Which X-Men believe in Xavier's dream today?

[jmc247]

And, which X-Men no longer believe in Xavier's dream or in some cases never did?

[Optic Rage!]

I'm not sure if any of them believe in the dream anymore

I guess we will see what X-Men are around post 500 to see who agree's with Scott's new vision.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Cable
Bishop (though in different ways)

And probably the ones in space right now.

[Monty_Cristo]

Shortpack ...............................

[Brian M.]

The dream has changed.

It's about protecting the now endangered speices that Mutants are.

[chemicalx]

I would say a lot of the xmen still believe in Charles' original dream that of peaseful co-existance with humans. it may be his methods that give people pause.

for a list I'd say

Storm
Beast
IceMan
Angel
Jean (if she were still around)
Peter
Kurt
Kitty

I think those on the otherside would be
Scott (more interested in protecting those that are left which isnt bad)
Emma (Really doesnt seem to care as long as they leave her alone)
Logan (Again doesnt really care)
New X-men Kids (more interested in staying alive)


I see it as a split between the old and new guard. All the heavy hiters from the old days are used to being on the run and still fighting for peace. The new groups are interested in staying alive and pease is a happy addition.

[claimtosubclaim]

Even if the X-Men embrace a new "dream" when 500 hits, that doesn't mean they can't believe in Xavier's dream anymore.

With that said, I don't think that Hank, Bobby, Warren or Sam would ever stop believing in Xavier's dream.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Cable
Bishop (though in different ways)

And probably the ones in space right now.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I would say a lot of the xmen still believe in Charles' original dream that of peaseful co-existance with humans. it may be his methods that give people pause.

for a list I'd say

Storm
Beast
IceMan
Angel
Jean (if she were still around)
Peter
Kurt
Kitty

I think those on the otherside would be
Scott (more interested in protecting those that are left which isnt bad)
Emma (Really doesnt seem to care as long as they leave her alone)
Logan (Again doesnt really care)
New X-men Kids (more interested in staying alive)


I see it as a split between the old and new guard. All the heavy hiters from the old days are used to being on the run and still fighting for peace. The new groups are interested in staying alive and pease is a happy addition.

You know what, I agree with you on that list.

[Mr_Hellfire]

I would say a lot of the xmen still believe in Charles' original dream that of peaseful co-existance with humans. it may be his methods that give people pause.

for a list I'd say

Storm
Beast
IceMan
Angel
Jean (if she were still around)
Peter
Kurt
Kitty

I think those on the otherside would be
Scott (more interested in protecting those that are left which isnt bad)
Emma (Really doesnt seem to care as long as they leave her alone)
Logan (Again doesnt really care)
New X-men Kids (more interested in staying alive)


I see it as a split between the old and new guard. All the heavy hiters from the old days are used to being on the run and still fighting for peace. The new groups are interested in staying alive and pease is a happy addition.
I'd make a slight edit and say the X-Force team along with Wolverine.
Since they're basically going against the peaceful, no-kill deal that Xavier set out.

[Ann Nichols]

"X-Force" v.3, #1 might change your mind about one person on that list.

[Mr_Hellfire]

"X-Force" v.3, #1 might change your mind about one person on that list.
Ah. Well this sucks since my area only receives comics about two to three weeks late.
Which one?

[claimtosubclaim]

Ah. Well this sucks since my area only receives comics about two to three weeks late.
Which one?

Angel. But I highly doubt he's joining the team. Whether or not he believes that the Purifiers need to be killed has little bearing on what he thinks about killing other villains. Also, he's far too much in the public eye to be able to do so in any case. Even if he wore a black-ops costume, he'd be recognized instantly. If a high-profile pro-peace-stanced mutant like himself (who has given a mutant-human relations speech at a G8 summit) was caught red-handed, the remaining mutants in this world would be on the chopping block so fast, government sanctioned.

Maybe he backs the team financially or offers them safe houses, but he won't join them.

[Victorious]

I think those on the otherside would be
Scott (more interested in protecting those that are left which isnt bad)
Emma (Really doesnt seem to care as long as they leave her alone)
Logan (Again doesnt really care)
New X-men Kids (more interested in staying alive)



Prodigy, Mercury, Dust and Anole surely believe in Xavier's dream too.

[jmc247]

Since they're basically going against the peaceful, no-kill deal that Xavier set out.

That is certainly true.

[jmc247]

And probably the ones in space right now.

I don't think any of the ones in space believe in Xavier's dream, hell even Alex has changed his tune on killing.

He has been after Vulcan not to bring him down, capture him, or make him see the error in his ways. He has been out to kill him and anyone who gets in their way.

[Schuimend Mormel]

I don't think any of the ones in space believe in Xavier's dream, hell even Alex has changed his tune on killing.The situation those three have ended up in is different from their old one. I don't think Lorna, Alex, and Rachel have lost faith in Xavier's idea of co-existence between humans and mutants; Alex decision to help kill Vulcan was made in light of the galactic threat that Vulcan now poses and the atrocities he had already committed. In fact, I think it might be said that Alex saying 'X-Men don't kill... so I guess we're not X-Men anymore', was done so that they could do something that goes against Xavier's teachings without doing it in Xavier's name.

[Slant]

In fact, I think it might be said that Alex saying 'X-Men don't kill... so I guess we're not X-Men anymore', was done so that they could do something that goes against Xavier's teachings without doing it in Xavier's name.
Well isn't that what the thread is about? Doing something against his teachings?

[jmc247]

Alex saying 'X-Men don't kill... so I guess we're not X-Men anymore', was done so that they could do something that goes against Xavier's teachings without doing it in Xavier's name.

That is the whole point of this thread. Xavier's beliefs don't have exceptions where you can decide 'ok' lets kill now. Which is why Alex and company say they are no longer X-Men.

[carabas]

Xavier's dream is about Mutant race coexisting peacefully with humans. As of House of Meh, there no longer is a mutant race.

Xavier's dream is dead and buried.

[darksaint124]

The ones in space are out to kill Vulcan who is technically Shiar. So their still following the dream.

[ClanAskani]

I don't think any of the ones in space believe in Xavier's dream, hell even Alex has changed his tune on killing.

He has been after Vulcan not to bring him down, capture him, or make him see the error in his ways. He has been out to kill him and anyone who gets in their way.

Dealing with Vulcan is separate from Xavier's dream. Alex, Lorna and Rachel quit being X-Men because they felt killing Vulcan would violate the X-Men's non-killing policy. But that doesn't mean they didn't believe in Xavier's dream of peaceful coexistence between mutant and humans. In fact, peaceful coexistence is threatened by an alien invasion and taking out Vulcan was the only solution.

Rachel was a very firm believer in Xavier's dream. She grew up being indoctrinated into it, and it showed up especially in the Askani. She could go either way with having her believe shattered by Xavier's betrayals and the state mutants find themselves in, or it may reaffirm her faith.

[darknessatnoon]

I don't think any of the ones in space believe in Xavier's dream, hell even Alex has changed his tune on killing.

He has been after Vulcan not to bring him down, capture him, or make him see the error in his ways. He has been out to kill him and anyone who gets in their way.

The ones who went in space were going out of their way to do Xavier a solid even when other more long-term X-Men weren't willing to help out.

[Toadman005]

I always figured that his "dream of peaceful co-existence" really worked up until about 10-12 years ago. In the modern, PC world where any kind of prejudice/discrimination is considered so revulting it CANNOT be shown (except in the case of hack film villains), I assume MOST of humanity accepts mutants these days.

[darksaint124]

I always figured that his "dream of peaceful co-existence" really worked up until about 10-12 years ago. In the modern, PC world where any kind of prejudice/discrimination is considered so revulting it CANNOT be shown (except in the case of hack film villains), I assume MOST of humanity accepts mutants these days.

Only the ones that want to be mutants, have been saved by mutants, or have been mutants, or most people with powers, or the ones that just think mutants are HOT.:D

[La Fea]

I think probably all of the long-standing X-Men, even some of the most skeptic, still believe in it deep down inside, but the reality in place takes dreams out of the list of priorities.

But I tend to think everyone deep down inside is an optimist except for those who just give up.

[jmc247]

Dealing with Vulcan is separate from Xavier's dream. Alex, Lorna and Rachel quit being X-Men because they felt killing Vulcan would violate the X-Men's non-killing policy. But that doesn't mean they didn't believe in Xavier's dream of peaceful coexistence between mutant and humans.

Xavier's philosophy is more then just humans and mutants can coexist peacefully. It is a basis of how the X-Men should go about all their battles be they with human or alien. That is why Alex said they are no longer X-Men for this battle.

But, you are right Xavier's philosphy about human and mutant coexistance is a different issue. But, right now when it comes to that part of Xavier's philosphy I agree with this poster.

Xavier's dream is about Mutant race coexisting peacefully with humans. As of House of Meh, there no longer is a mutant race.

Xavier's dream is dead and buried.

There is no mutant race anymore.

[boshobosho]

I think Xavier's philosophy is like a lot of ideals and philosophies, there will always be people who follow it, but it just becomes subject to change. Mutants can still co-exist with humans in a peaceful manner, but what mutants are left also need to be preserved.

[LordAllMighty]

Xavier's dream is about Mutant race coexisting peacefully with humans. As of House of Meh, there no longer is a mutant race.

While small, mutants are still a race. Well........this also depends on if you consider mutants a race in the first place.:confused:

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I don't think Storm will ever turn on Xavier completely. Especially not to side with Cyclops all of a sudden believing he's capable of a different path with no sound stragedy.

[rZi]

While small, mutants are still a race. Well........this also depends on if you consider mutants a race in the first place.:confused:

Im pretty sure everyone classed them as a race before in the MU, rather than like a disease like the muttie haters would have them be called.

[Sanctus]

I don't think Storm will ever turn on Xavier completely. Especially not to side with Cyclops all of a sudden believing he's capable of a different path with no sound stragedy.

Agreed. Storm is a true believer which is why we need to see more Mutants in Wakanda. Kind of like Nancy Regans 'Just Say No' campaign.

[jmc247]

I don't think Storm will ever turn on Xavier completely. Especially not to side with Cyclops all of a sudden believing he's capable of a different path with no sound stragedy.

Rachel would be an interesting case. Magneto himself has had to stop her from lashing out violently with anger and as we have seen in EV those issues still there with her. If she sees a potental threat she will agressively go after it and try to eliminate it for good. However, we haven't got much a deeper reading about her feelings of mutant/human issues. Lorna clearly supports proactive measures to protect the mutant race. And, has made clear she knows that it isn't the 'bad' people mutants have to fear most, it is the masses that both passively and actively support the construction of the weapons used to massacre mutants.

[carabas]

While small, mutants are still a race. Well........this also depends on if you consider mutants a race in the first place.Mutants were always a race. This is not even up for discussion.
And they are not a race at the moment. A race propagates itself, which mutants no longer can do. At best, they're a group of les than 200 individuals. Calling them a race is like saying red-haired bridge players on Chicago are a race.

[jcp011c]

Supporters:

Cable
Storm
Nightcrawler
Beast
Jean
Iceman

I'd say these along with Kitty, Cyclops and Logan have had the strongest ties to Xavier, but those three are more willing to embrace change and enforce harsher attitudes or new peaceful ways of doing things.

I'd say torn on this would be:
Kitty
Angel
Collossus
Rogue
Cannonball

Totally going their own way:
Marvel Girl,
Polaris
Havok
Emma Frost
Wolverine
Cyclops
Psylocke
Bishop
Gambit (if the last three even count any more!)

[darksaint124]

Agreed. Storm is a true believer which is why we need to see more Mutants in Wakanda. Kind of like Nancy Regans 'Just Say No' campaign.

Wow, quoting a Regan. Just how far are we on the war on drugs.

[darksaint124]

Supporters:

Cable
Storm
Nightcrawler
Beast
Jean
Iceman

I'd say these along with Kitty, Cyclops and Logan have had the strongest ties to Xavier, but those three are more willing to embrace change and enforce harsher attitudes or new peaceful ways of doing things.

I'd say torn on this would be:
Kitty
Angel
Collossus
Rogue
Cannonball



The reason I think Kitty would be on Scott's side is because she was the one who thought that Stryker had changed, and then it came back to bite everyone in the ***.

[The Black Guardian]

Xavier's dream was never that peaceful (ie, not stupidly peacenik). Yes, the dream is to ultimately have peace between mutants and humans, but on the road to that point, Xavier is not anti-killing. It's just not a primary mission. The whole point of the X-Men was to physically defend mutants and humans from those who would harm either. That's not a peaceful mission. This is the guy who created his own set of Protocols to kill the X-Men in case they ever turned bad.

Anyway, I think most still believe in the dream, however, the current situation calls for different ways to reach that dream.

[ClanAskani]

Rachel would be an interesting case. Magneto himself has had to stop her from lashing out violently with anger and as we have seen in EV those issues still there with her. If she sees a potental threat she will agressively go after it and try to eliminate it for good.


Based on Rachel's actions going after Selene, the college students who attempted to kill Prof X and Kitty, the Beyonder, the Dark Sisterhood, and now Vulcan, she doesn't have any qualms against preemptive killings or aggressively going after those she sees as a threat to her friends and family.

This could go along with what Scott is doing now with X-Force. Take out the threat before they can kill anyone else.

That's not exactly contrary to Xavier's dream. It's more of the steps needed to achieve it or defending the dream at all costs. It's hard for mutants and humans to coexist when there are evil mutants killing humans or anti-mutant groups killing mutants. All the talk in the world isn't going to stop that, nor is hiding at the Institute.

[Mitteloss]

Lorna clearly supports proactive measures to protect the mutant race. And, has made clear she knows that it isn't the 'bad' people mutants have to fear most, it is the masses that both passively and actively support the construction of the weapons used to massacre mutants.

I think, while Lorna would agree with what Cyclops is doing, she could be swayed on to a slightly more peaceful route, but it all depends who's on that side...

[jmc247]

I think, while Lorna would agree with what Cyclops is doing, she could be swayed on to a slightly more peaceful route, but it all depends who's on that side...

Well Lorna is certainly malleable and can be influenced in different directions, by different people.

[Monty_Cristo]

Mutants were always a race. This is not even up for discussion.
And they are not a race at the moment. A race propagates itself, which mutants no longer can do. At best, they're a group of les than 200 individuals. Calling them a race is like saying red-haired bridge players on Chicago are a race.

they were until my purifiers and i wiped them out.

Well Lorna is certainly malleable and can be influenced in different directions, by different people.

flip-flopper

[jmc247]

flip-flopper

Malleable wasn't a word I came up with for her. I was basically agreeing with Mitteloss that Lorna very much can be and has been swayed in different directions by certain people, well two people in particular. Though, I think Xavier also has some influence with her.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/nxm96pg10-1.jpg

[mcgaffer]

I think Kurt and Hank will always be true believers. I think Kitty, Iceman and Cannonball want to believe and so ignore the bad things. Rogue joined for help and seems more indebted to the X-Men as the people they are rather then the dream they believe in. Cyclops loves what the dream was but being a pragmatist realises it has to evolve with the times. Emma just wants to protect the kids, whichever method or dream provides the best protection is what she opts for. Colossus from very early after he debuted began questioning his place as an X-Man, it was the friendships that he developed that he believed in and fought for. Angel has always been a business man and although he wants to see Xavier's dream work he knew that it would have to evolve long before anyone else (i could seriously see Xavier only confiding in Angel about the changes he had to make to bring about his dream). Storm believes in the dream but does'nt believe Xavier is the man to bring it about. Wolverine has always believed the dream to be just that, a dream. He likes the idea but can't see it happening and he likes the people who strife to make that dream reality which is why he will always help. Also Wolverine seems to have a very unique relationship with Xavier, while the others view him as father figure/mentor. Wolverine is/was a friend in the same vein that Magneto was his friend.

[jmc247]

Based on Rachel's actions going after Selene, the college students who attempted to kill Prof X and Kitty, the Beyonder, the Dark Sisterhood, and now Vulcan, she doesn't have any qualms against preemptive killings or aggressively going after those she sees as a threat to her friends and family.

This could go along with what Scott is doing now with X-Force. Take out the threat before they can kill anyone else.

That's not exactly contrary to Xavier's dream. It's more of the steps needed to achieve it or defending the dream at all costs. It's hard for mutants and humans to coexist when there are evil mutants killing humans or anti-mutant groups killing mutants. All the talk in the world isn't going to stop that, nor is hiding at the Institute.

MLK didn't support sending armed black men to kill members of the KKK who were lynching blacks and whites who went to the south to help blacks. It was Malcolm X who believed in fighting fire with with fire. Xavier's dream is that peace between mutants and humans can be achieved by dialogue and bringing to justice those that can't be reasoned with. But, like MLK Xavier didn't believe in killing to go about dealing with the threat, unless one absolutely had to in a split second decision in order to save their lives or others lives. I probably could come up with a half a dozen scans over the years having Alex, Xavier, and Cyke clearly stating very clearly that "X-Men don't kill".

And, I could find quite a few scans of X-Men berating Magneto for eliminating major threats like Zaladane and Zealot.

If I had to say where the X-Men are today on the moral continuum I would say they are far closer to Malcolm X then MLK. While that isn't necessarily a bad thing given their situation it is certainly a real change.

[Monty_Cristo]

Shortpack is Gandhi