The 25 Greatest Western Movies

[Slam_Bradley]

Since the discussion on the War and SF movies has died down, I thought I'd give this a whirl.


Some rules:
1. You must have seen a movie to eliminate it.
2. This is the GREATEST, not "favorite", or "most influential". Just as a standard...
3. Try to be as specific as possible in narrowing down your choices.
4. You must DEFEND your choices. The better an argument you make, and the more articulate and detailed you can be, the better the list will end up being!
5. An addition (or deletion) will be made when FIVE people vote for (or against) it. If something you approve of is deleted, or something you diasgree with is added, you are free to argue for or against. But you will have to out-vote the intial FIVE. Easy enough!

And...I offer as a starting point, gleaned from a number of sources (but probably reflecting my personal biases).

Blazing Saddles
Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
Fort Apache
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
High Noon
The Magnificent Seven
A Man Called Horse
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
My Darling Clementine
Once Upon a Time in the West
Outlaw Josie Wales
The Ox-Bow Incident
Red River
Ride the High Country
Rio Bravo
The Searchers
Shane
The Shootist
Stagecoach
The Tall T
Tombstone
Unforgiven
The Wild Bunch
Winchester ‘73

[moebius]

Remove: Tombstone. Other than Val Kilmer's signature performance, I watched this again a couple of years ago and was disappointed by the weak direction and pacing, especially toward the end. It did not age well.

Add: 3:10 to Yuma (2007). Called "the best Western since Unforgiven" for a reason. All of the characters are deeply nuanced and flawed. Crowe's villain is menacing (especially listening to the sound he does with a fork), but his actions suggest conflicting motivations and a willingness to do a good thing for decent people. Bale's rancher is fundamentally decent, but not above using his situation for personal gain. Great movie.

[moebius]

And, since we've had a discussion in both the SF and War threads, I'll pre-emptively start it here: What is a Western? To me, No Country for Old Men looks and feels an aweful lot like a Western. And what about There Will Be Blood? Do Westerns require sixguns, saloons and horses, or are they a setting (the "West") and aesthetic (rugged individualism and questioned morality)?

[Croaker]

I'd have to include Hondo somewhere. Also, could Jeremiah Johnson be considered a Western?

[EZMOHR]

I have to vote for The Outlaw Josey Wales as my favorite western of all time and the best western of all time. Second on my list would be Once Upon a Time in the West, and Third would be The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean.


And how can you have a list of greatest westerns ever, and not have Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Say what you will, but the movie is one of the most identifiable westerns ever. Also, no True Grit.

And as for a modern western, The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.

[BeastieRunner]

If TV Shows counted, I'd add Brisco County, Jr. to the list. :)

[EZMOHR]

TV movies should count....cause the best acted, perfect Western where everything works of all time is Lonesome Dove. Bar None.

[moebius]

And how can you have a list of greatest westerns ever, and not have Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Say what you will, but the movie is one of the most identifiable westerns ever. Also, no True Grit.


Oh, crap. Verily, Butch and Sundance should be on there.

[rick]

I would lose A Man Called Horse, just because it was dull, and I would also take off The Ox_Bow Incident because while it is a very good film, I wouldn't count it as one of the best.

I would replace them with Once Upon a Time in The West and Little Big Man.

Big Man because it is one of the best American films of the 1960's and certainly one of the best "Indian" movies ever made.

And Once Upon a Time simply because it is the greatest film by the greatest director of westerns ever.

EDIT: And it seems that I'm either blind of dsylexic, because there's West sitting right up there all ready.

[Croaker]

I would lose A Man Called Horse, just because it was dull, and I would also take off The Ox_Bow Incident because while it is a very good film, I wouldn't count it as one of the best.

I would replace them with Once Upon a Time in The West and Little Big Man.

Big Man because it is one of the best American films of the 1960's and certainly one of the best "Indian" movies ever made.

And Once Upon a Time simply because it is the greatest film by the greatest director of westerns ever.

EDIT: And it seems that I'm either blind of dsylexic, because there's West sitting right up there all ready.

Little Big Man should be on there, I agree.

[Slam_Bradley]

Add: 3:10 to Yuma (2007). Called "the best Western since Unforgiven" for a reason. All of the characters are deeply nuanced and flawed. Crowe's villain is menacing (especially listening to the sound he does with a fork), but his actions suggest conflicting motivations and a willingness to do a good thing for decent people. Bale's rancher is fundamentally decent, but not above using his situation for personal gain. Great movie.

I'll re-post my thoughts on 3:10 to Yuma from a while back. I find it to be a deeply flawed film.

So I watched 3:10 to Yuma Saturday evening. I'm trying to decide how I feel about it. The problem is, there are at least three ways to look at this movie. First, is on it's own merits. Second, is as a remake of the 1950s version. Third is as an adaptation of Elmore Leonard's short-story.

As a film, on it's own merits, it was pretty good. The photography was beautiful. The performances were almost uniformly great. It was one of the best westerns since Unforgiven. The problem with that statement is that there haven't been a lot of quality westerns since Unforgiven. The problem was with the script. Not with the story...there was nothing wrong with Elmore Leonard's story (but I'll get to that in a bit). There was just a lot of stupid stuff in the script that cumulatively bugged the shit out of me.

I didn't mind the addition of Peter Fonda's character. In fact I kind of liked him. Unfortunately, not even The Terminator could have gone through the kind of damage he did and still kept going. That he left the Doc's table after having the bullet removed was simply ludicrous.

The relationship between Bale's character and his elder son didn't ring true. This was a 14 year old boy raised in comparative isolation. While his father wasn't successful, he had been in the war and was struggling to support his family. The disdain his son had for him didn't feel right given the time period and the situation.

Bale's abilities to do olympic level running and jumping on a wooden leg was ridiculous.

The ending made no sense. None. Sorry...you're not going to be able to justify it. Elmore Leonard agrees with me on this.

It's been a while since I've seen the 1957 version. It was sparer than the new version. It used more of Leonard's writing, added fewer characters, was more true to the interplay betwee the protagonists in the hotel room, which was the focus for Leonard. Van Heflin vs. Christian Bale is about a wash. But Russell Crowe is no Glenn Ford. Yes, I'll cop to the fact that Crowe can act circles around Ford. But for pure screen presence...especially in a western, Ford was one of the biggest.

The main problem with both movies is that Leonard's short story is so damn brilliant. It clocks in at 15 pages, but it is a 15 page battle of wits. Any expansion, and an expansion is necessary to make this a feature length movie, simply detracts from the taut interplay between the two characters. This is as good a western as I've ever read...and I've read quite a few.

Overall, as a movie I found the new version of 3:10 to Yuma to be good but very flawed. As a remake, it was no better than the original and in many respects failed to live up to its merits. As an adaptation of Leonard...it was a dismal failure.

[Syzygy]

Yes, Little Big Man deserves a spot on the list.

I'm also fond of the Deadwood series, although not a movie.

[ultramandingo]

.......comanche blanco 1968 shatner "stars" in this italian western as twins - one white the other an indian - all genius

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/7837.jpg

[rick]

.......comanche blanco 1968 shatner "stars" in this italian western as twins - one white the other an indian - all genius

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/7837.jpg


I must see this film.

[Julusnc]

Since the discussion on the War and SF movies has died down, I thought I'd give this a whirl.




And...I offer as a starting point, gleaned from a number of sources (but probably reflecting my personal biases).

Blazing Saddles
Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
Fort Apache
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
High Noon
The Magnificent Seven
A Man Called Horse
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
My Darling Clementine
Once Upon a Time in the West
Outlaw Josie Wales
The Ox-Bow Incident
Red River
Ride the High Country
Rio Bravo
The Searchers
Shane
The Shootist
Stagecoach
The Tall T
Tombstone
Unforgiven
The Wild Bunch
Winchester ‘73

I have to agree with 99.9% of your choices.I would replace The Shootist with Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

[rick]

I have to agree with 99.9% of your choices.I would replace The Shootist with Treasure of the Sierra Madre.



The Treasure of the Sierra Madre isn't really a western though is it?

[Siddon]

I haven't seen that many Westerns, I find the genre to be fairly boring but I would consider the Treasure of Sierra Madre a western as would No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood and Brokeback Mountain. They may not be pure westerns by they deal with the same themes and I would say they are closer to the Western Genre then any other My list of 25 would be

3:10 to Yuma
Assaination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
Blazing Saddles
Brokeback Mountain
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
City Slickers
Days of Heaven
Good the Bad the Ugly
High Noon
Magnificant Seven
Man who shot Liberty Vance
No Country for Old Men
Once Upon a Time in the West
Outlaw Josie Whales
Quick and the Dead
Pale Rider
Proposition
Red River
Ravenous
Searchers
Shane
There Will be Blood
Tombstone
Treasure of Sierra Madre
Unforgiven

[jesse_custer]

Can we stop putting comedies in these types of lists? Blazing Saddles being my point.

Take out Saddles and give the spot to a film that deserves it, like The Cowboys or Lonesome Dove.

[EZMOHR]

Can we stop putting comedies in these types of lists? Blazing Saddles being my point.

Take out Saddles and give the spot to a film that deserves it, like The Cowboys or Lonesome Dove.

Sorry, but Blazing Saddles is very desrving of being on this list. In fact, I would say it is one of the most recognizable westerns by most movie watchers ever.

Blazing Saddles deals with most themes present in western movies and shows how funny they actually are.

But I agree Lonesome Dove should be on top of the Top 25...not The Cowboys though. A solid movie, but not Top 25...especially when no True Grit is in the Top 25.

[Chiasm]

I'll re-post my thoughts on 3:10 to Yuma from a while back. I find it to be a deeply flawed film.

I've never read the original short story but I agree with the rest of your assessment.

[EZMOHR]

3:10 to Yuma 07 was an enjoyable movie, but I thinking people are making it out to be more than it is. It was enjoyable, but it did nothing of note that advanced the Western from where it is. 5 years from now, people won't remember why they thought it was great, or what about it was even memorable. A good movie that is gone from you 5 minutes after viewing.

[jesse_custer]

First, There Will Be Blood is almost unrecognizable from the western genre. It's a drama, first and foremost.

Second, if any new westerns must be on the list, I would support "No Country for Old Men" and "The Proposition." "3:10 to Yuma" is a great film but not one of the best.

Third, it doesn't matter if people recognize "Blazing Saddles" as a western, much like it doesn't matter if people think "Dr. Strangelove" is a war film. These are comedies, man. They are not concerned about genre conventions and genre innovation but rather about getting people to laugh. This goal is what completely separates comedy from other genres: getting people to laugh. Let's not confuse terms here just because one particular film decided to spoof a western.

[rick]

Third, it doesn't matter if people recognize "Blazing Saddles" as a western, much like it doesn't matter if people think "Dr. Strangelove" is a war film. These are comedies, man. They are not concerned about genre conventions and genre innovation but rather about getting people to laugh. This goal is what completely separates comedy from other genres: getting people to laugh. Let's not confuse terms here just because one particular film decided to spoof a western.


So does that mean films such as Support Your Local Sheriff, Cat Ballou and Goin’ South aren’t actually westerns?

[rick]

I would take off Winchester 73 since in my opinion it is a fun movie, but nothing original, nothing new. It could be one of a dozen from that same era.

How about we replace it, with Macabe & Mrs Miller?

Robert Altman's tale of pimps and whores on the frontier with Warren Beatty and Julie Christie capture the rawness of what the west just might have been. Plus a young Keith Carradine finds himself in the most unfair of gunfights.

It's a really great film, one of Altmans best.

[EZMOHR]

I would take off Winchester 73 since in my opinion it is a fun movie, but nothing original, nothing new. It could be one of a dozen from that same era.

How about we replace it, with Macabe & Mrs Miller?

Robert Altman's tale of pimps and whores on the frontier with Warren Beatty and Julie Christie capture the rawness of what the west just might have been. Plus a young Keith Carradine finds himself in the most unfair of gunfights.

It's a really great film, one of Altmans best.

Macabe and Mrs. Miller is Altman's best movie in my opinion.....put it on there.

[EZMOHR]

First, There Will Be Blood is almost unrecognizable from the western genre. It's a drama, first and foremost.

Second, if any new westerns must be on the list, I would support "No Country for Old Men" and "The Proposition." "3:10 to Yuma" is a great film but not one of the best.

Third, it doesn't matter if people recognize "Blazing Saddles" as a western, much like it doesn't matter if people think "Dr. Strangelove" is a war film. These are comedies, man. They are not concerned about genre conventions and genre innovation but rather about getting people to laugh. This goal is what completely separates comedy from other genres: getting people to laugh. Let's not confuse terms here just because one particular film decided to spoof a western.


Are you kidding.....Blazing Saddles is ALL ABOUT the genre. It shows you that 100% of all westerns are the same friggin story, and once you put comedic actors saying the same exact lines....you realize most westerns are funny and predictable. PERIOD. Blazing Saddles is 500x's more a "western" than the best "western" of the last 15 years is, The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.

[Rondre Sleaze]

Where Is The Assassination of Jesses James and Open Range at?

[Julusnc]

Lonesome Dove original television mini-series is as good or better than most other westerns on the list but mini-series and movie is not the same? agree? I for one have no problems listing Lonesome Dove here.

Treasure of the Sierra Madre is all western.....and deserves to be on the list.

[Julusnc]

Quick and the Dead is in no way shape or form worthy to be in a list of Top 25 Westerns.The acting is terrible and the plot is revenge.Its all been many times before and many times better.

[Syzygy]

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

Agree here. The penultimate Western outlaw buddy movie.

Remember this one:

"You think maybe you used a little too much dynamite there, Butch?"

And how about:

"I can't swim!"
(Laughs uproariously) "Hell! It's the fall that'll kill ya!"

[jesse_custer]

So does that mean films such as Support Your Local Sheriff, Cat Ballou and Goin’ South aren’t actually westerns?

Did any of those films have modern orchestras playing in the desert? Did any of those films conclude with the characters going to a modern movie theater? I'm not saying a western can't have comedic tones, but there's a clear difference between that and a movie that is singularly interested in cracking people up by issuing anachronistic sight gags among other irreverent techniques. To qualify as a western, a movie must at least take the setting and time of the movie seriously to a certain extent.

Otherwise, we could conclude that "Young Frankenstein" is legitimate horror, "Spaceballs" is legitimate sci-fi, and "High Anxiety" is legitimate suspense.

First and foremost, "Blazing Saddles" is a COMEDY. It doesn't add anything to the western genre, although it did a helluva a lot for its principle genre, with its stark racial humor and general willingness to do anything for a laugh.

[Slam_Bradley]

Also, no True Grit.


I'll answer this one a couple of ways. One is dealing with the methodology for coming up with the initial list. True Grit didn't show up on all that many of the sources I gleaned from. And when it did, it wasn't that high.

Secondly, having just re-watched True Grit this weekend...it ain't that great a movie. No doubt that Rooster Cogburn is a great part. And Wayne does a great job with it. And there are a couple of very memorable scenes. But the other two leads are absolutely horrific. Kim Darby and Glen Campbell give two of the stiffest performances I've ever seen. I'm sure it didn't help that the dialogue was, overall, terrible. There is nothing terribly compelling about the direction. Even Robert Duvall, who is ordinarily gold, gives a sub-par performance.

Wayne's performance isn't close to enough to elevate this above being an average western.

[Slam_Bradley]

Where Is The Assassination of Jesses James and Open Range at?

They aren't there. Make an argument for them.

[EZMOHR]

I'll answer this one a couple of ways. One is dealing with the methodology for coming up with the initial list. True Grit didn't show up on all that many of the sources I gleaned from. And when it did, it wasn't that high.

Secondly, having just re-watched True Grit this weekend...it ain't that great a movie. No doubt that Rooster Cogburn is a great part. And Wayne does a great job with it. And there are a couple of very memorable scenes. But the other two leads are absolutely horrific. Kim Darby and Glen Campbell give two of the stiffest performances I've ever seen. I'm sure it didn't help that the dialogue was, overall, terrible. There is nothing terribly compelling about the direction. Even Robert Duvall, who is ordinarily gold, gives a sub-par performance.

Wayne's performance isn't close to enough to elevate this above being an average western.



Sorry Rooster Cogburn the character is enough of a presence in the movie to make it Top 25. Just one man's opinion. Campbell isn't great, but Darby isn't horrific and plays her part as shrill as it is supposed to be. Plus, Robert Duvall has a pretty darn decent part in it.

[Julusnc]

John Wayne should have won the Oscar for his part in The Searchers or Red River.I am as big a Wayne fan as any but four of his best are represented (The Searchers, Rio Bravo, Stagecoach and Red River)and thats enough for me.

I have a film for people to ponder - The Long Riders.I for one found it to be a great movie.

[howyadoin]

Just found this thread now. Can we get this thing stickied?

Oh, and another vote for The Proposition. It's everything a Western should be.

[StoneGold]

Lonesome Dove was a TV miniseries, not a movie. Should be disqualified just for that.

And the only good part of True Grit was the end, where he's charging the baddies on horse back. You know, the only part of the movie people actually remember.





And the end shootout for 3:10 to Yuma totally killed the movie for me. Hey, we want to kill that guy, lets shoot at our boss, who we're trying to rescue!