Is my art original enough to get published?

[SAndrews]

My submission was rejected by a well known publisher on the grounds it was too derivative of another top comic artist. What do you guys think? Here is a few pages of what I submitted:

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/page6.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/page3.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/SLR_coverpaintingPRELIM.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/Feinbildportrait.jpg

[Liberty Belle Fan]

It looks good to me, Simon!

I especially like the detail in the first image of the big guy's face. Nice work, keep on putting yourself out there, you are talented.

[DaveRothe]

Yeah I like your work too. Just because one publisher says no doesn't mean they all will. Keep up the good work Simon!

[AlternaPete]

i'm a publisher - and i can't figure out what artist that publisher thinks you are too similar to.

all i know is that art is more than good enough to be published - take it on over to us at Alterna!

[Generic Eric]

There's more than one comic book publisher out there. Just keep on keeping on. If your only problem was that your art was too stylistic, drawing from life and photographes should demolish any 'style' your unsatisfied with.

[Ryan Day]

I see some Simon Bisley and Ashley Wood, but not in a "copying their work" kind of way.

Besides, since when do the major publishers worry about "too derivative?" Sometimes it seems like 80% of the artists out there are still trying to copy Jim Lee.

It's probably too stylized for Marvel & DC's tastes, but IDW might dig this. Maybe Dark Horse, too.

[Khan Zor-El]

Your art kicks ass!!! Try Dark Horse, I wanna see you draw Star Wars or better yet, Conan!!!

[aut0matic]

you'd still be qualified if you had 1/2 the talent you showed in these sketches.. i think u the shit :cool:

[Slackjaws_ate_my_brain]

It looks solid to me. Nice framing and a good sense of story-telling. Better than 75% of the "comic book artist wanna-be" guys that i went to art school with. It kinda reminds me of older Judge Dredd comics, which is in no way a bad thing.

[SAndrews]

thanks for the comments... what you guys are saying makes sense to me. What that editor said just baffles me.

this comicbook business continues to mystify me...
-simon

[Khan Zor-El]

It's shady, don't let anyone act like they don't need your talants, you have something good going on here. What book(s) would you personally like to work on, Simon?

[SAndrews]

funny you mentioned conan, that would be a dream job ;) I dunno its hard to say about other books - almost any aliens series would be great. I suppose any well written title with muscles, machines , chicks, carnage. That being said, the most interesting stuff to me right now is my own stuff.

-simon

[Khan Zor-El]

Where can I see more of your art, and are you writing your own comics? It'd be cool if you could do a Terminator or Aliens vs Predator mini.

[diablo7]

i think your art looks great, i'd buy a book with your art in it :) what's probably sad it that an editor told you your art was too derivative of another artist but they would probably hire someone that drew like david finch...

[BeastieRunner]

Bullshit. You kick ass! I would buy that art with a good story. Do you need a writer?

[Justin D.]

I think the art looks great. I'd say the backgrounds are lacking, but I get the feeling that's intentional. Like Ryan Day, I see hints of Simon Bisley and Ashley Wood, but also Ariel Olivetti.

What artist did the publisher say yours reminded him of?

[GRANT!]

You need to work on the rendering of your faces but I think it looks amazing. Just keep plugging away.

[SAndrews]

Justin - he said it was derivative of bisley's stuff

[PamGrierOverdrive]

The Simon Bisley influence is obviously heavy, but you have your own flavor as well. The detail and texture are top notch. With the number of Jim Lee and Marc Silvestri clones running around, not to mention the similarity amongst artists within the Invincible/Wolf-Man/Brit universe, it astounds me that work of your quality is being passed over for such BS reasons. Lots of companies out there would benefit from your stuff.

[kidvictory]

That art looks great to me - definitely shop around.

I don't know what artist it's "derivative" of - but even if your style was an EXACT DUPLICATE of an artist - so what?! As long as it's not tracing or swiping - so what?!

If someone's art was "derivative" of John Romita ( or insert favorite artist here) and the writer's writing was similar to Bendis (or insert favorite author here) . . .umm - wouldn't that be a cool book to read?

I'm a writer and when I look for an artist, if I found someone who's style was similar to a popular artist I liked - I would seek them out NOT turn them away.

Bottom line - you have good work - and if your story strikes the right chord with an editor, you should find a willing publisher. It didn't strike the right chord with this particular editor, but don't give up. Don't let any 1 or sometimes 10 publishers decide your fate.

Now if someone said, "anatomy" needs work - layouts are static - etc . . (which they're not to me - just an example) you have something constructive to improve upon. But I don't understand the derivative thing - keep submitting - you're very talented!

Frankly, there are a million and one reasons why a book doesn't get published and it's not always about whether the creators are talented. Sure, you have your share of American Idol-like deluded fans who "think" they're good, but there are also intangibles you cannot control, like:

A similar pitch that was just greenlighted - the particular taste of the editor/publisher, etc . . .

Keep pitching that project!

[The Adventurer]

I see some Simon Bisley and Ashley Wood,


You read my mind to the T. And a very interesting unique combination if I do say so.


I love the look going on in those pics. Have you thought of doing some short stories and hosting them online? Doing a regular webcomic could help get you the exposure you need because you definitly have a lot of raw talent.

Its possible the "publisher" you speak off might see your work as too indie. There is a definite indie flare too it, that mainstream publishers might not be interested in. But that's not a bad thing, it just means the big publishers are too closed minded to new unique styles.

Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged.

You might want to fire some samples to UK based 2000AD (http://www.2000adonline.com/?zone=submissions&page=artists), your style could fit right in over on that title.

[SAndrews]

Thanks for the amazing support. You guys have some great insights I never really considered before. The webcomic suggestion sounds interesting...

simon

[Red Jack]

My submission was rejected by a well known publisher on the grounds it was too derivative of another top comic artist. What do you guys think? Here is a few pages of what I submitted:

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/page6final.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/page3final.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/SLR_cover_small.jpg

http://simon26354.googlepages.com/Feinbildportraitprelim_small.jpg

Yeah, Whoever that was, they need their heads examined.

You're a killer. I thought of Bisley but I wouldn't say "derivative." Influenced by.

[The Adventurer]

And that Robot on the cover seems to have some Kevin O'Neil going on. Or am I now seeing influences that aren't really there?

I'm just seeing a lot of UK/European influences in general the your work there.

[Valen]

Hell yeah your art is good enough to get published!

It is a shame that sometimes the major publishers get locked into trends of art, but I think we may finally be moving beyond that phase. Good luck in getting published.

[Khan Zor-El]

Hey Simon, just for shitz&grins draw us Conan swinging an axe and lopping some heads off.

[SAndrews]

someone was asking what my women looked like..here's a quick sketch...


i've never drawn conan before, so i might need to practice a bit ;)


-simon

[The Adventurer]

*tilts head*

Her boobs are very... big.

Awesome.

[SAndrews]

I make my women 8 breasts high

[SAndrews]

sorry, repost of the above reply....

[Yoel]

Mate, your work is fantastic. Love your style.
Just a thought (and I may be way off here), but the publisher that rejected your work might have been testing your resolve. As in 'does this artist really have what it takes to survive in this business. Yes he's got the talent, but can he handle rejection?'

Anyway, I think you've got the goods. Stick at it and don't give up - I would love to see your work published and will definately support it if it does!

[Erik Burnham]

Y'know, I see similarities to other artists (tip of my tongue type)

But so what?

The careers of John Byrne, Bill Sienkiewicz, Ron Frenz, and many more started off as being "derivative."

I think the rejection was just a case of "I don't like it, because it reminds me of..."

Ah well.

Good stuff. I'd work with ya any day! (;

[DonC]

Justin - he said it was derivative of bisley's stuff


I would agree with this. You would need to post more sequentials and include non-action scenes with normal-looking people. Also, it would help if we knew what kind of work you're looking for. Marvel and DC probably wouldn't be all that interested in your style, but an indy publisher might take a chance on you if you can keep a deadline.

[MartinRedmond]

The samples look okay, but that woman drawing is really bad. I guess it looks like Bisley/Corben, if they compared you to Ashley Wood, than they are sadly uneducated.

[timseeley]

I have a weird mutant ability to remember any panel from any comic I've read. So, I guess, I can see where this could have been based on two panels from Simon Bisley's BATMAN vs. JUDGE DREDD, where Mean Machine Angel encounters Batman, and gives him a bonk. If an editor said it looked derivative, I'm guessing this is what he/she was thinking. Even if you did base this on that, I can't see why it would matter to any of the big companies, since most of their "hot" artists are Silvestri and Jim Lee clones.
TIM SEELEY

[the goddamn batman]

if they compared you to Ashley Wood, than they are sadly uneducated.

I see a bit of Ash in there. I see a lot of artists in there... Seinkeiwicz, McMahon, Bisley, Wood... but whatever. It's cool stuff.

Also, as others have said, Seinkeiwicz started out as a Neal Adams clone and Ashely Wood as a Seinkeiwicz clone... then Bill did an intro for one of Ash's art books. Everybody's got to start somewhere.

I'd suggest keep pitching it around. Obviously Marvel and DC are going to pass on this kind of work. You've got to know your publisher.

All that said, if I saw a book like this on the stands, I'd pick it up. Honest.:)

[SAndrews]

thanks for all your comments, i think i know what i need to do now.

-simon

[Schmakt]

I see some Simon Bisley and Ashley Wood, but not in a "copying their work" kind of way.


I immediately thought "Ashley Wood" as well, but it's definitely not a direct knock-off or anything. Yours actually looks a little cleaner with stronger storytelling. The Simon Bisley connection makes sense to me too.

Neither of which are bad things at all. I think those sketches (and your page) look really good too. I'm less likely to buy a book based on the strength of the art than I am to drop a book based on the weakness of the art, so I'd find it hard to say I'd pick up whatever you did...

but I definitely would be happy to see those pencils in a story I was reading. They're not suitable for everything, but there are definitely several genres out there that could benefit from what you're doing.

(I also see a little bit of Howard Chaykin (think: Black Hawk) in your sketch of the soldier character... good stuff!)

Keep at it!

[BrikHed21]

thanks for the comments... what you guys are saying makes sense to me. What that editor said just baffles me.

this comicbook business continues to mystify me...
-simon

I think the art was great - was it your art they were questioning or the writing in your book? Just curious because I see a lot of good stuff in your drawings.

[SAndrews]

schmakt - thanks for the support, never heard of that chakyin guy before...

brickhed -- thanks man! Actually it was just the art the editor had issues with - specifically it was too much like bisley he said, that's it. I doubt he even read the story.

It's annoying because that particular publisher is putting out some pretty questionable quality stuff lately. Since my discussion with that publisher I've come to believe my rejection was based on a personal bias, not art/story quality. And the responses I got from this forum, and others, pretty much erased any doubts I had

simon



-simon

[DonC]

Since my discussion with that publisher I've come to believe my rejection was based on a personal bias, not art/story quality. And the responses I got from this forum, and others, pretty much erased any doubts I had

simon


Don't go quitting your day job just yet. Like Tim Seeley posted, your art is panel-for-panel taken from another book. Comic publishers aren't looking for someone who can copy existing comics, they're looking for people who can draw new, original artwork.

[The Adventurer]

Don't go quitting your day job just yet. Like Tim Seeley posted, your art is panel-for-panel taken from another book. Comic publishers aren't looking for someone who can copy existing comics, they're looking for people who can draw new, original artwork.

That's a bit harsh, unless someone has side by side comparisons, saying he's a swiper seems a bit crass.

[DonC]

Okay, fine. If Tim Seeley is right and his samples were taken from Batman/Judge Dredd: Judgement on Gotham then he needs to come up with his own stuff.

[diablo7]

actually no one's getting headbutted in sandrews pages...it looks like the big guy is trying to intimidate the other one...

[Ryan Day]

Comic publishers aren't looking for someone who can copy existing comics, they're looking for people who can draw new, original artwork.

How do you explain Greg Land, then? :)

It's a fair point, of course, and I'd want to see how he interpreted a script, and maybe some more range... but there's talent there, certainly.

At any rate, I think "you're too derivative of an artist's style", "you copied another artist's layout" and "you need to work on sequential storytelling" are all different complaints.

[SAndrews]

donc, that's a false statement someone made and I don't appreciate your comments in this thread. I think it's pretty obvious I'm not swiping anyone's art or layouts. If you still think I'm "copying panel for panel" some theoretical comic, I can post all 7 pages of what I have done and you can read it for yourself.

nuff said.

-simon

[Brandon Hanvey]

I request that this thread be closed because it is just getting stupid.


I try to keep the closing of threads to a minimum.

Everyone just needs to calm down and act civilly.

[The Adventurer]

Ninja. VANISH

[Schmakt]

donc, that's a false statement someone made and I don't appreciate your comments in this thread. I think it's pretty obvious I'm not swiping anyone's art or layouts. If you still think I'm "copying panel for panel" some theoretical comic, I can post all 7 pages of what I have done and you can read it for yourself.

nuff said.

-simon

I'd kind of like to see all 7 pages if you're not opposed to posting them...

[Ryan Day]

I checked my copy of Batman/Dredd, and there's no layout that's obviously been lifted. I get "similar to Bisley", and I see the similarity between big guys with metal arms, but there's no copying going on.

[timseeley]

I wasn't saying the dude swiped a few panels. I just remember something similar. IF an editor had an adverse reaction, it might be because he she thought it was based on those pages. I personally have no idea if it was. Just trying to help.
TIM

[AlternaPete]

sorry mis-posted guys

[SAndrews]

Full pages can be seen here:

http://simon-andrews1.blogspot.com/

[Micro]

In all honesty I think your artwork is good enough to be published. I do think the spacing and alignment of the panels seems a bit off, but it all looks as good as, and even better than some other stuff I have seen published by many of the big comic studios out there.

I do not know which artist they are saying you look too similar too, but I find the style very unique and you seem be able to us it effectively. I think you should try to either find a writer or work out a story on your own and try to submit it as a limited series to help get your name out there. Best of luck to you, I look forward to seeing your work published some day.

[The Adventurer]

A Robot and a Monkey for sidekicks? You certainly know how to build a cast I want to read about.

[The Adventurer]

A Robot and a Monkey for sidekicks? You certainly know how to build a cast I want to read about.

[Ravengregory]

Not bad. Still have a ways to go but not bad at all. Might want to work on some more samples and vary genres.

As Executive Editor for Zenescope we're big on real world and fantasy. Right now the only thing I see on your blog is sci-fi. If you want to get work in this business people need to see that you can do it all or you limit yourself.

And even if you can do it all that doesn't mean you can hit a deadline. Not saying you can't but deadlines are what makes this world go round.

And FYI - what you did here you should NEVER do. Even if you don't name the company you submitted to, it's still the same as throwing dirt at the unnamed company.

This business is a small close knit community. Everyone knows everyone.

Some good advice. Sumbit to Bob Schreck over at DC and beg him to really tear into your work. He's by far one of if not the best editor in the business today.

Not saying fans opinions aren't good but there are things that editors see that most people never even think about.

[The Adventurer]

Oh hey, Andrews, I thought of something.

You should check out Digital Webbing's Forum (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/index.php?) its like a repository for all kinds of fledging comic writers and artists to show off their wares and get critiqued, and team up for collaborative efforts.

[Kid Kyoto]

thanks for the comments... what you guys are saying makes sense to me. What that editor said just baffles me.

this comicbook business continues to mystify me...
-simon

Publishers (comics, magazines, newspapers, books) have to refuse people all the time because they don't have any work, because the creator does not fit their percieved needs or because whomever sees submissions has no time.

Or because the person has a personal dislike for the work.

So a rejection is a rejection, it doesn't mean you're not good, or you're ripping somoene off or anything. Generally ignore off-the-cuff feedback from a publisher (unless it's very detailed and a clear effort to help you improve). It just means you're not the right guy at the right time and whatever reason they give is just a pretext.

Feedback from teachers, critics, friends, that's good because they have no interests other than helping you out. But publishers have 100 other agendas so there's no point trying to guess what the real reason was.

[SAndrews]

ravengregory, Thanks for the advice.. You're right, it wasn't a hot idea to whine about publisher rejection. Nothing like learning the hard way...
Actually I had mentioned in one of my previous posts, the work you see is a story proposal, not art samples.
I really like your company's lineup btw, you have some great talent over there.

Adventurer-thanks for the great tips, I appreciate them

So many of you have been such great support, both on and off this thread, it has really helped me keep from doubting myself. Anyway...
This story is very different from most stuff on the shelf, I think, and I'm doing a lot of experimenting with the storytelling. In the end I want it to be a sort of guilty pleasure for the reader, a fun read.

-simon



Not bad. Still have a ways to go but not bad at all. Might want to work on some more samples and vary genres.

As Executive Editor for Zenescope we're big on real world and fantasy. Right now the only thing I see on your blog is sci-fi. If you want to get work in this business people need to see that you can do it all or you limit yourself.

[The Adventurer]

Bucking treads is A+ in my book.

Plus, the world needs more over the top sci-fi. Which is what your samples clearly deliver.

[Khan Zor-El]

Full pages can be seen here:

http://simon-andrews1.blogspot.com/

You still da man.

[40footwolf]

If anything, it reminds me a little bit of what Ian Gibson did on Halo Jones, and:

1)That's a fantastic comparison, and

2) Halo Jones came out in 1984 so I'm not sure what this "major publisher's" beef is. You could probably get this to Zuda and have it win, though. Even an okay comic at Zuda is fucking America's Top Comics compared with some of the stuff they have there.

[The Adventurer]

2) Halo Jones came out in 1984 so I'm not sure what this "major publisher's" beef is.

2000AD isn't exactly a "major player" in the comics scene. Though it damn well should be. It has pretty much groomed 90% of all British born comic creators who made it big in the states.

[40footwolf]

2000AD isn't exactly a "major player" in the comics scene. Though it damn well should be. Iit has pretty much groomed 90% of all British born comic creators who made it big in the states however.

I've been wanting to get a subscription to 200AD for so long now, but it's just so expensive if you don't live in the UK.

But I mean, it launched Alan Davis, Alan Moore, Steve Dillon, Grant Morrison, Mark Millar...I mean, Christ, those guys alone automatically give a publisher some respectability.

What I said about it resembling Ian Gibson was just that it is, indeed, a very unique style, and I'm not sure at all what the "major publisher" was getting at with their unoriginality crack.

[twilight]

It reminds me of Sienkiewicz's covers.

I like it.

-Twi

[SAndrews]

Hey thanks twilight!
2000ad is an awesome mag... what i wouldn't give to illustrate Slaine or ABC warriors....;) I've always liked judge dredd too.. i think the writing on that series is just great.

-simon

[Magnificent Bastard]

I'd like to see a little more background in your work. Y'know things like a potted plant in the corner, a crack running down the middle of a wall.

I understand that publishers like to see work with their company characters in them. It helps them see clearer apparently. It's like tailoring your resume to a specific company. ;)

Know what I mean?