REAL hobgoblin VS REAL green goblin (aka norman osborn)

[spiderman_rj]

who would win ? im reading some old comics,and hob says he improved the strengh formula,so he should be stronger that old norman,or is he still stronger then thunderbolts norman ?

[The Confessor]

The original Green Goblin would definitely win I reckon. Even if he wasn't as strong as the Hobgoblin, he's crazy and very, very smart....that gives him the edge.

This thread might be better suited to the 'Rumbles' forum though.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

Norman. Hands down, 'Nuff said.

[XPac]

This probably should be moved to the Rumbles board.

Anyways... on paper I think Hobgoblin might have the advantage. I think he has better weapons, and his strength formula was suppossedly improved unless Norman has since improved his. Being insane can be as much of an advantage as a disadvantage so I'm not sure how that would factor in.

That said, Norman is the original and the bigger star. I'll wager he would win. I do believe they did fight in Marvel Adventures Spiderman a ways back.

[DeadXMan]

Norman cause he's OG, baby:cool:
(orginal goblin)

[ViciousX]

http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/SquanderedLegacy/KingsleyvsOsborn.html

[TF_loki]

Hobby. Norman's a loon. Hobby's a playa. Smarter, stronger, better. He's roadrunner, man. Meep meep, never been caught. All of Norman's best tricks since his resurrection he stole from Hobby. Can't wait for a Goblin War scenario...

[rocky123]

This probably should be moved to the Rumbles board.

Anyways... on paper I think Hobgoblin might have the advantage. I think he has better weapons, and his strength formula was suppossedly improved unless Norman has since improved his. Being insane can be as much of an advantage as a disadvantage so I'm not sure how that would factor in.

That said, Norman is the original and the bigger star. I'll wager he would win. I do believe they did fight in Marvel Adventures Spiderman a ways back.

Agreed 100%. Norman is THE goblin above the rest. Being the original and one of Spidey's greatest enemies I think gives him the nod. Regardless of strength and weapons upgrades Marvel would find a way to have Norman outsmart Hobby since he is very, very intelligent.

[rZi]

Norman is the genuine deal, his goblin side is one of the most twisted minds in the MU...he wouldn't let anything stop him.

[Joe Acro]

What's the line from the cartoon?

"There's only one true goblin. The Green Goblin!"

[TF_loki]

Norman is the genuine deal, his goblin side is one of the most twisted minds in the MU...he wouldn't let anything stop him.

Yeah.....except a Goblin Glider. ASS! (that's norman not the above quoted poster).

[Nefarius]

Original Hobgoblin.Norman is great,he's the original,he's one of the worst enemies of Spidey,but I prefer Roderick because:

1)Better costume

2)Better motive.I prefer a rational criminal than a crazy one

3)Better ending:LIving free in a Caribbean island with enough money to live for his rest of life.That's speak BADASS.

[Mister Mets]

They should have a real fight. Perhaps the Thunderbolts can be sent after Kingsley, or something. It'd be a nice way to bring back the Hobgoblin.

[spiderman_rj]

how did he escape,last i read,he was finaly revealed as hob and sent to prison by spider,with a little help from the purple guy who digs bestialism.

[Nefarius]

how did he escape,last i read,he was finaly revealed as hob and sent to prison by spider,with a little help from the purple guy who digs bestialism.

Read Spectacular Spiderman "Goblins at Gate".It's also the first time where the original GG met the original Hobgoblin.I also like that in this story both Goblins,more or less,win.So,noone leaves this story with damaged credibility.THe link that ViciousX post here will help you.

[bigDADDY6699]

well the green goblin cause he is my favorite spiderman villian and he could over power and out smart hobgoblin

[Just a Shadow]

i think this should be in the rumble forum.

[SnakeEater]

Hobby. Norman's a loon. Hobby's a playa. Smarter, stronger, better. He's roadrunner, man. Meep meep, never been caught. All of Norman's best tricks since his resurrection he stole from Hobby. Can't wait for a Goblin War scenario...

this happened already and norman said that kingsley was stronger then him. i dont recall why but norman got away only because of someone helping him

[Toku King]

Norman wins. Smarter, more skilled, quicker, more vicious, better weapons(Hobgoblin didn't have stuff like Whopper Bombs and Oxygen Bombs like ol' Norm did), has the Hulk factor going for him, and is overall more dangerous.

[Blight]

It's the original Hobgoblin folks plain and simple.

Why? Sure Norman created the formula.. And all that Goblin stuff. But Kingsley PERFECTED IT.

Funny how some forget Kingsley improves every Goblin gadget he wields, while Norman just keeps using the same old Goblin equipment.

The razor bats weren't as lethal if not for Kingsley's redesign. The finger blaster? From one blast to numerous rapid shots.

He made his glider more maneverable than Norman's (and still has). He even adds more rational defenses (electrified horns on his glider in case a certain wall crawler decides to try and latch the front of his glider).

Heck even shown in the recent issue of Spider-Girl, Kingsley wields another new Goblin toy.

Plus he's only been caught once (twice if you count MC2). Kingsley knows when to back off, wait, and strike when he's ready.

The one true Goblin? It isn't Green.. it is the HOBGOBLIN!!!

[666andahalf]

It's the original Hobgoblin folks plain and simple.

Why? Sure Norman created the formula.. And all that Goblin stuff. But Kingsley PERFECTED IT.

Funny how some forget Kingsley improves every Goblin gadget he wields, while Norman just keeps using the same old Goblin equipment.

The razor bats weren't as lethal if not for Kingsley's redesign. The finger blaster? From one blast to numerous rapid shots.

He made his glider more maneverable than Norman's (and still has). He even adds more rational defenses (electrified horns on his glider in case a certain wall crawler decides to try and latch the front of his glider).

Heck even shown in the recent issue of Spider-Girl, Kingsley wields another new Goblin toy.

Plus he's only been caught once (twice if you count MC2). Kingsley knows when to back off, wait, and strike when he's ready.

The one true Goblin? It isn't Green.. it is the HOBGOBLIN!!!

QFT!

There's always method to the Hobgoblin's "madness". Norman may be tricky and smart, but Kingsley will always have an ace up his sleeve. Just look at where they both are now. Norman is stuck being a government lackey while Kingsley is relaxing on the beaches of the Caribbean.

[DeadXMan]

QFT!

There's always method to the Hobgoblin's "madness". Norman may be tricky and smart, but Kingsley will always have an ace up his sleeve. Just look at where they both are now. Norman is stuck being a government lackey while Kingsley is relaxing on the beaches of the Caribbean.

sooo how is being in limbo better then being the head of an organization designed to hunt down and beat the crap out of heroes, better?

[666andahalf]

sooo how is being in limbo better then being the head of an organization designed to hunt down and beat the crap out of heroes, better?

You should read Spider-Girl. At least he's still in a Spider-Man related book.

[DeadXMan]

You should read Spider-Girl. At least he's still in a Spider-Man related book.

MC2 is dead to me.

616 to the grave.

[666andahalf]

MC2 is dead to me.

616 to the grave.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've actually found Amazing Spider-Girl to be more entertaining than Amazing Spider-Man. And that's not because of any hatred or bias against the new direction, but just general writing differences.

[RazorBats79]

It's the original Hobgoblin folks plain and simple.

Why? Sure Norman created the formula.. And all that Goblin stuff. But Kingsley PERFECTED IT.

Funny how some forget Kingsley improves every Goblin gadget he wields, while Norman just keeps using the same old Goblin equipment.

The razor bats weren't as lethal if not for Kingsley's redesign. The finger blaster? From one blast to numerous rapid shots.

He made his glider more maneverable than Norman's (and still has). He even adds more rational defenses (electrified horns on his glider in case a certain wall crawler decides to try and latch the front of his glider).

Heck even shown in the recent issue of Spider-Girl, Kingsley wields another new Goblin toy.

Plus he's only been caught once (twice if you count MC2). Kingsley knows when to back off, wait, and strike when he's ready.

The one true Goblin? It isn't Green.. it is the HOBGOBLIN!!!

Blight has some strong points. This is an A thread! I cant seem to deside myself, I will say that although Osborn was the first, sometimes someone can do what you do, but better.

[DeadXMan]

I'm sorry to hear that. I've actually found Amazing Spider-Girl to be more entertaining than Amazing Spider-Man. And that's not because of any hatred or bias against the new direction, but just general writing differences.

I had no problems with Spider-girl. but I'm talking about the the whole line

J2, anext and worse of all Wildthing( I will watch Elecerta again before I'll touch that book). not to mention it should of ended as with last planet standing. The numbers of ASG to SG are proof of that.

[666andahalf]

I had no problems with Spider-girl. but I'm talking about the the whole line.

J2, anext and worse of all Wildthing (I will watch Elecerta again before I'll touch that book). Not to mention it should of ended as with last planet standing.

Yeah, I could never get into the other MC2 characters... no one outside the Spider-Girl group really got my attention.

[DeadXMan]

J2 had potential but it really went nowhere

[Nefarius]

It's the original Hobgoblin folks plain and simple.

Why? Sure Norman created the formula.. And all that Goblin stuff. But Kingsley PERFECTED IT.

Funny how some forget Kingsley improves every Goblin gadget he wields, while Norman just keeps using the same old Goblin equipment.

The razor bats weren't as lethal if not for Kingsley's redesign. The finger blaster? From one blast to numerous rapid shots.

He made his glider more maneverable than Norman's (and still has). He even adds more rational defenses (electrified horns on his glider in case a certain wall crawler decides to try and latch the front of his glider).

Heck even shown in the recent issue of Spider-Girl, Kingsley wields another new Goblin toy.

Plus he's only been caught once (twice if you count MC2). Kingsley knows when to back off, wait, and strike when he's ready.

The one true Goblin? It isn't Green.. it is the HOBGOBLIN!!!


Amen to that.And don't forget,Hobby has a better costume.It's not enough for a character to be badass.He must look like one.:D

Norman is great,but Roddy is badass

[Blight]

Amen to that.And don't forget,Hobby has a better costume.It's not enough for a character to be badass.He must look like one.:D

Norman is great,but Roddy is badass

Yes, Norman has nothing on Roderick's style.

And to answer why one has been written left forgot for ten years and the other not. Maybe because they feel the only people that can write Roderick truly good is Stern or DeFalco.

Or you can blame Joey Q since he prefers Green more than Hob.

Either answer works.

[tv horror]

The real difference is that Norman does not need the Goblin costume to be evil, he has always shown that he is one of the major Marvel super-villains. Like the Sherlock Holmes arch-enemy Moriarty,he is content to work in the background and relish the result of his labors.

[brundlefly]

The real difference is that Norman does not need the Goblin costume to be evil, he has always shown that he is one of the major Marvel super-villains. Like the Sherlock Holmes arch-enemy Moriarty,he is content to work in the background and relish the result of his labors.

Eh, that's only since Norman was jarringly made-over after his hokey resurrection into an attempted Marvel analogue to Lex Luthor. He was hardly a calculating, string-pulling puppetmaster during his classic GG heyday in the 60s and 70s. Frankly, they gave Norman Hobby's approach to supervillainy (cool and methodical planner) when he returned and chucked his original MO (deranged but cunning lunatic). The only thing that stayed the same was his tendency to stalk and torment Peter as opposed to outright killing him. Kingsley, on the other hand, would have no qualms about using the knowledge of Pete's secret ID to have him killed in a straightforward and practical manner instead of toying with him. That was what was so suspenseful about the initial "Hobby has the Osborn Journals, which might contain Pete's ID" subplot, since Kingsley would be more ruthlessly practical in his usage of that information. That's why I think Kingsley has the edge in a versus-battle with Norman's original incarnation (the "real" green goblin, if you will). While they're almost equal in terms of powers and weapons, Kingsley has cool logic and forward-thinking calculation on his side against Norman's inspired lunacy.

[ViciousX]

Eh, that's only since Norman was jarringly made-over after his hokey resurrection into an attempted Marvel analogue to Lex Luthor.

Um... Norman Osborn was a corrupt businessman back in the 1960s. Hell, the first time we see him, we know that he illegally shoved Mendel Stromm out, stole his inventions, and tried to have him killed. Then decided Spider-Man had to be eliminated.

What was Lex Luthor doing in the same era? http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/GreenwithEvil/NormansReturn5.jpg

If anything, Norman was a little ahead of his time. It wasn't until the 80s, the Decade of Greed, that suits and corporate CEOs started becoming viable supervillains

Remember your comic book history.

[tv horror]

It was not all fun and games fighting Spidey he also had designs ruling the criminal empire's run by the Kingpin and such. As for the Hobgoblin you are right in the point that he is ruthless and cunning yet if Pete's I.D was in the journals then why did he not kill M.J when she worked for him as a model. This was about the time that M.J had a stalker, yet another reason why he was unaware of Spidey's I.D. Also the Hobgoblin needed a partner running the mob while Norman only had himself in the top job, Ah Hell I love the Green goblin character.

[666andahalf]

It was not all fun and games fighting Spidey he also had designs ruling the criminal empire's run by the Kingpin and such. As for the Hobgoblin you are right in the point that he is ruthless and cunning yet if Pete's I.D was in the journals then why did he not kill M.J when she worked for him as a model. This was about the time that M.J had a stalker, yet another reason why he was unaware of Spidey's I.D. Also the Hobgoblin needed a partner running the mob while Norman only had himself in the top job, Ah Hell I love the Green goblin character.

A little clarification is in order. First, Pete's identity was never in the journals. That notion was all just suspense and tension for the stories and proved to be false. I don't think MJ had her first stalker until the '90s, long after she left Kingsley Ltd. and about the whole Rose situation, Hobby was a bit inexperienced with the workings of the mob, so having the Rose around gave him someone to learn from. Plus, Hobby was just using him and was going to betray him once he got what he wanted (and vice-versa). Not to mention the Green Goblin also had a partner when he went after the Mob in the form of the Crime Master. With the exception of that storyline, Osborn never directly went after the mob directly, focusing mostly on destroying Spider-Man.

[Blight]

A little clarification is in order. First, Pete's identity was never in the journals. That notion was all just suspense and tension for the stories and proved to be false. I don't think MJ had her first stalker until the '90s, long after she left Kingsley Ltd. and about the whole Rose situation, Hobby was a bit inexperienced with the workings of the mob, so having the Rose around gave him someone to learn from. Plus, Hobby was just using him and was going to betray him once he got what he wanted (and vice-versa). Not to mention the Green Goblin also had a partner when he went after the Mob in the form of the Crime Master. With the exception of that storyline, Osborn never directly went after the mob directly, focusing mostly on destroying Spider-Man.


Actually it might have.. at the time of Amazing Spidey #250, Kingsley had read up to the point when he updated Norman's gas that negated Pete's spidey sense. The journal which he had gotten the gas had ended there and Kingsley was looking forward to finding out if Norman did find out who was Spider-Man.

Alas, Kingsley never got that chance to continue reading the remaining journals since they where destroyed in his epic clash with Spidey in the same issue.

[DeadXMan]

yes Hobby may be a bad ass But Gobby acknowledges his peeps in his vogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uMwUsa834
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgLd26dxDRg

and he pawns Luther

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnHHDzQ4Axw

[Toku King]

this happened already and norman said that kingsley was stronger then him. i dont recall why but norman got away only because of someone helping him

That was Harry, not Norman. Harry confronted Hobgoblin, and was losing until Spider-Man came. Then He realized that his(temporary) sanity was the key to winning, and took out the Hobgoblin. But then Hobgoblin distracted him and Spidey, and got away.

[Toku King]

QFT!

There's always method to the Hobgoblin's "madness". Norman may be tricky and smart, but Kingsley will always have an ace up his sleeve. Just look at where they both are now. Norman is stuck being a government lackey while Kingsley is relaxing on the beaches of the Caribbean.

But that's because Hobby quit years before Civil War. GG had the nuts to say "screw you" to the freakin' government.

[Blight]

That was Harry, not Norman. Harry confronted Hobgoblin, and was losing until Spider-Man came. Then He realized that his(temporary) sanity was the key to winning, and took out the Hobgoblin. But then Hobgoblin distracted him and Spidey, and got away.


That was Macendale though not Roderick whom Harry fought.

[Toku King]

That was Macendale though not Roderick.

Good catch. ;)

[666andahalf]

But that's because Hobby quit years before Civil War. GG had the nuts to say "screw you" to the freakin' government.

I don't think it was like that at all. Didn't Tony implant a chip or nanobots to force Osborn to run the Thunderbolts for him? As far as I remember, Osborn is Tony's lackey and therefore a lackey for the Government. Yes, he's still extremely important to them in running the group, but in no way was there a "screw you, I'm running the Thunderbolts!".

[pc999]

I think that circunstances would dictate whos win.

They really should be on par en terms of power, weapons and even inteligence (meybe on diferent aspects), so things like luck, a betterbatlefield for one or the others, if they are expectig or not to fight, should be determinat to the winner.

[Monty_Cristo]

it's close but i think Norman takes this. it's like comparing a hand model (Norman) to runway model (Kingsley). their just an entirely different breed.

[Toku King]

I don't think it was like that at all. Didn't Tony implant a chip or nanobots to force Osborn to run the Thunderbolts for him? As far as I remember, Osborn is Tony's lackey and therefore a lackey for the Government. Yes, he's still extremely important to them in running the group, but in no way was there a "screw you, I'm running the Thunderbolts!".

So getting into costume and fighting Stark's elite isn't saying "screw you"?
Yeah, he got caught, but it sure as hell wasn't easy.

[666andahalf]

So getting into costume and fighting Stark's elite isn't saying "screw you"?
Yeah, he got caught, but it sure as hell wasn't easy.

Pretty much everyone that was against the government said "screw you" to them. Kingsley just would have been smart and tactical about it.

[marvelfan06]

As I see it, original Green Goblin vs. Hobgoblin is bassically smarter and more ruthlessly cunning vs. stronger and better equipped. (Although both of them are still formidable in the categories they're outdone in.) As far as how deadly their schemes are with these abilities, it probably goes to Green Goblin. But as for how good they are in a head on fight, I'm not sure. It seems pretty even to me.

[Blight]

Not really Marvel fan.. Hobgoblin's equipment has always been more upgraded while Norman's been using the same old tricks.

[DeadXMan]

you mean killing Pete's daughter, baning his ex-girlfriend then killing her, kidnapping his aunt and financing all the clones are old tricks

[Mister Mets]

you mean killing Pete's daughter, baning his ex-girlfriend then killing her, kidnapping his aunt and financing all the clones are old tricksI think he's referencing Osborn's weapons rather than anything else.

[Blight]

I think he's referencing Osborn's weapons rather than anything else.

Exactly..

But if we're going for plans. Let's see.. fooling the world save for one that you're dead, trying to make millions off blackmailing fellow businessmen, staging a fight to lose so you can make the world think the person who called you out was actually one in the same, then making the entire world think you where an entire other person while in fact the person was nothing more than a dupe himself leading to emotional ruin of a marriage and then throw dupe like garbage just because you where bored.

Then return kill idiotic successor to your role with ease in a maximum secruity prison, engineer a hostal takeover while removing of various pests, think of the past as nothing more than business when talking to victims of past crimes, and only be beaten thanks to idiocy of your own flesh and blood.

Then plot escape by making the person who hates you the most break you out when they think you got evidence against them. And just in case if ever double crossed have enough money on the side to enjoy the life of luxary away from all your enemies in nice retirement in the Bahamas.

Considering one's being blackmailed and drugged into working for the government with really no power over your previous company and finally reviled for the deeds you did while the other is still rich, powerful, enjoying his freedom, and is still publically known as said criminal but nobody has brought to justice. Who really has the edge there?

[DeadXMan]

the one that is the spokesperson of the most popular team that is a designed to hunt down and "remove" unregistered-heroes and is about to get Mid-evil on Swordsman's insubordinate, neo nazi ass.

[Blight]

the one that is the spokesperson of the most popular team that is a designed to hunt down and "remove" unregistered-heroes and is about to get Mid-evil on Swordsman's insubordinate, neo nazi ass.

And the moment he does something against his bosses he's pumpkined bombed. The one that's free and having the life is the one I choose.

[brundlefly]

The one that's free and having the life is the one I choose.

That's my favorite thing about Kingsley being stuck in so-called 'character limbo' (AKA comfortably retired in a tropical paradise). He's the rare villain who "got away with it" and was never made to pay for all his schemes and crimes. :D I fear that if he comes back, he'll just end up in jail or be gratuitously killed off, so part of me wants him to stay in his luxurious "retirement" since that's such a fitting end for his pragmatic character's storyarc. Unlike the other Spidey-obsessed loonies in Pete's rogues gallery (read: Norman, Venom, etc.), Kingsley's got no personal beef with Spidey and he certainly doesn't need the money, so he's got no real incentive to put the Goblin mask back on and leave the beach just to provide Spidey with another sparring partner. Leave filling that void to some other glutton for punishment, like the latest Goblin-pretender, Menace.

[DeadXMan]

And the moment he does something against his bosses he's pumpkined bombed. The one that's free and having the life is the one I choose.

that just it the thunder bolts are not under Shield authority
Norman is his own boss.

[Blight]

that just it the thunder bolts are not under Shield authority
Norman is his own boss.

Um.. Penance mini show's otherwise.

That's my favorite thing about Kingsley being stuck in so-called 'character limbo' (AKA comfortably retired in a tropical paradise). He's the rare villain who "got away with it" and was never made to pay for all his schemes and crimes. :D I fear that if he comes back, he'll just end up in jail or be gratuitously killed off, so part of me wants him to stay in his luxurious "retirement" since that's such a fitting end for his pragmatic character's storyarc. Unlike the other Spidey-obsessed loonies in Pete's rogues gallery (read: Norman, Venom, etc.), Kingsley's got no personal beef with Spidey and he certainly doesn't need the money, so he's got no real incentive to put the Goblin mask back on and leave the beach just to provide Spidey with another sparring partner. Leave filling that void to some other glutton for punishment, like the latest Goblin-pretender, Menace.


Yeah true.. but I still could see him coming back for revenge against Norman and simply be bored. Then hearing that someone did what he couldn't. Well he want to get this pretender called the Hood and show him how someone truly conducts business.

[DeadXMan]

a possible first strike from the US due to a mentally deranged person stealing the launch codes, tends to let Shield have the final say.