questions about final crisis villains

[spidervenom]

I know that Libra, the human flame and Darkseid are confirmed as villains.
But what about Monarch and Supes prime, are they confirmed to be villains as well or are they just involved in countdown.

[botch]

Could be a surprise, not many people thought Superboy Prime would end up the mega villain of Infinite Crisis.

[Will.S]

I know that Libra, the human flame and Darkseid are confirmed as villains.
But what about Monarch and Supes prime, are they confirmed to be villains as well or are they just involved in countdown.
I haven't heard much about them after their battle in Countdown. I don't think their appearance is likely but I do know that Mongul and Braniac will factor in as well.

[Laughing Mask]

lord havoc & the extremists are supposed to play a part.

though there mini has been "meh"

[Will.S]

lord havoc & the extremists are supposed to play a part.

though there mini has been "meh"
They are?

I thought they died in that explosion along with the rest of them.

[Laughing Mask]

They are?

I thought they died in that explosion along with the rest of them.

well they are still alive in there mini series.

[Will.S]

well they are still alive in there mini series.
I think their mini series takes place prior to the Countdown stuff where their fight climaxed.

[Buried Alien]

It's too bad that the Anti-Monitor was put out of commission earlier this year in SINESTRO CORPS WAR and likely won't be back until at least next year's BLACKEST NIGHT. What's a CRISIS without the Anti-Monitor (even if only in dead body cameo form)?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Laughing Mask]

I think their mini series takes place prior to the Countdown stuff where their fight climaxed.

it's still "meh"

[Sean Walsh]

It's too bad that the Anti-Monitor was put out of commission earlier this year in SINESTRO CORPS WAR and likely won't be back until at least next year's BLACKEST NIGHT. What's a CRISIS without the Anti-Monitor (even if only in dead body cameo form)?[/COLOR]

Am I the only one curious to see if Darkseid's defeat in FINAL CRISIS comes from.........some outside interference? ;)

coughcoughpaybacksabitccoughcough

[HaroldAllnut]

Could be a surprise, not many people thought Superboy Prime would end up the mega villain of Infinite Crisis.

I hope they kill him, de-power him, or find some way for him not to be so annoying. Nobody chokes Mr. Mxyzptlk and gets away with it!

[Slaughter]

Am I the only one curious to see if Darkseid's defeat in FINAL CRISIS comes from.........some outside interference? ;)

coughcoughpaybacksabitccoughcough

LMAO! Payback's a bitch, indeed! It would't surprise me if Darkseid was awakened by Desaad just to see a Anti-Matter wall speeding towards Apokolips...

[GRANT!]

I think Klarion should be the main bad guy for Final Crisis. Seven Soldiers set him up as a major power.

[GRANT!]

I hope they kill him, de-power him, or find some way for him not to be so annoying. Nobody chokes Mr. Mxyzptlk and gets away with it!

Not to mention kicking Krypto. There should be a picture of Superman Prime next to the word douche bag in the dictionary.

[EZMOHR]

I think Klarion should be the main bad guy for Final Crisis. Seven Soldiers set him up as a major power.

You know, I know Klarion won't be the big bad of Final Crisis, but damn if it wouldn't make sense and be awesome.

I'm guessing Orion, Mr. Miracle, and Darkseid will be the main villians of Final Crisis. Don't ask me why I think Orion...I just see it happening that way. Darkseid and Mr. Miracle seem pretty good bets for me right now.

To be honest with you, I wish my total geek idea, send me in a coma, I probablly be the only person who loved it idead from INFINITE CRISIS woud come to pass and the main villians of Final Crisis would be Ozymandius using Doctor Manhatten to take over the Multiverse to make it better.

[GRANT!]

You know, I know Klarion won't be the big bad of Final Crisis, but damn if it wouldn't make sense and be awesome.

Probably not. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in it though.

I'm guessing Orion, Mr. Miracle, and Darkseid will be the main villians of Final Crisis. Don't ask me why I think Orion...I just see it happening that way. Darkseid and Mr. Miracle seem pretty good bets for me right now.

Is Mr. Miracle evil now?

To be honest with you, I wish my total geek idea, send me in a coma, I probablly be the only person who loved it idead from INFINITE CRISIS woud come to pass and the main villians of Final Crisis would be Ozymandius using Doctor Manhatten to take over the Multiverse to make it better.

Gives something else for Moore to bitch at DC and Morrison about.

[EZMOHR]

Probably not. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in it though.



Is Mr. Miracle evil now?



Gives something else for Moore to bitch at DC and Morrison about.

Moore bitching is like the sun rising now for me. Screw him if he can't be happy people like him and want to use his brilliant stuff.

Mr. Miracle hasn't gone full on evil yet...but it's kind of going that way. It's either gonna be him, Darkseid, and Orion as the baddies for awhile, or Mr. Miracle is gonna kill Orion very, very soon.

[Laughing Mask]

also anybody else thing lord havoc & the extremists is "meh"?

[Phoney Bone]

Moore bitching is like the sun rising now for me. Screw him if he can't be happy...


Amen, brother!

Alan Moore crying about Watchmen has become as tiresome as Frank Miller crying about Elektra. These characters were created in the 80's as work-for-hire with full knowledge of the controversies surrounding Superman's creation, Jack Kirby's art ownership and the like. Moore and Miller were both seasoned pros who knew damn well that the characters they created would belong DC and Marvel.

DC should be able to whatever they want with the Watchmen characters.... INCLUDING using them in Final Crisis if they so choose.

Ozymandias would be the PERFECT bad guy for the story.



Along other lines: Since Final Crisis is the third installment of the Identity/Infinite/Final trilogy, there should be some sort of closure between Ray Palmer and Jean Lorning.

[4thHorseman]

also anybody else thing lord havoc & the extremists is "meh"?

I gave up after issue 3. It was going nowhere, the art on book 3 was crap, and I just got bored with it.

[Paul Newell]

Amen, brother!

Alan Moore crying about Watchmen has become as tiresome as Frank Miller crying about Elektra. These characters were created in the 80's as work-for-hire with full knowledge of the controversies surrounding Superman's creation, Jack Kirby's art ownership and the like. Moore and Miller were both seasoned pros who knew damn well that the characters they created would belong DC and Marvel.

DC should be able to whatever they want with the Watchmen characters.... INCLUDING using them in Final Crisis if they so choose.

Ozymandias would be the PERFECT bad guy for the story.



Along other lines: Since Final Crisis is the third installment of the Identity/Infinite/Final trilogy, there should be some sort of closure between Ray Palmer and Jean Lorning.
Actually they aren't exactly work for hire. A deal was struck that, 12 months after DC had no longer produced anything Watchmen related, the copyright would revert to Moore & Gibbons.

Unfortunately, at that time, no-one knew just how popular the series would be and trade programs were virtually non-existent at the time it was released.

Technically Watchmen doesn't belong to DC at all. If it ever goes out of print, ownership reverts to Moore & Gibbons. V for Vendetta has the same deal.

[Phoney Bone]

I did not know that about Watchmen.

Learn sumthin' new everyday, I suppose.:) :o

I'm also a bit suprised that a major company like DC would be willing to give away that much ownership (such as it was) in the 80's.

[EZMOHR]

I've always wondered that about Watchmen as well, and I've never got a straight answer.

Ah well, I guess my nerdgasm will never happen. Even though as I read the first issue of Infinite Crisis a couple years back, for a couple of pages there, I thought it was gonna happen.

[EZMOHR]

Amen, brother!

Alan Moore crying about Watchmen has become as tiresome as Frank Miller crying about Elektra. These characters were created in the 80's as work-for-hire with full knowledge of the controversies surrounding Superman's creation, Jack Kirby's art ownership and the like. Moore and Miller were both seasoned pros who knew damn well that the characters they created would belong DC and Marvel.

DC should be able to whatever they want with the Watchmen characters.... INCLUDING using them in Final Crisis if they so choose.

Ozymandias would be the PERFECT bad guy for the story.


Along other lines: Since Final Crisis is the third installment of the Identity/Infinite/Final trilogy, there should be some sort of closure between Ray Palmer and Jean Lorning.

To be honest with you, I always wanted that to happen. But I would just wnat Ozy and Doc in it. And, a couple of years ago, another person here said they wanted it to be revealed Darkseid was always the Monitor from the Watchman universe. I would just run with that idea for Final Crisis.

[Paul Newell]

I did not know that about Watchmen.

Learn sumthin' new everyday, I suppose.:) :o

I'm also a bit suprised that a major company like DC would be willing to give away that much ownership (such as it was) in the 80's.
I presume it was for much the same reasons that George Lucas kept ownership of Star Wars...Alan Moore had already made it in the industry thanks to Swamp Thing, but DC management didn't think a mini-series would have the longevity of a regular series. They probably thought it would make a bit of money and would then die away to nothing so they let him have the deal he wanted to keep him happy. Merchandise was only a small side business to comics than and the Watchmen trade, as well as the Dark Knight Returns trade, pretty much kickstarted the trade paperback part of the industry.

The only difference between Lucas and Moore, however, is when the rights would go to the creator. Lucas got them from the beginning and raked in the cash, DC would hand them back at the end, but the end never came and so they are still raking in the cash.

[CBikle]

DC should be able to whatever they want with the Watchmen characters.... INCLUDING using them in Final Crisis if they so choose.

Ozymandias would be the PERFECT bad guy for the story.


No offense, but that really would be an awful idea.

Although it'd be funny if Monarch was revealed to be Dr. Manhattan (who was based on Captain Atom, who was originally supposed to be Monarch).

Actually, that's an awful idea as well.

[botch]

Amazingly Alan Moore hasn't complained about Sinestro Corps War and the use of Sodam Yat. you know why? because he thought it was awesome.

Int. Alan Moore's house -- Night

Alan Moore sits on a chair by a fireplace reading Green Lantern Corps #17.

Alan Moore
This is f&^$king awesome!

[Laughing Mask]

I gave up after issue 3. It was going nowhere, the art on book 3 was crap, and I just got bored with it.

i gave up on issue 4.

i mean story wise all they were doing was sitting around twiddling their thumbs!

and they slow things down even more with the origin story's!



and what kind of name is Tracer?.......................

[Sean Walsh]

I'm also a bit suprised that a major company like DC would be willing to give away that much ownership (such as it was) in the 80's.

You'd think the corporate entertainment world woulda learned something from George Lucas.... ;)

[Choppa]

Along other lines: Since Final Crisis is the third installment of the Identity/Infinite/Final trilogy, there should be some sort of closure between Ray Palmer and Jean Lorning.

Wasn't that resolved at the end of 52? I'm talking about when they were reunited as ghosts.

I like that idea though. It was be a neat way to bring everything full circle if the end had something to do with them. Or maybe even something from the start of the build to IC?

[Sean Walsh]

Wasn't that resolved at the end of 52? I'm talking about when they were reunited as ghosts.

I like that idea though. It was be a neat way to bring everything full circle if the end had something to do with them. Or maybe even something from the start of the build to IC?

Erm.........that was Ralph Dibny and Sue Dibny. He meant the Atom and Eclipsoette.

[spidervenom]

Do any of you think that per degaton, despero and ultra humanite will be in final crisis, because of their apperances in the lightning saga and booster gold.

[DirtyHarrington]

So Justice League of America #111 for Libra and Detective Comics #274 for The Human Flame? Those are there only appearances? Has Morrison mentioned any other super obscure characters he's going to be crowbarring into his EPIC TALE?

After reading and sorta-enjoying the latest Batman stuff of his, I went back and found the Zur-En-Arrh and Robin Dies At Dawn stories, read them, ENJOYED THEM, and then re-read Batmorrison and found it vaaaaaastly more enjoyable. Which is why I'm trying to read all this old stuff BEFORE I get to Final Crisis, so I'm not quite as freaking confused. It'd be nice to GET a Morrison story on my first run through. >_>

[Sean Walsh]

It'd be nice to GET a Morrison story on my first run through. >_>

Then you would become a god, sir.



Then you would become a god....


:p

[Will.S]

What I'm genuinely curious about now regarding the FC villains is how the hell Darkseid is he going to take on the rest of the DCU?

I mean, sure he has the virus out there and Jimmy has the new gods souls/powers whatever but he has absolutely nothing else to back him up. All of the New Gods are dead, Apokolips is destroyed, and he's all thats left. He better have a new game plan that lets him come back into the "5th world" the rest of his fellow villain New Gods and a new Apokolips.

[brundlefly]

What I'm genuinely curious about now regarding the FC villains is how the hell Darkseid is he going to take on the rest of the DCU?

I mean, sure he has the virus out there and Jimmy has the new gods souls/powers whatever but he has absolutely nothing else to back him up. All of the New Gods are dead, Apokolips is destroyed, and he's all thats left. He better have a new game plan that lets him come back into the "5th world" the rest of his fellow villain New Gods and a new Apokolips.

Could Darkseid be playing a role in Salvation Run? I seem to recall a villainous presence watching from the shadows in the first issue and there was some speculation that it was him. Darkseid could appropriate "Hell Planet," turn it into his new Apokalips, then use the D-list villains (after Lex, Joker, et al escape back to Earth) as the raw materials for his new Parademons. That would give him back a base of operations and a supply of cannon fodder, the two things that he's lost during Countdown/Death of the New Gods.

[Phoney Bone]

Now that Libra is confirmed as a main villain (or MacGuffin villain to lead into the confrontation with the real Big Bad... more than likely), it will provide another "full-circle" moment in the Identity/Infinite/Final trilogy.

The satellite headquarters of the original Injustice Gang (lead by Libra) was the community hangout for the DCU villains in Identity Crisis.

I love neat connections like that.

I'm also hoping that Morrison and Jones do a better "Villain War" with Libra's army than the pathetic battle with Luthor's army in Infinite Crisis.

[Sean Walsh]

Could Darkseid be playing a role in Salvation Run? I seem to recall a villainous presence watching from the shadows in the first issue and there was some speculation that it was him. Darkseid could appropriate "Hell Planet," turn it into his new Apokalips, then use the D-list villains (after Lex, Joker, et al escape back to Earth) as the raw materials for his new Parademons. That would give him back a base of operations and a supply of cannon fodder, the two things that he's lost during Countdown/Death of the New Gods.

1) That was clearly Darkseid and Desaad watching the villains at the end of #1. The mysteries of this planet have yet to be fully explored, but I'm certain they will.

2) The guys attacking the Rogues at the start of #1 were (IIRC) the same guys on that planet Lonar was on in BLUE BEETLE, and are basically dead ringers for Devilance the Pursuer.

[brundlefly]

1) That was clearly Darkseid and Desaad watching the villains at the end of #1.

Thanks, Sean; I was drawing a total blank on details about the "mysterious observers" from SR issue one, but figured it was Darkseid & Desaad.

*sigh* Poor Desaad. RIP, my sadistic friend. He's the only member of Darkseid's now-deceased entourage that I'm going to miss.

[Sean Walsh]

*sigh* Poor Desaad. RIP, my sadistic friend. He's the only member of Darkseid's now-deceased entourage that I'm going to miss.

Until he comes back in FINAL CRISIS, in whatever new form Grant's going to bring the New Gods back in....