The "One More Day" Interview with Joe Quesada - The Fans [Archive]

ZT4

01-28-2008, 08:08 PM

Interesting to hear there's "no back door"...then he says, right above it, that Mephisto is full of lies and references MJ's whisper like it COULD be a back door.

Fans didnt complain about Norman being alive because his serum gave him a healing factor, they explained that, and in the context of the Goblin formula, it was absolutley grounded and beleivable.

...He says Peter wasnt deaged, yet said in another OMD interview he deliberatly illustrated the two in their mid thirties to signify their age, and that's what Peter and MJ clearly were up until the 1999 reboot and even in JMS's Romita Jr run (he illustrated a signficantly less young Peter and MJ but emulated the classic styles of the characters)

I love how open he is, but there seems to be a bend in the wind with every opinion (which unfortunatley isnt new). Yes, this is the second-guessing and unpredictable nature he brings to Marve with great success (when done properly), but he shouldnt bring it to interviews.

Expletive Deleted

01-28-2008, 08:13 PM

Interesting to hear there's "no back door"...then he says, right above it, that Mephisto is full of lies and references MJ's whisper like it COULD be a back door.Well, right. He says that if he wanted to, he could find a dozen back doors in the story. It's just that they weren't intentionally built into the story to provide that "out."

BenjaminAndrewMoore

01-28-2008, 08:18 PM

So many questions and not a single one of them about JMS' letter to Newsarama? Seriously? No. I refuse to believe that. CBR, don't you want to see questions answered that would actually be interesting to the fans? This felt like a re-run, like I'd seen it before and I didn't like it the first time. I hope that you didn't omit the truly tough and quality questions to preserve whatever biased relationship you seem to have with Joe Quesada, but that's exactly what it looks like from where I'm sitting.

ZT4

01-28-2008, 08:25 PM

Bugaboo-X

01-28-2008, 08:28 PM

Mr. Quesada has single-handedly made me realize I've outgrown comic books. Sadly, I won't be able to urge the next generation to buy them either now.

jeffgamer

01-28-2008, 08:43 PM

Mr. Quesada has single-handedly made me realize I've outgrown comic books. Sadly, I won't be able to urge the next generation to buy them either now.

Totally agree with you here. I've got 34 years of reading Spider-man under my belt...no end was in sight, and my son was reading also...and now I have absolutely NO interest in reading these books, and he's going to read the back issues...we're not bothering to continue to give Marvel our money, neither for Spider-man nor for any other book published in this new "666 Universe". I received all three issues of BND...they don't let your subscription lapse immediately, so three issues got out before cancellation...and I've had absolutely no interest in even opening the plastic on the books. None. Zip. Nada. I've heard enough about their content on the forums, and there's absolutely nothing that appeals to me.

They've disenfranchised me and a boatload of other readers, killed any interest I had in the character. I didn't think ANYONE could do that. But Quesada did.

Bring back the married Spider-man with the evolved powers whom I've watched grow and evolve. This new guy is utterly recognizable as the Spider-man of today. Trying to recapture what Spider-man was over 20 years ago makes the character pitiable and pathetic to me, and is, quite frankly, an insult to readers.

The only plus thing I can say is that, in this final interview, Quesada finally dialed back his natural arrogance, probably because there has no doubt been far more fan hatred directed toward him than his "180-degree reversal" BS spin comment implies.

I'm out of the 666 Marvel Universe comic-reading hobby now. They can look me up if they ever reverse this and bring back the married 616 Spidey I cared about. Though, given that in most other interview Quesada has been clear in his disinterest in holding onto the many long-time fans who feel likewise, I suppose that would be like asking for divine enlightenment from a Mephisto-worshipper.

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 08:43 PM

JohnnyC

01-28-2008, 08:44 PM

Well, I can honestly say this (and I know it's an unpopular opinion): I think OMD/BND worked, for this simple reason: it pulled me into Amazing Spider-Man. I've been reading Ultimate Spidey for a while, and have read plenty of old Spider-Man stories, but the JMS run was way too difficult to find a jumping-on point, or even a story idea that seemed all that interesting. Thought I'd point that out.

As for this interview, I can't help but like Joey Q. Maybe because I haven't been reading Amazing for 20+ years, but I just don't see how the fans can possibly portray Joey Q as the bad guy from this interview. Time will tell. I mean, can anyone actually read this and think that Quesada is such an awful scumbag that he's lying while promising answers? Come on, give the dude some credit. What if answers are given, and they're incredible? Yeah, anyway...

As for the whole "back door" thing, I don't think the part about Mephisto's lies and MJ's whisper is a backdoor, though I thought it could be at first. Read it again: it seems like whatever MJ whispered will explain the "other" things that happened, i.e. Harry coming back, web shooters, etc.

And that's my piece on the subject.

ANewHope

01-28-2008, 08:45 PM

Honestly, Joe Q came off sounding really sincere and I'm glad he provided some well thought out answers for the tough questions we've all been thinking about. It felt like he took a considerable amount of time to attempt to make the online community "happy" with the new direction taken in Spiderman.

One month ago, I was angry due to the outcome created by OMD. But the way I see it, it's a new year and hopefully Brand New Day will grow on me.

The first two Dan Slott issues were just ok for me. But I was surprised last week how much I enjoyed ASM 548. I thought this comic was great, and if future Spiderman comics continue to be written to this standard... for the most part, I'll be happy. Dan Slott and McNiven have set the standard for Spiderman man. Let's hope this continues, with new writers and artists meeting and hopefully exceeding our expectations.

In case you were wondering, I've always taken the stance that I was willing to give Brand New Day a chance. At this moment, only ASM 548 has made me happy.. Thats only 1 out of 3 issues of ASM. But its a start.

Blader5489

01-28-2008, 08:50 PM

And I can't recall how many times he closed a question with "keep reading."

Well, what's he going to do? Spoil future stories just so all of your questions are answered right now?

Going by that logic, Bendis should just tell us right now who is or isn't a Skrull, rather than have us wait for the stories to hit. :rolleyes:

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 08:51 PM

Well, what's he going to do? Spoil future stories just so all of your questions are answered right now?

Going by that logic, Bendis should just tell us right now who is or isn't a Skrull, rather than have us wait for the stories to hit. :rolleyes:

Do you really believe that all of these questions are going to be answered in BND? It's nothing more than a shameless plug, and a way to politely tell people to shut up.

the spot

01-28-2008, 08:55 PM

Do you really believe that all of these questions are going to be answered in BND? It's nothing more than a shameless plug, and a way to politely tell people to shut up.

So then what should his answer have been? So his only option is to spoil the story to prove it to you?

No answers given would satisfy that logic.

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 08:57 PM

So then what should his answer have been? So his only option is to spoil the story to prove it to you?

No answers given would satisfy that logic.

Well, to be honest, we can't believe anything Quesada says anyway, because he's already lied to us and back-tracked on a lot of stuff he's said. He could be a politician.

JohnnyC

01-28-2008, 09:01 PM

Sorry, Shade, but a lot of what you claim Joey Q said is biased bullshit, to be honest. A sampling:

it's magic, and we don't have to explain it.

Here is a direct quote from one of the answers regarding the whole "It's Magic and we don't have to explain it". In fact, it's the first thing he says following 'Hey' and the person's name (Sean).

I didn’t say those words.

Of course, he may not be telling the truth, but he picked that one part out of the question and made sure he addressed it immediately. I am confident he's telling the truth.

- It's okay to do something wrong, so long as someone else initiates the possibility. So, kids, the next time someone offers you drugs, it's okay to say yes because the dealer is the one who made the offer! However, seeking out a drug dealer and asking for drugs is wrong.

Awful analogy. In OMD, Peter gives up his marriage to save a person's life. In your example, Person A gives up some cash to get high. Yeah, that's pretty much the same.

- BND is movie Spider-Man in the comics.

No, no, no. All he said was the movies can help new readers to understand Harry's character, and he's 100% right.

- Have a question that I don't have a good answer for? Well, read BND and maybe we'll come up with something between now and forever! And if not, thanks for buying anyway! (Sucker.)

Of course! Why even read fiction at all when we could have people explain every plot point in great detail through interviews! Brilliant! Sorry for the sarcasm, but come on, man. How do you know they won't reveal everything? You don't. But it would be a very poor move for Joe to just say "Well Harry came back because x, y and z happened."

- Magic can do whatever the hell we want it to.

Refer to counterpoint 1.

- When I said "dead is dead," I meant it. Unless someone decided to bring someone back from the dead, in which case it was for a good reason.

I have to agree with you here. It really read like he didn't want to admit he changed his mind.

- All the stories you read still happened. Except for the ones that contradict the new status quo, in which case they didn't happen. I don't care if you have the issue in your hands. It didn't happen.

Um...I see no evidence to support this in his answers. If you can prove me wrong, by all means do so.

Oh, and I LOVE the recycled scenario with the random woman getting shot AGAIN. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that was unnecessary.

Sorry if I came across as a prick, but I just think Joe Q gets quite a few shots taken at him, and felt I should be allowed to fire back, since he's not on these boards to do so.

the spot

01-28-2008, 09:01 PM

Well, to be honest, we can't believe anything Quesada says anyway, because he's already lied to us and back-tracked on a lot of stuff he's said. He could be a politician.

Then why bother with the interview? I mean you can't truly believe that, so you were reading it to see the lies you already knew he would tell before you read it?

stillanerd

01-28-2008, 09:06 PM

What's particularly revealing about that interview in which he responds to Brandon's question about how that even though events may still have happened, as Quesada claims, the fact that memories have been altered would imply that, because they have memories of different experiences, they'd logically be different characters. Not only does Quesada insist yet again that nothing has changed expect for the "slightest tweaks here and there," he then adds this interesting tidbit:

Slowly but surely, you’ll start to see layers and layers of what has happened since OMD, the things that are causing folks to panic, slowly get revealed in the pages of BND. Remember, there’s a chunk of time still missing, stories yet to be told that happen before we join Peter and the gang at the end of OMD. That chunk of time could be very important. Also, what happened on the wedding day? They didn’t get hitched, but decided to stay together anyway, hmmm. So many seeds and clues will be planted and revealed in the comings months and year, that I think you’re going to dig it, but as a reader, you’ll need to be patient, we have many, many stories yet to tell.

He then reiterates it later:

Sergio, you’re correct, there is some missing time, it’s obvious some time has gone by as you keenly noticed, MJ and Peter have broken up. When did it happen, how long have they been broken up, these are stories yet to be told.

But wait a minute? Doesn't the very fact that there are gaps, missing time, and stories yet to be told that's supposed to explain what happened in this new reality suggest by it's very nature that there's been quite a few changes to Spider-Man's history, aside from just a "minor tweaking" of turning the marriage into a long-term relationship? What's more, it was that "missing time" element that DC used for their "One Year Later" stunt, and even though we got in 52 that was supposed to fill in the gaps of that missing year, there were several titles in which the events of that year either weren't adequately explained or still have yet to be explained. Now Quesada is going to try that same tactic with Spider-Man? Well, all I can say is that the longer the stigma of One More Day hangs over the title and remains unresolved, Marvel is going to continue to be feeling the heat that they generated with the clusterf**k they did to continuity.

Sean Whitmore

01-28-2008, 09:08 PM

So many questions and not a single one of them about JMS' letter to Newsarama?

Sure there was. The one asking about "it's magic, we don't have to explain it." That was only asked because JMS said he said it, which Quesada then said he didn't.

I hope that you didn't omit the truly tough and quality questions

Nope. Omitted a lot of really stupid ones, though.

SEAN

Sean Whitmore

01-28-2008, 09:10 PM

Then why bother with the interview? I mean you can't truly believe that, so you were reading it to see the lies you already knew he would tell before you read it?

I honestly believe some people were waiting for their apology. And will continue to do so.

SEAN

J Alan Shelton

01-28-2008, 09:20 PM

As far as addressing continuity issues, I take him at his word and believe that anything that could be considered substantial (i.e. organic webshooters, Harry, etc.) will likely be explained in future installments of BND.

In regards to the deal with Mephisto as well as ending the marriage in general...I felt the answers were wholly unsatisfying and disagree vehemently with many of them. This coupled with the underwhelming feeling I got from reading Dan Slott's intial BND outing means I won't be sticking around to see how things are explained.

This is just not a book (or worse, a character that) I love anymore and I'm not willing to give them any more money on the promise that I'll grow to love the book eventually.

Mister Mets

01-28-2008, 09:24 PM

Man, what a load of spin control. My head is still swimming.

With that said, here's essentially what Quesada said (paraphrasing):

- We do everything with a long-term plan in mind. Unless it messes up continuity, in which case it's magic, and we don't have to explain it.
- It's okay to do something wrong, so long as someone else initiates the possibility. So, kids, the next time someone offers you drugs, it's okay to say yes because the dealer is the one who made the offer! However, seeking out a drug dealer and asking for drugs is wrong.
- Everything that has happened throughout Spider-Man's history is canon. Unless, of course, someone down the line decided they didn't like it, or we haven't talked about it in a while, in which case it never actually happened. We'll let you determine which is which.
- Everything happened the same, except differently.
- The clone saga didn't happen. I swear to God, it didn't happen.
- Nobody in the Marvel Universe is inquisitive enough to ask why Norman Obsorn is alive, or why they can remember Spider-Man unmasking, but can't remember his identity. Shit happens, we don't need to explain how.
- BND is movie Spider-Man in the comics.
- Have a question that I don't have a good answer for? Well, read BND and maybe we'll come up with something between now and forever! And if not, thanks for buying anyway! (Sucker.)
- Magic can do whatever the hell we want it to.
- When I said "dead is dead," I meant it. Unless someone decided to bring someone back from the dead, in which case it was for a good reason.
- All the stories you read still happened. Except for the ones that contradict the new status quo, in which case they didn't happen. I don't care if you have the issue in your hands. It didn't happen.

Oh, and I LOVE the recycled scenario with the random woman getting shot AGAIN. :rolleyes:

Quesada is quite the double-talker, talking a lot without saying much. And I can't recall how many times he closed an answer to a question with "keep reading." :rolleyes:
What's so wrong with the "random woman getting shot" scenario? Peter and Mary Jane sacrificed their marriage to save a life. That's something that a lot of the anti-OMD crowd seems to intentionally ignore. I also don't see the link between someone offering you drugs and someone offering to save the life of a good woman (who may be 73 but whose mother lived to be 98).

I'm sure people in the Marvel U are asking questions about OMD. We're just not seeing them at the moment.

Do you really believe that all of these questions are going to be answered in BND? It's nothing more than a shameless plug, and a way to politely tell people to shut up.

The difference between intrigue and suspense is that suspense is about what is going to happen while intrigue is about what has already happened. With the new status quo, Marvel has created a legitimate amount of intrigue. Why on Earth would Marvel provide all these explanations (presumably in one helluva dense scene) when they could wait until more appropriate moments? It's the equivalent of asking the creators of Lost to answer every mystery now. Fans have dozens of questions and I suspect if Amazing Spider-Man starts answering a few of them in Brand New Day, there will be debate and discussion about what'll happen next in the book.

CMBMOOL

01-28-2008, 09:25 PM

I honestly believe some people were waiting for their apology. And will continue to do so.

SEAN

And I'm one of them. :D

Seriously this interview was one of the most "honest" ones yet. I mean even though Joe Q did hold in his inner fanboy, he still doesn't convince me.

All Amazing Spider-man is now saying is that Peter and Mary Jane sold their marriage to devil and now they are living in the past.

Plain and simple enough to explain to kids everywhere that Amazing Spider-man is a version of Spider-man who is the ultimate sell-out of his fellow heroes, because he made a deal with an ACTUAL MYSTICAL BEING.

At least Tony Stark admited his faults even if it is to himself.

Right now I'm permantly avoiding ASM and waiting for the moment where Peter's BND life just comes crashing down upon him. :p

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 09:29 PM

Johnny C, when one of the questions states that a lot of issues have been invalidated by the retcon, Quesada responds:

Sergio, you’re correct, there is some missing time, it’s obvious some time has gone by as you keenly noticed, MJ and Peter have broken up. When did it happen, how long have they been broken up, these are stories yet to be told.

So, Quesada is admitting that these issues did happen differently, which invalidates them. Not that this is news, really. It's quite obvious that SSM #200, SSM #250, ASM #518-519, and many other issues were thrown completely out the window with the retcon. You simply can't say that Harry's death still happened, but differently, or Harry's son was still saved, but differently, or Aunt May's house still burned down, but differently.

And concerning the "I didn't say those words" quote, I'd be more prone to believe a person who hasn't constantly lied and back-tracked to the public over someone who has. And "I didn't say those words" can easily be interpreted as "I didn't say those [exact] words," which is a classic spin tactic.

Then why bother with the interview? I mean you can't truly believe that, so you were reading it to see the lies you already knew he would tell before you read it?

I like seeing people spin in the wind. It amuses me. But I'm going to call them on it, too.

Quesada is contradicting himself all over the place, and the more answers he attempts to answer, the more questions and confusion he raises. Of course, he can't come out and admit that they didn't think things through as thoroughly as they should have, but he knows deep down that this an overly convoluted clusterfuck. OMD was just a plot device to get to BND, continuity and common sense be damned.

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 09:34 PM

The difference between intrigue and suspense is that suspense is about what is going to happen while intrigue is about what has already happened. With the new status quo, Marvel has created a legitimate amount of intrigue. Why on Earth would Marvel provide all these explanations (presumably in one helluva dense scene) when they could wait until more appropriate moments? It's the equivalent of asking the creators of Lost to answer every mystery now. Fans have dozens of questions and I suspect if Amazing Spider-Man starts answering a few of them in Brand New Day, there will be debate and discussion about what'll happen next in the book.

The difference is, if you're going to say that the stories we've read for the last 20 years didn't actually happen, we want to know why, and how, and NOW. We don't want to re-read the last 20 years AGAIN in a different context over the next X number of years. This isn't a case of asking them to reveal new plot points early. This is a case of asking them to clarify the past that they've FUBARed.

JohnnyC

01-28-2008, 09:36 PM

Johnny C, when one of the questions states that a lot of issues have been invalidated by the retcon, Quesada responds:

Quote:
Sergio, you’re correct, there is some missing time, it’s obvious some time has gone by as you keenly noticed, MJ and Peter have broken up. When did it happen, how long have they been broken up, these are stories yet to be told.

So, Quesada is admitting that these issues did happen differently, which invalidates them. Not that this is news, really. It's quite obvious that SSM #200, SSM #250, ASM #518-519, and many other issues were thrown completely out the window with the retcon. You simply can't say that Harry's death still happened, but differently, or Harry's son was still saved, but differently, or Aunt May's house still burned down, but differently.

I actually think he's only responding to the first part of the question, as he says "Sergio, you are correct" and goes on to talk about the time elapsed between OMD and BND, not the invalidation of previous issues. This may seem like he's dodging the question, and he very well may be, but I don't think he's admitting invalidation of all those issues.

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 09:40 PM

I actually think he's only responding to the first part of the question, as he says "Sergio, you are correct" and goes on to talk about the time elapsed between OMD and BND, not the invalidation of previous issues. This may seem like he's dodging the question, and he very well may be, but I don't think he's admitting invalidation of all those issues.

Like I said, common sense says that those issues are invalidated. Harry's not dead, and presumably never died. Harry never had a son to be saved. Aunt May's house is still intact, and presumably never burned down.

The marriage itself never happened, so that issue is most definitely out the window.

There are literally TONS of examples like this. Quesada basically admitted that the retcon took care of the clone saga, so the eleventy-billion clone saga issues are invalidated now, too.

Quesada originally said that everything still happened, but was remembered differently. He's already backtracking on that statement, and rightfully so. It was an incredibly stupid statement to make in the first place. Stuff like that makes me think that Quesada truly believes we're all a bunch of morons.

Marveluted

01-28-2008, 10:10 PM

I love how to keep Spider-man perpetually young means breaking up the marriage without divorce and without killing MJ. Cyclops had his wife die. Does that make him seem older? Maybe, but it adds to the sense of responsibility on his shoulders. At any rate, both characters were around the same age when they were introduced to the Marvel U.

And the shows an intrinsic difference in the approach of these titles. The X-Men will constantly evolve (and presumably age) while Spider-man will remain constantly 25 and single. Which is more lively storytelling?

Yes, there is the argument that Spider-man needs to be accessible to the younger generations. But these kids grew up knowing only a comic book Spider-man that was married. Even taking into account the cartoon and movie versions, kids will still expect Peter to at least be dating MJ and not playing the field.

All of this is secondary to the main problem that may never be addressed. This was really half-assed execution, and a lot of us feel insulted that we're expected to accept an ill-conceived retcon with a big stupid fanboy smile on our faces.

ZT4

01-28-2008, 10:14 PM

I love how to keep Spider-man perpetually young means breaking up the marriage without divorce and without killing MJ. Cyclops had his wife die. Does that make him seem older?

Cylcops isnt a figurehead like Spidey is and is the leader of a team that can add fresh, younger members

He, and we, are also used to her dying by now, it's Jean that told Scott to move on and boff Emma rather than have him always wait for her.

philly

01-28-2008, 10:14 PM

Like I said, common sense says that those issues are invalidated. Harry's not dead, and presumably never died. Harry never had a son to be saved. Aunt May's house is still intact, and presumably never burned down.

The marriage itself never happened, so that issue is most definitely out the window.

There are literally TONS of examples like this. Quesada basically admitted that the retcon took care of the clone saga, so the eleventy-billion clone saga issues are invalidated now, too.

Quesada originally said that everything still happened, but was remembered differently. He's already backtracking on that statement, and rightfully so. It was an incredibly stupid statement to make in the first place. Stuff like that makes me think that Quesada truly believes we're all a bunch of morons.

Joe Q really does make himself look bad in the interviews he gives. Every time he says "Keep reading" when faced with a question he will not answer only tells me that he has not really thought out an solution to the problem, which proves how mishandle " Brand New Day" really is.

Joe is a used car salesman trying to sell a lemon of a story and the sad part is the fact that he knows his sales pitch is bad.

Alan2099

01-28-2008, 10:22 PM

I love how to keep Spider-man perpetually young means breaking up the marriage without divorce and without killing MJ. Cyclops had his wife die. Does that make him seem older? Maybe, but it adds to the sense of responsibility on his shoulders.
Cyclops was in his forties even when he was a teen. There never was any youthful energy with that character.

Plain and simple enough to explain to kids everywhere that Amazing Spider-man is a version of Spider-man who is the ultimate sell-out of his fellow heroes, because he made a deal with an ACTUAL MYSTICAL BEING.

So I guess you'd be happy if none of the heroes ever talked to Dr. Strange or Thor again, right?

As for the keep reading answer... what do you people want? Do you WANT him to come right out and tell you how future stories and events are going to be? Isn't that spoiling some of the fun? There are certain things you know, some thing you don't know, and other things you think you know. It kinda ruins the effect when the story line steps up and solves a mystery or the cliffhanger revolves around something you only thought you knew when you've already been told exactly what's going to happen in an interview.

timebomb451

01-28-2008, 10:24 PM

damn, instead of putting out "wwh: damage control," they should've instead put out "omd: damage control." might get 12 issues out of it the way it's still going

Blader5489

01-28-2008, 10:27 PM

Just for the record:

Quesada never said "It's magic, we don't have to explain it" and JMS never accused him of saying it; the line was attributed to the collective "Marvel."

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 10:28 PM

As for the keep reading answer... what do you people want? Do you WANT him to come right out and tell you how future stories and events are going to be? Isn't that spoiling some of the fun? There are certain things you know, some thing you don't know, and other things you think you know. It kinda ruins the effect when the story line steps up and solves a mystery or the cliffhanger revolves around something you only thought you knew when you've already been told exactly what's going to happen in an interview.

I already addressed this:

The difference is, if you're going to say that the stories we've read for the last 20 years didn't actually happen, we want to know why, and how, and NOW. We don't want to re-read the last 20 years AGAIN in a different context over the next X number of years. This isn't a case of asking them to reveal new plot points early. This is a case of asking them to clarify the past that they've FUBARed.

The Orange Bat

01-28-2008, 10:45 PM

Let's forget for just a second that the retcon story failed miserably. Let's instead go back to when Aunt May was shot and Peter spent the next few months trying to figure out how to save her. I really just began reading Spider-Man again after about 15 years and was curious about the whole "Civil War" thing and Peter's secret identity was no longer a secret. The talk on the inter webs was all about what how the Aunt May thing was gonna end. So, for what seemed like the longest death in history, I followed Peter as he worked his tail off to figure out a way to save his Aunt. Then, finally, One More Day finally came around. The first 2 issues were kinda lame, but that's comics sometimes. There's a lot of filler before the main event. I don't really remember part 3, but Aunt May was finally dying. And, wow, the setup for her death was wonderful. There was a lot of emotion in Peter and MJ and Peter having to deal with the death of his closest relative. I eagerly picked up part 4 in anticipation of a huge climax. Well, everybody knows what happened. After following the comic for about a year, a character I had never even heard of snaps his fingers and makes the past year and all the emotion behind the death of Aunt May disappear. What Quesada doesn't seem to understand is that this was the end to a rather long story about the possible loss of a loved one. It is so ingenuous to just magically heal her after investing a year into reading all 3 Spidey books. Honestly, I love a lot of the writing in Marvel right now. I'm totally into 3 books I used to laugh at as a kid as being pretty lame: Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor. And, guess what, I now think Spider-Man is pretty lame. My favorite super hero is lame. And that's just sad.

JimmyDee

01-28-2008, 10:50 PM

BenjaminAndrewMoore

01-28-2008, 10:55 PM

The "Dead is Dead" rule was to get writers to think...oook, that would explain the high body count lately wouldnt it?:o

JMS's infamous interviews were the "Frozen Peas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14PfDDwxlE)" of the Quesada tenure, but it was something that Joe's already talked about in the previous OMD interviews, there's no point in furthering the disagreements that the two have put behind them bringing that up

Huh? Have you seen the same crap I have?

The day after Joe threw JMS under the bus in the last CBR interview, JMS wrote an email to Newsarama basically saying that Joe was lying and/or omitting key pieces of information about the whole ordeal. Joe has not commented about that statement and therefore the entire damn thing has not been resolved. I want to know who is lying. I want those questions answered. I guess you don't, but don't tell me that Joe basically "talked about" everything in regard to One More Day and JMS because he hasn't--he couldn't, as the information I am referring to had not been available yet. No point in furthering the disagreements between the two...? What are we, children? This isn't like politics or foreign affairs, I understand--but the fans still have the right to know the truth. If people want comic books to be treated seriously, to be respected like other art mediums, then they have to take them seriously themselves. Treat this news and this interview as seriously as you would anything else. Why not? Are we seriously afraid of hurting their feelings?

Geesh.

Mister Mets

01-28-2008, 10:57 PM

The difference is, if you're going to say that the stories we've read for the last 20 years didn't actually happen, we want to know why, and how, and NOW. We don't want to re-read the last 20 years AGAIN in a different context over the next X number of years. This isn't a case of asking them to reveal new plot points early. This is a case of asking them to clarify the past that they've FUBARed.If a situation has been truly FUBARed, there are no benefits to any clarifications.

And do you believe the financial and creative benefits of revealing every detail now (presumably in a dense wall of text, or a dense issue that's essentially a summary) exceed those of carefully waiting until more appropriate times to reveal the important details? Plus, some stuff (What happened during the Clone Saga? How did a single Peter react differently to the Vertigo that plagued him for a few months in the late 90s?) is fairly unimportant to most readers.

Mister Mets

01-28-2008, 10:59 PM

Huh? Have you seen the same crap I have?

The day after Joe threw JMS under the bus in the last CBR interview, JMS wrote an email to Newsarama basically saying that Joe was lying and/or omitting key pieces of information about the whole ordeal. Joe has not commented about that statement and therefore the entire damn thing has not been resolved. I want to know who is lying. I want those questions answered. I guess you don't, but don't tell me that Joe basically "talked about" everything in regard to One More Day and JMS because he hasn't--he couldn't, as the information I am referring to had not been available yet. No point in furthering the disagreements between the two...? What are we, children? This isn't like politics or foreign affairs, I understand--but the fans still have the right to know the truth. If people want comic books to be treated seriously, to be respected like other art mediums, then they have to take them seriously themselves. Treat this news and this interview as seriously as you would anything else. Why not? Are we seriously afraid of hurting their feelings?

Geesh.Link? I think you're making several massive exaggerations here.

The Orange Bat

01-28-2008, 11:04 PM

This whole "OMD" "BND" feels like a business decision more than a creative one. For good or bad Marvel has become a much bigger company in the last few years and they are thinking of their bottom line. It seems that there must have been a meeting of executives near the release of Spider-Man 3. This meeting probably said, "We need the Spidey of the comics to be more relevant and match up better with the Spidey of the movies. Spider-Man is our biggest franchise, and as such we need to se positive in all aspects of Spider-Man, including the comics." Now I know they say that the success of the movies has nothing to do with the direction of the comics, but how can it not? This is a business, first and foremost. So Quesada is just doing his job in holding the corporate line while changing the comic in the way he was told to. It's corporate synergy at its worst. You'll never hear them say this, either, because jobs are on the line. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to learn someday that Quesada didn;t care much for the Mephisto thing himself but did it because of corporate pressure.

ZT4

01-28-2008, 11:10 PM

And what if the next movie has Peter marry MJ? Instant publicity stunt, and we've come full circle (as the marraige, whilst the natural conclusion of a story you could beleive could end in marraige any moment, was a publicity stunt itself) , just as Peter and MJ getting back together occured upon the release of Spider-Man 2, which officially stamped their relationship in the films.

"Hmm, you know, what if a baby draws money? Wanna try it?"

"Yeah, we got enough complaints"

BenjaminAndrewMoore

01-28-2008, 11:13 PM

Sure there was. The one asking about "it's magic, we don't have to explain it." That was only asked because JMS said he said it, which Quesada then said he didn't.

An inexplicit question about a comment that vaguely correlates with the person who said it does not address the validity of the source's overall statement, which is what I was talking about and only barely relates to what you offered as an example of what I was looking for. Know what I'm saying?

Anyway--so is that a yes or a no? Were there no real (read: explicit, direct, etc.) questions about JMS' post-OMD comments and the validity therein? Or was the question you referenced the only one? In the response, Joe dodges the question and never says anything about JMS at all.

Nope. Omitted a lot of really stupid ones, though.

I'm sure that's true, and I know it's tough to sort and sift through the unadulterated crap that is internet-fanboy-questions-about-an-overly-heated-topic-of-comic-conversation; but that said, the questions that were used make this interview look more like PR than anything. Unfortunately.

johnnyrocket

01-28-2008, 11:16 PM

There was no immediate back door for the unmasking 18 months ago either. Credibility is shot.

Why do they keep doing this? We comics boarders aren't supposed to be a signifcant representation of their sales, according to Quesada, Wacker and Brevoort in many a previous interview. And yet they keep on spinning to us? Curious. All I can say is, if you have to keep explaining the rationale behind the story then you know you didn't do your job right.

OK, so the Reader's Digest version of all this is: this was his opinion and his rationale (divorce is worse than faustian deals) and just keep reading....

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up!

BenjaminAndrewMoore

01-28-2008, 11:21 PM

Link? I think you're making several massive exaggerations here.

Link. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4946249&postcount=1)

"...It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution."

"...As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word.

"...But there are some vital omissions in the interview, including the primary reason I finally threw up my hands on the book, which had mainly to do with how the resolution was handled."

And so on.

So, yeah, I assure you I'm not making "major exaggerations." JMS is very diplomatic about it, but read Quesada's comments in the first CBR interview and then compare them to JMS' comments at Newsarama. Those are two completely contradicting point-of-views, which means someone is not telling the truth.

And maybe I'm just a weirdo for wanting to know which one.

Jukka Laine of Finland

01-28-2008, 11:34 PM

JMS' letter to Newsarama?

It's been retconned. It doesn't exist anymore. :p

Shade 20x6

01-28-2008, 11:59 PM

It's been retconned. It doesn't exist anymore. :p

No, no, I specifically remember a letter, but the words were all fuzzy for some reason...

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 12:05 AM

If a situation has been truly FUBARed, there are no benefits to any clarifications.

And do you believe the financial and creative benefits of revealing every detail now (presumably in a dense wall of text, or a dense issue that's essentially a summary) exceed those of carefully waiting until more appropriate times to reveal the important details? Plus, some stuff (What happened during the Clone Saga? How did a single Peter react differently to the Vertigo that plagued him for a few months in the late 90s?) is fairly unimportant to most readers.

You, my friend, have obviously never met a continuity freak. Exactly how does making the past make sense have no benefits? The real funny thing is that when someone asks him about the past he tells us to keep reading. Now there are problems with this. One of them could be that the issue that you might be thinking of could realistically never be brought up. And another would be that since the new creative teams have said they're not looking to the past why then would there be plot points about Spider-Man's past stories? I seriously don't believe that there is an answer, and that this was a collosal "fix" for a character that Joe Q. thought was broken. And for the people that defend Joe Q. and never listen to reason, you do understand that the last two years were all done with the "fix" in mind. And you do understand that he said that the un-masking wouldn't be retconned away(we know how that worked out) So why is it so hard to see him for his lying, double-talk, and spin.

- Have a question that I don't have a good answer for? Well, read BND and maybe we'll come up with something between now and forever! And if not, thanks for buying anyway! (Sucker.)

First off, I would like permission to sig that. This is the single biggest problem with the "keep reading" to find out what actually happened.

mikekerr3

01-29-2008, 12:05 AM

AndyinColor

01-29-2008, 01:10 AM

I am twenty years old and have been reading Spider-man off and on for quite a bit of my life. One of my favorite characters growing up (first memory of Spidey was MAXIMUM CARNAGE haha). I have been reading every single story (including Friendly-Neighborhood and Sensational) since 2001. JMS did some controversial stories, but overall they were weaved together quite well and it was an enjoyable run.

I remember the shock when Peter revealed his identity and while it was my least favorite part in JMS's run, I kept reading *cough movie tie in* Back in Black. I truly believed in the beginning of One More Day that May was going to die and that there would be a newer, older Peter Parker evolving from it.

Well, one thing that I must say is that "retcons" do happen. I mean, fuck, look at DC! I feel terrible for those poor readers. We all know that the retcon was terrible, but it is a comic: it happens. My problem in continuing is not the retcon, but rather BND.

I will admit that I bought the first three issues and feel terrible about doing so. Story is moving slowly, the writing feels forced (especially 'curses Spider-man is here to ruin our evil plan'), and this new Peter is terrible. I feel bad for him in that his Teaching, Photography, and Science (things we knew him to be great at) are also written as him being a loser at.

I am giving BND one more chance (mainly because I wish to know about Jackpot) then I will keep reading a few Marvel titles and invest the other money in to IMAGE. Reading four of their titles now and loving it.

I will keep reading about what goes on in his world here on the boards and might jump back on someday. Good night and good luck.

DaeJi

01-29-2008, 01:23 AM

Nothing I didn't expect. Basically... this whole OMD/BND thing was rushed, poorly thought out, and a complete cluster-@#$% of an idea. The BND writers are going to be playing patch up, and Joe Q is going to be playing spin-doctor. Exactly what I expected.

SUPERECWFAN1

01-29-2008, 01:30 AM

Best line in this....

Scott and Paul Frederick asked, "I find Mr. Quesada's distaste for the marriage (and divorce as a solution) to be perhaps at the root of all of the problems that 'One More Day' has spawned - that and his distinction between real-life issues and fictional characters.

"He admits that divorce is a hot-button issue. Then why not tackle it and try to say something substantive?

"Marvel went all out (some would say overboard) dealing with 9/11 and its aftermath, but divorce is too touchy?

"I grew up reading the Fantastic Four during the #140s, when Reed and Sue were talking divorce. Interestingly, so were my parents at the time, so having Reed and Sue work through it was helpful to me as a kid.

"Times have changed and divorce is more of a reality for kids than it was in the mid-'70s. Having a hero go through with it - and for a noble cause of keeping his wife from harm - and still be friends with his ex could have been a good thing for today's kids to read.

"Was that even thought about, or just dismissed out of hand?

"It seems like Marvel missed an opportunity to be socially relevant in a quiet and thoughtful way and opted for a ham-handed event instead."

JQ'S answer:
Guys, we would absolutely tackle and have tackled the subject of divorce at Marvel, I just felt that Spider-Man was the wrong character to do it with. Take a look at Hank and Jan Pym. We’ve dealt with subjects as controversial as marital abuse, however, I would never tell that story within the pages of a Spider-Man book.

Which happened years before you became an EIC at Marvel. Plus who says Peter Parker is gonna start beating Mary-Jane and abuse her ? Jesus Joe ...your just freaking reaching to not even try to tell a divorce story.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 01:38 AM

Which happened years before you became an EIC at Marvel. Plus who says Peter Parker is gonna start beating Mary-Jane and abuse her ? Jesus Joe ...your just freaking reaching to not even try to tell a divorce story.

I wonder if he can hear himself spin. He needs to be a politician. His powers of spin are too great for our ears. We are not worthy(LOL, fat chance) But, the one thing I can understand is Joe Q.'s version of Spider-Man not getting a divorce. Remember, he was never married in the first place.(I seem to remember it, but it's all blurr..........)

Sean Whitmore

01-29-2008, 01:41 AM

Plus who says Peter Parker is gonna start beating Mary-Jane and abuse her ?

You know what Mary Jane said the second time she was late with dinner?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/PeteslapsMJ-2.jpg

Trick question.

THERE WAS NO SECOND TIME.

SEAN

BlackToe

01-29-2008, 01:42 AM

Which happened years before you became an EIC at Marvel. Plus who says Peter Parker is gonna start beating Mary-Jane and abuse her ? Jesus Joe ...your just freaking reaching to not even try to tell a divorce story.

(Technically, Spider-man already hit MJ twice)
And I dont even want to read about divorce anything. Nothing good comes from divorcing two people who dont need it. I'd rather read the magic solution than some divorce crap in my comics. I had enough of that in the RL and when my parents were on the rocks and recently when my uncle tried to commit suicide because of a upcoming divorce.

It Is Inevitable

01-29-2008, 01:43 AM

You know what Mary Jane said the second time she was late with dinner?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/PeteslapsMJ-2.jpg

Trick question.

THERE WAS NO SECOND TIME.

SEAN

Spider-Sting!

Ian Boothby

01-29-2008, 01:50 AM

The difference between Superman and Spider-Man is things seemed to have an impact on Spider-Man. His girlfriend and main bad guy got killed in the same issue. His cast members could turn bad, go crazy, have children...
Peter graduated school, moved apartments, got married...
None of this could happen to Batman. There was progress with the character. It might have been slow but it's what made him different. He was the character shit could happen to and it made him more grounded, real and gave the more fantastic elements more weight by contrast.

Now that sense of progress is gone. Spider-Man got the same reboot Superman gets every few years. It makes him generic and that's something Spider-Man never was.

A side sad part of this is Peter is back to lying to his Aunt about his life. Keeping secrets from people who love you just isn't cool anymore. Stay in the closet is a shitty message for a hero to promote.

jetter_cheeze

01-29-2008, 02:29 AM

So, how would you explain Mephisto? Quite simply I would say that sometimes there are bad people out there who want to take advantage of you and sometimes they show up and do so when you are at your weakest moment. You can also say that not all decisions in life are simple ones.
But also, you do have to keep in mind that Mephisto is simply a construct of the magical spectrum of the Marvel Universe while divorce is a real and tragic fact of life that far too many kids are confronted with every day.

Its hard for me to understand the essence of the story one minute, and then Joey Q waiving the "magical spectrum" the next. There have been lots of villains turning up to ruin spiderman's day, but but any that had a mystical aspect to them never really belonged within a spiderman story. Its difficult to go with the comparison that Joey Q. tries to make.

“It” being “Chaos Magic.” While there is no explanation for Mephsito’s magic, is it any different than Doctor Strange’s or Wanda’s? Whenever they’ve done things, it seems that “it’s magic” is all the explanation fans have ever needed. So, not to be nit picky, but I don’t se the difference?

Because different types of magic has different rules to go with it. Saying "its magic" is like saying "its religion," different religions have different beliefs with a different set of guidelines to it. You wouldn't say a Christian is like a Zen Buddhist, much like you can't say that Wanda's Chaos Magic is like Mephisto's magic. You need to explain the rules of what can happen with that magic and you have to show the reaction to that magic's use on the world as well. Wanda's magic at least had a reaction on the world (onslaught, the third summers brother, take your pick) that it affected, so what would the backlash of Mephisto's magic be? Everyone forgets these facts about the marriage, but where does that energy go?

Part of the problem with the magical element is that this ISN'T A SPIDERMAN STORY. Spiderman messes with science, and science messes with Spiderman. Trying to fit magic within a spiderman story is like mixing oil and water.

You want to get a Spiderman marriage dissolution done right? Ok - Take the same story, with all the cheesy parts. But at the end of the day Spiderman has to divorce MJ because he loves her. He needs to protect her and divorcing the public image of Peter Parker and Mary Jane and letting MJ go off into her own world for awhile away from Peter does the job. He loves her enough to protect her from the world of pain that he must endure and its Aunt May getting shot that brings this reality home. Every plotline from the past 20 years still happened, and you age Spiderman enough to show the difference between the Ultimate Spiderman and the Amazing Spiderman.

It doesn't matter what you have to explain to children because children don't get it, OK? Let's face facts and understand this concept. Marvel Adventures Spiderman wouldn't exist if you thought amazing was being read by children. We are all adults, we all understand divorce. Its a concept we all understand and deal with and we can all take it seriously.

TF_loki

01-29-2008, 04:47 AM

I have paid good money to know spider-mans history. Now Joe Q says to "keep reading " to know what his history is. I already paid for that once. For us continuity types 20 years of comics turned into "What Ifs".

No, you know his history. It's what brought us to this point. What everyone does or doesn't remember is largely irrelevant. What happened happened. It must have or else Mephi unleashed a spell which even he didn't remember making because events wouldn't have led to a point where he could make the deal in the first place.

What you're supposed to keep reading for is "Why is Harry back?" & "What did happen to the organic webshooters?" and any other stories untold. Not the ones that have already been told.

Nothing I didn't expect. Basically... this whole OMD/BND thing was rushed, poorly thought out, and a complete cluster-@#$% of an idea. The BND writers are going to be playing patch up, and Joe Q is going to be playing spin-doctor. Exactly what I expected.
Given that the infamous JMS letter says he was writing OMD before BiB and the BND teams have been on this for a year already I don't think you can call it rushed.....

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 04:50 AM

No, you know his history. It's what brought us to this point. What everyone does or doesn't remember is largely irrelevant. What happened happened. It must have or else Mephi unleashed a spell which even he didn't remember making because events wouldn't have led to a point where he could make the deal in the first place.

What you're supposed to keep reading for is "Why is Harry back?" & "What did happen to the organic webshooters?" and any other stories untold. Not the ones that have already been told.

Given that the infamous JMS letter says he was writing OMD before BiB and the BND teams have been on this for a year already I don't think you can call it rushed.....

It's not rushed, but its extremely sloppy, and Marvel would look a lot better if it was rushed. It's good that you're logical, but you cannot make sense of illogical logic.

Alpow

01-29-2008, 05:09 AM

Given that the infamous JMS letter says he was writing OMD before BiB and the BND teams have been on this for a year already I don't think you can call it rushed.....

It just hasn't had the forethought put into it.

Joe isn't an idiot so he must know that nobody remembering who Spidey isn't doesn't make sense, what does Venom think now? Can Norman remember jousting with "someone" but can't remember who?
Why doesn't this cause alarm for anybody?

Joe has said people vaguely remember the unmasking, so why hasn't JJJ been posting stories like "Spider-Man is Memory Vampire", why isn't Pete interested in the fact that people remember him unmasking but not his face?

Ten minutes of thought reveals these problems, either Joe didn't put the ten minutes in or he just doesn't care; in which case he should just admit it makes no sense and that is the new Mighty Marvel way.

Mart

01-29-2008, 05:49 AM

...He says Peter wasnt deaged, yet said in another OMD interview he deliberatly illustrated the two in their mid thirties to signify their age, and that's what Peter and MJ clearly were up until the 1999 reboot and even in JMS's Romita Jr run (he illustrated a signficantly less young Peter and MJ but emulated the classic styles of the characters)

I love how open he is, but there seems to be a bend in the wind with every opinion (which unfortunatley isnt new). Yes, this is the second-guessing and unpredictable nature he brings to Marve with great success (when done properly), but he shouldnt bring it to interviews.

Oh thank goodness you pointed out the age thing; I had visions of having to go through the whole thread to see if anyone else caught Joe's suddenly 'forgetting' he'd previously said Peter and MJ were in their thirties.

And is he really saying that loads of crappy OMD plot points are going to be raised in the new continuity? That hardly makes for a clean break with the past, does it? Deal with all that malarkey and we're on a fast track to undoing Mephisto's rubbish. And how he can ignore the MJ whisper as a back door fix - come ON!

And I still can't see how Peter was responsible for May taking the bullet . . . it's hardly as if he forced the Kingpin to sic a hitman on him.

Bugaboo-X

01-29-2008, 06:11 AM

I'm disappointed that one of the questions didn't deal with how Peter could choose his old aunt over his wife.

To be brutally honest with myself, a good portion of what JQ said made logical sense. Because the underlying component in comic book appreciation is the suspension of disbelief, which is what JQ kept harping on, over and over and over again -- i.e. if we can buy into *THAT* outrageous superheroey thing (many things over the decades), then we can buy into *THIS* outrageous superheroey thing. So what's the problem, fanboy?

The glitch in that sort of thinking, though, is that this time he screwed up something I actually liked a lot. ... I didn't care about the elimination of millions of mutants; I actually believed it was time for Steve Rogers to die; it's no big thing for Tony Stark to run SHIELD. And, yes, sometimes Goblins/Magnetos/Buckys/Phoenixes/etc. are brought back to life for wonky reasons and I'm OK with that. But I really, truly appreciate Peter and MJ's marriage and everything that's been done with it over the years. I don't want it to go away on JQ's sayso. So, no, I'm not going to put up with this change and I'm not going to keep throwing my money away on the product.

Badfish40oz

01-29-2008, 06:23 AM

No amount of spin has helped me think this is anything but a huge mistake.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go read Infinity Gauntlet and remind myself that the parts with Spiderman and MJ aren't real.

bjtrdff

01-29-2008, 06:26 AM

What a shitty interview. They pretty well chose the least provocative questions possible, and Joe answered everything with a vague response, the standard company line that he's given everyone since it came out, or with 'go buy spider-man and find out'.

Here's a question:

You said that the primary reason why Mephisto was chosen to undo the marriage was to keep the last 20 years of spider-man stories in tact. Since BND, we have definitively seen that most or all of the last several major arcs did not take place. The other did not take place, nor did the SM-avengers disassembled/spider-queen arc, nor did Peter living in Avengers tower (presumably, seeing as how his new team doesn't know his ID), nor does MJ, the woman he was living with (according to the spider-man new status quo info that marvel put out).

So if all this is true, and your reason for using Mephisto has basically already been shot, why not use a more logical and less retarded explanation for the whole thing?

xnef1025

01-29-2008, 06:37 AM

This was my favorite.

But, here’s the thing, from what you’re saying here, it’s seems to me you’re splitting hairs. You can suspend belief for some things, but not others?

So what you are saying here, Joe, is that since it's fiction, we should just accept everything that happens under our suspension of disbelief? There are a lot of really crappy writers out there that just love that idea. Forget established internal logic, forget nonsensical dialog, forget staying in character. It's all explained away by suspension of disbelief. If you can't swallow it, you're splitting hairs, because it's all fiction.

Then he goes on to use House of M as an example. As if no one ever told him that story was bullcrap too.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 06:45 AM

I liked House of M.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 06:48 AM

This was my favorite.

So what you are saying here, Joe, is that since it's fiction, we should just accept everything that happens under our suspension of disbelief? There are a lot of really crappy writers out there that just love that idea. Forget established internal logic, forget nonsensical dialog, forget staying in character. It's all explained away by suspension of disbelief. If you can't swallow it, you're splitting hairs, because it's all fiction.

Then he goes on to use House of M as an example. As if no one ever told him that story was bullcrap too.

Someone probably gave him a logical explanation, but since he doesn't understand logic, I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going.........

I liked House of M.

And I liked parts of HoM, but Joe acted as though that story was universally loved.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 06:51 AM

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 06:57 AM

Where has Joe acted like anything was universially loved?

You people need to calm down with your irrational hatred of a man you've never talked too, except through interviews.

The "keep reading" complaints are pathetic.

Hey, Sean, I didn’t say those words. But, here’s the thing, from what you’re saying here, it’s seems to me you’re splitting hairs. You can suspend belief for some things, but not others? I would completely agree with you if the Marvel U didn’t have magical based characters. I mean the Scarlet Witch said “no more mutants," and magically millions of mutants lost their powers because of “it.” “It” being “Chaos Magic.” While there is no explanation for Mephsito’s magic, is it any different than Doctor Strange’s or Wanda’s? Whenever they’ve done things, it seems that “it’s magic” is all the explanation fans have ever needed. So, not to be nit picky, but I don’t se the difference?

Some of us saw the HoM magic for what it was, and we still never got around to just accepting it because "it's the only explanation we need."

And appearantly "everyone" changing their opinion of OMD/BND. That was the best. You even said you might drop it after the next arc. Or must I remind about the hippie Cyclops revelation.

Matt Linton

01-29-2008, 06:59 AM

Oh thank goodness you pointed out the age thing; I had visions of having to go through the whole thread to see if anyone else caught Joe's suddenly 'forgetting' he'd previously said Peter and MJ were in their thirties.

What he'd said before was that as One More Day went along, he purposely drew Peter and MJ older, so that by the last issue they were drawn more realistically and in their thirties. That's not the same as saying they were in their thirties before that.

And is he really saying that loads of crappy OMD plot points are going to be raised in the new continuity? That hardly makes for a clean break with the past, does it? Deal with all that malarkey and we're on a fast track to undoing Mephisto's rubbish. And how he can ignore the MJ whisper as a back door fix - come ON!

At this point he really should stop talking about OMD and just let Brand New Day stand on its own.

And I still can't see how Peter was responsible for May taking the bullet . . . it's hardly as if he forced the Kingpin to sic a hitman on him.

Peter blamed himself because May getting shot was a direct result of his unmasking and Kingpin using that knowledge to go after him and his family.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 07:01 AM

At this point he really should stop talking about OMD and just let Brand New Day stand on its own.

Quoted for absolute truth.

Matt Linton

01-29-2008, 07:02 AM

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 07:04 AM

They asked why a deal with the devil over divorce (and how parents should explain that as being better to their children), how stories still could have happened when clearly some of them didn't, how he suddenly no longer has organic webshooters, and how OMD explains Harry being back. I wouldn't call those the "least provocative questions". What should they have asked?

If he sleeps with a teddy-bear.:D

Matt Linton

01-29-2008, 07:05 AM

I'm disappointed that one of the questions didn't deal with how Peter could choose his old aunt over his wife.

The specific question wasn't asked, but Quesada answered it anyway.

What if Mephisto came to Peter and said, “Hey, that woman over there, I know you don’t know her, she’s a complete stranger, but she’s going to die from a bullet meant for you. Sucks doesn’t it? But I’ll tell you what, I can save her life. All I want is your marriage in exchange.”

How would you feel if Peter looked up at Mephisto and said, “Nah, sorry, let her die.”

I know this may seem different because the woman is Aunt May, but it’s not -- a life is a life.

Peter and MJ didn’t quit on their love, they sacrificed it to save a life, that to me is a pretty heroic story.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 07:08 AM

The specific question wasn't asked, but Quesada answered it anyway.

That was also brought up in another interview. He basically re-used an old answer, but that question is loaded, there is no correct way to answer it without looking bad in someone's eyes. But, if you want to dwelve even deeper into the question, Peter and MJ's marraige vows would hold all of the power in these situations. They made a promise to be together for eternity, no matter the obstacles. Being that they're supposed to be eternally devoted to one another, for all intents and purposes, they should never make that deal.

JoshuaCee

01-29-2008, 07:19 AM

I think I actually lost a little bit more respect for Quesada, if that's even possible. He completely dodged certain questions, gave half answers to others and didn't really validate anyone's feelings or opinions who might disagree with his.

Matt Linton

01-29-2008, 07:23 AM

That was also brought up in another interview. He basically re-used an old answer, but that question is loaded, there is no correct way to answer it without looking bad in someone's eyes. But, if you want to dwelve even deeper into the question, Peter and MJ's marraige vows would hold all of the power in these situations. They made a promise to be together for eternity, no matter the obstacles. Being that they're supposed to be eternally devoted to one another, for all intents and purposes, they should never make that deal.

Look at it this way. Peter and MJ are married. Peter's a superhero. Everyone would probably agree that he'd sacrifice his life to save someone else's, right? Well, that would effectively end the marriage, too ("until death do us part"), but he'd still do it to save someone's life.

The difference here is, it wasn't just Peter's decision to make, which he made clear. MJ was brought in, and she made the decision along with Peter. Just like many folks will go against their marriage vows and get divorced (for reasons not nearly as good as saving a life), Peter and MJ were put in the only circumstances under which they'd sacrifice their marriage.

Blader5489

01-29-2008, 07:25 AM

This was my favorite.

So what you are saying here, Joe, is that since it's fiction, we should just accept everything that happens under our suspension of disbelief?

No, he's saying that there isn't any kind of science behind magic because it's magic. How did House of M? Magic, but nobody seems to question that. How did all of those things attack the Avengers Mansion in Disassembled? Magic, but nobody seems to question that.

How does Mephisto erase the marriage and erase all knowledge of Spider-Man's identity? Magic, but now everyone wants to question that.

Pinual

01-29-2008, 07:29 AM

"Joe, I am a parent and I feel that it is far easier to explain the divorce of Spider-man to my children than Peter and his wife agreeing to a deal with the Devil. You sowed the seeds for a reasonable reason for divorce in 'House of M' and I don’t see why that wasn’t used. I read your interview and only have one simple question: Why would you use 'House of M' to sell us on Gwen and Peter being this destined family and have Peter retain those memories then use Mephisto to take away what is supposed to be this divine marriage? Do you really believe that this is a better story for me to share with my children?"

Hey, guys, hey, Thomas, yes, I do.

Of course there is more but I don't want to slam the wall-o-text into my post.
This is the reason I will not pick up a marvel title until JQ is gone. Never ever would I rather have my child think its better to sign a deal with the devil then simply admit a mistake and move to fix it.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 07:45 AM

Of course there is more but I don't want to slam the wall-o-text into my post.
This is the reason I will not pick up a marvel title until JQ is gone. Never ever would I rather have my child think its better to sign a deal with the devil then simply admit a mistake and move to fix it.

Logic wins again.

Venom

01-29-2008, 07:46 AM

I was so close to getting my question answered. At least my name was mentioned. It's better than nothing.

matthewaos

01-29-2008, 07:48 AM

Oh, the old lady get shot thing again...

What did I expect from the interview? I wanted to make me like BND and buy it. I wanted to hear something different and more honest rather his PR answers. Who cares anymore? I'll save 126 euros a year from this. There are some really great marvel or other comics, who cares for Spider-Man anymore? I liked a character who can swing on webs, now this guy for me it's dead, he was replaced by some other guy. Not interesting.

Alan2099

01-29-2008, 07:49 AM

To be brutally honest with myself, a good portion of what JQ said made logical sense. Because the underlying component in comic book appreciation is the suspension of disbelief, which is what JQ kept harping on, over and over and over again -- i.e. if we can buy into *THAT* outrageous superheroey thing (many things over the decades), then we can buy into *THIS* outrageous superheroey thing. So what's the problem, fanboy?

The glitch in that sort of thinking, though, is that this time he screwed up something I actually liked a lot. ... I didn't care about the elimination of millions of mutants; I actually believed it was time for Steve Rogers to die; it's no big thing for Tony Stark to run SHIELD. And, yes, sometimes Goblins/Magnetos/Buckys/Phoenixes/etc. are brought back to life for wonky reasons and I'm OK with that. But I really, truly appreciate Peter and MJ's marriage and everything that's been done with it over the years. I don't want it to go away on JQ's sayso. So, no, I'm not going to put up with this change and I'm not going to keep throwing my money away on the product.
I think this is really the focal point of what most of the nay-sayers have been {nay} saying. It's not that it doesn't make sense, or that it's the wrong type of story to tell, or anything like that. It fits as well as anything else has fitted. The bottom line when people go out and try nitpicking the interviews, or the issues, or back issues that haven't been addressed in 15 years, the real thing these people are saying just boils down to "I don't like it. Therefore it's wrong."

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 07:50 AM

Look at it this way. Peter and MJ are married. Peter's a superhero. Everyone would probably agree that he'd sacrifice his life to save someone else's, right? Well, that would effectively end the marriage, too ("until death do us part"), but he'd still do it to save someone's life.

The difference here is, it wasn't just Peter's decision to make, which he made clear. MJ was brought in, and she made the decision along with Peter. Just like many folks will go against their marriage vows and get divorced (for reasons not nearly as good as saving a life), Peter and MJ were put in the only circumstances under which they'd sacrifice their marriage.

That difference changes the entire arguemnent. Making a choice to end your marraige is different from dieing in the line of duty. There are no similarities between the two.

Shade 20x6

01-29-2008, 07:53 AM

First off, I would like permission to sig that. This is the single biggest problem with the "keep reading" to find out what actually happened.

Permission granted. :)

Nathorod

01-29-2008, 07:59 AM

JCurwen

01-29-2008, 08:02 AM

ZT4

01-29-2008, 08:03 AM

the real thing these people are saying just boils down to "I don't like it. Therefore it's wrong."

Once again putting words in people's mouths. I love it.:rolleyes:

It betrays the logic of the characters, the faith readers had in the characters, and what they reflected as aspects of life. Spidey, contrary to what you think, is a guy who climbs walls and his blood's a little irregular, that's it. He's a regular guy who acheives great things, with a girl who can match that and supporting casts that can't seem to understand it. That is key to his success and appeal, not the inane stuff like this and the Captain Universe incident.

Take away what draws Spidey, and you have no Spidey. You have an Avenger, which this kind of nonsense applies to daily to the point you only give a rat's ass about him if he's in an Avengers comic (I know that happened a darn lot with Captain America in the 1990s)

mikekerr3

01-29-2008, 08:05 AM

No, you know his history. It's what brought us to this point. What everyone does or doesn't remember is largely irrelevant. What happened happened. It must have or else Mephi unleashed a spell which even he didn't remember making because events wouldn't have led to a point where he could make the deal in the first place.

What you're supposed to keep reading for is "Why is Harry back?" & "What did happen to the organic webshooters?" and any other stories untold. Not the ones that have already been told......

Obviously the issue where Harry died didn't happen or all the issues with marriage as a isssue or the other. There is no way that a Single man and a married man would have reacted identically in every case over the last 20 years. The butterfly effect would magnify every change over time. So spidermans world would be much diffeent if he hadn't gotten married.

Given that the infamous JMS letter says he was writing OMD before BiB and the BND teams have been on this for a year already I don't think you can call it rushed.....

The last issue of OMD was hacked together by Joe Q and others at Marvel after they didn't like what JMS did in that issue. It was a poorly written hack job.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 08:06 AM

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 08:07 AM

Sorry, I didn't read every other questions, but I feel the need to ask:

Since Wolverine retrieves his every memory with magic related shake-ups, does Wolverine still remember everything he knows about Peter's life?

Does Wanda's gift prevents from future tackling? As I remember at the end of House of M, Wolverine regains all of his memories, on this moment Peter and MJ were married?

Wanda's magic must be more powerfull than Mephisto's magic, if not, why does Mephisto never tried to create his perfect universe, House of Mephisto?

Thanks!

Louis-Philippe Savard XXX½
Je suis dans le coma et vous êtes tous le fruit de mon imagination! L'imagination est plus importante que la connaissance!

You would think there would be an answer for this, but,IMO, I don't think there is one. Mephisto and Wanda were both used as Deus Ex Machinas. And Marvel's stance seems to be just magic. So since they both know high level magic(just throw Strange in there too)there should be no cause for concern when they use their "Deus" abilities, because there is no way to explain it. Since magic can only be found in fiction and has nothing to do with science, Marvel seems to just ignore any rules set before and use it to "fix" things.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 08:07 AM

Mister Mets

01-29-2008, 08:09 AM

That difference changes the entire arguemnent. Making a choice to end your marraige is different from dieing in the line of duty. There are no similarities between the two.The point was that if it would be characteristic of Peter to sacrifice his life for something, it would also be characteristic of him to sacrifice his marriage for the same thing.

Of course there is more but I don't want to slam the wall-o-text into my post.
This is the reason I will not pick up a marvel title until JQ is gone. Never ever would I rather have my child think its better to sign a deal with the devil then simply admit a mistake and move to fix it.Except that was Peter's only possible way to fix the mistake.

Incidentally, is there a realistic feat that any child will turn to satanism as a result of the issue?

What a shitty interview. They pretty well chose the least provocative questions possible, and Joe answered everything with a vague response, the standard company line that he's given everyone since it came out, or with 'go buy spider-man and find out'.

Here's a question:

You said that the primary reason why Mephisto was chosen to undo the marriage was to keep the last 20 years of spider-man stories in tact. Since BND, we have definitively seen that most or all of the last several major arcs did not take place. The other did not take place, nor did the SM-avengers disassembled/spider-queen arc, nor did Peter living in Avengers tower (presumably, seeing as how his new team doesn't know his ID), nor does MJ, the woman he was living with (according to the spider-man new status quo info that marvel put out).

So if all this is true, and your reason for using Mephisto has basically already been shot, why not use a more logical and less retarded explanation for the whole thing?I assume the word retarded would exclude a question automatically. As would the question being so subjective.

ZT4

01-29-2008, 08:10 AM

The sense of entitlement in this thread is sickening. Joe Q doesn't owe anyone any answers or apologies, but he graciously took the time to answer some questions people have been asking. Of course, that's not good enough for the naysayers who accuse him of dodging questions or just flat out lying. These people would bitch no matter what he said.

And the apologists are proving just as adequete at overlooking certain things and accusing us of (shock), stating opinions (yes, how DARE we feel hurt by abuse of public relations power), Joe IS a master of spin, if he wasnt, he'd sell a whole lot less comics.

As for the people complaining about his "keep reading" comment, he's not going to spoil future storylines just to satisfy you. Deal with it.

A marketing and public relations blunder like this can earn ten times more if he DID spoil certain directions of the story down the line, because it would allow the writers to earn FAR less criticism and scolding which may or may not prove to be unnecersary. It's playing dirty pool to get a laugh out of watching long-time fans scold and rant and hurts buisness.

mikekerr3

01-29-2008, 08:12 AM

Where has Joe acted like anything was universially loved?

You people need to calm down with your irrational hatred of a man you've never talked too, except through interviews.

The "keep reading" complaints are pathetic.

What pathetic is paying for answers to stories I already paided for. I don't hate Joe Q I just think he is responsible for a decrease in quality in Marvel Comics.

I paid for the comic where harry died and the one that gave Peter the Organic web shooters. I knew what happed and paid for the privledge I will not do that again.
I don't care If Joe stays or not, I just want marvel to respect the characters and continuity a little.

Continuity is essential to the suspension of disbelief necessary in Fantasy and Sci-fi.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 08:12 AM

And the apologists are proving just as adequete at overlooking certain things and accusing us of (shock), stating opinions (yes, how DARE we feel hurt by abuse of public relations power), Joe IS a master of spin, if he wasnt, he'd sell a whole lot less comics.

A marketing and public relations blunder like this can earn ten times more if he DID spoil certain directions of the story down the line, because it would allow the writers to earn FAR less criticism and scolding which may or may not prove to be unnecersary. It's playing dirty pool to get a laugh out of watching long-time fans scold and rant and hurts buisness.

What's the big damn deal about the "wait and see" "keep reading" lines?

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 08:13 AM

What pathetic is paying for answers to stories I already paided for. I don't hate Joe Q I just think he is responsible for a decrease in quality in Marvel Comics.

I paid for the comic where harry died and the one that gave Peter the Organic web shooters. I knew what happed and paid for the privledge I will not do that again.
I don't care If Joe stays or not, I just want marvel to respect the characters and continuity a little.

Continuity is essential to the suspension of disbelief necessary in Fantasy and Sci-fi.

Actually your not paying for answers you already got, that would imply the story hasn't changed. It has changed. So how you got from point A to point B is different now.

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 08:14 AM

The sense of entitlement in this thread is sickening. Joe Q doesn't owe anyone any answers or apologies, but he graciously took the time to answer some questions people have been asking. Of course, that's not good enough for the naysayers who accuse him of dodging questions or just flat out lying. These people would bitch no matter what he said.

As for the people complaining about his "keep reading" comment, he's not going to spoil future storylines just to satisfy you. Deal with it.

Guess what, as EiC of Marvel Comics it comes with the job, if you don't like the criticism that's fine, but we have opinions just like you. Am I going to say you're wrong for reacting the way you are? No, because I would be acting just like you. Everyone has an opinion and guess what, we're in a place where we can share that with everyone. If you don't like it, don't read it.

ZT4

01-29-2008, 08:15 AM

The point was that if it would be characteristic of Peter to sacrifice his life for something, it would also be characteristic of him to sacrifice his marriage for the same thing.

He gave May up in ASM 400, at her request, and when offered a chance to reclaim her soul by Traveler, he broke the crystal ball and allowed her "soul" to depart. Traveler then revealed he was talking BS, but the moment still stood as a sign Peter WOULD let her go without second thought.

Except that was Peter's only possible way to fix the mistake.

Correction, the only one presented to us by Quesada. Fans have far more intelligent outcomes. Not everything presented is gospel, especially in an industry prone to changing timelines with a punch and a wink to the devil.

Mister Mets

01-29-2008, 08:22 AM

Link. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4946249&postcount=1)

"...It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution."

"...As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word.

"...But there are some vital omissions in the interview, including the primary reason I finally threw up my hands on the book, which had mainly to do with how the resolution was handled."

And so on.

So, yeah, I assure you I'm not making "major exaggerations." JMS is very diplomatic about it, but read Quesada's comments in the first CBR interview and then compare them to JMS' comments at Newsarama. Those are two completely contradicting point-of-views, which means someone is not telling the truth.

And maybe I'm just a weirdo for wanting to know which one.
Your exagegrations...

"The day after Joe threw JMS under the bus in the last CBR interview"

"JMS wrote an email to Newsarama basically saying that Joe was lying and/or omitting key pieces of information about the whole ordeal."

JMS described it "as most probably as an oversight."

Joe Quesada was completely correct when he said "In his (JMS's) story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe’s story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married." JMS explained the reasons for his decision, leading into the "It's magic. We don't need to explain it." comment. Many fans reacting as if Joe Quesada said it in an interview (when it wasn't even explicitly attributed to him) which is a bit wrong, as there should be a difference between the reaction to what's said to fans and what's said behind closed doors. What Quesada didn't do was explain why JMS wanted to do things his way and there were few benefits of doing so.

Incidentally JMS doesn't want Quesada to comment further "I hope this will be the end of the matter."

xmanson

01-29-2008, 08:24 AM

Mister Mets

01-29-2008, 08:28 AM

You, my friend, have obviously never met a continuity freak. Exactly how does making the past make sense have no benefits? The real funny thing is that when someone asks him about the past he tells us to keep reading. Now there are problems with this. One of them could be that the issue that you might be thinking of could realistically never be brought up. And another would be that since the new creative teams have said they're not looking to the past why then would there be plot points about Spider-Man's past stories? I seriously don't believe that there is an answer, and that this was a collosal "fix" for a character that Joe Q. thought was broken. And for the people that defend Joe Q. and never listen to reason, you do understand that the last two years were all done with the "fix" in mind. And you do understand that he said that the un-masking wouldn't be retconned away(we know how that worked out) So why is it so hard to see him for his lying, double-talk, and spin.Reread my post. I never said it had no benefits (I'm careful to avoid making statements that could prove to be objectively wrong, as is your characterization of my post). I asked if the financial and creative benefits of the approach were preferable to the alternative Quesada suggested (that the details of how the world was different will slowly be revealed.)

And what if the next movie has Peter marry MJ? Instant publicity stunt, and we've come full circle (as the marraige, whilst the natural conclusion of a story you could beleive could end in marraige any moment, was a publicity stunt itself) , just as Peter and MJ getting back together occured upon the release of Spider-Man 2, which officially stamped their relationship in the films.

"Hmm, you know, what if a baby draws money? Wanna try it?"

"Yeah, we got enough complaints"
Marvel brought back Harry despite the character being killed off in the movies, so I doubt they'll be that influenced by the movies.

Matt Linton

01-29-2008, 08:31 AM

Continuity is essential to the suspension of disbelief necessary in Fantasy and Sci-fi.

Not at all. Retcons and reboots are a common device in comics. DC retconned their entire universe 20 years ago, and rebooted several heroes. At Marvel, Bucky being killed was a retcon, as was the revelation that he was actually alive. Dark Phoenix not being Jean Grey, and instead being the Phoenix-force was a retcon.

Mister Mets

01-29-2008, 08:36 AM

I want to ask if Peter would have the same reaction if may had a heart attack or soemthing. To me irt seemed that what drove him was the fact he didn't want to feel guilty, not really that she was dying. If she was just dying for some other cuase, it would be ok. That's not being a hero.I think it ties into the guilt and responsibility that are at the core of the character. Sometimes guilt is an emotion that is justified, such as when you mess up badly and a loved one is hurt, which did happen in the case of Spider-Man, who unmasked and was then unable to protect his family.

Which happened years before you became an EIC at Marvel. Plus who says Peter Parker is gonna start beating Mary-Jane and abuse her ? Jesus Joe ...your just freaking reaching to not even try to tell a divorce story. Quesada's point is that there's some material Marvel shouldn't use Spider-Man to address.

ZT4

01-29-2008, 08:37 AM

Marvel brought back Harry despite the character being killed off in the movies, so I doubt they'll be that influenced by the movies.

Organic web-shooters came from the movie too. No argument.

Quesada's point is that there's some material Marvel shouldn't use Spider-Man to address.

Yet a small seperation based on emotional stress, the closest they ever got to divorce, and something that was handled very well to the point no reader would have complained if they DID seperate because of that, was addressed.

Stop defending this man's tripe. He made a blunder that didnt need to happen the way it happened.

Alan2099

01-29-2008, 08:43 AM

Once again putting words in people's mouths. I love it.:rolleyes:
I've noticed you love it. You don't seem to stop doing it.

He gave May up in ASM 400, at her request, and when offered a chance to reclaim her soul by Traveler, he broke the crystal ball and allowed her "soul" to depart. Traveler then revealed he was talking BS, but the moment still stood as a sign Peter WOULD let her go without second thought.
Different scenario. Judas Traveler had her soul trapped in an orb and was asking Spider-man to kill somebody to free her. Instead, Spider-man lashed out and smashed the orb, freeing her.

Mephisto didn't ask Spider-man to kill anybody or do anything evil. He just asked him to give up something that had personal value and there was no orb to smash.

Correction, the only one presented to us by Quesada. Fans have far more intelligent outcomes.
Funny, I've yet to see any of them. Most of the other outcomes fans have mentioned seem to be "let the old bag die. he's old and useless anyway and peter would be better off sleeping with a hot babe," not those exact words, but often very close to them. if you're saying that is a more intelligent outcome, you have a vastly different definition of the word intelligent than I do.
Not everything presented is gospel, especially in an industry prone to changing timelines with a punch and a wink to the devil.
If it's prone to happen, why are you acting so shocked that it did?

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 08:54 AM

Funny, I've yet to see any of them. Most of the other outcomes fans have mentioned seem to be "let the old bag die. he's old and useless anyway and peter would be better off sleeping with a hot babe," not those exact words, but often very close to them. if you're saying that is a more intelligent outcome, you have a vastly different definition of the word intelligent than I do.

Did May tell Peter to let her go????? That answers some of your pro-save the old lady statements.
What would happen if May ever learned of the "deal" and the situations around it?????
Why do the "defenders" take Joe at his word when he has clearly been untruthful in the past?????
Is it so hard to believe that when an artist decides to write something that we will not see it for the utter trash that it is?????

Bugaboo-X

01-29-2008, 09:02 AM

The sense of entitlement in this thread is sickening. Joe Q doesn't owe anyone any answers or apologies ...

Nope; he doesn't owe us a darn thing. ... Then again, we don't have to keep buying his product, either.

Think of it in terms of a manager responding to customer complaints so he can stay in business, and perhaps you won't feel quite as sick. :rolleyes:

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 09:05 AM

Nope; he doesn't owe us a darn thing. ... Then again, we don't have to keep buying his product, either.

Think of it in terms of a manager responding to customer complaints so he can stay in business, and perhaps you won't feel quite as sick. :rolleyes:

Once again, the winner is logic.

Alan2099

01-29-2008, 09:05 AM

Did May tell Peter to let her go????? That answers some of your pro-save the old lady statements.
"No. It's too late for me! Save yourself!" is something heroes routinely ignore. Why should now be any different?

What would happen if May ever learned of the "deal" and the situations around it?????
Who knows Personally, I never cared for how she handled learning of Spider-man identity. So whatever I tell you on that one is probably not going to be right anyway. For that matter, judging how she's acting in the past, you probably couldn't have predicted it either, so unless it happens or we see it in a What if? We just won't know. I doubt she'd be pleased by it, but I was wrong in thinking that she'd throw a fit over him being Spider-man anyway.

Why do the "defenders" take Joe at his word when he has clearly been untruthful in the past?????
Why do you doubt his word when he's told the truth in the past? It works both ways. He's just like anybody else out there. Sometimes he's going to tell the truth, sometimes he's not going to.

Is it so hard to believe that when an artist decides to write something that we will not see it for the utter trash that it is?????
Is it so hard to see that some people's trash is another persons treasure? I mean I think your opinions are absolutely garbage, but you like them. Doesn't that say enough?

Oh, and you only need one question mark per sentence. Are you out to start a question mark shortage or something?
Pretty soon we're all going to have to start ending our questions with ampersands because you've used up all the question marks. But, I bet you'd like that, wouldn't you& ;)

Bugaboo-X

01-29-2008, 09:06 AM

What's the big damn deal about the "wait and see" "keep reading" lines?

Because we generally don't trust the guy and we doubt he has a solid plan. We get the feeling that he's telling himself to "wait and see" as much as he's telling us. It's a PR spin response that lacks content.

Jeff-X

01-29-2008, 09:07 AM

I don't know if anyone's posted this yet, if so it was probably a while ago, but I was just reading the "Life of Reilly" series and I found something interesting in part 19 that seemed straight out of what's happening now with BND.

Twenty years of continuity and significant character development - including the marriage to Mary Jane - could not simply be shunted aside and forgotten. Longtime readers could not be asked to accept that the character they followed for so long wasn't the "real" guy. The new status quo was offensive to those longtime readers, and confusing to any newcomers who happened to wander in to check out what all the hype and controversy was about.

Of course back then they were talking about Ben taking over as Spiderman, but it so strongly applies now. People are starting to look back at the Clone Saga fondly, I'm sure in a few years when BND is done with and gone people will do the same with that. Especially when I hear about how great the BND stories are, if you can get past the whole OMD thing. But still, they're not doing much now they couldn't have done without rewriting history.

Brian M.

01-29-2008, 09:09 AM

Because we generally don't trust the guy and we doubt he has a solid plan. We get the feeling that he's telling himself to "wait and see" as much as he's telling us. It's a PR spin response that lacks content.

A lot of things around here lack content...

SUPERECWFAN1

01-29-2008, 09:12 AM

Thank you Rich Johnston ...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

TOM TOM

Tom Brevoort is a Marvel Executive Editor, and has been publicly support the "Spider-Man: Brand New Day" stories in the face of fan criticism. But what did he think back on 6th October 1995? Lets find out with the power of the internet!

“Harry's dead. Really dead. Really and truly dead. We go so far as to exhume his body in the upcoming ‘Legacy of Evil’ one-shot.
“And if I ever stoop to having someone clone Harry, or reveal that it was only some genetic duplicate who died, please somebody shoot me."

If only he’d added “or brought back in a vague fashion through a deal with the devil" I think certain people would be descending on Manhattan with Uzis.

Say, I wonder if Mephisto’s spell works on Google?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha....ohhh boy .

Thank you internet for this. I wonder if Brevoort's past was retconned due to Mephisto or Joe Quesada ?:)

Noronha

01-29-2008, 09:16 AM

Thank you Rich Johnston ...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

Ha ha ha ha ha ha....ohhh boy .

Thank you internet for this. I wonder if Brevoort's past was retconned due to Mephisto or Joe Quesada ?:)

Brilliant!!
You have to send him this.

Billy Parker

01-29-2008, 09:19 AM

Yah let's shoot him! Let's all shoot him! Over a freakin' comic!

darksaint124

01-29-2008, 09:19 AM

"No. It's too late for me! Save yourself!" is something heroes routinely ignore. Why should now be any different?

Who knows Personally, I never cared for how she handled learning of Spider-man identity. So whatever I tell you on that one is probably not going to be right anyway. For that matter, judging how she's acting in the past, you probably couldn't have predicted it either, so unless it happens or we see it in a What if? We just won't know. I doubt she'd be pleased by it, but I was wrong in thinking that she'd throw a fit over him being Spider-man anyway.

Why do you doubt his word when he's told the truth in the past? It works both ways. He's just like anybody else out there. Sometimes he's going to tell the truth, sometimes he's not going to.

Is it so hard to see that some people's trash is another persons treasure? I mean I think your opinions are absolutely garbage, but you like them. Doesn't that say enough?

Oh, and you only need one question mark per sentence. Are you out to start a question mark shortage or something?
Pretty soon we're all going to have to start ending our questions with ampersands because you've used up all the question marks. But, I bet you'd like that, wouldn't you& ;)

It's fine that you think my opinion is garbage. The only reason you choose to think that is because we disagree. I'm totally o.k. with that. That's kind of the reason between arguing, debating, etc. I love the classic "spin tactic" you use by the way. The question mark thing is hilarious(and yes you've somehow found out my plot to rid the world of question marks, DAMN YOU RIDDLER!!!!!)IMHO, it was done to possibly defuse any resentment that I felt towards your comments, but it was in itself, unneccesary. At least, un-like other people, you admit when you don't have the answers.:D