Reed Richards and the Infinity Gauntlet

[MrPalen]

Obviously this post comes long after the comic in question, but anyway...

Did anyone else think the whole Illuminati Infinity Gauntlet story was pretty hackily written?

"Let's get the Infinity Gems."
"I thought they didn't work together anymore."
"SAYS WHO!"
"EXACTLY!"

aaand the gems work. Says who?? Seriously? Uh, The Living Tribunal.

Then Reed actually gets all the gems, and has the Infinity Gauntlet, which works. And we're supposed to believe that all he does is try and wish it out of existence, after which he just gives it up. That just didn't ring true with me. Gaining omnipotence should should be a much more profound experience. The Gauntlet has always been treated with the idea that you can't trust anyone with it because absolute power corrupts absolutely. For there to have been zero struggle against its seduction written into that story does not work for me. Only an impossibly pure character could do what Reed did there in the way he did it (that is, relinquish omnipotence without intense internal struggle and temptation if at all) and particularly with the way Reed has been written lately in these events as an ends-justify-the-means type guy it doesn't seem at all consistent.

This post is somewhat poorly written I grant you, it's late. Thoughts though?

[Berkey]

Obviously this post comes long after the comic in question, but anyway...

Did anyone else think the whole Illuminati Infinity Gauntlet story was pretty hackily written?

"Let's get the Infinity Gems."
"I thought they didn't work together anymore."
"SAYS WHO!"
"EXACTLY!"

aaand the gems work. Says who?? Seriously? Uh, The Living Tribunal.

Then Reed actually gets all the gems, and has the Infinity Gauntlet, which works. And we're supposed to believe that all he does is try and wish it out of existence, after which he just gives it up. That just didn't ring true with me. Gaining omnipotence should should be a much more profound experience. The Gauntlet has always been treated with the idea that you can't trust anyone with it because absolute power corrupts absolutely. For there to have been zero struggle against its seduction written into that story does not work for me. Only an impossibly pure character could do what Reed did there in the way he did it (that is, relinquish omnipotence without intense internal struggle and temptation if at all) and particularly with the way Reed has been written lately in these events as an ends-justify-the-means type guy it doesn't seem at all consistent.

This post is somewhat poorly written I grant you, it's late. Thoughts though?

Yea I'm not sure on that area, but I thought they were deactivated because when Thanos obtained the Heart of the Universe they couldn't use the gems to help the cause. But, relinquishing the power that fast and easy could have only been don by the likes of Cap.
I liked the premise of that series and would have liked to see a few more put out although the gems, beyonder, and Marvel boy were par at best.

[MrPalen]

relinquishing the power that fast and easy could have only been don by the likes of Cap.

And I would argue that the only kind of character who would be able to do that would never willingly put the gauntlet on in the first place.

[agrich]

Yeah, I didn't really care much for that issue.

Besides which, I thought it was kind of corny that it was important for Reed to assemble them onto A Gauntlet -- I think he had this special case with a spot for each gem and this big orange gauntlet. The only reason they were ever assembled onto a gauntlet in the first place was that that's what Thanos wore at the time. There was really no reason for Reed to create this big orange gauntlet to hold them or anything.

The series sucked, and this is coming from someone who generally likes Bendis.

[JoshuaCee]

The only thing I'm not clear about is when that story took place. Who has the gems right now? And why isn't Adam Warlock looking for the Soul Gem over in AC?

[agrich]

In terms of continuity, the story is the most recent appearance of the gems, so the people who have them at the end of that issue apparently still do have them. As for how Warlock lost his soul gem, we don't know. As for why he's not looking for it in Conquest, I guess 1) he's a little disoriented in that series and might not even remember that he had it, and 2) he hasn't had a chance -- he's been kind of busy in the small amount of time since he was woken up.

[roundman]

The series sucked, and this is coming from someone who generally likes Bendis.

You're right. It was utterly disappointing. The first and last issues were very good, but issues 2 (Infinity Gems) and, especially, 3 (Beyonder) were awful. They didn't make sense in regards to the established mythos, and these stories, if treated as cannon, make a serious mess of continuity.

[XPac]

You're right. It was utterly disappointing. The first and last issues were very good, but issues 2 (Infinity Gems) and, especially, 3 (Beyonder) were awful. They didn't make sense in regards to the established mythos, and these stories, if treated as cannon, make a serious mess of continuity.

The Infinity Gems issue doesn't really necessary change a whole lot. The last time we saw any of the gems was with She-Hulk, so the Illuminati having all the gems at this point doesn't really change a whole lot.

The question of Warlock and the Soul Gem is still up in the air... but that's almost more an issue for the Annihilation guys than Bendis.

The Secret Wars issue, if it's accurate, definately changes a lot of continuity. However, Bendis openly says that book is open to interpretation so there's an out there continuity wise.

[Alan2099]

Considering that they got the guantelt working and had the beyonder in the palm of their hands, I wouldn't mind if we found out this was just some sort of test created by some high cosmic to see how they would react. The explination that was given was just to dumb to be true.

[XPac]

Considering that they got the guantelt working and had the beyonder in the palm of their hands, I wouldn't mind if we found out this was just some sort of test created by some high cosmic to see how they would react. The explination that was given was just to dumb to be true.

The thing is though, they didn't even technically prove that they got the gauntlet working. They only tried using the gauntlet in unison one time, and it didn't actualy work.

Granted that probably is because the gems wouldn't allow Reed to destroy them, but nonetheless since it didn't work the gems didn't really work in unison yet. So Bendis actualy has an out there too.

[TotalWorldDomination]

But, relinquishing the power that fast and easy could have only been don by the likes of Cap.

And I would argue that the only kind of character who would be able to do that would never willingly put the gauntlet on in the first place.

I think you both underestimate the heroism of Reed Richards.

<pontificate> We are talking about the first Hero in the marvel pantheon, and the most brilliant human being that has ever walked the face of any earth in the MU (with the possible exceptions of Zombie-Richards and Doom). He's got a bigger claim on the futurism angle then even Tony dose, and it seems logical to me that he'd remember the IG and decide that the risk was too great to let anyone possess the gauntlet at all. The fact that he was going to wish it out of existence was par for the course. He's shown willingness to go to any lengths to protect his family, and the IG threatens the whole universe (a universe that his family happens to live in). I say he's even more likely to try then Cap, since cap wouldn't think far enough ahead to try and collect the gauntlet AND he wouldn't want to put it on (Power Corrupts and all that Jazz). Only Reed's brilliant and unmatched mind could actually attempt something so audacious as using the Infinity Gauntlet to destroy the infinity Gauntlet.</pontificate>

As for the actual plot, I liked it. I thought it was a well written snappy issue that had a lot of good points and set up some very interesting things for the future. Also, the Living Tribunal saying that they'd no longer work together is the old "can god create a rock so big that not even god can lift it" paradox. if the I-Gems (Coming soon from Apple) truly have infinite power, they should colletively be able to override that restriction.

[Berkey]

I think you both underestimate the heroism of Reed Richards.

.

Oh no I love Reed and the FF, it's just like someone said earlier the way he has been written as of late, he may not be as pure as he once was. I mean he tries to do the right things, or what he feels will benifit the world (42 plans idea) but even though the ends may be ideal the means were not, thus lowering his pureness and perhaps Reed being so intelliegent that he can fathom great ideas taht no other could, but knows that they couldn't ever be truley met unless certain aspects were arranged just right which could drive him to be corrupted by the power of the gems. JMO

[agrich]

Also, the Living Tribunal saying that they'd no longer work together is the old "can god create a rock so big that not even god can lift it" paradox. if the I-Gems (Coming soon from Apple) truly have infinite power, they should colletively be able to override that restriction.

Well, not necessarily. I'm pretty sure the united gems are considered to be all-powerful only in the 616 Marvel Universe, whereas the Living Tribunal serves a power that represents the multiverse -- and would thus be able to place such restrictions on the gems. (He also tells Warlock as much in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1.) No paradox if the gems' "infinite" power is only infinite within the known universe.

[ShaggyB]

Oh no I love Reed and the FF, it's just like someone said earlier the way he has been written as of late, he may not be as pure as he once was.

I think everyone who goes down this line of thought is forgetting one important thing....... WHEN.

When did Issue #2 happen in the progression of Marvel Continuity.

Illuminati is a collection of stories that happen during the course of Marvels history. Doesnt Issue #1 take place right after the Skrulls first try to conquer earth?

The only issue thats set in current time is the last issue. and its Post Mighty Avengers Arc 1 and post New Avengers going to japan and post WWH.

Reed may not be as pure as he once was but that story may have happened when he was as pure as he ever was.

[Lord S]

Obviously this post comes long after the comic in question, but anyway...

Did anyone else think the whole Illuminati Infinity Gauntlet story was pretty hackily written?

"Let's get the Infinity Gems."
"I thought they didn't work together anymore."
"SAYS WHO!"
"EXACTLY!"

aaand the gems work. Says who?? Seriously? Uh, The Living Tribunal.

Then Reed actually gets all the gems, and has the Infinity Gauntlet, which works. And we're supposed to believe that all he does is try and wish it out of existence, after which he just gives it up. That just didn't ring true with me. Gaining omnipotence should should be a much more profound experience. The Gauntlet has always been treated with the idea that you can't trust anyone with it because absolute power corrupts absolutely. For there to have been zero struggle against its seduction written into that story does not work for me. Only an impossibly pure character could do what Reed did there in the way he did it (that is, relinquish omnipotence without intense internal struggle and temptation if at all) and particularly with the way Reed has been written lately in these events as an ends-justify-the-means type guy it doesn't seem at all consistent.

This post is somewhat poorly written I grant you, it's late. Thoughts though? Just another example of the de-Starlinization that's been going on with regard to characters and stories that he created, or worked passionately on.

Other examples being the 'new' Adam Warlock, the return of Captain Marvel, Thanos' death, Moondragon's apparent death, and the dramatic re-characterization of Drax.

Marvel appears to want to remove any association they ever had with Starlin...including the Infinity Gems.

The Infinity Gems are dead to me...I don't think there's a meaningful story left to tell about them...especially in the hands of Earth's heroes, (and a Skrull now I guess, too)

Yea I'm not sure on that area, but I thought they were deactivated I think after the Rune situation, the restriction on the Gems by LT must have been removed...cause Galactus was gathering the Gems to be used in unison to forever quench him of his hunger, in 'Thanos' 1-6. No mention of LT's restriction was ever made...and it was written by Starlin himself.

[agrich]

I think after the Rune situation, the restriction on the Gems by LT must have been removed...cause Galactus was gathering the Gems to be used in unison to forever quench him of his hunger, in 'Thanos' 1-6. No mention of LT's restriction was ever made...and it was written by Starlin himself.

Not true. Galactus gathered the gems together merely to siphon off their individual power -- not to "use them in unison."

I disagree with what you see as Marvel working to insult Starlin or something. Everything I've seen the creators say suggests respect for the man's influence, and really, nothing major has been done that can't be undone. Drax is frankly more interesting now than he was when Starlin left him. Warlock's current state can be altered as easily as his previous one was. Moondragon can be brought back pretty easily if so desired. Thanos dead? Starlin himself brought Thanos back from death or apparent death once or twice.

If Marvel really wanted to remove any association with Starlin, it'd be a lot easier to simply not use the characters at all. Every 5-10 years Starlin and Marvel have a falling out over something or other, and then after a while he returns and does something with the characters he's most known for. If 5 years from now he pitches an idea for Thanos or Warlock, I seriously doubt that he'd be refused.

[MrPalen]

I think you both underestimate the heroism of Reed Richards.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea that Reed could voluntarily relinquish omnipotence. But not without significant struggle. Not without seeing him wrestling with the overpowering temptation of it - think of all the good he could do... a peaceful universe... an end to hunger... he could finally cure Ben... wouldn't he be irresponsible not to do something with this power etc.

As shown in that issue, it doesn't even phase him. He's just toooooo cool for school. Omnipotence? Pssh. That's what really makes me call the writing hacky.

[XPac]

Not true. Galactus gathered the gems together merely to siphon off their individual power -- not to "use them in unison."

I disagree with what you see as Marvel working to insult Starlin or something. Everything I've seen the creators say suggests respect for the man's influence, and really, nothing major has been done that can't be undone. Drax is frankly more interesting now than he was when Starlin left him. Warlock's current state can be altered as easily as his previous one was. Moondragon can be brought back pretty easily if so desired. Thanos dead? Starlin himself brought Thanos back from death or apparent death once or twice.

If Marvel really wanted to remove any association with Starlin, it'd be a lot easier to simply not use the characters at all. Every 5-10 years Starlin and Marvel have a falling out over something or other, and then after a while he returns and does something with the characters he's most known for. If 5 years from now he pitches an idea for Thanos or Warlock, I seriously doubt that he'd be refused.

I'll disagree with you about Warlock.

The guy "dies" because of all the deaths that happened during Annihilation. If that's his new status quo, he's effectively made useless in any major cosmic conflict. His treatment has been ridiculous start to finish.

[Apex Tech]

Obviously this post comes long after the comic in question, but anyway...

Did anyone else think the whole Illuminati Infinity Gauntlet story was pretty hackily written?

"Let's get the Infinity Gems."
"I thought they didn't work together anymore."
"SAYS WHO!"
"EXACTLY!"

aaand the gems work. Says who?? Seriously? Uh, The Living Tribunal.

Then Reed actually gets all the gems, and has the Infinity Gauntlet, which works. And we're supposed to believe that all he does is try and wish it out of existence, after which he just gives it up. That just didn't ring true with me. Gaining omnipotence should should be a much more profound experience. The Gauntlet has always been treated with the idea that you can't trust anyone with it because absolute power corrupts absolutely. For there to have been zero struggle against its seduction written into that story does not work for me. Only an impossibly pure character could do what Reed did there in the way he did it (that is, relinquish omnipotence without intense internal struggle and temptation if at all) and particularly with the way Reed has been written lately in these events as an ends-justify-the-means type guy it doesn't seem at all consistent.

This post is somewhat poorly written I grant you, it's late. Thoughts though?

Reed is smart enough to know he can't play God. That, and the fact that they almost killed themselves handling the gems earlier would put a damper on any of his bright ideas.

The series sucked, and this is coming from someone who generally likes Bendis.

Every issue has at least one redeeming moment, like Namor fighting Iron Man, or the Illuminati bitching about women.

The Infinity Gems issue doesn't really necessary change a whole lot.

The Skrulls have the Space Gem.

The Skrulls have the Space Gem.

[XPac]

Every issue has at least one redeeming moment, like Namor fighting Iron Man, or the Illuminati bitching about women.

Yeah... I agree. I think that coolest thing about that whole series was just seeing them hang out and talk about women. That was classic.

[brundlefly]

Did anyone else think the whole Illuminati Infinity Gauntlet story was pretty hackily written?


Trying to avoid the snarky "Well, of course; look who wrote it" one-liner response.... :D

Seriously, though, cosmic stories involving heavy Marvel history and continuity are not Bendis' strength, so I knew that "Illuminati" was a bad idea the moment that it was announced. And each issue that came out proved that point repeatedly, showing that he did not have a strong grasp of the material he was referencing or was trying to change/alter events in order to "leave his mark" on them. Frankly, Bendis would be better off just leaving the cosmic stories and crossover epics to those who do them well like the Annihilation team of Giffen, Abnett, et al, and sticking to his strengths (gritty, streel level crime themes), but instead he's continuing to blunder forward, attempting more cosmic, Marvel history-heavy events like the upcoming "Secret Invasion," which I'm sure will be as much of a nigh-unreadable mess as his "Illuminati" was.

[moochavelli]

I actually got he impression that Prof. X may have been giving Reed a little "mental guidance" there at the end. They cut over to Xavier at one point and he did not look exactly happy.

[agrich]

Every issue has at least one redeeming moment, like Namor fighting Iron Man, or the Illuminati bitching about women.


Well, I need more than that to say an issue or series didn't suck.

As for Warlock, XPac, I'm not thrilled either, but Conquest isn't over, and I still believe anything can be changed pretty easily. Warlock goes back in the cocoon, comes out a new Warlock. It's happened before (Starlin did it at the beginning of the Abyss series), it can happen again. The next writer who takes on the character can rewrite him, old or new, pretty easily.

[XPac]

Well, I need more than that to say an issue or series didn't suck.

As for Warlock, XPac, I'm not thrilled either, but Conquest isn't over, and I still believe anything can be changed pretty easily. Warlock goes back in the cocoon, comes out a new Warlock. It's happened before (Starlin did it at the beginning of the Abyss series), it can happen again. The next writer who takes on the character can rewrite him, old or new, pretty easily.

Since DnA have come to the conclusion (out of thin air) that Warlock uselessly dies everytime a crisis occurs causing massive death, I can definately see Warlock returning to the cocoon. Again... and again and again untill a future writer decides to completely ignore the nonsense DnA have thrown out there.

[agrich]

I'll disagree with you about Warlock. The guy "dies" because of all the deaths that happened during Annihilation. If that's his new status quo, he's effectively made useless in any major cosmic conflict.

In fairness, there probably won't be a ton of future stories with death on the scale that we're told occurred in Annihilation. That would be considered an extreme event, not something that occurs in every major cosmic conflict.

[Lord S]

I disagree with what you see as Marvel working to insult Starlin or something. Everything I've seen the creators say suggests respect for the man's influence, and really, nothing major has been done that can't be undone. What they say and what they show on panel are two different things. I see none of Starlin's influence on the 'new and improved' Adam Warlock...the man is someone totally new. Three issues into 'Conquest' and there is no mention of his past, nor any explanation of how he lost his Soul Gem...as that is now property of Bendis.

Drax is frankly more interesting now than he was when Starlin left him. Warlock's current state can be altered as easily as his previous one was. Moondragon can be brought back pretty easily if so desired. Thanos dead? Starlin himself brought Thanos back from death or apparent death once or twice. Well I'll agree that some are good, some are not so good...but the fact that they've tampered with nearly every character he's worked on tells me that they're writing his influence out of their characterization.

And Thanos was brought back from the dead only once by Starlin, I believe...Waid (or Wade?) brought him back during that god-awful 'Ka-Zar' series...thank god it was retconned.

If Marvel really wanted to remove any association with Starlin, it'd be a lot easier to simply not use the characters at all. Or another way would be to thumb their collective noses at whatever developments he's made on those characters, and go in an entirely different direction. Which is what they're doing now.

Every 5-10 years Starlin and Marvel have a falling out over something or other, and then after a while he returns and does something with the characters he's most known for. If 5 years from now he pitches an idea for Thanos or Warlock, I seriously doubt that he'd be refused. I seriously doubt he'll ever be back...as long as the current regime is in control.

[agrich]

Starlin sure wrote the end of "The End" as if he was finally killing off Thanos, right to the point of having him embrace Death ("She acknowledged me!") and all that. And then brought him back in his own series a few months later. I mean, you can't seriously believe Marvel would rather thumb their nose at Starlin than make money off a popular character like Thanos. He'll be back as soon as someone decides they want to use him and offers a sellable pitch. Maybe Giffen himself will bring him back.

Again, I'm not that worried about the gems or Warlock if somebody (maybe Starlin, maybe not) comes up with a decent pitch.

Anyway, you're welcome to your opinion, but I still disagree. Regimes at Marvel come and go, just like Starlin always has.

[anthony!]

I actually got he impression that Prof. X may have been giving Reed a little "mental guidance" there at the end. They cut over to Xavier at one point and he did not look exactly happy.

I like that idea a lot. Though, Charles pretty much spent issues 1-5 unhappy. :)

At the time I thought the cut away was foreshadowing Xavier's potential use of the mind gem to retrieve his lost powers. But that was during events in UXM. Then, I thought they were suggesting Skrully-ness.

You're answer is better, and works well in the context of the mini-series (considering Charles' speech in the Marvel Boy issue) and potential events in Secret Invasion.

[MrPalen]

I actually got he impression that Prof. X may have been giving Reed a little "mental guidance" there at the end. They cut over to Xavier at one point and he did not look exactly happy.

It doesn't seem to me as though we were supposed to get the impression that Professor X had telepathically pushed Richards into giving up the Gauntlet. I'm not really sure what the panel was supposed to show, but that doesn't strike me as being it (and if it were, it would be kind of ridiculous to think it would work and that Reed the omnipotent wouldn't notice).

Pure speculation: Maybe that panel indicates that Professor X, reading Reed's mind, knows that Reed actually did do something with the Gauntlet before taking it off. Or maybe he's just pissed.

[Slyfer]

Are you guys serious, you do realize that the Infinity Gems are literally the most powerful weapons in existence and that the bearer of the gems is literally nigh omnipotent on a level to GOD. The power to destroy and create creation at your whim (considering that you are of the highest caliber in terms of your psychic skills) . I thought it was a great Issue and placed alot of emphasis as to why the Illuminati was created.

TO STOP **** LIKE " THE GATHERING OF THE INFINITY GEMS" from occuring. The Infinity watch was dissassembled and that would mean that the gems are in no ones care. Power such as that lying around is very dangerous to all creation itself. Hence the Watchers arrival to speak to Reed about his actions.

I don't understand why people don't see this story as one of the most pivotal in the MARVEL Universe. Did any of you read the issues where Thanos had the gems and Wiped half the Universe clean. THE FRICKING UNIVERSE people. You can't count that on all the human fingers in the world.


Bendis took a bold new step there in the MARVEL Universe writing that story. The ramifications of those gems in the wrong hands are more than catastrophic for anyone to behold.

NUFF SAID!

[Apex Tech]

Are you guys serious, you do realize that the Infinity Gems are literally the most powerful weapons in existence and that the bearer of the gems is literally nigh omnipotent on a level to GOD. The power to destroy and create creation at your whim (considering that you are of the highest caliber in terms of your psychic skills) . I thought it was a great Issue and placed alot of emphasis as to why the Illuminati was created.

TO STOP **** LIKE " THE GATHERING OF THE INFINITY GEMS" from occuring. The Infinity watch was dissassembled and that would mean that the gems are in no ones care. Power such as that lying around is very dangerous to all creation itself. Hence the Watchers arrival to speak to Reed about his actions.

I don't understand why people don't see this story as one of the most pivotal in the MARVEL Universe. Did any of you read the issues where Thanos had the gems and Wiped half the Universe clean. THE FRICKING UNIVERSE people. You can't count that on all the human fingers in the world.


Bendis took a bold new step there in the MARVEL Universe writing that story. The ramifications of those gems in the wrong hands are more than catastrophic for anyone to behold.

NUFF SAID!

I never knew you posted here, Al Quesada!

[DDM]

Are you guys serious, you do realize that the Infinity Gems are literally the most powerful weapons in existence and that the bearer of the gems is literally nigh omnipotent on a level to GOD. The power to destroy and create creation at your whim (considering that you are of the highest caliber in terms of your psychic skills) . I thought it was a great Issue and placed alot of emphasis as to why the Illuminati was created.

TO STOP **** LIKE " THE GATHERING OF THE INFINITY GEMS" from occuring. The Infinity watch was dissassembled and that would mean that the gems are in no ones care. Power such as that lying around is very dangerous to all creation itself. Hence the Watchers arrival to speak to Reed about his actions.

I don't understand why people don't see this story as one of the most pivotal in the MARVEL Universe. Did any of you read the issues where Thanos had the gems and Wiped half the Universe clean. THE FRICKING UNIVERSE people. You can't count that on all the human fingers in the world.


Bendis took a bold new step there in the MARVEL Universe writing that story. The ramifications of those gems in the wrong hands are more than catastrophic for anyone to behold.

NUFF SAID!

However, you are either ignoring or are unaware that the Living Tribunal has rendered the Infinity Gauntlet powerless when used together. The Infinity Gems work separately, but few beings can actually access their true potential as Thanos & Adam Warlock; therefore, the point you're trying to make is moot.

Reed or any other character should not be able to do anything with the Infinity Gauntlet. The Living Tribunal has already made them powerless.

[agrich]

The ramifications of those gems in the wrong hands are more than catastrophic for anyone to behold.



Good point, imagine if even one of the gems fell into the wrong hands, like say a representative of a Skrull Invasion force or something.

[Rock It Raccoon]

just wanna throw in my two cents here... i think it's pretty in-character for reed to go for the gems... i mean, we're talking about the guy who found the ultimate nullifier for chrissakes. lucky for him that gamble paid off what with the whole beating galactus thing...

[Berkey]

I read on wikipedia that there is a seventh gem the EGO gem that was found in the Ultraverse. I wonder if they brought that back if that would play a role at all?

[Expletive Deleted]

I think we'll all be better off if we continue ignoring that particular crossover.

[Lord S]

Starlin sure wrote the end of "The End" as if he was finally killing off Thanos, right to the point of having him embrace Death ("She acknowledged me!") and all that. And then brought him back in his own series a few months later. The End was meant to be out-of-continuity...but then because of its popularity became in continuity...then out again. Hell if I know the status of it right now...but when it was written, it was written with the intent of being out-of-continuity, that's why he killed him.

I mean, you can't seriously believe Marvel would rather thumb their nose at Starlin than make money off a popular character like Thanos. He'll be back as soon as someone decides they want to use him and offers a sellable pitch. Maybe Giffen himself will bring him back.

Again, I'm not that worried about the gems or Warlock if somebody (maybe Starlin, maybe not) comes up with a decent pitch.

Anyway, you're welcome to your opinion, but I still disagree. Regimes at Marvel come and go, just like Starlin always has. But the difference between previous regimes and this one is that Starlin didn't leave on extremely bad terms.

[Hulk Strongest One]

Yeah, I didn't really care much for that issue.

Besides which, I thought it was kind of corny that it was important for Reed to assemble them onto A Gauntlet -- I think he had this special case with a spot for each gem and this big orange gauntlet. The only reason they were ever assembled onto a gauntlet in the first place was that that's what Thanos wore at the time. There was really no reason for Reed to create this big orange gauntlet to hold them or anything.

True. "The Gauntlet" was nothing more than a convenient way to keep all the gems together.

It also lets him shoot things out of his hand rather dramatically. :rolleyes: :)


On the positive side, Reed's met "god", so he knows the gauntlet is just another thing-a-ma-bob. It might not be that big a deal to one who's seen an even bigger picture of reality than Thanos or Galactus or even the Living Tribunal.

[filterpunk]

I'm probably in some weird, cynical minority, but I wouldn't mind it if I never saw another Infinity anything in the MU ever again. Whether it's the gems, the gauntlet, some good/bad half of Adam Warlock, it always turns into some huge, convoluted mess that leaves me wondering why writers keep dredging it all up.

[DDM]

On the positive side, Reed's met "god", so he knows the gauntlet is just another thing-a-ma-bob. It might not be that big a deal to one who's seen an even bigger picture of reality than Thanos or Galactus or even the Living Tribunal.

The Living Tribunal exists outside "reality" as we know it. The Living Tribunal can overrule Thanos, Galactus, Eternity, & Death if saw a need to maintain the magickal balance of the multiverse.

[Alan2099]

Besides which, I thought it was kind of corny that it was important for Reed to assemble them onto A Gauntlet -- I think he had this special case with a spot for each gem and this big orange gauntlet. The only reason they were ever assembled onto a gauntlet in the first place was that that's what Thanos wore at the time. There was really no reason for Reed to create this big orange gauntlet to hold them or anything.
Reed just liikes to wear villian's clothing.
You should see him in his Juggernaut helmet or White Queen underpants.

[magmer]

The Living Tribunal exists outside "reality" as we know it. The Living Tribunal can overrule Thanos, Galactus, Eternity, & Death if saw a need to maintain the magickal balance of the multiverse.

Death also exists outside the universe. Which is why she wasn't all sucked in when Thanos had the Heart of the Universe.

[Titan76]

Well, not necessarily. I'm pretty sure the united gems are considered to be all-powerful only in the 616 Marvel Universe, whereas the Living Tribunal serves a power that represents the multiverse -- and would thus be able to place such restrictions on the gems. (He also tells Warlock as much in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1.) No paradox if the gems' "infinite" power is only infinite within the known universe.
The Gems in unison as the Infinite Gauntlet have been shown to work just fine outside of the 616 universe. Warlock used them in the Living Tribunal's realm and the Mags used them in his own universe he created with the cosmic cubes. Though he didn't have the real reality gem he was still able to use the other gems in unison to stop Quasar from blowing him up with the Ultimate Nullifier.

[Berkey]

The Gems in unison as the Infinite Gauntlet have been shown to work just fine outside of the 616 universe. Warlock used them in the Living Tribunal's realm and the Mags used them in his own universe he created with the cosmic cubes. Though he didn't have the real reality gem he was still able to use the other gems in unison to stop Quasar from blowing him up with the Ultimate Nullifier.

I think in the JLA/Avengers crossover Darksied got a hold of the gems but they wouldn't work in the DC universe so they must only work in Marvel universe (anything outside 616 as long as its in the MU)

[XPac]

I think in the JLA/Avengers crossover Darksied got a hold of the gems but they wouldn't work in the DC universe so they must only work in Marvel universe (anything outside 616 as long as its in the MU)

They seemed to work just fine in the Malibu Ultraverse though... but maybe that just counts as a part of the MU since marvel bought them.

[agrich]

The Gems in unison as the Infinite Gauntlet have been shown to work just fine outside of the 616 universe. Warlock used them in the Living Tribunal's realm and the Mags used them in his own universe he created with the cosmic cubes. Though he didn't have the real reality gem he was still able to use the other gems in unison to stop Quasar from blowing him up with the Ultimate Nullifier.

I didn't say they "wouldn't work" outside the Marvel Universe, just that they weren't all-powerful outside it. As far as we know, that's true -- it's not like Warlock had power over the Tribunal's actions in WITW #1. And the instances you cite -- Warlock using them in the Tribunal's realm and the Magus using them to stop Quasar from using the Nullifier -- both occurred at times when the ruling against using them in unison was not in effect. The first instance was before that ruling even happened, and the second was after Galactus had petitioned Eternity to allow the gems to work together, and he had agreed (and the Living Tribunal allowed it).

[Archmage]

On the positive side, Reed's met "god", so he knows the gauntlet is just another thing-a-ma-bob. It might not be that big a deal to one who's seen an even bigger picture of reality than Thanos or Galactus or even the Living Tribunal.


Can I ask what u mean by that? What bigger picture of reality did Reed see?
A picture of reality greater than Thanos, Galactus or LT? I don't recall Reed ever encountering anything so monumental.

[Slyfer]

Can I ask what u mean by that? What bigger picture of reality did Reed see?
A picture of reality greater than Thanos, Galactus or LT? I don't recall Reed ever encountering anything so monumental.


Reed did meet GOD as in THEE LORD. I don't think anything could top that. Heck it was God that repaired Reed's face with an eraser and a pencil :cool:

[Archmage]

Reed did meet GOD as in THEE LORD. I don't think anything could top that. Heck it was God that repaired Reed's face with an eraser and a pencil :cool:



Well, in an earlier comic, Stan Lee met with Galactus. Is that the same?

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=5518

Also, I believe in an earlier FF comic, Stan Lee also met with Galactus.

[roundman]

The Infinity Gems issue doesn't really necessary change a whole lot. The last time we saw any of the gems was with She-Hulk, so the Illuminati having all the gems at this point doesn't really change a whole lot.

The Infinity Gems issue changes things significantly if it changes the Infinity status quo: that the Gems cannot work when brought together. The Living Tribunal decreed that. It's been that way since the early 90s.

[roundman]

I didn't say they "wouldn't work" outside the Marvel Universe, just that they weren't all-powerful outside it. As far as we know, that's true -- it's not like Warlock had power over the Tribunal's actions in WITW #1. And the instances you cite -- Warlock using them in the Tribunal's realm and the Magus using them to stop Quasar from using the Nullifier -- both occurred at times when the ruling against using them in unison was not in effect. The first instance was before that ruling even happened, and the second was after Galactus had petitioned Eternity to allow the gems to work together, and he had agreed (and the Living Tribunal allowed it).

Exactly. This has been well established AFAIK.

[MrPalen]

The Infinity Gems issue changes things significantly if it changes the Infinity status quo: that the Gems cannot work when brought together. The Living Tribunal decreed that. It's been that way since the early 90s.

Yeah but... Says who?

Exactly.

[XPac]

The Infinity Gems issue changes things significantly if it changes the Infinity status quo: that the Gems cannot work when brought together. The Living Tribunal decreed that. It's been that way since the early 90s.

Yeah, but the thing is the gems didn't actually work together. Reeds single attempt to use them all at one failed.

Reed did suggest that the gems could be used, but that was actually never proven to be the case. So the opening is there for a new status quo if someone wants to take it... but in the same breath nothing actually conflicted with the previous status quo.

[Hulk Strongest One]

Well, in an earlier comic, Stan Lee met with Galactus. Is that the same?

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=5518

Also, I believe in an earlier FF comic, Stan Lee also met with Galactus.

Ironically, no.

This god was depicted as drawing the stories that were occuring in the Marvel universe, and was, in fact, working on a Galactus story at that moment.

Of course, knowing authors, they'll have Thanos create a super-duper infinity glove and go smack this "god" around just to show what an evil character he is.

[Archmage]

Ironically, no.

This god was depicted as drawing the stories that were occuring in the Marvel universe, and was, in fact, working on a Galactus story at that moment.

Of course, knowing authors, they'll have Thanos create a super-duper infinity glove and go smack this "god" around just to show what an evil character he is.


I'm not sure what to draw from this?
In this story, Galactus broke through the 4th wall to summon Stan Lee to his starship. Silver surfer picked up Stan Lee to see Galactus... Galactus spoke to Stan Lee. How is that different from the incident with Reed Richards?


http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img004kk3.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img005yq4.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img011li2.jpg



I don't seem to understand the distinction.

[666andahalf]

About the Infinity Gems, this is from the Wikipedia page:

Eventually, the gems are stolen by the extradimensional vampire Rune and dispersed through the Ultraverse.

The god Loki enter the Ultraverse and recollects the gems. He discovers the existence of a seventh gem - Ego -, and that all seven were originally extracted from the consciousness of a cosmic being known as Nemesis. The Ego gem, possessing the Eternal Sersi, merges with the other gems to reform Nemesis and battle the Avengers and Ultraforce. Upon Nemesis' defeat the gems temporarily gain independent consciousness, and some even manifest as physical entities, although the transformation has since been reversed.

It can be assumed that because the gems re-merged into their original form (i.e. Nemesis) it somehow overturned the Living Tribunal's decree. I never read the story, so I don't know Nemesis's true origins, but we can assume that when they re-merged, it acted as a loop-hole, canceling the decree.

Is it a perfect explanation? Definitely not, but it's an explanation at least.

[MrPalen]

Yeah, but the thing is the gems didn't actually work together. Reeds single attempt to use them all at one failed.

Reed did suggest that the gems could be used, but that was actually never proven to be the case. So the opening is there for a new status quo if someone wants to take it... but in the same breath nothing actually conflicted with the previous status quo.

It's an interesting point, but I don't agree with that interpretation. First, it did seem that Reed was using some of the gems in concert throughout the comic, most obviously when Iron Man was disintegrating (you could see them flashing on his hand).

More importantly, it seems to me that achieving godhood is something that you would notice and by corollary not achieving it when you were expecting to also something you would notice. In other words, if the gems simply don't function together then I would have expected Reed to go "Oh. They actually don't work together, oh well.".

I think Reed must have felt that he did in fact have omnipotence, because otherwise as the very intelligent person that he is, he would be skeptical and wonder if the reason that his "eliminate gauntlet" wish didn't work was because the gauntlet itself didn't work. He would have considered that possibility and tested it by trying to do something else with the gauntlet.

[Arilou]

It's an interesting point, but I don't agree with that interpretation. First, it did seem that Reed was using some of the gems in concert throughout the comic, most obviously when Iron Man was disintegrating (you could see them flashing on his hand).

More importantly, it seems to me that achieving godhood is something that you would notice and by corollary not achieving it when you were expecting to also something you would notice. In other words, if the gems simply don't function together then I would have expected Reed to go "Oh. They actually don't work together, oh well.".

I think Reed must have felt that he did in fact have omnipotence, because otherwise as the very intelligent person that he is, he would be skeptical and wonder if the reason that his "eliminate gauntlet" wish didn't work was because the gauntlet itself didn't work. He would have considered that possibility and tested it by trying to do something else with the gauntlet.

Uhm, no. The Magus certainly didn't notice he wasn't omnipotent when he had a fake Reality Gem back in Infinity War.

[AdamWarlock']

Illuminati takes place shortly after the end of Slott's first volume of She-Hulk... Where Shulkie took the power gem from Titania and gave it to Reed.
One important thing is to realize that Reed had 3 gems in the issue... the three that were last seen out of Thanos' hands. Thanos gave Adam back his gem... and probably gave Pip back his (for helping out his old "pal")... and the Champion somehow got ahold of the Power gem again.

Last we saw of the Time, Mind, and Reality gems... Thanos had them... and theoretically he hid them where the illuminati went to find them. Probably with the idea to keep them away from the wrong hands. Perhaps he also hid his fake Reality gem... and if it was good enough to fool the Magus...

I'm just going to ignore DnA's little bit that Adam collapsed into his caccoon due the annihilation wave... and am going with one of two ideas... First, that the Anni-wave caused enough death that it gave the gem enough power to overpower Adam and force him into the cacoon... which Reed opened and took the gem during Adam's gestation... or Second, the idea that Reed somehow wounded Adam and then stole the gem... forcing him into his cacoon to somehow survive with most of his soul now missing... And Reed probably took the Space gem by force from Pip on Titan. Neither Adam or Pip would suspect Reed's intentions till it was too late... (well Adam might...)

And I have to say i'm of the opinion the Gems weren't working in unison when Reed tried to use them... and thats why nothing happened. As good a guy as Reed is... He's had problems with power and doing the right things before (he's not even pure enough to lift Mjolnar)... Others know this... and Xavier may have been nudging Reed to put the gauntlet down as Reed was taking a bit of extra time there holding it... trying to get it to work... but it didn't... so he put it down.

[Lord S]

I do hope Adam Warlock (new and 'improved' I guess) plays a role in any new story with the Infinity Gems. Everyone is speculating that the Gems will play a role in the Skrull Invasion, and by then I hope they improve Adam's characterization.

[agrich]

One important thing is to realize that Reed had 3 gems in the issue... the three that were last seen out of Thanos' hands. Thanos gave Adam back his gem... and probably gave Pip back his (for helping out his old "pal")... and the Champion somehow got ahold of the Power gem again.

Last we saw of the Time, Mind, and Reality gems... Thanos had them... and theoretically he hid them where the illuminati went to find them.

This is not true. All but the soul gem were "scattered to the far distant corners of the heavens" in Thanos 6.

[Cthulhudrew]

Uhm, no. The Magus certainly didn't notice he wasn't omnipotent when he had a fake Reality Gem back in Infinity War.

Arilou for the win!!!

:)

[Cthulhudrew]

One important thing is to realize that Reed had 3 gems in the issue... the three that were last seen out of Thanos' hands. Thanos gave Adam back his gem... and probably gave Pip back his (for helping out his old "pal")... And Reed probably took the Space gem by force from Pip on Titan. Neither Adam or Pip would suspect Reed's intentions till it was too late... (well Adam might...)

As Agrich points out, 5 of the 6 gems were scattered at the end of the Samaritan arc of Thanos. Further to that, Pip has seemingly never gotten the Space Gem back- he didn't/doesn't need it any longer to teleport. Thanos remarked upon this as far back as (IIRC) Infinity Abyss, when he comments that Pip's exposure to the Space Gem's radiation has affected him permanently to the point that he is now able to teleport without it. (It also might have been in Thanos: The End, which is kinda/sorta in continuity, much in the way that the last 20 years of Spider-Man/pre-Mephisto are.)

(Personally, I'd say it either affected him differently than most either due to the strange mutagenic potion that gave him his trollish form, some lingering wish he'd made when he was in control of the Cosmic Egg, or else- perhaps- some symbiotic relationship with the gem similar to that of Adam and the Soul Gem. Or maybe a gift left over from Adam's godhood days. In any case...)

[MrPalen]

Uhm, no. The Magus certainly didn't notice he wasn't omnipotent when he had a fake Reality Gem back in Infinity War.

There is a large difference between having almost unlimited power and having no power. Magus was fooled because he had five of the gems working together, which is close enough to omnipotence for someone who's never experienced the real thing.

The argument being put forth is that the gems in Reed's possession didn't work at all, which is not in any way analagous.

You also didn't address the point that Reed appears to be using the gems that he has together throughout the issue.

But anyway, my original point with this thread was to point out what I consider to be some pretty bad/hacky writing. For those of you who want to argue the "well the gems just didn't work together" point, don't you then have to agree that Reed (who as a character is about a million times smarter than you) would have thought of that? And wouldn't he test that idea out? He would surely want to know for certain whether or not the gauntlet works so he would know how much he needed to worry about someone else assembling them.

[AdamWarlock']

This is not true. All but the soul gem were "scattered to the far distant corners of the heavens" in Thanos 6.

As Agrich points out, 5 of the 6 gems were scattered at the end of the Samaritan arc of Thanos. Further to that, Pip has seemingly never gotten the Space Gem back- he didn't/doesn't need it any longer to teleport. Thanos remarked upon this as far back as (IIRC) Infinity Abyss, when he comments that Pip's exposure to the Space Gem's radiation has affected him permanently to the point that he is now able to teleport without it. (It also might have been in Thanos: The End, which is kinda/sorta in continuity, much in the way that the last 20 years of Spider-Man/pre-Mephisto are.)

(Personally, I'd say it either affected him differently than most either due to the strange mutagenic potion that gave him his trollish form, some lingering wish he'd made when he was in control of the Cosmic Egg, or else- perhaps- some symbiotic relationship with the gem similar to that of Adam and the Soul Gem. Or maybe a gift left over from Adam's godhood days. In any case...)


"scattered to the far distant corners" can mean pretty much anything in a comic. Yes I realize that we were not shown Pip being given back the Space Gem specifically... but the location between Pip's toes could easily be on of those "distant corners"... As it should be one of the more difficult ones to find. If Thanos didn't give it to Pip... Pip could easily have gone chasing it and retrieved it himself with his new powers... And probably would as it would augment his new abilities possibly even more. Anyway Pip having the gem makes the most sense for explaining how Reed has it in the beginning of the issue. Especially with him hanging out on Titan when he isn't out and about with Adam or Thanos.

[agrich]

I'm not sure why you think it makes more sense that Reed took the gem from Pip than merely locating it where it had been scattered to. Reed says in the issue that the gems "talk" to each other, and he could use one -- the one She-Hulk gave him -- to locate the rest. Imagining scenarios of Thanos locating them and hiding them or Pip finding it and it then being taken from him simply isn't necessary.

[Arilou]

There is a large difference between having almost unlimited power and having no power. Magus was fooled because he had five of the gems working together, which is close enough to omnipotence for someone who's never experienced the real thing.

The argument being put forth is that the gems in Reed's possession didn't work at all, which is not in any way analagous.

You also didn't address the point that Reed appears to be using the gems that he has together throughout the issue.

But anyway, my original point with this thread was to point out what I consider to be some pretty bad/hacky writing. For those of you who want to argue the "well the gems just didn't work together" point, don't you then have to agree that Reed (who as a character is about a million times smarter than you) would have thought of that? And wouldn't he test that idea out? He would surely want to know for certain whether or not the gauntlet works so he would know how much he needed to worry about someone else assembling them.


Ah, my point was that having the five gems working separately still is a pretty hefty dose of power. Including the capacity to rewrite reality (as Thanos did to bring Mar-Vell temporarily back to life)

[MrPalen]

Ah, my point was that having the five gems working separately still is a pretty hefty dose of power. Including the capacity to rewrite reality (as Thanos did to bring Mar-Vell temporarily back to life)

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3254/infinitywarpanelgc4.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=infinitywarpanelgc4.jpg)

It's shown in Infinity War that when the Living Tribunal's ruling is in effect, the gems don't work at all when they are together. You can't even use them individually.

You can see the full page here: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6461/infinitywarzx0.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=infinitywarzx0.jpg)

Important bits transcribed:

Warlock has just gathered all the Infinity Gems together.
WARLOCK: It's not working! The power is not coming to me!
THANOS: It must have something to do with The Living Tribunal's ruling you were telling me about.
WARLOCK: His judgement is obviously keeping the gems from working in unison.
MOONDRAGON: Working period. Try as I might, I can't raise any kind of psychic response from the Mind Gem.
WARLOCK: It would appear that they shut down completely when brought together.

In the Illuminati issue, Reed is very clearly shown to be using the gems he has at the very least individually if not in unison. It seems to me this should put the "the gems don't work" argument to bed. In Bendis's mind, it seems obvious that the gems do in fact work.

Edit: I mean, I suppose Bendis could just be ignoring all of this as he seems to be ignoring the validity of the Tribunal's judgement. Any way you slice it though, you end up with bad writing:

If the gems do work, then it's bad characterization to suggest Reed is so perfect and pure as to not be phased in the least by omnipotence or its temptations and to relinquish it so easily. It's also bizarre to simply ignore the ruling of disharmony.

If the gems don't work, then it's bad characterization to suggest that Reed is so stupid as to not consider that this could be the reason his wish didn't work and that he wouldn't test this before passing out the gems. Also, as he clearly is using some of the gems throughout the issue this contradicts the established fact that the gems cease to function when brought together.

I'm a Bendis fan by the way. I thought Powers and Daredevil were brilliant.

[XPac]

There is a large difference between having almost unlimited power and having no power. Magus was fooled because he had five of the gems working together, which is close enough to omnipotence for someone who's never experienced the real thing.

The argument being put forth is that the gems in Reed's possession didn't work at all, which is not in any way analagous.

You also didn't address the point that Reed appears to be using the gems that he has together throughout the issue.

But anyway, my original point with this thread was to point out what I consider to be some pretty bad/hacky writing. For those of you who want to argue the "well the gems just didn't work together" point, don't you then have to agree that Reed (who as a character is about a million times smarter than you) would have thought of that? And wouldn't he test that idea out? He would surely want to know for certain whether or not the gauntlet works so he would know how much he needed to worry about someone else assembling them.

Honestly no. Once he realized he couldn't destroy them, I think he wanted to get the gems as far away from each other as possible.

And from the writers perspective, it creates a scenario where others can use the gems if they choose, again without directly conflicting with the previous status quo. I don't consider it hack writing at all... I consider it the best way to make them workable toys in the toy box again. It allows for options either way. Would the better option have been to show that they don't work? Or that they did? One is the retcon, while the other offers a flat out boring story.

[Arilou]

It's shown in Infinity War that when the Living Tribunal's ruling is in effect, the gems don't work at all when they are together. You can't even use them individually.

That is contradicted later on though (Thanos uses the Infinity Gem to briefly restore Mar-Vell to life in an issue of Infinity Watch.

One possibility is that the "First Ban" (from the end of IG until the gems are restored to potency for IW) is different from the "Second ban" (IE: once they are prevented from working in unison again at the end of IW)

And uh... Moonie has used her Mind Gem between IG and IW, certainly? So that statement seems to be an anomaly itself (considering she was GIVEN the gem i the first place AFTER the ban was put in place)

[MrPalen]

That is contradicted later on though (Thanos uses the Infinity Gem to briefly restore Mar-Vell to life in an issue of Infinity Watch.

One possibility is that the "First Ban" (from the end of IG until the gems are restored to potency for IW) is different from the "Second ban" (IE: once they are prevented from working in unison again at the end of IW)

And uh... Moonie has used her Mind Gem between IG and IW, certainly? So that statement seems to be an anomaly itself (considering she was GIVEN the gem i the first place AFTER the ban was put in place)

No, you're misunderstanding the issue. Have a look at the page scans in my post and/or re-read the transcription. It shows that when the gems are brought together they shut down. They still work on their own, but only alone. So you couldn't have all of the gems and use one at a time for example.

[MrPalen]

Honestly no. Once he realized he couldn't destroy them, I think he wanted to get the gems as far away from each other as possible.

And from the writers perspective, it creates a scenario where others can use the gems if they choose, again without directly conflicting with the previous status quo. I don't consider it hack writing at all... I consider it the best way to make them workable toys in the toy box again. It allows for options either way. Would the better option have been to show that they don't work? Or that they did? One is the retcon, while the other offers a flat out boring story.

Well, it's already a retcon (or at least ignorecon) that Reed is able to use any of the gems at all once they are brought together. If Bendis wants to change the status quo of the gems, okay, but I need something better than:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4705/illuminatipanelnl4.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=illuminatipanelnl4.jpg)
PROF X: Black bolt says he was led the Infinity Gems could no longer work together in unison.
REED: And I say to him: Says who?
NAMOR: Exactly.

[XPac]

Well, it's already a retcon (or at least ignorecon) that Reed is able to use any of the gems at all once they are brought together. If Bendis wants to change the status quo of the gems, okay, but I need something better than:

PROF X: Black bolt says he was led the Infinity Gems could no longer work together in unison.
REED: And I say to him: Says who?
NAMOR: Exactly.

Were they actually used when they were brought together?

[agrich]

I think the odds are that Bendis simply didn't care about that particular bit of continuity. (I'm also generally a Bendis fan, even though I thought this particular series sucked.) There were no doubt far fewer of us who read it and were annoyed that the ending of Infinity War was disregarded than those who read it and said, cool, Infinity Gauntlet!

[MrPalen]

Were they actually used when they were brought together?

Well, throughout the issue as Reed goes from three gems to six he is shown doing things with them, beginning with having the three gems in his possession show him where the others are.

[XPac]

Well, throughout the issue as Reed goes from three gems to six he is shown doing things with them, beginning with having the three gems in his possession show him where the others are.

Maybe the rule is just that you can't use all 6 at once. The LT wasn't incredibly thorough in his explanation, and frankly even if there's a retcon there it's pretty minor.

Plus, we've technically seen the gems already used in unison anways. They were brougth together in the Ultraverse. Perhaps the rules simply didn't apply in another universe... but be that as it may, there is nonetheless a precedent for using the gems together after the LT's initial ruling. Until that is retconned or explained, in theory any future writer would likely be justifed in going with or ignoring the edict because it was already ignored.

[MrPalen]

Maybe the rule is just that you can't use all 6 at once. The LT wasn't incredibly thorough in his explanation, and frankly even if there's a retcon there it's pretty minor.

We know that's not it, because in the scene I showed from Infinity War, Adam Warlock didn't have all six gems. His Reality Gem was a fake. Maybe the rule is just that five or greater shuts them down but four or fewer doesnt...? ;) And again, don't you think Reed would notice if his gems were all working up until the point he reached five or six and then they all turned off?

Plus, we've technically seen the gems already used in unison anways. They were brougth together in the Ultraverse. Perhaps the rules simply didn't apply in another universe... but be that as it may, there is nonetheless a precedent for using the gems together after the LT's initial ruling. Until that is retconned or explained, in theory any future writer would likely be justifed in going with or ignoring the edict because it was already ignored.

It seems safe to say that whole thing is being ignored as the "seventh" gem, Ego, is not mentioned. Mind you I didn't read that story... "Ultraverse"? Malibu? No thanks.

But anyway, it seems pretty clear that the gems do work in this story regardless of previous stories. The suggestion to the contrary was brought up as a defense for Reed's characterization. I really don't think that's what Bendis was going for, but I argue that either way, Reed didn't react in a way that makes sense. You may or may not agree, but I'm not sure there's much more to be said on this topic.

[XPac]

We know that's not it, because in the scene I showed from Infinity War, Adam Warlock didn't have all six gems. His Reality Gem was a fake. Maybe the rule is just that five or greater shuts them down but four or fewer doesnt...? ;) And again, don't you think Reed would notice if his gems were all working up until the point he reached five or six and then they all turned off?



It seems safe to say that whole thing is being ignored as the "seventh" gem, Ego, is not mentioned. Mind you I didn't read that story... "Ultraverse"? Malibu? No thanks.

But anyway, it seems pretty clear that the gems do work in this story regardless of previous stories. The suggestion to the contrary was brought up as a defense for Reed's characterization. I really don't think that's what Bendis was going for, but I argue that either way, Reed didn't react in a way that makes sense. You may or may not agree, but I'm not sure there's much more to be said on this topic.

The Malibu thing is ignored to a point... but I think it still have to be considered in-continuity since that's the Malibu stuff was the reason the Infinity Watch lost the gems in the first place.

So if the gems were proven capable of working together in unison after LT's edict, then one could argue Bendis was ignoring continuity by NOT showing that they can't work together since technically they've already shown that they can. Or Bendis could have ignored the Ultraverse stuff and say they can work... either way can arguably be justified.