Secret Wars II question

[Titanium]

So what was the point in retconning out the Beyonder, Secret Wars II, and all that in Illuminati?

It just hit me that I totally forgot this in between all this skrull stuff and OMD. There has to be a bigger reason for turning the beyonder into an inhuman and then making it so Secret Wars II never really happened. So I'm wondering if there's been anything said about this out there.

Because out of all of the Illuminati issues, that one now seems the most pointless.

[Roquefort Raider]

So what was the point in retconning out the Beyonder, Secret Wars II, and all that in Illuminati?

It just hit me that I totally forgot this in between all this skrull stuff and OMD. There has to be a bigger reason for turning the beyonder into an inhuman and then making it so Secret Wars II never really happened. So I'm wondering if there's been anything said about this out there.

Because out of all of the Illuminati issues, that one now seems the most pointless.

Wait, wait, wait... Secret wars II never happened???

I'm out of the loop, just what is supposed to have happened, then?


(Man, I HATE retcons...)

[Chiasm]

Wait, wait, wait... Secret wars II never happened???

I'm out of the loop, just what is supposed to have happened, then?


(Man, I HATE retcons...)

Right there with you. I do recall hearing something about the Beyonder being retconned into an Inhuman but the rest of its new to me. Not saying he's wrong, I just wasn't aware of it.

I hate retcons too. Oh well, at least they haven't voided 20 years of continuity in any books recently . . . . . well at least in the last month.

But it seems retconning is all Marvel is doing lately.

Bucky isn't dead. He's the new Captain America.

The New X-men were actually the 2nd group of New X-men.

Next thing you know there are going to tell us Spiderman never got married and the last 20 years never happened exactly and that because its magic we should just accept it . . . . . oh wait.

[XPac]

So what was the point in retconning out the Beyonder, Secret Wars II, and all that in Illuminati?

It just hit me that I totally forgot this in between all this skrull stuff and OMD. There has to be a bigger reason for turning the beyonder into an inhuman and then making it so Secret Wars II never really happened. So I'm wondering if there's been anything said about this out there.

Because out of all of the Illuminati issues, that one now seems the most pointless.

Bendis has said that this particular issue is open to interpretation... so you can view it as a retcon of Secret Wars 2, or you can look it as him just playing games with the Illuminati.

Since Bendis said it's open to interpretation, I'm assuming there won't be a follow up from him. Not exatly sure how that issue adds to the bigger picture with the skrulls though.

[Doesitmatter]

I thought the Beyonder was retconned into being a sentient Cosmic Cube. Then Bendis decided he was an Inhuman.

Neither one is going to make me care about the character.

[matthewaos]

I thought the Beyonder was retconned into being a sentient Cosmic Cube. Then Bendis decided he was an Inhuman.

Neither one is going to make me care about the character.

What the man said.

[XPac]

I thought the Beyonder was retconned into being a sentient Cosmic Cube. Then Bendis decided he was an Inhuman.

Neither one is going to make me care about the character.

Honestly, they should have just left him dead.

Beyonder dying at the end of Secret Wars 2 in order to create a new universe (possibly the New Universe) seemed a pretty satisfactory ending for those that liked and disliked the character.

Problem with comics... they can never just let the dead be.

[Peeps]

Honestly, they should have just left him dead.

Beyonder dying at the end of Secret Wars 2 in order to create a new universe (possibly the New Universe) seemed a pretty satisfactory ending for those that liked and disliked the character.

Problem with comics... they can never just let the dead be.

the way i read it, and you can take it for what it is, is that the illuminati tried to stop the beyonder from setting foot on earth, so they went to confront him before he got there. SWII still took place, that much they couldnt convince him not to.

i dont think this issue has changed anything about how the beyonder died at all.

i think some of the retcons mentioned have been brilliant, including the whole winter soldier, vulcan/petra/darwin and the others. just because a writers new idea springs off of an old one, doesnt make it garbage, it (to me) is a brilliant way to inject new life into the characters & book

[XPac]

the way i read it, and you can take it for what it is, is that the illuminati tried to stop the beyonder from setting foot on earth, so they went to confront him before he got there. SWII still took place, that much they couldnt convince him not to.

i dont think this issue has changed anything about how the beyonder died at all.

i think some of the retcons mentioned have been brilliant, including the whole winter soldier, vulcan/petra/darwin and the others. just because a writers new idea springs off of an old one, doesnt make it garbage, it (to me) is a brilliant way to inject new life into the characters & book

Yeah but Beyonders death was retconned long before Bendis stepped up to the plate. Secret Wars 3 retcons the Beyonder to being a cosmic cube, which leads to Kosmos and the Maker and all that other stuff. Last we saw the Beyonder (prior to Bendis retcon) was in the Thanos series, and I guess Annihilation to a degree.

[DDM]

This is a pointless retcon. Marvel, STOP IT!

[Clea]

So what was the point in retconning out the Beyonder, Secret Wars II, and all that in Illuminati?

It just hit me that I totally forgot this in between all this skrull stuff and OMD. There has to be a bigger reason for turning the beyonder into an inhuman and then making it so Secret Wars II never really happened. So I'm wondering if there's been anything said about this out there.

Because out of all of the Illuminati issues, that one now seems the most pointless.

I'm probably the only person on earth who liked this issue of Illuminati, but then, I didn't think that Bendis was seriously suggesting that the Beyonder was an Inhuman. :p

I think he was just messing with the Illuminati (and with the readers). It seemed like one big joke to me: Marvel has retconned the Beyonder a few times. He doesn't really make much sense, so why not toss out another, really absurd retcon that leaves the Illuminati all scratching their heads and saying, "What?" I thought that issue was hugely funny. Even if Bendis never follows up on it again, and the whole idea of Beyonder-as-Inhuman is never mentioned again, I'll still like this one quite a bit.

[XPac]

Yeah, there are a lot of options that a future writer wishing to use the Beyonder can take from one.

If we presume that Secret Wars 2 was retconned to never having taken place (an idea I'm not a fan of because it retcons a lot), we might also assume that the Beyonder is still out there, gery curls and all.

If we presume the Inhuman thing was just him playing with them, then that means we have the most powerful being in marvel history (he even owned the Living Tribunal afterall, and he's above an IG wielder) out there.

But again, it's all open to interpreation... and that's the point. Bendis is leaving this vague. It's the next writer deciding to use the Beyonder who will cast the die one way or the other.

[Titanium]

It just bugged me that here is an issue of these canon events that happened in secret behind the scenes of the marvel universe we saw for years and one of them is a huge story like Secret Wars II was actually taking place inside an asteroid belt where the beyonder, an inhuman mutant, was just fooling around and events that we saw happen during the secret wars were actually happening on the asteroid belt.

That just bugs me, I felt like that could have been left out in favor of a better illuminati story unless it has a greater meaning down the road.

Mainly because all the other illuminati issues can at least be said to have been touched on. Marvel boy in runaways/young avengers and potentially in Captain marvel, the whole business with the skrulls, the idea that they have the infinity gems means the space stories like annihiliation can't just use them as plot devices at least.

[Madison Carter]

Secret Wars II happened. The Beyonder happened. Whether he truly is an Inhuman or not remains to be seen. He's definitely out there again; The Thanos series and Annihilation prologues made major note that Thanos wanted to make sure that the Beyonder's true form remained trapped within the mortal Maker body, and if that body was ever killed/destroyed, the full power of the Beyonder would be released again.

[JBeckett]

I love the Beyonder and was just glad to see him in the spotlight again. What can I say, Secret Wars got me started-other books hooked me but having everyone in one place fighting all the baddies-good stuff!

I did feel like the Illuminati story didn't change all that much except for the Beyonder's origin. It doesn't bother me if he's Inhuman. To me, that doesn't change what's come before. He may be the most powerful Inhuman there is, but why not?!?

[XPac]

I love the Beyonder and was just glad to see him in the spotlight again. What can I say, Secret Wars got me started-other books hooked me but having everyone in one place fighting all the baddies-good stuff!

I did feel like the Illuminati story didn't change all that much except for the Beyonder's origin. It doesn't bother me if he's Inhuman. To me, that doesn't change what's come before. He may be the most powerful Inhuman there is, but why not?!?

It potentially changes a few things though. If he's an Inhuman, then he's likely not an incomplete cosmic cube, so a few things definately need to be tweaked there.

And of course, there's the notion that Secret Wars 2 occured on some asteroid rather than in the actual MU.

But of course, because it's intentionally vague it's hard to really analyze anything, positively or negatively.

[Alan2099]

Bendis has said that this particular issue is open to interpretation... so you can view it as a retcon of Secret Wars 2, or you can look it as him just playing games with the Illuminati.

Since Bendis said it's open to interpretation, I'm assuming there won't be a follow up from him. Not exatly sure how that issue adds to the bigger picture with the skrulls though.

Meaning, "Look, I just wanted to tell the story. I don't know how it's supposed to fit either."

[Peeps]

It potentially changes a few things though. If he's an Inhuman, then he's likely not an incomplete cosmic cube, so a few things definately need to be tweaked there.

And of course, there's the notion that Secret Wars 2 occured on some asteroid rather than in the actual MU.

But of course, because it's intentionally vague it's hard to really analyze anything, positively or negatively.

who said that it took place on an asteroid,

i took it that the beyonder was seeing if he could recreate through his powers, what it means to have a purpose

[Will.S]

So what was the point in retconning out the Beyonder, Secret Wars II, and all that in Illuminati?

It just hit me that I totally forgot this in between all this skrull stuff and OMD. There has to be a bigger reason for turning the beyonder into an inhuman and then making it so Secret Wars II never really happened. So I'm wondering if there's been anything said about this out there.

Because out of all of the Illuminati issues, that one now seems the most pointless.
It ultimately hinges on what the next writer does with the Beyonder. If nothing is ever done with it then it ends up just pointlessly retconning Secret Wars II which did suck but again what was the point?

[DDM]

It ultimately hinges on what the next writer does with the Beyonder. If nothing is ever done with it then it ends up just pointlessly retconning Secret Wars II which did suck but again what was the point?

Although Secret Wars 2 was bad, the tie-in books are really quite good particularly Uncanny X-Men (Phoenix vs the Beyonder), The New Mutants (exorcises Illyana's darksoul & releases demons on Earth as Kitty learns of her link with Illyana as she gains Magik's armor & Soulsword; erased from existence then restored which leads to the kids becoming the White Queen's Hellions), The Mighty Thor (Kurse vs Thor, Beta Ray Bill & Power Pack; Kurse vs Hela, Kurse kills Malekith the Accursed as Balder), The Avengers (wants to join the Avengers; unwittingly sets Nebula free), Fantastic Four (restores Doctor Doom back to his original body), The New Defenders (augments Moondragon's psi powers which have already been augmented by the Dragon of the Moon), Doctor Strange (vs Doctor Strange)...

[JBeckett]

who said that it took place on an asteroid,

i took it that the beyonder was seeing if he could recreate through his powers, what it means to have a purpose

I felt the same. Nothing really made me rethink SW II but I'll have to reread the Illuminati issue because someone else mentioned it retconning the second Secret Wars story.

[XPac]

I felt the same. Nothing really made me rethink SW II but I'll have to reread the Illuminati issue because someone else mentioned it retconning the second Secret Wars story.

The point was that it was open to interpetation though. So at least till someone else decides to step up and write Beyonder, if you didn't intepret a retcon then there wasn't one. It didn't decisively retcon anything yet.

[JBeckett]

I agree totally X.