DCU Comic Sexuality in 2007

[DavidAllred]

Was it just me, or did 2007 seem like a pretty responsible year for comic sexuality? For the record, comic book sexuality doesn't bother me so much in titles that I'd expect to be a focal point. But when the main heroes of the DCU are shacking up for one-nighters, I feel like hiding the books from my kids who are now beginning to show an interest in the DCU.

In 2006, it seemed like the DCU was painted over in sexual themes for the better part of the year. Heroes like Hal Jordan and Dick Grayson were each dipicted in nameless one-night stands in the opening panels of the OYL inagurations. Bart Allen was underage and hanging with a friend in a bar who was drinking it up and coaxing out a menage a trio. Outsiders contained a a few panels of group-prison-sex, and the opening panel of Superman following the film Superman Returns contained Arion laying in bed with two naked chicks... a lot of the stories were good, don't get me wrong, but a lot of it was also a distraction from otherwise good stories (for me). Sometimes, I felt like a dirty old man, having to hide some of comics under the bed so my kids wouldn't find them.

Fast forward to 2007, I don't recall having this issue. Certainly, there was a lot of violence, particularly in Sinestro Corps War, World War III, and some other mini's that caused me to hide my comic purchases from the kids, keeping them away from the mainstream titles. Some of the disembowling scenes, rooms full of dead prostitutes, and basic skull crushing stuff was a bit much, as even for me. But by and large the regular DC titles were quite a bit more even-tempered than in 2006. I came out of 2007 a much happier camper, and felt like there was a great deal of basic story plots and more panels of great art that I could in fact share with my seven-year old than in 2006. He loves the staple heroes of the DCU and it makes me happy to be able to share my passion with him.

Then again, maybe it was just me.

[Tom-El]

For me, it depends on who's doing the art.

Ed Benes really cheeked up the JLA Wedding Special... if Diana's ass was any less covered, she'd have been bottomless.

I think the themes and stories were less sexual, but the art was spot on.

Tom

[Gothos]

Don't forget that TEEN TITANS SPECIAL where the female Hawk makes a somewhat-veiled reference to getting, uh, cleaned up from a one-nighter.

[jhota]

i'm glad to see you hide the violent books, too.

sex & violence in entertainment doesn't bother me. but the folks who whine about sexual content but not violence drive me nuts. like sex is worse than violence? inappropriate, maybe, but definitely less destructive (imho).

that said, i'm bothered a bit by the blatant sexuality and violence in mainstream universe books - for exactly the reason that they aren't appropriate for kids. how are we going to grow the community if we can't share these books with kids?

i'd like to see the mainstream books toned down a bit more (you can tell a good story without sex and gore) - leave that for the "adult" lines like Vertigo and Marvel's MAX imprint...

to answer your question, yes - this year was better.

[Zel]

The only thing sweeping sexual content under the rug will do is further marginalize comics as the domain of the stereotypical dateless nerd.

There is nothing wrong with sexual content and young people are not harmed by seeing it.

By pretending everyone's asexual you'll wind up with everyone being like Wonder Woman, a sixty year old virgin that's unrelatable because she lacks basic human desires.

[Shellhead]

"It’s a sad commentary on American morals that the sex is the thing that people object to. I find that sad, but it is true. I can describe an axe entering a person’s skull and no one objects, but if I describe a penis entering a vagina, there’s an outcry."

--George R.R. Martin

http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Fantasy/george-martin.shtml

[Choppa]

Can we get some references here? Like what did Hawk actually say for instance?

[Scott Taylor]

The violence continued right apace at DC, unfortunately. Its one of the things that turned me off of JSA, a series that should have been a lot more "family friendly". I don't need to see Nazis actually gibbing people to know they are bad people, mmmk?

[HaroldAllnut]

Let us not forget the not-so-vaguely mentioned tryst that Renee Montoya had with a young woman while visiting Kahndaq... and her previous, messy relationship with the new Batwoman, who we really haven't seen since 52.

[Khan Zor-El]

As long as two men aren't shown kissing, I'm fine with everything else.

[DavidAllred]

The only thing sweeping sexual content under the rug will do is further marginalize comics as the domain of the stereotypical dateless nerd.

There is nothing wrong with sexual content and young people are not harmed by seeing it.

By pretending everyone's asexual you'll wind up with everyone being like Wonder Woman, a sixty year old virgin that's unrelatable because she lacks basic human desires.

There are plenty of comics to turn to for sexualized characters. Even the Outsiders bit didn't bother me as much since the title was geared more toward adults.

But I couldn't disagree more with the idea that you need sex to make something appealing. I mean I don't have to watch Indy and Marion make sexual remarks to each other, then see a post-coitus scene talking about how hot the sex was to appreciate Raiders of the Lost Ark.

A good writer can build sexual tension with barely making any sexual remarks at all. Think about Mulder and Scully on the X-Files. Their relationship was almost totally a-sexual, but the tension was always there. Reducing them down to a love-making scene would have killed at least part of the fun of the series, and the anticipation of seeing their feelings for each finally getting "un-bottled."

Futhermore, over-sexualized comics actually reinforce the dateless nerd idea you speak of, because most people look over and see some guy salivating over how well a set of teats are drawn and think, "Dang, that guy is desperate."

ETA: Do you even read WW? She's incredibly appealing for the very reason that she doesn't give it up to anyone.

[PretenderNX01]

Me likey. :D

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9255/1031gv4.jpg

[Khan Zor-El]

disgusting.

[Thnikkaman]

Your discomfort pleases me.

[Gozwald73]

The only thing sweeping sexual content under the rug will do is further marginalize comics as the domain of the stereotypical dateless nerd.

There is nothing wrong with sexual content and young people are not harmed by seeing it.

By pretending everyone's asexual you'll wind up with everyone being like Wonder Woman, a sixty year old virgin that's unrelatable because she lacks basic human desires.

Nominating for best post

[Will.S]

Me likey. :D

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9255/1031gv4.jpg
What comic was this from?

[ForEverAncien]

Formerly from a Manhunter issue.
What comic was this from?

[Laughing Mask]

and hawkgirl & red arrow bumped uglies before they even went out on a first date.

go red arrow!!!!

[HaroldAllnut]

As long as two men aren't shown kissing, I'm fine with everything else.

Then you'll probably want to avoid any and all titles featuring Obsidian... which is a shame, because he's one of my favorite characters.

[Violently Apathetic]

The only thing sweeping sexual content under the rug will do is further marginalize comics as the domain of the stereotypical dateless nerd.


I disagree. I think it's gratuitous sexuality that is more likely to make people think of 'dateless nerds' who are sexually repressed and need titillation from a comic book. Of course I'm thinking more the scantily clad females with impossible figures than sexuality as a plot point, but I don't think omitting sexuality will feed the stereotype of dateless wonders any more than an Adam Hughes Catwoman cover.

Also, yay to more man-kissing!

[Mon-el]

One issue of All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder had Batman and Black Canary had them frisking each other at the wharehouse, but I'm not sure on the release date if it was 2006 or 2007.

Then again, that particular comic should never find it's way into a 7 year old reading material.

[Aubergine~!]

One issue of All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder had Batman and Black Canary had them frisking each other at the wharehouse, but I'm not sure on the release date if it was 2006 or 2007.

Then again, that particular comic should never find it's way into a 7 year old reading material.

I think they shagged at a dock somewhere.

[Gothos]

I disagree. I think it's gratuitous sexuality that is more likely to make people think of 'dateless nerds' who are sexually repressed and need titillation from a comic book. Of course I'm thinking more the scantily clad females with impossible figures than sexuality as a plot point, but I don't think omitting sexuality will feed the stereotype of dateless wonders any more than an Adam Hughes Catwoman cover.

Also, yay to more man-kissing!

My guess is that, for people who want to regard all comics-fans as dateless nerds, either extreme will work. If you're reading comics that are relentlessly hypersexual, you're a dateless nerd who wants sex but can't get any. If you're reading comics that are extremely vanilla in their depiction of sex, then you're a dateless nerd whose needs for sex have become displaced by your passion for innocent superhero comics.

(This displacement b.s., BTW, is not my personal diagnosis, but has been promulgated by a lot of artcomics guys, notably Dan Clowes in the first section of PUSSEY!, where he shows an elderly comics-nerd getting his groove on while watching convention-goers in super-costumes.)

[Gothos]

Can we get some references here? Like what did Hawk actually say for instance?

Sorry, haven't got the issue handy. It seems her one-nighter was with the now-deceased Power Boy, though, which has gotten some writeups on the web. I bought the SPECIAL for the art and haven't paid attention to any follow-ups since, so I don't even know if this Hawk's still alive.

[Zel]

Was reading the Persepolis review over at newsarama (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=144285) and this bit describing Iran made me think of this thread.


It’s a world where police will walk up to her and tell her not to run because her backside is turning too many men on. It’s a world where in her art class all the principle characters of the painting Venus On The Half-Shell are all blotted out with heavy black paint because of their nudity.

[ultramandingo]

.....check out page one of uncle sam # 5 - red bee rapes human bomb-
"jenna... im going .... to .....explode "

[Robo Ape]

There are plenty of comics to turn to for sexualized characters. Even the Outsiders bit didn't bother me as much since the title was geared more toward adults.

But I couldn't disagree more with the idea that you need sex to make something appealing. I mean I don't have to watch Indy and Marion make sexual remarks to each other, then see a post-coitus scene talking about how hot the sex was to appreciate Raiders of the Lost Ark.

A good writer can build sexual tension with barely making any sexual remarks at all. Think about Mulder and Scully on the X-Files. Their relationship was almost totally a-sexual, but the tension was always there. Reducing them down to a love-making scene would have killed at least part of the fun of the series, and the anticipation of seeing their feelings for each finally getting "un-bottled."

Futhermore, over-sexualized comics actually reinforce the dateless nerd idea you speak of, because most people look over and see some guy salivating over how well a set of teats are drawn and think, "Dang, that guy is desperate."

ETA: Do you even read WW? She's incredibly appealing for the very reason that she doesn't give it up to anyone.

Most mainstream titles are too 'weak' these days, that's one of the reasons I am getting increasingly tired of mainstream super-hero titles. You need a bit of blood & thunder to keep things interesting in my view.

That's why I have been moving over to more manga, vertigo & indy titles. For a perfect example of my ideal title 2000AD over here in the UK shows how it should be done.

[filterpunk]

Most mainstream titles are too 'weak' these days, that's one of the reasons I am getting increasingly tired of mainstream super-hero titles. You need a bit of blood & thunder to keep things interesting in my view.

That's exactly my problem with a lot of books lately. Adult romances are handled like Middle School crushes, characters who are supposedly evil as it gets never pull the trigger, you get the idea. It gets frustrating when you keep waiting for the story to hit a certain point and it ends up fizzling out in some anticlimactic cop-out. Slowly, I'm starting to realize that stuff like Queen & Country, Bomb Queen, or Sleeper is going to do more for me than Checkmate, Thunderbolts, or an all-ages rehash of Wildcats.

[Violently Apathetic]

Sure! I'd like to see more scenes depicting sexuality like this one in upcoming year;

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Kagome654/CCI00000.jpg

How about you guys? There was a distinct lack of gay pillow talk in 2007.

[matt_hatyber]

guys stay to the subject.


on the topic of sexuality in DC i do agree that they have brought down the amount of sexual contents in comics. Truelly i dont really care if there is sex in comics though.

[Lord Trigon]

Gay has nothing to do with this.

Let me just say I was happy when conner died. none of this sould ever happen in the TEEN TITANS comics or with characters un 18 in most casses.

[Khan Zor-El]

guys stay to the subject.


on the topic of sexuality in DC i do agree that they have brought down the amount of sexual contents in comics. Truelly i dont really care if there is sex in comics though.

Sex doesn't belong in comics, at the most a simple suggestion on the matter, but that's about it. But as always, sex will be associated to comic violence & gore, which is a completely different topic all together, but I'm expecting at least one person to make that point. The first comic I bought that had sex in it was Ninjak #1 back in I think 1993, and that was a shock to me what Valiant was able to print. Since then, mainstream publishers slowly began turning out material in nature that is not really needed for kids and teenagers reading comics today.

[filterpunk]

Sex doesn't belong in comics, at the most a simple suggestion on the matter, but that's about it. But as always, sex will be associated to comic violence & gore, which is a completely different topic all together, but I'm expecting at least one person to make that point. The first comic I bought that had sex in it was Ninjak #1 back in I think 1993, and that was a shock to me what Valiant was able to print. Since then, mainstream publishers slowly began turning out material in nature that is not really needed for kids and teenagers reading comics today.

Why do comics, mainstream or otherwise, necessarily have to tailor all their content towards kids and teens? I can understand not having swear words and sex tossed into every single book, but a "mature readers" label should sufficiently establish which books do or don't cross that line.

[Lord Trigon]

yeah I think there was a topic about it when mary marvel went evil and people freaked over the cover because it was referencing some book about this issue.

[Khan Zor-El]

Gay has nothing to do with this.

Let me just say I was happy when conner died. none of this sould ever happen in the TEEN TITANS comics or with characters un 18 in most casses.

Are you talking about Connor and Cassie's romp in the hay in Teen Titans Annual 1?

[davros42]

Me likey. :D

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9255/1031gv4.jpg

Quoted because I too enjoy your disgust. Assuming it is actual disgust and not some sophmoric attempt at sarcasm.

Oh no, people kissing! It's terrible! Hide the kids!

But back on topic, aside from the general sexualization of both the male and female forms, which is at it's worst on Justice League of America. I think it has been a relatively quiet year on the sex front. Some steamy scenes in 52 and Crime Bible, female Hawk's shower scene and implied skankiness, and a skinny dip in Teen Titans.

Are we making progress in comics when we go a year without a female (or male!) character getting raped?

[Lord Trigon]

Are you talking about Connor and Cassie's romp in the hay in Teen Titans Annual 1?


Yeah that

but I wasl also talking about a thread where epeople were getting freaked out by the Mary Marvel cover with Eclipso "Seduction of the Innocent"

why was there such a freak out. someone said something along the lines of the title is bad for comics

[HaroldAllnut]

Sure! I'd like to see more scenes depicting sexuality like this one in upcoming year;

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Kagome654/CCI00000.jpg

How about you guys? There was a distinct lack of gay pillow talk in 2007.

Where was that from? I recognize Obsidian. Was that from Manhunter?

[Violently Apathetic]

Yes, it's from Manhunter #19.

[PretenderNX01]

Gay has nothing to do with this.

Let me just say I was happy when conner died. none of this sould ever happen in the TEEN TITANS comics or with characters un 18 in most casses.

Are you talking about Connor and Cassie's romp in the hay in Teen Titans Annual 1?
He must be, which is strange because as you point out Conner slept with Wonder Girl not Robin so of course gay would not have anything to do with it. :p

Its weird though that he's glad Conner died after seeing him have sex. Wasn't there a whole discussion once about characters being killed after sex? I'd have to look for it but I think its something Winick does.

Quoted because I too enjoy your disgust. Assuming it is actual disgust and not some sophmoric attempt at sarcasm.

Oh no, people kissing! It's terrible! Hide the kids!
Actually I really like it :cool:
(Couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic by calling me sarcastic)

How about you guys? There was a distinct lack of gay pillow talk in 2007.
I know that was branded as "off topic" but I think its actually on topic because I feel sex in terms of part of a healthy caring relationship is a different thing than random one night stands. It depends on the context.

Obsidian and his boyfriends sleeping together is much better than Montoya and some random girl, or Hal and his fling, (even though I love Green Lantern). There was a comic issue that showed Lois and Clark in their room in the morning. One can assume what might have gone on even though it wasn't implied but they're in a committed relationship so its fine with me.

Even Hawkgirl and Red arrow sleeping together was a part of this who emotional dance they were doing. It wasn't just a one-off. They have issues going on, he's trying to be a father and she's lost a girl- so the context still worked for me. Its part of their relationship, even if it was sooner in the relationship than most would feel appropriate.

Context is key.

[HaroldAllnut]

Even Hawkgirl and Red arrow sleeping together was a part of this who emotional dance they were doing. It wasn't just a one-off. They have issues going on, he's trying to be a father and she's lost a girl- so the context still worked for me. Its part of their relationship, even if it was sooner in the relationship than most would feel appropriate.


Although I like the idea of their relationship, its current execution is... well... less than fantastic. I've got to say, I was pretty bummed out by Dwayne McDuffie's first arc. I expected much more than just...

"HEY! IT'S THE INJUSTICE GANG! OH NOES! HEY! FIRESTORM'S A NEW MEMBER OF THE JLA! WOW! THE END."

[Disco Jess Minge]

Just wanted to say this to all the prudes here who are stuffy about sex in the comics.

This is the lesser of the two evils. I'd prefer to see this
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/31.jpg





OVER THAT.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg

[matt_hatyber]

Just wanted to say this to all the prudes here who are stuffy about sex in the comics.

This is the lesser of the two evils. I'd prefer to see this
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/31.jpg





OVER THAT.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg


I totally agree with you.



just wondering, does dc put the age ratings on there comics? because i know marvel does it, or used to do it( i havent read marvel in awhile)

and if they do put age ratings on it, then who cares about sex in comics.

[TheCrisisKid]

I don't see they have to include sex in every comic. I don't see how it adds anything to stories.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Sex?
ew
Give me Superemo ripping Pantha´s head off any day of the week.
I´d rather see people killing each other than kissing each other.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

is to imagine most young kids actually reading our superhero comics when they are already making their own storylines in games, psp's, computer webs and sites. The average comic book reader is not a kid, and they (kids) have comics geared towards them. There's so much more input for them... and these inputs also include violence and sex.

then again, i defend the use of labels that would permit parents to choose readings for their kids (but not those labels with age restrictions, just the content of the said comic book)...

cheers,
rio

[Khan Zor-El]

You rock, Eliseu.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

You rock, Eliseu.
......er, did you notice the :cool: smiley above my post?

[Disco Jess Minge]

I totally agree with you.



just wondering, does dc put the age ratings on there comics? because i know marvel does it, or used to do it( i havent read marvel in awhile)

and if they do put age ratings on it, then who cares about sex in comics.

They definitely don't have the code anymore. And as far as I know, they don't have a rating system like Marvel does. I think they need a lot more than Marvel does. Because when you think about it, Superman vs Wolverine, which parent is gonna choose? The man with the bright red cape or the man with knives sticking out of his hands?

And to Eli, I don't want sex in every comic but I don't want violence that is so graphic, that it belongs in a Vertigo title. That panel I posted is Preacher type violence.

[filterpunk]

They definitely don't have the code anymore. And as far as I know, they don't have a rating system like Marvel does. I think they need a lot more than Marvel does. Because when you think about it, Superman vs Wolverine, which parent is gonna choose? The man with the bright red cape or the man with knives sticking out of his hands?

You're assuming that most parents would even bother to look at the ratings, let alone the content. Only on very rare occasions have ever I run across parents who pay even the slightest attention to the ratings marked on movies, video games, or comics.

As a a teenager, I worked at a video store for a period of about 2 years. In that time, there were only a handful of parents who ever objected to what their kids were trying to rent, but the vast majority of them never even looked at the box, let alone the MPAA rating. So, despite occasional warnings from me if I was familiar with the film, most parents were letting their kids get anything from hentai to Romper Stomper.

At comic book stores, I've only rarely seen parents discussing the content of a book with their kid and in most instances, the parents that do are readers themselves. I can dimly recall a 1990 comic-con where my parents wouldn't let me buy a couple of books, but they only kept me from them because Chris Warner, the creator of those books, grew up with my Mom and they got to chatting...and I didn't even really know who he was, being about 10 years old, so it was mostly a non-issue. I've never heard anyone ask about the Comic Code, the Marvel ratings, or any of that stuff.

Many parents, possibly even most parents, just won't pay any attention to any of it...and really, with the possible exception of things like hardcore porno comics, is little Jimmy really going to come away desensitized? As if some 9 year old is going to read an issue of Preacher and start hacking people up, shouting blasphemy, or having sex with farm animals?

[DavidAllred]

That's exactly my problem with a lot of books lately. Adult romances are handled like Middle School crushes, characters who are supposedly evil as it gets never pull the trigger, you get the idea. It gets frustrating when you keep waiting for the story to hit a certain point and it ends up fizzling out in some anticlimactic cop-out. Slowly, I'm starting to realize that stuff like Queen & Country, Bomb Queen, or Sleeper is going to do more for me than Checkmate, Thunderbolts, or an all-ages rehash of Wildcats.

You mention some nice titles, and I do enjoy grabbing hold of those from time to time, but honestly, I'd hate to see the DCU start looking like that. I'm not sure, maybe there is an age difference when it comes to what people like.

I know when I was in my early 20's Mike Grell's Green Arrow was hitting on all cylinders. It was violent, quite mature, and Ollie didn't mind taking a life here and there. It was one of the few books I actually showed up for every month when the boxes were being opened. It was fresh and gritty.

But if DC were to take Green Arrow that direction today, I'd probably not be happy with it. My tastes have changed as I've grown older and had kids of my own.

I will admit though, it may just be me.

[filterpunk]

You mention some nice titles, and I do enjoy grabbing hold of those from time to time, but honestly, I'd hate to see the DCU start looking like that. I'm not sure, maybe there is an age difference when it comes to what people like.

I know when I was in my early 20's Mike Grell's Green Arrow was hitting on all cylinders. It was violent, quite mature, and Ollie didn't mind taking a life here and there. It was one of the few books I actually showed up for every month when the boxes were being opened. It was fresh and gritty.

But if DC were to take Green Arrow that direction today, I'd probably not be happy with it. My tastes have changed as I've grown older and had kids of my own.

I will admit though, it may just be me.

No, I can totally see where you're coming from, to some extent. If Superman suddenly started flying around, punching holes through people, and banging Wonder Woman every night, it wouldn't be very appropriate. Besides being inappropriate for kids and teens, it just doesn't mesh with the character's ethos. It simply wouldn't be in context for him to do a total 180 and start doing that stuff.

On the other hand, take a book like Manhunter. Kate Spencer is divorced, she smokes, works too much, overlooks the needs of her son at times, and tends to let the end justify the means. She's never been presented as a character who's meant to be accessible for young people, so any sort of sex, violence, or other adult themes fit the established context of the book.

I just advocate a degree of balance between the kid-appropriate and adult material, provided it's done in an appropriate context and in a genuine way.

[Robo Ape]

Sex doesn't belong in comics, at the most a simple suggestion on the matter, but that's about it. But as always, sex will be associated to comic violence & gore, which is a completely different topic all together, but I'm expecting at least one person to make that point. The first comic I bought that had sex in it was Ninjak #1 back in I think 1993, and that was a shock to me what Valiant was able to print. Since then, mainstream publishers slowly began turning out material in nature that is not really needed for kids and teenagers reading comics today.

Why doesn't it, not everyone wants to read some anodyne kid friendly rubbish.

Why do all comics have to be 'child safe'? It's this knee jerk attitude of 'won't somebody think of the children' that annoys me about so much culture these, it's about time parents took responsibility for what their children read & stop expecting everyone else to nanny them.

[lazlo_toth]

Obsidian and his boyfriends sleeping together is much better than Montoya and some random girl, or Hal and his fling, (even though I love Green Lantern). There was a comic issue that showed Lois and Clark in their room in the morning. One can assume what might have gone on even though it wasn't implied but they're in a committed relationship so its fine with me.


There's been a couple of post-coital moments between Superman and Lois:

-right after he came back from the dead, he goes to Lois' apartment, and then the scene cuts to some time later, and he's in the shower while she's doing her hair, and we see the heavily-rumpled sheets on the bed behind her. Fairly innocuous, that one, but we all know what went down..

-During Ed McGuinness' run drawing Superman, there was a scene with both of them in the bathtub, and there were a whole bunch of strawberries and dollops of chocolate sauce splattered all over the place. And Lois was nekkid. So not only was Supes getting it on, he was getting marginally freaky, relatively speaking.

-They also did it during the awful Azzarello/Jim Lee storyline; afterwards, Lois is standing there with nothing on but a bedsheet and Supes is getting all existential.

The point is, knowing that Superman actually has a sex drive actually makes it easier for me to relate to him. Christ, he's married, so you'd think he'd be allowed to have one, even if you're a bit conservative in your social mores. I don't need it to be conatantly flaunted in my face, but I have no objection to once in awhile being reminded that Superman has very human emotions and needs.

[Immortal]

In my opinion complaining about sex and violence in a comic is like complaining about the plot of the story, after all it IS part of the story. You aren't forced to read them. You go to the store, you buy the comic, you read the story.

Why should a writer or artist change his/her story to accommodate for 1 out of ever 20,000 people?

If you don't like it, don't read it.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I find it "fascinating" this need to dumb things down for the kids.
If you took a look at what kids are reading (books, not comicbooks), you´d be amazed at the subjects they address.
Heck, you turn on the tv and every other romantic comedy worth its salt has at least a couple bed scennes loitering about.
Sex is everywhere; sitcoms, series, Sci-Fi, theatre, sculpture, you name a medium and it´s there.

Except comics, of course.
Because God forbid kids see two people kissing in a comicbook.
They will be scarred for life!

[Kelson]

Bart Allen was underage and hanging with a friend in a bar who was drinking it up and coaxing out a menage a trio.

Sorry to nitpick, but Bart was 21 in that book. Unless you're going to go with purely chronological age, in which case he was about 7, and won't be legal until he's physically 35.

[filterpunk]

I find it "fascinating" this need to dumb things down for the kids.

People just like to demonize things they don't understand and "for the children" is the most consistently used excuse to do so.

Anyone else following the crap that Cooper Lawrence tried to pull on FOX News with Mass Effect? It's the same debate that's been played out dozens of times before over video games, comics, movies, and anything else that unaccountable parents or conservative reactionaries can scapegoat. No amount of facts or reasonable arguments will make those people stop being huge bags of douche.

[DavidAllred]

I find it "fascinating" this need to dumb things down for the kids.
If you took a look at what kids are reading (books, not comicbooks), you´d be amazed at the subjects they address.
Heck, you turn on the tv and every other romantic comedy worth its salt has at least a couple bed scennes loitering about.
Sex is everywhere; sitcoms, series, Sci-Fi, theatre, sculpture, you name a medium and it´s there.

Except comics, of course.
Because God forbid kids see two people kissing in a comicbook.
They will be scarred for life!

Kissing? Come on. I've never heard the first complaint about it. And as to sculpture and art, I very much enjoy taking my son to see it when we travel, even though nudity sometimes abounds. But the bottom line to me is that if the hero is on my kid's PJ's and lunchboxes, or owns the JLU box set, it does require some moderation. Speaking of the JLU cartoon, there's an example of how mass sexuality is not needed to tell great stories. There's just enough to make the adults grin, and an episode or two that led to a great converstation with my kids, but I thought it was handled amazingly well. I wouldn't want the whole DCU to be depicted in this way, but there's always room to think about the way we show this important part of the human experience.

[Patrion]

Me likey. :D

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9255/1031gv4.jpg

Sorry, I was just wondering what comic this is from?

[Rabid Trekkie]

Sex doesn't belong in comics, at the most a simple suggestion on the matter, but that's about it. But as always, sex will be associated to comic violence & gore, which is a completely different topic all together, but I'm expecting at least one person to make that point. The first comic I bought that had sex in it was Ninjak #1 back in I think 1993, and that was a shock to me what Valiant was able to print. Since then, mainstream publishers slowly began turning out material in nature that is not really needed for kids and teenagers reading comics today.

While I may tone it down in an all ages book, something akin to the panel where the guy and girl start in front of a window that was posted earlier though is fine in my book, I don't think it needs to be taken out of comics altogether.

That's why we have all ages books and adult books, one is something that parents can share with their kids (and by kids I'm talking about the 5-14 crowd) and the storytelling should be able to appeal to both similar to the way the DCAU was both smart enough for adults and safe for kids. Whereas adults have Vertigo and MAX and the others. Maybe to satisfy some people DC should have a Vertigo line for their biggest heroes?

Oh and that picture of Black Adam ripping that guy in half really crosses the line for violence in an all ages book. Especially with the gore hitting the crowd below.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Kissing? Come on. I've never heard the first complaint about it. And as to sculpture and art, I very much enjoy taking my son to see it when we travel, even though nudity sometimes abounds. But the bottom line to me is that if the hero is on my kid's PJ's and lunchboxes, or owns the JLU box set, it does require some moderation. Speaking of the JLU cartoon, there's an example of how mass sexuality is not needed to tell great stories. There's just enough to make the adults grin, and an episode or two that led to a great converstation with my kids, but I thought it was handled amazingly well. I wouldn't want the whole DCU to be depicted in this way, but there's always room to think about the way we show this important part of the human experience.

Personaly, I think JLU could have gained a lot more if the writers delved into the intimacy of the main characters instead of showing them wearing capes 24/7. I would have LOVED seeing more of the Huntress/Q or the Black Cannary/GA pairings.

There´s nothing wrong with a writer deciding not to explore a certain subject.
It´s completely different when they´re forbidden from addressing it..

As for kids, they know a lot more about sex than you imagine.
And the best part is.... they don´t get exposed to it from reading comics.
Sex_is_everywhere!
If you read some of the books (not comicbooks!) kids are reading these days, they´d make you blush.
Advertising, soap operas, romantic comedies, movies, their peers....
We need to stop treating kids like they´re made of glass.

We were all kids once.
Did any of us get traumatised from seeing Sue Richards make out with Reed?

[filterpunk]

As for kids, they know a lot more about sex than you imagine.

This is probably the most accurate thing that's been said on this thread so far and I think way too many people have a very rose-colored view of what it was like to be a kid or teen. Beyond that, there's a very big generation gap that comes into play, particularly between baby boomers and those of us born in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.

I started swearing heavily when I was 6 or 7, but it wasn't because TV corrupted me, but because a neighborhood friend was tossing vulgarity around and it caught on with me. I started smoking when I was 15 because my parents both smoked and I eventually thought I would try it, not because I saw Nick Fury with a cigar in his mouth. I lost my virginity when I was 16 because my girlfriend was hot, not because I was being bombarded by sex in entertainment. These things don't happen in a bubble and they're certainly not unique to me.

Kids are going to grow up whether anyone wants them to or not and no amount of censorship, short of tossing them in a sensory deprivation chamber, is going to change or delay that.

[lazlo_toth]

They definitely don't have the code anymore. And as far as I know, they don't have a rating system like Marvel does. I think they need a lot more than Marvel does. Because when you think about it, Superman vs Wolverine, which parent is gonna choose? The man with the bright red cape or the man with knives sticking out of his hands?

And to Eli, I don't want sex in every comic but I don't want violence that is so graphic, that it belongs in a Vertigo title. That panel I posted is Preacher type violence.


I certainly don't want any of the titles on my pull to start reading like soft-core porn, believe me. But none of the examples that have been posted on this thread, gay or straight, bother me in the least. And even if they did, I'd rather see that than some of the ridiculously gratuitous violence that both DC and Marvel have been putting out.

Violence is unavoidable, and nothing is more satisfying to me than to see a bad guy who's done something hideously evil get the crap beat out of him in detail. Sometimes it's positively cathartic, and it's probably why I like Garth Ennis as much as I do (although I do find a lot of his work excessive). But there was an issue of Uncanny X-Men not too long ago which was 22 pages of systematic mass murder: A group of Shi'Ar (can Chris Claremont write ANYTHING without bringing the freaking Shi'Ar into it somehow? I swear, if Sovereign 7 hadn't been cancelled he'd've eventually found some way to bring the into the DCU) assassins slaughter damn near every living relative of Jean Grey in a particularly brutal fashion. One of them was a kid, who I believe was locked into some kind of a force bubble and then liquefied somehow, it's hard to tell, I just know it looked unpleasant. A couple of people had the flesh eaten off their bones by some sort of beetles, one elderly gentleman was impaled on the end of a huge spear, and one guy got encased in what I think was living stone. And SHIELD intervened and took the killers into custody before the X-Men could well and truly deliver the
apocalyptic kicking that the karmic balance of the universe demanded.

We can also add the bit where Osiris was bitten in half in 52, or Father Time got his face ripped off in World War III, or any other of the dozens of similarly gory moments. THOSE are the sorts of things you WON'T see on mainstream TV. You can see all kinds of questionable things, but you WILL NOT see a human being torn in half right in front of you or his face ripped off. Seeing a woman take her top off at an angle where you don't actually see any naughty bits, or seeing two obviously naked people (straight or gay) in bed having a moment of post-coital snugglies...that stuff, I'll take that over the gore ten times out of ten.

[sHayden]

I'm going to stand in the middle on this. Sex shouldn't be totally out, yet it shouldn't be flaunted. For example, we don't need to be left to believe that Superman is a eunuch, we should know he's sleeping with Lois Lane, we just don't need to see it every issue.

[Lord Trigon]

Sex?
ew
Give me Superemo ripping Pantha´s head off any day of the week.
I´d rather see people killing each other than kissing each other.

What I think too. when are w gonna see wonder girl die too. unless she makes a good bad guy wile she's still young I think she should be killed off.

But at the same time what Winick likes to do to characters is disturbing. Why would he do that to character does anyone find the whole sex then die thing strange.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

What I think too. when are w gonna see wonder girl die too. unless she makes a good bad guy wile she's still young I think she should be killed off.

Did you notice the :cool: smiley above my post?

[Robo Ape]

I'm going to stand in the middle on this. Sex shouldn't be totally out, yet it shouldn't be flaunted. For example, we don't need to be left to believe that Superman is a eunuch, we should know he's sleeping with Lois Lane, we just don't need to see it every issue.

Yet it's perfectly fine too have a constant supply of violence every issue. Especially as the level & explicitness of violence seems to have increased across the board in recent years.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yet it's perfectly fine too have a constant supply of violence every issue. Especially as the level & explicitness of violence seems to have increased across the board in recent years.


In all fairness, we want kids who read comics to grow into mentaly healthy adults.
In that regard, subjecting them to images of women being killed, cut into slices and shoved into refrigerators is always preferable to sex scennes.

[matt_hatyber]

As a teenager i dont really care about sex and violence, and like some one already pointed out, kids know alot more about sex than people think, and i meen alot more.

[Valeria Kementari]

Seeing a woman take her top off at an angle where you don't actually see any naughty bits, or seeing two obviously naked people (straight or gay) in bed having a moment of post-coital snugglies...that stuff, I'll take that over the gore ten times out of ten.

I second that motion

[HaroldAllnut]

I'm going to stand in the middle on this. Sex shouldn't be totally out, yet it shouldn't be flaunted. For example, we don't need to be left to believe that Superman is a eunuch, we should know he's sleeping with Lois Lane, we just don't need to see it every issue.

Personally, I think Superman's sex life should remain on the private-er side of things just because of the somewhat conservative nature of the character; whereas, seeing Renee Montoya hooking up with her lady friends or Oliver Queen having sex with Dinah Lance (as he most definitely did in the "Quiver" story arc) seems more natural because of the less-than puritanical natures of those characters.

[ultramandingo]

.......DCU Comic Sexuality in 1970

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/dc_girl_comics.jpg

[ultramandingo]

........and so on

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/_blog_uploaded_images_PapaSpank-754.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/batmantouchofdoom.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/comic_tot2.jpg

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Personally, I think Superman's sex life should remain on the private-er side of things just because of the somewhat conservative nature of the character; whereas, seeing Renee Montoya hooking up with her lady friends or Oliver Queen having sex with Dinah Lance (as he most definitely did in the "Quiver" story arc) seems more natural because of the less-than puritanical natures of those characters.

I don´t think Superman is conservative in nature - in fact, I think it´s quite the opposite-.
What I do think is that conservatives have tried - with various degrees of success- to lay claim of the character.

[Valeria Kementari]

........and so on

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/_blog_uploaded_images_PapaSpank-754.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/batmantouchofdoom.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/ultramandingo/comic_tot2.jpg

LOL that was really funny :p

[Robo Ape]

Personally, I think Superman's sex life should remain on the private-er side of things just because of the somewhat conservative nature of the character; whereas, seeing Renee Montoya hooking up with her lady friends or Oliver Queen having sex with Dinah Lance (as he most definitely did in the "Quiver" story arc) seems more natural because of the less-than puritanical natures of those characters.

You may be right about Superman as I believe Kevin Smith once considered if you look at the issue too closely we could encounter all sorts of issues!:eek:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Are you kidding?
Superman´s love life was one of the most entertaining parts of the mythos back in the day.
From him competing with Hercules for Lois to Supergirl masquerading herself as his Super-bride to Lois traveling back in time to break up Superboy´s tie to Lana, his love life used to be a game of Anything Goes.

Absolutely hillarious stuff like they don´t do anymore.

[AllisterH]

We can also add the bit where Osiris was bitten in half in 52, or Father Time got his face ripped off in World War III, or any other of the dozens of similarly gory moments. THOSE are the sorts of things you WON'T see on mainstream TV. You can see all kinds of questionable things, but you WILL NOT see a human being torn in half right in front of you or his face ripped off. Seeing a woman take her top off at an angle where you don't actually see any naughty bits, or seeing two obviously naked people (straight or gay) in bed having a moment of post-coital snugglies...that stuff, I'll take that over the gore ten times out of ten.

I got to agree with this. Slott's run on she-hulk was heavily focused on her sexuality. In fact, I think there more scenes/cutaways/flashbacks where shehulk is mentioned as being flat on her back with her legs in the air than actual supervillain fights.

Yet, I'll take She Hulk's comic over seeing Osiris getting eaten or Pantha getting her head knocked off. Hell, I'll take that over even bloodless scenes like the recent Amazons attacks where the Amazons kill a father and his kid on panel....

[Gnarl]

Can't say I particularily mind She-Hulk having her legs in the air a lot. To me, the essence of the character was a woman who is not afraid, either of societys condemnation or physical violence.

The way physical violence is percieved as more acceptable than sexuality does shock me, though.

I frequently remember Divus honeymoon in Politiken when seeing this stuff.

[IamtheRock3]

Can't say I particularily mind She-Hulk having her legs in the air a lot. To me, the essence of the character was a woman who is not afraid, either of societys condemnation or physical violence.

The way physical violence is percieved as more acceptable than sexuality does shock me, though.

I frequently remember Divus honeymoon in Politiken when seeing this stuff.


think when you combined the two is when people get iffy

or how EXPLICT

you can get away with a chainsaw to a person head it you cut away, but not full frontal

BUT

if you dont cut away that not the case

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think violence in mainstream comics is only a couple decades old, grwoing up in the 80s I remember that there used to be lots of action but the bloodshed was kept down.
Somewhere down the line, someone decided that action should mean explicit bloodshed and now you can´t have one without the other.

[filterpunk]

Somewhere down the line, someone decided that action should mean explicit bloodshed and now you can´t have one without the other.

I think it was probably when people started to wonder why things like stabbing someone through the gut with a sword would make their clothing stretch. It's that disconnect that happens when you realize that these characters who are supposed to be sooooo evil never really pull the trigger.

Of course, the industry overcompensated like crazy and gave us the 90's, but things balanced out well enough once the dust settled.

Interestingly enough, while bloodshed was never too common, sadism was all over the place. My favorite example? The cover of Daredevil #160, which depicts Bullseye strangling Black Widow with a hair dryer cord.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Violence and bloodshed were much more implicit and subjective than, mostly because of the Code.
I don´t wanna bring it back (- Hell, no!!), but a bit of self-regulation when it comes to cutting women into slices or exploding Pantha´s head with a punch would be most welcomed on my part.

[LungerTony]

I kind of enjoy the "bloodshed." I don't find it over-the-top, but realistic enough.
Granted, it might not be appropriate for small children, and I respect people who have the grievance...but I enjoy it. Besides, I am not so sure about DC, but I know Marvel has a line designed for children, where all that crap doesn't exist. And the Mavel Adventures (kid line) is actually really good...I read it.

[dancj]

As long as two men aren't shown kissing, I'm fine with everything else.
As long as they'll happily show two men or two women doing anything that they'd show a man and a woman doing (where physically possible) then I'm happy.

[dancj]

I disagree. I think it's gratuitous sexuality that is more likely to make people think of 'dateless nerds' who are sexually repressed and need titillation from a comic book. Of course I'm thinking more the scantily clad females with impossible figures than sexuality as a plot point, but I don't think omitting sexuality will feed the stereotype of dateless wonders any more than an Adam Hughes Catwoman cover.
That's exactly the point that I was going to make - though I was going to pick on Ed Benes and Michael Turner. At least Hughes does cheesecake with some degree of skill.

[Greg Anderson]

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg

Holy damn, where is this from?! This is awesome! :D :o

[Thnikkaman]

Holy damn, where is this from?! This is awesome! :D :o

52, week 3, if I remember right.

[Slaughter]

Black Adam is just the awesome king of blood and gore!! All hail Black Adam!

[Bat-Reader]

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg

wow this's amazing ! :eek: Black Adam Rules !

[David O Burcham]

Just wanted to say this to all the prudes here who are stuffy about sex in the comics.

This is the lesser of the two evils. I'd prefer to see this
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/31.jpg





OVER THAT.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg



I think super-hero comics should most definitely be kept accessable to all ages. "All Ages" does NOT mean Johnny DC-type content (or Marvel Adventure, for that matter). It isn't a matter of content. It's a matter of creative laziness.

The 70's and 80's proved that sex and violence could be incorporated into super-hero comic books suitable for all ages to read. It was a matter of writers and artists having the creativity to pull it off.

Superboy and Wonder Girl having sex and Black Adam ripping Terra Man are both moments that could have happened in comics past.... the difference is that the creative teams back then wouldn't have taken the LAZY way out in depicting them.

[gorthon616]

No offense, but I think some people are missing the point. These are super-hero comics. And to a certain extent that means these characters are supposed to be standing for (whether in an idealistic sense or in a more realistic sense) the representation of people who try to do good, look out for people, and be responsible... not act like a bunch of drunken college kids.

[gorthon616]

No offense, but I think some people are missing the point. These are super-hero comics. And to a certain extent that means these characters are supposed to be standing for (whether in an idealistic sense or in a more realistic sense) the representation of people who try to do good, look out for people, and be responsible... not act like a bunch of drunken college kids.

[blackphoenix]

Just wanted to say this to all the prudes here who are stuffy about sex in the comics.

This is the lesser of the two evils. I'd prefer to see this
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/31.jpg





OVER THAT.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd157/BSB84/DC52Week3-021.jpg


AMEN.
What the hell is up with DC and all the blood letting lately? You can't go two panels without seeing someone beheaded or disembowled.

I for one am all for sex in comics. Most of it is so PG, I am suprised any could be offended.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

No offense, but I think some people are missing the point. These are super-hero comics. And to a certain extent that means these characters are supposed to be standing for (whether in an idealistic sense or in a more realistic sense) the representation of people who try to do good, look out for people, and be responsible... not act like a bunch of drunken college kids.

True, adults don´t have sex, only drunken college kids do that.
Being adults means doing more mature, meaningful things like exploding Pantha´s head.

[filterpunk]

No offense, but I think some people are missing the point. These are super-hero comics. And to a certain extent that means these characters are supposed to be standing for (whether in an idealistic sense or in a more realistic sense) the representation of people who try to do good, look out for people, and be responsible... not act like a bunch of drunken college kids.

That's funny, because I've always viewed superheroes as an allegorical take on real life themes. In order to do that well, each character needs to have a moral compass, but that should never mean that every single character who gets the "hero" label necessarily has theirs pointed in the same direction.

What you're suggesting is that moral ambiguity has no place in comic books, which smacks of a whole lot of Judeo-Christian posturing. If that's not the case, then you have to accept that "do good" and "be responsible" are often ambiguous terms. While there are certain acts that are generally considered reprehensible or immoral, like murder, you can't paint the world in broad strokes of black and white.

For example, in Germany, in the 60's and 70's, there were a number of former Nazis holding prominent positions in both business and politics. In 1977, one of these men, Hanns-Martin Schleyer was kidnapped by members of the RAF, a left-wing extremist group, to try and negotiate the release of imprisoned RAF members. Ultimately, the government did not give in to these demands and the RAF killed Schleyer. This was one among many terrorist acts committed by the group.

Now, this is clearly immoral, but is it so simple that you say, "that's bad" and call it a day? I suppose it depends on whether you believe Schleyer's death was justifiable, given his history with the Hitler Youth and the SS, and that he was only held for three years for his role in those groups, despite the strong possibility that he contributed to the process of industrial murder committed by the Nazis. From one perspective, the RAF did something bad, irresponsible, indefensible, immoral, and "villainous." From another, they executed a villain who should have been in jail and was instead being allowed to have a direct hand in the development of post-war Germany. If you're pointing the "drunken college kid" finger, is it applicable to say that about RAF members like Ulrike Meinhof, then a well-known journalist for Konkret magazine, or Horst Mahler, a lawyer?

My point is, using superheroes as a means to explore that kind of morality play is vital to the genre, not some kind of weird growth that's eroding it. I'd rather be the one to determine what's right or wrong in that play instead of enduring page after page of the writer shoving their perception of it down my throat.

[gorthon616]

True, adults don´t have sex, only drunken college kids do that.
Being adults means doing more mature, meaningful things like exploding Pantha´s head.

YES. And flying around in costumes!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

YES. And flying around in costumes!

Nah, that´s for drunken college kids.

[DavidAllred]

No offense, but I think some people are missing the point. These are super-hero comics. And to a certain extent that means these characters are supposed to be standing for (whether in an idealistic sense or in a more realistic sense) the representation of people who try to do good, look out for people, and be responsible... not act like a bunch of drunken college kids.

I don't think every comic book has to read in a way where the primary character is heroic, but I do think that the ones on my kid's lunchbox should be. I mean, I don't buy my kid Spawn pajamas, or Swamp Thing night shirts and I love reading those characters.

I do think reading comics was an important part of my moral development as a kid and a teenager. But I grew up reading Denny O'Neil's Green Lantern / Green Arrow and Alan Moore's V for Vendetta came out when I was in the 8th grade.

What you have today are companies that basically believe that high school kids, and maybe early college age kids are incapable of understanding and appreciating stories with that kind of complexity to them. So they flood the market with sex and violence, and gimmicks, or in your words, "drunken college kids."

Personally, the sex and violence thing isn't as offensive to me as the belief that I'm too stupid to appreciate anything else.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Nah, that´s for drunken college kids.

I mean no offense and doubt it was intentional, but your comments and the name of this thread remind me of the blithe treatment of Windfall's gang rape in Suicide Squad. That ought to top the list of 'poorly addressed topics', which, in fairness, is unusual of Suicide Squad.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I mean no offense and doubt it was intentional, but your comments and the name of this thread remind me of the blithe treatment of Windfall's gang rape in Suicide Squad. That ought to top the list of 'poorly addressed topics', which, in fairness, is unusual of Suicide Squad.

Not sure how to interpret your post, but despite my posts being somewhat tongue-in-cheek so far, I do think violence is many-many orders of magnitute more grave than sex no matter which medium it is being portrayed.
Give me the footage of someone being beheaded and a clip of two people having sex and I´ll choose the later without a moment of hesitation.
Why is this still an argument?
They´re not even in the same LEAGUE, it´s like comparing Hitler to Ghandi, having a root canal or being kissed.

I do find it interesting that you would bring "rape" into the equation.

IMHO, "Rape" is not synonimous to sex.
Sex is intimacy, pleasure, trust and (hopefuly) love.

"Rape" is violence.

[Kage Kisaragi]

The only thing sweeping sexual content under the rug will do is further marginalize comics as the domain of the stereotypical dateless nerd.

There is nothing wrong with sexual content and young people are not harmed by seeing it.

By pretending everyone's asexual you'll wind up with everyone being like Wonder Woman, a sixty year old virgin that's unrelatable because she lacks basic human desires.

Diana does to have basic human needs, its just that.. uh, shes to busy being chased by Nazi's and intelligent gorillas to worry about getting laid up thrice a week.

[Suzanne]

Except for the Green Arrow/Black Canary stuff and Hawkgirl shacking up with Roy, I don't remember anything too sexual in the comics I read last year. I have no problems whatsoever with that or violence in comics. I'm a big girl who can handle it, but I still respect Stamen's POV. I don't have kids, but I allow my nieces and nephews to browse my comics. I keep anything inappropriate out of their reach.

[Stanlos]

"It’s a sad commentary on American morals that the sex is the thing that people object to. I find that sad, but it is true. I can describe an axe entering a person’s skull and no one objects, but if I describe a penis entering a vagina, there’s an outcry."

--George R.R. Martin

http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Fantasy/george-martin.shtml

That sir is why I don't pay attention to anything the Motion Picture Association of America has to say. You can't tell me something like ONCE deserves an R rating while LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD gets PG13. That is pure bollocks.

[Stanlos]

True, adults don´t have sex, only drunken college kids do that.
Being adults means doing more mature, meaningful things like exploding Pantha´s head.

:p ROFL

I will laugh at this observation in my sleep!! LOL!!!

[AllisterH]

That sir is why I don't pay attention to anything the Motion Picture Association of America has to say. You can't tell me something like ONCE deserves an R rating while LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD gets PG13. That is pure bollocks.

The real sad thing about this discussion is that we don't actually SEE scenes of SEX in comics. We see the build-up (along the lines of that Cassie-Conner scene) and we see the aftermath (Kendra and Roy in poist-coital snuggles) but we don't actually see scenes of nudity or sex.

Yet it seems people are more offended by the above two scenes than superboy punching Pantera's head off.

Its the same thing in real life. Many people see to have no problem allowing their kids to watch UFC yet a standard porno? Oh, run for the hill, think of the children!!!!

YEAH, we got problems as a culture...

[ultramandingo]

The real sad thing about this discussion is that we don't actually SEE scenes of SEX in comics

".....check out page one of uncle sam # 5 - red bee rapes human bomb-
"jenna... im going .... to .....explode "

[AllisterH]

".....check out page one of uncle sam # 5 - red bee rapes human bomb-
"jenna... im going .... to .....explode "

Personally, I'm even more worried that the more famous scenes of actual sex always seem to involve violence. (Sue Dibny's rape and the Red Bee/Human Bomb example).

Why did we never get a scene with the Elongated man showing why Sue always had a smile on her face, yet we get a graphic depiction of her rape?

Yeah, that really says a lot about us, doesnt it?:(

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Personally, I'm even more worried that the more famous scenes of actual sex always seem to involve violence. (Sue Dibny's rape and the Red Bee/Human Bomb example).

Why did we never get a scene with the Elongated man showing why Sue always had a smile on her face, yet we get a graphic depiction of her rape?

Yeah, that really says a lot about us, doesnt it?:(

That bothers me a lot too.
there´s nothing wrong about two adults involved in consentual sex, why does it have to have violence involved?

[filterpunk]

Interestingly enough, did anyone else happen to pick up X-Force #1 yesterday? Plenty of outright gore in that one, but rather than slap a "mature readers" tag somewhere, the cover simply has no rating. A peek at Marvel's site shows it as a "Parental Advisory" title, but it's not much of an advisory if nobody bothered to print it anywhere on the actual comic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the content and frankly, could give a crap about "the children." I just always amused that saying "bitch" or viciously slashing someone open is OK, but dropping the f-bomb or depicting adult relationships more capably than Archie and Veronica is a direct contributor to destroying a child's mind.

Dunno about anyone else, but I'll take a bit of new-school swearing, nudity, and gore over old-school stories about a 19 year old Colossus dating 13 year old Kitty Pryde. Ew.