Crossing Midnight canceled :(

[noh-varr]

From Mike Carey himself, the series is over at 19. http://www.mikecarey.net/forum/topic.php?id=189#post-2042

I know that it seems a lot of the topics in the Vertigo section revolve around such disappointments as of late, but really what is going on here? The second trade JUST came out this week. I thought it hit on every level and I really wanted more, but no, just a few more issues to conclude everything. I want to see how it does end and he does say in the link there will be a decent conclusion. But just still messed up. It looks like the whole wave of new Vertigo is gone except for DMZ. It was all top quality stuff too (though Testament did kind of lose me pretty quickly) and it's all gone.

What's odd is I just picked up the first issue of Vinyl Underground, and no wonder if that will even last a year with the way things are going.

[Alan Lynch]

Well shit. I was hoping the rumblings about this weren't true, but I guess that's it. Oh well; I just hope that it at least gets the chance to wrap things up. I thought it started off slowly, but the last few arcs have been superb across the board.

[rZi]

Damn thats annoying, i was just getting into it and everything.

[Robo Ape]

From Mike Carey himself, the series is over at 19. http://www.mikecarey.net/forum/topic.php?id=189#post-2042

I know that it seems a lot of the topics in the Vertigo section revolve around such disappointments as of late, but really what is going on here? The second trade JUST came out this week. I thought it hit on every level and I really wanted more, but no, just a few more issues to conclude everything. I want to see how it does end and he does say in the link there will be a decent conclusion. But just still messed up. It looks like the whole wave of new Vertigo is gone except for DMZ. It was all top quality stuff too (though Testament did kind of lose me pretty quickly) and it's all gone.

What's odd is I just picked up the first issue of Vinyl Underground, and no wonder if that will even last a year with the way things are going.

That's bad news, I was really enjoying this title & cannot believe they have axed it. I will not have much in the way of Vertigo titles to read the way this is going on.:(

By the sound of it, it's being axed due to lack of sales, what's wrong with people don't they recognise a good title when they see it.

[carabas]

And another favourite book of mine bites the dust years before its time...

I am almost starting to wish I could enjoy the mediocre claptrap that sells into the hundreds of thousands copies.

[Jack]

How many/which Vertigo books still have a future at this point? I know it seems like everything is being cancelled, but is that actually the case?

[stealthwise]

I'm not surprised by this, given that the sales were really, really bad.


235 - CROSSING MIDNIGHT (Vertigo)
12/2006: Crossing Midnight #2 — 8,982 (-29.6%)
01/2007: Crossing Midnight #3 — 8,236 (- 8.3%)
02/2007: Crossing Midnight #4 — 7,568 (- 8.1%)
03/2007: Crossing Midnight #5 — 7,196 (- 4.9%)
04/2007: Crossing Midnight #6 — 7,036 (- 2.2%)
05/2007: Crossing Midnight #7 — 6,866 (- 2.4%)
06/2007: Crossing Midnight #8 — 6,612 (- 3.7%)
07/2007: Crossing Midnight #9 — 6,351 (- 4.0%)
08/2007: Crossing Midnight #10 — 6,142 (- 3.3%)
09/2007: Crossing Midnight #11 — 5,870 (- 4.4%)
10/2007: Crossing Midnight #12 — 5,754 (- 2.0%)
11/2007: Crossing Midnight #13 — 5,519 (- 4.1%)
12/2007: Crossing Midnight #14 — 5,467 (- 0.9%)
—————-
6 months: -17.3%
1 year : -39.1%
The cover artist recently stated that Crossing Midnight was canceled around issue #20, but then retracted his statement. Either way, things don’t look rosy for the book.

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/01/31/dc-month-to-month-sales-december-2007/

[noh-varr]

But what are the sales on the trades? Lucifer lived off trades, I just feel really cheated that the trade just came out this week and it's how I give them money to read their books, and it just doesn't seem to count. There are a good number of people who just pick up trades or even actually pick things up at bookstores only.

As for what is still going well at Vertigo, we got Fables, Jack, 100 Bullets, Scalped, DMZ, Northlanders, and Vinyl Underground was pretty good first issue (I know I'm behind) so will give that a shot. Not as big of a list of what to look forward to in a few months as before, but still something.

[matthewaos]

But what are the sales on the trades? Lucifer lived off trades, I just feel really cheated that the trade just came out this week and it's how I give them money to read their books, and it just doesn't seem to count. There are a good number of people who just pick up trades or even actually pick things up at bookstores only.

As for what is still going well at Vertigo, we got Fables, Jack, 100 Bullets, Scalped, DMZ, Northlanders, and Vinyl Underground was pretty good first issue (I know I'm behind) so will give that a shot. Not as big of a list of what to look forward to in a few months as before, but still something.

100 bullets will end in about 10 - 12 issues though. And it's true, Testament was a fucking great idea, but it lost me quick. There's always Loveless though, but with all those delays...

[Robo Ape]

Are Vertigo going to launch much in the way of new titles this year does anyone know?

[DubipR]

BOOO! :mad:

Seems like all the Vertigo titles I like (the ones I missed out when buying from issue 1) are getting the axe. I'd love to see some of these books at least go past 2 years. Seems like Vertigo's marketing people aren't branching out enough to push their books outside of the comic reader market.

If Crossing Midnight was pushed in a Rolling Stone, with an advert or something, it might've lived on. I see that for most of the Vertigo titles these days.
Marketing their books needs to be looked at differently immediately. If not, all the Vertigo books will be short lived.

[DonC]

But what are the sales on the trades? Lucifer lived off trades, I just feel really cheated that the trade just came out this week and it's how I give them money to read their books, and it just doesn't seem to count. There are a good number of people who just pick up trades or even actually pick things up at bookstores only.


The lifeblood of DC and Marvel is monthly comics. If those don't sell, the book will have to do amazing as a trade to continue.

As long as people keep taking the "I don't buy pamphlets" attitude they'll have to get used to the books they like going away.

[noh-varr]

The lifeblood of DC and Marvel is monthly comics. If those don't sell, the book will have to do amazing as a trade to continue.

As long as people keep taking the "I don't buy pamphlets" attitude they'll have to get used to the books they like going away.

But Vertigo has many times been different. As I stated above some series single issues have sucked and the trades kept them alive, Lucifer being the biggest example (which I wish I could remember what interview that was from with Mike Carey).

Sandman is still making DC money because of the trades, so is Preacher, Y, and 100 Bullets will continue down that road as well. There are a lot of people who have moved to trades and at my comic shop more people pick up Vertigo via trade instead of single issues. The problem can not be that we are sticking with "I don't buy pamphlets", we are giving the company money with the trade. Most likely most of us are having the shops order the books for us to improve sales. What is really wrong is when a company goes, "I'm sorry we don't want your money unless you buy these of the two products when we produce BOTH options". Trades are not produced so they can be bought for the second time. The point of trades is so people can buy them separately and catch up on what they missed. But you know many more people more eloquent and educated then I have discussed this until they are blue in the face, so just go see their arguments. Personally I just hope Avatar continues to get top quality work put out and continue with releasing trades and single issues. Seems to be working for them and I will give them my money happily, as I will with the last trade of Crossing Midnight, Exterminators, and the rest of the Vertigo books I enjoy.

[Ryan Day]

But what are the sales on the trades? Lucifer lived off trades, I just feel really cheated that the trade just came out this week and it's how I give them money to read their books, and it just doesn't seem to count. There are a good number of people who just pick up trades or even actually pick things up at bookstores only.

I think DC, particularly Vertigo, does count that. 100 Bullets doesn't sell much on a monthly basis, but it keeps going. The best example is a Wildstorm one, but still applies - Sleeper & Wildcats 3.0 both sold pretty crummy monthly, but Sleeper got to keep going due to stronger trade sales.

I think we have to conclude that the recent round of Vertigo series didn't sell very well in trade, either. At this point, DC's got the data on the first volume sales, as well the initial orders on the second volume. At some point, you've just got to decide that it's not selling.

Anyway. I'm still pretty disappointed by this; the story was really building, and I'm not sure how Carey's going to wrap it all up in a relatively short timeframe - it seemed like it was working on a pretty long-term program.

I wonder if the series might have done better with a different artist. I really liked Jim Fern's character work - the Yakuza story in #5 was great - but a lot of the magic and fantastical elements didn't quite pop. Perhaps it's just nostalgia, but I'd really like to see what Peter Gross and/or Dean Ormston could have done on the book.

[stealthwise]

As much as DC likes the trade sales, you seriously can't expect them to continue a book that had to have been bleeding money month after month. That's why I posted those numbers: 5000 readers? That's it? I was astounded that they continued past issue 12, to be honest.

[noh-varr]

As much as DC likes the trade sales, you seriously can't expect them to continue a book that had to have been bleeding money month after month. That's why I posted those numbers: 5000 readers? That's it? I was astounded that they continued past issue 12, to be honest.

Well even then there are many touting how sales numbers from Diamond are crap anyways as they don't take into account orders after a certain date, reorders and such. After doing a bit of quick research that included an interesting discussion in the forums on this very subject, I worry about Scalped. It's in the same sales range (listed) as Exterminators and the other now canceled books. Though I do think we have to look at trade sales as well. If say the trade sells 10k or something with 7k (what Exterminators and the like are being said to sell, let's not get into the semantics of how reliable the sales charts are) then the book is really selling 17k. And that is just initial not counting resales, reorders, and the person who runs across a book 3 years from now and picks them all up. But I don't have any of those numbers and really am too tired to get deep into this especially with really lacking all the information, I would be truly talking from the hip with not enough evidence.

It does seem to be that trades are accounted in the numbers though, so my biggest concern is answered. My money does count, or at least from what discussion I have read seems to be pointing to that. So that does make me happy, and I hope that the other books I am enjoying remain. I also hope that Crossing Midnight sells a HUGE amount of copies over the years and prove the cancellation wrong. :P

[kanjisheik]

I just cant believe this...:( I was just so excited that Mike Carey was back doing what he does best [Huge fantasy arcs!!!] and then I found out that it got cancelled... Everything was perfect about this series!

I'm form India, and I buy trades, cos the monthly issues arent shipped here {obviously!} I feel that Crossing Midnight is one of Vertigo's top titles- my other favs being Fables, DMZ and Scalped.

This is just not right!!! :mad: I just hope they dont cancel Scalped now!

[DonC]

But Vertigo has many times been different. As I stated above some series single issues have sucked and the trades kept them alive, Lucifer being the biggest example (which I wish I could remember what interview that was from with Mike Carey).

I would guess with sales of only 5,000 an issue, the money made on trades isn't enough to offset the losses on single issues.

Also, what do the trades sell?

Sandman is still making DC money because of the trades, so is Preacher, Y, and 100 Bullets will continue down that road as well. There are a lot of people who have moved to trades and at my comic shop more people pick up Vertigo via trade instead of single issues. The problem can not be that we are sticking with "I don't buy pamphlets", we are giving the company money with the trade.


DC and Marvel are ad-supported. It is that simple. If people don't buy the monthly comics with the ads then DC and Marvel are forced to charge less for the ads and make less profit.

The monthy comics are the ones that have to pay the writers, artists, editors, printers, electric bills, rent, and so on. Yes, there have been times where a Vertigo title has been given a pass on making money as a monthly because of trades. Hell, Manhunter is being brought back because of trade sales. But sometimes comics just don't sell enough, period. It doesn't matter about the format.

It sucks when a book we like is canceled. I think Exterminators is the most fun I've had reading a comic in years, but shit happens.

[noh-varr]

Yeah shit does happen and really although I am a disheartened by series I enjoy either have been ended or ending prematurely, there is still a good amount of work that I do enjoy and will continue to support. Despite these set backs in the comics I read, I will continue to check out new Vertigo work because typically what they put out I enjoy. Same goes for Oni, Top Shelf, some Image and as of late Avatar.

But the internet and message boards are bound and determined to be places where people bitch and moan and call each other names for no reason. SO I decided to join in on part of it :)

I just recalled after hitting save, the new Vertigo Preview book that has all the first issues which is in the new Previews has both Exterminators and Crossing Midnight in it, which I find like a bit of a mistake on someone's part. If you're going to cancel a book why then bring out something that will get people interested in the product?

[Clea]

Shame. I really like this book.:(

[dancj]

The monthy comics are the ones that have to pay the writers, artists, editors, printers, electric bills, rent, and so on.
Not if they're expecting the comic to make loads of money in the trades.

[Lombardo!]

I'm not surprised by this, given that the sales were really, really bad.

235 - CROSSING MIDNIGHT (Vertigo)
12/2006: Crossing Midnight #2 — 8,982 (-29.6%)
01/2007: Crossing Midnight #3 — 8,236 (- 8.3%)
02/2007: Crossing Midnight #4 — 7,568 (- 8.1%)
03/2007: Crossing Midnight #5 — 7,196 (- 4.9%)
04/2007: Crossing Midnight #6 — 7,036 (- 2.2%)
05/2007: Crossing Midnight #7 — 6,866 (- 2.4%)
06/2007: Crossing Midnight #8 — 6,612 (- 3.7%)
07/2007: Crossing Midnight #9 — 6,351 (- 4.0%)
08/2007: Crossing Midnight #10 — 6,142 (- 3.3%)
09/2007: Crossing Midnight #11 — 5,870 (- 4.4%)
10/2007: Crossing Midnight #12 — 5,754 (- 2.0%)
11/2007: Crossing Midnight #13 — 5,519 (- 4.1%)
12/2007: Crossing Midnight #14 — 5,467 (- 0.9%)




http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/01/31/dc-month-to-month-sales-december-2007/


this, i do not understand. a book of this calibre barely staying above 5k
while there are tens of books on the stands that you can only shake your head at and sigh with pity.

Crossing Midnight will be sorely missed

[sgt pepper]

The most recent issue is excellent, too. Many questions are answered. Suspense builds.

The book keeps getting beter and sales keep dropping.

[Matthew K.]

The most recent issue is excellent, too. Many questions are answered. Suspense builds.

The book keeps getting beter

That's good to hear. I picked up tpb no. one and enjoyed it very much. I heard rumors of cancellation (right after I finished the volume) but still thought about getting any other trades that were released...it was a good story from what I read.

Are other tpb of Crossing Midnight available?

and sales keep dropping.

Bummer, but majority dumb'ed-down groupthink tales never have been my thing.

[aderechelsea]

i hope the series will be wrapped up nicely because i intend to get it as a whole and read it after it ends.

[MartinRedmond]

I think Vertigo stretches it's series farther than they deserve to anyway. Has anyone actually read any comic for longer than 30 issues? Even the stuff I loved, never really collected and read more than that.

Deadman could've been a 120 pages straight to paperback. Exterminators didn't deserve an ongoing at all. The Minx was fun but if it had been made to last so short from the start it would've been better. Still haven't read Trigger though.

[MartinRedmond]

Well even then there are many touting how sales numbers from Diamond are crap anyways as they don't take into account orders after a certain date, reorders and such.

Last I remember, Hellblazer was selling 5k a month ten years ago.

[Mr. Palmer]

Are other tpb of Crossing Midnight available?


There's a second one available.

And I do believe that THE EXTERMINATORS deserved an ongoing. Though I will admit it seems to have lost a bit of focus in the later issues, I've enjoyed every one.

I've also read plenty of comics past the 30-issue phase. I like when books go for "the long run".

[dancj]

I think Vertigo stretches it's series farther than they deserve to anyway. Has anyone actually read any comic for longer than 30 issues? Even the stuff I loved, never really collected and read more than that.
You mean like Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Fables, Y The Last Man, Doom Patrol, Shade the Changing Man, Sandman, Lucifer etc....

Yeah I'd imagine most people here have. If you lose interest in them before then that probably says more about you than the books you're reading (unless you're reading Spawn)

[MartinRedmond]

You mean like Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Fables, Y The Last Man, Doom Patrol, Shade the Changing Man, Sandman, Lucifer etc....

Yeah I'd imagine most people here have. If you lose interest in them before then that probably says more about you than the books you're reading (unless you're reading Spawn)

I never read Spawn! :] Doom Patrol barely broke even, I think sales were pathetic, there was a plea every letter collumn to help out cause it was selling like 24k in the early 90s. Invisibles did awful as well. With more pleas in the letter collumn to please do something. When it concluded, no one on the internet talked about it except me and 3 people.

I just don't think a long run monthly is a realistic goal unless the first 12 issues are a big hit. I'm sorry I don't control the actions of comic readers.

[carabas]

I never read Spawn! :] Doom Patrol barely broke even, I think sales were pathetic, there was a plea every letter collumn to help out cause it was selling like 24k in the early 90s. Invisibles did awful as well.Vertigo doesn't really care that much about floppy sales as long as the trades do okay. Doom Patrol Vol. 6 came in at 14 in the top 100 last month. The Invisibels continues to get new print runs. Obviously it's doing not so bad.

I just don't think a long run monthly is a realistic goal unless the first 12 issues are a big hit. I'm sorry I don't control the actions of comic readers.It's often the opposite, with the books only becoming really popular once the story really gets going and word of mouth spreads. Even Sandman didnt't really catch on until the second arc.

[Orbitron]

Crossing Midnight is awesome! I think Carey is the most underrated writer at Marvel/DC! Lucifer was epic, and Crossing Midnight seemed to have that kind of future. My only hope is that DC allows him to take the book elsewhere, like Peter David did with Fallen Angel. Crossing Midnight would be a nice fit at IDW.

On a separate note, as a store owner, I largely fault store owners for not reading and recommending any titles that don't include Spider-Man, Wolverine or Batman!

[Shellhead]

DC and Marvel are ad-supported. It is that simple. If people don't buy the monthly comics with the ads then DC and Marvel are forced to charge less for the ads and make less profit.


Actually, in recent times, most DC comics I buy have only had in-house ads, for things like Countdown or Salvation Run. I think Marvel still runs some ads from outside parties, and maybe the back covers and interior covers at DC are still outside ads.

[Leocomix]

Actually, in recent times, most DC comics I buy have only had in-house ads, for things like Countdown or Salvation Run. I think Marvel still runs some ads from outside parties, and maybe the back covers and interior covers at DC are still outside ads.

So it means they don't sell all their ad space to outside parties and fill it with their own ads. Not supporting a monthly series is taking a risk to see it cancelled. With Gerber's passing I've been catching up on his series and bought Hard Time 50 to life. Fantastic book yet only the first six issues are in tpb I will have to track down single issues. I wasn't buying Countdown to Mystery because I didn't care about Eclipso. I'm lucky that the Dr. Fate series is going to be collected.

[dancj]

I just don't think a long run monthly is a realistic goal unless the first 12 issues are a big hit. I'm sorry I don't control the actions of comic readers.
I'm not sure how any of your post is relevant to the thread. You questioned whether anyone reads more than 30 issues of a comic and there are (even if you take away your questionable assessment of the success of Doom Patrol and The Invisibles) several long runs that have been very successful - and read in their entirety by lots of people.

[DonC]

Actually, in recent times, most DC comics I buy have only had in-house ads, for things like Countdown or Salvation Run. I think Marvel still runs some ads from outside parties, and maybe the back covers and interior covers at DC are still outside ads.


A recent LitG column said DC was looking to hire an ad salesman so I would assume they're trying to replace those in-house ads with paying ads.

[MartinRedmond]

I'm not sure how any of your post is relevant to the thread. You questioned whether anyone reads more than 30 issues of a comic and there are (even if you take away your questionable assessment of the success of Doom Patrol and The Invisibles) several long runs that have been very successful - and read in their entirety by lots of people.

Loads of Vertigo series were cancelled and forgoten: The Minx, Trigger, Deadman, that series about teens on scooters, Swamp Thing 1 2 3 etc etc etc everything Peter Milligan does (cause he's too awesome). I'd much rather read a story with a proper, well planned ending than be treated to an abrupt end cause the money ran out.

[carabas]

Loads of Vertigo series were cancelled and forgoten... Swamp Thing 1 2 3...How exactly is Allan Moore's Swamp Thing forgotten? Or the follow ups? They're putting the Rick Veitch run into trades as we speak.

[MartinRedmond]

How exactly is Allan Moore's Swamp Thing forgotten? Or the follow ups? They're putting the Rick Veitch run into trades as we speak.

They all got cancelled. The character still can't sustain a monthly ongoing. You can argue all you want, their monthlies are obviously losing money in the real world.

[carabas]

They all got cancelled. The character still can't sustain a monthly ongoing.So? Very few character can. Green Arrow and Green Lantern can't.
But Allan Moore's Swamp Thing didn't get canceled. He finished his story, left, and someone else's Swamp Thing got Canceled. And considering that you can walk into most comic shops and buy the entire run in brandnew trades, it's hardly been forgotten.

Infinite ongoing runs aren't really what most Vertigo series are about. Plus there's only a handful of regular superhero series that last longer than a hundred issues or so. Most of what Milligan did for vertigo were limited series. and Shade, The Shanging Man had a healthy run (70 issues) by any standard.

Of course, a bunch of the books you mentioned were canceled because they were just goddamn awfully bad (like the most recent iteration of Swamp thing or any Bruce Jones reimagining of old characters).

Just wondering, "that series about teens on scooters", the only thing vaguely like this that comes to mind is Dave Gibbons' The Originals graphic novel, which wasn't serialised but released directly as a hardcover.

[Shellhead]

So? Very few character can. Green Arrow and Green Lantern can't.


Hmm, does that mean that my copy of Green Arrow #133 is a fake?

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/37046835554.133.gif

Nope, it looks like Mile High Comics has it in stock ,too.

[brundlefly]

Just wondering, "that series about teens on scooters", the only thing vaguely like this that comes to mind is Dave Gibbons' The Originals graphic novel, which wasn't serialised but released directly as a hardcover.

Most likely a reference to Ed Brubaker's Deadenders, which ran about 15 issues or so.

[carabas]

Hmm, does that mean that my copy of Green Arrow #133 is a fake?.Considering that the book was canceled five issues later, I'd say that Green Arrow can't sustain an ongoing series in the way that Martin indicates. Swamp Thing ran for 171 issues, and by his standards it's a forgotten failure.

[carabas]

Most likely a reference to Ed Brubaker's Deadenders, which ran about 15 issues or so.Thanks. I've been meaning to get that. It's pretty much the only work of his that's missing from my collection.

[dancj]

Loads of Vertigo series were cancelled and forgoten: The Minx, Trigger, Deadman, that series about teens on scooters, Swamp Thing 1 2 3 etc etc etc everything Peter Milligan does (cause he's too awesome). I'd much rather read a story with a proper, well planned ending than be treated to an abrupt end cause the money ran out.
Erm... so are you saying that because some comics's get prematurely cancelled (which Swamp Thing series 2 wasn't BTW) or put out of their misery for being crap, Vertigo should never try anything longer than a miniseries?

[dancj]

But Allan Moore's Swamp Thing didn't get canceled. He finished his story, left, and someone else's Swamp Thing got Canceled. And considering that you can walk into most comic shops and buy the entire run in brandnew trades, it's hardly been forgotten.
No-one's Swamp Thing run got cancelled in that run of the book (unless you count Rick Veitch leaving a couple of issues early). Mark Millar finished the book off with a healthy (and excellent) run which gave the series a proper ending.

No shame in that. The only shame is in the crap couple of attempts at a Swamp Thing series since then.

[gorthon616]

This made my day sad. :(

[gorthon616]

Maybe if we fight for it hard by buying trade and petitioning we can save it...?

[lookwhoitis]

ARRRGH! I LOVED this series!

[Mr. Palmer]

Welcome to CBR! :)

[abyss]

Maybe if we fight for it hard by buying trade and petitioning we can save it...?
I think that's a great idea. And sending letters hey it worked for Manhunter.

[dancj]

I'd be surprised if it worked. Books like Manhunter and Sleeper that get saved like this have a large following and loads of critical acclaim.

I haven't seen nearly the same enthusiasm for Crossing Midnight.