FIRST LOOKS: "Annhilation: Conquest" #4 + "The Twelve" #2

[andy khouri]

Courtesy of Marvel, CBR brings you exclusive first looks at pages from next week's "Annihilation: Conquest" #4 and "The Twelve" #2.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12857

[DaeJi]

Well, nice to know that Starlord and gang have held onto that oh so successful lucky streak. And Quasar seems to be taking things well. Can't wait.

[Arilou]

I'm still sad Blue Blade was the one to die. He's awesome even when dead!

[CMBMOOL]

Wow, and I thought that they were going to avoid Quasar's love life within this mini series. :(

Well let hope that Heather's death will make her a stronger heroine. :p

[JoshuaCee]

Man, that Raney art is some ugly stuff. The Weston art from The Twelve #2, on the other hand, is gorgeous. That book just might shape up to the book of 2008.

[Somebody]

Did anyone else burst out laughing at "You blew up a star"/"It was the only way to be sure"?

[JoshuaCee]

I didn't. :(

[mightiness]

I happen to really like Tom Raney's art. I think he has a unique style and really works well on this title. But that is not to say I don't enjoy Chris Weston. His art is truly fantastic. I am so far enjoying the Twelve quite a bit.

[Brother Zag]

Man, that Raney art is some ugly stuff. The Weston art from The Twelve #2, on the other hand, is gorgeous. That book just might shape up to the book of 2008.


Eye of the beholder buddy on the Annihilation art. I'm loving Raney's work here!!

But I will agree with you that Chris Weston's work on the Twelve is pretty amazing...

[Brother Zag]

Did anyone else burst out laughing at "You blew up a star"/"It was the only way to be sure"?

I chuckled... very High Evolutionary!

[JoshuaCee]

I happen to really like Tom Raney's art. I think he has a unique style and really works well on this title. But that is not to say I don't enjoy Chris Weston. His art is truly fantastic. I am so far enjoying the Twelve quite a bit.

Eye of the beholder buddy on the Annihilation art. I'm loving Raney's work here!!

But I will agree with you that Chris Weston's work on the Twelve is pretty amazing...

I thought Raney's art was decent during the first issue, but it's gone downhill from there. My main problem with him is that his proportions are so inconsistent; so much so that it's distracting.

[Expletive Deleted]

Man, that Raney art is some ugly stuff.I don't mind the pencils, but the coloring really bothers me.

[drwho]

The colors on conquest look too pastellish. girly colors.

[Brother Zag]

I thought Raney's art was decent during the first issue, but it's gone downhill from there. My main problem with him is that his proportions are so inconsistent; so much so that it's distracting.

No more distracting for me than some of Kirby's work. Weston's work is certainly more "realistic" but I think that's the point of having him do "The Twelve". I'm not looking for photorealism from Raney in Annihilation, I guess.

I have found the coloring a little jarring and sometimes a tad garish on previews on-line, but have like the reproduction in the books themselves. Kinda the opposite of Ultimates 3 #1.

Maybe that's the Achilles Heel of the digital/hard copy debate... what looks good in print is not necessarily what looks good on your screen?

[JoshuaCee]

I don't mind the pencils, but the coloring really bothers me.

The colors on conquest look too pastellish. girly colors.

Yeah, D'Armata's colors are hit or miss with me. Most of the time, I could do without them, but they look so good over Epting's artwork.

No more distracting for me than some of Kirby's work.

Blasphemy! :mad:

Maybe that's the Achilles Heel of the digital/hard copy debate... what looks good in print is not necessarily what looks good on your screen?

Yeah, I hear that Chris Lichtner damn near had a heart attack when he saw the hard copies of Ultimates 3 #1.

[HeckBoy]

Annihilation's starting to bore me a bit. Can't say I'm surprised. I normally stay away from Marvel's cosmic stuff, and it's a wonder I've read so much as it is. But I think after this is done, I'm going to discontinue any further cosmic stuff for awhile, it's just not my cup of tea. The Twelve on the other hand, has definitely drawn me in. I wasn't sure about it at first, but so far it's been good. Despite their camp and general hokey-ness, I've always been drawn to Golden Age characters, and it's nice to see Marvel finally doing something with their own.

[DaeJi]

I don't like Raney's Rocket, but other than that I don't mind his art. And yeah, I liked the "You blew up a star" line, and I love how casual HE is about it.

[JoshuaCee]

Annihilation's starting to bore me a bit. Can't say I'm surprised. I normally stay away from Marvel's cosmic stuff, and it's a wonder I've read so much as it is. But I think after this is done, I'm going to discontinue any further cosmic stuff for awhile, it's just not my cup of tea.

I think the biggest disappointment that I'm having with it, is that it's just not near as good as Annihilation was at this point. I love DnA as much as the next guy, but Giffen is much better suited for this kind of story.

[XPac]

I think the biggest disappointment that I'm having with it, is that it's just not near as good as Annihilation was at this point. I love DnA as much as the next guy, but Giffen is much better suited for this kind of story.

That's the thing... the biggest components of the first Annihilation (the writer and the editor) left the company before the second one. I guess a lot of people just assumed the second would be as good just because the world "Annihilation" was printed at the top.

[Enigmanaut]

Did anyone else burst out laughing at "You blew up a star"/"It was the only way to be sure"?

Nah, I just flashed on Colonel Sam Carter when she said "I swear, you blow up one sun and everyone expects you to start walking on water."

[JoshuaCee]

That's the thing... the biggest components of the first Annihilation (the writer and the editor) left the company before the second one. I guess a lot of people just assumed the second would be as good just because the world "Annihilation" was printed at the top.

Well to be fair, we had every reason to believe it would as good. DnA aren't slouches when it comes to cosmic space operas. Just look at their LoSH run and their current Nova run. Annihilation Conquest just seems to be lacking something that Annihilation had. I think it may be a sense of camaraderie. In Giffen's story, Richie and Pete were in it together. Throw in Gamora, Ronan, Kl'rt and the rest, and everyone seemed to legitimately have each other's back. This time around, it's like the heroes hate each other almost as much as they hate the Phalanx. All of them except Pete and his bunch. Come to think of it, that Star-Lord mini was written by Giffen, too. Huh. He's got a knack for throwing mismatched characters into a story and making it stick. I don't think that's one of DnA's strong suits.

[XPac]

Well to be fair, we had every reason to believe it would as good. DnA aren't slouches when it comes to cosmic space operas. Just look at their LoSH run and their current Nova run. Annihilation Conquest just seems to be lacking something that Annihilation had. I think it may be a sense of camaraderie. In Giffen's story, Richie and Pete were in it together. Throw in Gamora, Ronan, Kl'rt and the rest, and everyone seemed to legitimately have each other's back. This time around, it's like the heroes hate each other almost as much as they hate the Phalanx. All of them except Pete and his bunch. Come to think of it, that Star-Lord mini was written by Giffen, too. Huh. He's got a knack for throwing mismatched characters into a story and making it stick. I don't think that's one of DnA's strong suits.

Yeah... the Starllord part of the story was DEFINATELY the best part of the equation. I kind of wish that was the whole event.

[Brother Zag]

That's the thing... the biggest components of the first Annihilation (the writer and the editor) left the company before the second one. I guess a lot of people just assumed the second would be as good just because the world "Annihilation" was printed at the top.


I don't think anyone "assumed" anything, judging by these boards! (I for one am still disappointed to have to share a forum to talk Annihilation here, BTW. Just saying...). Plenty of critical readers here (and elsewhere on the tubes), and no one bashful about sharing their opinion :rolleyes: !

I'm still enjoying this story. Admittedly, I'm hoping for one of those "Oh Wow" moments when suddenly everything clicks... you look back over the books and everything kind of clicks into place. Foreshadowing becomes evident, hopefully remarkable in its subtlety at this point... so I'm still reserving my judgment until Annihilation : Conquest is over and done. I'm not looking for reasons to be disappointed. I think this is still some of the best cosmic comic book storytelling ever. E-V-E-R. I like the old stuff, but Giffen definitely raised the bar. Starlin set the bar... but even he didn't always reach the heights. Giffen literally picked up where Starlin left off, starting in Thanos, followed by Drax and then writ it large as Annihilation. Fantastic! I wish he was still writing for Marvel, but DC was smart and snapped him up. So we get Abnett and Lanning. I've been impressed by DnA. They have an ability to write cosmic without writing cliche. Nova has been great. I just read their New Gods arc in Superman Confidential and that was entertaining and true to characters, Kirby and continuity. I think they're proving they have a right to play in the cosmic sandbox. They're great writers. Thanks to DnA, Giffen, Starlin and others, we're getting some of the best cosmic comic book stories ever right now and in the recent past. As a reader, I couldn't be happier. As a writer, I find it inspiring!

I recently read the "Galactic Storm" TPBs, and while it was enjoyable, I think Annihilation and Conquest both exceed it in quality in storytelling and art. Gruenwald's parts were good. But otherwise, a lot of the dialogue was pure Avengers Bitchfest, everybody acting cranky and bitchin' at everyone else. I'd weigh any of Giffen's scenes between Quill and Nova in Annihilation against all of it!

[agrich]

That's the thing... the biggest components of the first Annihilation (the writer and the editor) left the company before the second one.

I didn't know Giffen had left Marvel. Bad terms? Gone for good? Too bad if so....

[XPac]

I didn't know Giffen had left Marvel. Bad terms? Gone for good? Too bad if so....

WHoops... I actually don't know if Giffen left. I shouldn't have looped him in there with Andy. My bad.

[XPac]

I don't think anyone "assumed" anything, judging by these boards! (I for one am still disappointed to have to share a forum to talk Annihilation here, BTW. Just saying...). Plenty of critical readers here (and elsewhere on the tubes), and no one bashful about sharing their opinion :rolleyes: !

I'm still enjoying this story. Admittedly, I'm hoping for one of those "Oh Wow" moments when suddenly everything clicks... you look back over the books and everything kind of clicks into place. Foreshadowing becomes evident, hopefully remarkable in its subtlety at this point... so I'm still reserving my judgment until Annihilation : Conquest is over and done. I'm not looking for reasons to be disappointed. I think this is still some of the best cosmic comic book storytelling ever. E-V-E-R. I like the old stuff, but Giffen definitely raised the bar. Starlin set the bar... but even he didn't always reach the heights. Giffen literally picked up where Starlin left off, starting in Thanos, followed by Drax and then writ it large as Annihilation. Fantastic! I wish he was still writing for Marvel, but DC was smart and snapped him up. So we get Abnett and Lanning. I've been impressed by DnA. They have an ability to write cosmic without writing cliche. Nova has been great. I just read their New Gods arc in Superman Confidential and that was entertaining and true to characters, Kirby and continuity. I think they're proving they have a right to play in the cosmic sandbox. They're great writers. Thanks to DnA, Giffen, Starlin and others, we're getting some of the best cosmic comic book stories ever right now and in the recent past. As a reader, I couldn't be happier. As a writer, I find it inspiring!

I recently read the "Galactic Storm" TPBs, and while it was enjoyable, I think Annihilation and Conquest both exceed it in quality in storytelling and art. Gruenwald's parts were good. But otherwise, a lot of the dialogue was pure Avengers Bitchfest, everybody acting cranky and bitchin' at everyone else. I'd weigh any of Giffen's scenes between Quill and Nova in Annihilation against all of it!

I certainly think Annihilation blows Galactic Storm out of the water. I still think a lot of Starlin's stuff however still tops my list of the greatest cosmic epics ever. But I guess it's all subjective.

As for the notion of people making assumptions... I don't know. I get the vibe that a lot of people are a big disappointed so far. But I suppose I shouldn't make generalizations like that.

[StoneGold]

WHoops... I actually don't know if Giffen left. I shouldn't have looped him in there with Andy. My bad.

Giffen is gone, too. DC exclusive. And from what I heard, no, just DC offered to pay health insurance.

[CaptainCanada]

I seriously doubt Moondragon will stay dead, given all the magic weirdness surrounding her body; if she is, though, it's annoying, given how few gay characters and even fewer couples Marvel has.

[Will.S]

I certainly think Annihilation blows Galactic Storm out of the water. I still think a lot of Starlin's stuff however still tops my list of the greatest cosmic epics ever. But I guess it's all subjective.
I'd say:

Annihilation = Infinity Gauntlet > Galactic Storm > Annihilation Conquest

It may change but so far I'd rate it like that.

And as far as this preview goes, I really like Ultron's voice and Adam Warlock has a pretty unique energy based power and light signature more equivalent to Quasar with some of the constructs I've seen him make. Still I hope to see the Guardians of the Galaxy soon and Adam in a less whinier mood with cooler costume in tow. I also liked seeing more Star Lord and his gang in the preview although I hate the way Tom draws Rocket Raccoon, Timothy Green draws a much more animal like and endearing looking Rocket Raccoon.

[freddy1428]

In my opinion, Annilation conquest is the best cosmic story just after Annihilation, Infinity gauntlet and Infinity War, I really like the new Warlock, he is so strange, I really love phyla, before I don't care about Quasar, now she is simply one fo my favorite character.
For me Annihilation conquest is better that cosmos in collision, I read that and I find that very lame, despite I love Gruenwald previous works, I don't like his Quasar. It's also in my opinion better that Sinestro War, a good comics but not equal of Conquest, a big thanks for Giffen and Abnett and Lanning for to give a new life for cosmic characters. In my opinion the new Drax, the new Gamora, Nova, Quasar (phyla) are better that before.

[JoshuaCee]

Yeah... the Starllord part of the story was DEFINATELY the best part of the equation. I kind of wish that was the whole event.

I was really hoping for an eventual ongoing series. Peter, Rocket, Gabe, Groot, Mantis and Bug are too good of a team to just let stumble into obscurity.

[XPac]

In my opinion, Annilation conquest is the best cosmic story just after Annihilation, Infinity gauntlet and Infinity War, I really like the new Warlock, he is so strange, I really love phyla, before I don't care about Quasar, now she is simply one fo my favorite character.
For me Annihilation conquest is better that cosmos in collision, I read that and I find that very lame, despite I love Gruenwald previous works, I don't like his Quasar. It's also in my opinion better that Sinestro War, a good comics but not equal of Conquest, a big thanks for Giffen and Abnett and Lanning for to give a new life for cosmic characters. In my opinion the new Drax, the new Gamora, Nova, Quasar (phyla) are better that before.

Well, I suppose all this is subjective but I honestly think Sinestro Corps at least so far is blowing Conquest away. And quite frankly it's the best thing DC has put out in a long long time.

Sinestro Corps had the same vibe the first Annihilation had... big name characters in a big epic story with huge stakes. That to me is how a cosmic event should really be done. Conquest just seems smaller and quieter on multiple levels.

[Blader5489]

I was really hoping for an eventual ongoing series. Peter, Rocket, Gabe, Groot, Mantis and Bug are too good of a team to just let stumble into obscurity.

Hence the new Guardians of the Galaxy book.

[XPac]

Hence the new Guardians of the Galaxy book.

We'll see... I don't think we actually know who the Guardians will be, or who even dies in Conquest. A couple of those guys on the list might make good candidates if the writers decide they want a few deaths to give Conquest greater impact.

[DaeJi]

Sinestro Corps had the same vibe the first Annihilation had... big name characters in a big epic story with huge stakes. That to me is how a cosmic event should really be done. Conquest just seems smaller and quieter on multiple levels.

I think this is one of the main reasons why people are enjoying Conquest than other cosmic events. Everything else is always a war or a crusade or something like that; in Conquest, the bad guy won at the start, and now we are getting the resistance.

[Rock It Raccoon]

Did anyone else burst out laughing at "You blew up a star"/"It was the only way to be sure"?

no, but the line "well... i am groot" got me for sure.

having not read annihilation i can't compare the two, so i am really enjoying this book. i said it in the AC #3 thread, but i think raney's art here is better than i've ever seen it... not exactly mindblowing stuff but at least he's putting in a solid effort. i think blastaar is one of the few characters he can draw really really well, but i totally agree that rocket raccoon looks... just ugh.

all in all i've got very little to be disappointed about so far: solid action, likeable characters, slim odds for our heroes...

[wallred]

In my opinion, Annilation conquest is the best cosmic story just after Annihilation, Infinity gauntlet and Infinity War, I really like the new Warlock, he is so strange, I really love phyla, before I don't care about Quasar, now she is simply one fo my favorite character.
For me Annihilation conquest is better that cosmos in collision, I read that and I find that very lame, despite I love Gruenwald previous works, I don't like his Quasar. It's also in my opinion better that Sinestro War, a good comics but not equal of Conquest, a big thanks for Giffen and Abnett and Lanning for to give a new life for cosmic characters. In my opinion the new Drax, the new Gamora, Nova, Quasar (phyla) are better that before.

I realize Annihilation gets a lot of love, but there are still problems with it. Years later there are still too many unanswered questions for a self-contained mini-series. Of course, that's not to say that Starlin's epics are perfect either. The biggest problem I have with them is how Starlin promotes Adam Warlock and Thanos at the expense of all other characters. Infinity Gauntlet was a pretty good story...Infinity War, not as good...and Infinity Crusade, not really that good at all. Sinestro Corps is a lot better than Annihilation: Conquest in my opinion from not only structurally, but in execution. Also, I don't really think it's quite fair to compare Cosmos In Collision (a self-contained story) to Infinity Gauntlet or Annihilation (sweeping events involving multiple titles). Cosmos In Collision told an epic story in 7 issues that was the natural extension of stories that Gru had been telling. I think it stands far better as a unit than either Annihilation (so far...Conquest hasn't impressed me) or the various Infinity sagas. Sinestro Corps War has an internal consistency that I think puts it above any of Marvel's cosmic crossovers...with the exception of Thanos Quest which I think is a really strong story. However, Thanos moves from protagonist in Thanos Quest to antagonist in Infinity Gauntlet, and I think this confuses and dilutes Infinity Gauntlet to some degree. Plus, you have the Aladdin's Lamp syndrome where bad things are wished for which means that readers just start waiting for everything to be wished back.
Conquest has suffered from a decompressed style in that nothing has really happened yet. They've only just found out that Ultron is in charge and had an initial skirmish with him. And, if you count Nova, then we're really what 17 issues into this thing. Nova's issues have actually advanced his story, but big stuff only happened in the Prologue.

[agrich]

Of course, that's not to say that Starlin's epics are perfect either. The biggest problem I have with them is how Starlin promotes Adam Warlock and Thanos at the expense of all other characters. Infinity Gauntlet was a pretty good story...Infinity War, not as good...and Infinity Crusade, not really that good at all.

I just want to mention that according to an interview I read, Starlin originally planned on telling the Infinity War and Crusade stories within the pages of the Warlock and the Infinity Watch series. For that reason, it made sense that Warlock was the star (not to mention, the villains were of course part of his own psyche), and his supporting cast, including Thanos, figured prominently. Neither was intended as just a random cosmic event; originally, they were Warlock stories. And Marvel, due no doubt to the success of Gauntlet, wanted to do them as big summer crossover events.

Infinity Gauntlet, to me, was basically perfect. (And although it "involved multiple titles," only the stuff leading up to it -- Thanos Quest and a few issues of Silver Surfer -- were required reading.) And I think in a lot of ways Thanos was still the protagonist; of course, you weren't necessarily rooting for him anymore. I liked War a lot, but Crusade definitely suffered from a going to the well once too often situation, plus it just looked rushed and moreover wasn't particularly good. That's the only one of those I never read again.

[wallred]

I just want to mention that according to an interview I read, Starlin originally planned on telling the Infinity War and Crusade stories within the pages of the Warlock and the Infinity Watch series. For that reason, it made sense that Warlock was the star (not to mention, the villains were of course part of his own psyche), and his supporting cast, including Thanos, figured prominently. Neither was intended as just a random cosmic event; originally, they were Warlock stories. And Marvel, due no doubt to the success of Gauntlet, wanted to do them as big summer crossover events.

Infinity Gauntlet, to me, was basically perfect. (And although it "involved multiple titles," only the stuff leading up to it -- Thanos Quest and a few issues of Silver Surfer -- were required reading.) And I think in a lot of ways Thanos was still the protagonist; of course, you weren't necessarily rooting for him anymore. I liked War a lot, but Crusade definitely suffered from a going to the well once too often situation, plus it just looked rushed and moreover wasn't particularly good. That's the only one of those I never read again.

With half of the population of the Universe being offed, I think it really hurt the suspension of disbelief. There was no way that the events of Infinity Gauntlet weren't going to be just wished away. That's something about Starlin that I've become annoyed with, too. The next time we saw Thanos, he got something more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet which was supposed to be the most powerful item in existence. Past a certain point, it just gets a little silly. Thanos only losing because he (subconsciously) wanted to lose, not because he actually got beaten is a bit annoying, too. Nihilism, too is a bit limited of a theme to explore over and over.
I still think Cosmos In Collision and Sinestro Corps War are tops. I just don't see a better cosmic tale from Marvel than Cosmos. My opinion, of course. That's not to say I don't like Infinity Gauntlet, because I really do.
I also like Annihilation, warts and all, but Conquest just hasn't impressed me yet. I hope it does, but it's only got 3 issues left to do it.

[Will.S]

Sinestro Corps is a lot better than Annihilation: Conquest in my opinion from not only structurally, but in execution.
While I agree with you here......

Sinestro Corps War has an internal consistency that I think puts it above any of Marvel's cosmic crossovers...with the exception of Thanos Quest which I think is a really strong story.
I can't say I agree with this.

Sinestro Corps War indeed had a great internal consistency but it was only because it was 2 titles with a special here and there. Annihilation had more books to keep track of on top of the Annihilation mini series itself:

Annihilation: Prologue
Nova #1-4
Silver Surfer #1-4
Ronan #1-4
Super Skrull #1-4
Annihilation #1-6
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus 1 & 2

VS

Sinestro Corps War Special
Green Lantern #21-25
Green Lantern Corps #14-19
Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Cyborg Superman, Superman Prime, Parallax, Ion

25 Annihilation titles to Green Lanterns 16. I actually though Green Lantern's first outing as cosmic war with Sinestro and the first Annihilation are the strongest out of the gate from both Marvel and DC. I also think both the Annihilation books and the Green Lantern books plan on doing trilogy's or multiple installments of their own wars so maybe they'll read better as a whole as well.

[agrich]

That's something about Starlin that I've become annoyed with, too. The next time we saw Thanos, he got something more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet which was supposed to be the most powerful item in existence. Past a certain point, it just gets a little silly. Thanos only losing because he (subconsciously) wanted to lose, not because he actually got beaten is a bit annoying, too. Nihilism, too is a bit limited of a theme to explore over and over.

Well, if you want to complain about "Marvel Universe: The End," that's fine, but it doesn't have anything to do with Infinity Gauntlet. I'd certainly agree that (as I said) the guy went to the same well a little too often at times.

Thanos losing only because he subconsciously wanted to lose was Warlock's theory/insight during Infinity Gauntlet, but it's not like it cropped up over and over again in future series. In The End, he "won" -- only to discover the win was really a loss. It wasn't a plot point in either the Thanos series or "Annihilation." (Although I tend to think he wanted Drax to kill him, but not "subconsciously.")

I'm wondering - are some of your negative feelings regarding Thanos and Starlin influenced by the way Thanos used and abused your hero Quasar during Infinity War? :) Just a guess.

[freddy1428]

I realize Annihilation gets a lot of love, but there are still problems with it. Years later there are still too many unanswered questions for a self-contained mini-series. Of course, that's not to say that Starlin's epics are perfect either. The biggest problem I have with them is how Starlin promotes Adam Warlock and Thanos at the expense of all other characters. Infinity Gauntlet was a pretty good story...Infinity War, not as good...and Infinity Crusade, not really that good at all. Sinestro Corps is a lot better than Annihilation: Conquest in my opinion from not only structurally, but in execution. Also, I don't really think it's quite fair to compare Cosmos In Collision (a self-contained story) to Infinity Gauntlet or Annihilation (sweeping events involving multiple titles). Cosmos In Collision told an epic story in 7 issues that was the natural extension of stories that Gru had been telling. I think it stands far better as a unit than either Annihilation (so far...Conquest hasn't impressed me) or the various Infinity sagas. Sinestro Corps War has an internal consistency that I think puts it above any of Marvel's cosmic crossovers...with the exception of Thanos Quest which I think is a really strong story. However, Thanos moves from protagonist in Thanos Quest to antagonist in Infinity Gauntlet, and I think this confuses and dilutes Infinity Gauntlet to some degree. Plus, you have the Aladdin's Lamp syndrome where bad things are wished for which means that readers just start waiting for everything to be wished back.
Conquest has suffered from a decompressed style in that nothing has really happened yet. They've only just found out that Ultron is in charge and had an initial skirmish with him. And, if you count Nova, then we're really what 17 issues into this thing. Nova's issues have actually advanced his story, but big stuff only happened in the Prologue.

I don't think in conquest nothing happended yet, there are lot of things, like the comeback of Warlock, there are the revelation of Ultron the leader of the phalanx, there are lot of mystery like Ronan come back in the territory of Ravenous for a secret weapon, I always find that strange in the end of annihilation that Ronan give a kree territory for an enemy, now conquest resolve this point,the mini are also very good, specially the starlord and the Quasar mini, I love the fantasy space Opera style, I find that very original, there are in fact another rythm in conquest, but I don't find that too slow, it's more a spy cosmic story that another war cosmic story, I think it's the perfect timing for this kind of story.

For Sinestro War, in my opinion it's a great story, but I find that too chaotic in the way the story are told, nothing like annihilation in my opinion, there are so much character with same powers, I know it's a corps against another with the famous ring, but I think there are too much protagonist with the same ability, if someone died in this story, there are no the same feel when someone die in annihilation, if someone of the green lantern or the sinestro corps die, there are a lots, it's not really important, I don't like the way the story introduced the anti-monitor and Superboy prime, it's like the authors want to do a big crossover with all the most powerful characters, I don't like lot of element but I don't make some spoiler for peoples who don't read again the book, for me some elements are also not very clear or weaks, but despites I really like the comics, but for me cosmic marvel are better (lot more character like Ronan, Warlock, gamora, drax, quasar etc...).

For Cosmos in collision, I really dislike that, specially the way Maelstrom become more powerful, I think that very bad, it's seem very simple for him to cheat Kronos despite his cosmic rank, but also other great cosmics figures like celestial etc..., you say you don't like the Aladdin syndrome but it's exactly the same elements in cosmos in collision with Maelstrom, but without the great talent of Jim Starlin, there are lot of people that complain about the way Starlin show poorly quasar, but we can say the same things about gruenwald with the famous scene in cosmos in collision with thanos, but also with the story of the m-bodies who destroy all the works of Starlin for the end of infinity gauntlet and the famous trial of Warlock, but it's just my opinion.
I think it's normal if Thanos or Warlock are the leader of these stories, first, in the beginniing if the 90's it was the big comeback of these two characters in marvel comics, it's normal there are more important that others characters that we see regurarly all the months, and also there are the fact that for infinity gauntlet and infinity war, the gems are important places, and there are just warlock and thanos with a strong link with the infinity gems (sorry everybody for my bad english).

[The Confessor]

I'm still sad Blue Blade was the one to die. He's awesome even when dead!


As far as I'm concerned, I much prefer him when he's dead. :p At least he had the good sense to put on a tunic and some trousers before he kicked the bucket though. He had some sense of decency at least. ;)

I really enjoyed this preview of The Twelve #2, I can't wait for it to come out. After just one issue this series has already become my favourite comic of the moment.

It's quite interesting seeing how the gang is adjusting to the brave new world thay've been catapulted into too. And is it just me or is there a possible Phantom Reporter/Black Widow romance being set up in those preview pages? Hmmmm....

[wallred]

Well, if you want to complain about "Marvel Universe: The End," that's fine, but it doesn't have anything to do with Infinity Gauntlet. I'd certainly agree that (as I said) the guy went to the same well a little too often at times.

Thanos losing only because he subconsciously wanted to lose was Warlock's theory/insight during Infinity Gauntlet, but it's not like it cropped up over and over again in future series. In The End, he "won" -- only to discover the win was really a loss. It wasn't a plot point in either the Thanos series or "Annihilation." (Although I tend to think he wanted Drax to kill him, but not "subconsciously.")

I'm wondering - are some of your negative feelings regarding Thanos and Starlin influenced by the way Thanos used and abused your hero Quasar during Infinity War? :) Just a guess.

Your probably right about Marvel Universe: The End, but I just see it as a continuation and extension of Infinity Gauntlet.
I guess Thanos only losing because he really wanted to is ties into what annoys me about the character. He's worse than that darn Tweety Bird. Every other character takes his or her lumps, but not Thanos...he never loses. Extremely annoying to me, and yes, he did use and abuse Quasar. I guess I just don't like these Machiavellian type characters who always seem to have every contingency covered. They're just not very interesting to me (or very heroic).

[agrich]

Every other character takes his or her lumps, but not Thanos...he never loses.

You know, he did spend an entire decade frozen in stone, and he got his heart punched out by Drax a little while back. It hasn't all been wine and roses for Thanos.


Extremely annoying to me, and yes, he did use and abuse Quasar. I guess I just don't like these Machiavellian type characters who always seem to have every contingency covered. They're just not very interesting to me (or very heroic).

That's cool (and what I figured). To me a character can certainly be plenty interesting without being "heroic" in the strictest sense of the word. But hey, that's why your favorite character is Wendell and mine's Warlock.

[DaeJi]

I never did like villains who only lost because they wanted to. As cool as Doom and Thanos are, and as much as I like to see them be ultra powerful, I still think they should lose because the heroes beat them.

As far as Conquest compared to other cosmic stories go... it's different. Very different. More subtle, quieter, more intimate in a sense. It's not better or worse, just a lower key story.

[agrich]

I never did like villains who only lost because they wanted to. As cool as Doom and Thanos are, and as much as I like to see them be ultra powerful, I still think they should lose because the heroes beat them.


Well, whose word are you taking for it? Doom's? Just because he thinks Richards has never defeated him doesn't mean he's right.

As for Thanos, he admitted he'd been tricked by Annihilus in Annihilation, and he certainly wasn't expecting Warlock to come back from the dead to turn him into stone way back in Marvel 2-in-1 Annual 2. Again, the guy was a statue for 10 years (real time). I think that's being beaten.

[wallred]

You know, he did spend an entire decade frozen in stone, and he got his heart punched out by Drax a little while back. It hasn't all been wine and roses for Thanos.

It's been awhile since I read those issues, but wasn't he actually dead? I seem to remember him finding out about the Infinity Gems in Death's realm. Also, was he killing stars one at a time in the Marvel Two-In-One Annual and Avengers Annual?

That's cool (and what I figured). To me a character can certainly be plenty interesting without being "heroic" in the strictest sense of the word. But hey, that's why your favorite character is Wendell and mine's Warlock.

I agree completely. I've just always gravitated to those heroes who lived on the more heroic end of the scale. Although, I've always thought Adam Warlock was an interesting character. I'm just not sure that anybody but Starlin can write him the way he was...which is why I guess we got a soft reboot with him in Conquest.
Out of curiosity, what's your take on Adam so far in Conquest?

[XPac]

It's been awhile since I read those issues, but wasn't he actually dead? I seem to remember him finding out about the Infinity Gems in Death's realm. Also, was he killing stars one at a time in the Marvel Two-In-One Annual and Avengers Annual?



I agree completely. I've just always gravitated to those heroes who lived on the more heroic end of the scale. Although, I've always thought Adam Warlock was an interesting character. I'm just not sure that anybody but Starlin can write him the way he was...which is why I guess we got a soft reboot with him in Conquest.
Out of curiosity, what's your take on Adam so far in Conquest?

Whether Thanos was dead or not is an interesting question.

I think the original idea at least was that he wasn't dead... the irony being that he was being denied death, the thing he wanted most.

But he was seen in the Death of Captain Marvel with Death, which kind of implies he was with Death. So I'm not sure.