Perceptions Shattered

[mattx110]

I was wondering, if anyone here has some group or musician in mind that sort of turned a genre around for them.

Did you hate country until you realized Johnny Cash cursed and drank with the best of 'em?

One of the classical purists that loves the Beatles despite better judgement?

I wanna know what opened your mind, because if we understand how to make people disavow conceptions and ignore genre, the musicians here can take that and go right for the throat.
It doesn't even have to be a 100% turn-around. Maybe you were OK with bluegrass, but then Sam Bush put you over the edge into obsession.

[Buried Alien]

I disdained Nirvana and Grunge rock in general as tuneless noisemaking until Nirvana performed on UNPLUGGED: LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY. That the band could make such great music without their guitar feedback, and that Cobain, Grohl, and Novoselic had such a diverse and tasteful selection of favorites in their musical background, greatly impressed me.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[twilight]

Public Enemy and De La Soul changed my perceptions about hip hop.

-Twi

[Jonathan Bogart]

Mine is pretty much the most obvious, vanilla story you can imagine, right down the line. The Beatles got me into pop, Bob Dylan got me into rock-as-art, the Clash got me into punk, Johnny Cash got me into country, Louis Armstrong got me into jazz, Aretha Franklin got me into soul, George Gershwin got me into compositional music, Bob Marley got me into reggae, Black Sabbath got me into metal, Sly & The Family Stone got me into funk, Elvis got me into rock & roll, Public Enemy got me into hip-hop, Pitchfork got me into modern indie (and modern pop), Harry Smith got me into folk, Frank Sinatra got me into vocal pop....

[mattx110]

Mine is pretty much the most obvious, vanilla story you can imagine, right down the line. The Beatles got me into pop, Bob Dylan got me into rock-as-art, the Clash got me into punk, Johnny Cash got me into country, Louis Armstrong got me into jazz, Aretha Franklin got me into soul, George Gershwin got me into compositional music, Bob Marley got me into reggae, Black Sabbath got me into metal, Sly & The Family Stone got me into funk, Elvis got me into rock & roll, Public Enemy got me into hip-hop, Pitchfork got me into modern indie (and modern pop), Harry Smith got me into folk, Frank Sinatra got me into vocal pop....
So... You like when musicians are good?

I guess that's probably what this will all boil down to, but failing that, I wanna know how to fake it to get some fans from the other side.

[howyadoin]

Lookin' back, I'd have to say I didn't have much use for country till I heard it filtered through 80s roots rock and cowpunk.

And I didn't really get reggae till a girl I knew humped my leg to a Bob Marley song.

[The Confessor]

I pretty much hated country music as a genre until the age of 18 when The Byrds switched me onto it with their Sweetheart Of The Rodeo album.

[Spike-X]

And now you're a huge Gram Parsons fan?

[The Confessor]

And now you're a huge Gram Parsons fan?

LOL...yeah, pretty much. Love Gram Parsons, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Pure Prarie League, Rick Nelson & The Stone Canyon Band, Mike Nesmith, Dillard & Clark, The Eagles and a whole myriad of other classic Country-Rock artists nowadays.

And it's all down to The Byrds' Sweetheart Of The Rodeo. Mind you, we're going back a bit...this all happened back in 1990 when I was 18.

[Jonathan Bogart]

LOL...yeah, pretty much. Love Gram Parsons, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Pure Prarie League, Rick Nelson & The Stone Canyon Band, Mike Nesmith, Dillard & Clark, The Eagles and a whole myriad of other classic Country-Rock artists nowadays.
So... you still don't like actual country?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

[howyadoin]

So... you still don't like actual country?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)You wouldn't say the Flying Burrito Brothers' "Sing Me Back Home" is actual country? Or Gram's "In My Hour of Darkness"?

[Jonathan Bogart]

You wouldn't say the Flying Burrito Brothers' "Sing Me Back Home" is actual country? Or Gram's "In My Hour of Darkness"?
Country-rock is an accurate descriptor. The sound of country, the self-importance of rock. (Again, not a bad thing.)

[howyadoin]

Country-rock is an accurate descriptor. The sound of country, the self-importance of rock. (Again, not a bad thing.)Rockist.

.

[Ilash]

The Beatles introduced me to the greatness of music
Bob Dylan redefined what great music could be
The Last Waltz introduced me to rootsy American music - including country
The Ramones got me into punk
Marvin Gaye got me into soul, Sly and the Family Stone got me into Funk
The Who got me to accept hard rock and use of synthesizers in rock music
Miles Davis' Kind of Blue gave me some appreciation for jazz

[The Confessor]

So... you still don't like actual country?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)


Errr...yes, I like "actual" country music as well (whatever the hell that is?!).

It has to be the right kind of country music though. I like quite authentic sounding country music, stuff that sounds as pure as Appalachian mountain air. Stuff like Lefty Frizzel, Chet Atkins, Hank Williams, Merle Haggard or The Everly Brother's late 50's excursions into country music. Oh, and Johnny Cash's early Sun singles are pretty bitchin' too.

I also like a little bit of Bluegrass too, stuff like Bill Monroe, The Bluegrass Cardinals, Eric Weissberg and The Kentucy Colonels for instance. Again though, I've only gotten into all those artists because The Byrds turned me on to country style music in the first place.

What I do not like is the slick, over produced Kenny Rogers/Tammy Wynette/Garth Brookes type of country music.


But what I really want to know Jonathan Bogart, is do you like "actual" country music? Or are you just faking it?

[leonaozaki]

What I do not like is the slick, over produced Kenny Rogers/Tammy Wynette/Garth Brookes type of country music.



Man, don't be harshing on Kenny Rogers ("I Just Stopped By to See What Condition My Condition Was In," anyone?) and Tammy Wynette (!).

Garth Brooks is fair game, but some of these new guys make him look like Hank Sr.

rob

[berk]

Errr...yes, I like "actual" country music as well (whatever the hell that is?!).

It has to be the right kind of country music though. I like quite authentic sounding country music, stuff that sounds as pure as Appalachian mountain air. Stuff like Lefty Frizzel, Chet Atkins, Hank Williams, Merle Haggard or The Everly Brother's late 50's excursions into country music. Oh, and Johnny Cash's early Sun singles are pretty bitchin' too.

I also like a little bit of Bluegrass too, stuff like Bill Monroe, The Bluegrass Cardinals, Eric Weissberg and The Kentucy Colonels for instance. Again though, I've only gotten into all those artists because The Byrds turned me on to country style music in the first place.

What I do not like is the slick, over produced Kenny Rogers/Tammy Wynette/Garth Brookes type of country music.


But what I really want to know Jonathan Bogart, is do you like "actual" country music? Or are you just faking it?Most of the modern stuff that sounds closest in spirit to "real", traditional country is usually classified by whoever it is that makes up this bullshit as "alt-country" or somesuch. For example, I think that country album the Supersuckers did, 'Musta Been High' or whatever it was, is more country than Garth Brookes, but you'll never see it in the country section at the record store.

[The Confessor]

Man, don't be harshing on Kenny Rogers ("I Just Stopped By to See What Condition My Condition Was In," anyone?) and Tammy Wynette (!).

Garth Brooks is fair game, but some of these new guys make him look like Hank Sr.

rob

OK, Tammy Wynette's D.I.V.O.R.C.E. is kind of amusing and reasonably clever lyrically and Kenny Rogers did sing a song featuring the line "it's hard to love a man who's legs are bent and paralysed" while keeping a straight face, so he's obviously got something.

It's just not my cup of tea though really. It's just a bit too pop or too polished production-wise for my particular tastes in country music.

[howyadoin]

... that country album the Supersuckers did, 'Musta Been High'I must have this.

[Jonathan Bogart]

But what I really want to know Jonathan Bogart, is do you like "actual" country music? Or are you just faking it?
The Seinfeld quote was supposed to signal that I wasn't seriously accusing you; just noting wryly that your examples of country music were all country-rock. Blame my rigid anti-smilies stance.

The bluegrass and honky-tonk heroes of the 40s and 50s are undoubtedly awesome. But the "overproduced" countrypolitan stuff -- the Nashville sound, as opposed to Sun Studio's Memphis sound or Hag's Bakersfield sound -- is what I think of as "real" country, the stuff that people who only listened to country music in the 50s, 60s, and 70s loved. (And none of them would've touched that hippie Gram Parsons with a ten-foot pole.) People who can't find some love in their hearts for folks like Ray Price, Charlie Rich, Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, and especially the great George Jones strike me as being tourists in countryland on a rock & roll visa. Yeah, it's an acquired taste for most people who didn't grow up with it, but it's also a very rich vein of pop music.

There ain't nothing I don't like, and if I'm faking it, I'm even fooling myself.

[howyadoin]

Blame my rigid anti-smilies stance.Only fools and communists would disagree with that stance.

[leonaozaki]

OK, Tammy Wynette's D.I.V.O.R.C.E. is kind of amusing and reasonably clever lyrically and Kenny Rogers did sing a song featuring the line "it's hard to love a man who's legs are bent and paralysed" while keeping a straight face, so he's obviously got something.

It's just not my cup of tea though really. It's just a bit too pop or too polished production-wise for my particular tastes in country music.

What, no love for "Stand By Your Man?"

No, I hear where you're coming from. I used to feel similarly. But then I moved to Nashville, where you hear this stuff all the time, and I realized that I love it. I love, love, love that Nashville sound. I stop loving it around the time of the 80's-- when big hair and big drums took over-- but to my ears it doesn't often get a whole lot better, or more country, than "countrypolitan."

And Kenny Rogers and Tammy Wynette are a whole 'nother peanut -- and operating on a whole different level-- than Garth Brooks.

rob

[mattx110]

Most of the modern stuff that sounds closest in spirit to "real", traditional country is usually classified by whoever it is that makes up this bullshit as "alt-country" or somesuch. For example, I think that country album the Supersuckers did, 'Musta Been High' or whatever it was, is more country than Garth Brookes, but you'll never see it in the country section at the record store.
Really? I generally find better stuff in the country section than anywhere else in the record store.

[Buried Alien]

Only fools and communists would disagree with that stance.

I guess I'm a pinko, then, because I'm down with all smilies except the rolling eyes one.

Can't hack the rolling eyes one.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[berk]

Yup. Country evolved in more than one worthwhile direction, and I still like Charlie Rich, George Jones and a lot of the big names of the 60s & 70s. It isn't always about the arrangements or whatever. You can have Garth Brooks playing nothing but an old standard guitar and it still won't be as "authentic" as Charlie Rich backed up by a string section.

Re the Supersuckers, that "Must've Been High" album was so good I always assumed they must have done at least one follow-up to it, but looking at their allmusic entry it doesn't seem to have happened. Now I think of it, I haven't heard anything of any kind from them since then. Must have a listen to some of the more recent stuff one of these days.

[berk]

Really? I generally find better stuff in the country section than anywhere else in the record store.Yeah? Maybe things have changed. Must admit I haven't checked in a long time. Like a lot of people, I don't spend nearly as much time in record stores as I used to, and when I am in one I'm usually hunting for something specific. Which they usually don't have in stock anyway. Which usually means it'll be even longer till my next visit to a record store. Etc.

[howyadoin]

I guess I'm a pinko, then, because I'm down with all smilies except the rolling eyes one.Hah! I've exposed another one!

[The Confessor]

The bluegrass and honky-tonk heroes of the 40s and 50s are undoubtedly awesome. But the "overproduced" countrypolitan stuff -- the Nashville sound, as opposed to Sun Studio's Memphis sound or Hag's Bakersfield sound -- is what I think of as "real" country, the stuff that people who only listened to country music in the 50s, 60s, and 70s loved (And none of them would've touched that hippie Gram Parsons with a ten-foot pole.)..

Yeah, I hear you there. I also wouldn't put Sun Studio's Memphis sound into the same category as the Nashville or Bakersfield sound. And you're right about Gram Parsons et el being perceived as long-haired, pot smoking Hippies by the country establishment...and that's exactly what was so subversive about the whole Country-Rock movement of the late 60s and 70s.

Those Country-Rock bands were genuinely looking to 'take back' what they saw as white America's purest form of music from the Rednecks and make it cool for the kids again. And they upset a lot of Country music's old guard while they were doing it...which is exactly what Rock 'n' Roll is supposed to do.

People who can't find some love in their hearts for folks like Ray Price, Charlie Rich, Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, and especially the great George Jones strike me as being tourists in countryland on a rock & roll visa.

Hmmm...I know what you're saying but I also think that's rather an elitist stance to take. A fan of Roy Acuff or Jimmie Rodgers could well argue that the likes of Dolly Parton or Charlie Rich weren't "real" country either but a crass, pop commercialisation of country's nobel traditions. In all honesty, to try and nominate one sub-genre as "real" in an artform as diverse and mercurial as country music is pure folly and strikes me as being rather ill-informed and a largely pointless exercise.

There ain't nothing I don't like, and if I'm faking it, I'm even fooling myself.


Well, you wouldn't be the first to do that. ;)

[howyadoin]

Yeah, I hear you there. I also wouldn't put Sun Studio's Memphis sound into the same category as the Nashville or Bakersfield sound. And you're right about Gram Parsons et el being perceived as long-haired, pot smoking Hippies by the country establishment...and that's exactly what was so subversive about the whole Country-Rock movement of the late 60s and 70s.

Those Country-Rock bands were genuinely looking to 'take back' what they saw as white America's purest form of music from the Rednecks and make it cool for the kids again. And they upset a lot of Country music's old guard while they were doing it...which is exactly what Rock 'n' Roll is supposed to do.The problem there, of course, is that both Waylon Jennings and Kris Kristofferson have admitted in interviews that the whole "outlaw movement" was every bit as staged as the apparent competition between the Beatles and the Stones over singles chart domination in the 60s.

[The Confessor]

The problem there, of course, is that both Waylon Jennings and Kris Kristofferson have admitted in interviews that the whole "outlaw movement" was every bit as staged as the apparent competition between the Beatles and the Stones over singles chart domination in the 60s.

Oh yeah of course but then, that's Rock 'n' Roll for you!

Rock music has always largely been about well educated middle class guys pretending to be scruffy, dangerous non-conformists. And that applies to everyone from Gene Vincent or The Rolling Stones right up to The Strokes and Babyshambles.

[The Confessor]

Kenny Rogers and Tammy Wynette are a whole 'nother peanut -- and operating on a whole different level-- than Garth Brooks.

For sure...I was just lumping them all in together as examples of country artists whose music I don't particularly like.

[The Confessor]

I guess I'm a pinko, then, because I'm down with all smilies except the rolling eyes one.

Can't hack the rolling eyes one.

Oh, I don't know...I think there's a place for the rolling eyes one if it's used in the right way. I use it sometimes but generally only when I'm mocking myself and laughing at my own idiosyncrasies.

The problems arise when people use it to berate other posters and their opinions.

[Jonathan Bogart]

A fan of Roy Acuff or Jimmie Rodgers could well argue that the likes of Dolly Parton or Charlie Rich weren't "real" country either but a crass, pop commercialisation of country's nobel traditions.
Then that hypothetical fan can never properly have listened to Parton or Rich. "Jolene" and "Sittin' And Thinkin'" are as good as country gets. Or they might just be one of those cranks who can't bear anything after stereophonic sound came in. Either way, they're dissmissable.

Anyway, your repeated defining of country in terms of rock & roll kind of proves my point. Country isn't (just) rock & roll, and the parts of it that differ from rock & roll are what makes it country.

[Chiasm]

I just saw the movie last night Across the Universe and I gained a newfound respect for the Beatles songcrafting abilities as I really liked a lot of the cover versions from that movie. I was actually thinking I'd misjudged the Beatles, a band I really don't like, because I heard some songs in the movie I hadn't heard before. Most notably the title song, Across the Universe, so I went out on the net this morning and listened to the original. It reminded me of why I don't like the Beatles as I don't like the original at all and I think it would be much better if McCartney had been singing it. So my respect for the Beatles in terms of lyrically composing great songs is vastly increased while my disdain for how they sing them remains very low. I am considering getting the soundtrack to the movie though since many of the cover versions are good.

[mattx110]

Then that hypothetical fan can never properly have listened to Parton or Rich. "Jolene" and "Sittin' And Thinkin'" are as good as country gets. Or they might just be one of those cranks who can't bear anything after stereophonic sound came in. Either way, they're dissmissable.

Anyway, your repeated defining of country in terms of rock & roll kind of proves my point. Country isn't (just) rock & roll, and the parts of it that differ from rock & roll are what makes it country.
Blues=guitar, harmonica, bass, drums
Bluegrass=mandolin, banjo, guitar, harmonica fiddle, bass
country=all that plus pedal steel and sometimes drums
rock=guitar bass and always drums (barring exceptions)

You can play the same song with 4 sets of instrumentation and and maybe a different accent, and it's 4 different genres. Country is the most open to having a range of instruments, while other genres need some extra bending to get a string section and cowbell on there.

Basically, you have 4 forms of pop music that were developed for the most part within one country, and with cross-over of musicians.

I'm not saying someone can't define what is country and what isn't, but the better the musicians, the harder it gets to pin them down.

Chiasm: There are a whole lot of good Beatles tribute albums sung and played by other people, including a country one that has Chet Atkins with Suzy Bogguss, and some other good people on it. You can feed your need for the finely crafted pop song, and find musicians you want to hear play them quite easily.

[GRANT!]

Never been a big electronic music fan but stuff like Aphex Twin, Autechre and Brian Eno is awesome.

[mattx110]

I found a song by Feist that I like.

I know. It's like seeing the world for the first time.

[leonaozaki]

Hmmm...I know what you're saying but I also think that's rather an elitist stance to take. A fan of Roy Acuff or Jimmie Rodgers could well argue that the likes of Dolly Parton or Charlie Rich weren't "real" country either but a crass, pop commercialisation of country's nobel traditions.


I think Jimmie Rodgers would laugh at the notion that country has a 'noble' tradition. This is the man who wrote "T for Texas" after all-- not to mention all of his other innovations which don't seem very "pure country."

Also I have never met a fan of Acuff or Rodgers who didn't also love Parton or Rich. I think the distinction between "pure" country and "Nashville" country is one that most country fans wouldn't understand. Are you going to tell me that the woman who sang "My Tennessee Mountain Home" and "Coat of Many Colors" (and "Jolene") isn't country?

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

I'm not saying someone can't define what is country and what isn't, but the better the musicians, the harder it gets to pin them down.
There are defining elements beyond instrumentation or even the music itself. Literary elements, cultural elements, even commercial elements all have a say in what pop genres are defined as.

[GRANT!]

I found a song by Feist that I like.

I know. It's like seeing the world for the first time.

I like a lot of her stuff. It's good chill out music.

[leonaozaki]

Blues=guitar, harmonica, bass, drums
Bluegrass=mandolin, banjo, guitar, harmonica fiddle, bass
country=all that plus pedal steel and sometimes drums
rock=guitar bass and always drums (barring exceptions)



So...now Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter Family, and Johnny Cash aren't country?

rob

[mattx110]

There are defining elements beyond instrumentation or even the music itself. Literary elements, cultural elements, even commercial elements all have a say in what pop genres are defined as. For current artists, the other elements don't apply in deciding genre. It depends on how you apply the standards for historical judgements.

I like a lot of her stuff. It's good chill out music. :cool: =me chilling out.

So...now Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter Family, and Johnny Cash aren't country?

rob
Washboards and autoharp can be country or folk. Folk is often a misnomer anyway. Why would what I wrote make the Carter Family or Johnny Cash no country? Umm... the singing was implied... that's all I can get. Please be clear so I can tell you why I'm not being clear.

[The Confessor]

Then that hypothetical fan can never properly have listened to Parton or Rich. "Jolene" and "Sittin' And Thinkin'" are as good as country gets.

Errr...but that isn't in dispute. Whether said artist or said song is good is not the topic of discussion here. What we're debating is the absurdity of claiming any particular type of country music as an example of "real" country. Like all music, Country is all things to all people and my point is that a fan of old-timey country music could claim it as the "true" country music with as much validity as you do for Dolly Parton's "Jolene".

Or they might just be one of those cranks who can't bear anything after stereophonic sound came in. Either way, they're dissmissable.

Or maybe they just disagree with you, which is hardly a reason to dismiss them.
Maybe you just don't get it?

And while we're here, I fail to see how someone who much prefers mono records to stereo ones is a crank. There are fairly obvious pros and cons for both sound reproduction types that I'm sure a music lover like yourself is well aware of. This obviously leads to a small group of purists having a very definite preference for one type over another. This kind of thing happens in any area of life that people feel passionately about...just check out the Classic Comics Board for the comic fan equivalent. ;)

Anyway, your repeated defining of country in terms of rock & roll kind of proves my point. Country isn't (just) rock & roll, and the parts of it that differ from rock & roll are what makes it country.

Ummm...what?! Where have I defined country in terms of rock 'n' roll? The nearest I can see is where I used a rock music truism in relation to the Outlaw Country sub-genre. And frankly, since Outlaw Country artists like Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson were clearly influenced by the cross-pollination between rock and country that the likes of Gram Parsons instigated, it was a perfectly justifiable comparison.

[The Confessor]

Also I have never met a fan of Acuff or Rodgers who didn't also love Parton or Rich. I think the distinction between "pure" country and "Nashville" country is one that most country fans wouldn't understand. Are you going to tell me that the woman who sang "My Tennessee Mountain Home" and "Coat of Many Colors" (and "Jolene") isn't country?

Nope, I'm not. They're both country (obviously) but distinctly different styles nonetheless, in much the same way as Mersey Beat and Psychedelic Rock are both types of rock music but still distinctly different from one another.

In addition to that, I was making the point that claiming either style as "real" country is absurd and largely just a matter of personal opinion. Something that you obviously agree with, judging from your post.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Errr...but that isn't in dispute. Whether said artist or said song is good is not the topic of discussion here. What we're debating is the absurdity of claiming any particular type of country music as an example of "real" country. Like all music, Country is all things to all people and my point is that a fan of old-timey country music could claim it as the "true" country music with as much validity as you do for Dolly Parton's "Jolene".
*sigh* Just listen to "Jolene," will you? I picked it because it's old-timey as hell, Appalachian to the bone, and without an ounce of varnished production on it. Nobody who prefers old-time music would think of it as in any way opposed to their vision of country.

The phrase "as good as country gets" wasn't just a long way of saying "good," it was making a claim for the essential countryness of those songs. It's all part of the same continuum, in other words. I don't believe that Nashville country is more "real" than other kinds of country -- I believe that a vision of country which excludes the classic Nashville sound is essentially limited.

And while we're here, I fail to see how someone who much prefers mono records to stereo ones is a crank. There are fairly obvious pros and cons for both sound reproduction types that I'm sure a music lover like yourself is well aware of. This obviously leads to a small group of purists having a very definite preference for one type over another. This kind of thing happens in any area of life that people feel passionately about...just check out the Classic Comics Board for the comic fan equivalent. ;-)
Again, not what I was saying. "Since stereophonic sound came in" doesn't mean they prefer mono to stereo, it means they don't like music made since 1957 or so. I had in mind people who think that music died when they stopped making 78s, or that Hank Williams was the last great musician. Those people exist (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=32147741), and they are cranks. I love 'em (and I love the music they love), but they're nuts.

Although, come to think of it, I do think that any exclusionary preferences at all are pretty stupid, so you're right about that. Like some things better than others, but be open to everything, is my motto.

Ummm...what?! Where have I defined country in terms of rock 'n' roll? The nearest I can see is where I used a rock music truism in relation to the Outlaw Country sub-genre. And frankly, since Outlaw Country artists like Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson were clearly influenced by the cross-pollination between rock and country that the likes of Gram Parsons instigated, it was a perfectly justifiable comparison.
Fair enough, I guess. I was reading those mentions as having a wider application.

[leonaozaki]

Nope, I'm not. They're both country (obviously) but distinctly different styles nonetheless, in much the same way as Mersey Beat and Psychedelic Rock are both types of rock music but still distinctly different from one another.



First, is Mersey Beat really a type of rock music? Second, Parton's early singles ("Jolene," "Coat of Many Colors," "Tennessee Mountain Home") are much, much closer to Rodgers and Acuff than Mersey Beat is to Psychedelic Rock.

rob

[The Confessor]

*sigh* Just listen to "Jolene," will you? I picked it because it's old-timey as hell, Appalachian to the bone, and without an ounce of varnished production on it. Nobody who prefers old-time music would think of it as in any way opposed to their vision of country.

Yeah, the song itself, it's chord structure, lyrics and melody are certainly old-timey. I know just where you're coming from with that but I'd have to disagree with it being "without an ounce of varnished production on it". I don't know, I guess that to my ears it sounds very polished compared to the rawness of those classic old-timey records. That's not a criticism of the song "Jolene", which is obviously great, it's just an observation.

Again, not what I was saying. "Since stereophonic sound came in" doesn't mean they prefer mono to stereo, it means they don't like music made since 1957 or so. I had in mind people who think that music died when they stopped making 78s, or that Hank Williams was the last great musician.

Ah, I see. Sorry, crossed wires there. I thought you were talking about people who prefer the punchy mono versions of 50's and 60's records to their stereo counterparts for example.

Although, come to think of it, I do think that any exclusionary preferences at all are pretty stupid, so you're right about that. Like some things better than others, but be open to everything, is my motto.

And a good motto it is too. That's pretty much my stance as well.

[The Confessor]

First, is Mersey Beat really a type of rock music?.

Well, I'm using the term "rock" in the widest possible sense, as a term for all popular music from roughly the mid-50s up to the present day. Mersey Beat's obviously not "rock" in the same way that Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath are.

Second, Parton's early singles ("Jolene," "Coat of Many Colors," "Tennessee Mountain Home") are much, much closer to Rodgers and Acuff than Mersey Beat is to Psychedelic Rock.

Well, that's debatable...some so-called psychedelic music was actually fairly conventionally pop-based, take I Can Hear The Grass Grow by The Move for instance. Although the lyrics might be decidedly Class of '67, the chords, lyrics and vocal melody aren't a million miles away from the sort of guitar-pop that the Mersey Beat groups stormed the charts with.

But whether you consider Dolly Parton and Jimmie Rodgers to be closer than Mersey Beat and Psychedelic Rock is not really the point. They're just two examples of different styles within a particular genre of music and that was what I was trying to illustrate.