Why Joe Quesada's Not Getting Fired

[Mister Mets]

Diamond Comics released the Top 100 sales chart for 2007 (http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/2007_year_end.html) and Marvel dominated with the Top 12 selling titles, 24 of the top 26, and 75 of the top 100. DC took 19 spots in the Top 100, with Dark Horse (the only other publisher to chart in the Top 100) taking the other six.

The best-selling issue of the year?

Captain America #25.

[Rahul]

He may piss off a lot a of people, but he's doing his job well. Its not exactly rocket science.

[drwho]

Strong he is with the dark side of the force. ;) My only problems with Joe is he has ruined Spidey for the past years with his editorial vision. The one character Joe doesnt seem to know what to do with in my opinion.

[DDM]

It's still too early to talk. Give it about 3 months & we'll see...

Furthermore, it's not just about book sales, but how is Joe keeping the brand identity for each book? Under his watch, all of Marvel has turned into one nebulous blob as each book seems to possess the same identity.

[anthony!]

Furthermore, it's not just about book sales, but how is Joe keeping the brand identity for each book? Under his watch, all of Marvel has turned into one nebulous blob as each book seems to possess the same identity.

Easier said than done.

Remember when Marvel books were all divided into categories like Marvel "Edge" and Marvel "Heroes"?... and that was during a time when the books were at there worst quality-wise.

You can see that struggle to find an identity mostly in the Xbooks... where its clear the creators and editors want to give each book a reason for existing, yet I'm sure there's constant pressure to churn out as much "X" as possible.

The 3-times a month Spidey was a good move and I hope it succeeds. I'd love to the X-books to move towards a similar model.

Fact is that the X-Men ought to return to being a single team, in a single book with 6-8 members. The cast is out of control if you ask me.

[a-spidey]

i guess as long as the sales are good there is no reason to fire him.
Anyway, they screwed spider-man up before him and will happen after him,
that is no news because of him.

[drwho]

i guess as long as the sales are good there is no reason to fire him.
Anyway, they screwed spider-man up before him and will happen after him,
that is no news because of him.

I disagree

Gimmicks allowed under Joe's watch

1. Gwen having sex with Norman :rolleyes:
2. Agreeing for organic webshooters to be brought in
3. Giving Peter new supernatural powers WTF
4. Giving Peter a New Iron suit
5. Using Peter to unmask
6. Erasing marriage

To me its just one mess up after another. Joe helped make the character urecognizable to an extent. To me it just shows he had no real vision for the character and was throwing and allowing gimmick after gimmick to be done with Peter. Its Joe's fault.

[DaeJi]

I think overall Joe Q has done more good for Marvel than bad. I mean, sure Spider-Man is an ungodly wreak right now, and the Scarlet Witch needs to be saved from the hole he help dig for her, but other than that (and a few issues here or there), he's done a good job. Just, you know, not with Spider-Man.

[Leocomix]

He's the best EIC Marvel had since... well, I think he's better than Shooter. The guys before Shooter didn't stay long so I guess since Stan Lee.
An EIC has to know better than the fans and that's what he has the guts to have. I guess many would cave in to the sometimes childish views expressed on the internet. He saved Marvel from the brink. Respect. My hat is off to him.

[leebrown1990]

I like were most of Marvel book's are right now, in some cases I might not have liked how they got there 100% (e.g. ASM: OMD,) but JQ has done great work for Marvel, before, and as EIC. I stand firm in saying he's one of the best EIC's Marvel has had (I haven't been round that long so I'm a bit bias.) He's made some big and controversial choices, but I cant think of one that hasn't led some were good. For example House Of M and Civil War may have been controversial at the time, but they've led onto great things, Messiah Complex and Avengers: the Initiative to name but a few. Finally I'm sure OMD will lead on to great new things with BND just like other controversial choices.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I think overall Joe Q has done more good for Marvel than bad. I mean, sure Spider-Man is an ungodly wreak right now, and the Scarlet Witch needs to be saved from the hole he help dig for her, but other than that (and a few issues here or there), he's done a good job. Just, you know, not with Spider-Man.

Agreed (with the exception of the Scarlet Witch, I like her better as an unbalanced mess). I think Joe Q has done an admirable job as EIC in revamping the line and encouraging universal cohesion.


The REAL question is, why isn't Dan Didio being fired for only having 19 books in the top 100. DC only has 7 books in the top 50 and they are ALL JLA! if DC didn't have them they would have been shut out. Looks like the Distinguished Competition is in for some rough times...

[rZi]

His sales are good but his editorial decissions stink at times.

[Crixtala]

He's the best EIC Marvel had since... well, I think he's better than Shooter. The guys before Shooter didn't stay long so I guess since Stan Lee.
An EIC has to know better than the fans and that's what he has the guts to have. I guess many would cave in to the sometimes childish views expressed on the internet. He saved Marvel from the brink. Respect. My hat is off to him.

I agree 100%. If he were to let fan views sway the way he ran things, we'd just have the same stories flying around over and over and over again. Like was said earlier, while some things are controversial at the beginning, they lead to much greater things. Plus, with the upswing of sales that have been created since he's been EIC... we can only imagine where the company would be right now without him. :confused:

I've come to realize that the comic book community is the most pessimistic group of people in existence. They decide something is ruined before they even have it in their hands.

[DeadXMan]

gimmicks used spidey before Joe

let's kill Gwen
let's kill Norman
put him in a black suit that increases his strength and give him organic webs
let's kill Kravan
let's kill tombstone
let's kill harry
Let's kill dewolf
let's marry him off to MJ
let's kill may
let's kill doc ock in order to bring in a sexy version
make him a clone
he has a crazy clone as well
he's not a clone
bring back Norman, have him kill the clone
let's kill baby may in the womb
let's bring back aunt may
let's reboot :rolleyes:

[scratchie]

Furthermore, it's not just about book sales, but how is Joe keeping the brand identity for each book? Under his watch, all of Marvel has turned into one nebulous blob as each book seems to possess the same identity.Actually, it pretty much is all about book sales. They could publish fifteen comics a week titled "Nebulous Blob" and if people bought them, Joe would be doing his job.

[drwho]

gimmicks used spidey before Joe

let's kill Gwen
let's kill Norman
put him in a black suit that increases his strength and give him organic webs
let's kill Kravan
let's kill tombstone
let's kill harry
Let's kill dewolf
let's marry him off to MJ
let's kill may
let's kill doc ock in order to bring in a sexy version
make him a clone
he has a crazy clone as well
he's not a clone
bring back Norman, have him kill the clone
let's kill baby may in the womb
let's bring back aunt may
let's reboot :rolleyes:

Yeah but you realize those are 30 years worth of gimmicks where the ones i mentioned were done pretty much in 3 years i believe.

[pimp1911]

Joe is keeping the shareholders happy. As long as that keeps happening he is in there like a tick on a dog.

[Noronha]

gimmicks used spidey before Joe

let's kill Gwen-2nd Best story ever,and change the face of the comic industry for ever
let's kill Norman-see above
put him in a black suit that increases his strength and give him organic webs-beautiful suit and brought one of the best periods in spidey history(and it didn´t increase his strength at the time,that was added later by the cartoon and when he merged with Eddie)
let's kill Kravan-One of the most acclaimed story ever,gave meaning to a c-list villain
let's kill tombstone-is this a gimmick?
let's kill harry-fitting end for a character that was "dead" already,plus unbelievably well writen
Let's kill dewolf-Best story ever
let's marry him off to MJ-so bad it lasted 20 years before someone decided it needed to go away,and the worst stories ever happened every time someone tried to get rid of it
let's kill may-beautiful story everyone loves it
let's kill doc ock in order to bring in a sexy version(clone saga-no explanation needed)
make him a clone(clone saga)
he has a crazy clone as well(clone saga)
he's not a clone(clone saga)
bring back Norman, have him kill the clone(clone saga)
let's kill baby may in the womb(clone saga)
let's bring back aunt may(reboot)
let's reboot :rolleyes:

Conclusion:
In 1 storyline Joe managed to **** up everything.

[Leocomix]

Joe is keeping the shareholders happy. As long as that keeps happening he is in there like a tick on a dog.

He's also keeping readers happy. Well, not all obviously.

[Serik]

Fact is that the X-Men ought to return to being a single team, in a single book with 6-8 members. The cast is out of control if you ask me.

Amen. One of the reasons I don't regularly pick up X-Men is because that whole segment of the MU seems like a big mess. I really don't feel like diving in at this point.

[Mister Mets]

gimmicks used spidey before Joe

let's kill Gwen
let's kill Norman
put him in a black suit that increases his strength and give him organic webs
let's kill Kravan
let's kill tombstone
let's kill harry
Let's kill dewolf
let's marry him off to MJ
let's kill may
let's kill doc ock in order to bring in a sexy version
make him a clone
he has a crazy clone as well
he's not a clone
bring back Norman, have him kill the clone
let's kill baby may in the womb
let's bring back aunt may
let's reboot :rolleyes:

You forgot...
Let's reveal Norman Osborn is the father of Peter's classmate
Let's introduce Mary Jane Watson is the final page of an issue.
Let's have Peter Parker quit being Spider-Man
Let's have Spider-Man grow six arms.
Let's start a new monthly about Spider-Man teaming up with the Human Torch.
Let's make that new monthly be about Spider-Man's team-ups with other Marvel heroes.

etc.

So I sincerely agree with your point that "gimmicks" on the Spider-Man franchise predated Quesada.

[Parch]

Amen. One of the reasons I don't regularly pick up X-Men is because that whole segment of the MU seems like a big mess. I really don't feel like diving in at this point.A bigger mess than Spiderman is right now?

Different problems.
They keep adding more X characters and have continuously changed teams. This has created the big mess. Or this could be considered an advantage because it provides the opportunity to mix and match and easily change the X-books to keep things fresh.

That's where dealing with a single character like Spiderman is a different problem. How do they change things up and keep the titles fresh when it's just one guy? Spidey doing the same thing over and over for decades gets a little stale.

Maybe they've dropped the ball, or maybe not. Change constantly gets criticized, but Marvel sales don't seem to be hurting. When sales of a group or character fall to the point of possible cancellation, then the changes can be considered a problem. I don't see that ever happening with the X-gang or Spiderman.

[drwho]

What I dont get is why the Spider-Man supporting cast is so important while with X-Men ones Joe allows having them slaughtered left and right.

[Dr. K]

He's the best EIC Marvel had since... well, I think he's better than Shooter. The guys before Shooter didn't stay long so I guess since Stan Lee.
An EIC has to know better than the fans and that's what he has the guts to have. I guess many would cave in to the sometimes childish views expressed on the internet. He saved Marvel from the brink. Respect. My hat is off to him.

I think Avi Arad, Jemas, and Harras (not to mention Hollywood) had just as much to do with saving Marvel from the brink, if not more.

Marvel's sales are ok right now. They've undeniably got the biggest slice of the pie. No one's arguing that. Whether that should be how we judge his success as EIC is another question entirely.

Shooter led Marvel to unprecedented sales and success. Then, for years, he couldn't get anyone to give him a job in comics or to even speak well of him, for altogether different reasons. How history will treat Joe Q, when things are said and done, has nothing to do with the short-term sales figures.

Yeah, he's not going to be fired in the immediate future. But we all knew that anyways.

[Kevinroc]

It's still too early to talk. Give it about 3 months & we'll see...


People have been saying this FOR YEARS. It's really time to give up on saying that. It wasn't true with Avengers Disassembled/ New Avengers. It wasn't true with Civil War/ The Initiative.

[DDM]

People have been saying this FOR YEARS. It's really time to give up on saying that. It wasn't true with Avengers Disassembled/ New Avengers. It wasn't true with Civil War/ The Initiative.

It wasn't true for Youngblood either when the book came out; however, the damage was done & I see the same for Joe Quesada as EiC. Sales does not equal quality.

[Flash's Lightning]

Top Reasons Joe Hasn't Been Fired

- He'll be fired next month, but it'll be revealed that it was actually a Skrull that had been Quesada all this time that was fired. Investigations soon reveal other Marvel Skrull infiltrations such as Jemas, Waid, and Millar.

- His boss is an artist, and though Joe was due to be fired in December, delays have pushed the firing back until March. Though if asked why firings are so much slower compared to the old days, they'll swear that people were fired at the same speed, but that interns were stored away in broom closets in case they were needed for emergency firings.

- Joe has incriminating photo's of all the heads of Marvel from Bendis's birthday party. 'nuff said.

- There's an agreement between Joe and the world. He doesn't make any more Christmas songs, and he can stay EIC.

- Not only is Joe not going to be fired, there's actually going to be an Ultimate Joe coming on as partner. The Ultimate Joe will smoke, wear sunglasses even indoors, and be twenty years younger.

[Trey]

Trust me, Marvel isn't successful because of JQ.
That's like saying the Bulls won 6 titles because of Jerry Krause (the General manager)

Marvels success is due to the heroes, the artists, and the resurgence of people who had left in the 90's and are now back with money to spend.

[stingerman]

I'd be curious to find out if the rise in the number of comic books sold is due to:

a) old readers returning
b) new readers
c) both

[StoneGold]

I disagree

Gimmicks allowed under Joe's watch

1. Gwen having sex with Norman :rolleyes:
2. Agreeing for organic webshooters to be brought in
3. Giving Peter new supernatural powers WTF
4. Giving Peter a New Iron suit
5. Using Peter to unmask
6. Erasing marriage
.

Thank you for proving, without a shadow of a doubt, that your definition of gimmick is plot elements I don't like.


Shiny covers are gimmicks. Coupons you can cut out to redeem stuff are gimmicks.

[gorthon616]

I disagree

Gimmicks allowed under Joe's watch

1. Gwen having sex with Norman :rolleyes:
2. Agreeing for organic webshooters to be brought in
3. Giving Peter new supernatural powers WTF
4. Giving Peter a New Iron suit
5. Using Peter to unmask
6. Erasing marriage

To me its just one mess up after another. Joe helped make the character urecognizable to an extent. To me it just shows he had no real vision for the character and was throwing and allowing gimmick after gimmick to be done with Peter. Its Joe's fault.

Yes, he messed up Spider-Man.

But everything else (IMO) has been great. Iron Man (when not in "I'M THE EVILEST HERO AROUND" Civil-War mode) is in a really interesting place and is in an excellent book. Cap (partially due to his dead status) is getting a sense of honor and prestige that he rarely got before. The X-Men are coming into their own again (though Decimation/House of M were atrocious). Annihilation/Cosmic stuff is getting a solid push. Hulk has caught on very strong. Avengers... well I'm not a big fan on the current Avengers set up (or Disassembled for that matter), so I'll call that a minor muck-up.

Hey, while Spider-Man proper hasn't been my cup of tea (and OMD is making me want to swear off even thinking of caring about it), I've come to enjoy Spider-Girl, Spider-Man Love Mary Jane, and Marvel Adventures Spider-Man.

So while I definitely think some bad things happened under his run, I think there have been more good than bad things.

[matthewaos]

Overall I like what is happening with marvel but I agree, keep JQ away from Spidey!

[Ryan Day]

Fact is that the X-Men ought to return to being a single team, in a single book with 6-8 members. The cast is out of control if you ask me.

How is that a "fact"? It certainly doesn't make any sense financially. Even before Messiah Complex, X-Men & Uncanny were selling around 80,000 an issue, New X-Men and X-Factor were around 50,000. Astonishing sells over 100,000.

Unless you think that the one, single book can somehow sell over 300,000 copies a month - which would probably require it be written by Stephen King and feature art by Jim Lee and Todd McFarlane - it seems Marvel is pretty much on the right track here.

[JCurwen]

It wasn't true for Youngblood either when the book came out; however, the damage was done & I see the same for Joe Quesada as EiC. Sales does not equal quality.
Actually, it does. Many, many people are buying these books, and I would assume most are enjoying what they buy since they keep buying them. To them, these books are of good quality.

[Berkey]

Fact is that the X-Men ought to return to being a single team, in a single book with 6-8 members. The cast is out of control if you ask me.

I agree or at least keep it to 2-3 titles, but if they did that it would be less mula comming in overall.

[Peeps]

rule #1 in life


you are not going to please everyone


for every person out there complaining about what JQ does to "Character/Title X" there are 10 who enjoy it

in this day and age of rumors spreading and spoilers being leaked before the comic comes out, people are already jaded by what happens before they even give it a chance

i used to really look forward to the day my xfactor and uncanny xmen would come via the US Mail and be completely enthralled by looking at the cover of arcangel leading the fight against xfactor or wolverines fighting sabertooth and then reading the story and then deciding if the story was good or not

[Sean Whitmore]

It's still too early to talk. Give it about 3 months & we'll see...

We just saw what his results were over the past year, but we should wait 3 more months before drawing any conclusions from it.

You should try joining the rest of us on this planet.

It's fun here. We have ice cream and puppy dogs.


SEAN

[Jake V]

We just saw what his results were over the past year, but we should wait 3 more months before drawing any conclusions from it.

You should try joining the rest of us on this planet.

It's fun here. We have ice cream and puppy dogs.


SEAN

Forget the past year, he's been a successful EIC for 6-7 years.

He'll only be judged on the next 3 months?

And people say DDM is humorless.

[Spiffy]

He may piss off a lot a of people, but he's doing his job well. Its not exactly rocket science.
He's doing PART of his job well. The "bottom line" part. Versus the "artistic" part (and I'm not referring to how well he does or doesn't draw by that).

True, the part he's doing well is much more likely to keep him his job. The artistic part is more of a "legacy" thing only to be counted after he's (someday) gone.

[Michael P]

Forget the past year, he's been a successful EIC for 6-7 years.

He'll only be judged on the next 3 months?

And people say DDM is humorless.

Actually, in business it's not uncommon for a previously successful executive to lose a lot of face very quickly on the failure of a single initiative. CEOs are fickle beasts.

That being said, he seems to have a good working relationship with Publisher Dan Buckley, so I would guess that nothing short of an unmitigated disaster or a radical change in the internal power structure of Marvel would affect his position.

[Will.S]

I think overall Joe Q has done more good for Marvel than bad. I mean, sure Spider-Man is an ungodly wreak right now, and the Scarlet Witch needs to be saved from the hole he help dig for her, but other than that (and a few issues here or there), he's done a good job. Just, you know, not with Spider-Man.
Agreed.

Anyway I think Joe's been keeping everyone happy at Marvel sales wise, he's been EIC for quite a consecutive amount of years and I could definitely see him going on for 3 or 4 more years but probably a little sooner before he says he's done all he set out to do.

[MNM]

Sales does not equal quality.

For a one off item, maybe. When something is selling well consistently, it is because it holds enough quality for the people buying it to want to keep buying it.

People only ever drag out this quote when what is selling is something they dont personally like.

[marveljrjr]

He may piss off a lot a of people, but he's doing his job well. Its not exactly rocket science.

Yes, Joe Q IS doing his job well....and it IS rocket science. To you and me, that is. Not only do you have to have an artistic eye but a good business sense as well. If I were to hire someone for the EIC job I'd require a degree in art AND business. Wait, make that a U.N. ambassador with those two degrees.
So I think your analogy is off base.
To most people, Editor In Chief, IS rocket science. Back handed compliments and all.

JRjr

[Wild Card13]

I think that on the artistic front that Joe Q has been doing a fabulous job. He's made me care about Hulk and the Avengers, two segments of the Marvel Universe I'd never had any particular interest in until now. Say what you will about some of the story decisions that may have been made, but overall I think Joe's done a fine job of matching writers and artists with each other, and matching that team with a book whose content is well-suited to their style. Just look at the stable Brubaker's running right now, given his past repertoire. Look at all the things Bendis has brewing. Look at how Pak has basically become synonymous with the Hulk. Joe was the mastermind behind a lot of that.

Have there been rough moments? Sure. But I can't think of an EiC who hasn't had a few rough patches in their tenure. Lee himself was far from a flawless EiC. But like a lot of very enlightened people have pointed out in this thread all ready, it's impossible to please everybody, especially in a medium with fans as fickle as comic book fans. I pound my head on my desk every time I read a post with someone complaining about how we don't have "the real Avengers" probably about as often as someone smacks their forehead every time they read one of my long posts praising Joe Q. I think One More Day is the only move on his part that could really be called a misstep so far, and even then Brand New Day is proving to be a great success for Marvel.

So, uh, yeah.

[Abomination]

JOE Q SHOULD BE FIRED FOR MESSING THE ULTIMATE LINE. WHEN HE TOOK OVER YOU COULD PUT OUT ANYTHING WITH "ULTIMATE" ON IT AND IT WOULD TOP THE CHARTS. THIS IS TOTAL GARBAGE AND I DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY.....WHAT! what is that you say. thats the way it is for the regular Marvel universe now. oh, ok,.............Never Mind.

[Ullar]

Joe is a great EiC but he should never be allowed near Spidey again.

[Kevinroc]

Actually, in business it's not uncommon for a previously successful executive to lose a lot of face very quickly on the failure of a single initiative. CEOs are fickle beasts.

That being said, he seems to have a good working relationship with Publisher Dan Buckley, so I would guess that nothing short of an unmitigated disaster or a radical change in the internal power structure of Marvel would affect his position.

While very true, we have been hearing people saying this kind of thing about Quesada since pretty much day 1.

[Rylon]

I've come to realize that the comic book community is the most pessimistic group of people in existence. They decide something is ruined before they even have it in their hands.You should try roleplaying games.

[Titan76]

Anyone else see that Watchmen was #4 on the TPB/GN list? 20 years later and still going strong.

This chart doesn't show anything new. Marvel has dominated DC and everyone else for over 30 years now. The only question is how bad did they kick everyone else's ass this year.

As for Joe Q. I like the job he did from 98-04 but after this not to much. In fact I have drop pretty much all my Marvel books expect the Planet/World War Hulk stories which are interesting but I am only picking them up in TPB. Its too bad to because 4 years ago I was getting close to 15 Marvel books a month and no TPB, not anymore.

[Rahul]

Yes, Joe Q IS doing his job well....and it IS rocket science. To you and me, that is. Not only do you have to have an artistic eye but a good business sense as well. If I were to hire someone for the EIC job I'd require a degree in art AND business. Wait, make that a U.N. ambassador with those two degrees.
So I think your analogy is off base.
To most people, Editor In Chief, IS rocket science. Back handed compliments and all.

JRjr
Whoa talk about an unexpected reply....yeah, I guess it is indeed a very tough thing to to do...can't wait for your return to Spidey!

[Frank]

There's no in-between when it comes Joe Quesada. Because he take such extreme decisions as far as characters and the MU as a whole. I think it's 50/50 as far as how in one hand he damages characters and how on the other hand he keep reinvigorate them. He's bold and has got big balls, that's for sure. But he has too much of a kamikaze style.

The ideal EIC must be in there between Joe Quesada and Mark Gruenwald.

[marveljrjr]

Whoa talk about an unexpected reply....yeah, I guess it is indeed a very tough thing to to do...can't wait for your return to Spidey!

I think the first issue doesn't appear until the summer.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be EIC, unless I could wear a red cape or swing from a thread!
JRjr

[Micro]

gimmicks used spidey before Joe

let's kill Gwen
let's kill Norman
put him in a black suit that increases his strength and give him organic webs
let's kill Kravan
let's kill tombstone
let's kill harry
Let's kill dewolf
let's marry him off to MJ
let's kill may
let's kill doc ock in order to bring in a sexy version
make him a clone
he has a crazy clone as well
he's not a clone
bring back Norman, have him kill the clone
let's kill baby may in the womb
let's bring back aunt may
let's reboot :rolleyes:

Fair enough, but as someone else stated that was over 30 years of Spiderman vs:

Let's have Gwen have sex with Norman
let's have them have fast aged goblin-blood chidren
let's have Spiderman have organic webshoots...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!
let's have the Venom Symbiote join with Scorpion
let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sun
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic League
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's have Spiderman become Tony Stark's lapdog
let's have like 12 varient covers for one storyline
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just have him.
let's have Aunt May and MJ travel back in time wearing IronMan costumes
let's have Marvel have it's own Superman, his name can even start with an "S," and we can pretend he was always around, just no one remebers.
let's have Magneto kill Jean Grey then have Wolverine kill Magneto then bring him back one issue later and say it wasn't him.
let's have Wolverine stop smoking and remeber all of this past all at once, instead of discovering it over time.
let's put Spiderman back in the black costume, but not the Symbiote but some random black costume...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's have Tony Stark clone Thor with a hair he's kept all this time just in case.
let's have Aunt May on the verge of death...agian
let's have Spiderman unmask and then undo it a year later, hey it's magic we don't have to explain it.
let's have Spiderman make a deal with the Devil.
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.
let's kill Captian America..agian
let's have a female wolverine
let's have No More Mutants!
let's make Iron Man a villian
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerk
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern
let's make Hulk red..why not?
let's have Chuck Austen write X-Men followed by Peter Milligan
let's kill off Jean Grey and have Scott hook up with Emma Frost
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's turn Beast into an ugly cat-like creature.
let's kill Psylocke, and then bring her back
let's give Bishop a first name, and make Bishop his last name
let's kill Colossus, and then bring him back.
let's introduce a new third Summers brother, then do nothing interesting with him
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.
let's have the X-Men dress in leather...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!!
let's have Ghost Rider become an angel.
let's have Nightcrawler's father be a demon.
let's kill Sabertooth.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.

I'm sure there's many many more, but I'll take your list over mine.

[Peeps]

atleast joe q didnt bring back the spidermobile

[DeadXMan]

Fair enough, but as someone else stated that was over 30 years of Spiderman vs:

Let's have Gwen have sex with Norman
let's have them have fast aged goblin-blood chidren
let's have Spiderman have organic webshoots...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!Stan thought of using Organic back in the day but desided aginst it
let's have the Venom Symbiont join with Scorpionyour not reading thunderbolts are you?
let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sunhe never throw him into the sun he's still in orbit
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic Leagueand they are selling better for it
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's have Spiderman become Tony Stark's lapdog
let's have like 12 variant covers for one storylineyou mean reprints variants of vary popular books under Joe's tenure
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just have him.
let's have Aunt May and MJ travel back in time wearing IronMan costumesok I missed that one
let's have Marvel have it's own Superman, his name can even start with an "S," and we can pretend he was always around, just no one remebers.
let's have Magneto kill Jean Grey then have Wolverine kill Magneto then bring him back one issue later and say it wasn't him.it omega mutant magic, just try to explain it any other way make your eyes bleed
let's have Wolverine stop smoking and remeber all of this past all at once, instead of discovering it over time.
let's put Spiderman back in the black costume, but not the Symbiont but some random black costume...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!the movie was a symbiont
let's have Tony Stark clone Thor with a hair he's kept all this time just in case.you never heard of being papered
let's have Aunt May on the verge of death...agian,any times be for Joe
let's have Spiderman unmask and then undo it a year later, hey it's magic we don't have to explain it.that's why it magic
let's have Spiderman make a deal with the Devil.read ghost rider
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.all but puck sucked
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.she remembers and jackpot is red haring
let's kill Captian America..agianwhen have they killed him before?
let's have a female wolverinesexy, deadly X-23, the best clone ever
let's have No More Mutants!yet we just had a birth
let's make Iron Man a villainwho's now the most inter sting character in MU
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerkwas there a time when he wasn't cause he was willing to let kitty die
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern.....I got nothing
let's make Hulk red..why not?it's been issue
let's have Chuck Austen write X-Men followed by Peter Milliganhow is this a gimmick at the time they were big names
let's kill off Jean Grey and have Scott hook up with Emma Frostbetter then anther clone of his dead wife
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!Mags has had dependency issues before in comics, but what movie are you talking about?
let's turn Beast into an ugly cat-like creature.
let's kill Psylocke, and then bring her back
let's give Bishop a first name, and make Bishop his last name
let's kill Colossus, and then bring him back.
let's introduce a new third Summers brother, then do nothing interesting with himtaking over the Shi'ir empire isn't interesting
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.bucks return is soooo much better then Jason's
let's have the X-Men dress in leather...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!!
let's have Ghost Rider become an angel.
let's have Nightcrawler's father be a demon.mystique littlerly @#%#ed the devil
let's kill Sabertooth.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.MCX wasn't

I'm sure there's many many more, but I'll take your list over mine.


OK here some more

Let's have a nerd get bitten by a radioactive spider that gives him powers
and have him fight animal based villains
let's have a guy with limp become a Norse god
let's have a man wear a modern day suit of armor
let's four people bet bombarded with cosmic energy and become superheroes
let's have five teenagers born with powers
let's have a guy survive an atomic bomb and transform into an unstoppable monster


if you haven't guess by now
the "he uses gimmicks to sell books" is the most idiotic statement
one can think of in comics
since everything is a @$^ing gimmick:mad:

and what even sadder you fail to realize it

[StoneGold]

Fair enough, but as someone else stated that was over 30 years of Spiderman vs:

Let's have Gwen have sex with Norman
let's have them have fast aged goblin-blood chidren
let's have Spiderman have organic webshoots...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!
let's have the Venom Symbiote join with Scorpion
let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sun
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic League
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's have Spiderman become Tony Stark's lapdog
let's have like 12 varient covers for one storyline
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just have him.
let's have Aunt May and MJ travel back in time wearing IronMan costumes
let's have Marvel have it's own Superman, his name can even start with an "S," and we can pretend he was always around, just no one remebers.
let's have Magneto kill Jean Grey then have Wolverine kill Magneto then bring him back one issue later and say it wasn't him.
let's have Wolverine stop smoking and remeber all of this past all at once, instead of discovering it over time.
let's put Spiderman back in the black costume, but not the Symbiote but some random black costume...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's have Tony Stark clone Thor with a hair he's kept all this time just in case.
let's have Aunt May on the verge of death...agian
let's have Spiderman unmask and then undo it a year later, hey it's magic we don't have to explain it.
let's have Spiderman make a deal with the Devil.
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.
let's kill Captian America..agian
let's have a female wolverine
let's have No More Mutants!
let's make Iron Man a villian
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerk
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern
let's make Hulk red..why not?
let's have Chuck Austen write X-Men followed by Peter Milligan
let's kill off Jean Grey and have Scott hook up with Emma Frost
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's turn Beast into an ugly cat-like creature.
let's kill Psylocke, and then bring her back
let's give Bishop a first name, and make Bishop his last name
let's kill Colossus, and then bring him back.
let's introduce a new third Summers brother, then do nothing interesting with him
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.
let's have the X-Men dress in leather...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!!
let's have Ghost Rider become an angel.
let's have Nightcrawler's father be a demon.
let's kill Sabertooth.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.

I'm sure there's many many more, but I'll take your list over mine.

And that's in a whole mess of different books, some of which are wholly inaccurate. In that some of those aren't gimmicks in the slightest, and some of them never happened. Your anger at stuff you don't like has completely clouded your judgment.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Joe Quesada makes one hell of a bad guy. He should do the Vince McMahon powerwalk in a convention and razz fans. "I'm gonna bring Jean Grey back and have her sleep with Wolverine...what do ya think about that ?!"

[DeadXMan]

Joe Quesada makes one hell of a bad guy. He should do the Vince McMahon powerwalk in a convention and razz fans. "I'm gonna bring Jean Grey back and have her sleep with Wolverine...what do ya think about that ?!"

*from the peanut gallery*

It's been done! :p

see endsong

[Excelsior]

Joe Q is doing a great job! The only thing I would change is place a little more space between Marvel events. The Annihilation mini suffered because of Civil War. Altho,in my opinion Ann/Nova crossover was the superior one. Some breathing room, would do a world of good against mental fatigue. That way Artists can stay on schedule and writers and editors get to fine tune the series before it launches.

[Maestro]

I think Joe Q should get a promotion, or at least a pay raise.

[Siddon]

Joe Q has also given us the following

Academy X
Alias
Annhilation
Captain America
Captain Marvel
Civil War
Criminal
Exiles
The End series
Irreademable Ant Man
Iron Fist
Next Wave
New X-men
Madrox
Marvel Masterworks
Marvel Adventures Line
Marvel Zombies
Marvel Team-Up
Mary Jane
Mystique
Powers
Planet Hulk
Punisher MAX
Runaways
She-Hulk
Spidergirl
Thing
Thunderbolts
Ultimates vol 1
Ultimates vol 2
Ultimate Spider-man
X-factor
X-statix
Wisdom

I'd say each of those titles are B+ to A work, and thats not going into the franchise work by certain writers.

[engen500]

Joe Q has also given us the following

Academy X
Alias
Annhilation
Captain America
Captain Marvel
Civil War
Criminal
Exiles
The End series
Irreademable Ant Man
Iron Fist
Next Wave
New X-men
Madrox
Marvel Masterworks
Marvel Adventures Line
Marvel Zombies
Marvel Team-Up
Mary Jane
Mystique
Powers
Planet Hulk
Punisher MAX
Runaways
She-Hulk
Spidergirl
Thing
Thunderbolts
Ultimates vol 1
Ultimates vol 2
Ultimate Spider-man
X-factor
X-statix
Wisdom

I'd say each of those titles are B+ to A work, and thats not going into the franchise work by certain writers.

damn....Quesada ain't my favorite, but you can't deny his effort and he's making Million$$....I'd rather have a dude like Quesada who at least takes chances then an inept Editor with a martyr complex....

[GRANT!]

Yes, he messed up Spider-Man.

The Spider-man books were messed up for years long before he came around. There were a few bright spots but overall I don't look fondly back on the last 15 years of Spider-man comics.

[Micro]

The Spider-man books were messed up for years long before he came around. There were a few bright spots but overall I don't look fondly back on the last 15 years of Spider-man comics.

As much as I've disliked a lot of what Quesada has done, I have to agree with you here. Spiderman was actually getting better under Quesada, till they introduced Totems and the other Events, which were horrible.

[matthewaos]

The Spider-man books were messed up for years long before he came around. There were a few bright spots but overall I don't look fondly back on the last 15 years of Spider-man comics.

Yes, to be honest, after the clone mess, and the return of the goblin everything was ok, except that there was a baby still missing, then they brought back Aunt May, then the whole final chapter and then the reboot. Then the Byrne Chapter One, then Mackie kept writing, until JMS came on board. Jenkin's PPSM and Spectacular were really good books, as it was Millar's MKSM (which was the best Spidey event in years, even if it wasn't as good as, say the child within and the death of Harry, but that is saying something about the quality of the book those last years...), and then Sacasa's and David's runs were good. JMS starting to be really boring after #500, and then we had organic webs, the other, Stacy twins, unmasking, Back in Black, OMD...

[GRANT!]

Yes, to be honest, after the clone mess, and the return of the goblin everything was ok, except that there was a baby still missing, then they brought back Aunt May, then the whole final chapter and then the reboot. Then the Byrne Chapter One, then Mackie kept writing, until JMS came on board. Jenkin's PPSM and Spectacular were really good books, as it was Millar's MKSM (which was the best Spidey event in years, even if it wasn't as good as, say the child within and the death of Harry, but that is saying something about the quality of the book those last years...), and then Sacasa's and David's runs were good. JMS starting to be really boring after #500, and then we had organic webs, the other, Stacy twins, unmasking, Back in Black, OMD...

Millar's Spider-man run was dumb fun but I don't wasn't all that great story wise. It was just a series of cool moments that didn't add up to much.

But it did have some cool moments (Electro being a badass, the Doc Ock vs. Goblin fight, The Sinister 12, Spidey and Scorpions plain clothes confrontation).

Great art though.

[Berkey]

Joe Q has also given us the following

Academy X
Alias
Annhilation
Captain America
Captain Marvel
Civil War
Criminal
Exiles
The End series
Irreademable Ant Man
Iron Fist
Next Wave
New X-men
Madrox
Marvel Masterworks
Marvel Adventures Line
Marvel Zombies
Marvel Team-Up
Mary Jane
Mystique
Powers
Planet Hulk
Punisher MAX
Runaways
She-Hulk
Spidergirl
Thing
Thunderbolts
Ultimates vol 1
Ultimates vol 2
Ultimate Spider-man
X-factor
X-statix
Wisdom

I'd say each of those titles are B+ to A work, and thats not going into the franchise work by certain writers.

Good point(s) Joe has had some great success and some that were not quite as good. It happens to all people with power you have ups and downs. It's just too bad that everyone is focusing on spiderman, yes I know it's been a problem for years now, but I gotta say personally you don't kick a guy when hes getting back to his feet and I think Spidey was on his way back to his feet and he just got kicked back down thats just how it is.

[Siddon]

The Spider-man issue to me is a tough one because I respect where fans are coming from with the character, and Amazing Spider-man hasn't really cliqued for me. On the other hand there have also been a whole lot of really good Spider-man comics over the last ten years. I think Ultimate Spider-man is the greatest alternate universe ever written, it reminds me of the great 80's runs of Byrne, David, and Claremont. To a lesser extent so does Spider-girl, which is almost more Buffy the Vampire Slayer then the current Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

As for some of the other stuff, I don't think anyone is saying that Spider-man isn't an Avenger anymore. I think Spider-man has really worked on that team book, you read a book like Mighty Avengers and you realize how much of the Avengers is lost without a POV character like Peter. I also really enjoyed Spider-man: Reign, it was a very nice and very different alternate future book.

In conclusion I have a really big problem with people going after an EIC who has done excellent work in every other corner in the Marvel universe at one time or the other. And I am optomistic because a weekly Marvel book can and should work.

So yes I agree with you The Other blew, Y Tu Norman statutory not so great, The Devil wears aborted May Day less of a high moment, and I still don't know what a totem, gollum, Zebidiah, morlun, madam web, gibber jabber is all about. But I have faith..... that Marvel will continue to publish great trades so I can read them for free at Barnes and Noble. Can't we all just come together and agree that Marvel has an awesome trade/ reprint program.

[matthewaos]

Yeah, that's true, they made me obsessed with Hardcovers... But you forgot Moon Knight on your list.

[MattXG]

Why should he be fired?

Marvel's NEVER been better.

Not only is the 616 more interesting than ever...A whole other universe has been created under his watch that also does well....

Probably the best job ever.

[ZT4]

Why should he be fired?

Marvel's NEVER been better.

Not only is the 616 more interesting than ever...

It's also invalidated itself thanks to devil worship, bargain job there, hahahahaha.

But yeah, there's enough highs to consider Joe's tenure Marvel's most succesful in years.

[Bulky Brent]

Why should he be fired?

Marvel's NEVER been better.

Not only is the 616 more interesting than ever...A whole other universe has been created under his watch that also does well....

Probably the best job ever.
I have nothing against Joe Q Except for his recent decisions regarding Spider-Man aside from that he is doing an excellent job. Just wish we could see more of the MC2 Universe again maybe the upcoming American Dream mini will get people interested again and their will be more of and interest in MC2 again.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Furthermore, it's not just about book sales, but how is Joe keeping the brand identity for each book? Under his watch, all of Marvel has turned into one nebulous blob as each book seems to possess the same identity.Define that single identity all Marvel books have, please. The only nebulous blob I see here is your argument. Throw out some specifics, not vague accusations.

Sales does not equal quality.
But quality does equal sales. Eye of the beholder. If people like something, they buy more of it.

For a one off item, maybe. When something is selling well consistently, it is because it holds enough quality for the people buying it to want to keep buying it.

People only ever drag out this quote when what is selling is something they dont personally like.What MNM said.

Thank you for proving, without a shadow of a doubt, that your definition of gimmick is plot elements I don't like.

Shiny covers are gimmicks. Coupons you can cut out to redeem stuff are gimmicks.Thank you! The overdone misuse of the word 'gimmick' is maddening, and I'm glad you called someone out on this. Yes, there are plot elements that can and do gain more attention than others. And marketing would be foolish to ignore those. That doesn't make something a gimmick if its reason for being is in fact the story itself. Of course, when one doesn't like where the story goes, one can criticize it by claiming (without any real knowledge) that the plot elements were gimmicks.

Yes, Joe Q IS doing his job well....and it IS rocket science. To you and me, that is. Not only do you have to have an artistic eye but a good business sense as well. If I were to hire someone for the EIC job I'd require a degree in art AND business. Wait, make that a U.N. ambassador with those two degrees.
So I think your analogy is off base.
To most people, Editor In Chief, IS rocket science. Back handed compliments and all.

JRjrI would have to admit I don't envy JQ in having to answer for a lot of gutsy decisions that will invariably upset someone. That is a juggling act on a tightrope, indeed. Always good to see a legendary creator weigh in on our trivial little debates, too! Thanks for all you do, JRjr!

Fair enough, but as someone else stated that was over 30 years of Spiderman vs:

let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sun
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic League
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just gave him.
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.
let's kill Captian America..agian
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerk
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern
let's make Hulk red..why not?
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.


Let's cite examples not in Spider-Man.
Let's make stuff up.
Let's pretend stuff is JUST LIKE THE MOVIES when it isn't.
Let's act like killing off Alpha Flight was a big deal -- even off panel.
Let's make sure we confuse or mislead regarding multiple plot points (Morlun ate Spidey's eye)...
Let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.
"agian".

-- Why are threads closed where the starter clearly is rooting for a book to fail by pointing out low sales figures, yet a thread basically implying the EIC of Marvel has reason to lose his job allowed to go on? Why wasn't this thread titled "Why Joe Quesada was hired in the first place.". or "Why Joe Q has earned his paycheck". Seems inconsistent to me.

[lead sharp]

I do agree that the Spider books are a complete balls up. And it looks like editorial fast tracking that's done it, ie lets just magic the marriage and unmasking away instead of coming up with somthing creative and ingenius.

Jo Q has done a lot for Marvel. What's been good has been very good, the X books and the Avengers all seem to have their own identity and many of the indervidual titles, Iron Man, Daredevil and so on seem to as well (at least on the face of it) but I do have to wonder, why all the crossover insanity? (from both the big two).

No one really likes them, no one really wants them. Too many of them and you loose yourself in a miaisma of wtf.

Jo is VERY guilty of piling them on.

[matthewaos]

JQ also let the books be delayed to a humorous level. I can see that happening when you hire someone like Kevin Smith though, cause he is doing much stuff in the same time, and I understand it as a move, cause names like those bring more people to read your comics.

[Shade 20x6]

Quesada's horrible. The current Marvel universe is unrecognizable. I'm not against change if the change is good, but EVERYTHING in the 616 is a total wreck now, and the reputations of tons of iconic characters have been dragged through the mud (some to a potentially unfixable extent). All of this may offer short-term sales increases due to piqued interest, but since Quesada has already told fans with OMD/BND that, in the end, none of these characters will ever truly progress and EVERYTHING "major" is done merely for shock value, and then will be subsequently retconned, there's absolutely no reason to buy into any of his hype. The fact that he's told us bold-faced lies ("we won't do a universal mind-wipe to retcon the unmasking" :rolleyes:) doesn't help his credibility at all, either.

In fact, I was just revising my Marvel pull-list and realized that I'm only picking up three titles now: Ultimate Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Girl, and Marvel Zombies 2...all of which take place outside of the 616 continuity.

Quesada is a poor EIC because he has a Napolean Complex. It doesn't help that he essentially flips off a lot of his long-time readers in an effort to bring in new readers. He can't see the forest for the trees, and that will bite Marvel in the ass big-time in the long run.

[StoneGold]

It's also invalidated itself thanks to devil worship, bargain job there, hahahahaha.


You must have hated Marvel in the 70s then, after the monster boom, where there were half a dozen characters whose very existence was due to making deals with the devil.

[StoneGold]

Quesada is a poor EIC because he has a Napolean Complex.

You're just randomly using words, aren't you? Joe's not a particularly tiny dude.

[Micro]

Let's cite examples not in Spider-Man.
Let's make stuff up.
Let's pretend stuff is JUST LIKE THE MOVIES when it isn't.
Let's act like killing off Alpha Flight was a big deal -- even off panel.
Let's make sure we confuse or mislead regarding multiple plot points (Morlun ate Spidey's eye)...
Let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.
"agian"

Silly things like facts and continuity never seemed to matter to Quesada, why should they get in the way of a good ol' fashioned rant;)

[Valen]

Maybe it is because I started reading comics in the early 1990s, but I think Marvel under the stewardship of JoeQ has been on the most exciting and interesting times in comics. I don't mean to discount the stuff from the 1970s, but that simply wasn't my period of readership. I'm not all that pleased with the Spider-man situation either, but one big negative (in my opinion) does not disqualify the many positives I have witnessed.

[TonyJaymz03]

Joe started to lose me at House of M....

Civil War made me cut back on my Marvel intake...

and OMD made me sick....

And now with the cancellation of The Order, I think I read, maybe 2 Marvel books.

With that said, he has brought back some super heroes with solo books I never thought they would bring back (Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel) and he seems to give alot of up and coming writers chances, and theres no doubt that Marvel comics is more relevant, mainstream-wise, than a decade ago

[BYC]

He's done a solid job overall and shouldn't be fired, even if OMD/BND is an incredibly bad decision. That being said, I wonder if perhaps his decisions are the start of a downward trend. It seems like House of M was the start of questionable endings of big events. It seems like House of M, then CW, and WWH have all ended with questionable decisions, and perhaps that'll lead to the downturn.

But until that happens, he should still stick around. But god, I wish Spider-Man can be fixed.

[DeadXMan]

the endings lead toward what marvels is today
From HoM we got SoM, x-factor and MCX
CW has made both Cap and Iron man interesting and has brought back the old debates of who can kick who's ass that has long been missing since the late 70's
WWH we're getting a damage control mini, an interesting Red hulk so far and Herc has a monthly finally

[Leocomix]

The EIC is the one who makes the calls. He made a lot of good one, a few not so good. No manager anywhre canbat 100%. Those who don't like what he's doing can read thousands of back issues done when others were EIC (available in trade thanks to him). I'm buying a lot of old stuff. I'm even considering checking things like Sgt Fury, Rawhide Kid... Marvel is not just about what's currently happening to such character but also what kind of collections there are (Essential, Masterworks, Premiere, Omnibus, Digest size), what line there are (Ultimate, Marvel Adventures, Max). How come nobody mentions this important part of his job?

[Evan Lanctot]

I will give JQ massive props in making the best of Marvel's history available in trade paperbacks. These are a godsend. How else can one obtain Spider-Man #1-150+(albeit in black and white)for next to nothing?

He does deserve credit for this.

Evan

[ZT4]

You must have hated Marvel in the 70s then, after the monster boom, where there were half a dozen characters whose very existence was due to making deals with the devil.

Precisly why I only read the characters that didnt do a whole lot of that, though Ghost Rider came to great success during that period.

And even I remember Inferno in the 1980s mate:p

[MrPrimeMinister]

Joe started to lose me at House of M....

Civil War made me cut back on my Marvel intake...

and OMD made me sick....

And now with the cancellation of The Order, I think I read, maybe 2 Marvel books.

Thank you for recognizing the travesty that is the cancellation of the Order... Q just doesn't get the difference between sales numbers and quality. Fresh and new series like the Order or Ant-Man should be given time to grow a following; instead they are canceled while crap like Ms. Marvel is allowed to continue just because it's an older title.

[StoneGold]

Thank you for recognizing the travesty that is the cancellation of the Order... Q just doesn't get the difference between sales numbers and quality. Fresh and new series like the Order or Ant-Man should be given time to grow a following; instead they are canceled while crap like Ms. Marvel is allowed to continue just because it's an older title.

Really, what are the odds that Joe is behind the cancellation, as opposed to accounting?

[Pete26]

He's the best EIC Marvel had since... well, I think he's better than Shooter. The guys before Shooter didn't stay long so I guess since Stan Lee.
An EIC has to know better than the fans and that's what he has the guts to have. I guess many would cave in to the sometimes childish views expressed on the internet. He saved Marvel from the brink. Respect. My hat is off to him.

Sorry, you sounded so much like JQ blowin' his own smoke:evilsmile :evilsmile

[StoneGold]

Sorry, you sounded so much like JQ blowin' his own smoke:evilsmile :evilsmile

So wait, out of all the positive responses on here, you take the time to single out one guy, who has five times the amount of posts you do no less, and accuse him of being a plant?

[darksaint124]

O.K. So now that I have read the entire thread, the common theme with the Joe Q. bashers is the whole "if Joe can get his real Spidey, why can't I get my real Avengers" or some other nonsense that has to do with SM or the Avengers. Your seriously looking over the only actual reason his job would be in ant kind of jeopordy. Under Joe Q.'s leadership Marvel cannot keep a schedule. Everyone is quick to point out how much he sells. Okay, take Astonishing X-men. At around 100,000 copies per issue, that would be at about 2,400,000 copies sold over 4 years, but last time I checked Astonishing was supposed to be monthly, so in effect the delays have essentially cut sales in half(instead of 2.4 mil over 4 years, it should be more like 4.8,since there is another run on Astonishing waiting for the time Whedon finally finishes)The delays are his single greatest sin. And guys, don't feel bad about OMD, remember Quesada is not a writer, someone will come along down the road and retcon it out of existence. That is what generally happens to stories universally hated.

[pariah-1972]

It seems to me that the books that sell the best are the ones that are the most controversial for whatever reason
so i'm not sure if this is healthy for marvel comics but it does seem to be working for the most part.

[wolp]

single man, single man
dose what ever a single man can
catches honeys, just like flies.

Look out! here comes the single man!
wasn't he married?
Listen bub,
keep your trap shut,
or we'll spill your blood

Here comes the single Man

Wow I just noticed that..damn that is some ingenious stuff there.You took the original spider-man theme and changed the words to make it about single spider-man! Bravo. That was hilarious.

You may want to change the dose to does.

[Leocomix]

It seems to me that the books that sell the best are the ones that are the most controversial for whatever reason
so i'm not sure if this is healthy for marvel comics but it does seem to be working for the most part.

Clone Saga wasn't controversial with me. I just stopped reading Spider-Man. I was feeling more puzzlement than outrage. What I mean is that non-controversial books don't sell. hey just get cancelled quietly. We don't have that many records from the early Marvel but I was reading letters in the FF Omnibus and there was controversy even then over the type of stories told. Early Marvel was built on controversial ideas (a monster as a hero, a teenager as the main superhero feature)

[Frank]

Fair enough, but as someone else stated that was over 30 years of Spiderman vs:

Let's have Gwen have sex with Norman
let's have them have fast aged goblin-blood chidren
let's have Spiderman have organic webshoots...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!
let's have the Venom Symbiote join with Scorpion
let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sun
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic League
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's have Spiderman become Tony Stark's lapdog
let's have like 12 varient covers for one storyline
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just have him.
let's have Aunt May and MJ travel back in time wearing IronMan costumes
let's have Marvel have it's own Superman, his name can even start with an "S," and we can pretend he was always around, just no one remebers.
let's have Magneto kill Jean Grey then have Wolverine kill Magneto then bring him back one issue later and say it wasn't him.
let's have Wolverine stop smoking and remeber all of this past all at once, instead of discovering it over time.
let's put Spiderman back in the black costume, but not the Symbiote but some random black costume...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's have Tony Stark clone Thor with a hair he's kept all this time just in case.
let's have Aunt May on the verge of death...agian
let's have Spiderman unmask and then undo it a year later, hey it's magic we don't have to explain it.
let's have Spiderman make a deal with the Devil.
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.
let's kill Captian America..agian
let's have a female wolverine
let's have No More Mutants!
let's make Iron Man a villian
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerk
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern
let's make Hulk red..why not?
let's have Chuck Austen write X-Men followed by Peter Milligan
let's kill off Jean Grey and have Scott hook up with Emma Frost
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's turn Beast into an ugly cat-like creature.
let's kill Psylocke, and then bring her back
let's give Bishop a first name, and make Bishop his last name
let's kill Colossus, and then bring him back.
let's introduce a new third Summers brother, then do nothing interesting with him
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.
let's have the X-Men dress in leather...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!!
let's have Ghost Rider become an angel.
let's have Nightcrawler's father be a demon.
let's kill Sabertooth.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.

I'm sure there's many many more, but I'll take your list over mine.

And for all these points I will raises you a 100 more that he did that was good to great.

Because since you say all these things were his faults then you also have to add all the Marvel stories that have been done since he started his regime.

[rZi]

Let's have Gwen have sex with Norman
let's have them have fast aged goblin-blood chidren
let's have Spiderman have organic webshoots...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!
let's have the Venom Symbiote join with Scorpion
let's have a superman-wannabe throw Carnage into the sun
let's kill off all the old avengers and create Marvel Justic League
let's have Spiderman die only to come back with new powers he will never use.
let's have Spiderman become Tony Stark's lapdog
let's have like 12 varient covers for one storyline
let's put Spiderman in a weaker verison of Ironman's costume so he can't explore the new powers we just have him.
let's have Aunt May and MJ travel back in time wearing IronMan costumes
let's have Marvel have it's own Superman, his name can even start with an "S," and we can pretend he was always around, just no one remebers.
let's have Magneto kill Jean Grey then have Wolverine kill Magneto then bring him back one issue later and say it wasn't him.
let's have Wolverine stop smoking and remeber all of this past all at once, instead of discovering it over time.
let's put Spiderman back in the black costume, but not the Symbiote but some random black costume...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's have Tony Stark clone Thor with a hair he's kept all this time just in case.
let's have Aunt May on the verge of death...agian
let's have Spiderman unmask and then undo it a year later, hey it's magic we don't have to explain it.
let's have Spiderman make a deal with the Devil.
let's have Alpha Flight killed off panel.
let's bring Harry back.
let's have MJ not remeber being married to Spiderman and become a Superhero.
let's kill Captian America..agian
let's have a female wolverine
let's have No More Mutants!
let's make Iron Man a villian
let's have Spiderman eat someones eyeball.
let's make Mr. Fantastic a jerk
let's have Storm marry Black Pantern
let's make Hulk red..why not?
let's have Chuck Austen write X-Men followed by Peter Milligan
let's kill off Jean Grey and have Scott hook up with Emma Frost
let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!
let's turn Beast into an ugly cat-like creature.
let's kill Psylocke, and then bring her back
let's give Bishop a first name, and make Bishop his last name
let's kill Colossus, and then bring him back.
let's introduce a new third Summers brother, then do nothing interesting with him
let's copy DC, if they can bring Jason Todd back, why can't we bring back Bucky.
let's have the X-Men dress in leather...JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!!
let's have Ghost Rider become an angel.
let's have Nightcrawler's father be a demon.
let's kill Sabertooth.
let's delay books, over and over agian, heck, lets not even finish some.


I think he needs someone to email him this, and good job on noting the stupid movie tie-ins.

[pariah-1972]

let's turn Magneto into a drug addicted old man....JUST LIKE THE MOVIES!!I must have missed something cause i don't remember Magneto ever doing drugs in the movies.

[Michael P]

Really, what are the odds that Joe is behind the cancellation, as opposed to accounting?

Slim to nil. Generally, if a new series gets cancelled, it's because it's not moving enough units to be profitable, and there's no indication that trade sales will be sufficient to make up that gap.

Or, to be blunt, comics get cancelled when the numbers show that neither the retailers nor bookstores give a crap.

[StoneGold]

Slim to nil. Generally, if a new series gets cancelled, it's because it's not moving enough units to be profitable, and there's no indication that trade sales will be sufficient to make up that gap.

Or, to be blunt, comics get cancelled when the numbers show that neither the retailers nor bookstores give a crap.

And that's my point. Joe's failure was in the creation of the Order. Now, I say that as a huge Order fan. But apparently they put together a book that only appealed to a fairly niche audience. And that's where his fault lies: creating a book that wasn't successful enough. What he should have done was throw a bunch of mutants together and imply they'll kill a bunch of people. Because that'll sell.

[Michael P]

And that's my point. Joe's failure was in the creation of the Order. Now, I say that as a huge Order fan. But apparently they put together a book that only appealed to a fairly niche audience. And that's where his fault lies: creating a book that wasn't successful enough. What he should have done was throw a bunch of mutants together and imply they'll kill a bunch of people. Because that'll sell.

Picking a title without actually having the rights to that title, thus necessitating a change after the first issue had already been solicited, can't have helped either.

[StoneGold]

Picking a title without actually having the rights to that title, thus necessitating a change after the first issue had already been solicited, can't have helped either.

True. Although I'd suspect that was legal's fault.


In other words, you can blame Joe all you want for OMD, but you can't really blame him for the cancellation of a book no one read. I mean, you can, but it's in the creating a book that no one read. Which, if he hadn't had it created, you wouldn't be complaining about it getting canceled right now.

[StoneGold]

Just because I feel like stirring up poo...


How dare he, after saying he supports writers, break the strike by appearing on the Colbert Report!!!!

[DeadXMan]

somehow crossing a writers picket line doesn't sound as scary as say crossing a carpenter's or teamsters

[StoneGold]

somehow crossing a writers picket line doesn't sound as scary as say crossing a carpenter's or teamsters

What about when a number of your writers are members of the Guild?

[Expletive Deleted]

What about when a number of your writers are members of the Guild?Maybe the idea is that Marvel's deal with the WGA gives him some leeway.

Or not. I dunno.

[DeadXMan]

well when goes on to promote their work. I think they tend to forgive him

[khuxford]

well when goes on to promote their work. I think they tend to forgive him

Any writer that forgives someone for crossing a picket line for the selfish reasons of promoting their non-union work should be bounced from the union.

Collective bargaining doesn't really help if people decide to make up their own rules instead of sticking together as part of the collective.

And Marvel STUDIOS made a deal...not Marvel COMICS...with Joe appearing on a show that HAS NO DEAL. So...no...that Marvel deal doesn't accomplish anything regarding this appearance.

[Yaw]

Any writer that forgives someone for crossing a picket line for the selfish reasons of promoting their non-union work should be bounced from the union.

Collective bargaining doesn't really help if people decide to make up their own rules instead of sticking together as part of the collective.

And Marvel STUDIOS made a deal...not Marvel COMICS...with Joe appearing on a show that HAS NO DEAL. So...no...that Marvel deal doesn't accomplish anything regarding this appearance.

When did Marvel COMICS have anything to do with WGA? Yes some of its writers are members but their membership in the WGA has nothing to do with their work on COMICS. Comic book writers have no guild. For that matter every attempt to create one has failed.