How would you rate the Superman/Batman series ?

[Jack00]

Must have, Read it, Check it or just pass it ? I only browsed through them really quick at my LCS, but they don't have alot of 'em. So i ask here if this serie is worth my time/money hunting for them. Any feedback is appreciated.

[Jack Zodiac]

The first few years with Loeb and McGuinness were pretty fun. Not great comics, by any stretch, but entertaining superhero stories. The past couple years have been horrible, though. I don't even bother checking it out anymore.

[Jack00]

Are they seperated storyline who doesn't really link to everything in the Dc universe ? Or the stories are..."cannon" if i may say ?

[rwe1138]

Are they seperated storyline who doesn't really link to everything in the Dc universe ? Or the stories are..."cannon" if i may say ?

While B/S is set in the DC Universe, it's pretty self-contained. It does it's own thing and isn't really reflected in other series. Basically, it's canon unless something else comes out that says it's not.

[earl]

I've been getting caught up on this series and I am up to issue #43. To me, I think it has been pretty good fun. It is much more like an old 80s superhero book than most of the newer comics.

It doesn't really tie in much at all with the regular Batman or Superman books, but there is a bit of self reference in the story lines, as the recent Darkseid story does reference a couple of the earlier runs. The alien storyline a few issues back was not great, but I liked the one with Darkseid, Bekka and Desaad.

[MattXG]

I loved the Supergirl arc.:D

[Jack00]

Did i post in the wrong board or this serie is just not that popular ?

[WorstThingUS]

It's Superman/Batman and it's been awful since day one where it turned Luthor of all people into a drug addict, continued by setting the painfully low standard for Supergirl's characterization which continues to this day; went off the rails with an incomprehensible storyline involving multiple realities that didn't exist before 52 and continues to troll around at the bottom of the creative ladder with its recent Kryptonite storyline.

Kyle Baker once said that he got the job penciling Spider-man because no matter how bad he was it was still Spider-man and so would still sell no matter what. Putting Superman and Batman is a similar circumstance. No matter how bad it is, it survives on the sheer momentum of the characters.

But the art has been pretty nice, with the exception of Michael Turner. The Carlos Pacheco run was particularly beautiful. Spend your money on some World's Finest reprints.

[brundlefly]

It's Superman/Batman and it's been awful since day one where it turned Luthor of all people into a drug addict, continued by setting the painfully low standard for Supergirl's characterization which continues to this day; went off the rails with an incomprehensible storyline involving multiple realities that didn't exist before 52 and continues to troll around at the bottom of the creative ladder with its recent Kryptonite storyline.

QFT. I've gone off on so many lengthy "Public Enemies is one of the worst DC stories of all time" rants that I didn't want to be a broken record here, so thanks for stepping up to the plate.

In short, Jack00: pass it. There are much better Supes/Bats team-up books to spend your money on, like the aforementioned World's Finest.

[a-spidey]

the start of the book was good imo, but the last year(s) it really gone bad.
I canceled it after the Pacheco run.

[Alexx1]

I like this current arc with Michael Green and Shane Davis. The writing is solid. Davis' art is outstanding to me, especially the last issue (#45) with Aquaman and the underwater panels. The only other Superman/Batman I've read in the past was "The World's Finest" arc and it was alright.

[Jack00]

It's Superman/Batman and it's been awful since day one where it turned Luthor of all people into a drug addict, continued by setting the painfully low standard for Supergirl's characterization which continues to this day; went off the rails with an incomprehensible storyline involving multiple realities that didn't exist before 52 and continues to troll around at the bottom of the creative ladder with its recent Kryptonite storyline.

Kyle Baker once said that he got the job penciling Spider-man because no matter how bad he was it was still Spider-man and so would still sell no matter what. Putting Superman and Batman is a similar circumstance. No matter how bad it is, it survives on the sheer momentum of the characters.

But the art has been pretty nice, with the exception of Michael Turner. The Carlos Pacheco run was particularly beautiful. Spend your money on some World's Finest reprints.

Thx man, that's what i call good feedback. I guess i'll pass it on it for now, maybe i can find them for cheap at a later time, i already have more important singles to hunt for now. Thx to everyone too btw.

[Captain Jim]

Did i post in the wrong board or this serie is just not that popular ?

We usually put the Superman-Batman threads on the Superman board, but that's really pretty arbitrary (though DC also lists it with their Superman titles), which is why I left it here. Tell you what, I'll copy the thread to the Superman forum and you can look there to see if there are any additional comments.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Loeb & McGuiness Superman/Batman comics won the Oscar for Greatest Comics Ever Made by a bunch of 13 year old boys on a sugar rush.

The others are of varying levels of quality.

The way Loeb & McGuiness end their run is quite ingenious. The villains for the overall series could not be more appropriate.

[Syphre Zero]

While B/S is set in the DC Universe, it's pretty self-contained. It does it's own thing and isn't really reflected in other series. Basically, it's canon unless something else comes out that says it's not.

I disagree with this. If anything, Superman/Batman has been a spawning ground for many of the elements that have later come into play in the DC mainstream. Volume 1 alluded to the coming Crisis, Volume 2 brought Supergirl back into the fold and showcased the Third World, Volumes 3 and 4 dealt heavily in aspects of the Multiverse (which up to that point was still only beginning to brew in the DCU). Volume 4 even ended with a conversation between Darkseid and Mxyzptlk discussing Darkseid's importance in Final Crisis (which will be seen in the coming weeks). Since then we've seen similar story elements in the more recent arcs. 5 and 6 weren't fantastic, but the current arc has been pretty good so far (two issues in).

In short, I've enjoyed it both as a team book and as a primer for larger events in DC; it's been consistently better than Richard Donner's wet dream over in Action Comics(now mercifully over).

[WorstThingUS]

I disagree with this. If anything, Superman/Batman has been a spawning ground for many of the elements that have later come into play in the DC mainstream. Volume 1 alluded to the coming Crisis, Volume 2 brought Supergirl back into the fold and showcased the Third World, Volumes 3 and 4 dealt heavily in aspects of the Multiverse (which up to that point was still only beginning to brew in the DCU). Volume 4 even ended with a conversation between Darkseid and Mxyzptlk discussing Darkseid's importance in Final Crisis (which will be seen in the coming weeks). Since then we've seen similar story elements in the more recent arcs. 5 and 6 weren't fantastic, but the current arc has been pretty good so far (two issues in).

But when 3 & 4 were published there was no multiverse to be explored, hence it's "out of continuity" status. There's pretty much been no mention anywhere else of what took place here. And if by pretty good, you mean "ignoring all history of kryptonite as a dangerous radioactive material that Aquaman would actually want out of the ocean and the Supergirl storyline that indicates the superheroes of the world already did gather up all the kryptonite" then yeah, maybe it is.


In short, I've enjoyed it both as a team book and as a primer for larger events in DC; it's been consistently better than Richard Donner's wet dream over in Action Comics(now mercifully over).

Sadly, that story still hasn't ended. No, I'm not kidding.

[RazorBats79]

As I have mentioned before, "Batman begins" had me give DC comics another chance. I'm not knocking DC. I just prefer Marvel and their "real" life based stories and characters. Its what I grew up on.
I did however pick up Superman/Batman 8-13 just because of Turners perfect artwork and Loeb's writing. I enjoyed them, and wish that Turner would do a batman series. Or has he??
So, after enjoying those, I thought I would just pickup from the most recent issue of Super/Bat. This month issue was a story of Superman basically getting high from a different type of Kryptonite. I was left bored and disappointed, and ready to give that issue away, seriously.
I haven't given up on DC books though, some members mentioned Batman: Year One. In light of The Dark Knight coming this summer, I'm gonna go with that.
I guess this is how it is for me, Superman & Batman make GREAT movie characters! Really strong. But as a mainstream, team appearance book? I'm saying no thanks for now.

[Jack Tango]

Lifted from io9.com (http://io9.com/371196/how-to-make-supermanbatman-team+ups-rule-for-a-change):

Any comic called Superman/Batman should really be the most astounding piece of reading material since Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. And yet, sadly, DC's monthly comic about the adventures of its two most famous characters has been a bit dull for a few years now. I've been obsessing, during my rare downtime, about how I would restore Supes/Bats to its former spiffiness, if Dan DiDio was somehow afflicted with brain damage and chose to let me write it. Here are my thoughts.

http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/superman_batman01.jpg

First, a little bit (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics.php?topic=special-reports/worlds-finest1) of history (http://comics.athenaguides.com/?p=154) of the Superman/Batman teamups. The two first joined together in 1952, and quickly learned each other's secret identities. Their monthly teamup comic, World's Finest, lasted until the mid-1980s. They were best friends, and their stories often had a sort of boys' clubhouse feel, with Robin along for the ride. Occasionally a girl like Supergirl or Batgirl would want to join the club. Or either Superman would get a new "best friend," leaving Batman to feel sad and rejected. Or some mean boys, like the Composite Superman or Anti-Batman and Anti-Superman, would show up and ruin everything. But the stories would always end with the club intact again.


http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/superman_batman05.jpg

And then in the mid-1980s, Frank Miller and John Byrne came up with the idea of making Superman and Batman uneasy allies, who didn't trust each other. Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns ends with the two slugging it out, and Byrne's Superman: The Man Of Steel has the young Superman meeting the unsavory vigilante Batman for the first time. Batman thinks Superman's a callow boy scout, and Superman disapproves of Batman's violent methods. This is the one where Batman tells Superman that he's implanted a deadly bomb in "an innocent" that will go off if Superman tries to grab Batman... and then it turns out the bomb is actually in Batman himself, which means Batman is an innocent. I keep waiting for Superman to pat Batman on the back or brush against him accidentally. (Why couldn't Batman have just implanted the bomb in a chihuahua? Chihuahuas are people too. But maybe Batman doesn't believe chihuahuas are ever innocent.) In fact, there are approximately 1,000 DC comics from the late 1980s where Superman says that he disapproves of Batman's methods, before teaming up with him.


http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/Superman_Batman_37_800x600.jpg

Now, the two are back to being friends, more or less, although Superman/Batman always shows that they have very different perspectives by giving us thought captions from both of them. Superman is bright and optimistic, Batman is dark and brooding. So occasionally, Superman will think to himself, "Wow, Bruce is so dark and brooding." And Batman will think, "Oh Clark, I could never be as optimistic and bright as you are." (It's all about the first names nowadays.) And now DC is working on a weekly Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman team-up comic (http://dailypop.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/kurt-busiek-writes-dc-comics-trinity-plus-other-news/), written by Kurt Busiek.

So in a nutshell, the dynamic between Batman and Superman has always been a tad cartoonish and oversimplified, based on whatever the prevailing version of Batman has been at the time. (Fun caped crusader, grim 'n' gritty avenger, or paranoid-but-brilliant member of the superhero family.) Superman hasn't changed nearly as much as Batman has.


http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/Superman_Batman_25_1024x768.jpg

So here's how I'd make the dynamic between Superman and Batman more interesting: I'd turn them into Lethal Weapon.


Superman is the cautious one, the straight arrow who does everything by the book despite (or because of) his almost limitless power. Batman is the crazy, out-of-control risktaker who keeps dragging Superman into situations he's not equipped for. Batman is the guy who sends Superman and himself diving into a black hole on a spaceship with one dud engine. He's the one who drags Superman and himself into a nest of trolls, whose magic weapons can hack Superman to pieces. He seems to make impulsive, rash decisions, but always turns out to have a plan. Sort of.


And yes, I know that since Grant Morrison's JLA Batman has been portrayed as the uber-control freak who always plans twenty steps ahead in every situation. But he's also the non-powered guy who dresses up in a bat costume, with his face unprotected, and jumps off rooftops into gunfire every night of the week. He's the crazed, half-suicidal Mel Gibson to Superman's Danny Glover.

Every Superman/Batman storyline should start with Superman being totally on top of things as usual, crushing a rogue giant robot with one hand while using his heat vision to stop a falling satellite from crashing on a populated area. And maybe using his super-breath to avert a tsunami at the same time. And then suddenly, Batman comes zipping up in his Bat-plane and is like, "time to go, boy scout!" Superman starts to protest, but he knows Batman only resorts to asking for his help when it's a serious problem. The next thing he knows, he's lost control over his superpowers and Batman is sending the two of them in a tailspin into a magical soul-eating volcano. "This volcano is connected to a crime that happened in Gotham City, which means it's MINE," Batman explains helpfully.


Instead of looking at Batman and thinking, "I don't approve of his methods," or "He's my pal," or "Bruce, why are you so grim and dark?" Superman should be shouting "Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce! What have you gotten me into this time?" at the top of his super-lungs, while Batman cackles.

[HaroldAllnut]

Instead of looking at Batman and thinking, "I don't approve of his methods," or "He's my pal," or "Bruce, why are you so grim and dark?" Superman should be shouting "Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce! What have you gotten me into this time?" at the top of his super-lungs, while Batman cackles.

Jack, you had me until right about here.

[Jack Tango]

Jack, you had me until right about here.

See, now that's the part I liked the most. :-)

But it wasn't me, it's from i09.com. Accolades or dismissives their way, s'il vous plait.

[TMM Writes Lego]

Must have, Read it, Check it or just pass it ? I only browsed through them really quick at my LCS, but they don't have alot of 'em. So i ask here if this serie is worth my time/money hunting for them. Any feedback is appreciated.
It was really good writting but when it came to vol 2 the art got bad. The first guy who did the art, I think his name is Ed was the best

[TMM Writes Lego]

It was really good writting but when it came to vol 2 the art got bad. The first guy who did the art, I think his name is Ed was the best

vol 1 was the best

[d newton]

It's Superman/Batman and it's been awful since day one where it turned Luthor of all people into a drug addict, continued by setting the painfully low standard for Supergirl's characterization which continues to this day; went off the rails with an incomprehensible storyline involving multiple realities that didn't exist before 52 and continues to troll around at the bottom of the creative ladder with its recent Kryptonite storyline.

Besides Cir-El & Darkseid getting jobbed, how is Superman/Batman awful?

[TMM Writes Lego]

Lex isnt a drug adict!!!! What the heck!! He takes a stariod shock thingy where he injects, its like bane's in a way. Its like as if he turns mad and impulsive.

[rZi]

Although i am reading the current K storyline (i forget why this interested me) but i mean other than this...i dropped the book after the inital loeb/turner issues . Im kinda thinking i may give it another shot as it seems to be on the up...


knowing my luck im wrong

[WorstThingUS]

Lex isnt a drug adict!!!! What the heck!! He takes a stariod shock thingy where he injects, its like bane's in a way. Its like as if he turns mad and impulsive.

Every single depiction of Lex Luthor ever shows he is the last person in the world who would alter his mental state with drugs, because his mind is his greatest weapon. Horrible, horrible misstep for Jeph Loeb.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm all for it if we eventually get a scene where Superman and Batman are slumped over on a bench in the cave saying, "I'm getting too old for this shit."

I don't know if this approach would fit modern comic Batman, but it's a fun enough idea that I'd like to see it done someplace. It actually seems like something right up All-Star Batman's alley.


SEAN

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

Good at first, some of the early Loeb storylines are fun stuff! Would definitely recommend you pick up the first four trade paperbacks. Lately it's been in the dumps, although this new storyline with Superman and Batman finally trying to rid the world of kryptonite forever has some promise!

[Jack Tango]

Thank you! That's two of us in agreement...

That should be enough for a write-in campaign, yes?

[moonlight_night78]

I would love to see that take, but only if Superman says "I'm getting too old for this ...."

[Rahul]

The thought of Batman cackling disturbs me..but other than that I'd not mind a Bendis written tale encompassing that, or even a Greg Pak one....

[filthysize]

Yeah, I'm totally down for this. It would be a great All-Star World's Finest, but even without the cackling I think it could be done. Instead of batshit crazy, Batman could just have a really morbid sense of humor.

[Beria]

I've only read the first two trades. I really liked the first one. Which was kind of a surprising, because I've never cared for McGuinnes art before, and Loeb's writing usually leaves me cold. But they both did a great job on this one.

The second trade was just awful. Michael Turner has to be one of the worst artists working in comics. And in this story Loeb's writing was back to normal, in other words boring.

[Solaris01]

I'm loving it lately!

Loved issues 44 and 46,

Supes: "stupid Batman." Hahahaha, funny! :D

Seriously, I'm enjoying the characterizations of Supes and Bats a lot.

I haven't read the annual yet, but can't wait.

[Bradpinder]

I just picked up the recent arc with the 44 45 46, and I loved it. The art is great and the writing is too. And in the latest arc Superman being 'high' as Red Arrow pointed out (which is funny to begin with) was alot of fun, but the one point that got me, which I thought was cool, was when Superman mentioned that his experence made him connect with people who use to seek a release. I liked that point cause well he can't get drunk, or high, recreation mind bending is rather off limits to him.

[king911]

is this series worth checking out?

[Batman was taken]

I personally enjoy it, but I don't think it's exactly a well-received title around these parts....

[Scrubz]

Jeph Loeb's run (1-25) found in trades 1-4 are a lot of fun and each one features great artwork. The fifth trade (28-33) I haven't read, but I hear it was not very good. Issues 34-36 were the setup for the current Metal Men series, but the issues were confusing. Batman and Superman didn't know who the Metal Men were? Really? Alan Burnett's arc (37-42) was pretty good, seemed to draw a little influence from Cosmic Odyssey. The current arc by David Green has been entertaining so far, it also features some pretty sweet art by Shane Davis.

Overall the series is considered pointless, but I believe it has been a lot of fun to read. Just don't expect them to be the greatest stories ever. The Annuals are good too.

[Manta]

I don't mind reading Superman/Batman, I find this title quite enjoyable. My criticism is about two issues:

1. Kind of difficult to understand how the storyline is within the DC continuity

2. Storylines are way too stretched, they could end in two issues at most.

[Manta]

Double Post!

[Jack Tango]

Are we up to five now?! We should start a group! Superman Batman As Gibson Glover, or SBAGG for short!

Hmm. Something about that doesn't sound appealing.... *shrug*

[JackBurton01]

I like the title most of te time, but I like buddy comics.

[md62]

Loved the first 19 issues by Loeb. Disliked his last arc which was 20-25. Dropped the book when they started having a different writer w/ every arc. The buzz on the internet has been negative until recently.The most recent arc (which I think started w/ # 44) has been written by Michael Green & beatifully illustrated by Shane Davis. I will get this arc in trade format. If Green & Davis stay on the book I may add the book back unto my pull list.

[Alexx1]

I think the book is full of AWESOMENESS with Green and Davis. Shane's artwork is AMAZING! I say check it out. That's really the only way you'll know if it's for you.

[Solaris01]

is this series worth checking out?

Yes. I haven't read it all, I started with issue #44, and I really like it.

And yeah, the art is very good. Supes and Bats remind me of Routh and Bale respectively, which is great to me.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

While both Loeb and Green's stuff has an infectious goofy fun to it, everything in between these two was so wretched and unreadable, I'm surprised DC didn't cancel the book.

[WorstThingUS]

I personally enjoy it, but I don't think it's exactly a well-received title around these parts....

If not for Supergirl and Countdown, it would be DC's worst book. And don't let anyone fool you. It's always been bad. Pretty artwork (with the exception of Michael Turner), but a horribly written book.

[Hulkamaniac]

I pick it up, enjoyable read and artwork since issue one IMHO.

[nuclearman]

I'm loving batman / superman ... action comics i've dropped due to non enjoyment.