Black Panther Appreciation [Archive] - Page 6

Papa.Bois

08-01-2008, 08:37 AM

I am glad to see an appreciation thread on this board for one of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby’s greatest creations. BP is one of my favorites and Priest and Hudlin have carried the torch passed on to them with creativity and a passion for the character that most that have written him just don’t have. Hopefully now BP will no longer be the character that gets his assed kicked and stands in the back during group portrait shots. His “true” fan base might not be that large but they are dedicated and will do what they can to support his mythology and keep it alive. Hurray for Us!

gorthon616

08-01-2008, 08:42 AM

July 30th, Just cant get here fast enough!!

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=751&disp=table

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/751/prv751_pg1.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/751/prv751_pg2.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/751/prv751_pg3.jpg

http://comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/751/prv751_pg4.jpg

Oh my friggin' god that is amazing.

akumasan

08-01-2008, 11:49 AM

Sheena stumbled and killed an agent. Again, dumb way to find out a skrull.

3-D Man, Crusader and Darwin all unmasked skrulls with a little luck/cunning by the writers. So why would it be so far fetched to think/expect Wakanda to be able to do the same? Aren't they supposed to be the most advanced nation in the world?

Ah more ammo. It is not really a dumb way. She reacted to the fact that these people were attacking her people. Even though she "stumbled" her instincts told her to find out what is going on. First of all when you see people digging into your land for vibranium and it is pretty clear they werent supposed to is why she grabbed that sheild/skrull and attacked. So when she noticed something about them that is different she put on the outfit to check it out right? Throughout the book they were wondering why these shield agents were digging in even though they were promised that no one would.

Yes they were lucky to discover who the skrulls. It is amazing that suddenly it becomes about wakanda inspite the fact the discussion was about kazar and the savage land. (yes it is the BP thread but still)

The Cool Thatguy

08-01-2008, 12:00 PM

Ah more ammo. It is not really a dumb way. She reacted to the fact that these people were attacking her people. Even though she "stumbled" her instincts told her to find out what is going on. First of all when you see people digging into your land for vibranium and it is pretty clear they werent supposed to is why she grabbed that sheild/skrull and attacked. So when she noticed something about them that is different she put on the outfit to check it out right? Throughout the book they were wondering why these shield agents were digging in even though they were promised that no one would.

Yes they were lucky to discover who the skrulls. It is amazing that suddenly it becomes about wakanda inspite the fact the discussion was about kazar and the savage land. (yes it is the BP thread but still)

...what?

Good God, Akuma, your thought processes are all over the place. This topic of discussion started when I expressed the desire for Wakanda/Black Panther to discover the skrulls in a cunning and clever manner, not stumbling across it like an idiot. Why you've taken such issue with that, I've no idea.

akumasan

08-01-2008, 12:28 PM

...what?

Good God, Akuma, your thought processes are all over the place. This topic of discussion started when I expressed the desire for Wakanda/Black Panther to discover the skrulls in a cunning and clever manner, not stumbling across it like an idiot. Why you've taken such issue with that, I've no idea.

I just simply responded to why I felt as though it wasnt stupid that is all.

bluedmighty

08-01-2008, 01:47 PM

Excelsior

08-01-2008, 01:51 PM

Maybe "Stupid" is too harsh a term.

Accidental luck would probably fit the situation better.

I agree with The Cool Thatguy, in that I hope Wakanda has descovered a scientific and concrete way of detecting these sleeper Skrulls.

I count 6 pikes, and six heads.

There HAS to be a scientific and concrete way of desovering these guys.

Outside of stiking people with poisoness darts :biggrin:

How about a soul detector. Skrull have no Soul, they are lifeless heathen bastards! Or you could simply scan brain waves--surely they have a different cephallic pattern

The Cool Thatguy

08-01-2008, 01:58 PM

How about a soul detector. Skrull have no Soul, they are lifeless heathen bastards! Or you could simply scan brain waves--surely they have a different cephallic pattern

I find your lack of compassion for aliens who've wiped out countless planets and cultures offensive! You should be ashamed!

The Cool Thatguy

08-01-2008, 02:00 PM

Maybe "Stupid" is too harsh a term.

Accidental luck would probably fit the situation better.

I agree with The Cool Thatguy, in that I hope Wakanda has descovered a scientific and concrete way of detecting these sleeper Skrulls.

I count 6 pikes, and six heads.

There HAS to be a scientific and concrete way of desovering these guys.

Outside of stiking people with poisoness darts :biggrin:

Didn't Richards find out how they were hiding themselves within, like, an hour? Panther's people had the faux Brother Voodoo, presumably for a few days before the invasion.

That genius Stark, lugging that dead body around in secret :rolleyes:

bluedmighty

08-01-2008, 02:12 PM

Didn't Richards find out how they were hiding themselves within, like, an hour? Panther's people had the faux Brother Voodoo, presumably for a few days before the invasion.

That genius Stark, lugging that dead body around in secret :rolleyes:

Did he?

I missed that episode.

Did they explain it and provide a counter?

The Cool Thatguy

08-01-2008, 02:40 PM

Did he?

I missed that episode.

Did they explain it and provide a counter?

IIRC, it was in Secret Invasion 1. Reed had been studying the Electra replacement and was about to explain how the Skrulls upgraded themselves when skrull Pym shot him.

bluedmighty

08-01-2008, 02:43 PM

IIRC, it was in Secret Invasion 1. Reed had been studying the Electra replacement and was about to explain how the Skrulls upgraded themselves when skrull Pym shot him.

BOO:evilangry: OO:evilangry: OO:evilangry:OOOOOOOOOOOOO

I forgot all about that. Is it me or are they REALLY dragging the Times Square thing out?

The Cool Thatguy

08-01-2008, 02:53 PM

BOO:evilangry: OO:evilangry: OO:evilangry:OOOOOOOOOOOOO

I forgot all about that. Is it me or are they REALLY dragging the Times Square thing out?

Dragging out a Bendis story? Dear God, I hope your insanity doesn't spread!

Excelsior

08-03-2008, 05:37 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/BPSTARK.jpg

akumasan

08-04-2008, 12:31 PM

snip

where is that from?

The Cool Thatguy

08-04-2008, 12:42 PM

where is that from?

Geoff Johns' Avengers. The one with Red Skull. He tried to do Panther credit, but I always felt that he came up short.

akumasan

08-04-2008, 12:50 PM

Geoff Johns' Avengers. The one with Red Skull. He tried to do Panther credit, but I always felt that he came up short.

Oh man Geoff Johns? :rolleyes: He has a tendency to do well and in some cases he just stinks. I cant let go the garbage Infinite Crisis was. I did enjoy his Green Lantern arc named Green Lantern Wanted

Excelsior

08-06-2008, 09:06 PM

The Cat

08-07-2008, 04:09 PM

A couple of BP moments... :biggrin:

Christopher O

08-08-2008, 11:17 AM

Everyone go vote for the queen!

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233090

Excelsior

08-08-2008, 01:02 PM

Everyone go vote for the queen!

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233090

can and will do!!

bluedmighty

08-08-2008, 01:18 PM

A couple of BP moments... :biggrin:

NICE!!!!: biggrin:

Everyone go vote for the queen!

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233090

Already

Christopher O

08-09-2008, 09:10 AM

I posted this in the Storm thread, so I decided to do it here too:

Guys, three people have participated in the Top 50 X-Men poll by emailing in one name: Storm. The rules clearly say you need to send in your top TEN X-Men, ranked from 1-10. Otherwise, the vote doesn't count. I KNOW it's not anybody in this thread, though. If it is, go play by the rules, so Storm can win a sexy rank.

Excelsior

08-09-2008, 02:31 PM

Hindsight lad

08-09-2008, 05:24 PM

Ive read through the other Panther threads, and I was sruck by the different takes on who or what the Black Panther should be---character wise.

If you can . . . please sum up the character in 12 words or less.

Black Panther equals Stephen Hawings plus James Bond plus Shaka Zulu

This is gonna be way more than twelve words, so I appologize.

Black Panther is super genius. He has created an entire techno jungle, harnesed vibranium for hundreds of purposes, and designed devices and vehicles that rival or surpass anything created by Tony Stark or Reed Richards.

He is a master strategist. He has planned for every contingency, prepared for any possibility, and is generally at least four steps ahead of everyone else in the room. He has outsmarted the devil (Peter Parker should really give him a call some time), punked Nightmare, outflanked Atlantis and Lemuria, and annihilated Kiber the Cruel.

He is a warrior, latest in a line of undefeated chieftains who protected their country from invaders for centuries. He is enhanced by the heart shaped herb and trained by the finest warriors in Wakanda. He has endured everything Appartheid South Africa could throw at him, withstood the blows of Iron Fist, faced the Supremacists, and got the better of the Silver Surfer.:wink:

He is a cosmopolitan man, who has studied around the world and acquired fluency in numerous languages. He has a taste for fine art, and loves a raucus feast or a celebration. But above all, he loves his land and his people, and would die or kill to defend them. He is also a link between his own people and the outside world, one of the few Wakandans to travel beyond his nation's borders. He admires the best the outside world has to offer, but doesn't seek to radically alter or westernize his nation.

Most importantly of all, he is a man. He is hurt by injustice and prejudice, and seeks to help those in need and to right wrongs whenever possible. He is incredibly loyal to his friends, but often doesn't express his feelings. He is a leader, a teacher, a spiritual man, and a warrior. He is whatever Wakanda needs him to be.

Hindsight lad

Excelsior

08-13-2008, 10:44 AM

WoW, I just learned my uncle's father Charles R. Foxx was the flight instructor for famed the Tuskegee Airmen.

Im blown away.

http://www.thedctraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tuskegee_airmen_2.jpg

GalactaSurfer

08-13-2008, 10:58 AM

WoW, I just learned my uncle in law's father Charles R. Foxx was the flight instructor for famed the Tuskegee Airmen.

Im blown away.

http://www.thedctraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tuskegee_airmen_2.jpg

Thats great! Your related to a Legend!

marvell2100

08-13-2008, 11:05 AM

If you combine Doom, Namor, Tony S., Reed, and Cap, you get BP. Okay maybe I'm overexaggerating a little but he combines all of their traits with nobility and honor.

Excelsior

08-13-2008, 11:45 AM

Thats great! Your related to a Legend!

I was able to get some autographs during a family reunion of the surviving Airmen. Im on cloud 9.

Imraith Nimphais

08-13-2008, 12:18 PM

T'Challa is the 21st century version of Rameses the Great.

Umbra

08-13-2008, 12:20 PM

T'Challa is the 21st century version of Rameses the Great.

I would to see Bast (the Panther God) explored a lot more. She should have some sort of role in his the comic... what is the connection...

Imraith Nimphais

08-13-2008, 12:31 PM

now that you mention it...I wonder...has the Black Panther's lineage and their connection to the Panther God ever been told in its entirety?...if not, that would/could be a very interesting mini "BP and Storm: Where there be Gods"

Papa.Bois

08-13-2008, 01:59 PM

I was able to get some autographs during a family reunion of the surviving Airmen. Im on cloud 9.

I am envious! I hope George Lucas finally makes that movie about the Airmen that he has been talking about for what seems like the last hundred years.

Imraith Nimphais

08-13-2008, 03:00 PM

Papa.Bois...I just HAVE to ask...r u a Trinidadian?...the name u use is one of their folk-lore characters here.

Papa.Bois

08-13-2008, 04:36 PM

No. I am just a fan of non-European myths, legends and folklore.

Imraith Nimphais

08-14-2008, 11:17 AM

okies...thanx.

Excelsior

08-14-2008, 11:34 AM

I am envious! I hope George Lucas finally makes that movie about the Airmen that he has been talking about for what seems like the last hundred years.

Yeah I heard that too. I believe the film is called redtails or something like that. I heard the pilots talking about it. It would seem the project is going ahead. I even heard that Lucas new woman is a hottie and she happens to be african american.

Once you go wakandan, you never go back. HAH!

Sanctus

08-14-2008, 11:42 AM

T'Challa is the 21st century version of Rameses the Great.

Or the 21st century version Tokugawa Ieyasu, the great Japanese warrior who unified his country, founded a dynasty that lasted for over 250 years and imposed isolation on it with a bit of George Washington Carver and Charles Drew thrown in for good measure.

Papa.Bois

08-14-2008, 11:45 AM

I even heard that Lucas new woman is a hottie and she happens to be african american.

Once you go wakandan, you never go back. HAH!
Really? I hope she gives him an ear full for killing off Mace Windu and having Lando betray his friends. :biggrin:

Excelsior

08-14-2008, 11:51 AM

Really? I hope she gives him an ear full for killing off Mace Windu and having Lando betray his friends. :biggrin:

I know he deserves something for creating Jar Jar binks

Papa.Bois

08-14-2008, 12:02 PM

If you can . . . please sum up the character in 12 words or less.

Black Panther represents all the stolen potential (from colonization and slavery) of the continent of Africa.

Its a bit more than 12 words but I think that sums it up.

Papa.Bois

08-14-2008, 12:12 PM

I know he deserves something for creating Jar Jar binks
Oh man! I forgot about Jar Jar. He was like a bad experience that was suppressed by my mind. I don’t know if I can forgive you for making me relive the pain. I need to call my therapist quick! :wink:

Jamal

08-14-2008, 01:50 PM

Oh man! I forgot about Jar Jar. He was like a bad experience that was suppressed by my mind. I don’t know if I can forgive you for making me relive the pain. I need to call my therapist quick! :wink:

Just go find a copy of "The Phantom Edit" and all will be well...:tongue: :tongue: :biggrin:

bluedmighty

08-14-2008, 02:21 PM

marvell2100

08-14-2008, 04:03 PM

The Cat

08-15-2008, 10:51 AM

I have always envisioned him as Reed Richards Tony Stark, Captain America and Doctor Doom rolled into one...

One of my favourite lines in the current series; which I think tells a lot about his character, was in no 23; when he was confronted by the Black Widow after crawling fifteen miles thru the New York sewer system...

BW "Dont tell me you knew I was tracking you the whole time".

BP "You were the best spy the soviet system ever created. People like me hire people like you - Of course I knew".

BW "Don't make me have to--"

BP "I would never fight a Woman ---- I have people for that".

Enter the Dora Milaje...

Excelsior

08-15-2008, 11:34 AM

I have always envisioned him as Reed Richards Tony Stark, Captain America and Doctor Doom rolled into one...

One of my favourite lines in the current series; which I think tells a lot about his character, was in no 23; when he was confronted by the Black Widow after crawling fifteen miles thru the New York sewer system...

BW "Dont tell me you knew I was tracking you the whole time".

BP "You were the best spy the soviet system ever created. People like me hire people like you - Of course I knew".

BW "Don't make me have to--"

BP "I would never fight Woman ---- I have people for that".

Enter the Dora Milaje...

That was BP Badassery!! I remember that issue.

da gooch

08-15-2008, 05:32 PM

akumasan

08-16-2008, 10:39 AM

I remember how much it pissed folks of fon this forum. I thought it was comedy. Folks be takin this comic sh*t to seriously

huh how can it piss people off. It isnt like that a person of monarchy power wouldnt get someone like her jeez

Excelsior

08-16-2008, 07:42 PM

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Black%20Panther%202.jpg

princesa

08-16-2008, 07:50 PM

Black Panther represents all the stolen potential (from colonization and slavery) of the continent of Africa.

Its a bit more than 12 words but I think that sums it up.

I don't see it like that at all. I see the Panther-Wakanda as what would happen if one of the great ancient civilizations continued without toppling.

Blade X

08-16-2008, 08:37 PM

The Cool Thatguy

08-16-2008, 08:52 PM

huh how can it piss people off. It isnt like that a person of monarchy power wouldnt get someone like her jeez

Hudlin had Black Widow beaten by Red Shirts. Not hard to see why it rankled ;)

Blade X

08-16-2008, 08:52 PM

Yeah I heard that too. I believe the film is called redtails or something like that. I heard the pilots talking about it. It would seem the project is going ahead. I even heard that Lucas new woman is a hottie and she happens to be african american.

Once you go wakandan, you never go back. HAH!

Yep, Lucas's girlfriend is definitely AA. In fact, they were both photographed in an issue of JET MAGAZINE a while ago. You might be able to pull up that photo if you do a google search. And yes, she is very pretty.

taozen

08-17-2008, 10:01 AM

I see BP as a combination of Cap. America (physical prowess & strategist), Stark (scientist), Wolverine (enhanced senses), & Doom (royalty), .

But T'Challa is also the spiritual leader of his people. This has not been touched upon by most writers. I think we should see T'Challa providing guidance to his people and comrades at times when all seems lost. That's part of what spiritual leaders do. So with a combination of all those characteristics, one can see why he is so difficult for writers to handle well.

Imraith Nimphais

08-19-2008, 12:16 PM

bluedmighty

08-19-2008, 12:31 PM

I was just going through my pull-list for Oct/Nov and there are no Black Panther issues listed...was this deliberate?...I know X-M: Worlds Apart starts in Oct...so this could be the reason...but that is essentially Storm's story (even though it revolves around wot is going down in Wakanda...based on the solicits)...can anyone shed some light?

I hope not.

#40 and #41 are both secret invasion tie-ins. I would expect them to wrap up somewhere along the same time as the main book.

Queen O's Worlds appart shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I see they've got 2 new Wolverine solo's :rolleyes:

Umbra

08-19-2008, 12:34 PM

I was just going through my pull-list for Oct/Nov and there are no Black Panther issues listed...was this deliberate?...I know X-M: Worlds Apart starts in Oct...so this could be the reason...but that is essentially Storm's story (even though it revolves around wot is going down in Wakanda...based on the solicits)...can anyone shed some light?

I might be wrong, but I think it is somehow connect to the aftermath of SI invision of Wakanda... and SI aftermath with the X-men... and Storm being caught inbetween.

.

Imraith Nimphais

08-19-2008, 01:17 PM

I guess we will have to practice patience and hope for the best...:-)

Hybrid2

08-19-2008, 02:08 PM

I guess we will have to practice patience and hope for the best...:-)

A new writer?

Yes I went there.

The Cool Thatguy

08-19-2008, 03:00 PM

A new writer?

Yes I went there.

Some of of have wisely been calling for that since issue 6. Nothing new there ;)

Excelsior

08-19-2008, 03:16 PM

Some of of have wisely been calling for that since issue 6. Nothing new there ;)

And how have things been going with your campaign LOL!!!

akumasan

08-19-2008, 03:36 PM

A new writer?

Yes I went there.

Same consistant sense of whining

Yep i went there too:biggrin:

The Cool Thatguy

08-19-2008, 05:39 PM

And how have things been going with your campaign LOL!!!

The series has lost thousands of readers and proven completely unable to substain itself without the aid of stunts and crossovers?

I'd laugh, but those facts aren't funny. When Joe Q does realize how much he's sunk into Panther vs. how much he's gotten out, it wouldn't surprise me if he blamed the character and not the writer.

Excelsior

08-20-2008, 02:09 PM

The series has lost thousands of readers and proven completely unable to substain itself without the aid of stunts and crossovers?

I'd laugh, but those facts aren't funny. When Joe Q does realize how much he's sunk into Panther vs. how much he's gotten out, it wouldn't surprise me if he blamed the character and not the writer.

why would he blame the character, in your own words..when he pumps interest into the book it sells. SEE: Jason Aaron. Civil War, Storm, etc. So its not the character.

The Cool Thatguy

08-20-2008, 02:18 PM

why would he blame the character, in your own words..when he pumps interest into the book it sells. SEE: Jason Aaron. Civil War, Storm, etc. So its not the character.

Crossovers pump up any book. What's important is hooking those readers afterwards. That hasn't happened and as a result, Joe Q will likely blame Panther, not Hudlin.

Excelsior

08-20-2008, 02:28 PM

Crossovers pump up any book. What's important is hooking those readers afterwards. That hasn't happened and as a result, Joe Q will likely blame Panther, not Hudlin.

Thats silly. If that were true the Aaron issues wouldnt have sold out.

The Cool Thatguy

08-20-2008, 03:02 PM

Thats silly. If that were true the Aaron issues wouldnt have sold out.

What part of 'crossovers pump a book up' don't you understand?

GalactaSurfer

08-20-2008, 03:58 PM

The Cool Thatguy

08-20-2008, 04:19 PM

Do people really stick with a tilte they dont usually pick up after a tie in? I dont collect Spider-man or FF but I picked up the Civil War tie ins but dropped the titles immedeatly afterwards.

IMO I think all the crossovers have screwed up the title. I think if Black Panther was left to its own grove then it would of keep a leveled fan base. The tie ins should of been mini's or one shots.

In theory they can. Crossovers give you a basic premise to let you know what's going on. Good writers can work the crossovers into long term plots (see this month's Hercules). In practice, who knows?

Honestly, I blame Hudlin's plotting for the lack of stable numbers. What reason does one have to really stick around? The supporting cast disappears for extended periods of time, Hudlin's voice on the character changes with the issue, subplots are non existant and there have been all of two real villains to act as foils for T'Challa and neither were used well.

I know alot of people like to mock Priest's complex plots, but at least it gave readers a reason to return.

The same can't be said of Hudlin's writing, and it shows.

Excelsior

08-20-2008, 05:05 PM

What part of 'crossovers pump a book up' don't you understand?

Poor Coolthatguy if he didnt have Hudlin to diss he wouldnt have anything to post.

The Cool Thatguy

08-20-2008, 05:35 PM

Poor Coolthatguy if he didnt have Hudlin to diss he wouldnt have anything to post.

If you didn't have Hudlin, you'd have no Kool-Aid to drink.

If you couldn't attack critics, you've have no arguement.

If you read another series instead of Hudlin's series, you might be provoked to thought.

Circle of fan life, I suppose.

Bingo!

08-20-2008, 06:29 PM

I just read the most recent Black Panther issue. The mood was perfect, the art was flawless. It was extremely fun to read!

Was there any spoiler or review of it anywhere?

akumasan

08-20-2008, 06:39 PM

Excelsior

08-21-2008, 11:06 AM

BET UK, will feature the Black Panther Animated series as well. So our cousins across the pond will get to see the series as well. Thanks to my Liverpool--London connect for the info.

Imraith Nimphais

08-22-2008, 10:11 AM

akumasan

08-22-2008, 10:48 AM

Judging from the preview...BP #40 seems to be spot-on!...as uninterested as I've been for the SI main series (and the premise itself)...I'm very excited for this tie-in story...a pity it is only running for 3 issues and not 4.

I think that BP and the Inhumans tiein are the best so far. I picked up the YA/RA tie in and im dissappointed. The FF one i didnt even bother; I just think it is too short. New Avengers is just filler, Mighty Avengers was ok, Thor's tiein was bleh.
I just think that there are too many.

Imraith Nimphais

08-22-2008, 12:15 PM

I think that BP and the Inhumans tiein are the best so far. I picked up the YA/RA tie in and im dissappointed. The FF one i didnt even bother; I just think it is too short. New Avengers is just filler, Mighty Avengers was ok, Thor's tiein was bleh.
I just think that there are too many.

Agreed...I scanned through YA/RA, NA, MA and Thor on the shelf...didn't do much for me...but admittedly, I am not that big of an Avenger fan apart from JMS's Thor...so I was not very impressed.

bluedmighty

08-22-2008, 12:31 PM

Really though,

The BP, Initiative, New Avengers, and Mighty Avengers are the only ones I am reading outside of the Main book.

IN FACT, I dare say they have been 100x better than the actual event.

Excelsior

08-22-2008, 02:29 PM

Imraith Nimphais

08-22-2008, 02:38 PM

HA!!! That was wonderful! (if only just tad verbose...) lol...thanx fer posting Excelsior

Excelsior

08-22-2008, 02:41 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/love.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/panther.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Panther-1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/panther1.jpg

Excelsior

08-22-2008, 02:48 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Panther3.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/bpcap25tb.jpg

Magneto X

08-22-2008, 03:10 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Panther3.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/bpcap25tb.jpg

The insult onto injury: "Don't Be Ridiculous."

The Cool Thatguy

08-22-2008, 03:16 PM

What, no one punching the devil? No dancing Hulk? No Iron Man take down?

Call me when the really impressive stuff gets here ;)

Blade X

08-22-2008, 08:08 PM

Black Panther Greatness FLASHBACK-- I scanned these while working on my BP omnibus

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/FantasticFourv105215.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/FantasticFourv105216.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/FantasticFourv105217.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/FantasticFourv105219.jpg

Dude, if you can find it on youtube, you should either post a link or post the clip of the episode of the EXCELLENT 2nd season of the 90's FF cartoon that introduced BP. That episode almost literally adapted the scenes from the pages you posted (it was an amalgamation of Byrne and Kirby art).

Hindsight lad

08-22-2008, 09:06 PM

Those are some cool images, and they create some cool story possibilities: Black Panther is the boxing champion of Africa? We need to see some of those bouts, right now!!! Maybe a Panther-Moses Magnum bout, or even an appearance by Muhammad Ali post Rumble in the Jungle. Hey, if he fought Superman, he can coach the Panther.

Hindsight lad

Excelsior

08-22-2008, 10:26 PM

What, no one punching the devil? No dancing Hulk? No Iron Man take down?

Call me when the really impressive stuff gets here ;)

Panther's Prey mini-series

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/pag37.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/pag38.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/pag39.jpg

Excelsior

08-22-2008, 10:28 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/pag41.jpg

bluedmighty

08-23-2008, 02:04 PM

Excelsior,

EXCELLENT images sir. :biggrin:

Greg Anderson

08-26-2008, 10:09 AM

Anyone seen Next Avengers yet? Black Panther has a son, named Azari, and in it he's two sides of awesome. The designs of when he uses his powers are fantastic and his fighting style is a blast to watch. Also, it's not stated who his mother is but you can assume it's Storm given that he has electrical powers and in the flash back when T'Challa is holding up his child in happiness, next to him you see the back of a woman's head who has long white hair.

Umbra

08-26-2008, 12:58 PM

Umbra

08-26-2008, 01:27 PM

double post

bushboy

08-26-2008, 01:40 PM

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Panther3.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/bpcap25tb.jpg

Quick question: Why do so many people hate those two moments?

Umbra

08-26-2008, 01:44 PM

Quick question: Why do so many people hate those two moments?

Because Panther came out on top and it was written by RH.

Notice how BP does the same thing he does to the Thing, as he does to the SS...yet it wrong because BP come out on top... and it's the same freaking concept.

That says a lot about certain fan boys...:evilangry:

The Cool Thatguy

08-26-2008, 02:07 PM

Because Panther came out on top and it was written by RH.

Notice how BP does the same thing he does to the Thing, as he does to the SS...yet it wrong because BP come out on top... and it's the same freaking concept.

That says a lot about certain fan boys...:evilangry:

RH didn't write the second scene, actually.

The first scene depicted Cap as an imperial tool and negated a better story by Priest. Hence the dislike.

The second scene was from a rather choppy FF arc written by McDuffie and wasn't helped by the fact that just prior to this, Silver Surfer had gotten a big creative push. He goes from beating God like beings to being smacked around by Panther.

Yeah, huge mystery why people didn't like it :rolleyes:

XPac

08-26-2008, 02:15 PM

Quick question: Why do so many people hate those two moments?

I think this particular SS/BP scene is okay. The one people have issues with is the stupid armbar one in the previous issue.

I think by itself the Cap scene isn't terrible either. But it basically retcons Priests version that some would argue (myself included) was better.

Excelsior

08-26-2008, 02:36 PM

Quick question: Why do so many people hate those two moments?

Because, As McDuffie explained in the Panther/FF story run. Somehow, certain readers believe Panther's exploits belittle their own.-- ( pertaining to the idea of where Panther should be as a character.)

Panther should under no circumstances be able to have defeated SS or Capt. Atho Batroc the leaper has defeated Cap and hes not even super powered. As well Silver Surfer lost to Doom, who has no powers, but these examples are merely glossed over, because it was, in the minds of some readers, plausible.

Panther--who's intellect up to it being retconned lower- was in the same league as Stark and Reed. I believe someone has the scan of this being stated in an Avengers annual. Now his IQ is somewhere in the Pym to Cho level.

Still, With his entire life dedicated to mental and physical perfection, and the enhancements provided by his spiritual link to the Panther God (No doubt this will come to surface during Jason Aaron's story arc, to which, he will receive no ire for its use, while If Hudlin were to do so it would have been labeled a Deus Ex Machina cop-out, but I digress) you would think his victories would have at least been given the benefit of the doubt.

XPac

08-26-2008, 02:48 PM

Still, With his entire life dedicated to mental and physical perfection, and the enhancements provided by his spiritual link to the Panther God (No doubt this will come to surface during Jason Aaron's story arc, to which, he will receive no ire for its use, while If Hudlin were to do so it would have been labeled a Deus Ex Machina cop-out, but I digress) you would think his victories would have at least been given the benefit of the doubt.

Caps one thing... but when you're using armbars against the Silver Surfer, it takes a bit more than the benefit of the doubt to get a lot of readers to buy it.

The Cool Thatguy

08-26-2008, 02:51 PM

Because, As McDuffie explained in the Panther/FF story run. Somehow, certain readers believe Panther's exploits belittle their own.-- ( pertaining to the idea of where Panther should be as a character.)

Panther should under no circumstances be able to have defeated SS or Capt. Atho Batroc the leaper has defeated Cap and hes not even super powered. As well Silver Surfer lost to Doom, who has no powers, but these examples are merely glossed over, because it was, in the minds of some readers, plausible.

Panther--who's intellect up to it being retconned lower- was in the same league as Stark and Reed. I believe someone has the scan of this being stated in an Avengers annual. Now his IQ is somewhere in the Pym to Cho level.

Still, With his entire life dedicated to mental and physical perfection, and the enhancements provided by his spiritual link to the Panther God (No doubt this will come to surface during Jason Aaron's story arc, to which, he will receive no ire for its use, while If Hudlin were to do so it would have been labeled a Deus Ex Machina cop-out, but I digress) you would think his victories would have at least been given the benefit of the doubt.

What's funny about that statement of McDuffie is that he used it in defense of Hudlin's Panther while at the same time, relying completely upon Priest's depiction of Panther and flat out ignoring Hudlin's work, save the marriage to Storm.

So a rather thin strawman, that.

And btw, when Doom beat Silver Surfer, the writer went through some effort to make it believable. All the effort Hudlin's ever put into his battles is 'Panther's just that good'.

Arilou

08-26-2008, 02:54 PM

Panther should under no circumstances be able to have defeated SS or Capt. Atho Batroc the leaper has defeated Cap and hes not even super powered.

Batroc has actually defeated Cap? I thought his entire schtick was that he kept trying but never succeeded.

As well Silver Surfer lost to Doom, who has no powers, but these examples are merely glossed over, because it was, in the minds of some readers, plausible.

Silver Surfer being wrestled by the Black Panther != Having his powers stolen (like T'Challa did a few issues later) Wrestling Norrin should be nigh impossible. Stealing his power is far from it.

Excelsior

08-26-2008, 03:06 PM

What's funny about that statement of McDuffie is that he used it in defense of Hudlin's Panther while at the same time, relying completely upon Priest's depiction of Panther and flat out ignoring Hudlin's work, save the marriage to Storm.

So a rather thin strawman, that.

And btw, when Doom beat Silver Surfer, the writer went through some effort to make it believable. All the effort Hudlin's ever put into his battles is 'Panther's just that good'.

I thought McDuffie wrote his own version of Panther> I didnt see it as derivative of anyones.

And He did explain what BP had done, in copying Doom's strategy. Should there have been a panel for panel swipe of that classic FF issue? Maybe McDuff was wrong to assume that his readers were knowledgeable to connect plot threads or how it was done before. I guess spidey should explain his web-shooters every issue too.

Norrin Rad is not super powered, hes just alien. Cosmic powers removed= hes fair game for a foe who is tactically sound.

And yes, Batroc has defeated Cap. As has the Red Skull who is also Non-superhuman.

XPac

08-26-2008, 03:14 PM

I thought McDuffie wrote his own version of Panther> I didnt see it as derivative of anyones.

And He did explain what BP had done, in copying Doom's strategy. Should there have been a panel for panel swipe of that classic FF issue? Maybe McDuff was wrong to assume that his readers were knowledgeable to connect plot threads or how it was done before. I guess spidey should explain his web-shooters every issue too.

Norrin Rad is not super powered, hes just alien. Cosmic powers removed= hes fair game for a foe who is tactically sound.

And yes, Batroc has defeated Cap. As has the Red Skull who is also Non-superhuman.

Well, perhaps had McDuffie decided to have BP stick SS in the armbar AFTER he used Doom's device, the bulk of the criticism against him wouldn't have been an issue.

Excelsior

08-26-2008, 03:21 PM

Well, perhaps had McDuffie decided to have BP stick SS in the armbar AFTER he used Doom's device, the bulk of the criticism against him wouldn't have been an issue.

Relatively speaking, A bee sting in the right place can take down any athlete. If not from the pain. I liken it to the shock of a person using a Vibranium weaved armor that absorbs enough kinetic energy to stop bullets putting a friend in an arm loc--its not like SS would back hand the dude, they are friends, but I digress. For God sakes, Kazar took down Thanos, and no one brings that up half as much when Mark Waid's name is mentioned.

The Cool Thatguy

08-26-2008, 03:24 PM

I thought McDuffie wrote his own version of Panther> I didnt see it as derivative of anyones.

And He did explain what BP had done, in copying Doom's strategy. Should there have been a panel for panel swipe of that classic FF issue? Maybe McDuff was wrong to assume that his readers were knowledgeable to connect plot threads or how it was done before. I guess spidey should explain his web-shooters every issue too.

Norrin Rad is not super powered, hes just alien. Cosmic powers removed= hes fair game for a foe who is tactically sound.

And yes, Batroc has defeated Cap. As has the Red Skull who is also Non-superhuman.

The Galactus contingency plans were mentoined under Priest, and it was Priest who had Panther wearing a vibranium microweave suit. In addition, it was Priest's Panther who thought two steps ahead and had all kinds of crazy plans.

Plus, we saw a Klaw that in no way resembled Hudlin's Klaw. It's fairly obvious that McDuffie wasn't relying on Hudlin's depiction (probably because he couldn't figure it out himself).

And I aimed that lack of foreshadowing comment at Hudlin, not McDuffie.

XPac

08-26-2008, 03:29 PM

Relatively speaking, A bee sting in the right place can take down any athlete. If not from the pain. I liken it to the shock of a person using a Vibranium weaved armor that absorbs enough kinetic energy to stop bullets putting a friend in an arm loc--its not like SS would back hand the dude, they are friends, but I digress. For God sakes, Kazar took down Thanos, and no one brings that up half as much when Mark Waid's name is mentioned.

Had Kazar restrained Thanos in an armbar, you would have gotten the exact same criticisms for the exact same reason.

It's not just a question of who beats whom but rather how. BP beating SS with Doom tech is perfectly fine. BP putting SS in an armbar is just plain stupid. Similar outcomes, but different ways to get there. One made sense, and one did not.

Umbra

08-26-2008, 03:34 PM

Because, As McDuffie explained in the Panther/FF story run. Somehow, certain readers believe Panther's exploits belittle their own.-- ( pertaining to the idea of where Panther should be as a character.)

Panther should under no circumstances be able to have defeated SS or Capt. Atho Batroc the leaper has defeated Cap and hes not even super powered. As well Silver Surfer lost to Doom, who has no powers, but these examples are merely glossed over, because it was, in the minds of some readers, plausible.

Panther--who's intellect up to it being retconned lower- was in the same league as Stark and Reed. I believe someone has the scan of this being stated in an Avengers annual. Now his IQ is somewhere in the Pym to Cho level.

Still, With his entire life dedicated to mental and physical perfection, and the enhancements provided by his spiritual link to the Panther God (No doubt this will come to surface during Jason Aaron's story arc, to which, he will receive no ire for its use, while If Hudlin were to do so it would have been labeled a Deus Ex Machina cop-out, but I digress) you would think his victories would have at least been given the benefit of the doubt.

You have my Co-sign.

So basically to some... BP being a hero is a no, no.
Which is stupid as hell, btw.

XPac

08-26-2008, 03:39 PM

You have my Co-sign.

So basically to some... BP being a hero is a no, no.
Which is stupid as hell, btw.

It's not that people don't want BP to be written as a hero... it's that people don't want him to be written badly. There's a difference.

Umbra

08-26-2008, 03:40 PM

I thought McDuffie wrote his own version of Panther> I didnt see it as derivative of anyones.

And He did explain what BP had done, in copying Doom's strategy. Should there have been a panel for panel swipe of that classic FF issue? Maybe McDuff was wrong to assume that his readers were knowledgeable to connect plot threads or how it was done before. I guess spidey should explain his web-shooters every issue too.

Norrin Rad is not super powered, hes just alien. Cosmic powers removed= hes fair game for a foe who is tactically sound.

And yes, Batroc has defeated Cap. As has the Red Skull who is also Non-superhuman.

Co sign again...

For all we know the Black Panther could have mystical powers beyond what is being told.

For example, what if Bast (the Panther Goddess) is his real mother or something... would people have issue if he was demi god…or his Mystical side? I just saying, you would have hating fan boys crying all day long.

It was the same as Lee and Kirby with the Thing. Period.

Umbra

08-26-2008, 03:44 PM

It's not that people don't want BP to be written as a hero... it's that people don't want him to be written badly. There's a difference.

That is not always the case. Some are FAR to critical.

The Cool Thatguy

08-26-2008, 03:53 PM

That is not always the case. Some are FAR to critical.

Ahh, that ol' chestnut. Wonder how long it'll take for people to start complaining that it's the detractors keep bringing up the armbar/Silver Surfer confrontation.

XPac

08-26-2008, 03:59 PM

That is not always the case. Some are FAR to critical.

That's sort of a chicken and egg thing. I think a lot of people got very critical of the character when Hudlin started writing the character badly.

I you look at a lot of the criticism, I think you'll see that a descent percentage of the criticism is actually aimed at the writer rather than the character.

Though funnily enough, the arguably most criticised thing was actually done by McDuffie rather than Hudlin.

If you read the reviews of the recent BP issues, I think you'll notice a far more positive vibe from the threads.

Excelsior

08-26-2008, 08:01 PM

The thing I noticed is that most of the people that have stated positive things about Aaron's take on BP. Have never posted anything postive about BP in this appreciation thread. Its as if Aaron is the only person who has ever written a decent BP story. I try to introduce other series or try to have a discussion and its always back to Hudlin.

Magneto_X

08-26-2008, 10:34 PM

Norrin Rad is not super powered, hes just alien.

SS's an alien which had become super-powered on the cosmic level. He's a hero which would destroy Superman in a fight in pure power and variety.

Cosmic powers removed= hes fair game for a foe who is tactically sound.

Norrin's powers weren't removed when BP put him in the armbar.

Magneto_X

08-26-2008, 10:38 PM

For God sakes, Kazar took down Thanos, and no one brings that up half as much when Mark Waid's name is mentioned.

Ka-Zar ran for miles to avoid fighting him when Thanos first showed up on the scene. He only beat him by plot device IIRC not by unarmed combat.

akumasan

08-27-2008, 10:58 AM

OH god the SS arguement again!! It is amazing that people are arguing this but wont argue about him punching mephisto :rolleyes:

Greg Anderson

08-27-2008, 11:01 AM

OH god the SS arguement again!! It is amazing that people are arguing this but wont argue about him punching mephisto :rolleyes:

Heh, that is definitely one of my favorite scenes in a comic. :biggrin:

The Cool Thatguy

08-27-2008, 11:03 AM

OH god the SS arguement again!! It is amazing that people are arguing this but wont argue about him punching mephisto :rolleyes:

First, we didn't start it ;)

Second, punching out Mephisto was exceptionally well written. Priest knew that people would be inclined to roll their eyes, so he bent over backwards to make it believable. He put time, effort and creativity into it. That's why no one complains.

And while I love the punch, it's worth noting that if you've read the issue, you can make an easy case for the punch being completely ineffective.

XPac

08-27-2008, 11:07 AM

OH god the SS arguement again!! It is amazing that people are arguing this but wont argue about him punching mephisto :rolleyes:

That's a bit of a stretch too honestly... though there were certain other mystical elements floating around there which buffer that a bit.

The general rule of thumb is that you probably shouldn't throw Black Panther against cosmic beings. I think Priest sold it a bit better than McDuffie though.

Written well, anyone in theory can beat anyone else. I think Priest did about as good a job as anyone could in handling BP and Mephisto. I think McDuffie wrote about as well as any 5th grade could in writing BP restraining SS with an armbar. I'm not saying McDuffie is a bad writer in general... but that was just really really bad.

Again, that's the irony of this. I think people in general thought McDuffie did a better job writing BP than Hudlin... yet that one scene by McDuffie arguably was worse than anything Hudlin did.

SUPERECWFAN1

08-27-2008, 01:19 PM

That's a bit of a stretch too honestly... though there were certain other mystical elements floating around there which buffer that a bit.

The general rule of thumb is that you probably shouldn't throw Black Panther against cosmic beings. I think Priest sold it a bit better than McDuffie though.

Written well, anyone in theory can beat anyone else. I think Priest did about as good a job as anyone could in handling BP and Mephisto. I think McDuffie wrote about as well as any 5th grade could in writing BP restraining SS with an armbar. I'm not saying McDuffie is a bad writer in general... but that was just really really bad.

Again, that's the irony of this. I think people in general thought McDuffie did a better job writing BP than Hudlin... yet that one scene by McDuffie arguably was worse than anything Hudlin did.

I've had friends debate and others on that moment in FF where BP did that. I had picked it up and tried to not let the whole sillyness of that get in the way. But others had a huge problem with it and claimed "Shit if Panther can beat Surfer with an arm bar , Captain America should be able to put the boots to Thanos and Beyonder on a good day !"

We all shared a laugh. But something we kinda knew was pretty "out there" as something in a story.

akumasan

08-27-2008, 01:20 PM

First, we didn't start it ;)

Second, punching out Mephisto was exceptionally well written. Priest knew that people would be inclined to roll their eyes, so he bent over backwards to make it believable. He put time, effort and creativity into it. That's why no one complains.

And while I love the punch, it's worth noting that if you've read the issue, you can make an easy case for the punch being completely ineffective.
Actually i did. I have every issue from day one (well most of them illegally :biggrin: ). If that is the case then spidey could have "punched" mephisto as well to make it believable to prevent BND. Never mind that norrin more than once without his power can be defeated. But no once again it becomes why people dont like hudlin and why one like priest.

Now here is one question for people. Are you guys telling me that SS should be able to defeat Mephisto without his powers? Or that isnt believable for BP but it is for Doom?

The Cool Thatguy

08-27-2008, 01:32 PM

Actually i did. I have every issue from day one (well most of them illegally :biggrin: ). If that is the case then spidey could have "punched" mephisto as well to make it believable to prevent BND. Never mind that norrin more than once without his power can be defeated. But no once again it becomes why people dont like hudlin and why one like priest.

Now here is one question for people. Are you guys telling me that SS should be able to defeat Mephisto without his powers? Or that isnt believable for BP but it is for Doom?

You sure you have the issue? Because it in, it's expressly stated that the boatload of scientists that Panther brings with him is how/why he was able to punch Mephisto. It's not something he did on a whim.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 01:39 PM

Actually i did. I have every issue from day one (well most of them illegally :biggrin: ). If that is the case then spidey could have "punched" mephisto as well to make it believable to prevent BND. Never mind that norrin more than once without his power can be defeated. But no once again it becomes why people dont like hudlin and why one like priest.

Now here is one question for people. Are you guys telling me that SS should be able to defeat Mephisto without his powers? Or that isnt believable for BP but it is for Doom?

It's their standard double-standard. :eek: :biggrin:

The Cool Thatguy

08-27-2008, 01:51 PM

It's their standard double-standard. :eek: :biggrin:

Only for those who can't be bothered to actually read the issues, understand the science and or metaphors involved and only see what they want.

akumasan

08-27-2008, 02:04 PM

You sure you have the issue? Because it in, it's expressly stated that the boatload of scientists that Panther brings with him is how/why he was able to punch Mephisto. It's not something he did on a whim.

Um yes i have i still think that it is silly. Shit while one is at it let's get all of the genius of MU next time. :rolleyes:

The Cool Thatguy

08-27-2008, 02:14 PM

Um yes i have i still think that it is silly. Shit while one is at it let's get all of the genius of MU next time. :rolleyes:

So what, Panther shouldn't be smart enough to hurt the Devil?

Magneto_X

08-27-2008, 02:35 PM

Actually i did. I have every issue from day one (well most of them illegally :biggrin: ). If that is the case then spidey could have "punched" mephisto as well to make it believable to prevent BND.

Which would have done nothing to Mephisto. Spiderman would need to use high end magic and tech to make the devil actually hurt.

BP used science and magic to defeat him in Priest's run. Not that it kept Mephisto down for long.

Never mind that norrin more than once without his power can be defeated.

Of course. Only Norrin doesn't use prep of either magic or technology to defeat his enemies.

BP did when he beat Mephisto and only did it to SS after he defeated a fully powered Norrin who held back by putting him in an armbar.

He did not use any magic or super technology to defeat SS in combat the first time. It was a street brawl. That's why people don't like it.

But no once again it becomes why people dont like hudlin and why one like priest.

Priest writes a competent, interesting, believable BP. Hudlin does not. That's why his run is criticially acclaimed while Hudlin's isn't.

Now here is one question for people. Are you guys telling me that SS should be able to defeat Mephisto without his powers?

Only if he uses high end magic and technology like BP did.

Mephisto gives him serious fights with his powers.

Or that isnt believable for BP but it is for Doom?

Doom needs magic and technology to defeat Mephisto. He needed Strange's help to rescue his mother's soul. He didn't beat Mephisto by applying an armbar on him in unarmed combat.

bluedmighty

08-27-2008, 03:00 PM

Can't believe we're re-hashing this.

For the Surfer:

1. Does the Surfer have joints?

2. Is the Surfer between 5'0 and 6'6?

If the answer is yes, than the move is valid.

3. Is the Surfer well versed in hand to hand combat?

If no, the move is valid.

4. Is it possible that the syphoning of his powers resulted in a "daze"?

If so, than the move is valid.

For BP:

Did he attempt to restrain Surfer at his full power?

Did BP just grab him, or did he use a specific technique?

XPac

08-27-2008, 03:05 PM

Um yes i have i still think that it is silly. Shit while one is at it let's get all of the genius of MU next time. :rolleyes:

One can argue there's always a degree of silliness anytime you're involving cosmics against street levelers.

Again, at least Priest attempted to explain the possibility. McDuffie simply had BP hop over to SS and place him in an armbar.

However, if you're trying to argue that both instances are deserving of criticsm I can live with that. I don't have a huge problem with people saying what Priest did was a bit far fetched... the point being made here is simply that Priest did a much better job writing and at least trying to justify the scenario.

McDuffie chose to justify the scene with a ridiculous monologue from BP explaining how he can break SS's arm... basically exposing to the world just how stupid his version of BP actually is. Thats the bad thing about bad writing... it didn't just make SS look bad, it made BP look like a moron too (in additon to reflecting very poorly on the writer).

DaeJi

08-27-2008, 03:06 PM

People are still going on about the armbar? It was a while ago! You know, even good writers have bad moments. McDuffie just had a bad moment. It's not a big deal.

Dark Soul # 7

08-27-2008, 03:09 PM

Can't believe we're re-hashing this.

For the Surfer:

1. Does the Surfer have joints?

2. Is the Surfer between 5'0 and 6'6?

If the answer is yes, than the move is valid.

3. Is the Surfer well versed in hand to hand combat?

If no, the move is valid.

4. Is it possible that the syphoning of his powers resulted in a "daze"?

If so, than the move is valid.

For BP:

Did he attempt to restrain Surfer at his full power?

Did BP just grab him, or did he use a specific technique?Didn't he do the armbar thing before he even brought the machine that was used to syphon Surfer's powers?

Because if he did then T'challa shouldn't even have been able to move Surfer. And even if he could do that then Surfer would have like 100 ways of getting out of there in less then moments. All without harming T'challa.

Magneto_X

08-27-2008, 03:11 PM

Can't believe we're re-hashing this.

For the Surfer:

1. Does the Surfer have joints?

2. Is the Surfer between 5'0 and 6'6?

If the answer is yes, than the move is valid.

3. Is the Surfer well versed in hand to hand combat?

If no, the move is valid.

The move is invalid because BP doesn't have the strength to move any limb of a cosmic which gets bored by the Hulk hitting them repeatedly with his best shots.

It would be like you or I grabbing a full grown elephant's trunk and attempting to pull the animal in a certain direction.

This actually falls under character induced stupidity. The Surfer "let" BP grab him to think he had the upper hand in combat by letting T'Challa move his arm.

That's the only reason I can think of that scene making sense.

BP's strong but not a cosmic in strength.

4. Is it possible that the syphoning of his powers resulted in a "daze"?

If so, than the move is valid.

That happened only after the armbar. BP had to run off to get that.

Did he attempt to restrain Surfer at his full power?

The Surfer is a character with standard strength of the Hulk and can amplify it up at a moment's notice.

A Surfer at full power and not holding back would have killed BP in picoseconds in thousands of different ways. That's the power level Norrin is at.

Did BP just grab him, or did he use a specific technique?

BP and SS were fighting in unarmed combat. Any technique he used would be pointless. Silver Surfer doesn't even have a physical body like T'Challa. He's a solid, indestructable construct.

XPac

08-27-2008, 03:13 PM

Didn't he do the armbar thing before he even brought the machine that was used to syphon Surfer's powers?

Because if he did then T'challa shouldn't even have been able to move Surfer. And even if he could do that then Surfer would have like 100 ways of getting out of there in less then moments. All without harming T'challa.

The realistic way that scene should be written is BP trying vainly to move SS's arm, and SS just standing there staring at him and wondering WTF he's doing.

Actually the realistic scene would be BP not being stupid enough to bother trying it in the first place because he SHOULD be smart enough to know that he'd have no chance in hell of being able to do that to SS. He's simply not strong enough to move SS's arm.

It was a badly written scene all around that made no sense whatsoever.

XPac

08-27-2008, 03:18 PM

Can't believe we're re-hashing this.

For the Surfer:

1. Does the Surfer have joints?

2. Is the Surfer between 5'0 and 6'6?

If the answer is yes, than the move is valid.

3. Is the Surfer well versed in hand to hand combat?

If no, the move is valid.

4. Is it possible that the syphoning of his powers resulted in a "daze"?

If so, than the move is valid.

For BP:

Did he attempt to restrain Surfer at his full power?

Did BP just grab him, or did he use a specific technique?

This is why there's more conversation about the SS armbar than many other instances of bad writing see wee.

Because in the case of the armbar, there are people that are actually trying to defend it and argue it actually makes sense that BP is strong enough to put someone with class 100 strength into such a predicament. And not shockingly, many many many people don't buy it at all.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 04:04 PM

Question. Who would be upset if BP got a Wolverine-like boost? :smile:

XPac

08-27-2008, 05:21 PM

Question. Who would be upset if BP got a Wolverine-like boost? :smile:

I'm not sure what you mean. You mean a Wolverine like boost in terms of his powers, or in terms of writers just writing him ridiculously uber?

In regards to the former, I'd argue that giving him more powers wouldn't be unreasonable... though the fact that he already has armor to boost his physical states probably makes it unecessary.

In the case of the latter, I'd argue Hudlin is already trying to write him like a 90's Wolverine. And similar to Wolverine in the 90's, there's a bit of a backlash from it.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 05:34 PM

I'm not sure what you mean. You mean a Wolverine like boost in terms of his powers, or in terms of writers just writing him ridiculously uber?

In regards to the former, I'd argue that giving him more powers wouldn't be unreasonable... though the fact that he already has armor to boost his physical states probably makes it unecessary.

In the case of the latter, I'd argue Hudlin is already trying to write him like a 90's Wolverine. And similar to Wolverine in the 90's, there's a bit of a backlash from it.

In terms of powers.

Also why is there backlash? If he is connected to a his god, and that is where he draws powers... it's explainable.

Characters get boast all the time. But when BP does/if he does there is a issue.

XPac

08-27-2008, 05:43 PM

In terms of powers.

Also why is there backlash? If he is connected to a his god, and that is where he draws powers... it's explainable.

Characters get boast all the time. But when BP does/if he does there is a issue.

Partly because it's never been explained that being connected to a god gives him any extra superhuman powers.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 05:50 PM

Partly because it's never been explained that being connected to a god gives him any extra superhuman powers.

But it was never explained for a lot of characters... BP has a mystical side that is offend ignored. Plus, Wolverine over the years, got boast after boast. No complaints… same with other characters.

I saying If a writer came along and give BP class 10-25 ton strength, speed and agility… you would have folk crying and having heart attacks. Even if it would explainable.

I will say this. RH hasn't don't a very good job. In my opinion. I really like Jason Aarons BP better.

DaeJi

08-27-2008, 05:58 PM

But it was never explained for a lot of characters... BP has a mystical side that is offend ignored. Plus, Wolverine over the years, got boast after boast. No complaints… same with other characters.

You're kidding, right? People have been complaining about Wolverine for YEARS.

I saying If a writer came along and give BP class 10-25 ton strength, speed and agility… you would have folk crying and having heart attacks. Even if it would explainable.

No, the point is is that the armbar wasn't explainable. If there was a reason that he was able to do it, that's a different story. But there wasn't.

XPac

08-27-2008, 05:59 PM

But it was never explained for a lot of characters... BP has a mystical side that is offend ignored. Plus, Wolverine over the years, got boast after boast. No complaints… same with other characters.

I saying If a writer came along and give BP class 10-25 ton strength, speed and agility… you would have folk crying and having heart attacks. Even if it would explainable.

I will say this. RH hasn't don't a very good job. In my opinion. I really like Jason Aarons BP better.

Even if he had 10-25 strength, most people still probably wouldn't buy him doing that to the Silver Surfer. Surfer is a cosmic being with class 100 strength.

But that's besides the point. There are handbooks that state a characters powers and power level. None of them have ever cited BP has having superhuman powers. If it doesn't state it in the comics or the handbooks state that his power levels are boosted, so no one is assuming that this is the case.

And for the record, plenty of people complain about some of Wolverines high end showings too.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 06:05 PM

Even if he had 10-25 strength, most people still probably wouldn't buy him doing that to the Silver Surfer. Surfer is a cosmic being with class 100 strength.

But that's besides the point. There are handbooks that state a characters powers and power level. None of them have ever cited BP has having superhuman powers. If it doesn't state it in the comics or the handbooks state that his power levels are boosted, so no one is assuming that this is the case.

And for the record, plenty of people complain about some of Wolverines high end showings too.

I am not talking about the Arm bar... about him being boasted now...

I saying in general if he got one...

and I have "Marvel Your Universe" which states "Each Black Panther partakes of a heart-shaped herb found at Mount Kanda, which grants them low-level superhuman ablities, and a mystical connection to he Panther God."

So basically, there is ground work for a boast if a writer wanted too.:smile:

XPac

08-27-2008, 06:12 PM

I am not talking about the Arm bar... about him being boasted now...

I saying in general if he got one...

and I have "Marvel Your Universe" which states "Each Black Panther partakes of a heart-shaped herb found at Mount Kanda, which grants them low-level superhuman ablities, and a mystical connection to he Panther God."

So basically, there is ground work for a boast if a writer wanted too.:smile:

My understanding was that the only thing superhuman about BP was his sense... but it's hard to tell sometimes. If he's superhuman in regards to his strength and agility, I think he's barely superhuman.

But if they wanted to make him more powerful, they certainly could. His armor seems to make him almost a match for Doom, so even without the power upgrade he does have a means of upgrading his physical stats.

But the reason that some of his feats, like his dreaded armbar of Doom on the SS is so criticised is because they didn't bother explaining it. Priest made the attempt when he had BP deal with Mephisto... and that's a part of the reason why it's nowhere near as criticized. The bottom line is that it was well written, so people bought it. The armbar was badly written, so it wasn't. It's as simple as that.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 06:14 PM

My understanding was that the only thing superhuman about BP was his sense... but it's hard to tell sometimes. If he's superhuman in regards to his strength and agility, I think he's barely superhuman.

But if they wanted to make him more powerful, they certainly could. His armor seems to make him almost a match for Doom, so even without the power upgrade he does have a means of upgrading his physical stats.

But the reason that some of his feats, like his dreaded armbar of Doom on the SS is so criticised is because they didn't bother explaining it. Priest made the attempt when he had BP deal with Mephisto... and that's a part of the reason why it's nowhere near as criticized. The bottom line is that it was well written, so people bought it. The armbar was badly written, so it wasn't. It's as simple as that.

I'm not going to argue about the arm bar. It was very poor.

GuiltyPleasure

08-27-2008, 06:18 PM

There's a perfectly good BP #40 issue that was released today. Why don't you guys discuss the new issue instead of rehasing old arguments.

XPac

08-27-2008, 06:21 PM

There's a perfectly good BP #40 issue that was released today. Why don't you guys discuss the new issue instead of rehasing old arguments.

The reason it's being discussed is purely because someone specifically asked why people have a problem with it. That's all.

And issue 40 at least has it's own preview thread.

Umbra

08-27-2008, 06:24 PM

There's a perfectly good BP #40 issue that was released today. Why don't you guys discuss the new issue instead of rehasing old arguments.

Awesome issue. I wish Aaron was the reg on Panther. I mean, that is how I envision him being.

da gooch

08-27-2008, 06:46 PM

da gooch

08-27-2008, 07:01 PM

The reason it's being discussed is purely because someone specifically asked why people have a problem with it. That's all.

And issue 40 at least has it's own preview thread.

it is being discuseed because people enjoy beating a dead hore until it is live again and then beating it some more,

XPac

08-27-2008, 07:10 PM

it is being discuseed because people enjoy beating a dead hore until it is live again and then beating it some more,

Like I said. someone specifically ASKED why people have problems with the BP/SS fight.

Sorry if you have a problem with people taking the time to answer another posters question. But that's sort of how discussion boards work.

bluedmighty

08-27-2008, 07:18 PM

The move is invalid because BP doesn't have the strength to move any limb of a cosmic which gets bored by the Hulk hitting them repeatedly with his best shots.

It would be like you or I grabbing a full grown elephant's trunk and attempting to pull the animal in a certain direction.

This actually falls under character induced stupidity. The Surfer "let" BP grab him to think he had the upper hand in combat by letting T'Challa move his arm.

That's the only reason I can think of that scene making sense.

BP's strong but not a cosmic in strength.

That happened only after the armbar. BP had to run off to get that.

The Surfer is a character with standard strength of the Hulk and can amplify it up at a moment's notice.

A Surfer at full power and not holding back would have killed BP in picoseconds in thousands of different ways. That's the power level Norrin is at.

BP and SS were fighting in unarmed combat. Any technique he used would be pointless. Silver Surfer doesn't even have a physical body like T'Challa. He's a solid, indestructable construct.

Fair.

I couldn't recall if the move happned before or after the drain.

Are you saying that everyone who's moved the Surfer's arm is class 100 in strength?

XPac

08-27-2008, 07:24 PM

Fair.

I couldn't recall if the move happned before or after the drain.

Are you saying that everyone who's moved the Surfer's arm is class 100 in strength?

Surfer has Class 100 strength... to grapple with someone that strong, you have to be really up there in the strength department.

But what frankly made the whole thing worse is that BP was even telling SS to his face that he was going to break his arm. McDuffie went all out here in putting BP over... unfortunately for him, that sort of backfired.

Omegastorm

08-27-2008, 07:38 PM

There's a perfectly good BP #40 issue that was released today. Why don't you guys discuss the new issue instead of rehasing old arguments.

Feel free to spoil as much as you want.

o

The Cool Thatguy

08-27-2008, 08:30 PM

It was not hudlins pen that wrote the silver surfer fight, it was mcduffies'

Yeah, I know and that's what I said. Helps if you read what I say, ya know.

Excelsior

08-27-2008, 09:59 PM

Umbra

08-27-2008, 10:09 PM

I still have a problem with the whole Panther armlock disdain. I mean the wasp flew into Galactus's eyelets and staggered him to the ground in FF #243. But no one calls that hack writing and bring it up ad nauseum.

Anyways, Im moving on. Panther #40 was awesome. The thing I love the most is not the chess moves between invader and defender, but the obvious respect and thought AAron has placed on this installment of the SI: crossover. I have nothing but praise. I suggest if anyone hasnt read his Scalped series they buy the trade collection and give it a read.

I totally agree about issue # 40. BP is AWESOME... i mean that is the way i think of him, and everyone will get to see just how badass he really is.

Storm is going to cut loose next issue watch... sadly, this will be the last (#41) until 09...

I'm starting to think BP is going to be canceled and replaced with a Storm/BP book.

But at least the queen is going to get to shine in her mini coming up soon.

Excelsior

08-27-2008, 10:15 PM

I totally agree about issue # 40. BP is AWESOME... i mean that is the way i think of him, and everyone will get to see just how badass he really is.

Storm is going to cut loose next issue watch... sadly, this will be the last (#41) until 09...

I'm starting to think BP is going to be canceled and replaced with a Storm/BP book.

But at least the queen is going to get to shine in her mini coming up soon.

Storm and BP is not a bad consolation prize....if it is done. A pregnant Storm would be even better. :biggrin:

At least Aaron and those involved with Panther over the years have shown the character as viable. that being said, a definite strategy is needed to move both BP and Storm forward.

The readers are there, look at the first launch under Preist and Hudlin, those sales numbers are decent. The quality of the work must exceed expectation- a hard task, indeed.

What Panther and Storm need is a fresh take, Ala Claremont with the X-men in the 70's. Or Simonson with Thor in the 80's. Someone willing to try something epically human. I have to admit I have every issue of Panther ever printed, but I do not have a grasp of who the character is. maybe its the notion that Panther must be everything to everybody thats to blame. BP is a landmine character, one wrong step by any creator and BOOM!

IMHO, the one of the problems I have seen in every incarnation is the Panther is often defined by the events around him. I know every character needs a foil but it behooves anyone that writes this character to have a firm grip on who the character is before he faces this foil. Perhaps flashbacks to his early teachings, how this Man T'challa was forged. what are his values?? Who taught him them? who is this man T'Challa.

Meanwhile, Storm is an entirely different entity. She is a well defined character in search of a foil. That is why the BP/Panther marriage fits to me. Panther is the leader of a small nation with tremendous outside pressure to capitulate to join the world, so to speak. But problems abound. Without his notice or perhaps he was the cause, some Wakandans have become Xenophobic paranoids. Maybe Storm could be their social and emotional liberator.

Regardless, Its time to reconcile---for Wakanda to open up in some way and Storm could lead the outcry. No man or woman is an island. and for those who have tried to live in this fashion it has always ended in disaster.

I propose a split Wakanda for a duration--one side willing to engage all points of the compass in diplomatic terms and the other clinging to old tradition. This plot would showcase both characters by their differences and their sameness. In the end, Wakanda can become united and if done well the whole could be greater than its parts.

tfresca

08-28-2008, 08:03 AM

The Cat

08-28-2008, 09:42 AM

Is this series cancelled? I'm really enjoying it and I'm looking forward to seeing how BP gets out of this mess. Also isn't this a bad time to a cancel the series witht the animated show coming out so soon?

I dont think the comic is being cancelled. Instead I think a possible "rebranding" of the title may occur (BP & Storm).

If this is the case expect a new creative team (editor/artist/inker) and possible co-writer to emerge.

Umbra

08-28-2008, 10:48 AM

I dont think the comic is being cancelled. Instead I think a possible "rebranding" of the title may occur (BP & Storm).

If this is the case expect a new creative team (editor/artist/inker) and possible co-writer to emerge.

That really needs to happen.

Umbra

08-28-2008, 10:55 AM

Storm and BP is not a bad consolation prize....if it is done. A pregnant Storm would be even better. :biggrin:

At least Aaron and those involved with Panther over the years have shown the character as viable. that being said, a definite strategy is needed to move both BP and Storm forward.

The readers are there, look at the first launch under Preist and Hudlin, those sales numbers are decent. The quality of the work must exceed expectation- a hard task, indeed.

What Panther and Storm need is a fresh take, Ala Claremont with the X-men in the 70's. Or Simonson with Thor in the 80's. Someone willing to try something epically human. I have to admit I have every issue of Panther ever printed, but I
do not have a grasp of who the character is. maybe its the notion that Panther must be everything to everybody thats to blame. BP is a landmine character, one wrong step by any creator and BOOM!

IMHO, the one of the problems I have seen in every incarnation is the Panther is often defined by the events around him. I know every character needs a foil but it behooves anyone that writes this character to have a firm grip on who the character is before he faces this foil. Perhaps flashbacks to his early teachings, how this Man T'challa was forged. what are his values?? Who taught him them? who is this man T'Challa.

Meanwhile, Storm is an entirely different entity. She is a well defined character in search of a foil. That is why the BP/Panther marriage fits to me. Panther is the leader of a small nation with tremendous outside pressure to capitulate to join the world, so to speak. But problems abound. Without his notice or perhaps he was the cause, some Wakandans have become Xenophobic paranoids. Maybe Storm could be their social and emotional liberator.

Regardless, Its time to reconcile---for Wakanda to open up in some way and Storm could lead the outcry. No man or woman is an island. and for those who have tried to live in this fashion it has always ended in disaster.

I propose a split Wakanda for a duration--one side willing to engage all points of the compass in diplomatic terms and the other clinging to old tradition. This plot would showcase both characters by their differences and their sameness. In the end, Wakanda can become united and if done well the whole could be greater than its parts.

Well said.

I agree, who is the Panther. It's a issue and I think one of the reason it's hard to write him. I will say this... I really like Aaron's version of BP. I mean he is what I think he should be. But there are a lot of things that are not explained about him.

Like for example. What is the Thriced-Blessed Armor? What are the THROBs and Prowlers? How does BP train... there is so much potential. His connection to the Panther God (Bast the Panther goddest?)...his mystical nature... the Panther guard...there is so much potential that RH has not tapped into.

Also with Storm, *spoiler*

she kinda looks pregnant in #40.:eek:

Excelsior

08-28-2008, 02:23 PM

A training sequence would indeed rock. Also I would love to see the Wakandan King's Library..it probably surpasses the congressional or even the Jedi temple's version.

akumasan

08-28-2008, 02:46 PM

So what, Panther shouldn't be smart enough to hurt the Devil?
Or maybe his men would be smart enough to do it. Besides the main story arc is about Ross anyway. Which would have done nothing to Mephisto. Spiderman would need to use high end magic and tech to make the devil actually hurt.
There was a reason why I said Spiderman because wasnt Dr Strange around? Well the longer he remains out of his realm the weaker he gets too so who knows. BP used science and magic to defeat him in Priest's run. Not that it kept Mephisto down for long.
I know this but I just still think it isnt believable no matter how many times a person will say.

BP did when he beat Mephisto and only did it to SS after he defeated a fully powered Norrin who held back by putting him in an armbar.
I'll admit it is a bit odd but honestly he had a great run on FF. So we shouldnt knock him for his one slip up. If that is the case we should do the same for every writer that has done some form of a slip up. For example Casey writing where he had dialogue where i think sebastian shaw was comparing Magnento to jesus or as the messiah to mutants in Xmen Legacy or the dialogue by guggenheim where wolverine was comparing a burning cross vs a sentinal in wolverine in a convo with Luke Cage and Luke looked like a confused moron

He did not use any magic or super technology to defeat SS in combat the first time. It was a street brawl. That's why people don't like it.
Even if it was explained or believable people would still complain.

Priest writes a competent, interesting, believable BP. Hudlin does not. That's why his run is criticially acclaimed while Hudlin's isn't.
No matter how many times we say this where were these "fans" when he was writing? Im still trying to figure it out.

However, if you're trying to argue that both instances are deserving of criticsm I can live with that. I don't have a huge problem with people saying what Priest did was a bit far fetched... the point being made here is simply that Priest did a much better job writing and at least trying to justify the scenario.

McDuffie chose to justify the scene with a ridiculous monologue from BP explaining how he can break SS's arm... basically exposing to the world just how stupid his version of BP actually is. Thats the bad thing about bad writing... it didn't just make SS look bad, it made BP look like a moron too (in additon to reflecting very poorly on the writer).
1. Yes in a way because the long convo between mephisto answering questions from Ross like it is a talk show interview is so believable. LOL
2. Then why didnt he expose to the world of how to defeat Mephisto if he is so smart lol.

XPac

08-28-2008, 02:55 PM

1. Yes in a way because the long convo between mephisto answering questions from Ross like it is a talk show interview is so believable. LOL
2. Then why didnt he expose to the world of how to defeat Mephisto if he is so smart lol.

If you didn't like Priests handling of the situation, again I would say that's fair. I still believe that Priests handling was better than McDuffies... but that's just my opinion. Anytime you're pitting BP against a cosmic level being, you're pushing it a bit.

As for your second point... I guess BP is just really protective of his secrets. He's not willing to expose to the world the cure for cancer, even though it would save countless lives in Africa alone.

In regards specifically to McDuffie's FF run... it was hit and miss. I thought the characterization was great. I though most of the storylines started out really well, but they all ended up kind of flat. They seemed rushed, before moving onto the next thing. I also had issues with how McDuffie handled his last story arc with Reeds time travel and psycho history. But that's me.

Honestly, I haven't really loved an FF run since Waid.

The Cool Thatguy

08-28-2008, 03:01 PM

If you didn't like Priests handling of the situation, again I would say that's fair. I still believe that Priests handling was better than McDuffies... but that's just my opinion. Anytime you're pitting BP against a cosmic level being, you're pushing it a bit.

As for your second point... I guess BP is just really protective of his secrets. He's not willing to expose to the world the cure for cancer, even though it would save countless lives in Africa alone.

In regards specifically to McDuffie's FF run... it was hit and miss. I thought the characterization was great. I though most of the storylines started out really well, but they all ended up kind of flat. They seemed rushed, before moving onto the next thing. I also had issues with how McDuffie handled his last story arc with Reeds time travel and psycho history. But that's me.

Honestly, I haven't really loved an FF run since Waid.

Kinda a shame about the Silver Surfer arc really. I got the impression McDuffie was trying to fix a 'mistake' by resurrecting Gravity, who McDuffie only killed because they were gonna bring him back as Captain Marvel.

McDuffie was trying to do right by the character and it really misfired.

akumasan

08-28-2008, 03:14 PM

In regards specifically to McDuffie's FF run... it was hit and miss. I thought the characterization was great. I though most of the storylines started out really well, but they all ended up kind of flat. They seemed rushed, before moving onto the next thing. I also had issues with how McDuffie handled his last story arc with Reeds time travel and psycho history. But that's me.

Honestly, I haven't really loved an FF run since Waid.

Wow even millar?

XPac

08-28-2008, 03:18 PM

Wow even millar?

That's kind of hit and miss too, in my view. I wish that book was out of continuity, since it just doesn't feel like a part of the MU.

I also think FF shows certain Loebish elements with his CAP robot owning then entire MU. Now sure how I feel about Galactus being jobbed out again too.

There are things I DO like about it (and McDuffie's FF run for that matter). I'm not completely knocking it. But little things here and there take away from me really loving the book.

XPac

08-28-2008, 03:19 PM

Kinda a shame about the Silver Surfer arc really. I got the impression McDuffie was trying to fix a 'mistake' by resurrecting Gravity, who McDuffie only killed because they were gonna bring him back as Captain Marvel.

McDuffie was trying to do right by the character and it really misfired.

Yeah. Gravity ended up being a waste. They should have at least made him protector of the universe, even if he wasn't going to be Captain Marvel.

akumasan

08-28-2008, 03:30 PM

That's kind of hit and miss too, in my view. I wish that book was out of continuity, since it just doesn't feel like a part of the MU.

I also think FF shows certain Loebish elements with his CAP robot owning then entire MU. Now sure how I feel about Galactus being jobbed out again too.

There are things I DO like about it (and McDuffie's FF run for that matter). I'm not completely knocking it. But little things here and there take away from me really loving the book.

I heard about this CAP Robot. This is the same robot created by reed's ex right? What did susan do to this chick? I hope she did something a wife would do to another woman trying to get her man.

Excelsior

08-28-2008, 04:05 PM

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/uploaded/BLACK%20PANTHER%202099_1image_big.jpg

Black Panther 2099

COVER BY: Pat Lee
WRITER: Robert Kirkman
PENCILS: Kyle Hotz
INKS: Kyle Hotz
COLORED BY: Jose Villarrubia
LETTERED BY: Dave Sharpe

bushboy

08-28-2008, 04:06 PM

akumasan

08-28-2008, 05:07 PM

First BP comic I ever read.

how was the book by the way?

Well i'll add my first BP read

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/41181-6496-46488-1-black-panther_super.jpg

GuiltyPleasure

08-28-2008, 05:08 PM

she kinda looks pregnant in #40.:eek:

I seriously doubt she is pregnant, probably just poor proportional drawing on the part of the artist. The same could be said for the way her hair has been blonde instead of white for the last two issues. IMO the entire physical depiction from the face to the body seemed off to me. I do however hope that in the third and final issue that Aaron allows Storm to shine and put foot to Skrull a$$. Up to this point her role has been uneventful. I also hope that the new year will bring a BP/Storm cotitle or a different title that represents their status as a power couple in the MU. While I am not a hater or lover of RH the couple that he created, marketed, and advocated need to be written to their full potential. If this is done, the comic will be one of the more popular ones and draw in a wide range of fans, especially with the BP cartoon coming soon to a tv near you.

Umbra

08-28-2008, 05:30 PM

I seriously doubt she is pregnant, probably just poor proportional drawing on the part of the artist. The same could be said for the way her hair has been blonde instead of white for the last two issues. IMO the entire physical depiction from the face to the body seemed off to me. I do however hope that in the third and final issue that Aaron allows Storm to shine and put foot to Skrull a$$. Up to this point her role has been uneventful. I also hope that the new year will bring a BP/Storm cotitle or a different title that represents their status as a power couple in the MU. While I am not a hater or lover of RH the couple that he created, marketed, and advocated need to be written to their full potential. If this is done, the comic will be one of the more popular ones and draw in a wide range of fans, especially with the BP cartoon coming soon to a tv near you.

I can agree with that... about her being pregnant, I just starting to trouble with the haters. :)

Excelsior

08-28-2008, 07:57 PM

First BP comic I ever read.

Here is mine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Fantasticfour52.jpg

bushboy

08-28-2008, 08:02 PM

how was the book by the way?

Well i'll add my first BP read

I liked it, and it introduced me to some of my current favorites: Robert Kirkman, Pat Lee(cover), and of course Black Panther. If not for that issue I might not have picked up BP #1 not to long afterwards. The rest is history :smile:

Magneto_X

08-28-2008, 09:28 PM

Or maybe his men would be smart enough to do it.

Who's men? T'Challa's?

Besides the main story arc is about Ross anyway.

Ross had nothing to do with BP beating Mephisto.

There was a reason why I said Spiderman because wasnt Dr Strange around?

Dr Strange doing all the work means Spiderman still won't be doing anything harmful to Mephisto.

Well the longer he remains out of his realm the weaker he gets too so who knows.

Mephisto isn't as strong as he is in his realm. There he's in Galactus power range. He is still a cosmic who can give Surfer tough battles outside of it. He doesn't become a street leveler any meta-human can knock out with a punch.

I know this but I just still think it isnt believable no matter how many times a person will say.

It's more believable then BP beating SS in a fist fight.

I'll admit it is a bit odd but honestly he had a great run on FF. So we shouldnt knock him for his one slip up. If that is the case we should do the same for every writer that has done some form of a slip up. For example Casey writing where he had dialogue where i think sebastian shaw was comparing Magnento to jesus or as the messiah to mutants in Xmen Legacy or the dialogue by guggenheim where wolverine was comparing a burning cross vs a sentinal in wolverine in a convo with Luke Cage and Luke looked like a confused moron

I like McDuffie. I enjoyed his FF run but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism when he writes a scene which doesn't make sense.

Even if it was explained or believable people would still complain.

No, they wouldn't.

No matter how many times we say this where were these "fans" when he was writing? Im still trying to figure it out.

They were there reading his books. I was one of them.

Critical acclaimed work doesn't always sell well but Priest had that with his BP run.