messiah Complex. Rumors say Uncanny 2x a Month.
Ultimate X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Ultimatum.

Spectacular Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.

Cable & Deadpool - Cancelled. Likely with Issue #50. Making way for Cable Solo.
Exiles - Cancelled with #100. Rebooting with New Exiles #1.
New Excalibur - Cancelled with #24. Rebooting with Paul Cornell as writer.

There's also rumors that New X-Men is likewise on the chopping block.

Marvel could trim a few dozen extraneous x-books and spider-man pablum.

[Beast]

Marvel could trim a few dozen extraneous x-books and spider-man pablum.
Noone is forcing you to buy it. And there's no 'Few Dozen' to cut. :p

[StoneGold]

I don't know if you can really call a book a failure if it is just being rebooted, though. Creative marketing. I mean, the Spider-Man thing would appear to be genius, at least before it actually happens. People don't buy Spectacular because all the real continuity that matters happens in Amazing. Well now it is all Amazing!

That's less "they aren't selling," more "we figured out a way to make them sell more."

[ivesaidway2much]

Adjectiveless X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Messiah Complex. Rumors say Uncanny 2x a Month.
Ultimate X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Ultimatum.

Spectacular Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.

Cable & Deadpool - Cancelled. Likely with Issue #50. Making way for Cable Solo.
Exiles - Cancelled with #100. Rebooting with New Exiles #1.
New Excalibur - Cancelled with #24. Rebooting with Paul Cornell as writer.

There's also rumors that New X-Men is likewise on the chopping block.Is Claremont leaving Exiles?

[Beast]

Is Claremont leaving Exiles?
Nope. Tom Grummet is the new permanent penciler also.

[DeeSnider]

New Universe hasn't seen a new issue or any hint of a new solicitation in months. They say it's "on hiatus" but my guess is that's a stealth cancellation and we'll just never see another issue.

[Harlock]

Adjectiveless X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Messiah Complex. Rumors say Uncanny 2x a Month.
Ultimate X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Ultimatum.

Spectacular Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.

Cable & Deadpool - Cancelled. Likely with Issue #50. Making way for Cable Solo.
Exiles - Cancelled with #100. Rebooting with New Exiles #1.
New Excalibur - Cancelled with #24. Rebooting with Paul Cornell as writer.

There's also rumors that New X-Men is likewise on the chopping block.

I'd hate to lose New X-Men. I don't think canceling X-Men makes much sense at all. In the past year it has only slipped below the top 25 one time and that was to 26. Add to that that DC's 52 is consistently in the top 25 with multiple issues and when that gimmick ends... Surely X-Men is a safe title.

[protege]

Apparently heroes for Hire is History..

[StoneGold]

I'd hate to lose New X-Men. I don't think canceling X-Men makes much sense at all. In the past year it has only slipped below the top 25 one time and that was to 26. Add to that that DC's 52 is consistently in the top 25 with multiple issues and when that gimmick ends... Surely X-Men is a safe title.

Canceling X-Men wouldn't be canceling X-Men. It would just be retitling it Uncanny. Makes it so you can't go "I think I'm just going to follow this X-book." Now you have to buy them all.

[Young Avenger]

Blade got canned a month ago.

[static]

so its Uncanny Xmen and Amazing Spiderman but 3 times a month. hmmm...i think i like this idea actaully! but it cant be the same writer and penciler carrying on the story line unless they are done in arcs and months in advance?!? in wizard they mentioned in the the mesiah complex interview that when asked if the current x writers will stay on after the cross over mike carey says "like i said earlier, the line changes radically coming out of the crossover, i mean, we're all goind to still be involved in the franschise, but the landscaping is going to be different" saying the line changes could indicate uncanny 3 x a month but i wonder how it can be cooridinated. they would all have to dove tail eachothers stories together or have long arcs or something lol

[Insurgent]

I think that Marvel should at least give Deadpool another book after the Cable and Deadpool series. It's one of my favourite, they should get UDON involved like they did on Cable and Deadpool (and in Agent X, that version of Taskmaster is the best) as well.

[Beast]

I think that Marvel should at least give Deadpool another book after the Cable and Deadpool series. It's one of my favourite, they should get UDON involved like they did on Cable and Deadpool (and in Agent X, that version of Taskmaster is the best) as well.
Deadpool's already been mentioned as being a regular feature in Marvel Comics Presents.

[schmevil]

Adjectiveless X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Messiah Complex. Rumors say Uncanny 2x a Month.
Ultimate X-Men - Rumored Cancelled after Ultimatum.

Spectacular Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Cancelled. Making way for Amazing Spider-Man 3x a Month.

I'm sure there are people who will disagree but since getting back into comics, I've found that multiple books for a given character can be a barrier to entry. It seems like such an undertaking - you have to either buy all of them, or figure out which one suits you best. But in order to do that, you have to sample them all. And *then* the books refer to each other.

It takes so long to figure all this out that it's not worth the trouble. At least, it's not worth the trouble if you don't have hundreds to spend on comics every month. ;-)

I'm so in favour of streamlining the various families of books.

[cap5]

I have a feeling Ghost rider and Moon night will get the ax soon

[drwho]

They both need new creative teams cus I do think Moon Knight is just overly hyped right now and Ghost Rider is just plain bad, but the sales don't show these books getting canceled anytime soon. Both these books sell over 40 thousand issues I think which is decent for a comic.

[Young Avenger]

Moon Knight isn't near cancellation danger. It still sells well with all the delays. Annual is coming out next month and a new creative team is coming in January. All is good with Moon Knight.

[sinjection]

Bring Back Cloak.

[pimp1911]

I would have to say that Moon Knight has a better chance of sticking around than Ghost Rider.

[Jackob]

Bring Back Cloak.

And Dagger

[mattx110]

I have a feeling Ghost rider and Moon night will get the ax soon

not if they combine them for the new defenders!

[overcomebyfumes]

Ghost Rider is just plain bad.

I have every issue of Ghost Rider ever published, from Marvel Spotlight #5 to the present.

Ghost Rider has always been awful. Ghost Rider has never been good.

There's a good argument to be made that the current run is actually the best one ever - when you compare it to previous Ghost Rider stories. (Some say the first twelve issues of vol. 2 were pretty good. And they are, relative to any other Ghost Rider story. Compare them to other comics, and yea, you'll see pretty quickly that they're mediocre at best.)

There's obvious massive room for improvement. I'd like to see a new writer. Dan Way is beginning to grate on me. I'd actually like to see what Vaughan would do with the character, maybe with Hotz on art, same team as "The Hood". And they need to bring back Ms. Catmint.

A Ghost Rider vs. The Hood story arc is badly needed.

pax.

[Young Avenger]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garth Ennis take another crack at Ghost Rider.

[Trey]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garth Ennis take another crack at Ghost Rider.

I second this thought

[overcomebyfumes]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garth Ennis take another crack at Ghost Rider.


Ugh. Garth Ennis took the Punisher and brilliantly re-imagined the character. Garth Ennis took Ghost Rider... and gave us "Untold Tales of the Preacher". Only without the Preacher. And Ghost Rider being only incidental to the plot.

I have the sense Ennis doesn't understand or "get" Johnny Blaze, and doesn't want to. I hope he stays far far away.

He did create Ms. Catmint tho, and that does count for something I guess.

pax.

[Wind-Breaker]

Is New Warriors at risk?

[Young Avenger]

Ugh. Garth Ennis took the Punisher and brilliantly re-imagined the character. Garth Ennis took Ghost Rider... and gave us "Untold Tales of the Preacher". Only without the Preacher. And Ghost Rider being only incidental to the plot.

I have the sense Ennis doesn't understand or "get" Johnny Blaze, and doesn't want to. I hope he stays far far away.

He did create Ms. Catmint tho, and that does count for something I guess.

pax.

I'm aware of the Preacher comparisons his Ghost Rider mini received. I feel if Marvel gave him free reign on the character like they did with the Punisher we'll get a much better result. A move to MAX could do GR good.

[Omega Alpha]

Is New Warriors at risk?

Yes, sales are dropping fast.

[Expletive Deleted]

Is New Warriors at risk?Probably not yet.

Its numbers need to level out fairly soon, though.

[Expletive Deleted]

Yes, sales are dropping fast.

Probably not yet.

Heh. And it's worth noting out that all of our analyses are, at best, informed speculation.

[jed_5590]

I would have to say that Moon Knight has a better chance of sticking around than Ghost Rider.

I agree.. Ghost Rider isn't good at all.

[cap5]

Can someone post the sales chart on the comics

[StoneGold]

I have every issue of Ghost Rider ever published, from Marvel Spotlight #5 to the present.

Ghost Rider has always been awful. Ghost Rider has never been good.

There's a good argument to be made that the current run is actually the best one ever - when you compare it to previous Ghost Rider stories. (Some say the first twelve issues of vol. 2 were pretty good. And they are, relative to any other Ghost Rider story. Compare them to other comics, and yea, you'll see pretty quickly that they're mediocre at best.)

There's obvious massive room for improvement. I'd like to see a new writer. Dan Way is beginning to grate on me. I'd actually like to see what Vaughan would do with the character, maybe with Hotz on art, same team as "The Hood". And they need to bring back Ms. Catmint.

A Ghost Rider vs. The Hood story arc is badly needed.

pax.

I have to agree. Ghost Rider has always been a cool visual, but that's about it.


Daniel Way's evolution has irritated me a tad. When he was just doing minis and fill ins, he did some brilliant work. I love his two Bullseye series. His HoM Wolverine issues were some of the best HoM tie ins. But his regular series work has been somewhat lacking. Which basically means Ghost Rider and Origins. Now, Origins just got really good, with the Captain America flashback. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new turn on the book. Although, as much as I like Dillon, he's the wrong artist for this book.

[Jamie]

Yes, sales are dropping fast.

Is New Warriors any good? I've decided to give a couple of Marvel titles a shot, and New Warriors and the Order are the two (mainstream) ones that look most interesting. I just picked up the Order #1 today and will likely read it over the weekend, and want to know if I should bother with trying NW as well.

(Please, no other recommendations, I know what I'm interested in.)

[Expletive Deleted]

Can someone post the sales chart on the comics

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/10/23/marvel-month-to-month-sales-september-2007/

[cap5]

thanks for posting the sales chart,there always fun to look at

[40yearoldnovafan]

Is New Warriors at risk?

Here's the problem with some of the Initiative titles. I don't know if they were designed as limited series or as on going series. If it came out of Civil War and says initiative on the top, I think it was designed as a temporary title. But I don't know.

Jimmy

[cap5]

Is New Warriors at risk?

it dosent look good

[bd2999]

I have every issue of Ghost Rider ever published, from Marvel Spotlight #5 to the present.

Ghost Rider has always been awful. Ghost Rider has never been good.

There's a good argument to be made that the current run is actually the best one ever - when you compare it to previous Ghost Rider stories. (Some say the first twelve issues of vol. 2 were pretty good. And they are, relative to any other Ghost Rider story. Compare them to other comics, and yea, you'll see pretty quickly that they're mediocre at best.)

There's obvious massive room for improvement. I'd like to see a new writer. Dan Way is beginning to grate on me. I'd actually like to see what Vaughan would do with the character, maybe with Hotz on art, same team as "The Hood". And they need to bring back Ms. Catmint.

A Ghost Rider vs. The Hood story arc is badly needed

I disagree. I mean its always a matter of opinion, what one person hates another will love. The big problem with GR has been a lack of continuity. The stories are convoluted and get confusing unless you can pull many angles together.

I will agree that the initial run was corny as Hell. I am not a big fan of it until towards its end, however I think that the second volume was quite good. I mean it has rough patches in it, just like any book that is an ongoing, but I dont see anything in it to indicate its worse than another series. The art for most of the series was good, until GR got his dayglow costume. That was bad, but I think how they handled alot of things was well done in the second run.

It suffered from what alot of comics in the 90's did, that is you had to get a set of other books aside from the normal title to actually get the whole story and I think that is annoying but other than that there is nothing wrong with that run really. There is some corniness to it, but that is the case with all comics.

I have liked Way's run for most of the series. I think the current backstory needs to end though. I mean I like the devil being the foe and all of that but at the same time I want to see some other villans in there for old hot head to fight and go against. I have enjoyed the current run. Not to say that every issue has been good. There have been one or two that have had nothing really happen in them at all, but aside from that I think its pretty good overall. Not the best but not thw rost either.

Ghost Rider is not in to much danger of getting canned in the near future. Its getting an annual next month and sells about 30 000 copies a month consistantly. For not being one of Marvel's huge sellers you cannot ask much more from a title. I would think that She Hulk or Ms. Marvel would be more in danger but with Peter David going to SH that title will see a bump in sales.

[Madison Carter]

It suffered from what alot of comics in the 90's did, that is you had to get a set of other books aside from the normal title to actually get the whole story and I think that is annoying but other than that there is nothing wrong with that run really. There is some corniness to it, but that is the case with all comics.

I think, beyond the day-glo outfit, one of the things that eventually took its toll on the 90s GR series was that it kept introducing new mysterious characters, situations, plots and the like, and rarely followed them up. Characters were introduced, built up over an issue or two as new major players and then never appeared again, and many of them were never given explanations for who they were or why they were around.

[dingo]

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/10/23/marvel-month-to-month-sales-september-2007/

thanks for posting the sales chart,there always fun to look at

Fun? I think they are about the most depressing thing in comics.

[matthewaos]

I actually enjoy GR, I fail to see why people think is a bad comic. Really. I think it's a good story, not "OMG, THIS IS THE BEST STORY EVER TOLD" good, but enjoyable. And Moon Knight... If they say it's going to be canceled, I'm gonna buy 40k issues my self...

[Holdyourfireal]

Moon Knight isn't near cancellation danger. It still sells well with all the delays. Annual is coming out next month and a new creative team is coming in January. All is good with Moon Knight.

No. It's not. I just dropped it. It's been a mess since day 1. Bring back a real comic writer --- Doug Monech!

[Holdyourfireal]

I have every issue of Ghost Rider ever published, from Marvel Spotlight #5 to the present.

Ghost Rider has always been awful. Ghost Rider has never been good.

There's a good argument to be made that the current run is actually the best one ever - when you compare it to previous Ghost Rider stories. (Some say the first twelve issues of vol. 2 were pretty good. And they are, relative to any other Ghost Rider story. Compare them to other comics, and yea, you'll see pretty quickly that they're mediocre at best.)

There's obvious massive room for improvement. I'd like to see a new writer. Dan Way is beginning to grate on me. I'd actually like to see what Vaughan would do with the character, maybe with Hotz on art, same team as "The Hood". And they need to bring back Ms. Catmint.

A Ghost Rider vs. The Hood story arc is badly needed.

pax.

I guess you never read the issues by Roger Stern, JM Dematties, Bob Budiansky & Dave Simons? GREAT stuff!

[Holdyourfireal]

Ugh. Garth Ennis took the Punisher and brilliantly re-imagined the character. Garth Ennis took Ghost Rider... and gave us "Untold Tales of the Preacher". Only without the Preacher. And Ghost Rider being only incidental to the plot.

I have the sense Ennis doesn't understand or "get" Johnny Blaze, and doesn't want to. I hope he stays far far away.

He did create Ms. Catmint tho, and that does count for something I guess.

pax.

I'm with you! No Ennis!

[Holdyourfireal]

Yes, sales are dropping fast.

I dropped New Warriors & The Initiative last month.

[Holdyourfireal]

Is New Warriors any good? I've decided to give a couple of Marvel titles a shot, and New Warriors and the Order are the two (mainstream) ones that look most interesting. I just picked up the Order #1 today and will likely read it over the weekend, and want to know if I should bother with trying NW as well.

(Please, no other recommendations, I know what I'm interested in.)

Please explain how The Order looks interesting???? I'd love to know what you're thinking!

[Faded]

Is New Warriors any good? I've decided to give a couple of Marvel titles a shot, and New Warriors and the Order are the two (mainstream) ones that look most interesting. I just picked up the Order #1 today and will likely read it over the weekend, and want to know if I should bother with trying NW as well.

(Please, no other recommendations, I know what I'm interested in.)

Its so-so. Out of the five issues released, I enjoyed 2.

But really, you shouldn't take any of our opinions too strongly.

[z0mbie_aut0pil0t]

Ghost Rider is really terrible. Although I think that's due to Way being a pretty lame writer, heh. I don't like his Wolverine book either.

[matthewaos]

His Wolverine book should be canceled!!! Once again, I believe that GR is not all that bad, at least I can enjoy it. I hope Iron Fist is not on the list...

[Expletive Deleted]

His Wolverine book should be canceled!!!Given where it's sitting, I'd say that's unlikely for the time being.I hope Iron Fist is not on the list...I think it's relatively safe as long as it stays stable. Someone else may not be convinced of that, given its relative closeness to the relaunch/cancellation zone.

It all depends on how you want to interpret the limited amount of information we have available. Remember, the ICV2 numbers we usually cite are only estimates of domestic direct market sales of individual comic books to retailers. None of us really know what Marvel's going to do in any given situation. So . . . my advice is not to take anything in these types of discussions too seriously.

[cap5]

If you had to Cancel a Ultimate book which on would you ax
Out of all the Ultimate books right now i think Ultimate X-man would be it

[1WEBHEAD]

If you had to Cancel a Ultimate book which on would you ax
Out of all the Ultimate books right now i think Ultimate X-man would be it

Ditto.

I luv ya Kirkman but UXM is not your best work.

At All.

[Siddon]

You do have a lot of limited information, I would say Black Panther is a title I wouldn't expect to see around for very much longer.

P.S. The Order is a very good book

P.P.S. I would cancel Ultimate Fantastic Four, Ultimate X-men can be good at any time, Ultimate Fantastic Four just doesn't seem to work.

[cap5]

I dropped New Warriors & The Initiative last month.

How are the Initiative titles

[StoneGold]

You do have a lot of limited information, I would say Black Panther is a title I wouldn't expect to see around for very much longer.


Irony!!! BP is selling about 40k or so, pretty healthy in today's market.

[StoneGold]

Please explain how The Order looks interesting???? I'd love to know what you're thinking!

Go search for The Order thread from this month. You'll find your answers there, as well as the response for the book being rather positive overall.

[Siddon]

Irony!!! BP is selling about 40k or so, pretty healthy in today's market.

BP is running out of tricks to keep the title afloat

1-12 given away for free if you bought Wolverine
12-24 the Storm romance, and Civil War
25-32 - let me take a breath given an Initiative crossover label while being a part of the new fantastic four while battling the Marvel Zombies

It's a book built on stunts more so then any other book in Marvel or (to my knowledge) DC.

I just have a really hard time believing that this title will make it past issue 50.

[StoneGold]

BP is running out of tricks to keep the title afloat

1-12 given away for free if you bought Wolverine
12-24 the Storm romance, and Civil War
25-32 - let me take a breath given an Initiative crossover label while being a part of the new fantastic four while battling the Marvel Zombies

It's a book built on stunts more so then any other book in Marvel or (to my knowledge) DC.

I just have a really hard time believing that this title will make it past issue 50.

Which doesn't have anything to do with reality of sales, and everything to do with "I don't like this book." Which is fine, don't like it, but even under your rules, why couldn't they come up with another "gimmick?" It's simple enough. Black Panther gets turned into a woman, has on-panel sex with Storm. That ought to last for another 8 issues, at least.



Seriously, anyone who says that someone can't keep the gimmicks up forever doesn't have a very good imagination. And for that matter, one man's gimmick is another man's story. Anyone want to explain how BP getting married is a gimmick vs. story? Because it happened too quickly? And if I go through your post history and read you ever complaining about decompression, can I laugh?

[matthewaos]

It's not that you are wrong, but I think that when a book is all into gimmicks it most probably means that:

1) Need more sales. Not that this means cancellation, if you are Spider-Man though...

2) The writer has no more ideas for stories. Which means that the people will get bore eventually (see comics in the 90s).

That's my opinion though, I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that gimmicks all the time is not a good sign.

[StoneGold]

It's not that you are wrong, but I think that when a book is all into gimmicks it most probably means that:

Yeah, but in this case, gimmick is a story in a book you don't like, so you call it a gimmick because it gives it a name, and therefor makes it objectively bad. Wacky covers are gimmicks. Obtaining Storm as a regular cast member is not.

[matthewaos]

This could take really long, because we have to define what a gimmick is. I mean, if bringing Storm wasn't a good idea and they offed her from the book after 5 issues wouldn't be a gimmick?

[Siddon]

Obtaining Storm as a regular cast member is not.

To join the fantastic four and fight zombies and Clor. I'm going to have to wait a year before I get to see Thor fight Clor but hey Storm got a shot at him so it's okay.

I'm sure Black Panther will turn into a Skrull get Storm pregnant and beat Thanos but at some point the comics have to be good.

[StoneGold]

I'm sure Black Panther will turn into a Skrull get Storm pregnant and beat Thanos but at some point the comics have to be good.

And that's the key point here, you don't think they're good. Which is fine. But at the end of the day, your opinion only counts as much as everyone else's. And apparently, there are 40k or so worth of people who apparently disagree with you. Which leads to the book not getting canceled any time soon. Because that's what this is about. Books that will get canceled, not books that I don't like and therefor think should get canceled.

[matthewaos]

Because that's what this is about. Books that will get canceled, not books that I don't like and therefor think should get canceled.

Except Wolverine origins, that should be canceled!;)

[StoneGold]

Except Wolverine origins, that should be canceled!;)

Actually, the last couple of issues with the Cap flashbacks have been pretty awesome.

[Verminous]

No. It's not. I just dropped it. It's been a mess since day 1. Bring back a real comic writer --- Doug Monech!

If you're gonna disagree with a post, please make sure you have read and understood the post first.

2 points, MK is selling well and there is a new creative team coming on board. Geez.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Please explain how The Order looks interesting???? I'd love to know what you're thinking!

It's written by matt fraction, one of the better writers in the business today. That's good enough.

[Ullar]

I rember seeing a blog w/ marvel slaes numbers and an analysis but I can't find it now. anyone know what it is?

[DasPoppen]

Try here:
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/category/sales-charts/

[Ullar]

thanks man

[Kid Kyoto]

thanks that was a good read

[daletron]

i REALLY wish Deadpool & Cable wasn't going to be cancelled....... it's my favorite book atm and feel like i'm going through withdrawals already

can't they jus give him a solo book!? bring back Simone or something =T

[Chachi]

Is New Warriors at risk?

I give it 12 issues.

[matthewaos]

Oh, you two...

As for NW, I give it 14 issues, which these days for some reason is more common...

[tkitna]

I really enjoyed the Dematteis, Stern, and Fleisher run on Ghost Rider in the 80's, but the 90's with all the Midnight Sons garbage and the weekly crossovers killed it for me.

I never really got into Moon Knight. I have a few issues from the first run, but it never did anything for me.

[Brian Cronin]

Let's just stick to discussing which titles that we think will be cancelled, based on the sales numbers available to us.

-Brian

[stingerman]

Thought you guys might like to read this (seeing how there was just a cancelled titles thread and all):

flash version (best view) - http://www.bringbackwendell.com/marvelage130.html

HTML version - http://www.bringbackwendell.com/cancellation.htm


http://www.bringbackwendell.com/marvelage130part1.jpg

http://www.bringbackwendell.com/marvelage130part2.jpg

[StoneGold]

Of course, in theory you could blame things like this for why Marvel went bankrupt.

[stingerman]

Marvel Age #130
November 1993

[Daouda]

stingerman; good post.

The article my be a decade and a half old but I still find it interesting as a Marvel insider's view.

Excelsior!

Daoud

[stingerman]

stingerman; good post.

The article my be a decade and a half old but I still find it interesting as a Marvel insider's view.

Excelsior!

Daoud

thanks. Did you catch the other Marks Remarks "Death of a Character" I posted?
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=193796

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Right now theres a hell of a debate going on over the end of Cable & Deadpool. The teamup series featuring 2 of Marvel's characters in an offbeat buddy book has been cancelled at #50. Of course many are pissed over it claiming Marvel and its editors pushed the book into cancellation to relaunch Cable.

Are they right ? Are they wrong ? Right now I can think of a few reasons on what leads a series into cancellation.


The Editor in Chief wants it that way !

Over at Christopher Priest's site , Priest told the story of how he had came onto Powerman & Iron Fist. The series was an ok seller then in that period of the 1980's. But soon Marvel and the EIC pushed the series into a By-Monthly shipping schedule.

Priest wasn't happy and neither was Denny O'Neil who felt his book was being hung out to die. When sales went down O'Neil was told the book was to be cancelled at #125. This pissed him off as he felt the series was basically done like this to clear titles for the New Universe titles ahead.

The finale was a wacky death scene and O'Neil's way of sending a F-CK YOU to Marvel. But its kinda clear the book was being 86'd to do New Universe.

Characters relaunched:

Over at DC , they like Marvel seemingly allowed a series to be tanked to do a relaunch . DC in 2002/2003 pretty much allowed Green Lantern as a title to be taken in a horrible direction by Ben Raab. As many will debate the move seems to be a way to have allowed Dan Didio to bring back Hal Jordan as he wanted and try to choke down the Kyle Rayner fanbase.

Raab did a 10+ issue arc in space , cutting the character off from Earth and the supporting characters the series had. Its little shock this ruined the series. Then you add the fact Raab had ruined Excalibur and well.... you wonder why Didio allowed him to do the book.

Once Raab had tanked the series , Didio allowed Ron Marz to write a 6 issue final arc of the character and brought in Geoff Johns to bring back Hal Jordan in a huge return series.

A New #1 ...or New Creative team !

Sometimes a cancelled series needs a jolt. Sometimes a low selling series needs to try and lure a small fanbase with a new 1#. Marvel is pretty good at this as they have cancelled Excalibur , Runaways , She-Hulk and various other low selling books and giving them a new 1# .

Or another thing to is a creative team. Take a low selling book like Black Panther. If its sales continue to drop Marvel may try a new 1# trick or bring on a fan favorite creative team . To try and lure more fans to the series.

So many characters are B/C level heroes and DC has this problem as well. Its hard to sell those heroes to the mainstream comic book buying fanbase and there is only X-Amount of dollars in todays money that can go towards comics. And books like "Blue Beetle" , "All-New Atom" and "Heroes for Hire" get the biggest squeeze .



The reason I posted this is because I wanted to explain that its not "white comic book" fans who sink a series. Its usually the 3 reasons given here.....hope this helps....;)

[Brickbatstone]

didnt it get cancelled because of sales?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

didnt it get cancelled because of sales?

Usually that happens as well...

[Frodo-X]

It does seem as though Marvel wasn't trying to help Cable & Deadpool toward the end, though. Like with the fairly important crossover with X-men that was promoted...absolutely nowhere.

I blame all the white people at Marvel.

[DeadXMan]

It does seem as though Marvel wasn't trying to help Cable & Deadpool toward the end, though. Like with the fairly important crossover with X-men that was promoted...absolutely nowhere.

I blame all the white people at Marvel.


if your gonna blame white people, blame the Canadians :rolleyes:

[stingerman]

You may find this interesting. I posted this before. Dont know if you caught it or not:

Why some titles are cancelled by Mark Gruenwald
Marvel Age #130
November 1993

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=196037

[DaeJi]

It would be nice to be able to believe that all cancelled titles are canned due to sales or for a creative reason. However, at times it seems that editors just don't like certain titles are want them to be canned.

[Chiasm]

I think its pretty obvious that in Cable and Deadpool's case the cancellation came because over in X-men they wanted to pretend to kill Cable for a while.

[The Shadow]

if your gonna blame white people, blame the Canadians :rolleyes:

Now that our dollar is stronger than the American... WE get to lay the blame now! :evilsmile :evilsmile

[DaeJi]

Now that our dollar is stronger than the American... WE get to lay the blame now! :evilsmile :evilsmile

I'm sorry, but you are still Canadian.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

It's a shame about Cable & Deadpool, especially since it had such a dedicated readership. I didn't pick up the book personally, in fact, once I decided I might it was only a day or so before they decided to cancel it - shame.

[StoneGold]

It's a shame about Cable & Deadpool, especially since it had such a dedicated readership. I didn't pick up the book personally, in fact, once I decided I might it was only a day or so before they decided to cancel it - shame.

So it's all your fault!

[AnthonyJ]

While marginal books may live or die based on internal politics or editorial bias, which books count as marginal is dependent on sales. Cable/Deadpool was never a really strong seller, so it's actually doing pretty well to have made it to #50.

[Karthak]

While marginal books may live or die based on internal politics or editorial bias, which books count as marginal is dependent on sales. Cable/Deadpool was never a really strong seller, so it's actually doing pretty well to have made it to #50.

It was never a strong seller because Marvel promoted it absolutely...nowhere.

[Wade_Wilsons_Tailor]

I thought Cable and Deadpool got cancelled for sales and for the fact alot of lifetime comic readers/critics would downplay Deadpool's part before Cables part, when Deadpool was basically the real shinning part of the book.

30 year old Douche bag critic's are so obsessed with fantasizing about being Captian America and super serious characters, that they can't write their reviews and tap into the fan base of Deadpool fans. They can't tap into the Deadpool consiousness lol.

Deadpool the character taps into a sense of loserdom, failure, yet brutal conquest. The charactor Deadpool behind the corny jokes...theres a true respect and love for his battle with any and everyone. Would be surprised how many people identified with his charactor, and if they never purchased a book and just downloaded it. I suggest Marvel starts being Vocal on their reasons of cancelling fan favorite books like Cable and Deadpool, especially if it's due to lack of sales. Lack of sales when you also hear a legitmate fan base. Let that fanbase know, if you don't buy this sh*t we'll have to cut off our payroll cause we don't have the money. And I bet they'll bend that corner to get that comic from Barnes and Nobles rack, to any rack that spins that book.

[Crimson]

There is also New Direction.

I mean look at the Spidey books. Look at Cable and Deadpool. The characters are moving in a new direction so the books are changing with them.

[Love Machine]

I thought Cable and Deadpool got cancelled for sales and for the fact alot of lifetime comic readers/critics would downplay Deadpool's part before Cables part, when Deadpool was basically the real shinning part of the book.

30 year old Douche bag critic's are so obsessed with fantasizing about being Captian America and super serious characters, that they can't write their reviews and tap into the fan base of Deadpool fans. They can't tap into the Deadpool consiousness lol.



Which is amusingly ironic when you consider which Character Marvel ripped off when they first created Deadpool, that being uber serious villian Deathstroke

[Nick MB]

Lack of sales when you also hear a legitmate fan base. Let that fanbase know, if you don't buy this sh*t we'll have to cut off our payroll cause we don't have the money. And I bet they'll bend that corner to get that comic from Barnes and Nobles rack, to any rack that spins that book.

This isn't really true.

It's been common knowledge that C&D sales have been pretty bad for years, and they never went up.

Also, if Deadpool has a "legitimate fanbase", why would they need to get threatened with cancellation before they buy his comic?

And also, I think most readers and critics of Cable & Deadpool entirely acknowledged that Deadpool stole the show a lot of the time.

[AnthonyJ]

It was never a strong seller because Marvel promoted it absolutely...nowhere.
While promotion is important when a book starts, after the start a book rises and falls to a large degree on its own. Lack of promotion is a classic fan's excuse for why their favorite comic didn't do better, but it's pretty much never valid.

[Ramiel]

EDIT: Oh, nevermind

[kalorama]

While promotion is important when a book starts, after the start a book rises and falls to a large degree on its own. Lack of promotion is a classic fan's excuse for why their favorite comic didn't do better, but it's pretty much never valid.

I have to agree. The long-term survival of a book (or any product) depends on large numbers of consumers being willing to buy it. There are all kinds of promotional and marketing tricks that can create temporary spikes in sales, but that's all they are. Consumers can be swayed into buying something they have no interest in only as long as they don't know they have no interest in it. Once they actually buy it and figure out it's not what they want, they're pretty much gone for good.

[stingerman]

There is also New Direction.

I mean look at the Spidey books. Look at Cable and Deadpool. The characters are moving in a new direction so the books are changing with them.


Yep- the new direction is more of a "killer instinct" personality and the "super hero" persona is getting axed.

[Doomas]

It seems that the marvel fanbase has a hard time accepting a book with any kind of a humorous bent. Thing, Ant-Man, and now Cable and Deadpool. I don't think they could have done anything to really save these books, they were all pretty good, imo, but people want more serious stuff I guess when it comes to their men in tights. How are She-Hulk sales?

[Monty_Cristo]

It seems that the marvel fanbase has a hard time accepting a book with any kind of a humorous bent. Thing, Ant-Man, and now Cable and Deadpool. I don't think they could have done anything to really save these books, they were all pretty good, imo, but people want more serious stuff I guess when it comes to their men in tights. How are She-Hulk sales?

they totally misread Ant-Man. it was about as dark as any other book that was on the stands. it was just assumed to be humorous because, well, it's Ant-Man and the memorable/internet-worthy moments tended to be funny. otherwise, it was a character study of a sociopath.

[ivesaidway2much]

It seems that the marvel fanbase has a hard time accepting a book with any kind of a humorous bent. Thing, Ant-Man, and now Cable and Deadpool. I don't think they could have done anything to really save these books, they were all pretty good, imo, but people want more serious stuff I guess when it comes to their men in tights. How are She-Hulk sales?It's not just the Marvel fanbase. Does DC even publish a humorous ongoing? And I'd be surprised if humorous mangas didn't trail significantly behind the more serious ones in terms of sales as well.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It's not just the Marvel fanbase. Does DC even publish a humorous ongoing? And I'd be surprised if humorous mangas didn't trail significantly behind the more serious ones in terms of sales as well.

Booster Gold is DC's current humor book.

[stingerman]

Booster Gold is DC's current humor book.

And its awesome!

[Nick MB]

It's true, comics from the big 2 with a strong comic relief element tend to sell terribly. See also: Priest's Black Panther, which did have a lot of great serious moments, but also had a often-comic relief character (Everett K Ross) as point of view.
Net result, sales in the toilet. Shame, as the mix of comedy and drama is one of my favourite things in comics. Writers like Bendis still fit a lot of comic relief in (Ultimate Spidey features some of the finest one-liners in comics), but have to heavily up the melodrama/angst quota to match.

[cap5]

I have a feeling Black Panther might be the next one to get cancelled just a feeling
I think Siddon is right it is a book bassed on stunts
this is the sales for it
10/05 Black Panther #9 - 40,173
=====
10/06 Black Panther #21 - 34,257 (+28.9%)
11/06 Black Panther #22 - 47,556 (+38.8%)
12/06 Black Panther #23 - 54,762 (+15.2%)
01/07 Black Panther #24 - 59,971 ( +9.5%)
02/07 Black Panther #25 - 56,479 ( -5.8%)
03/07 Black Panther #26 - 51,385 ( -9.0%)
04/07 —
05/07 Black Panther #27 - 52,552 ( +2.3%)
06/07 Black Panther #28 - 61,808 (+17.6%)
07/07 Black Panther #29 - 55,027 (-11.0%)
08/07 Black Panther #30 - 48,478 (-11.9%)
09/07 —
10/07 Black Panther #31 - 33,673 (-30.5%)
6 mnth ( — )
1 year ( -1.7%)
2 year (-16.2%)This is very strange. The previous arc guest starred the Marvel Zombies, which might explain the huge drop for this month. But that story didn’t hold readers well, and besides, the zombies were also mentioned in the solicitation for this issue. But look at that drop. I can only assume this is a combination of the widespread post-Initiative decline, and the end of the zombie storyline proper. It’s not pretty.

BLACK PANTHER has been tied up in events, stunts and crossovers for so long that it’s avoided dealing with the lurking question: what happens when it has to stand on its own two feet again? Obviously, the hope was that the extra readers would stick around. But the trend for the last few months is pretty hair-raising, even by the standards of other Initiative titles.

[KrymynalChylde]

I have a feeling Black Panther might be the next one to get cancelled just a feeling
I think Siddon is right it is a book bassed on stunts

If this is the same series where BP held the Silver Surfer in an armlock I say good riddance, I hate characters who are written that way.

On the cancelling note, I must say it totally sucks balls that Cable and DP got cancelled
Cable meh, but Wade deserves his own series dammit!

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

On the cancelling note, I must say it totally sucks balls that Cable and DP got cancelled
Cable meh, but Wade deserves his own series dammit!



I agree, Deadpool is one of Marvel's better creations. Very unpredictable and very funny. The current storyline involving sidekick/prisoner Bob, Agent of Hydra, is one of the funniest reads in years!

[rZi]

I was under the impression that neither ghost rider nor moon knight were ever really popular.

[Harlock]

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/11777.html

So Marvel owns exactly half of the top 50. Ms. Marvel is flagging. Black Panther is flagging. How is Iron Fist only #56? Thor is holding strong so far and the X-titles appear to be benefiting from Messiah CompleX. Fantastic Four is poised to do well when Millar and Hitch take over. Also, Brubaker's Captain America seems to be doing well still, despite the lack of Steve Rogers.

So, what surprises you? What makes you mad? Let's discuss sales and their potential impact!

[Fatguy]

The Order....really needs to be selling better!

[Shyft]

Immortal Iron Fist should be higher. But then #10 wasnt the best issue. Good to see Sub-Mariner in there at #62, im a massive Namor fan. It seems the X-Men:First Class transition into an ongoing hasnt gone so well, which is a shame. Seems Marvel is doing very well overall, all 100K+ books are Marvel.

[DarkCrisis]

Wow She-Hulk isn't doing as well as I'd hoped.

[Harlock]

Immortal Iron Fist should be higher. But then #10 wasnt the best issue. Good to see Sub-Mariner in there at #62, im a massive Namor fan. It seems the X-Men:First Class transition into an ongoing hasnt gone so well, which is a shame. Seems Marvel is doing very well overall, all 100K+ books are Marvel.

Yeah, it seems times are good for both Marvel and their fans alike. I think Marvel may be suffering, or rather, some great Marvel characters may be suffering, from the amount of good comics out there right now with A-list creative teams. One wonders if we may not see some of these struggling titles end up with characters on one team or another.

Ms. Marvel is already an Avenger. Iron Fist as well. Is there a chance that Black Panther or Namor could end up on a team? It's happened before, obviously, but one wonders how many team books fans will support.

[worstblogever]

Most of the books that got hyped during Civil War have started flagging.

H4H, in its swan song, though, came in at #64.

Which was still better than The Order, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, and Ghost Rider. If that book sold better, and got cancelled... they're in an interesting place, business-wise.

Keep in mind, though, they all didn't have a crossover to ride the coattails of, and have had to stand on their own two. The exception might be Black Panther, which still features Storm (for X-fans), two members of the Fantastic Four (for their fans), and the Marvel Zombies (for the feel-good gimmick of the year in comics). So with all three of those tie in characters help (and they also appeared in books that came in at #8, #27, and #19 respectively! They're obviously a draw!) it can't do better than #83, and has dropped 15% sales this month after dropping 30% last month? That's a tailspin of sales, right there.

[Pach!]

Everytime someone buys an issue of the Order an angel gets his wings.

[Shyft]

Yeah, it seems times are good for both Marvel and their fans alike. I think Marvel may be suffering, or rather, some great Marvel characters may be suffering, from the amount of good comics out there right now with A-list creative teams. One wonders if we may not see some of these struggling titles end up with characters on one team or another.

Ms. Marvel is already an Avenger. Iron Fist as well. Is there a chance that Black Panther or Namor could end up on a team? It's happened before, obviously, but one wonders how many team books fans will support.

Namor and Black Panther would both have fit perfectly into the New Avengers at its reboot after Civil War taking the place of Hawkeye and possibly Wolverine. It would have created some fantastic tension over leadership, as T'Challa and Namor are both Royalty, but Luke Cage considered himself the teams Leader. but both characters have now gone in different directions, which is a shame.

[Brad Barton]

Wow, thought NOVA was either in or skirting the top 10......he's still in safe territory, but not nearly as popular as I'd thought.

Don't people know it really is one of the best series out there?

Also: Annihilation: Conquest is doing really poorly. Another I thought would be in the Top 20 at least....amazing, it's like everything Abnett and Lanning write is sales anathema, yet everything they write is excellent...

[Harlock]

Wow, thought NOVA was either in or skirting the top 10......he's still in safe territory, but not nearly as popular as I'd thought.

Don't people know it really is one of the best series out there?

Also: Annihilation: Conquest is doing really poorly. Another I thought would be in the Top 20 at least....amazing, it's like everything Abnett and Lanning write is sales anathema, yet everything they write is excellent...

I think this has to do with the amount of A-listers out there these days. Immortal Iron Fist is a great book, but not in the top 50. Heroes For Hire has some hardcore fans as well, not a top 50 book. Ghost Rider is about to get a new creative team so we'll see if that is enough to pull it from the 70th place it has now. And, Ms. Marvel slipped from 60 to 90... granted the last few issues have seen a change in what i felt was the original premise of the book.

Who knows, maybe this is something like comic-book parity? There are enough A-listers that perhaps many comics will survive on previous impetus, like X-Men and Spider-Man will always be huge. Or, perhaps, those characters are huge because they have always been more compelling? This would make an interesting thread in and of itself, but would require much more reearch than I am willing to do.

[vtlogypj]

I was very excited to see Avengers: The Initiative #7 up at 22. Isn't that a significant improvement?

[drwho]

Ghost Rider sales falling is expected. Nova sales falling is bad because the book is good. Also the Order is falling. They need to try to bring more visibility to the Order because that book is very under rated as seen by the current sales. Wow She Hulk appears to be a low seller no matter who writes the thing. If Marvel was smart they should try sticking her on an Avengers team. Marvel really hasn't been advertising Conquest in other books much. They should put some big @$$ add out in Avengers for the mini that shows Ultron on it. That could probably help bring some people in it. I'm surprised Thunderbolts sales aren't higher. I wouldn't be surprised if these drop in books was partly due to all the WWH merchandise that was released. People dropping regular titles for WWH books. Based on the fact that the Omega mini is 10 issues only selling 13000 copies as of the second issue I wouldn't be surprised if MArvel cuts their losses with the thing and doesnt print the whole thing in its original form.

[Cosmik Debris]

That was depressing.
Ms. Marvel, The Order, Thunderbolts, Nova, Moon Knight, Iron Man, and Annihilation Conquest aren't doing so well.

[Fatguy]

That was depressing.
Ms. Marvel, The Order, Thunderbolts, Nova, Moon Knight, Iron Man, and Annihilation Conquest aren't doing so well.

Yea, aside from Conquest which I'm not reading, those are some of my favorite Marvel books.

But, the good news is that the benchmark for a canceled series has changed. I know Iron Man is safe, and I'm pretty sure Thunderbolts, Iron Fist, Nova, and MAYBE Moon Knight are pretty safe. Its Ms. Marvel and the Order that need to worry.

[Brother Zag]

The harsh slap of reality...

Our world is only about 150,000 strong?

We definitely need to be more fruitful and multiply!

As for how Conquest, Nova and other books are doing... guess it all depends on Marvel's expectations for them.

It would be interesting to get some perspective from an editor, or some insider who could provide a frame of reference. Is 35,000 okay?

[PunisherFan]

I was a little surprised to see Batman all the way down at the bottom. It's pretty funny how the top 8 are all Marvel

[Brother Zag]

I was a little surprised to see Batman all the way down at the bottom. It's pretty funny how the top 8 are all Marvel

Actually, that was last month's Batman Issue, selling another 2,900 copies in november. The current issue was #13 and sold 76,700 or so. Not too shabby. Sorry to spoil yer fun, but I thought it bore correcting. Sorry.

[Distorted Humor]

Just goes to show that we might need to expand the base of fandom, or gasp, get the books in places people might buy them without hunting them down.

[Blade X]

These sales figures, for the most part, are terrible. Of course, none of this comes as a big surprise to me. I have been saying for a very long time (on various message boards) that the "huge" sales gains of certain books was due more to gimmicks/stunts then good creative teams. I said it before, and I'll say it again, it's the 90's all over again.

The only POSSIBLE (but by no means GUARANTEED) way for Marvel and DC to increase their audience is to (a) make ALL of their MU and DCU superhero comics suitable for and appealing to readers of all ages without talking down to them (b) stop catering exclusively to the existing and rapidly shrinking older teen and adult comic book readership by making their comics more "mature" (c) stop limiting themselves by trying to emulate tv shows and movies (d) put more effort in selling their CHARACTERS and less effort in selling flavor of the month creators (e) get their books in other venues/sales outlets instead of just comic book stores and (f) give buyers more for their buck.

[stingerman]

Our world is only about 150,000 strong?



Same thing I thought. Is that figure just for the US or the world? (edited- its the US) Its hard to believe that in big cities like NYC only what? a few thousand buy comics out of 6-8 million people?!

Huh! Somethings wrong.

[Siddon]

less then 150,000 this is the hit line
1. ASTONISHING X-MEN #23
2. NEW AVENGERS #36
3. THOR #4
4. UNCANNY X-MEN #492 MC*
5. INCREDIBLE HULK #111 WWH
6. SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #41
7. X-MEN #205
less then 100,000 this is the healthy line
8. CAPTAIN AMERICA #32
9. NEW X-MEN #44 MC
10. X-FACTOR #25 MC
11. AVENGERS INITIATIVE #7
12. WOLVERINE #59
13. ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #116
less then 80,000 this is the okay line
14. FANTASTIC FOUR #551*
15. WOLVERINE ORIGINS #19
less then 60,000 - this is the safe line
16. DAREDEVIL #102
17. ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #48
18. PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #13
19. IMMORTAL IRON FIST #10*
less then 50,000 - this is the "safe" line
20. HEROES FOR HIRE #15
21. PUNISHER #52 (MR)
22. NOVA #8
less then 40,000 - this is the warning line
23. THE ORDER #4 CWI
24. BLACK PANTHER #32
25. MS MARVEL #21
26. SHE-HULK 2 #23
27. CABLE DEADPOOL #47
28. MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #3
less then 25,000 - this is the unofficial cancelation line
29. X-MEN FIRST CLASS VOL 2 #6
30. AVENGERS CLASSIC #6
less then 10,000
31. MARVEL ADVENTURES AVENGERS #18
32. MARVEL ADVENTURES SPIDER-MAN #33
33. MARVEL ADVENTURES HULK #5
34. MARVEL ADVENTURES IRON MAN #7
35. MARVEL ADVENTURES FANTASTIC FOUR #30

Its a little hard to judge to much as we didn't get an Thunderbolts, Moon Knight, Exiles, Iron Man, Ghost Rider, Runaways, Ultimate X-men, Ultimates, and Mighty Avengers most of those books got Annuals and One-shots but still thats about 20% of Marvel's ongoings that were late.

[DasPoppen]

Wow, Wolverine lost like 18k readers in one month. This might be attributable to variant covers last month to some extent. But still, this drop is HUGE!!! Is Chaykin's art responsible??

The gap between Uncanny/ X-Men and New X-Men/ X-Factor is also amazing. Despite being in full crossover mode the gap is approximately 30k. This means that about 1/3 of all readers don't bother to read the whole story of Messiah Complex. :confused:

[jpk]

Wow, Wolverine lost like 18k readers in one month. This might be attributable to variant covers last month to some extent. But still, this drop is HUGE!!! Is Chaykin's art responsible??

The gap between Uncanny/ X-Men and New X-Men/ X-Factor is also amazing. Despite being in full crossover mode the gap is approximately 30k. This means that about 1/3 of all readers don't bother to read the whole story of Messiah Complex. :confused:

I for one dropped the book when Chaykin came on. The art is really, really unappealing to me. I'll wait for a new team to come on before picking it up again.

[Kid Kyoto]

less then 10,000
31. MARVEL ADVENTURES AVENGERS #18
32. MARVEL ADVENTURES SPIDER-MAN #33
33. MARVEL ADVENTURES HULK #5
34. MARVEL ADVENTURES IRON MAN #7
35. MARVEL ADVENTURES FANTASTIC FOUR #30


It's important to note that these are only Diamond numbers and exclude subscriptions and newstand/bookstore sales which is where most of the all-ages stuff has its sales.

[40yearoldnovafan]

Wow, thought NOVA was either in or skirting the top 10......he's still in safe territory, but not nearly as popular as I'd thought.

Don't people know it really is one of the best series out there?

Also: Annihilation: Conquest is doing really poorly. Another I thought would be in the Top 20 at least....amazing, it's like everything Abnett and Lanning write is sales anathema, yet everything they write is excellent...

I am a big Nova fan, but if the title sucked, I would admit it. THE BOOK IS FREAKING GREAT!!!

I think the problem is some people just will not buy it. They may have preconceived notions of Nova based on previous series. They may not have the money to add a new title to their list. Or they may just stick to certain lines like Avengers, Spiderman, or X-men. I mean, I read all these lines, but I do not know why some of them do as well as they do (such as a couple of the X-men titles). And some people just stick mostly to DC.

Should Nova do far better than it is, HELL YES! But you can yell from the roof tops and tell people, but they just look at you like you have two heads.

I just hope Marvel continues to publish it. Ms Marvel has been around for almost two years now, and Nova's numbers are usually better.

Jimmy
One of the #1 Nova fans

[Omega Alpha]

Iron Fist is doing well. 41,000 is more than enough to guarantee the book continuing for a few years.

The Order is doing poorly, though.

[Harlock]

Iron Fist is doing well. 41,000 is more than enough to guarantee the book continuing for a few years.

The Order is doing poorly, though.

Yes, Iron Fist is doing well, but given how good I find it compared to some other comics that are consistently selling better, it is just sort of shocking is all. I mean, I know my taste isn't everyone else's, but it just strikes me as odd.

[Nova3333]

I am a big Nova fan, but if the title sucked, I would admit it. THE BOOK IS FREAKING GREAT!!!

I think the problem is some people just will not buy it. They may have preconceived notions of Nova based on previous series. They may not have the money to add a new title to their list. Or they may just stick to certain lines like Avengers, Spiderman, or X-men. I mean, I read all these lines, but I do not know why some of them do as well as they do (such as a couple of the X-men titles). And some people just stick mostly to DC.

Should Nova do far better than it is, HELL YES! But you can yell from the roof tops and tell people, but they just look at you like you have two heads.

I just hope Marvel continues to publish it. Ms Marvel has been around for almost two years now, and Nova's numbers are usually better.

Jimmy
One of the #1 Nova fans


A lot of new Nova readers have started to read it "later" because most of them missed out on the initial "revamp" thanks to Civil War. Likewise the first three issues of Nova were tie-in's to the Initiative and that was always going to guaranatee a higher return. However as a realist, Nova is always going to be a cork in the middle of a vast sea of competing titles. Hulk, Cap, Avengers and Fantastic Four will always out-do Nova. However at present Nova is the only on-going Marvel Cosmic title; Conquest, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer are limited series runs. That does make a difference. Secondly not one issue of Nova has, as of yet, had a truly bad review, they've been consistantly praise worthy throughout the run so far. Thirdly that Bill Rosemann has brought on board yet another "well-known" artist in the form of Paul Pelletier and cover artist Alex Mallev also must count for certain incentive that Marvel must thing some good of the book. In the end though Marvel needs to prmote it and readers of Nova need to recomend it to others to just have a go buying one issue; one issue is all it takes! But as of yet until you have from Marvel the definitive point of no-return you have to take note that Nova is in the top 100 out of 300! Not bad really!

[TotalWorldDomination]

Still disapointed with The Orders sales. I'm loving the book right now, it's one of my first reads every week, and I've been trying to sucker... I mean convince... a few of my friends to pick it up as well. It should easily be selling in the same range as A:tI.

I'm sure the Order will get a kick from Secret Invasion. If I were editing the book I'd be pushing for some sort of tie in, and even asking for the team to get some love from the Mini. They are the Premire state team from the Initative after all, The second most prominate team in the New Nationwide Order that Stark and Co built. In fact, featuring the team in an issue of A:tI or perhaps sending one of the graduates to join the team (Hardball perhaps?) would be a nice little bump in sales.

[ivesaidway2much]

I was very excited to see Avengers: The Initiative #7 up at 22. Isn't that a significant improvement?No, it's losing readers at a significant rate. -7,700 comics. A 10% drop from issue #6 to #7.

[Brother Zag]

It's important to note that these are only Diamond numbers and exclude subscriptions and newstand/bookstore sales which is where most of the all-ages stuff has its sales.

QFT

I was about to point this out when I saw your post.

The Marvel Adventures line also sells thru B&N, Borders and the like, so Diamond numbers are not accurate sales barometers for these titles.

[stingerman]

I am a big Nova fan, but if the title sucked, I would admit it. THE BOOK IS FREAKING GREAT!!!

I think the problem is some people just will not buy it. They may have preconceived notions of Nova based on previous series. They may not have the money to add a new title to their list. Or they may just stick to certain lines like Avengers, Spiderman, or X-men. I mean, I read all these lines, but I do not know why some of them do as well as they do (such as a couple of the X-men titles). And some people just stick mostly to DC.

Should Nova do far better than it is, HELL YES! But you can yell from the roof tops and tell people, but they just look at you like you have two heads.

I just hope Marvel continues to publish it. Ms Marvel has been around for almost two years now, and Nova's numbers are usually better.

Jimmy
One of the #1 Nova fans

I actually think maybe Marvel should have had the Nova Conquest issues in a mini series, then launched Nova as a #1. Or maybe not listed the issues as Conquest. I'm wondering if the Conquest banner hurt sales?

[Frank]

Marvel should have a kickass team-up cosmic book with Ms.Marvel and Nova. I think it double the sales that each of these characters have in solo.

I think the problem with these second-string characters it's that no publishers is interested in putting Top Notch creators on them. Look at She-Hulk, sure PAD is on it but nobody knows the artist.

What's shocking is in seeing the low sales on Ghost Rider. That's a character that's clearly lost his 90s popularity.

[Brandon Hanvey]

Same thing I thought. Is that figure just for the US or the world? (edited- its the US) Its hard to believe that in big cities like NYC only what? a few thousand buy comics out of 6-8 million people?!

Huh! Somethings wrong.

Welcome to the world of modern direct market singles sales.

The industry has been shifting to more of a trade/book market for the past decade or so. The sales of trade albums passed singles in terms money made a couple years ago.

Plus with the recent push of digital distribution and sales, the intdustry is shifting even more.

[stingerman]

Welcome to the world of modern direct market singles sales.

The industry has been shifting to more of a trade/book market for the past decade or so. The sales of trade albums passed singles in terms money made a couple years ago.

Plus with the recent push of digital distribution and sales, the intdustry is shifting even more.

I am beginning to realize that.

I wonder if Marvel or DC did a television commercial, say during Heroes, if that would work? Actually, in another thread (somewhere) I stated they should do a SuperBowl commercial.
Imagine a great Civil War trailer or WWH trailer.

How are people supposed to buy comics if they are never exposed to them??

[Brandon Hanvey]

I am beginning to realize that.

I wonder if Marvel or DC did a television commercial, say during Heroes, if that would work? Actually, in another thread (somewhere) I stated they should do a SuperBowl commercial.
Imagine a great Civil War trailer or WWH trailer.

How are people supposed to buy comics if they are never exposed to them??

Why pay someone money to advertise your product when you can have someone pay you?

Marvel and DC make more money from licensing their characters than publishing. People are exposed to their characters via movies, tv, toys, ect. and they make a tidy profit from it.

[midnightman2001]

Just curious.

Amazing Spidey
Black Panther
Cap
DD
Fantastic 4
Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Hulk
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man ( the new book coming out this spring)
Ironfist
Marvel Comics Presents
Mighty Avengers
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
New Avengers
Nova
She Hulk
T bolts
Thor


----->>>> I hope THE TWELVE gets an ongoing (same with Captain Marvel) or a series of minis.

Ultimate Spidey
Ultimate FF
Ultimates

[tricksterpup]

The Question is, will you be collecting and reading comics in 2 years?

[midnightman2001]

What? Why would I not be into my comic hobby?


I am going to the San Diego Comic Con this year with a large group of people.

[Alex Smith]

I'd say Tbolts is out and maybe Black Panther.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I'd say
Moon Knight
Ms Marvel
Black Panther
& Marvel Comics Presents
some if not sooner

[tricksterpup]

What? Why would I not be into my comic hobby?


I am going to the San Diego Comic Con this year with a large group of people.

Eventually we all stop some time due to money or just not enjoying the books any more.

[kello]

Just curious.

Amazing Spidey
Black Panther
Cap
DD
Fantastic 4
Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Hulk
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man ( the new book coming out this spring)
Ironfist
Marvel Comics Presents
Mighty Avengers
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
New Avengers
Nova
She Hulk
T bolts
Thor


----->>>> I hope THE TWELVE gets an ongoing (same with Captain Marvel) or a series of minis.

Ultimate Spidey
Ultimate FF
Ultimates

Ms. Marvel
Black Panther
Nova
Thunderbolts (when Ellis inevitably leaves and/or the team membership changes)
She-Hulk
Moon Knight
Ghost Rider (never launch something from a movie!)
Marvel Comics Presents
Black Panther is iffy....
Hulk (red)
Guardians of the Galaxy
Iron Fist (Which is a darn shame!)
Invincible Iron Man (Again, the whole movie thing....)

Basically anything that hasn't been coming out for the last 30 years. I know it's a really long list, and some of these books have weathered worse times (She Hulk and Thunderbolts). but I take a pretty pessimisstic view of titles that don't feature the major icons.

[matthewaos]

Black Panther
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man ( the new book coming out this spring)
Marvel Comics Presents
Mighty Avengers
Ms. Marvel
Thor

[Dr. K]

...
Nova
Thunderbolts (when Ellis inevitably leaves and/or the team membership changes)
...
Iron Fist (Which is a darn shame!)

I was under the impression that Nova and Iron Fist were both going strong. They've been in the top 100 consistently since debuting, selling over 30k each. I wouldn't be surprised to see them last 2 more years apiece, barring any major creative changes.

And if Ellis leaves Thunderbolts, it's true, he might take the book down with him. But it lasted over 100 issues and several membership shakeups before him, so I wouldn't bet against it.

[Croaker]

Ghost Rider just got a huge shot in the arm in the form of Jason Aaron as the writer. He really gets dark and gritty so if enough word of mouth gets out, look for the series to do okay until Aaron leaves. Other than that, the ones I see going are:

Black Panther
Ms. Marvel (hopefully not, but it has been hit or miss for me)
Marvel Comics Presents

Those are the ones I feel safest in saying will be gone in two years time.

[CaptainCanada]

Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Ironfist
Marvel Comics Presents
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
Nova
She Hulk

Potentially all of these; MCP is definitely gone, once it finishes the initital twelve-issue run; I assume Hulk Red is a fixed story, and Banner Hulk will be back reasonably soon. Both the cosmic books are probably not going to last; those kinds of things rarely do.

Iron Fist, if it continues to hold steady as it has so far, will still be around, but it has a fairly limited margin that it can decline.

[HaroldAllnut]

Dead in the water, IMHO.


Black Panther
Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Marvel Comics Presents
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
She Hulk
T bolts
Ultimate FF

[matthewaos]

Why everyone is saying Moon Knight will stop? I'll buy ten copies if I have to!

[Descartes_Lives]

Why everyone is saying Moon Knight will stop? I'll buy ten copies if I have to!

And even that may not do it.

I'd hope that MCP is gone, and I'm sadly going to say Nova. This is his fourth series and although I've enjoyed it, the best predictor for the future is the past. Nova's not a top-tier popular character, and MCP hasn't been doing it for me, which seems to be the same for a lot of readers.

Des.

[RolandJP]

When paper is rationed to us citizens after World War Z, We will be lucky if we have comics. Seriously, who cares--Books come and go with the only consistent titles being Spiderman, Hulk, IronMan, X-men, and Wolverine, FF, And the Avengers.

Speculation is like spitting into the wind. Have we learned nothing from the 90's.

[w00tmaster93]

There was this ad in the 90's after Heroes reborn of about 12 "great" new on-going series they had planned and the only one that is still around today is Thunderbolts.

[stingerman]

There was this ad in the 90's after Heroes reborn of about 12 "great" new on-going series they had planned and the only one that is still around today is Thunderbolts.

what were the other 11?

I think MCP, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Moon Knight, She-Hulk will be history.

I'm am hoping that the cosmic titles listed, Nova and GoG will make it as Marvel is trying to make a go of these.

[Marcus_Maximus]

There was this ad in the 90's after Heroes reborn of about 12 "great" new on-going series they had planned and the only one that is still around today is Thunderbolts.

Thunderbolts is great!

[vazel]

It's stupid to try to speculate which of those titles won't be around in two years. Some of the titles some of you are so sure won't be around in two years are so far selling good so I don't know what you're pulling out of your asses.

[w00tmaster93]

what were the other 11?

I think MCP, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Moon Knight, She-Hulk will be history.

I'm am hoping that the cosmic titles listed, Nova and GoG will make it as Marvel is trying to make a go of these.

I have an isssue somewhere with the ad in it but I can't find it now. I remember Alpha Flight, Ka-zar, and Heroes for Hire relaunches were on there.

[Pixie_Solanas]

What? Why would I not be into my comic hobby?


I am going to the San Diego Comic Con this year with a large group of people.

Yes, but does this large group know you're going with them?

[Chachi]

MCP will be done at issue 12 later this year
Nova
Black Panther
She Hulk
Ghost Rider

[stingerman]

It's stupid to try to speculate which of those titles won't be around in two years. Some of the titles some of you are so sure won't be around in two years are so far selling good so I don't know what you're pulling out of your asses.

Cut off may be around 20,000 or below? My choices are in bold.

source: http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1857

Dec '07

Amazing Spidey - 124,406
Black Panther - 25,890
Cap - 78,233
DD - 43,847
Fantastic 4 - 51,289
Ghost Rider - 30,522
Guardians of the Galaxy (Spring, I think this is ongoing)
Hulk - 77,073
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man ( the new book coming out this spring)
Ironfist - 32,955
Marvel Comics Presents - 19,878
Mighty Avengers - 90,655
Moon Knight - 44,036** (Iniative)
Ms. Marvel - 26,474*
New Avengers - 105,482
Nova - 30,451
She Hulk - 23,571
T bolts - 47,101**
Thor - 101,490

*Nov '07
**Oct '07

[vazel]

Yes 20k is considered good enough from everything I've read in today's industry but just because a title goes slightly below that threshold doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get canned(see:Catwoman). Although in the next two years a gradual decline can happen on those titles so I see what you're obviously inferring. But who's to say those titles' fanbase won't remain dedicated for the next few years keeping sales steady.

Wow Thor is kicking ass.

[midnightman2001]

Yes, but does this large group know you're going with them?

What kind of stupid question is that? Of course they know! We rent a big greyhound bus. It is a 12 day trip with stops in Las Vegas, on the way there & back! As well as many other places and all along the western USA coast. It is a cross country journey that includes many other stops than just the SD comic con. But that is the point of the trip.

[The Shadow]

Eventually we all stop some time due to money or just not enjoying the books any more.

I dunno... I'm going on 27 years straight without a break.

Hell I've never even gone 3 straight weeks without going to a shop.

[Jake V]

in 2 years time...

Black Panther
Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man
Marvel Comics Presents
Mighty Avengers
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
Nova
She Hulk
T bolts


Will probably be cancelled in their present form, or their characters placed in different books.

[Brother Justin Crowe]

Black Panther
Ghost Rider
Guardians of the Galaxy
Hulk (red)
Invincible Iron Man
Marvel Comics Presents
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
Nova
She-Hulk
Thunderbolts


On the Bubble:
Iron Fist

Other:
Mighty Avengers will be cancelled, and New Avengers will once again become "The Avengers" with the original numbering (probably around "#550" or "#575").

[The Shadow]

Why speculate on potentially bad things? :(

It scares off potential new readers when they keep seeing "Ms Marvel will be gone... the sales are dropping."

Why not focus on the good?

Iron Fist may not have awesome sales but it's an amazing read! Worth checking out.

If people check out the awesome books that have low sales those low selling, yet awesome, books might have a sales INCREASE and grow to thrive in a market that is already dominated by too much Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and Superman.

[midnightman2001]

I am focused on the good. I LOVE LOVE LOVE my current Marvel books! I LOVE being a Marvel zombie!

Let the good times roll baby!

Make mine now & forever more....

M~A~R~V~E~L

:D

[carabas]

Yes 20k is considered good enough from everything I've read in today's industry but just because a title goes slightly below that threshold doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get canned(see:Catwoman).20 is good enough for DC with its deep WB pockets, but Marvel has a somwhat higher cancelation number. The Order was still doing 24K or so when it was chopped.

another factor is how well the book is doing in trades, which tends to be a big concern for DC, but much less so for Marvel (The Order doesn't even get a trade).

[Crimson]

Black Panther (This can't hold out much longer... it keeps dipping only bouncing back up for crossovers before dropping back down)
Ghost Rider
Marvel Comics Presents (12 issues and it'll be gone)
She Hulk (Sales are lower then Slott... shame really, I love PAD)

[leebrown1990]

Black Panther
Ghost Rider
Ironfist
Marvel Comics Presents
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
Nova
She Hulk
T bolts
Thor
One of the hulk series not sure which.

I'd say any of the above could face termination in the next 2 years, but only a slight chance.

[Robo Ape]

Seems to be quite a choice on this one, but of the titles I read I am most concerned by She Hulk, though I still think it's OK I know others have been less than impressed by it's new writer plus I believe it has been losing sales of late.

[sHayden]

What kind of stupid question is that? Of course they know! We rent a big greyhound bus. It is a 12 day trip with stops in Las Vegas, on the way there & back! As well as many other places and all along the western USA coast. It is a cross country journey that includes many other stops than just the SD comic con. But that is the point of the trip.

Does that include a stop at a brothel in Nevada?

[Tedsallis]

Two Years? Okay here's my picks of titles likely to be demised in 2 years.

Black Panther
Fantastic 4
Guardians of the Galaxy
Hulk (red)
Invisible Iron Man
Ironfist
Marvel Comics Presents
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
Nova
She Hulk

[vazel]

20 is good enough for DC with its deep WB pockets, but Marvel has a somwhat higher cancelation number. The Order was still doing 24K or so when it was chopped.

another factor is how well the book is doing in trades, which tends to be a big concern for DC, but much less so for Marvel (The Order doesn't even get a trade).Nah I was talking industry wide in what is considered good enough for sales which seems to be about 20k. And yes TPBs has helped the industry especially with Vertigo titles but the mainstream books still have to do reasonably well in singles.

As for your one example this 20k threshold isn't a fanatic rule. Just like there are Marvel and DC titles that dip below 20k that are still going. And of course indies have no choice but to bear sub-20k numbers. It's just that on average from what I've read and chatted with others the threshold for today's comics industry when comics are considered to do good or bad is about 20k. Just because a title dips below 20k and is considered to be doing bad doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get axed. Don't think about this 20k threshold too literally because in the end it's up to the decisions of the suits on whether it's worth continuing on with a series.

[Expletive Deleted]

It's hard to say. Marvel has culled a number of its more obviously doomed titles over the last few months. The titles on the low end of the sales chart (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/01/30/marvel-month-to-month-sales-december-2007/) would be the most likely guesses, but several of them could get boosts from Secret Invasion or otherwise work their way upwards.

So . . . your guess is as good as mine.

[Asian_Invasion]

They really need to put the axe in She-Hulk, but I hope Nova can survive.

[SquidSquod]

Two Years? Okay here's my picks of titles likely to be demised in 2 years.

Invisible Iron Man


"Invisible". Haha, funny

[Expletive Deleted]

Why speculate on potentially bad things? :(

It scares off potential new readers when they keep seeing "Ms Marvel will be gone... the sales are dropping."

Why not focus on the good?

Iron Fist may not have awesome sales but it's an amazing read! Worth checking out.

If people check out the awesome books that have low sales those low selling, yet awesome, books might have a sales INCREASE and grow to thrive in a market that is already dominated by too much Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and Superman.And, for the record, I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As interesting as "inside baseball" topics like this can be, they're, in the end, almost pure speculation. Don't take them too seriously, and enjoy the comics you enjoy (regardless of how well they're supposedly selling).

[DaeJi]

I would wait to see how GotG does before predicting it's cancellation. I think it can pull off 30k, keeping it in the clear. Also, Black Panther and Ms. Marvel seem to be Marvel's pet projects, the heroes they want to make popular. I don't see those books going anywhere. She-Hulk too, as they'll likely try to save that before giving it the boot. However, Moon Knight and Marvel Comics Presents are looking like canidates. Most other titles you just have to wait and see, you never know what will happen.

[mdg1]

20 is good enough for DC with its deep WB pockets, but Marvel has a somwhat higher cancelation number. The Order was still doing 24K or so when it was chopped.

The Order wasn't canceled. It was Nextwaved (Fraction didn't want to do it without Kitson).

[Expletive Deleted]

The Order wasn't canceled. It was Nextwaved (Fraction didn't want to do it without Kitson).True enough. Although if it had been selling above where it was, Marvel might not have decided it was more cost-effective to move Kitson to another project.

Which, I suppose, also counts as being Nextwaved.

[RolandJP]

What is the average writer's salary and what is the salaries of higher tier writers?.

[Expletive Deleted]

What is the average writer's salary and what is the salaries of higher tier writers?.None of our business, really.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Does that include a stop at a brothel in Nevada?

God, I hope they stocked up on lube at Costco before taking this magical Greyhound bus trip to all things comic on the west coast.

[hotrodimus]

i do hope guardians would do well. ive been really looking forward to this team. and it would be really sad if it would be cancelled so soon

[The Shadow]

And, for the record, I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As interesting as "inside baseball" topics like this can be, they're, in the end, almost pure speculation. Don't take them too seriously, and enjoy the comics you enjoy (regardless of how well they're supposedly selling).

Thanks.

No kidding.

I am a HUGE Brubaker fan but not an Iron Fist fan so I passed on the book when it came out. I have always had a nagging feeling though about it and keep hearing how great it was online and through friends.

I bought 1-9 and then pucked up 10 and 12 (11's on reorder) from my LCS and promptly added the book to my pull list. I don't care how bad it's selling... but now I'm one more added person. If enough people add it a great book won't be in danger.

[RolandJP]

None of our business, really.

Wow, It must be insanely high.

[Expletive Deleted]

Wow, It must be insanely high.To be clear, I have no idea what it is. I'm just saying that high, low, or average, it's not really any of our business.

[Billy Parker]

To be clear, I have no idea what it is. I'm just saying that high, low, or average, it's not really any of our business.

Well let's MAKE it our business!!!

[jpk]

For the record, I never hope for a title to get the ax. Someone, somewhere loves those little books that couldn't.

But...

I can see the curtain falling on New Avengers after the Invasion; once the heroes save the day and the SHRA gets reversed there will be no need for guerilla Avengers teams. It would be ballsy because the book sells 100K a month.

Moon Knight, even with this stellar reboot, will probably peter out somewhere around issue 20.

Black Panther might limp its way through 2008, but I don't see widespread support for that book.

Hulk can't support two books, IMO. One will go by the wayside within a year.

[The Shadow]

Hulk can't support two books, IMO. One will go by the wayside within a year.

Hulk isn't.

He's got one and Herc has a new book with numbering starting at 113.

[Jimmy Holograph]

I don't care how bad it's selling... but now I'm one more added person. If enough people add it a great book won't be in danger.

Sales wont define IIF's existence... for now. If none of the creative team change, the book won't get axed. Marvel and Joe Q don't have the confidence to cancel on Ed (that goes for any of his titles).

Joe didn't want him to do the book in the first place, so the minute he leaves (IF he leaves) the book is in serious trouble, no matter how good Fraction or anybody else is on the title after.

[The Shadow]

Sales wont define IIF's existence... for now. If none of the creative team change, the book won't get axed. Marvel and Joe Q don't have the confidence to cancel on Ed (that goes for any of his titles).

GOOD! LOL

Ed's a great writer and has a very loyal following. He's earned the right to write what he wants.

[Shellhead]

Thanks.

No kidding.

I am a HUGE Brubaker fan but not an Iron Fist fan so I passed on the book when it came out. I have always had a nagging feeling though about it and keep hearing how great it was online and through friends.

I bought 1-9 and then pucked up 10 and 12 (11's on reorder) from my LCS and promptly added the book to my pull list. I don't care how bad it's selling... but now I'm one more added person. If enough people add it a great book won't be in danger.

I finally started buying Iron Fist, too. With some difficulty, I found issues #6, 8-10, and 12 locally. I bought the trade from Amazon, and am currently waiting for Westfield Comics to locate copies of #11 and the Annual. I gave up on issue #7, which apparently didn't advance the story anyway. I was a fan of Iron Fist back in the '70s, but this current run started out a little rough, but it's been great since at least issue #4 or 5.

[matthewaos]

She-Hulk sales are surprisingly too low. I saw somewhere that it went in 90-something position, when it was on 70-something I think. I was a sad surprise, cause I started the book for David, and I like it so far.

I also agree with The Shadow, it would be better if we made a thread about which titles want more support, because they are awesome, but have low sales, like Moon Knight, She-Hulk, etc. And I don't think Iron Fist has so low sales as to cancel the book. Also, Moon Knight sold about 40k something copies in the previous issue, so I don't think it's near cancellation. Some years ago, they canceled Elektra cause she was selling less than 10k, and I read that marvel wanted to cancel whatever book dropped below 10k. This was some time ago though, but what I can't understand is marvel's paranoia of canceling a book with low sales, which paranoia turn fans also paranoid on which book will be.

[Libaax]

I have read many pages of this threads.

I saw people going about only 150 000 being the best selling number and wondering about international numbers.

As a european comic fan i personally find it very lame they dont count world wide sales specially for middle and low selling comics. There is nothing worse than supporting your favorit comics that you know sell well over here thanks to LCS and other comic shops but they still get canceled cause US sales.

There is a big world outside US you know.....

[Expletive Deleted]

As a european comic fan i personally find it very lame they dont count world wide sales specially for middle and low selling comics. There is nothing worse than supporting your favorit comics that you know sell well over here thanks to LCS and other comic shops but they still get canceled cause US sales.I'm sure the comic book companies take the foreign markets into account. These numbers are just from a trade group, unaffiliated with any of the major companies. Nobody actually uses them to make decisions.

[Chino]

i used to worry about this and even avoided books because i thought they wouldnt last. but really, who cares? enjoy it while its out. it is marvel after all, the series might end but the characters always show up in other books, in team books, minis, OGN and eventualy another solo series.

some characters are best in small doses anyways.

now having a vertigo series cancelled or end...that hurts :(

[Croaker]

i used to worry about this and even avoided books because i thought they wouldnt last. but really, who cares? enjoy it while its out. it is marvel after all, the series might end but the characters always show up in other books, in team books, minis, OGN and eventualy another solo series.

some characters are best in small doses anyways.

now having a vertigo series cancelled or end...that hurts :(

I agree 100%. I just read what I enjoy and don't take sales into consideration. I mean, I've been reading comics for years, so a title getting cancelled is just part and parcel of the genre, sort of like retcons, reboots, and really minimal disguises actually protecting one's identity.

[jpk]

Hulk isn't.

He's got one and Herc has a new book with numbering starting at 113.

Oh. I was under the impression that the Herc handoff was temporary and that Hulk would get the book back at some point.

Does Marvel really think Hercules can support an ongoing? If so they are either really optimistic or really naive.

[Croaker]

Oh. I was under the impression that the Herc handoff was temporary and that Hulk would get the book back at some point.

Does Marvel really think Hercules can support an ongoing? If so they are either really optimistic or really naive.

I do think all intentions are for Hulk to re-inherit this title. Otherwise, why continue the numbering?

[Libaax]

I'm sure the comic book companies take the foreign markets into account. These numbers are just from a trade group, unaffiliated with any of the major companies. Nobody actually uses them to make decisions.

I wasnt talking these numbers but that it seem like they go by only US selling numbers.

I have seen monthly numbers many times.

I wonder how the demonoid chart sales would look if it was world wide.

It is frustrating knowing you can buy the trades,monthlies of your favs but that doesnt matter cause you are a fan outside US.

Im sure they care about trades from foreign market but what about the monthly. Would they cancel for example Deadpool/Cable if it had 20-30 K international sales plus US sales number ?

[Expletive Deleted]

Im sure they care about trades from foreign market but what about the monthly?I guess I'm wondering what makes you think they don't care or don't factor it in?Would they cancel for example Deadpool/Cable if it had 20-30 K international sales plus US sales number ?If CABLE & DEADPOOL (for example) gets a 30k bump, then so do a lot of other titles to varying degrees. I think the fact that it was canceled speaks to the theory that it probably didn't get a bump from other markets disproportionately large enough to alter where it fell with respect to other titles and the cancellation line.

[IronKing]

Iron Fist and Nova might not sell the best, but they're amazing books, and pretty much enjoyed across the board.

Books I can see getting canned: Black Panther (stopped pulling around 20), New Exiles (don't see it going past 30), and possibly Moon Knight (doing well now but it's just so...out there lol).

[matthewaos]

I wasnt talking these numbers but that it seem like they go by only US selling numbers.

I have seen monthly numbers many times.

I wonder how the demonoid chart sales would look if it was world wide.

It is frustrating knowing you can buy the trades,monthlies of your favs but that doesnt matter cause you are a fan outside US.

Im sure they care about trades from foreign market but what about the monthly. Would they cancel for example Deadpool/Cable if it had 20-30 K international sales plus US sales number ?

I don't think this will shock anyone, but my LCS owned said that (US) comic books sell in Europe as much as they sell in the US. So in a way they don't care. I mean that means than Europe is a smaller audience, one they should care in a way, but the US is where everything moves.

[Expletive Deleted]

I don't think this will shock anyone, but my LCS owned said that (US) comic books sell in Europe as much as they sell in the US. So in a way they don't care.Right.

If one low seller in the US doubles up in foreign markets, it's pretty likely that every other book, low, high, or medium, does the same. Unless something's disproportionately popular in one market or the other, it doesn't change the relative rankings.