Is Wolverine still one of the Most Marketable Characters in comics?

[worstblogever]

Alright, everyone. There's a debate that's been going on that I'd like some input on... humor me... and vote using your head, not your heart. This might seem like an easy point to concede, and a waste of time, but I figured I'd put it to the court of public opinion.

Would you say that Wolverine is still a draw within the comic book industry?

Do his solo series (Wolverine and Wolverine: Origins) still sell well, whatever their quality might be?

Do team books featuring Wolverine sell better than ones without him?

Does the fact that he is given so many chances to appear in different Marvel Comics (be it team books, his own, or just guest appearances) mean even they acknowledge he is a marketable character that there is a demand by the readership for?

Does the fact that he's used in so many merchandising tie-ins, (video games, toys, posters, t-shirts, etc.) also indicate that he's marketable and there's a demand for him?

Is the fact that the new X-Men Animated Series is titled "Wolverine and the X-Men" an indicator that someone in the entertainment industry thinks he's the most marketable member of the X-Men franchise?

Is the fact that the X-Men movie trilogy gave Wolverine the most screen time, and that the first spinoff movie from it is "Wolverine" indicate that Hollywood would think he's the most marketable character in the X-Franchise?

Would you say Wolverine is relatively as marketable and iconic at this juncture as Spider-Man, Batman, Hulk, Superman, or other comic book icons? (Further data to follow in posts to support the argument based off of sales charts from the past six months).

Again, the poll is an overall gauge for if Wolverine brings in the money... is their a demand for him that fans are willing to pay for...

[worstblogever]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12840

December 2007 Sales. Top 10 books featuring Wolverine? Three. (third: New Avengers #37, fourth: Uncanny X-Men #493, seventh: X-Men #206.) His solo title came in at #25.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12677

November 2007 sales. Top Ten books featuring Wolverine? Four. (second: Astonishing X-Men #23, third: New Avengers #36, fifth: Uncanny X-Men #492, eighth: X-Men #205.) Solo book came in at #23.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12510

October 2007 Sales. Top 10 books featuring Wolverine? Five. (first: New Avengers #35, sixth: X-Men: Messiah Complex One Shot, eighth: Marvel Zombies 2 #1, ninth: Uncanny X-Men #492, tenth: Wolverine #58.) Solo book at #10.

Within the past three months his solo book has been in the top ten. This in spite of it not being tied into any of the Marvel crossovers it opposed (WWH, Secret Invasion, or Messiah CompleX) and he's consistently in team books in the top 10.

[worstblogever]

Let's just crunch some numbers on just the solo books of icons. In October, Wolverine's three titles sold a combined 198,702 total units, for an average of 66,234. Compare that to the biggest Marvel crossover of the year, World War Hulk. It's conclusion issue, and Incredible Hulk #111 sold a total of 300,402 units. Now, you could argue that WWH #5 was a universal event, not just a Hulk event by your definition of "team book". How did some of the other icons fare?

Spidey- 1 book, 100,262. for 100,262 average.
Superman- 5 books, 249,265 for 49,853 average.
Hulk- 3 books, 300,402 for a 100,134 average.
Captain America- 2 books, 121,771 for 60,885 average
Iron Man- 1 book, 34,347 for 34,347 average.
Batman- 4 books, 276,791 for a 69,198 average.

Therefore, his total book sales were higher than 2 of these 6 iconic characters. His average books sales were higher than 3 of these other big 6 iconic characters, if not competitive with them. And if you consider WWH boost... he might be higher than 3 of 6, and 4 of 6 on any other month.

[worstblogever]

September 2007 sales... http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12221


#9 (Uncanny X-Men: 85,552 WITH the big Magneto reveal. Right at its heels? #10 Wolverine: 83,726. BUT! At #25 (consistent)59,990 Wolverine: Origins. Meaning, solo books with Wolverine sold 143,716 units that month. These are the sales figures that don't give any book the benefit of a big crossover, and Wolverine was neck and neck with Uncanny. Origins pushes his total revenue generated past it, far and away.

Who in Marvel moves more total units? Over the average year? Probably Spidey. Sometimes Hulk, sometimes not. And... That's it. Who in DC moves more? Apparently just Batman. Sometimes Superman, sells more on the average book, sometimes not.

[Teh m0nk3y]

I voted for the first option. I´m not a Wolverine fan, but only a blind man would say that Logan´s solo adventures doesn´t sell. Whether his books have fantastic or poor creative teams, he´s had better sales than most iconic solo characters out there. This is without taking into acount the merchandise.

[worstblogever]

I voted for the first option. I´m not a Wolverine fan, but only a blind man would say that Logan´s solo adventures doesn´t sell. Whether his books have fantastic or poor creative teams, he´s had better sales than most iconic solo characters out there. This is without taking into acount the merchandise.

I might acknowledge the quality of his solo books isn't what it once was... but I'll be damned if he's not still moving books. And definitely the merchandise. Thanks for the input!

[Captain Yesterday]

Yes, wolverine sells comics and merchandise. Purely based on what I've observed at my LCS.

Also based on the way Marvel treats the character. He's never out of work.

Plus a quick google search for the word Wolverine, without any extra parameters, returned the character eight out of the first ten sites. The actual non-fictional Wolverine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine) appears at no. eleven on the list.

My evidence is entirely circumstantial, and my reasoning is non-existent...but this is kind of a no-brainer: Wolverine is popular. (because stabbing people, while being grumpy about having to stab them, sells comics) :D

But it shouldn't be the only thing that sells.

[HepOne]

I think it was a mistake to ask the readers on THIS forum. He is one of the most hated characters on this forum, but unlike others (like Emma) only has 2/3 fans that comment regularly. If you search for discussion threads about recent issues of Wolverine/Wolverine Origins they will very rarely go on longer than 2 pages. Shortpack/Dazzler/dead jean and the Nasty Girls all have more contructive threads. It is now uncool to like him.

To answer your question- YES on all fronts

[worstblogever]

I think it was a mistake to ask the readers on THIS forum. He is one of the most hated characters on this forum, but unlike others (like Emma) only has 2/3 fans that comment regularly. If you search for discussion threads about recent issues of Wolverine/Wolverine Origins they will very rarely go on longer than 2 pages. Shortpack/Dazzler/dead jean and the Nasty Girls all have more contructive threads. It is now uncool to like him.

To answer your question- YES on all fronts

Appreciate the sentiment. Really, it's not about the haters vs. the lovers. It's just about if he's one of the biggest marketable icons. So far, I'm still waiting for someone to make an argument that says he's not. Hopefully, personal bias won't come into play on what I hoped would be an objective question.

Thanks for voting!

[Your Imaginary Pal]

he's a special ops, secret agent, samurai, ninja with a fragmented past and a tortured soul. He's got a metal coated skeleton and 6 claws, a foot long each that pop out of hist knuckles. He's 5'3" hairy, he smokes cigars, is unpleasant, crass and offensive. In his first appearance he fought the Hulk.
that's like Spud Webb fighting Shaq. He kills without mercy and cannot die.
what's not to like?

edit:
plus he sniffs people.

[Brian M.]

Well I don't see Millar/McNiven on a book featuring Magneto so.....yea, I'd say he's still pretty damn marketable.

[worstblogever]

Well I don't see Millar/McNiven on a book featuring Magneto so.....yea, I'd say he's still pretty damn marketable.

You totally just made me not regret voting you for X-Poster of the month.

[timbox]

I think the answer is fairly obvious, and I'm pretty sure you knew how this poll was going to turn out.

The Wolverine haters have their reasons, I suppose. I don't really see being a popular character or being in too many books as great reasons to hate him, but I can see people being upset that Wolverine is used so much. Why Wolverine and not their favorite character instead… or maybe upset about an over-powered healing factor?

Wolverine is popular and popular sells. Your Imaginary Pal listed reasons why people like him and I think another is that he's just a cool guy to have around. Writers also have a lot of freedom with stories involving him because he's so resilient. You can put him threw hell and not have to worry about killing off a character. Shoot him in the face, burn him, crush him... lots of stories to tell.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

Well I don't see Millar/McNiven on a book featuring Magneto so.....yea, I'd say he's still pretty damn marketable.

The Millar/McNiven contribution convinced me to pick up the title. Wolverine's upcoming solo movie won't hurt his appeal either.

[darknessatnoon]

Technically, yes. He is a marketable draw. But not to me. I am actually repelled by him due to over-exposure.

[Mikl C]

Lol at the poll results.

[worstblogever]

Lol at the poll results.

ROFLMAO when they get submitted to my debate opponent. And... nobody has yet submitted any factual or numeric evidence to indicate he's NOT a draw yet. :D

[darknessatnoon]

ROFLMAO when they get submitted to my debate opponent. And... nobody has yet submitted any factual or numeric evidence to indicate he's NOT a draw yet. :D

I'm sure he is a draw. If he weren't, Marvel wouldn't be shoving him down people's throats. I'm just sad that he is a draw.

[worstblogever]

I'm sure he is a draw. If he weren't, Marvel wouldn't be shoving him down people's throats. I'm just sad that he is a draw.

So... this means you voted option #1, then, albeit regrettably?

[darksaint124]

The mark of a cash cow character. His books has been horrible for a few months and what do they do. You guessed it, they gave him 2 more. I remember throwing a comment out there that I think somehow started this. How can anyone NOT think Wolverine is a good draw?

[worstblogever]

The mark of a cash cow character. His books has been horrible for a few months and what do they do. You guessed it, they gave him 2 more. I remember throwing a comment out there that I think somehow started this. How can anyone NOT think Wolverine is a good draw?

Well... there are those who choose other paths in life, other than acceptance.
http://www.westwiltshire.gov.uk/Bins/fraud/pics/10.gif

[darksaint124]

Well... there are those who choose other paths in life, other than acceptance.
http://www.westwiltshire.gov.uk/Bins/fraud/pics/10.gif

Lmfao. That is pure win.:D

[darknessatnoon]

So... this means you voted option #1, then, albeit regrettably?

Yep, that's where my vote went. I enjoy clicking on those polls.

ERROR:

Oh, wait no! I voted against him. Because he is not a draw to me.

[worstblogever]

Yep, that's where my vote went. I enjoy clicking on those polls.

ERROR:

Oh, wait no! I voted against him. Because he is not a draw to me.

Well, I'll consider it in the final tally. It wasn't meant to be a question of "for you" (to which, I support your opinion of not liking Wolverine), but a question of "overall, does he have a great ability to generate money for Marvel".

But I appreciate the honesty.

[Optic Rage!]

The obvious reply is the first one.

I have no beef with Logan...when written well he is a great X-Man.

I actually like him, i read his solo and Orgins[it sucks, i know] and i will be picking up ''Logan'' to.

However, i cant rember what issue it was in, but when nitro burned his skin of and he healed in about 5 seconds.

That was HORRIBLE, I was like ''are you kidding me?????''

The writer should be ashamed.

[jmc247]

Crave Online: With Wolverine, Magneto, Thor and such in the works, are there any you’re particularly excited about?

Stan Lee: I am excited about the Wolverine one, Magneto especially because we’ve seen a lot of Wolverine. I feel we haven’t seen enough of Magneto, who’s one of my favorite characters.

http://www.craveonline.com/articles/comics/04648271/excelsior_stan_lee_speaks.html


I am with Stan.

[MarvelGirlBoy]

Essentially the first option is the most accurate answer, but I voted the second simply because of the "as": I don't think he's quite at the comic-pulling power of the 90s and early 00s any more, but I don't think we'll see the effects of this for a while - by which time he may have been reinvigorated. He's certainly still marketable, but I get the feeling that the recent explosion of Logan comics is actually an indication of a slight decline that Marvel are trying to fix.

Could be wrong though - maybe I'm just being hopeful that audiences are actually tired of him as an exception, at last.

[rwsmith]

ROFLMAO when they get submitted to my debate opponent. And... nobody has yet submitted any factual or numeric evidence to indicate he's NOT a draw yet. :D

Do you really think this will convince that mental midget of anything? He is a delusional nutcase and you are seriously wasting your time. I started to respond to one of his idiotic posts yesterday, but then thought better of it and just walked away.

Don't feed the trolls.

[darksaint124]

Do you really think this will convince that mental midget of anything? He is a delusional nutcase and you are seriously wasting your time. I started to respond to one of his idiotic posts yesterday, but then thought better of it and just walked away.

Don't feed the trolls.

Quoted for Supreme Intelligence, oh yeah, and truth.

[Croaker]

When I was a kid, Wolverine was a favorite character of mine. As I grew older, he lost some appeal. Then, I was tired of what I considered over exposure and blatant money grubbing. Later still, I loved to hate him but was quite happy Marvel was making money off of him.

Now, I am jumping back on the Wolverine bandwagon. Not so much because of the character, but because Jason Aaron is going to be writing him. He's back on my pull list. If Aaron can make him an interesting character again, great! If Aaron's run is short and doesn't do much for the character, then I'll likely drop Wolverine again and love to hate him still.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that he sells extermely well both in comic books and as a merchandising machine.

[frog]

Yep, that's where my vote went. I enjoy clicking on those polls.

ERROR:

Oh, wait no! I voted against him. Because he is not a draw to me.

The question was not whether he's a draw to you individually but whether he's a draw to the markets in general.

I'm not a particular fan of Wolverine, especially on his own. He's okay as a team player - see the current Logan, Peter and Kurt story in Uncanny. But I'm not going to deny that he sells.

[darknessatnoon]

The question was not whether he's a draw to you individually but whether he's a draw to the markets in general.

I'm not a particular fan of Wolverine, especially on his own. He's okay as a team player - see the current Logan, Peter and Kurt story in Uncanny. But I'm not going to deny that he sells.

I know how to read. And the question didn't specify.

[frog]

I know how to read. And the question didn't specify.

Well, I'm sorry that you don't know how to correctly interpret. When there isn't a specification the logical conclusion is aiming for a general market.

[darknessatnoon]

Well, I'm sorry that you don't know how to correctly interpret. When there isn't a specification the logical conclusion is aiming for a general market.

I can only extrapolate about the general market from my gut.

Is my 1 vote against the 33 driving you crazy?

[frog]

I can only extrapolate about the general market from my gut.

Is my 1 vote against the 33 driving you crazy?

Nope. If facts and statistics can't make you see the truth it's your problem.

[Bic]

For me it's not the idea of Wolverine's popularity that's played out but the Wolverine backlash that's played out. Because he is still the most recent super hero that's managed to make the transistion into the larger world of popular culture he's going to get some flak whether it's warranted or not.

[darknessatnoon]

Nope. If facts and statistics can't make you see the truth it's your problem.

Let's pray that one day I see the light about Wolverine merchandising.

[frog]

For me it's not the idea of Wolverine's popularity that's played out but the Wolverine backlash that's played out. Because he is still the most recent super hero that's managed to make the transistion into the larger world of popular culture he's going to get some flak whether it's warranted or not.

Yes, it's a little like when an underground musical act starts getting truly popular. The fans that felt like they were their own little secret discovery sometimes tend to react by withdrawing.

[Nyssane]

I think Spidey's more marketable.

[darksaint124]

I think Spidey's more marketable.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you been reading Spider-Man. It's a train wreck right now.

[ShaggyB]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you been reading Spider-Man. It's a train wreck right now.

And yet Spidey is still popular Culturally speaking. I saw Spidey 3, it was terrible. I bought Spidey box set in Blu-ray, Spidey 3 is still piss poor.

OMD was bad, like really bad. Yet i own it.

BND isnt terrible its just not awesome either. Need to set the status quo up better than just in spideys book sense he like wolvie is everywhere. Dont get me going on how Goblin and Venom just forgot who he is even though thats the define'n characteristic of the characters.

[Jackob]

i bought 4 books today, and logan was in three of them, and i couldnt be more pleased about it.

[Brian M.]

i bought 4 books today, and logan was in three of them, and i couldnt be more pleased about it.

Yup. 3 of the 6 books I bought had Wolverine in them. All 3 were near the top of my read list.

[frog]

No matter how much what is happening with Spidey and Wolverine that displeases a hardcore group of fans the majority of people who go to movies and buy comics on a more casual basis are going to remain fans of those characters.

[ShaggyB]

i bought 4 books today, and logan was in three of them, and i couldnt be more pleased about it.

what did you get? Obviously Wolverine.... lol

[Jake V]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you been reading Spider-Man. It's a train wreck right now.

Whatever is going on in Spider-Man comic books is completely irrelevant in terms of his larger mainstream popularity.

Amazing Spider-Man can attract MAYBE 100,000 people, but the movies had audiences in the tens of millions.

[Jackob]

what did you get? Obviously Wolverine.... lol

new avengers, x-force, wolverine(with wolverine) and x-factor

[ShaggyB]

new avengers, x-force, wolverine(with wolverine) and x-factor

Ahhh thats what im forgetting, X-Force #1 is out today. thanx yo

[worstblogever]

I think Spidey's more marketable.

And there is data that would show you might not be wrong in that opinion. Spidey's got an advantage Wolverine doesn't have... he's easier to market to children. He rules the 5-15 age bracket, just because parents are more comfortable with their kid watching shows about and having the toys and books of a guy who shoots webs and teaches them about responsibility, as opposed to the swearing, cigar-smoking, beer-swilling, constantly-foe-stabbing enigma that is Wolverine.

Not an unacceptable answer... but still... is Wolverine a draw, regardless... not THE biggest draw, but a draw...?

[frog]

And there is data that would show you might not be wrong in that opinion. Spidey's got an advantage Wolverine doesn't have... he's easier to market to children. He rules the 5-15 age bracket, just because parents are more comfortable with their kid watching shows about and having the toys and books of a guy who shoots webs and teaches them about responsibility, as opposed to the swearing, cigar-smoking, beer-swilling, constantly-foe-stabbing enigma that is Wolverine.

Not an unacceptable answer... but still... is Wolverine a draw, regardless... not THE biggest draw, but a draw...?

Yes.

Want more proof? Go to comic oriented websites with search engines that list the most common searches. Look at what names pop up.

[Diablito]

Yes, he is marketable both in terms of comics, and merchandise sales.

[Jackob]

i think that he probably isnt mavels most maketable, that is spider-man, but it is not like he is a bumb on a log. spidey and wolvie are marvels superman and batman in terms of marketability.

he might be in alot of things but that is because he sells

[Jack Flash]

I think Spidey's more marketable.

My kiddo, who hasn't seen any movies with either Spidey or Wolvie in them, loves them both. But loves Spider-man more. borders on obsessed with Spider-man. and I don't even read Spider-man comics! well not often. well I do read ultimate Spidey. damnit I am a liar! Foiled again!

[Joe Franklin]

While Wolverine is no Sabretooth, he is the most marketable Marvel character next to only Spiderman.:cool:

[worstblogever]

While Wolverine is no Sabretooth, he is the most marketable Marvel character next to only Spiderman.:cool:

Would you say that Spidey beats him primarily because he's easier to market to kids? (Until Christian groups get word that he made a deal with the devil and boycott?)

[Jackob]

Would you say that Spidey beats him primarily because he's easier to market to kids? (Until Christian groups get word that he made a deal with the devil and boycott?)

at least he didnt get an evil divorce

[worstblogever]

at least he didnt get an evil divorce

Yeah, Henry VIII's popularity never quite recovered from that, either.

[Frodo-X]

He's the best there is at what he does.

And what he does is sell $h!t.

Yes, Spider-man is better at it, but it wouldn't be as fun to say he's second-best at what he does...that's not his line. Jeez, way to kill my joke, nitpicker!

[Joe Franklin]

Would you say that Spidey beats him primarily because he's easier to market to kids? (Until Christian groups get word that he made a deal with the devil and boycott?)

Yes. Spidey is overall more kid friendly then Wolverine is.

[worstblogever]

Yes. Spidey is overall more kid friendly then Wolverine is.

Fair enough.

Incidentally, I'd like to thank you, Joe, and everyone else for making this probably the most civil discussion of any topic I've seen in awhile. Even when people have had differing opinions, we've managed to acknowledge the reasons why people have voted as they did.

So... thanks to everyone, so far.

[Frodo-X]

Fair enough.

Incidentally, I'd like to thank you, Joe, and everyone else for making this probably the most civil discussion of any topic I've seen in awhile. Even when people have had differing opinions, we've managed to acknowledge the reasons why people have voted as they did.

So... thanks to everyone, so far.
Shut up, doodyhead! :p


You can put me down for thinking it's the kid-friendliness that puts Spidey over the top, as well. Though I would add that there's probably something to be said for the fact that while many like Wolverine because he's a badass that they themselves might wish they were, or merely just enjoy reading, Spider-man has the relatability that Wolverine lacks. I mean, how many people can honestly say they relate to Wolverine? That's probably just the icing on the kid-friendly cake for Spidey.

[Just a Shadow]

When it comes to the comics, I think he does well but isn't a particularly powerful force to be reckoned with. His own comics sell fairly well (as a matter of fact i buy them too) but I don't believe the comics that do well that he guest stars in are boosted into the top 25 due to his presence. I think that some of those titles, such as the X-Men books would likely sell just as well without his presence. I think the same is true of New Avengers. I believe he was originally placed on the team to help sales (which is true of spider-man as well), but if he left the book I don't think that the sales would be terribly hurt.

I think the reason for this is that as comic fans, we're not as nuts about him as the general populace. Most people (i.e. non-comic readers) don't give a damn about the other X-Men. Wolverine is the guy that they've latched onto and fallen for. As a consequence, entertainment media outside of the comics themselves will have a pronounced focus on Wolverine. We've seen it in the 3 X-Men movies and we'll see it again in the upcoming cartoon. It's simply clever marketing.

Wolverine's success in film and cartoons leads to other marketing revenues. His being so well known means his visage is on so many other products designed for audiences that are wider than the comic reading audience.

On the other hand, comic fans have been around him for decades. He is no longer all that novel. I for one happen to enjoy his comics right now, but I think that part of the reason for that is that I feel that in comics there are many alternatives to him. There are a lot of x-books out there, not every one of them has wolverine. There're a lot of Avengers-Family titles, once more, note every one of them has wolverine. Sure he shows up in a lot of places, but he's also pretty easy to avoid as well. In my opinion, his overexposure is primarily within the non-comic media that the x-men are in.

So I voted the second option. I think he's a potential goldmine for merchandise because of his mainstream popularity. On the other hand, i don't think he's an indomitable force to be reckoned with within the comic selling world (and i hope people don't try to say that means i think he's unsuccessful, because i clearly did not say that).

[creaky]

I mean, how many people can honestly say they relate to Wolverine?

I doubt anyone can relate to him entirely, but there are aspects of him that are easily relatable: alienation, self-loathing, anger issues etc.

[creaky]

*sigh* double post.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

September 2007 sales... http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12221


#9 (Uncanny X-Men: 85,552 WITH the big Magneto reveal. Right at its heels? #10 Wolverine: 83,726. BUT! At #25 (consistent)59,990 Wolverine: Origins. Meaning, solo books with Wolverine sold 143,716 units that month. These are the sales figures that don't give any book the benefit of a big crossover, and Wolverine was neck and neck with Uncanny. Origins pushes his total revenue generated past it, far and away.

Who in Marvel moves more total units? Over the average year? Probably Spidey. Sometimes Hulk, sometimes not. And... That's it. Who in DC moves more? Apparently just Batman. Sometimes Superman, sells more on the average book, sometimes not.


LOL@the Magneto reveal as if it was of House of M proportions.

[Jackob]

LOL@the Magneto reveal as if it was of House of M proportions.

well if magneto is a huge draw like some people say he is than shoulndt that have been like a huge sales boost?
looks like he isnt as big a draw as people thought.

its not like its magnetos first aperence in like 2 years or any thing.

[Num48champ]

There's a reason Marvel has him in most of their books.:rolleyes:

[Luck911]

Wolverine is not the top draw in comics because Marvel use it big time artist else where.Wolverine has not been supported by some of the the strongest creative team imo.All Marvel needs to is put a top artist and decent writer and wolverine jumps to 1-3 spot every month instead just hovering around the top ten.

[Brian M.]

Wolverine is not top draw in comics because Marvel use it big time artist else where.Wolverine has not been supported by some of the the strongest creative team imo.All Marvel needs to is put a top artist and decent writer and wolverine jumps to 1-3 spot every month instead just hovering around the top ten.

If only there was someone like Millar and McNiven to come and take over the book for a run...

[Croaker]

Wolverine is not top draw in comics because Marvel use it big time artist else where.Wolverine has not been supported by some of the the strongest creative team imo.All Marvel needs to is put a top artist and decent writer and wolverine jumps to 1-3 spot every month instead just hovering around the top ten.

We should see sooon enough. The latest issue of Wolverine had great art and a fantastic writer on board.

[Crimson]

If only there was someone like Millar and McNiven to come and take over the book for a run...

For an arc.

The Wolverine book has no direction. They get someone on the book and they do one good arc... and then leave.

[Brian M.]

For an arc.

The Wolverine book has no direction. They get someone on the book and they do one good arc... and then leave.

Fine with me.

It's given us gems like Millar/JRjr, Guggenheim/Ramos, Aaron/Garney, Millar/McNiven...I see no problem with this. Good, semi-self contained stories work best imo when writing about Wolverine.

[jmc247]

well if magneto is a huge draw like some people say he is than shoulndt that have been like a huge sales boost?
looks like he isnt as big a draw as people thought.


Him appearing on one or two pages looking old as dirt isn't likely to motivate fans to buy it. And, given his face wasn't even on the cover of the issue, I doubt most casual Magneto fans who do browse the comic shops from time to time would have even known he was there.

Magneto has a huge number of casual fans. I know a number of them even ones living in Egypt and other countries who I have talked to about comics, but aren't part of online fandom and don't show up in the comics shop each week waiting for Magneto. Which would be pretty difficult because he has been in limbo for over two years. In the three X-Men films he recieved the second most screen time next to Wolverine and he like Wolverine is getting his own big budget film.

[Jackob]

Him appearing on one or two pages looking old as dirt isn't likely to motivate fans to buy it. And, given his face wasn't even on the cover of the issue, I doubt most casual Magneto fans who do browse the comic shops from time to time would have even known he was there.

Magneto has a huge number of casual fans. I know a number of them even ones living in Egypt and other countries who I have talked to about comics, but aren't part of online fandom and don't show up in the comics shop each week waiting for Magneto. Which would be pretty difficult because he has been in limbo for over two years. In the three X-Men films he recieved the second most screen time next to Wolverine and he like Wolverine is getting his own big budget film.

but wolverine is going to have way more casual fans than magneto because, he is a hero, he does show up alot, giving people a chance to become a fan, and he is very popular.

no wolverine cant give giant sales boosts for times when he shows up, because it isnt special when he does. but the things that he is in sells consitantly high. he has many hardcore fans and many more hardcore fans. magneto is the x-men number one villan, but it he is not a headliner, he couldnt suport a solo book, let alone 2 solos, 3 team books and help guest aperances. no magneto is just like birthday cake , it is realy good once a year, but you cant eat it every day. wolverine is someone that can be taken alot.

[jmc247]

but wolverine is going to have way more casual fans than magneto because, he is a hero, he does show up alot, giving people a chance to become a fan, and he is very popular.

Trying to quantify how many casual fans out there support Magneto or Wolverine is a fools errand. Marvel has an idea thanks to polling data, which is why they ok'ed big budget Wolverine and Magneto films at the same time. The other X-films they are thinking about doing like for Juggs will be very low budget direct to DVD things.

That said there are far more hard core Wolverine fans out there and they are kept happy with lots of comics from Marvel and they show up to the comic book stores on a regular basis knowing they will get to see Wolverine in action.

[Waterlily]

Well, all I have to say is that Wolverine's likeness is on my son's underwear. Mind you, it's supposed to be Spiderman underwear.

[Maestro]

His solo movie will sell as least as much as the X-Men films.

[Optic Rage!]

I doubt it.

In fact ill be very suprised it if makes nearly anything near the amount X3 did.

Considering the amount of hype X3 had and the amount of hype this movie has.

Not to mention that the hardcore people who are not Wolverine fans wont go will make a diffrince, not much but you will see it.

[frog]

I doubt it.

In fact ill be very suprised it if makes nearly anything near the amount X3 did.

Considering the amount of hype X3 had and the amount of hype this movie has.

Not to mention that the hardcore people who are not Wolverine fans wont go will make a diffrince, not much but you will see it.

Yes, but what about the Jackman fans? Is he still riding the wave of popularity?

[Optic Rage!]

Not nearly as much as he was.

I can only speak from my own point of view, but put it this way, all of my friends who went to see x3 with me dont plan to go see Wolverine, and instead plan to wait for it on dvd.

The same go's for me.

However it might not be the same in the states, Huge Jackman aint even that popular over here.

[frog]

Not nearly as much as he was.

I can only speak from my own point of view, but put it this way, all of my friends who went to see x3 with me dont plan to go see Wolverine, and instead plan to wait for it on dvd.

The same go's for me.

However it might not be the same in the states, Huge Jackman aint even that popular over here.


It seems like he was really enjoying popularity here for a while, but I'm not sure if he's as big of a draw as he was.

[Just a Shadow]

Personally I think that in general we'll see a lot of the people going to Wolverine that went to X3.

I think that Wolverine if done and marketed correctly could appeal to a wider audience than X3 because it can be less of a superhero movie and more of an action film. If they stick to characters like Wolvie and Sabretooth, the powers aren't as glitzy and colorful as what you see in X-Men, so it can be a lot grittier and dark. Mind you, I have no idea if that is actually what they're doing...

So in the end, i think it'll make a comparable amount to the X-movies.

[Optic Rage!]

See, from my experience and the thing that attracted people to the previous x-movies was the amazing set pieces & SFX shown in the trailers.

Like I remember talking to my friends about their favourite action or set pieces from the movies, and aside from X1, I don’t hear much about him other then he was the main character.

For instance, Magneto destroying the golden gate bridge and Storms tornados in x2 and Kurt’s attack on the White house

They have done everything they can with Wolverine, I don’t see how they can make him fresh or even have him come any were close to competing with the amazing set pieces & SFX in x3.

I’m not saying it definitely wont make anywhere near the amount of money as X3, I just don’t think it will.

[worstblogever]

LOL@the Magneto reveal as if it was of House of M proportions.

What's funny is... YOU yourself found it important to link House of M to that the story back when Uncanny #491 came out. :rolleyes:

Whining will do nothing. Brubaker isn't going anywhere. It's all been worked out. Brubaker and Carey are the top guys behind Messiah Complex. The whole story led to Uncanny's incluision into next month's Messiah Complex. Hell, Bru is writing the one shot and the second chapter next month. All of this incessant lying about "characters moving on" won't change the fact that he set this up perfectly.:D Skids being the piece from his past to keep Tony Stark from getting to have the books that has future on goings about the fate of mutantkind? Wonderful. Why all the heroes are punking each other out in NY with the Hulk as the main gladiator, Magneto gets the drop and keeps on with his business with no one knowing a damn thing.

In House of M #7, Magneto didn't even know Wanda was alive after seeing her shattered. All he knew was that Pietro tried to use his name and image as a point to hide behind when the heroes came looking for vindication. And that's when Wanda sneak attacked him. That's when she won and defeated all of mutantkind. And she hasn't paid the price nor does it look like she will pay the price anytime soon.

Also, you told everyone how Messiah CompleX would have Magneto because Ed Brubaker knew without him, the crossover wouldn't have the boost. It did add about oh, 30,000 sales a month to X-Factor, and New X-Men.

You don't care about the top draw in the X-books but the main buyers will who get the Messiah Complex. So Bru can't lose, no matter how you cut it. It's perfect.

And in fact, you took the time later in that thread to compare Age of Apocalypse to Uncanny #491 as being an important Magneto landmark.

So... keep laughing out loud at yourself, hypocrite. ;)

[MNM]

I doubt it.

In fact ill be very suprised it if makes nearly anything near the amount X3 did.

Considering the amount of hype X3 had and the amount of hype this movie has.

Not to mention that the hardcore people who are not Wolverine fans wont go will make a diffrince, not much but you will see it.

Wolverine's movie isnt out for another year, plenty of time to build the hype, add in the fact that for most casual fans, they will simply see it as "oh, another x-men movie" and go and see it anyway. While it may not end up making as much as X3, it will make a lot of money.

[Jackob]

I doubt it.

In fact ill be very suprised it if makes nearly anything near the amount X3 did.

Considering the amount of hype X3 had and the amount of hype this movie has.

Not to mention that the hardcore people who are not Wolverine fans wont go will make a diffrince, not much but you will see it.

i dont think that some one that is framiliar with comics enought to hate wolverine is going to make up a significant amount of the movie going poplulation. they dont make the movies for comic fans and i dont think that wolverine haters are going to show up.

[worstblogever]

i dont think that some one that is framiliar with comics enought to hate wolverine is going to make up a significant amount of the movie going poplulation. they dont make the movies for comic fans and i dont think that wolverine haters are going to show up.

Well... that might depend on cameos, and the villains, though. And if the trailer shows INSANE action and fighting sequences.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

What's funny is... YOU yourself found it important to link House of M to that the story back when Uncanny #491 came out. :rolleyes:



Also, you told everyone how Messiah CompleX would have Magneto because Ed Brubaker knew without him, the crossover wouldn't have the boost. It did add about oh, 30,000 sales a month to X-Factor, and New X-Men.



And in fact, you took the time later in that thread to compare Age of Apocalypse to Uncanny #491 as being an important Magneto landmark.

So... keep laughing out loud at yourself, hypocrite. ;)

What's the beef though? It was just a set up for what Magneto is gonna do this year

And don't on me to try to sound credible, Wolverine fan. I said Magneto was where Messiah Complex was gonna lead to as Carey, Brubaker, and anyone related to the X-Office GUARANTEED in several endless X-Positions. Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to who? Tell me that character's name please. Bishop got punked out, Cable got put in some odd time stream convoluted garbage, Wolverine and Cyclops are backing murder squads to take out their enemies, and Emma went on with her lectures again but Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to the top guy, just as Carey promised.

Laughing at myself? You're bragging about Wolverine numbers where he barely came in top 25 and then gave him credit for the success of Bendis' New Avengers that has Spider Man or the Uncanny X-Men banner that has been the biggest X-book since who knows when. You play yourself with each post, no matter how many of these little Wolverine fanboys that came out of nowhere all of a sudden. Damn..who's the next to cry over Wolverine not outselling the Marvel top brass books?


Wolverine is not the top draw in comics because Marvel use it big time artist else where.Wolverine has not been supported by some of the the strongest creative team imo.All Marvel needs to is put a top artist and decent writer and wolverine jumps to 1-3 spot every month instead just hovering around the top ten.

That's alot of well wishing because Wolverine does not outsell Uncanny. Does not outsell X-Men. It's not ahead of the top books in the X-Universe. These Wolverine fanboys are going by hearsay and a want for him to be the top draw. I mean...sorry ass Cable was given bigger billing than Wolverine during this little Messiah Complex project.

[Jackob]

What's the beef though? It was just a set up for what Magneto is gonna do this year

And don't on me to try to sound credible, Wolverine fan. I said Magneto was where Messiah Complex was gonna lead to as Carey, Brubaker, and anyone related to the X-Office GUARANTEED in several endless X-Positions. Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to who? Tell me that character's name please. Bishop got punked out, Cable got put in some odd time stream convoluted garbage, Wolverine and Cyclops are backing murder squads to take out their enemies, and Emma went on with her lectures again but Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to the top guy, just as Carey promised.

Laughing at myself? You're bragging about Wolverine numbers where he barely came in top 25 and then gave him credit for the success of Bendis' New Avengers that has Spider Man or the Uncanny X-Men banner that has been the biggest X-book since who knows when. You play yourself with each post, no matter how many of these little Wolverine fanboys that came out of nowhere all of a sudden. Damn..who's the next to cry over Wolverine not outselling the Marvel top brass books?
MC was not an elaborate magneto set up, that is like saying that the civil war was just a big set up Ultron. magneto is just coming back, MC had nothing to do with mags. wolverine howerver was in the book every issue, and ended up leading his own team afterwards

[Erik Lehnsherr]

MC was not an elaborate magneto set up, that is like saying that the civil war was just a big set up Ultron. magneto is just coming back, MC had nothing to do with mags. wolverine howerver was in the book every issue, and ended up leading his own team afterwards

Messiah Complex was a launching pad for books like X-Force, that book that replaced New X-Men, Cable going against Bishop in his little book, Cyclops being given a Captain America makeover while adding a "vision" to him all of a sudden, and getting Xavier into Carey's hands along with Magneto in Legacy. MC had nothing to do with Magneto but it all led to Magneto in the end. As will be seen in Legacy this month. It was the cause and effect that Carey said would happen..that Brubaker guaranteed was gonna happen.."First Legacy and then Uncanny". Magneto is the top villian in the X-Universe. You didn't really think he was gonna be on the sidelines during such changes, did you? I know that Wolverine fan that moans alot every day with his comedy retorts believe so but no real observer actually believed that changes were gonna occur without a Magneto appearance of some sort. It's tradition. House of M and Decimation was spinned out of Magneto and Wanda. As was Onslaught with Magneto and Xavier. As was Magneto War and Magneto being the difference in Apocalypse succeeding in the Twelve back in 2000. This is on the record.

Is Wolverine marketable? Of course he is. Is he headlining status quo change storylines like Magneto? No..he isn't.

[Jackob]

Messiah Complex was a launching pad for books like X-Force, that book that replaced New X-Men, Cable going against Bishop in his little book, Cyclops being given a Captain America makeover while adding a "vision" to him all of a sudden, and getting Xavier into Carey's hands along with Magneto in Legacy. MC had nothing to do with Magneto but it all led to Magneto in the end. As will be seen in Legacy this month. It was the cause and effect that Carey said would happen..that Brubaker guaranteed was gonna happen.."First Legacy and then Uncanny". Magneto is the top villian in the X-Universe. You didn't really think he was gonna be on the sidelines during such changes, did you? I know that Wolverine fan that moans alot every day with his comedy retorts believe so but no real observer actually believed that changes were gonna occur without a Magneto appearance of some sort. It's tradition. House of M and Decimation was spinned out of Magneto and Wanda. As was Onslaught with Magneto and Xavier. As was Magneto War and Magneto being the difference in Apocalypse succeeding in the Twelve back in 2000. This is on the record.

Is Wolverine marketable? Of course he is. Is he headlining status quo change storylines like Magneto? No..he isn't.

yes story lines have villans, sometimes it is apocalps, some times it is sinister, some times it is sentinals, some times, sometimes its purifiers, sometimes its magneto. villans always head line storys

wolverine headlines 2 solobooks a month
wolverine was one of the main headliners of MC
wolverine was the POV character for wolverine
wolverine was the only x-man to have a civil war crossover in a regular book
wolverine has been apart of every x-crossover

magneto is a popular villan, but if he was the only villan it would suck, but wolverine can be the hero all the time.

[Titan76]

Is Wolverine still one of the Most Marketable Characters in comics?
I didn't even read your first post because I just want to know one thing.

Is this really a serious question or a lame joke?

[frog]

I didn't even read your first post because I just want to know one thing.

Is this really a serious question or a lame joke?

If you really want to know then it would behoove you to read the post.

[Titan76]

If you really want to know then it would behoove you to read the post.
If the question is serious then I really don't want to read the post.

[jmc247]

magneto is a popular villan, but if he was the only villan it would suck, but wolverine can be the hero all the time.

Magneto is an anti hero today. That is why he can be a regular in a series like X-Men Legacy or Excalibur.

When Magneto is portayed as an event villian is when his popularity is at its lowest. Meaning he shows up, gets beat by the X-Men, and goes into limbo for a year or two until he shows up again and gets beat by the X-Men again and goes back into limbo.

When he is portayed as an anti hero as he was in X-Men the Animated Series he was able to appear in just about every episode of the second season frolicking around the Savage Land with Xavier. And, every time the X-Men had a big enemy they needed to beat like the Phalanx, the Sentinels, Apocalypse, etc Magneto showed up to help or they found him and asked for his help.

[IronKing]

He's definitely top 5, there's no arguing that. But they've definitely pimped him out a bit too much.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

yes story lines have villans, sometimes it is apocalps, some times it is sinister, some times it is sentinals, some times, sometimes its purifiers, sometimes its magneto. villans always head line storys

wolverine headlines 2 solobooks a month
wolverine was one of the main headliners of MC
wolverine was the POV character for wolverine
wolverine was the only x-man to have a civil war crossover in a regular book
wolverine has been apart of every x-crossover

magneto is a popular villan, but if he was the only villan it would suck, but wolverine can be the hero all the time.


This is a circular agrument and it's boring. All that needs to be said is that Wolverine is overused..even his own fans admit it. Magneto is the most popular villian in Marvel. He headlines the biggest X-storylines in history. He's the definition of change when anything of importance goes down and beyond that is easily the most respected villain from the X-Universe. Yeah..we all love Sebastian Shaw, Selene, and everyone else but they aren't requested or wanted as much as Magneto or Sinister. They never will be. When they do top villian lists for Marvel, there's only one character that will potentially usually get ranked over Magneto and that's Dr. Doom. And that's more of the fact that he's more of a villian than Magneto could ever aspire to be. Magneto and Spider-Man are damn near the greatest characters in Marvel history. The complexity, the reasoning, and the layers are without peer.

[Jota]

So let's see if I get this right: Wolverine is in no way responsible for the sales of the team books he's in. The fact that he's in those means nothing saleswise, altough writers have been forced to put him in their teams by Marvel several times (they must not be interested in high sales). On the other hand, Magneto is the only one responsible for the sales of events that starr a ton of other characters, and are hyped to the moon.
Yup, I see no flaws in that reasoning! :rolleyes:

As for no big stories without Magneto, ever heard of the Dark Phoenix Saga?


By the way, for the original question of this thread, there should be a "Duh!! Of course he is!" option.

[Jackob]

So let's see if I get this right: Wolverine is in no way responsible for the sales of the team books he's in. The fact that he's in those means nothing saleswise, altough writers have been forced to put him in their teams by Marvel several times (they must not be interested in high sales). On the other hand, Magneto is the only one responsible for the sales of events that starr a ton of other characters, and are hyped to the moon.
Yup, I see no flaws in that reasoning! :rolleyes:

As for no big stories without Magneto, ever heard of the Dark Phoenix Saga?


By the way, for the original question of this thread, there should be a "Duh!! Of course he is!" option.

or even MC, no magneto in sight

[Jackob]

This is a circular agrument and it's boring. All that needs to be said is that Wolverine is overused..even his own fans admit it. Magneto is the most popular villian in Marvel. He headlines the biggest X-storylines in history. He's the definition of change when anything of importance goes down and beyond that is easily the most respected villain from the X-Universe. Yeah..we all love Sebastian Shaw, Selene, and everyone else but they aren't requested or wanted as much as Magneto or Sinister. They never will be. When they do top villian lists for Marvel, there's only one character that will potentially usually get ranked over Magneto and that's Dr. Doom. And that's more of the fact that he's more of a villian than Magneto could ever aspire to be. Magneto and Spider-Man are damn near the greatest characters in Marvel history. The complexity, the reasoning, and the layers are without peer.

magneto and spider-man the top two characters in marvel? i think you are blinded by your love of magneto. magneto isnt even the top villan in marvel, that is Dr. Doom. yes magneto is a great character, but wolverine has a whole nother level of character, he is a hero and his story is one of marvels top draws.

[Luck911]

Magneto and Spider-Man are damn near the greatest characters in Marvel history. The complexity, the reasoning, and the layers are without peer.

Wow.Talk about supporting your boy.Greatest characters in Marvel History and you have Magneto and Spiderman has 1a and 1b.You are right with Spiderman but you can through a long list marvel characters Hulk,Iron Man,Thor,Mr Fantastic,Wolverine,Ghost Rider(yes i said it) and more before you reach Magneto.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

or even MC, no magneto in sight

MC sold 8 million copies though like X-Men #1 with Magneto as the main focus? LMAO@anyone being impressed with today's passable sales. Hate the 90s all you want in retrospect but it broke records. Dark Phoenix? A story 20+ years ago? You young Jean and new X-Men marks are comical, man. It's cute though to hold such stories in high esteem. Dark Phoenix was great but it's basically made Jean Grey a one trick pony since. Sad.

LOL@Thor, Hulk, and those other B-listers being compared to Magneto. Wow indeed. Thor is a simpleton character that got put into a coma. Hulk finally was given a huge storyline and it was pretty good. Cap America got kicked out of his own book. Mr. Fantastic has never meant anything to the grand scheme of things..Dr. Doom is bigger than him. Ghost Rider? Kid, don't play yourself. Character wise, it don't get much better in Marvel than Spider Man or Magneto. The gold standards of complex heroics and villiany.

[rwsmith]

Please tell me you all now see the futility of arguing with him? You make a point backed up by numbers and facts, and he responds with "LMAO, kid! Magneto is the gold standard blah, blah, blah..."

The definition of insanity has been described as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Since there's only one clearly insane person on these boards, I suggest we all stop trying for a different result with him. Usually trolls will go away if people just ignore them.

[Jackob]

MC sold 8 million copies though like X-Men #1 with Magneto as the main focus? LMAO@anyone being impressed with today's passable sales. Hate the 90s all you want in retrospect but it broke records. Dark Phoenix? A story 20+ years ago? You young Jean and new X-Men marks are comical, man. It's cute though to hold such stories in high esteem. Dark Phoenix was great but it's basically made Jean Grey a one trick pony since. Sad.

LOL@Thor, Hulk, and those other B-listers being compared to Magneto. Wow indeed. Thor is a simpleton character that got put into a coma. Hulk finally was given a huge storyline and it was pretty good. Cap America got kicked out of his own book. Mr. Fantastic has never meant anything to the grand scheme of things..Dr. Doom is bigger than him. Ghost Rider? Kid, don't play yourself. Character wise, it don't get much better in Marvel than Spider Man or Magneto. The gold standards of complex heroics and villiany.

x-men 1 sold 8 million copies, not because of the epic draw of magneto, but because of the rampant comic speculators market. people bought 5 copies each, even people that dont like comics, just so it would be like action comics 1. little did they realise that action 1 was valuable because of the rarity. and the back lash of this boondogle nearly killed comics. so ya brovo for magneto

and if you thing that magneto is bigger than the hulk, he is a cultural icon.
thor ironman cap the FF and about 6 others are all higher than magneto on the icon totumpole.

[Luck911]

LOL@Thor, Hulk, and those other B-listers being compared to Magneto. Wow indeed. Thor is a simpleton character that got put into a coma. Hulk finally was given a huge storyline and it was pretty good. Cap America got kicked out of his own book. Mr. Fantastic has never meant anything to the grand scheme of things..Dr. Doom is bigger than him. Ghost Rider? Kid, don't play yourself. Character wise, it don't get much better in Marvel than Spider Man or Magneto. The gold standards of complex heroics and villiany.

You are a magneto fan and think the world revolves around magneto.You have amazing ability to turn any topic into Magneto topic.I could waste my in dumb argument but why.You threw out the silly statement i have seen along time Greatest characters in Marvel History,Go start topic on this board for the Greatest characters in Marvel History on board see if Magneto makes in top five of anybody list other than yours.

Ghost rider has longer comic book runs than magneto and he had a movie.Explain why character so important and amazing as magneto can't support a comic that run longer Ghost rider ,Blade or Dazzler .Maybe in your little world Magneto is hugely important but Punisher,Capitan America, Wolverine, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Spider Man in real world we live in are more important in marvel U.

In fact you can even argue that mags is not the most important villain that would go to Dr Doom or Green Goblin You can make an argument he is not even the most important X-villain which could go to Apocalypse or Mr sinister.I like Magneto but go don't overboard Kid he ain't great as you think.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

LOL@rwsmith thinking a popularity contest meaning anything to me. I mean..I was attacked simply because I don't buy Wolverine titles. The posters in this thread mention Magneto more than I do. I was simply saying why would someone try to give Wolverine EVERY OUNCE of credit for the success of New Avengers and Uncanny? X-books sell well by being X-related by nature yet I was given faulty reasoning and shaky attacks all because of my user name? It's comedy but it was to be expected from a thread full of Wolverine marks.

x-men 1 sold 8 million copies, not because of the epic draw of magneto, but because of the rampant comic speculators market. people bought 5 copies each, even people that dont like comics, just so it would be like action comics 1. little did they realise that action 1 was valuable because of the rarity. and the back lash of this boondogle nearly killed comics. so ya brovo for magneto

and if you thing that magneto is bigger than the hulk, he is a cultural icon.
thor ironman cap the FF and about 6 others are all higher than magneto on the icon totumpole.

You're not taking into full account what I said. Claremont, the X-brand, and it being Magneto as the FOCUS was why it did record numbers. Magneto started this thing off...Uncanny X-Men #1. He was there from the beginning. To try to put over characters beneath him like the ones mentioned in this thread? I think it's pretty funny. The Hulk is huge and iconic but what did that movie earn compared to the movies where Magneto was a huge part of? Captain America? He doesn't even have a credible movie out to his name. Iron Man? FF? Come on....just by Magneto being affiliated with the X-universe, he's become popular beyond belief. Every animated series they have him appear in, he always turns into a "hero" because he's such a fan favorite. Hell, they dedicated several episodes from both the Fox and Evolution series to just being about him..what other villian in fiction gets that kind of treatment except the Joker. Not even the much loved Dr. Doom is held in such high esteem by Marvel. He's been gone mostly since what? 2003? Came back a few times but mostly he's been gone. You know they would NEVER, EVER TRY that garbage with Magneto. This isn't some Jean Grey jobber. This is Erik Lehnsherr. The guy that started it all. I know that hurts alot of feelings for some reason but he's the centerpiece of the X-mythos. Things don't happen without a Magneto inclusion. It's just the way it works.

Until WWH, it was hard to tell if Hulk was even relevant. You're acting like Magneto isn't a icon or something. He's on ALL THE VIDEO GAMES of note. He's always pushed in all the status quo changes. The shows, movies, any and everything. I'm not creating or making this up..you've seen it or should of have seen it if you live in the United States over the last 20 years.
I
In fact you can even argue that mags is not the most important villain that would go to Dr Doom or Green Goblin You can make an argument he is not even the most important X-villain which could go to Apocalypse or Mr sinister.I like Magneto but go don't overboard Kid he ain't great as you think.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Doom and Green Goblin are more popular and bigger characters in the mainstream than Magneto? Like I said, you expect these 15 year old Wovlerine fans to buy that odd shaky perception but reality says different. Everyone loves Dr. Doom. He's great. He's the best all out villian maybe in comics overall but is he bigger than Magneto? No. I mean..Magneto is headlining the Ultimate verse, about to get another animated run, will be back in Uncanny this year, and his movie is on the way. It's not even a real comparision to be truthful. It's funny how much it hurts X-fans that the main villian in their line, the one that gives them the most credibility, unlike say what Iron Man has to deal with, is attacking him. Comical.

Kid? That doesn't ride. You're not even college level yet. Calm down..it's all right. Just remember...Legacy is coming and the guy who started it all will be there.

[Jackob]

LOL@rwsmith thinking a popularity contest meaning anything to me. I mean..I was attacked simply because I don't buy Wolverine titles. The posters in this thread mention Magneto more than I do. I was simply saying why would someone try to give Wolverine EVERY OUNCE of credit for the success of New Avengers and Uncanny? X-books sell well by being X-related by nature yet I was given faulty reasoning and shaky attacks all because of my user name? It's comedy but it was to be expected from a thread full of Wolverine marks.



You're not taking into full account what I said. Claremont, the X-brand, and it being Magneto as the FOCUS was why it did record numbers. Magneto started this thing off...Uncanny X-Men #1. He was there from the beginning. To try to put over characters beneath him like the ones mentioned in this thread? I think it's pretty funny. The Hulk is huge and iconic but what did that movie earn compared to the movies where Magneto was a huge part of? Captain America? He doesn't even have a credible movie out to his name. Iron Man? FF? Come on....just by Magneto being affiliated with the X-universe, he's become popular beyond belief. Every animated series they have him appear in, he always turns into a "hero" because he's such a fan favorite. Hell, they dedicated several episodes from both the Fox and Evolution series to just being about him..what other villian in fiction gets that kind of treatment except the Joker. Not even the much loved Dr. Doom is held in such high esteem by Marvel. He's been gone mostly since what? 2003? Came back a few times but mostly he's been gone. You know they would NEVER, EVER TRY that garbage with Magneto. This isn't some Jean Grey jobber. This is Erik Lehnsherr. The guy that started it all. I know that hurts alot of feelings for some reason but he's the centerpiece of the X-mythos. Things don't happen without a Magneto inclusion. It's just the way it works.

Until WWH, it was hard to tell if Hulk was even relevant. You're acting like Magneto isn't a icon or something. He's on ALL THE VIDEO GAMES of note. He's always pushed in all the status quo changes. The shows, movies, any and everything. I'm not creating or making this up..you've seen it or should of have seen it if you live in the United States over the last 20 years.
I


Are you seriously trying to argue that Doom and Green Goblin are more popular and bigger characters in the mainstream than Magneto? Like I said, you expect these 15 year old Wovlerine fans to buy that odd shaky perception but reality says different. Everyone loves Dr. Doom. He's great. He's the best all out villian maybe in comics overall but is he bigger than Magneto? No. I mean..Magneto is headlining the Ultimate verse, about to get another animated run, will be back in Uncanny this year, and his movie is on the way. It's not even a real comparision to be truthful. It's funny how much it hurts X-fans that the main villian in their line, the one that gives them the most credibility, unlike say what Iron Man has to deal with, is attacking him. Comical.

Kid? That doesn't ride. You're not even college level yet. Calm down..it's all right. Just remember...Legacy is coming and the guy who started it all will be there.

no one bought x-men one because OMG IT HAS MAGNETO and ya magneto is the x-mens number one villan but the francise is not built around him. the x-men being where they are today is inifinitly more the result of wolverine than it is the result of magneto. yes magneto shows up in big story lines, but not all story lines that are big are about him. maybe to you everthing with magneto is a huge OMG story line. and yes megneto was featured heavly in all the X Movies but so was storm, cyke, jean, prof x, mystique, and above all james "logan" howlett the WOLVERINE. lets not froget who was used to sell the movie. it was wolverine. the logo for x3 was wolverines claws.

and magneto is no where near as recognisable as the hulk, iron man is also much bigger now with his new movie. and you have a skewed view of what headlining is if you think mags is headling ultimate verse, and he is not geting a animated run, it is Wolverine and the x-men.
THE VILLAN NEVER HEADLINES
come on kid, legacy is about charles xavier with magneto in the back up band.
maybe you will understand when you are older

[mgs]

yes, he's very marketable. the only thing that's keeping him from being numero uno, is probably the fact that he has big pointy & sharp metal claws usually displayed prominently and that is not marketable to the little kiddies.

[Jackob]

yes, he's very marketable. the only thing that's keeping him from being numero uno, is probably the fact that he has big pointy & sharp metal claws usually displayed prominently and that is not marketable to the little kiddies.

even so kids still love logan, but spider-man is top because he is family friendly

[Luck911]

Are you seriously trying to argue that Doom and Green Goblin are more popular and bigger characters in the mainstream than Magneto? Like I said, you expect these 15 year old Wovlerine fans to buy that odd shaky perception but reality says different. Everyone loves Dr. Doom. He's great. He's the best all out villian maybe in comics overall but is he bigger than Magneto? No. I mean..Magneto is headlining the Ultimate verse, about to get another animated run, will be back in Uncanny this year, and his movie is on the way. It's not even a real comparision to be truthful. It's funny how much it hurts X-fans that the main villian in their line, the one that gives them the most credibility, unlike say what Iron Man has to deal with, is attacking him. Comical.

Kid? That doesn't ride. You're not even college level yet. Calm down..it's all right. Just remember...Legacy is coming and the guy who started it all will be there.

Your post are confusing it is like you almost think the X-men are about Magneto.I can't come with reasonable argument to your logic when your logic is flawed.

[Jackob]

if wolverine didnt sell, he wouldnt get top billing over the other x-men in
Wolverine and the X-men

[Jackob]

i was looking at the jan. numbers on newsarama and even though wolvie is #27 he is higher than both superman titles, and 4 tittle that feature him prominently in the top ten. and this is a wolverine issue that not many were a fan of. when we see the febuary numbers i bet wolvie 62 will be alot higher than 27.

and another thought i had in the magneto debate. yes magneto was involved in a few major story lines(not all by any imagination) but if it was not for wolverine i dont think that there would be an x-men today. he was a major factor in the x-mens revival after giant sized. he caught on and became a big star in the book and that realy helped the x-men reestablish themselve as a good team book.

[Jake V]

LOL@rwsmith thinking a popularity contest meaning anything to me. I mean..I was attacked simply because I don't buy Wolverine titles.

You were attacked because you're an annoying troll. Don't flatter yourself, no one is remotely interested in what you do or don't buy or what your opinions are.

[chrismileslord]

Your post are confusing it is like you almost think the X-men are about Magneto.I can't come with reasonable argument to your logic when your logic is flawed.

I usually don't do this, because it's really lame, but I can't help it

LOL PWND

[DeadXMan]

Fine with me.

It's given us gems like Millar/JRjr, Guggenheim/Ramos, Aaron/Garney, Millar/McNiven...I see no problem with this. Good, semi-self contained stories work best imo when writing about Wolverine.

you seem to of missed an arc or two there.....;)

[rwsmith]

Millar and McNiven's run will definitely put Wolverine's solo book back on top. I can't wait for that! I really like the overall look of Logan as an older, more grizzled guy. IMO he ought to look a bit more like that in the comics, especially in the 616 Marvel U where he is much older:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f18/Jackraow21/OldManLogan.png

[worstblogever]

I didn't even read your first post because I just want to know one thing.

Is this really a serious question or a lame joke?

I'd say it's a facetious question to quiet down a very sad, sad argument.

[frog]

I'd say it's a facetious question to quiet down a very sad, sad argument.

Hijack!

There you are - things okay at work?

[worstblogever]

What's the beef though? It was just a set up for what Magneto is gonna do this year

And don't on me to try to sound credible

Oh, Don't worry, I never do.

I said Magneto was where Messiah Complex was gonna lead to as Carey, Brubaker, and anyone related to the X-Office GUARANTEED in several endless X-Positions. Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to who? Tell me that character's name please. Bishop got punked out, Cable got put in some odd time stream convoluted garbage, Wolverine and Cyclops are backing murder squads to take out their enemies, and Emma went on with her lectures again but Exodus and the Acolytes took Xavier to the top guy, just as Carey promised.

Laughing at myself? You're bragging about Wolverine numbers where he barely came in top 25 and then gave him credit for the success of Bendis' New Avengers that has Spider Man or the Uncanny X-Men banner that has been the biggest X-book since who knows when. You play yourself with each post, no matter how many of these little Wolverine fanboys that came out of nowhere all of a sudden. Damn..who's the next to cry over Wolverine not outselling the Marvel top brass books?


Again, comparitively to other icons, his solo books make him one of the top 5 draws in comics. His team books, which you refuse to count, put him a little higher than that. And... then the merchandise.

That's alot of well wishing because Wolverine does not outsell Uncanny. Does not outsell X-Men. It's not ahead of the top books in the X-Universe. These Wolverine fanboys are going by hearsay and a want for him to be the top draw. I mean...sorry ass Cable was given bigger billing than Wolverine during this little Messiah Complex project.

We keep asking you to be able to show an X-solo character who sells better than Wolverine, and I know you totally WANT to say Magneto, but you have no data to support that, other than X-Men (vol.2) #1, which was debunked as the speculation relaunch buyer's market of that era.

Final summary on your arguments from Dr. Cox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Sorry, kid.

[worstblogever]

Hijack!

There you are - things okay at work?

I'll tell ya in X-Cres.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Oh, Don't worry, I never do.



Again, comparitively to other icons, his solo books make him one of the top 5 draws in comics. His team books, which you refuse to count, put him a little higher than that. And... then the merchandise.



We keep asking you to be able to show an X-solo character who sells better than Wolverine, and I know you totally WANT to say Magneto, but you have no data to support that, other than X-Men (vol.2) #1, which was debunked as the speculation relaunch buyer's market of that era.

Final summary on your arguments from Dr. Cox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Sorry, kid.

I want to say Magneto? Magneto is the top drawing villian in Marvel. What the hell are you talking about? LOL. You :mad: as hell right now. I love it.

[just another user]

LOL U Crazy. And by the way I don't like Wolverine. And don't call me kid I'm 82 and have a Nobel Prize.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

LOL U Crazy. And by the way I don't like Wolverine. And don't call me kid I'm 82 and have a Nobel Prize.

65,000 copies for Wolverine in the 27th spot and I'm crazy? Gotcha.:D

[Brian M.]

65,000 copies for Wolverine in the 27th spot and I'm crazy? Gotcha.:D

Child, you're further off the wagon than Britney Spears.

[Jackob]

65,000 copies for Wolverine in the 27th spot and I'm crazy? Gotcha.:D

and it ranked higher than both superman books so... ya its perty good
and fantastic four
daredevil
exiles
wonderwoman
flash
ironman
and wolverine had 6 books he was prominetly featured in in the top 17
and origins was 31

ya he doesnt sell

[rwsmith]

I can't wait until the sales figures for Aaron and Garney's issues come out. I'm betting it's back in the Top 15 at least.

And when Millar and McNiven take over, I will almost guarantee the #1 slot (I say "almost" because Secret Invasion might edge it out).

[Optic Rage!]

#1 is iffy, but top 5 easily.

[Dizzy D]

I want to say Magneto? Magneto is the top drawing villian in Marvel. What the hell are you talking about? LOL. You :mad: as hell right now. I love it.

Got any numbers to back that up? Any evidence?

Wolverine moved 120k comics in January by himself, not counting team-books. Magneto moved ... well, he didn't move any comics in January, did he?

Let's see, New Avengers 20 has Magneto proudly on the cover. He wasn't in the story before. So as he obviously is Marvel's TOP DRAWING character, sales should be way, way up, right?

Apr 06 New Avengers #18 - 121,550 ( -1.1%)
May 06 New Avengers #19 - 125,223 ( +3.0%)

Yes, that's a whopping 3000 people joining in just for Magneto.

[rwsmith]

#1 is iffy, but top 5 easily.

We'll see I guess. I also predicted that X-Force #1 would be the top-selling book for Marvel in February, so we'll see pretty soon how accurate my predictions are.

[Jake V]

I want to say Magneto? Magneto is the top drawing villian in Marvel.

While that might as well be true, it doesn't really mean anything. An appearance by Magneto doesn't boost a book's sales nearly as much as an artist or writer change. Someone else sited the New Avengers example, with his head on the cover barely raising the sales on that book 3000 copies.

Being Marvel's top drawing villain is like being the worlds tallest midget. I mean, good for you, being the best and all, but you're still insignificant compared to things that actually sell comic books.

[Jackob]

magneto is a great villian/occasional ally but he cannot bring in consistent interest. he is only good in small doses or he losses his edge. but wolverine is a constant draw week after week.

and his movie is in full effect, and magnetos movie is not nearly as set up.

[worstblogever]

I want to say Magneto? Magneto is the top drawing villian in Marvel. What the hell are you talking about? LOL. You :mad: as hell right now. I love it.

And yet... you still have no data to say Magneto's a bigger draw than Wolverine. Or a draw at all.

Hell, if Magneto sold, wouldn't they make a graphic of "The Essential Magneto"? I know you'd have to buy two. But guess what? They haven't. Because Marvel doesn't think it'd sell. The closest there has been has been the collected "Magneto Ascendant".

They have, however, made a graphic of "The Villainy of Dr. Doom." And it sold. Well.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

While that might as well be true, it doesn't really mean anything. An appearance by Magneto doesn't boost a book's sales nearly as much as an artist or writer change. Someone else sited the New Avengers example, with his head on the cover barely raising the sales on that book 3000 copies.

Being Marvel's top drawing villain is like being the worlds tallest midget. I mean, good for you, being the best and all, but you're still insignificant compared to things that actually sell comic books.

Magneto storylines are hyped and treated as a book deal and they always do great, even in this recessive comic book era that isn't comparable to what the films do in contrast.

LOL@the metaphors. Cute. But Wolverine, the supposed top character in all of comics, is why New Avengers and Uncanny are topping all Marvel books? As if the X-Men name or Bendis/Spider-Man being involved in the Avengers aren't as vital?
And yet... you still have no data to say Magneto's a bigger draw than Wolverine. Or a draw at all.

Hell, if Magneto sold, wouldn't they make a graphic of "The Essential Magneto"? I know you'd have to buy two. But guess what? They haven't. Because Marvel doesn't think it'd sell. The closest there has been has been the collected "Magneto Ascendant".

They have, however, made a graphic of "The Villainy of Dr. Doom." And it sold. Well.

Blog, there are ENDLESS Magneto appearances in comparision to Dr. Doom. Are you kidding me? The whole Ultimate line relied on Magneto this month. You act as if Magneto: Rogue Nation never came out or Magneto Dark Seduction was a dream. The whole thing led to "Eve of Destruction" and another movement for the x-titles direction.

Wolverine is the guy they have say supposed cool lines after all the X-Men do the real fighting and that's about it. He's a walking cliche. As predictable as any character that is pushed in Marvel history. And why would Magneto have to draw more than the top hero in the X-Universe? No Wolverine story is breaking records, that's for damn sure.

[worstblogever]

Magneto storylines are hyped and treated as a book deal and they always do great, even in this recessive comic book era that isn't comparable to what the films do in contrast.

LOL@the metaphors. Cute. But Wolverine, the supposed top character in all of comics, is why New Avengers and Uncanny are topping all Marvel books? As if the X-Men name or Bendis/Spider-Man being involved in the Avengers aren't as vital?

We're still waiting for you to post some factual, numeric proof of your argument. Surely in the past week, since this thread's started, you've had time to find some to support your belief Wolverine is no longer a draw. Unless it's flimsy, or outright baseless, of course.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

We're still waiting for you to post some factual, numeric proof of your argument. Surely in the past week, since this thread's started, you've had time to find some to support your belief Wolverine is no longer a draw. Unless it's flimsy, or outright baseless, of course.

X-Men #1= 8 million copies. Claremont+ Magneto made the X-verse. Never forget that. Anything that's tried to copy it? Fails and fails miserably. Wolverine included.

[Jackob]

X-Men #1= 8 million copies. Claremont+ Magneto made the X-verse. Never forget that. Anything that's tried to copy it? Fails and fails miserably. Wolverine included.

ok that is a speculaters market fluke that almost killed comics. you want to know why that sold so well? it said X-men #1 on the cover and everybody and there mom bought 5 copies because they thought that they would be worth action comics 1 money. but little did they realise that being so many had it it was worthless.

and wolverine was in x-men 1, right on the same cover as maggy. and people were not buying it for magneto. magneto is in the book yes, but they bought it for the x-men/get rich scheemes

come on kid we debunked your x-men 1 theroy already didnt you take any business classes at sdsu?

[worstblogever]

X-Men #1= 8 million copies. Claremont+ Magneto made the X-verse. Never forget that. Anything that's tried to copy it? Fails and fails miserably. Wolverine included.

That's your only argument. And it's been debunked both times you've mentioned it. It holds less water than the third time.

I mean, I could argue that issue sold as well because Wolverine was in it, anyway. So, try again. Try harder.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

ok that is a speculaters market fluke that almost killed comics. you want to know why that sold so well? it said X-men #1 on the cover and everybody and there mom bought 5 copies because they thought that they would be worth action comics 1 money. but little did they realise that being so many had it it was worthless.

and wolverine was in x-men 1, right on the same cover as maggy. and people were not buying it for magneto. magneto is in the book yes, but they bought it for the x-men/get rich scheemes

come on kid we debunked your x-men 1 theroy already didnt you take any business classes at sdsu?


Jakob, let me ask you...why do you keep trying to justify the sales? It happened. It can't be disputed. It's on the record. And don't give me that Magneto wasn't apart the sale scheme. Of course he was. Chris Claremont's final storyline...Magneto on the alternate covers and headlining the entire damn storyline and setting the direction for the X-Men for the next two years.

SMH@you saying "kid". You don't even a DL in your life yet. Please.

[Jackob]

Jakob, let me ask you...why do you keep trying to justify the sales? It happened. It can't be disputed. It's on the record. And don't give me that Magneto wasn't apart the sale scheme. Of course he was. Chris Claremont's final storyline...Magneto on the alternate covers and headlining the entire damn storyline and setting the direction for the X-Men for the next two years.
yes it did happen
it is on the record
it is also on the record that it was the speculation market that jacked the sales.
why do you keep trying to justify that it is magneto and only magneto that made the book sell, come on kid, it is clear you have no other numbers so you cling to the trumped up notion of magneto pull.

give me one other instance where magneto pulled a big draw just himself
SMH@you saying "kid". You don't even a DL in your life yet. Please.
sweet abbreviations kid, i dont know what you tried to throw"@"me, what are you 12?

[worstblogever]

yes it did happen
it is on the record
it is also on the record that it was the speculation market that jacked the sales.
why do you keep trying to justify that it is magneto and only magneto that made the book sell, come on kid, it is clear you have no other numbers so you cling to the trumped up notion of magneto pull.

give me one other instance where magneto pulled a big draw just himself

sweet abbreviations kid, i dont know what you tried to throw"@"me, what are you 12?

Agreed, Jackob. Saying Wolverine's sales on team books aren't justifiable indicators, and that solo books are the only true way to know would indicate that the only real way to gauge Magneto's sales, in comparison, would be to look at how his solo runs in mini-series have sold.

How did Magneto Rex and Magneto: Dark Seduction fare when they were released, Erik?

Of course you don't mention it. Because they were not in the Top 10. They're not even in the Top 25. That, at a time when they didn't have four DC weekly books to compete with (like Countdown or 52) or books like World War Hulk or Civil War. Which means, your argument is bogus.

[Jake V]

How did Magneto Rex and Magneto: Dark Seduction fare when they were released, Erik?

In all honesty, weren't they released during the mid 90's?

If they came out before the industry crash, they could have sold 100K easily. People might have thought a Magneto series might be worth something in the future.

Of course, with hindsight being 20/20, we know that they would be worth somewhere from 25 cents to cover price, but we weren't as smart back then.

[worstblogever]

In all honesty, weren't they released during the mid 90's?

If they came out before the industry crash, they could have sold 100K easily. People might have thought a Magneto series might be worth something in the future.

Of course, with hindsight being 20/20, we know that they would be worth somewhere from 25 cents to cover price, but we weren't as smart back then.

But where did they place in the Top 100? Especially when say, compared to a little book called "Wolverine"?

[Luck911]

I want to say Magneto? Magneto is the top drawing villian in Marvel. What the hell are you talking about? LOL. You :mad: as hell right now. I love it.


You are going to bring some proof with numbers in stead of throwing random claims.The Top drawing villain is Venom who has more miniseries than Dr Doom and Magneto combined and is member of a team in ongoing series.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

You are going to bring some proof with numbers in stead of throwing random claims.The Top drawing villain is Venom who has more miniseries than Dr Doom and Magneto combined and is member of a team in ongoing series.

Only Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man has been anywhere close to selling near the X-Universe's numbers from the Spider-line. Venom? Yeah right...get me back when he's made half the impact Magneto or even the Green Goblin has made on mainstream Marvel. Another day..another new fan to spoonfeed.

Agreed, Jackob. Saying Wolverine's sales on team books aren't justifiable indicators, and that solo books are the only true way to know would indicate that the only real way to gauge Magneto's sales, in comparison, would be to look at how his solo runs in mini-series have sold.

How did Magneto Rex and Magneto: Dark Seduction fare when they were released, Erik?

Of course you don't mention it. Because they were not in the Top 10. They're not even in the Top 25. That, at a time when they didn't have four DC weekly books to compete with (like Countdown or 52) or books like World War Hulk or Civil War. Which means, your argument is bogus.

Magneto Dark Seduction was from 2000. Rex was 1999. I mean...Magneto War, Uncanny #366-367, X-Men #85-87, and Magneto Rex were all lined up for the return of Magneto. When on EARTH has Venom ever gotten that kind of treatment in the Spider-lines? No one dares talks about those Venom series anymore considering how they failed. And in truth, Venom has long been out of the villian out spotlight and recast as anti-hero. He was a complete non-factor in the Civil War. You think that if Doom or Magneto were involved in that story they would of got pushed aside like that? Yeah right.

Bogus on your say so? Since when and why would I even care? What matters is that Magneto and Doom are the biggest villians in Marvel. They are the gold standard. They are what every villian in Marvel are measured by. Not the Red Skull. Not Norman Osbourne's ill fated return during the clone storyline that led to backlash for years. Not Thanos..despite his massive fanboy appeal at this website in particular thanks to his Starlin protected win/loss record. No..it starts and ends with Magneto and Doom. Which is why they have all of their confrontations end in stalemates overall to keep both looking equal.

[worstblogever]

Magneto Dark Seduction was from 2000. Rex was 1999. I mean...Magneto War, Uncanny #366-367, X-Men #85-87, and Magneto Rex were all lined up for the return of Magneto. When on EARTH has Venom ever gotten that kind of treatment in the Spider-lines? No one dares talks about those Venom series anymore considering how they failed. And in truth, Venom has long been out of the villian out spotlight and recast as anti-hero. He was a complete non-factor in the Civil War. You think that if Doom or Magneto were involved in that story they would of got pushed aside like that? Yeah right.

Bogus on your say so? Since when and why would I even care? What matters is that Magneto and Doom are the biggest villians in Marvel. They are the gold standard. They are what every villian in Marvel are measured by. Not the Red Skull. Not Norman Osbourne's ill fated return during the clone storyline that led to backlash for years. Not Thanos..despite his massive fanboy appeal at this website in particular thanks to his Starlin protected win/loss record. No..it starts and ends with Magneto and Doom. Which is why they have all of their confrontations end in stalemates overall to keep both looking equal.

And... yet you still won't reveal the Top 100 placement for those Magneto storylines. I've given you enough chance. I get the feeling you won't say because it undermines your own argument.

[worstblogever]

For those wondering what he's blathering on about... here's how Magneto's miniseries did vs. Wolverine back in the day...

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1628

Magneto Rex #1 came out in March of 1999. Note: Wolverine was #6 that month, and Magneto was #9. That's as close as he gets.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1629


Magneto Rex #2 came out in April 1999... Note: Wolverine was #6 that month. Wolverine/Punisher: Revelations was #11. Magneto Rex came in at #14. Gambit's own series was next up at #22. Thus, Wolverine > Magneto that month. Twice over, in fact.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1630

Magneto Rex #3 came out in May 1999. Note: Wolverine #140 came in at #7 that month. Magneto Rex was back at #16.

Although, I'm sure that by Mr. Lensherr's own logic that you can't count a character's appeal, since his supporting cast factors into a book's sales... Magneto was actually carried by the appearances in that miniseries by Rogue, Captain America, Quicksilver, Black Panther, and the Avengers. Oh yeah, and all the Acolytes.

But even if that added to the appeal... IT STILL DIDN'T OUTSELL WOLVERINE.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Who cares. House of M was built off of who's name? The movies were both marketed after Magneto and Wolverine. Both shows had peripheral Magneto themed episodes. WHAT VILLIAN IN MARVEL HISTORY has ever been on that level? No one. That's the point. You're getting emotional on sales after coming in the thread with figures from October showing Wolverine was #10 but didn't have a damn thing to say about him being #27 and around that mark from Nov-today. There's a big Magneto story coming, as cited by the creators who interact with this site and I can't wait for it to pass. Because in the end....Magneto Was Right.

[worstblogever]

Furthermore, let's look to the year 2000 when Magneto: Dark Seduction came out.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1430.

April. Wolverine #151 pops in at #4 and 83,600 units. What would be Magneto's best showing of this miniseries... (obviously issue #1 for speculators) brings it in at 54,900, and gives it #14 overall. I must note, though, that 54,900 is still less than Wolverine comics move today, and is almost always less than Wolverine:Origins, its substandard spin-off.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1431

The next month... Wolverine #152 comes in as the third top seller, and does 81,400 units. Magneto: Dark Seduction #2 had its sales drop by 10,000, and it came in at #23. This is comparable with several X-solo titles. Cable #81 was #25 with slightly less sales. Mutant X #23 (Havok on an alternate Earth) placed at #26. X-Man #65 came in at #31.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1432

Next month... Wolverine #153 comes in again as the third top seller. Mutant X #22 passes the Master of Magnetism, and comes in at #27. Magneto: Dark Seduction comes in at #28, still doing about half the business of Wolverine. Cable sells only slightly less, coming in at #31.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=808

Last issue. Wolverine #154 places fourth. Mutant X #23 places just inside the Top 25. Magneto: Dark Seduction has its worst outing, coming in at #33 for its finale. Cable sells slightly less, placing at #37.

Again, at NO TIME has Magneto ever outsold Wolverine on a solo one on one. And considering most of these sales figures are less than 50,000... he wouldn't outsell Wolverine or Wolverine: Origins today, either.

Now... that's the research I was waiting for you to show me, Lensherr. I think it would be only right if you concede defeat now in this debate, or just let your silence speak volumes.

[worstblogever]

Who cares. House of M was built off of who's name? The movies were both marketed after Magneto and Wolverine. Both shows had peripheral Magneto themed episodes. WHAT VILLIAN IN MARVEL HISTORY has ever been on that level? No one. That's the point. You're getting emotional on sales after coming in the thread with figures from October showing Wolverine was #10 but didn't have a damn thing to say about him being #27 and around that mark from Nov-today. There's a big Magneto story coming, as cited by the creators who interact with this site and I can't wait for it to pass. Because in the end....Magneto Was Right.

Magneto may have been right... but I keep on proving YOU wrong.

And by the way... saying House of M was a Magneto based event is like saying Age of Apocalypse sold explicitly due to the drawing power of En Sabah Nur. Which, it didn't. Both of those events were sold on the overall draw of the Marvel U., and an alternate version of it. Magneto was practically a background character in most of that thing. But who was in damned near every issue? WOLVERINE! So whose drawing power sold House of M? Wolverine, Magneto, or the whole Marvel U., who was in it? You can't claim all Wolverine team books don't count, but Magneto with the WHOLE Marvel U. tying in shows his drawing ability. It completely contradicts itself.

And... it's a crossover. That didn't do as much $$$ as say, Civil War. Or Age of Apocalypse. So save it.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Magneto may have been right... but I keep on proving YOU wrong.

And by the way... saying House of M was a Magneto based event is like saying Age of Apocalypse sold explicitly due to the drawing power of En Sabah Nur. Which, it didn't. Both of those events were sold on the overall draw of the Marvel U., and an alternate version of it. Magneto was practically a background character in most of that thing. But who was in damned near every issue? WOLVERINE! So whose drawing power sold House of M? Wolverine, Magneto, or the whole Marvel U., who was in it? You can't claim all Wolverine team books don't count, but Magneto with the WHOLE Marvel U. tying in shows his drawing ability. It completely contradicts itself.

And... it's a crossover. That didn't do as much $$$ as say, Civil War. Or Age of Apocalypse. So save it.

Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. preorders
1 Uncanny X-Men (prism etched cover) 350 $3.99 Marvel 171,500
2 X-Men 70 $2.99 Marvel 166,900
3 Heroes Reborn: The Return 1 $2.50 Marvel 160,500
4 Spawn 67 $1.95 Image 156,400
5 Heroes Reborn: The Return 2 $2.50 Marvel 145,600
6 Heroes Reborn: The Return 4 $2.50 Marvel 144,100
7 Heroes Reborn: The Return 3 $2.50 Marvel 143,500
8 Witchblade 18 $2.50 Image 134,600
9 Wolverine 119 $1.99 Marvel 127,300
10 JLA 13 $1.95 DC 111,200


1 House of M 1 $2.99 Marvel 233,700
2 House of M 2 $2.99 Marvel 168,900
3 New Avengers 6 $2.25 Marvel 161,500
4 Green Lantern 2 $2.99 DC 117,800
5 Superman Batman 20 $2.99 DC 114,100
6 JLA 115 $2.50 DC 95,400
7 Villains United 2 $2.50 DC 94,400
8 Omac Project 3 $2.50 DC 94,000
9 Uncanny X-Men 461 $2.50 Marvel 91,200
10 Spider-Man House of M 1 $2.99 Marvel 85,100

JANUARY 1999 Comic Book Preorders from Diamond Comic Distributors Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. preorders
1 Uncanny X-Men 366 $1.99 Marvel 139,000
2 X-Men 86 $1.99 Marvel 136,500
3 X-Men Magneto War $2.99 Marvel 107,700
4 Spawn 82 $1.95 Image 101,500
5 Earth X 0 $3.99 Marvel 96,700
6 Avengers 14 $1.99 Marvel 93,800
7 Wolverine 136 $1.99 Marvel 92,200
8 Fathom 5 $2.50 Image 90,100
9 JLA 27 $1.99 DC 89,900
10 Gambit 2 $2.99 Marvel 86,100

FEBRUARY 1999 Comic Book Preorders from Diamond Comic Distributors Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. preorders
1 Uncanny X-Men 367 $1.99 Marvel 130,900
2 X-Men 87 $1.99 Marvel 129,400
3 Battle Chasers 5 (Res) $2.50 DC 109,500
4 Danger Girl 5 (Res) $2.50 DC 101,200
5 Earth X 1 $2.99 Marvel 99,000
6 Spawn 83 $1.95 Image 98,200
7 Avengers 15 $1.99 Marvel 90,000
8 Wolverine 137 $1.99 Marvel 88,500
9 JLA 28 $1.99 DC 85,600
10 Daredevil 6 $2.50 Marvel 79,600

You see, these numbers up top? They're called...Gold Standard numbers. We're not talking about some two bit characters in New X-Men, no, no, no..we're not talking about made up numbers for characters like Venom, no..this is Magneto. The GOLD STANDARD of X-villiany. The symbol by which everything that anatagonizes the X-Men gets judged by. Simple as that. No need for crying. No need for shaky BS commentary about "Woverine this and Wolverine that". Because every thing MAJOR that has ever happened? It involves Erik Magnus Lehnsherr. Morrison tried to get rid of him? Nope...editors said "Not gonna happen...who cares what happens with a Jean Grey but when it's Magneto, the STANDARD? We gotta correct this mistake as soon as we possibly can for the sake of credibility." And that's exactly what happened. No need to get mad...it's just the way it is. I'm sorry..it makes plenty of new young fans of characters like "Layla Miller" angry but that's just history for you. Magneto=ICON.:evilsmile

And House of M wasn't gonna sell on Wanda or Quicksilver so they did the only thing they could do..build it off of the name of who else? That's right..the Standard. Age of Apocalypse's whole storyline had Magneto in each and every single book of importance. Not Apocalypse...MAGNETO. That's the difference between being a A Lister and B Lister. Learn it.

[worstblogever]

You see, these numbers up top? They're called...Gold Standard numbers. We're not talking about some two bit characters in New X-Men, no, no, no..we're talking about made up numbers for characters like Venom, no..this is Magneto. The GOLD STANDARD of X-villiany. The symbol by which everything that anatagonizes the X-Men gets judged by. Simple as that. No need for crying. No need for shaky BS commentary about "Woverine this and Wolverine that". Because every thing MAJOR that has ever happened? It involves Erik Magnus Lehnsherr. Morrison tried to get rid of him? Nope...editors said "Not gonna happen...who cares what happens with a Jean Grey but when it's Magneto, the STANDARD? We gotta correct this mistake as soon as we possibly can for the sake of credibility." And that's exactly what happened. No need to get mad...it's just the way it is. I'm sorry..it makes plenty of new young fans of characters like "Layla Miller" angry but that's just history for you. Magneto=ICON.:evilsmile

And House of M wasn't gonna sell on Wanda or Quicksilver so they did the only thing they could do..build it off of the name of who else? That's right..the Standard. Age of Apocalypse's whole storyline had Magneto in each and every single book of importance. Not Apocalypse...MAGNETO. That's the difference between being a A Lister and B Lister. Learn it.

The logic of ANY of that makes no sense. You keep arguing that we can't count Uncanny X-Men or X-Men books featuring Wolverine that are in the Top 10, but the minute Magneto's in them, you tout them as proof. Which is utter crap, from a logical standpoint.

And the same logic you use to say House of M is a Magneto event... yet you say that Age of Apocalypse is a Magneto event... despite it being about a world ruled by Apocalypse.

In other words, you're rambling, grasping at straws, and not making any s