Grant Morrison on FINAL CRISIS (part 1)

[HotRod_Tim]

Here is the link so you can catch up...

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=146753

Pretty much, nothing really new. Morrison claims that this is really "doomsday" for the DCU, interesting.

To me, it really does look like this is gonna cover all of the DCU. He talks about the Human Flame, a character from an old Martian Manhunter story, being a major character in FC, wonder how he'll be used.

Grant seems really excited and good about Final Crisis and with him being my favorite comic book writer ever, I put all my trust in him to pull this off and bring DC to prominence again. How does it look for everyone else....

[kello]

I'm glad this isn't a reboot of the DCU, but I still get the sense that no one major will die.

[HotRod_Tim]

I'm glad this isn't a reboot of the DCU, but I still get the sense that no one major will die.

I feel the same about the reboot thing, I was dreading it's truth. But as for a major character dying, I don't know...

[GRANT!]

I'm wary of the whole Crisis thing but I'm kind pumped up about this because of Morrison and apparently there's a Seven Soliders connection. Oh and a load of Kirby characters.

[Will.S]

The interview got me a little more excited for Final Crisis since I was at a point where I almost didn't care anymore given how cryptic Dan Didio has been. Plus they've been saying the same damn thing in every interview (it's going from Anthro to Kamandi blah blah blah) but I like all the stuff he revealed with the characters involved like Wonder Woman, The Question, the Alpha Lanterns, Frankenstein, Mary Marvel fighting Supergirl.

It's also interesting that the Alpha Lanterns were his idea rather than Geoff's but it's cool to see that they're going to play into the story. I was going to scan this from the new Wizard but Newsarama has the pic already:

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/LIBRA-jg-jones.jpg

Very cool.

[ShaggyB]

read the interview and am now more excited than ever for Final Crisis. I was worried a reboot was gonna happen and then we'd end up with lame re-tellings of origins and of course the Death of Superman/Doomsday thing all over again. Glad to hear it wont be like that after Crisis.

Although sense it wont be, how will this be the finale crisis? I see dc needing to do one anytime marvel does one.

Ah well, Im still super pumped for this one.

[raul the cat]

Can't wait!

[XPac]

Maybe it's just me, but the scale of the whole thing seems kind of small to be a final crisis. It just kind of sounds like Darkseid is attacking the earth... which is big, but it actually sounds smaller than Sinestro Corps. Of course, I don't know exactly what it's about, so I'm just going by how it sounds.

Don't get me wrong, I actually LIKE the idea of it being a smaller scale event and not crossing over into everything else. And I CERTAINLY love the idea that it's not retconing the universe. But the term "Crisis" usually implies something pretty darn universally shaking. Calling it the final crisis implies even more.

But I guess we'll see.

[Choppa]

He says that the reboot thing has been before. When? COIE wasn't really a full reboot was it? Not everyone started from scratch if I understand what happened correctly.

Anyway, I'm sure that this book won't have anything big like a major death or reboot becasue he says that it's character driven like Infinite Crisis was, which had no big gimmick in it. And I think the final part probably refers to this being the last big event for a long long time.

[Ian J.N.]

Maybe it's just me, but the scale of the whole thing seems kind of small to be a final crisis.
Hmm, I get the opposite impression:

IGN Comics: Can you tell us a little bit about Final Crisis' story? It's seven issues, correct?

DiDio: It's seven issues over eight months. The book starts in May, and what you'll see is that it really involves the entire DC Universe, and as Grant has said, it takes us from Anthro to Kamandi, the First Boy on Earth to the Last Boy on Earth. It plays through multiple times, multiple timelines, multiple universes, multiple characters, and at the heart of it is everything that I believe makes the DC Universe unique and great.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/851/851191p2.html


It sounds epic and more in the spirit of the original Crisis than IC was.

[ultramandingo]

..........Frankenstein and super-animals ! heck kill all the jla , just give me legion of super pets

[comicstar100]

So more than anything its about the dcu against darkside without the help of the heroes from the fourth world. Should be interesting but couldn't they have just sent the new gods away instead of killing all of them?

[Buried Alien]

He says that the reboot thing has been before. When? COIE wasn't really a full reboot was it? Not everyone started from scratch if I understand what happened correctly.

Anyway, I'm sure that this book won't have anything big like a major death or reboot becasue he says that it's character driven like Infinite Crisis was, which had no big gimmick in it. And I think the final part probably refers to this being the last big event for a long long time.

Grant Morrison said there would be no continuity reboot, and I believe he will be true to his word on that.

HOWEVER, the caveat might be that FINAL CRISIS will be the end of the road for New Earth, and henceforth, the "mainstream" DCU will be Earth-1.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Will.S]

Grant Morrison said there would be no continuity reboot, and I believe he will be true to his word on that.

HOWEVER, the caveat might be that FINAL CRISIS will be the end of the road for New Earth, and henceforth, the "mainstream" DCU will be Earth-1.
So you think the reason why they haven't revealed Earth-1 was to sacrifice New Earth and make the stage for the Great Disaster to feasibly happen?

Hmm, interesting theory.

[Ilash]

I'm really looking forward to this. It seems like it will be relatively self-contained and I've been reading some of Morrison's JLA recently and I was reminded about how much this stuff is right up his alley. I would be surprised if it didn't have at least some elelments that are a bit obtuse and hard to follow but I'm really hoping that this will be be exactly the sort of thing that Morrison is so very good at - an epic, wildly imaginative cosmic superhero romp with great character moments.

I just hope that this is Grant Morrison doing his own thing rather than Dan Didio using Morrison t further screw around with the DCU's continuity - and the signs do seem to suggest that it will be the former.

[Will.S]

I'm really looking forward to this. It seems like it will be relatively self-contained and I've been reading some of Morrison's JLA recently and I was reminded about how much this stuff is right up his alley. I would be surprised if it didn't have at least some elelments that are a bit obtuse and hard to follow but I'm really hoping that this will be be exactly the sort of thing that Morrison is so very good at - an epic, wildly imaginative cosmic superhero romp with great character moments.

I just hope that this is Grant Morrison doing his own thing rather than Dan Didio using Morrison t further screw around with the DCU's continuity - and the signs do seem to suggest that it will be the former.
I can definitely see Final Crisis having the same vibe as Grant's JLA. It'll probably be a mix of Rock of Ages, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and Seven Soldiers.

[NotSuper]

Grant Morrison said there would be no continuity reboot, and I believe he will be true to his word on that.

HOWEVER, the caveat might be that FINAL CRISIS will be the end of the road for New Earth, and henceforth, the "mainstream" DCU will be Earth-1.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
That's what I think too. Furthermore, I think that "New Earth" will become "New Genesis" and the heroes on that Earth will become its gods. (The Hell planet in SALVATION RUN will become the new Apokolips.) And since almost everyone on this Earth will be dead, that adds more members to the Black Lanterns, which will still happen in that universe.

I see the stories staying on the post-Great Disaster New Earth until 2009, when Earth-1 becomes the mainstream DCU. Basically, doomsday for the DCU without a reboot.

[HotRod_Tim]

Somehow, I can see Final Crisis and everything ending up as the perfect DCU, with the amount of things DC's been throwing against the wall, I feel they're gonna take what sticks and make it the norm. maybe it's just me....

[botch]

I can definitely see Final Crisis having the same vibe as Grant's JLA. It'll probably be a mix of Rock of Ages, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and Seven Soldiers.


rock of ages still hurts my head.

[Ilash]

rock of ages still hurts my head.

Me too... but in a good way.

[octothorp]

Grant Morrison said there would be no continuity reboot, and I believe he will be true to his word on that.

HOWEVER, the caveat might be that FINAL CRISIS will be the end of the road for New Earth, and henceforth, the "mainstream" DCU will be Earth-1.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I concur (I think I might have posted the same thought either here or at Newsarama a few months ago). New Earth will undergo the "Great Disaster," and the untouched Earth-1 becomes the new DCU continuity. It would explain most of the teases that've been thrown our way since this whole thing began.

[botch]

I think it will be more like New Earth will 'grow' older and be all great disaster etc.

But Earth 1 won't be the new mainstream DCU but instead the classic Iconic DCU. Where Batman is still Bruce Wayne doing his thing. Where Superman is Clark Kent in a love triangle with Lois Lane and Superman etc.

But on New Earth Dick Grayson is Batman. I love this idea.

What else is there left to do in DC except the Apocalypse.

[ultramandingo]

.........if Morrison gets to change anything i hope its that horible Doom Patrol reboot - then send the Beardhunter after John Byrne.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/beardhunter.jpg

"He dispenses justice to those swaggering dandies who dare show their whiskers in public"

[carabas]

.........if Morrison gets to change anything i hope its that horible Doom Patrol reboot - then send the Beardhunter after John Byrne.Didn't Infinite Crisis wipe out most of the Byrne Patrol, with a not-dead Rita Farr being the only remnant of it?

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

if all the living things get shifted from new earth to earth 1 at the end, you'd explain why time passes and people don't age as quick (chalk it up to being inhabitants of a different earth, with different aging or time processes)

cheers,
rio

[carabas]

You might explain the JLA/JSA age difference away with that one, but not the ever diminshing age difference between Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson.

[HotRod_Tim]

You might explain the JLA/JSA age difference away with that one, but not the ever diminshing age difference between Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson.

Yeah..wtf? Now they are practically brothers.

[Flash230]

New Earth will undergo the "Great Disaster," and the untouched Earth-1 becomes the new DCU continuity. It would explain most of the teases that've been thrown our way since this whole thing began.

Like the "great superhero from the past" perhaps being Earth-1 Superman?

Assuming Final Crisis ushers out "New Earth" and brings back Earth-1 to the forefront in the main DC titles, from what point in Earth-1's history do you think the main titles will "re-start" ("re-starting" not being "re-booting", of course :p )

[Mangaman]

So does this mean Batman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, and JSA are the books with the most Final Crisis hints?

Those are all the books currently written by Morrison and Johns respectively

[Will.S]

So does this mean Batman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, and JSA are the books with the most Final Crisis hints?

Those are all the books currently written by Morrison and Johns respectively
They all certainly seem like a safe bets although I'm not sure to what extent the JSA title will be.

[Mangaman]

They all certainly seem like a safe bets although I'm not sure to what extent the JSA title will be.

JSA seems like it'll be a big part with Kingdom come Superman, and Gog and his connection to the fourth world

[HotRod_Tim]

Well, the interview was just with Grant Morrison, so I can't say anything about Johns' books. Although the Green/Alpha Lanterns are supposed to be a big part of Final Crisis.

[Choppa]

What are these hints to Earth-1?

And how do we even know that it exists? Because it's never been said that it doesn't exist?

And wtf would it even be? If New Earth is the pre-IC continuity mixed with Post-IC continuity, then is Earth-I Pre-IC continuity? Meaning that 52, OYL, etc never happened there?

[MattXG]

I think it will be more like New Earth will 'grow' older and be all great disaster etc.

But Earth 1 won't be the new mainstream DCU but instead the classic Iconic DCU. Where Batman is still Bruce Wayne doing his thing. Where Superman is Clark Kent in a love triangle with Lois Lane and Superman etc.

But on New Earth Dick Grayson is Batman. I love this idea.

What else is there left to do in DC except the Apocalypse.
This is EXACTLY what I've been hoping would happen. :D

Awesome.

[the-wolf]

Well, if there's no re-boot then I'm taking my bat and ball and going home. Just what DC needs - a big, stinking epic that puts the whole universe in mortal danger. Never seen that before! Yawn. The DCU is so convoluted and stale. The stories have all been told. Obviously. Time to grow up and try something new already.

[GRANT!]

Time to grow up and try something new already.

Are you talking about the DCU or yourself?

[carabas]

Well, if there's no re-boot then I'm taking my bat and ball and going home. Just what DC needs - a big, stinking epic that puts the whole universe in mortal danger. Never seen that before! Yawn. The DCU is so convoluted and stale. The stories have all been told. Obviously. Time to grow up and try something new already.Spide-Man's just had a semi-reboot. People are now complaining that the book looks like seventies reprints.
Rather than doing reboots followed by the same stories all over again, they should just take off the safety wheels. Let the DCU properly evolve without caring whether Bruce Wayne celebrates his 30th birthday again, or his 50th for a change.

[the-wolf]

Are you talking about the DCU or yourself?

HAR! Both actually. Sarcasm aside, my point is valid. You will see nothing new here. Plus, how exactly does one accomplish "doomsday" without any sort of re-boot?

[botch]

What are these hints to Earth-1?

And how do we even know that it exists? Because it's never been said that it doesn't exist?

And wtf would it even be? If New Earth is the pre-IC continuity mixed with Post-IC continuity, then is Earth-I Pre-IC continuity? Meaning that 52, OYL, etc never happened there?

Earth 1 is assumed to be the Iconic Earth. Where everything is at their most Iconic/Mythic. Silver Age without being cheesy. Bruce Wayne is a vigilante and Dick Grayson is Robin. Clark Kent is Superman wanting the affections of Lois Lane etc. Think Alex Ross and Braithwaite's Justice.

[botch]

So does this mean Batman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, and JSA are the books with the most Final Crisis hints?

Those are all the books currently written by Morrison and Johns respectively

Yes. They're molding the DCU and obviously they want things set up.

[the-wolf]

Spide-Man's just had a semi-reboot. People are now complaining that the book looks like seventies reprints.
Rather than doing reboots followed by the same stories all over again, they should just take off the safety wheels. Let the DCU properly evolve without caring whether Bruce Wayne celebrates his 30th birthday again, or his 50th for a change.

Yes. I totally agree. 2 points.

1) Marvel did the same thing with U. Spidey. That doesn't mean it has to be done. Batman, for example, could be re-tuned for a new era (without suffering through the origin) without having to repeat Joker killing JT or even having a Robin, let alone 3. Characters can be up-dated and made fresh without changing their core or doing re-treads. It just takes some imagination.

2) I liked the evolving universe. But then Superman came back from the dead, Bruce had his back magically (actually, it was even stupider than magic) healed, Green Arrow came back from the dead and so did Green Lantern.

Bye-bye Connor Hawke, bye-bye Kyle Rayner, hello Jason Todd. Which gives you the re-telling of stories in a different manner. And there's the rub. In order to do what you suggest in any sort of realistic sense these characters eventually need to age, injure and/or die.

Now, you could stop time and just tell stories without any sort of reference to time, but that doesn't really work either. How many people wish they were still reading Batman with a 10 year-old Dick Grayson?

New readers will come on, but you lose current readers who get bored. Which is why a comic universe should age and die. A complete re-launch every 20-25 years to bring in a new generation of readers for a charcter who has been up-dated for their generation.

As for long-time readers, they can either jump ship or after 40-50 years of collecting end up with 2 complete collections of a legendary character featuring 2 different interpretations of said character.

Which, when you look at the number of re-boots these characters have all had over the years anyways, and the number of stories that continually move into continuity and then suddenly they're not because they contradict another story, oh, but now they are because some writer loved that story when he was 5 and this Elseworlds tale is now canon and blah, blah, blah all because of the whims of the current writers and editors; well, my idea makes far more sense.

[Jon-El]

I'm all for an Iconic Earth. If the original Earth 1 is brought back then you would have to have Supergirl dead etc.... I want something untouched.

As far as comics evolving if there were more new readers coming in you wouldn't have to worry about it. That's another problem for another thread.

[Buried Alien]

I'm all for an Iconic Earth. If the original Earth 1 is brought back then you would have to have Supergirl dead etc.... I want something untouched.

Actually, if the new Earth-1 is indeed something akin to an "Iconic/Classic-Earth," then nobody of consequence ever dies. That was kind of a hallmark of the Silver/Bronze Age, wasn't it?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[NotSuper]

And how do we even know that it exists? Because it's never been said that it doesn't exist
In a Newsarama interview, Didio said we wouldn't see Earth-1 until 2009, meaning it exists.

And wtf would it even be? If New Earth is the pre-IC continuity mixed with Post-IC continuity, then is Earth-I Pre-IC continuity? Meaning that 52, OYL, etc never happened there?
It could be anything.

[Phoney Bone]

I'm all for an Iconic Earth. If the original Earth 1 is brought back then you would have to have Supergirl dead etc....

Not neccessarily. Supergirl died during the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Flash230]

Not neccessarily. Supergirl died during the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

And, perhaps, not only will the events of Final Crisis somehow prevent Kara from dying in the original COIE, but it may also change the events that lead to Barry's death.

[carabas]

And, perhaps, not only will the events of Final Crisis somehow prevent Kara from dying in the original COIE, but it may also change the events that lead to Barry's death.Considering that Barry Allen in all likelyhood currently finds himself somewhat alive but trapped in a small, copper rod in the hands of Brainiac 5, unlikely.

[MattXG]

Yes. I totally agree. 2 points.

1) Marvel did the same thing with U. Spidey. That doesn't mean it has to be done. Batman, for example, could be re-tuned for a new era (without suffering through the origin) without having to repeat Joker killing JT or even having a Robin, let alone 3. Characters can be up-dated and made fresh without changing their core or doing re-treads. It just takes some imagination.

2) I liked the evolving universe. But then Superman came back from the dead, Bruce had his back magically (actually, it was even stupider than magic) healed, Green Arrow came back from the dead and so did Green Lantern.

Bye-bye Connor Hawke, bye-bye Kyle Rayner, hello Jason Todd. Which gives you the re-telling of stories in a different manner. And there's the rub. In order to do what you suggest in any sort of realistic sense these characters eventually need to age, injure and/or die.

Now, you could stop time and just tell stories without any sort of reference to time, but that doesn't really work either. How many people wish they were still reading Batman with a 10 year-old Dick Grayson?

New readers will come on, but you lose current readers who get bored. Which is why a comic universe should age and die. A complete re-launch every 20-25 years to bring in a new generation of readers for a charcter who has been up-dated for their generation.

As for long-time readers, they can either jump ship or after 40-50 years of collecting end up with 2 complete collections of a legendary character featuring 2 different interpretations of said character.

Which, when you look at the number of re-boots these characters have all had over the years anyways, and the number of stories that continually move into continuity and then suddenly they're not because they contradict another story, oh, but now they are because some writer loved that story when he was 5 and this Elseworlds tale is now canon and blah, blah, blah all because of the whims of the current writers and editors; well, my idea makes far more sense.
HAHA!

I've been saying this ever since the Ultimate line started. The old diehards HATE me for suggesting it.

However, lately, I think it a better idea to just let the universe completely evolve for all of time rather than just re-starting it every couple of years.

I mean, look at Batgirl. She was Barb Gordon way back when and that made sense for that era. Then, she's injured permanently and she no longer could be Batgirl. A new Batgirl rises up. Totally different from Barb Gordon but every bit as fascinating.

This is the way it should be. They should let Bruce die or grow old and have to give it up. They should let one of the Robin's take over or there could be no Batman for a while until a new guy that the old robins don't even know just says "Hey, the city needs a Batman." and he starts being Batman.

[Choppa]

Earth 1 is assumed to be the Iconic Earth. Where everything is at their most Iconic/Mythic. Silver Age without being cheesy. Bruce Wayne is a vigilante and Dick Grayson is Robin. Clark Kent is Superman wanting the affections of Lois Lane etc. Think Alex Ross and Braithwaite's Justice.

Did Dan say all of this too?

In a Newsarama interview, Didio said we wouldn't see Earth-1 until 2009, meaning it exists.

It could be anything.

So do we know anything else other than that it exists? I assume that IC only happened on New Earth. So basically Earth-1 would be the same thing except IC didn't happen. Make sense?

[the-wolf]

HAHA!


re-starting it every couple of years.





More like every couple of decades.

[Shellhead]

HAHA!

I've been saying this ever since the Ultimate line started. The old diehards HATE me for suggesting it.


I don't mind the basic concept of starting over in a different reality, while retaining the best and most iconic concepts of the original. My problem with Marvel's Ultimate line was that too many characters were re-made as jerks and losers.

[NotSuper]

Did Dan say all of this too?
No.

So do we know anything else other than that it exists?
We don't know anything about it. It could literally be anything. Right now it's a blank canvas.

[Walter West]

Considering that Barry Allen in all likelyhood currently finds himself somewhat alive but trapped in a small, copper rod in the hands of Brainiac 5, unlikely.

Nope, it was already stated by Dan Didio that someone else is in the lightning rod.

[carabas]

Nope, it was already stated by Dan Didio that someone else is in the lightning rod.I tend to take statements like 'It's not Barry Allen' and 'We're not magicking the unmasking away' from editors in chief about future plotlines with more than a pinch of salt.
If it were, he wouldn't say it, and if itweren't, he most likely still wouldn't say it.