Super Tuesday!

[Gail Simone]

Are you inclined to vote today, if you have that option?

Gail

[Major Comma]

YES! I Most definitely am.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

My state's primary is so late that by the time our chance to vote rolls around, everything has already been decided. Kind of makes it difficult to get excited about this part of the process. I already know which party I'm going to vote for come November, so it's just a matter of whose name is going to be next to the bubble I fill in or whatever.

[Linkara]

From what I've heard, my state's caucaus either won't count or only half its delegates will count or something. Apparently it's punishment for moving up our caucus date. :rolleyes:

As such, that and my class tonight make me disinclined to vote.

[KevinTBrown]

Yep. Definitely doing it after work. I'm fortunate that where I vote is literally on the way home for me.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I'm inclined to go to Jury Duty.

Irony?

[Big Chill 61]

Never miss the chance to vote!!

[diana_fan]

Our (irrelevant) vote in Michigan was a while ago. I didn't vote then.

I can barely bring myself to vote in general elections for third party candidates, let alone primaries. One day, some day, there may be candidates worth voting for, and a populace that demands them.

When that happens, I'll be more than happy to engage in the electoral process.

[Alan Lynch]

Never miss the chance to vote!!
Let's get out and vote, let's make our voices heard! You've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd!

Apparently.

[TCJohnson]

I don't have that option. Kinda pissed about it too. By the time VA votes it won't matter.

[Flamebird]

Let's get out and vote, let's make our voices heard! You've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd!

Apparently.

The trick is figuring out which is which. :(

Pointless as it sometimes feels, I vote so I can bitch later without a guilty conscience .

Frankly, the fact that it's Fat Tuesday is of more interest to me and I'm not even Catholic.

[Alan Lynch]

Frankly, the fact that it's Fat Tuesday is of more interest to me and I'm not even Catholic.
Wait, you guys call it Fat Tuesday? Or is this a play on the pancakes thing?

I'm going to look really stupid now, I can tell.

[The Mutt]

Reporting from Memphis:

I just got back from voting. It hasn't started raining yet, but looks like massive storms coming. Very few people there, but my precinct tends to vote before or after work.

The conventional wisdom here is that Women vote early, Blacks vote late. (Not sure what that means for Black Women.)

Obama should win my precinct/district/county in a walk anyway, so I voted for the message and voted Edwards.

ETA - I just now got a phone call from Mike Huckabee. He sounds like a local TV newsman when you can't see his face. It was just a quick "vote for me" tape. He talked about his record of honesty and commitment, etc. He mentioned only one issue. He said he would defend marriage like he did back in Arkansas.

Wow, of all the issues to talk about, he chose that one. Scary.

[diana_fan]

Wait, you guys call it Fat Tuesday? Or is this a play on the pancakes thing?

I'm going to look really stupid now, I can tell.

Nah. Not stupid. :)

And yes, it's Fat Tuesday. Eat and drink it all today, since you won't ... well, you know.

And I'm an atheist. Heh.

[Alan Lynch]

Nah. Not stupid. :)

And yes, it's Fat Tuesday. Eat and drink it all today, since you won't ... well, you know.

And I'm an atheist. Heh.
Huh. We call it Pancake Day over here. And now I know better; cheers.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Huh. We call it Pancake Day over here. And now I know better; cheers.

I think it kind of varies from place to place in the US (like so many things do). I'm not sure many people where I am would know what you were talking about if you said "Fat Tuesday" OR "Pancake Day." I think "Mardi Gras" is what most people in my particular corner of the Southeast would call it, if they call it anything. Most of the religious people here belong to Protestant denominations that don't do much for Lent, Ash Wednesday, etc. I'd never seen anyone with ashes on their forehead on Ash Wednesday till I went off to college!

[Gail Simone]

Welcome, Big Chill. Glad to have you aboard!

Gail

[AndrewCrossett]

I'm voting, although I have little reason to believe that elections matter much in this country anymore.

[Tad Sivana]

I live in a tiny town, so sent in my ballot by mail last week.
I'm amazed by the groundswell of support for Barack Obama, even out here in the sticks!

[Alex L]

Voted absentee

California's now part of Super Tuesday, so oddly it sort of does feel like my vote matters now more than it did before.

...or maybe I'm paying more attention now. Could be that, too.

[scout1279]

I'm not registered to vote under a party, so I can't vote in the primaries (unless I move to New Hampshire). This allows me to complain about the lack of any real quality in my choice of candidates without feeling any responsibility for having chosen them. That's not why I registered my party as undeclared. It's just a fortunate side effect.

[Sean Walsh]

Well here in Boston it's BEYOND SUPER Tuesday, as we have the voting, a rainy day, and a Patriots paraaOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SNAP.

[Sarah Beach]

Independants (which I have been for a long, long time) in California can actually choose to vote in one primary or the other (or neither, and just vote on the local issues). I haven't voted in a primary since... before I moved to California. This is the first time I've voted in a primary here.

But some brilliant thinker chose a location this time that (1) has no parking easily available, and (2) is not easily handicap accessible - at least not that I could see. An elementary school auditorium. Not that I have to worry about the handicap accessibility, but as I went up the rather steep steps into the building, it did cross my mind to wonder about that factor.

It'll be an interesting day, that's for sure. Of course, I've got a meeting this evening, so who knows when I'll learn the results. :)

[Tor]

Someone was talking to me about absentee voting, and how it's the only way they would vote. I said to them that when you're voting in person, they have to at least handle your vote. If you vote by absentee, you're hoping that they receive AND count your vote.
I'm not ignorant enough to think that my vote is counted one way or the other, but I'm more inclined to want to look into the faces of the people who will possibly disregard my vote than hoping that some committee decides it can't be counted because of such and such a reason.
Call me a masochist.

[Corrina]

I voted early this morning. Paper ballot. Interesting. They said use their *special* pen but it seemed like an ordinary black marker to me.

A decent line for Democrats. Not much on the Republican side. Obama's people have been calling me all week. I still like Hillary's health plan better, though, so I went with her. I would have voted Edwards, had he remained in the race.

I talked to quite a few people and it's really a toss-up for many of them between Obama and Hillary.

[Evan Waters]

I've not yet registered for this county, and I don't really feel confident in my ability to vote in primaries- there's an inclination to back the candidate in your party who has the best chance of winning, and I am no good at that kind of strategic thinking.

Besides, I think either Clinton or Obama would be acceptable. I kind of favor Obama, but I don't think I'm confident enough to vote for one over the other.

[TCJohnson]

I voted early this morning. Paper ballot. Interesting. They said use their *special* pen but it seemed like an ordinary black marker to me.

A decent line for Democrats. Not much on the Republican side. Obama's people have been calling me all week. I still like Hillary's health plan better, though, so I went with her. I would have voted Edwards, had he remained in the race.

I talked to quite a few people and it's really a toss-up for many of them between Obama and Hillary.

Yeah, I really wanted to vote for Edwards too. I really think he would have done us proud as far as health care is concerned.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I'm Green, and can only vote for a Green in the primary, so I voted for.....

Cynthia McKinney!

In the general election, if Obama's in it, I may vote for him, though. I can't see myself voting for Hillary.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Let's get out and vote, let's make our voices heard! You've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd!

Apparently.

That's Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich, thank you very much.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Yeah, I really wanted to vote for Edwards too. I really think he would have done us proud as far as health care is concerned.


I was also in the Edwards camp. Our area is apparently caucusing instead of a primary. Dammit, I don't wanna spend 3 hours to do this.

[kingdom2000]

I'm Green, and can only vote for a Green in the primary, so I voted for.....

Cynthia McKinney!

In the general election, if Obama's in it, I may vote for him, though. I can't see myself voting for Hillary.

No!!!! That girl is a nutter. She is power hungry and crazy. It embarrasses me she is from this state. The only reason she is green is because needed a job.

[kingdom2000]

I voted before work for Hillary Clinton.

I posted a detailed reason on my blog (http://erasend.blogspot.com) as to why but really it came down to one year as a Senator plus good oratory skills does not a President make. We already had 7 years where the guy failed to learn on the job, I rather not have more same for the next. Not voting repub was easy since they are essentially promising the same as the Bush years, just done better. No exactly my definition of change.

[Bob Violence]

I am going a bit later. I still don't know if I should vote for the candidate who represents my whiteness or my manliness. If I were Republican this would be so easy!

[Nicola Scott]

You guys have the craziest political/voting system!

I lived in NY for a while and consider myself an honorary American. I wish I could vote!

[TCJohnson]

You guys have the craziest political/voting system!

In what way?

[scout1279]

I am going a bit later. I still don't know if I should vote for the candidate who represents my whiteness or my manliness. If I were Republican this would be so easy!
Wouldn't it be harder, since you would have 3 candidates who represent both your whiteness and your manliness?

[Dark Galaxy]

Are you inclined to vote today, if you have that option?

Gail

I'm inclined to, but don't have the option. For some reason, they only want me to vote on the day my state is holding it's primary.

Fascist bastards!

If I could vote today, I wish it could be for Edwards. I can't tell you how crushed I was to see him drop out. I will probably swing towards Obama, but neither one of the remaining candidates are supporting my issues strongly enough. I suppose, I should just be happy that good ole' GW is finally getting his ass sent back to Texas.

[CutterMike]

I'm not registered to vote under a party, so I can't vote in the primaries (unless I move to New Hampshire). This allows me to complain about the lack of any real quality in my choice of candidates without feeling any responsibility for having chosen them. That's not why I registered my party as undeclared. It's just a fortunate side effect.

Here in Massachusetts, "Unenrolled" (Independent/Undeclared/whatever) means I can choose to be a Republican For A Day or a Democrat For A Day.

I'm planning to go and vote as soon as I get out of the office - it's on my walk home, which is convenient.

I'm frankly tempted to vote on the Republican ballot, just so I can do my part to make sure that Romney DOESN'T carry Massachusetts. Ideally, I'd like him lose all credibility by coming in dead last in his "home" state.

Ah, well - I'll decide what I'll do when I get there.

Meanwhile, the rest of you; VOTE EARLY AND OFTEN!

[heystacy]

I've been living under a rock. Sadly I just got my voting card and did not check the dates. I've also been working and not checking any relevant news about voting. :o

[The Mutt]

In what way?

Well, one way is that if you say you are voting for candidate A because he is black, people will call you courageous.

If you say you are voting for candidate B because he is white, you will be fired.

[Darediva]

I voted early yesterday, still had to stand in line a while. I had the choice of an electronic ballot or paper ballot. I took the electronic one. I noticed that it also printed a paper "receipt" that noted my choice. Cool.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I voted early yesterday, still had to stand in line a while. I had the choice of an electronic ballot or paper ballot. I took the electronic one. I noticed that it also printed a paper "receipt" that noted my choice. Cool.

Good. Hopefully, the machine kept a paper record too. I'm a big believer in paper ballots.

[Briareos]

I voted for Romney

[Kevinroc]

I already cast my vote for Obama.

[Tyr]

My state's primary is so late that by the time our chance to vote rolls around, everything has already been decided. Kind of makes it difficult to get excited about this part of the process. I already know which party I'm going to vote for come November, so it's just a matter of whose name is going to be next to the bubble I fill in or whatever.

Same here, ours don't happen until the 19th, all this coverage makes me feel so left out. :(


Let's get out and vote, let's make our voices heard! You've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd!

Apparently.

Well when a Scotsman tells me to vote, I guess I should vote then...

I'm having a tough time deciding between Obama and McCain, I greatly favor Obama over Clinton, and slightly favor McCain over Romney.

I don't see alot of difference between McCain and Romney other then issues of immigration and the enviroment, in which case I favor McCain.

Only problem is while I was opposed to going to war with Iraq, I believe were stuck in it now, and I don't believe there is a clear cut solution to pulling out of it, like Obama would lead me to believe, gee this is tough. :(

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Same here, ours don't happen until the 19th, all this coverage makes me feel so left out. :(


Ours isn't till May!!! :eek:

[DungeonmasterJim]

Would you believe I completely forgot today was Super Tuesday?

But I've got a good excuse. I was fighting a migraine at work last night and went to bed soon after getting home. 10 hours later at 8:45pm I finally woke up again.

DM Jim

[Dazzler]

I voted my butt off.

I'm really looking forward to the outcome of the primary, so the clearly best choice, whoever she may be, will be revealed.

We've had 8 years of a total know-nothing having the reins of this country to play with. It would be stellar to have someone in control who knows what she's doing, instead of playing at politics for dubious reasons.

--Dazz

[Crowley]

I'm non partisan so I didn't vote.

If I was registered Democrat I would have voted Obama, If I was still Republican I'd have voted McCain.

[Riker Omega Three]

I feel inclined to do so, but our primary isn't until May. I just got registered to vote, and I really want to vote, just to see what the process is like, even if it's just a primary. It's so unfair all these other states get to do it before us. :)

[Dr Ray Palmer]

I feel inclined to do so, but our primary isn't until May.

Yeah, that really encourages one to be excited about the primary process, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[Tyr]

I'm non partisan so I didn't vote.

If I was registered Democrat I would have voted Obama, If I was still Republican I'd have voted McCain.

Your not helping, Crowley. ;)

[Darediva]

Good. Hopefully, the machine kept a paper record too. I'm a big believer in paper ballots.

Oh, it did. There was a little thing beside the screen like a register tape that scrolled up with the info on it, then scrolled out of sight when I finished casting my ballot.

Interestingly enough, the ballots for Craighead County, AR won't be counted until tomorrow, because of the line of tornadic activity that rolled through here this evening, sending the county clerk and her election staff to the basement of the courthouse for shelter. She called the local tv station to let them know that.

Around the MidSouth, we will remember Super Tuesday for another reason entirely. As of this writing, eleven people are known to have died in the tornadoes that swept through AR and TN.

[Major Comma]

Well the republicans look like they have a nominee,
but the democrats dont.
Bummer.

[Mysterio]

Nevermind...

[Riker Omega Three]

Yeah, that really encourages one to be excited about the primary process, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

Steven Grant had an idea recently about having a lottery to determine the order of primary dates, and then changing it up every few cycles, so Iowa and New Hampshire don't always get to set the tone for the rest of the nation. I sort of liked it, but I'm not sure it would ever happen.

[Corrina]

Well, those registered Democrat and still waiting on their primaries looks like they may have their say down the line.

I don't know what to make of the results last night, to sort out what happened.

Arkansas is a *weird* state. On the Democrat side, they go for Hillary, which makes some sense, her sorta home state and all. On the Republican side, Huckabee.

And if there's one person Huckabee supporters must hate, it's the Clintons.

A very divided state, Arkansas. About the only thing I can say is that they like charistmatic governors.

[Alan Lynch]

Well when a Scotsman tells me to vote, I guess I should vote then...
Hey, we have elections too! I rode my bike down and everything.

[Michael P]

And if there's one person Huckabee supporters must hate, it's the Clintons.


Well, it's not like the people voting for Hillary in the Democratic primary are the same people voting for Huckabee in the Republican primary.

Really, it says more about the state's unity. Regardless of party, they'll vote for a candidate with strong Arkansas identification every time.

[Gail Simone]

Reporting from Memphis:

I just got back from voting. It hasn't started raining yet, but looks like massive storms coming. Very few people there, but my precinct tends to vote before or after work.

The conventional wisdom here is that Women vote early, Blacks vote late. (Not sure what that means for Black Women.)

Obama should win my precinct/district/county in a walk anyway, so I voted for the message and voted Edwards.

ETA - I just now got a phone call from Mike Huckabee. He sounds like a local TV newsman when you can't see his face. It was just a quick "vote for me" tape. He talked about his record of honesty and commitment, etc. He mentioned only one issue. He said he would defend marriage like he did back in Arkansas.

Wow, of all the issues to talk about, he chose that one. Scary.


The Republican platform has been for a long time, hit the fear-based, divisive issues as hard as possible. I actually felt we were getting a little bit less of that this year. Sorry to hear that's not the case here!

Gail

[Gail Simone]

I voted for Romney

You know, I'm asking this sincerely. It seems pretty clear that the hard, hardcore Conservatives loathe McCain. A mess have said they'd take Hillary over McCain, they hate him so much.

But the guy's voting record is ridiculously hardcore Conservative almost right down the line.

Do you hate McCain, and if so, why?

Gail

[the4thpip]

Maybe Bri is allergic to walnuts?

[stamen]

Do you hate McCain, and if so, why?

Gail

I voted for Romney. Personally, I think he's a smart guy and I like the idea of stimulating growth through tax relief in short spurts, and his commitment to fund research and development.

I like McCain fairly well, but I really wanted to see a couple of Washington outsiders square up for Presidency -- a Romney vs Obama ticket would be good for the country I think.

[LtMarvel]

I voted bright and early, #31 at the polling place.

[4PointOh]

I'm from Brooklyn, NY. I'm a gay, African-American male. I voted at 6:50 yesterday morning. I was torn between Clinton and Obama, but went for Obama in the end simply because I liked the idea of him having a fresh, hopeful perspective. Also, I knew that Clinton would win the state (and eventually the nomination) and I'd be able to vote for her in the national election.

It was a nice change of pace to have the problem of trying to decide between the "greater of two goods."

:D

[Major Comma]

I am an independent not a Republican .
But i cant stand Mcain.
Watching him in debates ,
He appears to have the temperment of a 5 year old.

[The Mutt]

You know, I'm asking this sincerely. It seems pretty clear that the hard, hardcore Conservatives loathe McCain. A mess have said they'd take Hillary over McCain, they hate him so much.

But the guy's voting record is ridiculously hardcore Conservative almost right down the line.

Do you hate McCain, and if so, why?

Gail

Bob Dole sent a letter to Rush Limbaugh telling him to lay off McCain "for the good of the party."

Anybody still doubt that Rush is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the GOP?

[Corrina]

It was a nice change of pace to have the problem of trying to decide between the "greater of two goods."

:D

That's how I felt, exactly.

Boy, the Democratic side is close. Makes me wonder what the behind the scenes movements might be. For instance, Hillary did win Florida--but the delegates didn't count. But suppose she uses that win to leverage support, on the theory that she won more votes there?

And Edwards has a few delegates still, too. Not many but they might come into play. I've no idea who he would favor.

What are the big states left? Texas, Ohio....looks like the trends would favor Obama in Ohio and Hillary in Texas.

[Corrina]

But the guy's voting record is ridiculously hardcore Conservative almost right down the line.

Do you hate McCain, and if so, why?

Gail

Yeah, I don't get the McCain hate, either. Is it that he was a target while running against Bush and they still hate him?

Though I'm guessing it's the immigration issue. The strong conservatives who see the illegal aliens as a serious threat to the economy (among other things) and didn't like Bush's plan also don't like McCain's stance on the issue.

Romney, I cannot stand in the least. I think it's funny that the former moderate governor of MASSACHUSETTS is seen as more conservative than McCain. And trust me, he was a moderate when he won the governor's office here. What makes him a trustworthy conservative now?

I don't get it.

[Nick Soapdish]

Well, those registered Democrat and still waiting on their primaries looks like they may have their say down the line.


Very ironic, in the case of Florida.

And apparently, a lot of people were calling up the polls yesterday, trying to figure out where the polling spot for their precinct.

Our Legislature is just a bunch of doofuses.

[jerrymcl89]

Yeah, I don't get the McCain hate, either. Is it that he was a target while running against Bush and they still hate him?

Though I'm guessing it's the immigration issue. The strong conservatives who see the illegal aliens as a serious threat to the economy (among other things) and didn't like Bush's plan also don't like McCain's stance on the issue.



Immigration is a big part of it. McCain's attacks on the Religious Right in 2000 have not been forgotten, either. And although McCain's base positions are mostly conservative, he's also a guy who likes to cut deals, and often co-sponsors bills with Democrats. Real political partisans usually dislike and distrust guys like that.

The intriguing part of last night's results, to me, is that Obama won mostly red states, and McCain won mostly blue ones. If Obama winds up with the nomination, that could make for an unconventional general election. I doubt Obama can actually carry the southern states, but he might win some of the mountain ones. And McCain is a threat to pick off usually safe states in the Northeast (not New York, but possibly New Jersey). If Hillary wins, the electoral map will probably look a lot more like it has in the last two elections.

[Major Comma]

Its nice not to know whats going to happen for months,
more suspense.

[scout1279]

Immigration is a big part of it. McCain's attacks on the Religious Right in 2000 have not been forgotten, either. And although McCain's base positions are mostly conservative, he's also a guy who likes to cut deals, and often co-sponsors bills with Democrats. Real political partisans usually dislike and distrust guys like that.

I am an Independent, but I come from a very Conservative family, so I feel confident speaking on their behalf. McCain's views on immigration are the number one reason for all the hate. His willingness to cut deals is second, but still major. I'm not to sure about his attacks on the Religious Right in 2000, but I suspect that plays a role for some and not others.

Personally, I used to like McCain quite a bit, but I feel that his gone back on a lot of his former "party maverick" beliefs. He's more conservative now than ever. I think that th entirety of the Republican party is pretty crazy for not getting behind him though, because he's the most likely to get independents to vote for him, and I suspect that 2008 is going to be a very close race.

[TCJohnson]

I wonkuld think that most people would like somebody that can work with both parties. It is only the extremes on both sides that wouldn't like that.

That said, I don't like McCain. He changed his opinion too many times. That and the whole, Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran pissed me off.

[The Mutt]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/The_Mutt_pics/Page_1_2.jpg

[Tyr]

Ours isn't till May!!! :eek:

Isn't it nice to know that your primary vote is worthless? The only good thing about this is that the Democrat primary is its still to close to call, so I can vote for Obama, and give myself the illusion that I'm making a difference. :(

[Lester C.]

I voted for Obama. I didn't go to vote for Obama, as he had the race locked, but their were other closer local primaries that made it imperative to drag my ass out in the snow.

[Briareos]

You know, I'm asking this sincerely. It seems pretty clear that the hard, hardcore Conservatives loathe McCain. A mess have said they'd take Hillary over McCain, they hate him so much.

But the guy's voting record is ridiculously hardcore Conservative almost right down the line.

Do you hate McCain, and if so, why?

Gail

Let's see he's voted against the Bush Tax cuts. He's voted for amnesty for Illegal Aliens. He's voted for federal funding for stem cell research. He's said that judges like Alito are too conservative. He seems to say and act things that will get him good press in the mainstream media. Are there a few things I like yes. He has credability on cutting the budget (he's never used a earmark) and he at least seems to have a basic understanding of how we need to fight terrorism.

[Briareos]

The Republican platform has been for a long time, hit the fear-based, divisive issues as hard as possible. I actually felt we were getting a little bit less of that this year. Sorry to hear that's not the case here!

Gail

As opposed to the Democrats running "Bush is going to draft your kids send them to Iraq and Ban Abortion and Steal all your money and give it to his rich friends"?

[kingdom2000]

As opposed to the Democrats running "Bush is going to draft your kids send them to Iraq and Ban Abortion and Steal all your money and give it to his rich friends"?

LOL, if your going to make stuff up at least try better. Especially amusing that you equate the "stealing" with getting blown up by terrorists. Because the two are the same. I could go on but the your whole statement is just so damn silly its not worth the effort.

As an idea though of how people can get stupid ideas in their heads, check out this video. (http://www.rocketboom.com/vlog/rb_08_feb_05)

[kingdom2000]

Let's see he's voted against the Bush Tax cuts. He's voted for amnesty for Illegal Aliens. He's voted for federal funding for stem cell research. He's said that judges like Alito are too conservative. He seems to say and act things that will get him good press in the mainstream media. Are there a few things I like yes. He has credability on cutting the budget (he's never used a earmark) and he at least seems to have a basic understanding of how we need to fight terrorism.

Tax cuts - good. Only for corporations and rich, little benefit to others. Would have been fine but Bush is spending money as if there is no consequence. Being in debt to China seems like idiotic fiscal policy.

Amnesty - bad. There already exist immigration laws, they should be inforced. Of course thanks to Bush and is piss poor pro-corporate, war policies, the money doesn't exist.

Alito - good. The man is too conservative. Hell, along with Thomas, I don't even know why they bother to show up to court. What they are going to vote is practically pre-destined.

Cutting budget - good. Never seen it happen, its one of those things politicans throw out and has no meaning.

Stem Cells - Good. this moronic idea that life is being destroyed needs to end...because the cells are destroyed anyway. What do you think they did before, implant them into women? Before these religious nutters even knew the concept existed, what in the hell do they think happens, did happens, and continues to happen to unused stem cells? thousands of tiny buriels? few hail merries? Jesus comes and scoops them up and brings them to heaven? when someone talks about stem cells like that, all i can think is "moron."

boogeymen - same. Its the new slogan. Kill the bad guys and I know how. More crap, don't care what politican says it.

[Kyuubi]

I voted Obama.

[Briareos]

Tax cuts - good. Only for corporations and rich, little benefit to others. Would have been fine but Bush is spending money as if there is no consequence. Being in debt to China seems like idiotic fiscal policy.

Amnesty - bad. There already exist immigration laws, they should be inforced. Of course thanks to Bush and is piss poor pro-corporate, war policies, the money doesn't exist.

Alito - good. The man is too conservative. Hell, along with Thomas, I don't even know why they bother to show up to court. What they are going to vote is practically pre-destined.

Cutting budget - good. Never seen it happen, its one of those things politicans throw out and has no meaning.

Stem Cells - Good. this moronic idea that life is being destroyed needs to end...because the cells are destroyed anyway. What do you think they did before, implant them into women? Before these religious nutters even knew the concept existed, what in the hell do they think happens, did happens, and continues to happen to unused stem cells? thousands of tiny buriels? few hail merries? Jesus comes and scoops them up and brings them to heaven? when someone talks about stem cells like that, all i can think is "moron."

boogeymen - same. Its the new slogan. Kill the bad guys and I know how. More crap, don't care what politican says it.


Taxes - Yes all those people who got jobs and the growth of the middle class in the 80's and under Bush (the reason we have a shrinking middle class is that middle class income rose) don't exist.

Alito - And Ruth Bader Ginsberg is such a maverick on the bench....

[sk716]

Well, those registered Democrat and still waiting on their primaries looks like they may have their say down the line.

I don't know what to make of the results last night, to sort out what happened.

Arkansas is a *weird* state. On the Democrat side, they go for Hillary, which makes some sense, her sorta home state and all. On the Republican side, Huckabee.

And if there's one person Huckabee supporters must hate, it's the Clintons.

A very divided state, Arkansas. About the only thing I can say is that they like charistmatic governors.

Well, it's not like the people voting for Hillary in the Democratic primary are the same people voting for Huckabee in the Republican primary.

Really, it says more about the state's unity. Regardless of party, they'll vote for a candidate with strong Arkansas identification every time.

No, Corrina had it right.

We don't agree on much. Hillary won the state because of the two democratic candidates, she's the one we know. No surprises. We know how she thinks and how she's likely to handle most situations.

Huck won because the conservatives around here really are that conservative. And the "big money" around the state knows how much Huck likes to have nice things for him and Janet.

But there really is a vast differing of political opinions. When the religious right started getting a little power, the fundies around here decided they liked the taste of that power. Arkansas being a "bible belt" state, has a lot of fundies. Just not as many fundies as there are Democrats, they're a very loud and annoying minority. It really hasn't been a pleasant political environment.

[Sabrinaset]

I think what we need is a post by BeetleBum to put it all in perspective!

[Riker Omega Three]

In listening to a lot of right-wing media, the conservatives criticizing McCain seem to be angry about his "voting against the Bush tax cuts, supporting amnesty, co-sponsoring the McCain-Feingold censorship bill." That's how a lot of commentators phrase that last one. It's weird to me how the so-called "Bush tax cuts," which I still don't understand but I'll leave that aside, seem to be the first thing out of their mouths. They can offer more detailed criticism for the other two, but that's always the first thing they mention.

[beetlebum]

I think what we need is a post by BeetleBum to put it all in perspective!

Speak of the devil (herself.) :evilsmile:

Hillary won 8 states, while Obama won twelve.


I don't get why people miss John Edwards. To me, he was a pretty boy populist who would have implemented Great Society like plans (which sound good in theory, but that , along with spending from the Vietnam War, led to double digit inflation and unemployment for two decades.)

I like Obama. To me, his ingenuity is appealing, and he actually fills me with a sense of hope, which is kind of hard to do given how phlegmatic I normally am.

So far, the projections have predicted that Obama will win more delegates.

NBC news predicts Obama will receive between 840-849 delegates, while Clinton will receive between 829-838.

I love proportional representation, don't you? :evilsmile:

And what's this nonsense about people being fired for voting for white candidates? That's hyperbolic nonsense based on facts that can be easily disproved.

http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/nofear/protections.shtm

[stamen]

Stem Cells - Good. this moronic idea that life is being destroyed needs to end...because the cells are destroyed anyway. What do you think they did before, implant them into women? Before these religious nutters even knew the concept existed, what in the hell do they think happens, did happens, and continues to happen to unused stem cells? thousands of tiny buriels? few hail merries? Jesus comes and scoops them up and brings them to heaven? when someone talks about stem cells like that, all i can think is "moron."

The stem cell debate is much more complicated than that. The media makes it sounds like it's just the right to lifers that object. They just bark the loudest about it.

At issue for me is the rush to science without ever even bothering to ask the ethical questions. Just because we can do a thing, doesn't mean that the thing should be done. If we want to adopt a "needs of the many" approach to science, that's fine... call it what it is and scrap the constitution so we can all be utilitarians.

[Dark Galaxy]

In listening to a lot of right-wing media, the conservatives criticizing McCain seem to be angry about his "voting against the Bush tax cuts, supporting amnesty, co-sponsoring the McCain-Feingold censorship bill." That's how a lot of commentators phrase that last one. It's weird to me how the so-called "Bush tax cuts," which I still don't understand but I'll leave that aside, seem to be the first thing out of their mouths. They can offer more detailed criticism for the other two, but that's always the first thing they mention.

Now, I don't agree with most everything that John McCain stands for. But, I think the reason that most right wing talkers hate him, is that he isn't their monkey boy. He has a brain in his head, it seems that he does what he believes is right for his party and his country, and that scares the crap out of them.



**And I would like to take this moment to say, that every time I see a post by Riker Omega Three, I get an instant mental picture of two federation chaps engaging a self destruct sequence. And it always makes me giggle. :)

[Evan Waters]

I don't get why people miss John Edwards. To me, he was a pretty boy populist who would have implemented Great Society like plans (which sound good in theory, but that , along with spending from the Vietnam War, led to double digit inflation and unemployment for two decades.)

To be fair, though, that "along with the Vietnam War" bit seems to be kinda key. Without the war LBJ would probably be much better remembered.

[kipster]

I voted before work for Hillary Clinton.

I posted a detailed reason on my blog (http://erasend.blogspot.com) as to why but really it came down to one year as a Senator plus good oratory skills does not a President make. We already had 7 years where the guy failed to learn on the job, I rather not have more same for the next. Not voting repub was easy since they are essentially promising the same as the Bush years, just done better. No exactly my definition of change.

Bush was a governor for 5 years, and his experience didn't seem to help. I'll take the one year as a senator and good oratory skills!

Plus, Hilary just seems to flip flop and tell people what they want to hear to get their vote. I read that she dropped the "Rodham" from her name because surveys showed that the public didn't like her using it. That seems pretty shallow and weak to me.

[Riker Omega Three]

Now, I don't agree with most everything that John McCain stands for. But, I think the reason that most right wing talkers hate him, is that he isn't their monkey boy. He has a brain in his head, it seems that he does what he believes is right for his party and his country, and that scares the crap out of them.

I definitely think that's true for the talking heads out there. They really don't seem to like people who tell them things they don't want to hear or don't already believe.

**And I would like to take this moment to say, that every time I see a post by Riker Omega Three, I get an instant mental picture of two federation chaps engaging a self destruct sequence. And it always makes me giggle. :)

I used to have this nice Star Trek insignia avatar, but I think it got deleted by accident. But I promise not to use my user name to blow anything up around here or anything. :)

[Riker Omega Three]

I don't get why people miss John Edwards. To me, he was a pretty boy populist who would have implemented Great Society like plans (which sound good in theory, but that , along with spending from the Vietnam War, led to double digit inflation and unemployment for two decades.)

What I don't understand is why no one mentions that the primary reason Edwards got elected to the Senate is because the incumbent, Lauch Faircloth, ran nothing but negative ads against him. A lot of people crossed party lines to vote for Edwards because of it. And I know some people around these parts came to see him as something of a disappointment, not too long afterward.

[beetlebum]

To be fair, though, that "along with the Vietnam War" bit seems to be kinda key. Without the war LBJ would probably be much better remembered.


But you don't throw money at a cause in order to solve it. His "War On Poverty" led to even more poverty, and did not achieve the goals that were stated. The best way to end poverty is through education and work, and that's why Mohammad Younis's loans to Bangladesh's poor are considered the work of a genius and have earned him a Nobel Peace Prize. Take it from someone whose mother earns less than $40,000 a year.

[beetlebum]

What I don't understand is why no one mentions that the primary reason Edwards got elected to the Senate is because the incumbent, Lauch Faircloth, ran nothing but negative ads against him. A lot of people crossed party lines to vote for Edwards because of it. And I know some people around these parts came to see him as something of a disappointment, not too long afterward.

I can't think of a reason why, except maybe those things were lost in the mists of time (event though it was fairly recent.)

[Sabrinaset]

I can't think of a reason why, except maybe those things were lost in the mists of time (event though it was fairly recent.)

You mean like in Land of the Lost?

[beetlebum]

You mean like in Land of the Lost?

Isn't that what we call a bunch of blondes who are allowed to drive? :p

*Sigh* I wish I could use the laughing smilies.....

[Adam C]

Bush was a governor for 5 years, and his experience didn't seem to help. I'll take the one year as a senator and good oratory skills!


Indeed. Bush's failures aren't due to lack of experience, but rather due to a lack of ever having to had to take responsibility for anything.

And one year as Senator? I can understand favouring Hilary due to experience, but he's been a Senator since 2005 and was a state legislator in Illinois before then since 1996.

[Adam C]

Taxes - Yes all those people who got jobs and the growth of the middle class in the 80's and under Bush (the reason we have a shrinking middle class is that middle class income rose) don't exist.

Wait. You're arguing that middle class grew under Bush while simultaneously saying yes it's shrinking?

And is rising middle class income all that good if the class itself is shrinking?

(Never mind that you completely failed to address the stupidity of implementing tax cuts when you're spending like a drunken John in a Brothel, and especially when you're at war.)

[Alex L]

Wait. You're arguing that middle class grew under Bush while simultaneously saying yes it's shrinking?

And is rising middle class income all that good if the class itself is shrinking?

(Never mind that you completely failed to address the stupidity of implementing tax cuts when you're spending like a drunken John in a Brothel, and especially when you're at war.)

He's saying that the middle class is rising to become the upper class.

...which, from all I keep hearing, isn't happening.

[kingdom2000]

The stem cell debate is much more complicated than that. The media makes it sounds like it's just the right to lifers that object. They just bark the loudest about it.

At issue for me is the rush to science without ever even bothering to ask the ethical questions. Just because we can do a thing, doesn't mean that the thing should be done. If we want to adopt a "needs of the many" approach to science, that's fine... call it what it is and scrap the constitution so we can all be utilitarians.

Agreed, but out right bans doesn't help determine best solutions either. No idea your needs of the many argument is coming from though. Trying to figure out the context, how it applies to stem cells and coming up blank. Could you explain that further?

[kingdom2000]

Bush was a governor for 5 years, and his experience didn't seem to help. I'll take the one year as a senator and good oratory skills!

Plus, Hilary just seems to flip flop and tell people what they want to hear to get their vote. I read that she dropped the "Rodham" from her name because surveys showed that the public didn't like her using it. That seems pretty shallow and weak to me.

I eqate the two. Bush had five years, but because he is borderline retarded, it wasn't enough. One year isn't enough either. If Obama would actually give out ideas and plans I might change my mind but currently his entire campaign is a long series of platitudes like:

“Our time has come… Our movement is real… Change is coming to America… We are more than a collection of red states and blue states. We are and always will be the United States of America… This time can be different…. Not this time. Not this year…. This time we have to seize the moment…. This fall, we owe the American people a real choice…. We have to choose between change and more of the same, we have to choose between looking backwards and looking forward. We have to choose between our future and our past…. We can do this… We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek…. Yes we can…. Yes we can….”

It no different then any other politican, his delivery is just better. When he steps up to the plate and actually says concrete things, maybe then I will take him seriousily. Besides, I will take a flip flopper any day of the week. We have already seen what happens when leaders are unwilling to change their minds under any circumstances.

[kingdom2000]

Not that the republican ticket has been unoffically decided as McCain / Romney, what now? Bri and Sam going to go hari kari? Vote for Hillary?

The dems should look out. Now that the repubs have things settled, their war machine can start cranking up. Right now money has favored the Dems but that may no longer be the case especially since the Repubs will about a 4 month lead time. On top of that, Repubs have proven they are truly the best at getting the American sheep to eat shit and ask for more. Any advantage they get makes it 10x harder for the dems to overcome (in part because of their tendency to self destruct in the home stretch).

[Adam C]

I eqate the two. Bush had five years, but because he is borderline retarded, it wasn't enough. One year isn't enough either.

As I said before it isn't one year. In fact it's three at this point. Whether that's enough is another matter.

But the main thing I take issue with is that lack of experience was necessarily the problem with the Bush administration. Bush had plenty of experience in the private sector, and bungled it completely only to have his Dad's friends bail him. Moreover, if you look at the careers of Donald Rumsfeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld), Dick Cheney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney), and Paul Wolfowitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz) all three had plenty of political experience. More than enough to make Hilary blush. And yet they were the ones who designed the failed Iraq policy, not because they lacked experience, but because they were ideologues sure of their own plans and visions, as well as disdainful of anything that got in the way of them.

The reason I emphasize this point has less to do with the upcoming election (no one can afford to make the similar mistakes as Bush; by virtue of his reign they are by definition going to have to be cautious) than the fact that bad or even disasterous governance can arise out of factors that have nothing to do with lack of experience. And that's a danger to well keep in mind when assessing political decisions.

[kingdom2000]

The reason I emphasize this point has less to do with the upcoming election (no one can afford to make the similar mistakes as Bush; by virtue of his reign they are by definition going to have to be cautious) than the fact that bad or even disasterous governance can arise out of factors that have nothing to do with lack of experience. And that's a danger to well keep in mind when assessing political decisions.

Three years, where about 2 years of which was campaigning in some form or other (be it for other dems or himself). So I am sticking with my one year number.

As for experience not being the end all, I agree with that. I have had more then a few bosses where experience was a problem and not a help. Also bosses where lack of experience was a big problem. The lack of has consistently caused more problems (do mostly to knowing how to filter).

If the Bush years hadn't been so disastrous, I would probably be an Obama man. Inspiration is good. But right now I want action, not words. Obama is nothing but platitudes. Feel good platitudes but empty words none the less. If he wants to finally get into details and impress with with more then empty words, I am willing to listen. Currently I am un-impressed by his frequent imspirational speeches. Its nice, but its simply not enough. Show me the plans of a leader. Show me HOW he plans to bring change not just talk about it.

The first step would be for him to step up and quit reacting to Clinton and start taking the lead on the campaign. Force her to deal with him instead of vice versa.

[Briareos]

He's saying that the middle class is rising to become the upper class.

...which, from all I keep hearing, isn't happening.

What happens is that people describe a class as a fit set of income and a range in that set. But people move in that set. People's real income has moved up. The people at the upper end have increased and the lower end has stayed at a static population. This means that the middle class is becoming better off as a whole.

[Michael P]

What happens is that people describe a class as a fit set of income and a range in that set. But people move in that set. People's real income has moved up.
No it hasn't. Wages, measured against the cost of living, fell last year.

The people at the upper end have increased and the lower end has stayed at a static population. This means that the middle class is becoming better off as a whole.

Wow. Talk about your fuzzy math. The rich getting richer and the poor staying poor does not mean the middle class gets bigger. It means the middle class vanishes. Which is exactly what's been happening the last seven years.

[stamen]

But you don't throw money at a cause in order to solve it.

That's the Democratic way. Unless of course you're a Republican, then you can throw it an whole different direction. Personally, I am beyond disillusioned with the two-party system. If someone does rise from outside the ranks and become Prez during my lifetime, I will be very surprised.

What we need, in my opinion, is to have the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, which was signed under the Clinton adminstration, expanded and better funded. To me, laws of this nature get the very best out of both parties.

[Kyuubi]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/overt/1202613581589.jpg

[The Mutt]

Oh for crying out loud.

The idea that the middle class is shrinking because they are all getting richer is bullshit of the Rush/Hannity level.

It's a flat lie.

Ask your friends. Ask your family.

Were you better off ten years ago?

[stamen]

Oh for crying out loud.

The idea that the middle class is shrinking because they are all getting richer is bullshit of the Rush/Hannity level.

It's a flat lie.

Ask your friends. Ask your family.

Were you better off ten years ago?

We all are much better off... immediate and extended family. But then again, like most Americans, we never had an income problem, we had a spending problem. The majority of Americans spend more money than they make. They never get caught up, never get ahead, and therefore never get around to building wealth.

Since eliminating a "just charge it" mentality, and paying off 100% of our debts, including our vehicles, we put ourselves in the position to begin building wealth. I didn't ask the government to do it for me, I just did it.

If people in America were to suddenly start making more money, it still wouldn't address the fact that far too many are content to live beyond their means.