The Presidential Career Path!

[Gordon Smith]

What with this being an election year, I thought we might like to discuss the path which takes a presidential candidate to the White House. Now, this is not about personalities or policy preferences, but rather, what educational, professional and political way-stations a candidate could or perhaps should take en route to the presidency. If you could build the ideal presidential candidate from scratch, what would his career track look like?

A few questions which may set discussion in motion:

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in?

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?

[Hellbaby]

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in? A foreign language

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school? Yes. Most of the time.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not? Yes. They have to be out on the frontline though, so they can see war first hand. If you're up in a plane, dropping bombs on people from thousands of feet up, you don't see how it affects the victims up close. Being down on the ground as an infantry soldier, you can see up close the effects.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business? No. The government should not be run like a corporation, such as McDonald's. It should try to HELP people.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)? I would think so, at least to some degree. They need experience.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government? Again, at least to a certain extent. They don't have to be a General or chief, but they at least need to work in the system to understand it's ins and outs.

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad? Yes. Not every country has to like us, but at least they can view us with respect. Acting like a fool in the public eye, especially on a global level, hurts the reputation of the country.

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency? No.

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member? No, not necessarily.

[Gordon Smith]

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school? No



Why do you think candidates shouldn't attend post-grad school? How can people pursue professional careers in fields like the law (or for that matter, careers in the military or civil service? without advanced degrees? Don't we want our public servants and candidates for office to be as well-educated as possible?

[Hellbaby]

Why do you think candidates shouldn't attend post-grad school? How can people pursue professional careers in fields like the law (or for that matter, careers in the military or civil service? without advanced degrees? Don't we want our public servants and candidates for office to be as well-educated as possible?

Well, come to think of it, I will change my opinion on that. A little bit.

I think it would help, but it's not entirely necessary.

Alexander the Great was educated by Aristotle, and he was a great leader, at least in military affairs.

However, the Han Dynasty in China, which ended up becoming one of the greatest dynasties, was founded by Liu Bang, who was born a peasant and rose to become emperor through the military.

So, education can help, but in some circumstances, it's not entirely necessary.

[Hiromi]

Knowing quite a few Infantry persons myself I can say confidently you may not want them running the entire country, heh.

[Alex L]

A few questions which may set discussion in motion:

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in?
Hard call. There's too many fields that can apply, but if I take the approach of "Congress sets policy, President is a figurehead" then probably anthropology/psychology; some sort of field where you learn about people (anthro = people from different cultures, psych = what makes people tick). If it's going to be a stronger President, then perhaps a hard science.

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?
Education is never a bad thing -- unless you get it at the total expense of real-world experiences. You can learn about running a business all you like, but until you actually go out and do it...

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?
I don't think so. Aside from using it as a selling point (I am more patriotic than my opponent), I don't see a vital need for a President to have been in the military.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?
Like just about any experience, it wouldn't hurt. In some respects, the government really is a giant business.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?
Yes. If you take someone who's never held office, and drop them in the highest profile position in the country, their inexperience would definitely be a handicap. Doesn't have any experience working with the other party, doesn't have experience being accountable to constituents.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?
Like just about any experience, it wouldn't hurt. Hardly required, though.

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?
Like just about any experience, it wouldn't hurt. Hardly required, though.

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?
Like just about any experience, it wouldn't hurt. OTOH, the veep doesn't really do anything, though. Serves as a tiebreaker for the Senate on the rare occasions votes are split 50-50... so aside from being a high-profile position, it may not have much actual application to the highest office in the land.

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?
I don't see how such an experience would help.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not? Yes. They have to be out on the frontline though, so they can see war first hand. If you're up in a plane, dropping bombs on people from thousands of feet up, you don't see how it affects the victims up close. Being down on the ground as an infantry soldier, you can see up close the effects.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree. This may sound callous, but if a President has gone through the tragedy of war in full effect, said President may become trigger-shy to a dangerous extent (not wanting to put anyone else in harm's way).

I get that a country shouldn't risk its troops needlessly, but at the same time not deploying troops when you should have, can allow a problem to escalate by the time you realize that intervention IS required.

[K'Nort]

Don't we want our public servants and candidates for office to be as well-educated as possible?

Not entirely. Professional training is fine, certainly. But the higher you go in the educational system, the more insulated you get from the general public. And stay insulated. Not good. Also, as others are pointing out, the hands-on practical stuff is very important too. Probably more important. You get way too much "this is for your own good" from the scholars.

Populists can go too far with this idea, of course.

[K'Nort]

Also, here's an interesting new book (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9781595551009&itm=4) that addresses a lot of this.

In theory, the link will take you to an excerpt. Scroll down just a bit.

[Gordon Smith]

Also, here's an interesting new book (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9781595551009&itm=4) that addresses a lot of this.

In theory, the link will take you to an excerpt. Scroll down just a bit.

Interesting. I'll have to see if I can find a copy.

[Magneto X]

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not? Yes. They have to be out on the frontline though, so they can see war first hand. If you're up in a plane, dropping bombs on people from thousands of feet up, you don't see how it affects the victims up close. Being down on the ground as an infantry soldier, you can see up close the effects.

Should every Governor, then, have experience in the national guard and the prison system? Should every Mayor have been in the police force?

[lucasb]

None of this stuff is necessary.

An election is a popularity contest. If Arnold Schwarzenegger had been born in the U.S., he'd be on track to be President in the not-too-distant future.

Now, if you want to talk about what experiences would be helpful to build a qualified President, that's a whole 'nother smoke.

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in?

I'm tempted to say sociology. But I've met a few sociologists, even worked for one...and without exception they were very smart individuals who wrote learned articles in books and journals--and completely sucked at dealing with other people in real life.
Perhaps that's anecdotal, but what I, personally, would like to see in a President is an education in hard science. Engineering, physics, biology, etc.
The concept of electing someone to the highest office who doesn't even believe in evolution, frankly, scares me. Maybe I've read too much Heinlein, but I'd really like to see a scientist in charge. Somebody who would understand why a levy might collapse in a hurricane, or who had a grasp of the realities behind stem-cell research.

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?

It depends on the field. And while more knowledge is generally a positive thing, Alex had a good point about real-world experience being superior in some cases.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path?

Essential, no, but certainly helpful. A President should understand EXACTLY what he is asking of the people he sends into harm's way. He should, in fact, have served in a command position where he has had to make hard decisions involving other people's lives, and see the consequences of those decisions up close and personal.

Again, Alex had a good point about the possibility of this making the candidate "trigger-shy". But this is a question of the individual's strength of character, and how he reacts to such experiences. It's just as easy to say that someone who has no personal experience of combat could be a "chickenhawk" willing to throw away lives as if he were playing a video game.
To me, the ideal candidate would have been tempered by his military experiences inasmuch as he'd be capable of making the hard choices, but would make them only as a last resort.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?

Depends on the business. I would be mistrustful of someone who worked for, say, an insurance company that had a record of turning down claims. As a general rule, experience in managing a business is probably not directly comparable to running a government institution.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?

I would think this would be almost a requirement. So, yes, certainly.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?

Helpful, not necessary.


7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?

By all means, this would be very useful in helping him to understand the often very different mindsets of other cultures.

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?

Not really. It would be helpful inasmuch as understanding the behind-the-scenes procedures that are carried on by the President, but then the candidate will have his own methods of doing things. So, moderately useful experience but by no means important or necessary.

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?

Again, moderately helpful in understanding procedures, but even less necessary than a Vice Presidential post.

(Aside: I have used "he" and "him" for the sake of convenience, but obviously a Presidential candidate can be female.)

Should every Governor, then, have experience in the national guard and the prison system? Should every Mayor have been in the police force?

If he plans to declare war on neighboring states, absolutely. ;)

[darkhanamaru]

What with this being an election year, I thought we might like to discuss the path which takes a presidential candidate to the White House. Now, this is not about personalities or policy preferences, but rather, what educational, professional and political way-stations a candidate could or perhaps should take en route to the presidency. If you could build the ideal presidential candidate from scratch, what would his career track look like?

A few questions which may set discussion in motion:

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in? An interdisciplinary major that involves critical thinking and must include science.

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?Yes. I think a training in policy and/or comparative international political science would be useful.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?To be electable, yes. In practice, no but i think the president should get a primer in military science but someone other than the joint chiefs.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?I think it teaches expereince with having to be responsive to clients and exposes a person to other people more then other professions.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)? All politics in the US essentially comes down to the local and anyway, that is how you get tied into the party system so my answer is unless you have family ties, you start local.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?
no, not necessary

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?I think they should have to had lived overseas at some point in some capacity

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?Not necessary

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?Not necessary

[Mike Smash!]

What with this being an election year, I thought we might like to discuss the path which takes a presidential candidate to the White House. Now, this is not about personalities or policy preferences, but rather, what educational, professional and political way-stations a candidate could or perhaps should take en route to the presidency. If you could build the ideal presidential candidate from scratch, what would his career track look like?

A few questions which may set discussion in motion:

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in? Law, political science, history, economics... not one is specifically needed, but candidate should have a good education and knowledge of all of them. Education in philosophy would be a plus as well.

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?Not necessarily, but more education can't really be a detriment.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?Not at all. I see no reason why a president should have to serve in the military to be an effective Commander in Chief.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?Not necessarily.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?No real requirement, but extra experience is always a plus. But a career in politics need not involve elected service. I can use the example of Nader's lengthy career as a citizen lobbyist and activist and you can see someone with a record that rivals any federal legislator. I do care about experience and effectiveness, but that can be acquired outside of public office, such as community activism or other venues.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?Not necessarily. Especially looking at the way some departments are run these days.

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?It could be a plus, but by no means a necessity.

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?Not necessarily. Especially given the sorts of folks that have held the presidency. I wouldn't want a candidate approved of by one of them.

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?Not necessarily. I care far more for the quality of their experience rather than their accumulation of it.

[Fenris]

I kind of doubt that there is an ideal career path for Presidents. The job is unique, and different circumstances call for different people. So if I seem to be answering most questions negatively, that's why.


1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in?

Theology.



Just kidding! Actually, I don't presume that.

Most modern universities aren't about broadening the mind, or the general enhancement of knowledge; they're social/class indicators, and their purpose is to enable white-collar employment. A diploma tells employers, "This person belongs to the middle/upper class, or else is really smart and dedicated to joining those classes."

Of course, people do learn things during the years spent at a university. But I can't think of anything they'd necessarily learn that is really critical to being a good president.


2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?

I guess this one's kind of pre-empted by #1.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?

Why not? Um... well, because this isn't Starship Troopers. The civilian government runs the military, not the other way around.

The military does teach leadership, but the environment is very different from that of civilian politics. I doubt that it's really that useful.


4: Should a candidate have experience in business?

If you're really successful at business, you may have a lot of money to spend on your campaign. So there's that.

But I'm not sure I see any other benefits. Business and politics are different skill sets- they don't do the same things, and they're not that much alike.

(Witness Mitt Romney, who succeeded in business by laying people off, saying that he should be president because his experience will help him save people's jobs. How does that work?)


5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?

He should definitely have some prior political experience; the Presidency should not be his first electoral office. But if by "career," you mean he's done nothing else in his life but be a party agent/appointee/campaigner, then no.


6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?

That might give some useful experience. On the other hand, how many presidents have risen this way?


7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?

It certainly sounds good. I'm trying to think of any presidents, aside from the founding fathers (who were so short-handed that they did all kinds of things themselves) who were ambassadors before taking the office.

I suspect that most presidents are elected on domestic-policy considerations, and ambassadorships are considered a low priority as a consequence. But like I said; in theory, it certainly sounds good.


8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?

Ehhh. The position of Vice President is based on the electoral calculations of the man running for President; as a selection mechanism, that doesn't really tell us much. Just look at most Veeps!


9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?

Only if you want a President who is closely tied to previous administrations. Which doesn't seem like an automatically-good thing.


õ
Except on West Wing!

[K'Nort]

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?

Why not? Um... well, because this isn't Starship Troopers. The civilian government runs the military, not the other way around.

The military does teach leadership, but the environment is very different from that of civilian politics. I doubt that it's really that useful.

I just want to point out that Fenris is currently in the military.


7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?

It certainly sounds good. I'm trying to think of any presidents, aside from the founding fathers (who were so short-handed that they did all kinds of things themselves) who were ambassadors before taking the office.

Bush I.

[Fenris]

I just want to point out that Fenris is currently in the military.

To the dismay of national-security advocates everywhere!

[Ambassadors for President?]

Bush I.

Hey, you're right! And, now that you mention him, it occurs to me that he was also the head of the CIA (i.e. a government agency), a Vice President, a university graduate, a veteran, a Representative, an oil businessman...

This is the perfect career path for another Bush 1!


õ
If that's what we want!

[Valmore]

1: If we presume that a presidential candidate ought to attend university, what should he major in?

Probably what most of them have - law. Though political science or social services or something would be acceptable.

2: Should a candidate attend post-graduate school?

It wouldn't hurt, but I wouldn't hold it against the candidate if he or she hadn't.

3: Is military service an essential part of the presidential career path? If not, why not?

No. One need not have been an actual member of the military. Just be smart enough to hire commanders to get the job done if needed.

4: Should a candidate have experience in business?

Not really.

5: Should a candidate pursue a career in local, state or federal politics (or some combination thereof)?

I would prefer it if they have some sort of experience in some sort of office, or at least working in the area.

6: Should a candidate have previous experience managing a department (or other agency) of the federal government?

Helpful, but not needed.

7: Should a candidate have some measure of diplomatic experience, perhaps by way of an ambassadorial posting abroad?

No. Too many diplomats are simply cronies of previous administrations to get a nice-looking thing for their resume while having a vacation for a few years.

8: Is it desirable for a candidate to have occupied the vice presidency?

Depends on the candidate.

9: Should a candidate have past experience as a White House aide or staff member?

Doesn't hurt, but not needed.