Why is Black Widow an Avenger?

[Tyr]

I'm a fan of Black Widow, she was one of the reasons I decided to pick up Mighty Avengers #1. But now I have to stop and think, apart from the fact that Bendis doesn't have her doing much, why is she an Avenger?

It seems to me that the Avengers are who you call in when you want to Hulk smash a problem. Black Widow is somone you call in to sneak up behind the problem and snap its neck. So why is she a member of the Avengers? To me putting her on the Avengers roster is like putting a sniper in a tank crew. Is there something here I'm not getting?

[CaptainCanada]

They explained this in #1; the team needs variety.

[Bulky Brent]

I'm a fan of Black Widow, she was one of the reasons I decided to pick up Mighty Avengers #1. But now I have to stop and think, apart from the fact that Bendis doesn't have her doing much, why is she an Avenger?

Doesn't do much? She did quite a bit in the last 4 issues assuming temporary command of the S.H.I.E.L.D when Tony Stark was presumed dead. It was either her or Daredevil but they decided Daredevil was too much of a hassle and that she is more of an asset to the team. I have a feeling she will be around for a while.

[agrich]

Because Frank Cho was drawing it, and they wanted to get as many sexy women on the team as possible.

With Cho gone, Widow will probably be written out before too long. She works a lot better in Daredevil and Captain America anyway.

[XPac]

Given how closely the Avengers and SHIELD work together at this point, it actually does make sense. She's also got a good tactical mind.

It's almost like asking why is Batman on the Justice League.

[rogerio]

because she is very very hot!:)

Seriously, Black Widow is one of the best Marvel's female characters. She has no powers but she was Avengers' leader for a while.

[matthewaos]

Since they don't have Captain America, they need someone who is more tactical, and knows how to organize a military mission. They had also to think who is registered and who is not. I didn't get the DD comment, who would they make him register?

[DDM]

Because Frank Cho was drawing it, and they wanted to get as many sexy women on the team as possible.

With Cho gone, Widow will probably be written out before too long. She works a lot better in Daredevil and Captain America anyway.

I get a horrible vision of Beevis & Butthead talking about comic book women: --"Cleavage, yeah!"
--"Big boobies!"
--"Pop!" :rolleyes:

I really don't like women being turned into sex objects once more.

Does this mean Brian Michael Bendis & Frank Cho is the new Beevis & Butthead? :evilsmile

[dreyga2000]

To sabatoge them from within for she is a Skrull....

[Tyr]

With Cho gone, Widow will probably be written out before too long. She works a lot better in Daredevil and Captain America anyway.

She also seems to be written a lot better in Captain America, but that could just be me.

[XPac]

She also seems to be written a lot better in Captain America, but that could just be me.

Though I do agree she's written well in Captain America, I think Bendis writers her pretty well. She's coming off as both one of the most bad @$$ and hottest chicks in the MU.

[Tyr]

Given how closely the Avengers and SHIELD work together at this point, it actually does make sense. She's also got a good tactical mind.

It's almost like asking why is Batman on the Justice League.

Yeah, but then again the Avengers already have Iron Man.

[moochavelli]

She's there because Tony loves her..... you know, when neither one's real busy or anything. ;)

[XPac]

Yeah, but then again the Avengers already have Iron Man.

Stark is smart, but he's not necessarily a great field leader or battle tactician. That's why Cap was calling the shots even when Iron Man was around. It's not exactly the same thing.

Batman is kind of a combination of Captain America and Iron Man (though he's a notch below both in those areas).

[Push You Down]

....you are guys are all talking like she's NEW on the team.

She was leader for a long time.

Even then I didn't quite know why she was on the team. She seemed completely outclassed when the Avengers were taking on large scale and cosmic threats.

[Tyr]

....you are guys are all talking like she's NEW on the team.

She was leader for a long time.

Even then I didn't quite know why she was on the team. She seemed completely outclassed when the Avengers were taking on large scale and cosmic threats.

Yeah, shes a great Shield agent and a good choice when you need to do covert stuff, but I just don't see the Avengers as all that covert.

I mean the Avengers are the guys you call in when Dr Doom tries to take over the world again, Galactus is trying to eat the world again or when Loki gets bored. Black Widow is someone you call when when trying to deal with Red Skull, The Hand, Hydra, Mr Evil Potato Head and his army of Beekeepers, or other less then open threats.

[Beamish]

As for Black Widow being outclassed by cosmic threats, so are many, many fellow Avengers - Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Hellcat, Swordsman, Falcon, Black Knight, Moon Knight, Two-Gun Kid, Echo...

[claimtosubclaim]

Though I do agree she's written well in Captain America, I think Bendis writers her pretty well. She's coming off as both one of the most bad @$$ and hottest chicks in the MU.

Bru writes her quite well, but Bendis' depiction of her in the Daredevil arc 'The Widow' will always be my favorite.

[BYC]

She's on the team because it makes sense. Comic books doesn't always make sense, but having a person like her really helps the team. It's better to have her around just in case they need her, as opposed to calling her in. Even worse, if they are in a situation where they can't contact her, they're in big trouble. And it's not like she has anything else to do. She clearly stated she hated training the troops.

[XPac]

She's on the team because it makes sense. Comic books doesn't always make sense, but having a person like her really helps the team. It's better to have her around just in case they need her, as opposed to calling her in. Even worse, if they are in a situation where they can't contact her, they're in big trouble. And it's not like she has anything else to do. She clearly stated she hated training the troops.

Yeah.

In the first issue I think it was Carol that said the team should be just a collection of the big guns, but it was Tony that said it needs a little bit of everything.

People like Captain America and Batman have proven for decades that it's about more than just power even in powerhouse teams like the JLA and Avengers. In fact one can argue that despite being the weakest members, Cap and Batman are the most important members of either team.

[RodeoWearden]

She's just there, no matter how out of place it seems. You just cant get rid of her. I think she's always on the team in case the writers ever have a story arc that requires a traitor. Then you can just pin it on the Widow and be done with it.

[XPac]

She's just there, no matter how out of place it seems. You just cant get rid of her. I think she's always on the team in case the writers ever have a story arc that requires a traitor. Then you can just pin it on the Widow and be done with it.

She didn't seem out of place in the first arc to me. Once Stark was taken over, Black Widow took charge of SHIELD on the Hellicarrier.

[rogerio]

Bru writes her quite well, but Bendis' depiction of her in the Daredevil arc 'The Widow' will always be my favorite.

I think Bendis' Black Widow is very dependent of Daredevil. She is always crying for Matt's attention.
just my opinion, of course.

[claimtosubclaim]

I think Bendis' Black Widow is very dependent of Daredevil. She is always crying for Matt's attention.
just my opinion, of course.

I wouldn't say 'crying' for it. She tries to seduce him to get what she wants (in the case of The Widow arc, to stay at his place and attract media attention). At the same time, they have a rapport of being the kind of ex-lovers who are still good friends because they really did get along. I loved the scene where they pulled off a team attack that they both remembered from the old days when they fought crime together. And the scene where he asked her to pretend to be a dumb foreign supermodel in order to misdirect Jigsaw and his men when they broke in to Matt's place.

[XPac]

I think Bendis' Black Widow is very dependent of Daredevil. She is always crying for Matt's attention.
just my opinion, of course.

She's a russian spy. It's hardwired into her character mold that she regularly tries to seduce american cowboys with her feminine wiles.

[Hulkamaniac]

I thin k they have her on the team so they could write that horrid story in Giant Sized Avengers #1 where the three female on the team all hung out in their bathing suits, Pleasing all those teenage fanboys out there I'm sure :p

[Apex Tech]

To sabatoge them from within for she is a Skrull....

What he said.

[filterpunk]

I think Bendis' Black Widow is very dependent of Daredevil. She is always crying for Matt's attention.
just my opinion, of course.
I wouldn't say she's crying for his attention, as they would indicate that she has some sort of dependency on Matt. If anything, she knows he'll melt if she so much as waggles a finger and on occasion, uses that to her advantage.

In any case, she's one of my favorite characters, but doesn't fit the Avengers world at all. She's always been more of a street smart, black ops kind of girl and the idea of her being this visible media figure completely invalidates her character. At the very least, I'd like to see her pop up in Daredevil, though I still prefer the solo series that Greg Rucka and Richard K. Morgan did.

[Joe Franklin]

Black Widow is a small arms weapons master just like Hawkeye is, and would anybody question Hawkeye's roster spot if he were on the Mighty Avengers roster? Just asking?:confused:

[matthewaos]

I thin k they have her on the team so they could write that horrid story in Giant Sized Avengers #1 where the three female on the team all hung out in their bathing suits, Pleasing all those teenage fanboys out there I'm sure :p

Oh. That will teach me not to get this one...

[DDM]

She's a russian spy. It's hardwired into her character mold that she regularly tries to seduce american cowboys with her feminine wiles.

Correction: Natasha is a former Soviet Union spy. She's an ex-Communist. "Soviet Union" has different connotations when you simply say "Russian." She defected to the United States & eventually became a naturalized citizen of the United States of America.

[Pyro]

I want to see the Black Widow partner up with Spider-Woman on some team misson. That would be awesome.

[XPac]

I want to see the Black Widow partner up with Spider-Woman on some team misson. That would be awesome.

I want to see her partner up with Spider-Man. She obviously has no respect for him... and he needs to learn some.

He's one of the best of the best, both as a person and as a hero. It's almost a shame that it's this simple fact is one of the best kept secrets in the MU hero community.

[Pyro]

I want to see her partner up with Spider-Man. She obviously has no respect for him... and he needs to learn some.

He's one of the best of the best, both as a person and as a hero. It's almost a shame that it's this simple fact is one of the best kept secrets in the MU hero community.I blame OMD. Sorry, but I couldn't not say it.

[rogerio]

I want to see the Black Widow partner up with Spider-Woman on some team misson. That would be awesome.
we'll see BW and SW together in Brian Bendis' Spider Woman series.
in 2014, I guess...:)

[CaptainCanada]

Correction: Natasha is a former Soviet Union spy. She's an ex-Communist. "Soviet Union" has different connotations when you simply say "Russian." She defected to the United States & eventually became a naturalized citizen of the United States of America.
Given the sliding timescale, she continued to be on their side past the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Shellhead]

Given the sliding timescale, she continued to be on their side past the fall of the Soviet Union.

Right. Without the sliding timescale, she would be at least 60 years old.

[Nevets F]

She is a lot older than she appears, btw. That has been stated several times before.

[Siddon]

Two reasons

Reason 1

Marvel wants to keep it's classic heros on the Avengers roster, Black Widow has been around since the 70's as has Ms. Marvel, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-woman, Dr. Strange, Spider-man, and Wolverine to see which characters work or don't.

Reason 2

She is a skrull and is destroying the Avengers from with in. (as is WASP)

[claimtosubclaim]

She is a skrull and is destroying the Avengers from with in. (as is WASP)

Janet, or all the White Anglo Saxon Protestants? That leaves Ares as the only non-Skrull on Mighty Avengers. The Secret Invasion tie-in will see a title change to Mighty Avenger.

[Jmacq1]

She is a lot older than she appears, btw. That has been stated several times before.

Yep, she got a Russian variation of the Super-Soldier serum, which slowed down/arrested her aging.

[Knightmare10880]

Yep, she got a Russian variation of the Super-Soldier serum, which slowed down/arrested her aging.

Has it ever been stated how "old" Natsha is supposed to be? I've her conflicting accounts some say she is supposed to be in her 50's while others say she's in her late 70's early 80's. Wasn't she supposed to have been a little girl during World War 2, or has that been phased out of continuity?

[rogerio]

Two reasons
She is a skrull and is destroying the Avengers from with in. (as is WASP)

man....I really hope BW is not a Skrull. I am still blaming Brian Bendis for Yelena Belova's death.:mad:

[matthewaos]

Yep, she got a Russian variation of the Super-Soldier serum, which slowed down/arrested her aging.

I thought it was the same stuff Nick Fury was drinking.

[sHayden]

I thought it was the same stuff Nick Fury was drinking.

Nick Fury drinks hard liquor and plenty of it...at seedy strip clubs!

Anyways, BW is basically a 'checks and balances' type character like people have been saying about Cap. or Batman over in JLA.
Widow may not be able to dead lift a bus or destroy a building with an energy blast but she has other traits that heroes who have aforementioned powers don't.
Though this is a marvel forum/post I'm going to use a JLA analogy.
Batman -- Cunning
Superman -- Tunnel vision

There's a reason why BW is useful. She has a different thought process/approach than a hero who can just smash their way through a problem. You never know, tactics like that can come in handy, even against a threat like Galactus.

[CaptainCanada]

Has it ever been stated how "old" Natsha is supposed to be? I've her conflicting accounts some say she is supposed to be in her 50's while others say she's in her late 70's early 80's. Wasn't she supposed to have been a little girl during World War 2, or has that been phased out of continuity?
I assume they're keeping the WWII stuff, since if you're going to do the "forever young" bit, you might as well go whole-hog.

[XPac]

I assume they're keeping the WWII stuff, since if you're going to do the "forever young" bit, you might as well go whole-hog.

I think inevitably they're just going to have to retcon her to having taking some sort of anti-agine serum (sort of like Fury).

I think they'll want her history tied to the Cold War to some degree, and obviously that would be harder to do as marvel's time slide continues.

[Tyr]

I thin k they have her on the team so they could write that horrid story in Giant Sized Avengers #1 where the three female on the team all hung out in their bathing suits, Pleasing all those teenage fanboys out there I'm sure :p

Oh come on now, it wasn't that bad, it had some fun short stories, including a few Jarvis ones.


I want to see the Black Widow partner up with Spider-Woman on some team misson. That would be awesome.

I was under the impression that those two don't really like each other though.


man....I really hope BW is not a Skrull. I am still blaming Brian Bendis for Yelena Belova's death.:mad:

I hope not, and if she is, I'd hate to see what that would do to Brubakers plans for Black Widow. :(

Here's a question, do you think that Natalia would have a Russian accent when speaking english? I mean as hot as that is I would think with all her training as a deep op, her accent may not be so Russian.

[mikekerr3]

[QUOTE=Tyr;6273824]


I was under the impression that those two don't really like each other though.


QUOTE]


that would only make it better, at least Spider-woman wouldnt have a reason to hate her as she would MS Marvel.

[Dr. Chaos]

I want to see her partner up with Spider-Man. She obviously has no respect for him... and he needs to learn some.
Unless you're talking about the bratty Ultimate Spidey, actually no.

Natasha being a bitch and Peter's inability to act like a stiff to impress people is not his problem.

Saying Peter needs to learn some respect is like saying Tony Stark needs to stop being a jackhole, we're way past that.

I wouldn't mind seeing them team up so Spidey could take her down a peg verbally, he wouldn't have a hard time getting to her and that would be fun to watch seeing how seriously she takes herself.

[Tyr]

that would only make it better, at least Spider-woman wouldnt have a reason to hate her as she would MS Marvel.

Yes but Jessica does not hate Carol, they are still friends despite what has happend.

I have just read a snippet of an issue of Marvel where She-Hulk was a S.H.E.I.L.D agent, apparently its part of a four part run by Dan Slott. Folks, forget I even questioned why Black Widow is in Avengers. :p

Even worse I want to read the rest of this She-Hulk S.H.E.I.L.D agent run, does anyone know if it was put into a trade?

[XPac]

Unless you're talking about the bratty Ultimate Spidey, actually no.

Natasha being a bitch and Peter's inability to act like a stiff to impress people is not his problem.

Saying Peter needs to learn some respect is like saying Tony Stark needs to stop being a jackhole, we're way past that.

I wouldn't mind seeing them team up so Spidey could take her down a peg verbally, he wouldn't have a hard time getting to her and that would be fun to watch seeing how seriously she takes herself.

Typo on my part... I meant she, not he.

[mikekerr3]

Yes but Jessica does not hate Carol, they are still friends despite what has happend.

I have just read a snippet of an issue of Marvel where She-Hulk was a S.H.E.I.L.D agent, apparently its part of a four part run by Dan Slott. Folks, forget I even questioned why Black Widow is in Avengers. :p

Even worse I want to read the rest of this She-Hulk S.H.E.I.L.D agent run, does anyone know if it was put into a trade?

Didn't you read the part when she gave Ms. marvel a shot about the scummy trick with caps body? After that I do not believe the could be friends again. Spider-woman isn't a saint and it would take a saint to forgive that.

If something shows they are still friends I definately missed it.

And as far as why the BW is on the Avengers with the exception of a crazy murderous god she is the real experienced pro of the bunch.

[Tyr]

Didn't you read the part when she gave Ms. marvel a shot about the scummy trick with caps body? After that I do not believe the could be friends again. Spider-woman isn't a saint and it would take a saint to forgive that.

If something shows they are still friends I definately missed it.



Yeah, but she forgave Carol for that, she even said so.

[CaptainCanada]

Yeah, but she forgave Carol for that, she even said so.
Well, that could be part of her cover (since she's lying about why she's on the team); but, given how many bridges Jessica the triple-quadruple agent tends to burn, she'd be well-served by forgiving and being forgiven in return.

[XPac]

Yeah, but she forgave Carol for that, she even said so.

I don't know... the way she talked about Carol's little trap earlier sort of showed at least to me like there were still hard feelings there.

I do think she can eventually forgive Carol for that, but in the same breath I think she lost a degree of trust and respect for Carol. And rightly so.

I suppose Jessica is the last person that should be throwing proverbial stones... she's living in a glass house after attacking and abandoning the NA. Still, she's human. Carol was her friend and Carol lied and betrayed her. Double agent or not, that's going to hurt.

[Tyr]

Why are we all talking about Spider Woman? This thread is suppose to be about Black Widow. *Mutters Something about Spider Woman's lousy pheromones*

[foxfire]

I don't know, to me there there really doesn't seem to be in-story reasons for why superteams don't go the Justice League Unlimited route, i.e. stack their roster with dozens of heroes, especially big teams like the Avengers. Yeah, the roster is fine as is, but why not throw in, I don't know, Namor, Falcon, Black Knight, She Hulk, etc, as well? You can never have too many heroes on duty if an alien invasion or something happens... obviously, it would be unwieldy for the writer to keep track of 20 characters, but to me it doesnt make sense that the Avengers, Earth's foremost line of defense, would limit themselves to 6-7 people at a time.

[Phrozen]

I don't know, to me there there really doesn't seem to be in-story reasons for why superteams don't go the Justice League Unlimited route, i.e. stack their roster with dozens of heroes, especially big teams like the Avengers. Yeah, the roster is fine as is, but why not throw in, I don't know, Namor, Falcon, Black Knight, She Hulk, etc, as well? You can never have too many heroes on duty if an alien invasion or something happens... obviously, it would be unwieldy for the writer to keep track of 20 characters, but to me it doesnt make sense that the Avengers, Earth's foremost line of defense, would limit themselves to 6-7 people at a time.

Most former members are reserves. They can be called up if need be but otherwise they are left to their own devices.

[XPac]

I don't know, to me there there really doesn't seem to be in-story reasons for why superteams don't go the Justice League Unlimited route, i.e. stack their roster with dozens of heroes, especially big teams like the Avengers. Yeah, the roster is fine as is, but why not throw in, I don't know, Namor, Falcon, Black Knight, She Hulk, etc, as well? You can never have too many heroes on duty if an alien invasion or something happens... obviously, it would be unwieldy for the writer to keep track of 20 characters, but to me it doesnt make sense that the Avengers, Earth's foremost line of defense, would limit themselves to 6-7 people at a time.

I think the point of the Initiative at least in THEORY is that there's a big pool of heroes to call upon if there's ever a need. That hasn't actually materialized too often in practice... but that's what the idea was I think.

The Avengers status quo after Busieks run was close to what JLU was.... they had small pockets of Avengers on duty in various placed. But that didn't last... and from a writing standpoint it's understandable that it didn't, even if it was a neat idea.

[Hulkamaniac]

Oh come on now, it wasn't that bad, it had some fun short stories, including a few Jarvis ones.



oh, I agree, the new Jarvis story was perfect and the reprint was a classic. It was that annoying reoccurring skinfest that kept popping up again and again throughout the issue.

[Tyr]

They explained this in #1; the team needs variety.


Given how closely the Avengers and SHIELD work together at this point, it actually does make sense. She's also got a good tactical mind.

It's almost like asking why is Batman on the Justice League.

Yes and all that works in theory, but so far the one I see come up with all the great plans was Ares, Black Widow seems to have faded into the background of the story. So while in theory she's there to make the Avengers well rounded team, in practice we have Frank Cho can drawing a "Well rounded" team. :D


oh, I agree, the new Jarvis story was perfect and the reprint was a classic. It was that annoying reoccurring skinfest that kept popping up again and again throughout the issue.

I didn't see it that way, looked to me like they were trying to pull the storys together using the three avenger gals as transition device. Ok, so that isn't much of an improvement and they were wearing bikinis and working on their tans, if they really wanted a skin fest we would have seen at least part of this conversation in a lengthy shower scene, as drawn by Frank Cho. :p

In any case I'd rather see that then see Tigra get beaten to a pulp.