Is It Time For A NEW Web-Swinger?

[ZT4]

Brand New Day should have been all about a relaunching everyone could stomach...instead we got the final, definitive character-rape of an iconic figure who has been trerated with as much malice by his editors as Peter suffered at the hands of condescending Thompson-herded crowds.

And it was all because nobody knew what to do anymore with a Peter who had accomplished virtually everything sans the diaper-changing duties.

They had the solution during The Clone Saga, Ben Reily, but he became as much a victim of the unclear destination of the Saga and fan boycotting as Peter did. He was fine as Scarlet Spider, fans liked him as his own person, but he could'nt be presented as the "real" Peter Parker.

The Clone Saga gave Peter his happy ending, they did'nt need to make Ben his clone, he could've been someone else who was bitten by a Spider, a victim of random circumstances, that Peter would make his apprentice and train, and then relinquish the batton too.

And if not Ben, then why not someone else? Is it finally time to risk giving the coustume to someone else? We're preparing to embrace Bucky as Cap, but he's familiar. What about Kyle Rayner? Even Timm's Terry Mcguiness?

And with the Red Hulk spearheading Loeb's title...that's undeniable proof Marvel did'nt need to keep the same character around if all that is required is changing the face.

Granted, Kyle did'nt last, to many fans chagrin, but he lasted long enough to gain a fanbase and prove a generational heir can succeed in a role held by a "definitive version"

And let's not forget that Hal's turn to evil was considered as flawed as OMD. With the praise BND is getting is a parralel of Kyle's beggining as GL...you hated how we got here, but you like where we're at.

So is it time we took a risk again? Embrace the ideas that Cap and Hulk are taking with Spidey? I say yes

[Red Lotus]

they did this before, but it didn't last long. Just like 3 issue.

[ZT4]

I don't know what makes DC so...durable at it and Marvel not so...

[DDM]

Ben Reilly attempted to replace Peter Parker was the one true Spider-Man in the early 1990's; as a result, Marvel literally lost their core fans. It has taken Marvel over a decade to get new fans or retrieve the original fans.

I am one of those fans who have not read Spidey since The Clone Saga. I just don't see the Peter Parker I've read before, although Marvel tried their best to restore Peter Parker being the one true Spider-Man.

I can see Marvel doing a similar stunt again given the current editors seem blind about Marvel's past mistakes.

[DDM]

I don't know what makes DC so...durable at it and Marvel not so...

Although they are in the comic book publishing business, they have very different universes & characters. One would not write Peter Parker as Clark Kent.
The Marvel Universe is established to be an interactive universe where Spidey is likely to run into the FF on his way to somewhere else. Marvel's characters have flaws, but they are also very much HEROES.

[Sean Whitmore]

I don't know what makes DC so...durable at it and Marvel not so...

DC isn't exactly the best example of legacy heroes these days.

Hal Jordan is back, Kyle Rayner is just a face in the crowd
Oliver Queen is back, Connor Hawke is brain-dead
Hourman robot is dead, Hourman I has been resurrected.
Bart Allen is dead, Wally West is back. (True, he's a legacy hero too, but still)

It's an untenable situation. The iconic heroes will never be replaced, because it's ingrained in the public consciousness that they are who they are. This goes for Batman, Superman, and, I'd argue, now Spider-Man.

And as for lower-tier heroes, who could easily be replaced, there's always gonna be some nostalgic writer who wants to bring back the original model. Ben was doomed from the start, and any newcomer will ultimately meet the same fate.


SEAN

[DarKye]

Let's make MVP replace Peter as the true Spider-Man. While one of them goes to work, other can go wallcrawling and the last one... Huh, stays home and plays videogames or something. Then they rotate turns.

THREE SCARLET SPIDER-MEN.


That would totally work.

[ZT4]

DC isn't exactly the best example of legacy heroes these days.

Hal Jordan is back, Kyle Rayner is just a face in the crowd
Oliver Queen is back, Connor Hawke is brain-dead
Hourman robot is dead, Hourman I has been resurrected.
Bart Allen is dead, Wally West is back. (True, he's a legacy hero too, but still)

Wally is thankfully still the exception to the rule, Bart I felt was'nt ready to be Flash, but his death was still a pitiful decision.
I don't think there's one person who thinks that WON'T be retconned eventually.

Wally's "my" Flash just as Married Peter was "my" Spider-Man. He's also lasted, generations wise, longer than Kyle and Connor in the role for about twenty years or so, that's a milestone for anyone succeeding anybody, so it makes sense to keep what clearly worked.

[rZi]

My original post was a bit cruel so i'll try to be constructive (sorry sean :p)

Thinking back to the clone saga of the 90's i rememeber everyone being really hyped about what Reily would bring to the table as the scarlet spider as it was the first time it had been done with full commitment.

If the steel spider somehow got a new arm it'd be hilarious. I can't really think of anyone else to take the mantle unless a clone of some kind. OR THE SPIDER-MUGGAH!

[Sean Whitmore]

Oh, I'd buy The Spectacular Spider-Mugger.

Think about it: Make it a MAX book, get Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon on it? Are you kidding me? I wish I could subscribe tomorrow!


SEAN

[matthewaos]

It's funny how DC can do this all the time (except for Batman and Superman) and marvel can't, or won't.

[CyberCoyote]

The great part about the mask is you can pass it on. I'd have no problems with a story where Pete faces making a deal with the Devil and passes the mantel along to a new Spider-Man. I wanted Ben to last, I'd take him back again.

[Monty_Cristo]

Eric O'Grady should get the spider-powers. or Dan Slott can just keep on doing what he's doing. :)

[Red Lotus]

It's funny how DC can do this all the time (except for Batman and Superman) and marvel can't, or won't.

Marvel does do this. Look at Cap now. How about Ghost Rider, Antman, Daredevil, Iron Man.

[Alan2099]

Marvel does do this. Look at Cap now. How about Ghost Rider, Antman, Daredevil, Iron Man.

Better example, Human Torch.

[Mister Mets]

Love the loaded polls.

Until Marvel has a better character than Peter Parker, Peter should remain Spider-Man for a long long time.

Brand New Day has just made that likelier.

[rZi]

Oh, I'd buy The Spectacular Spider-Mugger.

Think about it: Make it a MAX book, get Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon on it? Are you kidding me? I wish I could subscribe tomorrow!


SEAN

haha myself too. It'd need some mean ass artists though.....mcfarlane!

[matthewaos]

There are 8 votes for yes and 7 for no...

[ZT4]

10 yes, 11 no now.

I really was'nt expecting head-to-head results...granted it's only one person per vote but nice to see I'm not just burned out on Peter

[Mister Mets]

10 yes, 11 no now.

I really was'nt expecting head-to-head results...granted it's only one person per vote but nice to see I'm not just burned out on Peter
I just made it 10 yes, 12 no. I previously hadn't voted because the option "Meh. Give Peter one more day" didn't properly sum up my feelings on the subjects the way something "No! Peter Parker's too awesome to be replaced." :D

I don't know what makes DC so...durable at it and Marvel not so... With Marvel comics, people usually care more about the secret identity/ private life than they would in the DC counterparts. Peter Parker is just as important as Spider-Man.

[Mister Mets]

Brand New Day should have been all about a relaunching everyone could stomach...instead we got the final, definitive character-rape of an iconic figure who has been trerated with as much malice by his editors as Peter suffered at the hands of condescending Thompson-herded crowds.
Fred Thompson should have nothing to do with this!

And it was all because nobody knew what to do anymore with a Peter who had accomplished virtually everything sans the diaper-changing duties.

They had the solution during The Clone Saga, Ben Reily, but he became as much a victim of the unclear destination of the Saga and fan boycotting as Peter did. He was fine as Scarlet Spider, fans liked him as his own person, but he could'nt be presented as the "real" Peter Parker.

The Clone Saga gave Peter his happy ending, they did'nt need to make Ben his clone, he could've been someone else who was bitten by a Spider, a victim of random circumstances, that Peter would make his apprentice and train, and then relinquish the batton too.
I believe you tremendously underestimate the appeal of Peter Parker.


And if not Ben, then why not someone else? Is it finally time to risk giving the coustume to someone else? We're preparing to embrace Bucky as Cap, but he's familiar. What about Kyle Rayner? Even Timm's Terry Mcguiness?

And with the Red Hulk spearheading Loeb's title...that's undeniable proof Marvel did'nt need to keep the same character around if all that is required is changing the face.
Do you honestly think that the Red Hulk is going to last for a significant period of time?

Granted, Kyle did'nt last, to many fans chagrin, but he lasted long enough to gain a fanbase and prove a generational heir can succeed in a role held by a "definitive version"

And let's not forget that Hal's turn to evil was considered as flawed as OMD. With the praise BND is getting is a parralel of Kyle's beggining as GL...you hated how we got here, but you like where we're at.

There are big differences between Peter Parker and Hal Jordan, just in terms of the quality of the characters.

So is it time we took a risk again? Embrace the ideas that Cap and Hulk are taking with Spidey? I say yes
Wasn't OMD enough of a risk for now?

One reason I find this debate interesting is that I believe erasing the marriage is best for Spider-Man's long-term success. I see the character's growth making the day someone else wears the Spider-Man costume inevitable, which is something I don't want to see, as I believe that Peter Parker is the best character in comics.

[spideymegaownage]

Fred Thompson should have nothing to do with this!


I believe you tremendously underestimate the appeal of Peter Parker.



Do you honestly think that the Red Hulk is going to last for a significant period of time?



There are big differences between Peter Parker and Hal Jordan, just in terms of the quality of the characters.


Wasn't OMD enough of a risk for now?

One reason I find this debate interesting is that I believe erasing the marriage is best for Spider-Man's long-term success. I see the character's growth making the day someone else wears the Spider-Man costume inevitable, which is something I don't want to see, as I believe that Peter Parker is the best character in comics.

whose the red hulk?

and anyway, Peter Parker should still stay Spidey. i like his hair ^^

[Noronha]

Brand New Day should have been all about a relaunching everyone could stomach...instead we got the final, definitive character-rape of an iconic figure who has been trerated with as much malice by his editors as Peter suffered at the hands of condescending Thompson-herded crowds.

And it was all because nobody knew what to do anymore with a Peter who had accomplished virtually everything sans the diaper-changing duties.

They had the solution during The Clone Saga, Ben Reily, but he became as much a victim of the unclear destination of the Saga and fan boycotting as Peter did. He was fine as Scarlet Spider, fans liked him as his own person, but he could'nt be presented as the "real" Peter Parker.

The Clone Saga gave Peter his happy ending, they did'nt need to make Ben his clone, he could've been someone else who was bitten by a Spider, a victim of random circumstances, that Peter would make his apprentice and train, and then relinquish the batton too.

And if not Ben, then why not someone else? Is it finally time to risk giving the coustume to someone else? We're preparing to embrace Bucky as Cap, but he's familiar. What about Kyle Rayner? Even Timm's Terry Mcguiness?

And with the Red Hulk spearheading Loeb's title...that's undeniable proof Marvel did'nt need to keep the same character around if all that is required is changing the face.

Granted, Kyle did'nt last, to many fans chagrin, but he lasted long enough to gain a fanbase and prove a generational heir can succeed in a role held by a "definitive version"

And let's not forget that Hal's turn to evil was considered as flawed as OMD. With the praise BND is getting is a parralel of Kyle's beggining as GL...you hated how we got here, but you like where we're at.

So is it time we took a risk again? Embrace the ideas that Cap and Hulk are taking with Spidey? I say yes

No because those characters are 1st Super-heroes and than Steve Rogers and Banner.
Their appeal is the alter ego their super-hero persone,people buy books to see Captain America and the Hulk,so it´s a lot more easier to change the character behind the mask.

Spider-Man it´s impossible,Peter Parker is the main reason we read the book,he´s 1st and foremost Peter Parker and after that he´s Spider-Man,an example?
In the Ultimate Clone Saga(arguably one of the best stories lately)Peter goes throught the entire arc witout putting his costume on.
So,no matter how bad spdier-man franchise is there is no way to change the fact that there can only be one character using the uniform-Peter Parker.

[ZT4]

They have'nt even tired yet, let them.

They'll get tons of publcity for a year before they retcon it anyway.

[ZT4]

Do you honestly think that the Red Hulk is going to last for a significant period of time?

Nope, which is of course the damming part of comics in general. No risk, no change.

There are big differences between Peter Parker and Hal Jordan

Hal murdered the corps, Peter and MJ murdered their daughter. What difference?

I believe you tremendously underestimate the appeal of Peter Parker

I beleive you tremendously underestimate the CHARACTER of Peter Parker, and the ability of fans to embrace someone new given the right writing.

One reason I find this debate interesting is that I believe erasing the marriage is best for Spider-Man's long-term success.

And previous track records have proven you wrong on multiple occasions, and will continue to do so. The marraige is'nt the problem, beleiving it's a problem is the problem.

[Noronha]

I think that no matter wahat the sales won´t go down.Reason?
No it´s not because Joe´s right and BND will be a samshing success,simply put the ones that still buy comics are the last stand.We´re the hard core fans we´re the ones that despite everything we continue to believe and enjoy comics.

So these 100.000/80.000 are the ones that won´t drop comics.
The Clone Saga saw a huge amount of people leaving because at that time we weren´t the only ones buying comics a lot bought them just to have a good read and weren´t as attached as we are to them,so when marvel did something they didn´t like they left.

Unless of course Marvel did something so awful that would make us run screaming,OMD is horrible but not enough to make the few people that buy comics nowadays leave in huge numbers.

[ZT4]

The Clone Saga sold once too.

[jackolover]

And as for lower-tier heroes, who could easily be replaced, there's always gonna be some nostalgic writer who wants to bring back the original model. Ben was doomed from the start, and any newcomer will ultimately meet the same fate.
SEAN


Yeah, but Ben could take the heat off Peter. Peter could fade away for long periods, while Ben, the other Spiderman, took on the street level thugs. Granted, BND has negated the option of a Ben Reilly, now, so there would have to be a bad reason for bringing back Ben. Pre-OMD would have been an ideal solution, (of bringing back Ben), to all Peters problems, just then.

[Alan2099]

Hal murdered the corps, Peter and MJ murdered their daughter. What difference?
Hal physically hands on, went to the various members and killed many of them, directly ending their lives, and indirectly killed the others.

Peter and MJ though their actions prevented one possible future from happening, which is what happens anytime you make any choice anyway. Mephisto just happened to be there to rub it in their faces because he's a jerk.

You could just as easily argue that Spider-man killed his and Gwen's son that we saw in that one Earth-X special, or that he killed Spider-girl by not getting his leg blown off while fighting Green Goblin at the end of the clone saga.

[Noronha]

The Clone Saga sold once too.

Until people realized what was the real intention behind it all.

[Mister Mets]

Nope, which is of course the damming part of comics in general. No risk, no change.See, I think it's a good thing that there won't be tremendous change. At least in franchises that have been around for generations. I have no objection to change in creator-owned series, but I don't think it should be forced on licensed characters.

Hal murdered the corps, Peter and MJ murdered their daughter. What difference? Massive differences. First, Peter Parker is simply a more popular character than Hal Jordan.

I beleive you tremendously underestimate the CHARACTER of Peter Parker, and the ability of fans to embrace someone new given the right writing. I love Peter's CHARACTER. It's why I don't believe he can be so easily replaced.

And previous track records have proven you wrong on multiple occasions, and will continue to do so. The marraige is'nt the problem, beleiving it's a problem is the problem.When have I been proven wrong?

They have'nt even tired yet, let them.

They'll get tons of publcity for a year before they retcon it anyway.It's a horrible idea because there's nothing to indicate that the alternative will be better.

The Clone Saga sold once too.
Not when Ben Reilly was Spider-Man.

[Mister Mets]

Hal physically hands on, went to the various members and killed many of them, directly ending their lives, and indirectly killed the others.

Peter and MJ though their actions prevented one possible future from happening, which is what happens anytime you make any choice anyway. Mephisto just happened to be there to rub it in their faces because he's a jerk.

You could just as easily argue that Spider-man killed his and Gwen's son that we saw in that one Earth-X special, or that he killed Spider-girl by not getting his leg blown off while fighting Green Goblin at the end of the clone saga. You could also argue that he killed several of his children by choosing to use contraception with Mary Jane.


Yeah, but Ben could take the heat off Peter. Peter could fade away for long periods, while Ben, the other Spiderman, took on the street level thugs. Granted, BND has negated the option of a Ben Reilly, now, so there would have to be a bad reason for bringing back Ben. Pre-OMD would have been an ideal solution, (of bringing back Ben), to all Peters problems, just then.Except Ben Reilly just wasn't as interesting a character as Peter Parker.

Until people realized what was the real intention behind it all.It flopped for a few other reasons too, including artificially high sales in the beginning of the clone saga.

[drwho]

I'd honestly rather read a new spider-man than peter now lol. Real sad. maybe Ben Reilly deserves a come back.

[Mister Mets]

I'd honestly rather read a new spider-man than peter now lol. Real sad. maybe Ben Reilly deserves a come back.Do you believe a significant percentage of comic book readers share your view?

Because otherwise your personal preference isn't that important.

[Radioactive Zombie]

Meh. There's always going to be people who'll cling to Peter.

As long as we get a character that's rather well thought-out, I'm fine. I'd still like our web-slinger, just a nerd with no gadgets.

[Spider-Sense]

No.Peter Parker is Spider-Man.

[ZT4]

Wally West IS Flash.

Oh snap.

Do you believe a significant percentage of comic book readers share your view?

That percentage are irritable sheep, the SLIGHTEST change and there pissed. I like almost all of the modern animation Cartoon Network has right now like Ben 10 and KND but you ask ANY person who watched CN in the 1990s, and they refuse to admit the channel is as good as it was then.

If the Public embraced things more readily, would you accept change in heroes for licensed characters?

[Sonicjuce]

Do you believe a significant percentage of comic book readers share your view?

Because otherwise your personal preference isn't that important.

That was a bit harsh. I don't think I've ever heard Cyberman be that harsh....

I don't think anyone could replace Peter. I think Noronha put it better then I can in his first post. I never minded Ben, but he was Peter in a weird way. I don't think they could come up with another character that good that we could become attached too.

[Mister Mets]

That percentage are irritable sheep, the SLIGHTEST change and there pissed. I like almost all of the modern animation Cartoon Network has right now like Ben 10 and KND but you ask ANY person who watched CN in the 1990s, and they refuse to admit the channel is as good as it was then.

If the Public embraced things more readily, would you accept change in heroes for licensed characters?I would accept change for heroes in licensed characters if I was convinced that they could be replaced by new characters who are as or more compelling and commercial. The public's embrace is only a small part of it (and that's because I want the Marvel Universe to continue.)


That was a bit harsh. I don't think I've ever heard Cyberman be that harsh....I didn't mean to be harsh, just correct.

I don't like it when fans use their own preferences as the reason Marvel should change its policies, when there are many other things to consider. As a random example, Jeph Loeb's not my favorite writer, but the man sells well, so it would be foolish of me to suggest that Marvel should not put him on high-profile books, just because I'd prefer another writer.

In this case, drwho's preference that Marvel replaces Peter Parker would be a really bad idea unless a significant percentage of comic book buyers agreed with him.

[ZT4]

I don't like it when people use their own preferences as the reason Marvel should change its policies

...And yet that's EXACTLY what Joe has done with his three genies...they were all HIS preferences, and he used them to change Marvel's policies

[Alan2099]

...And yet that's EXACTLY what Joe has done with his three genies...they were all HIS preferences, and he used them to change Marvel's policies
He's the editor in chief. His job involves steering the company to where he belives it will be the most successful. Sometimes other people will disagree with him. Sometimes he'll be wrong. He's human.

Question for you. Right now, if someone walked up to you and said you were the new marvel editor in chief, would you reverse the storyline?
If you're answer is no, then you have nothing to complain about.
If you're answer is yes, you're doing the same thing you're attacking Quesada for.

[Mister Mets]

...And yet that's EXACTLY what Joe has done with his three genies...they were all HIS preferences, and he used them to change Marvel's policiesI edited my comment to refer to fans, as opposed to the more inclusive "people" though I think the complaint is valid.

I am certain that Joe Quesada is doing what he believes to be best for the Spider-Man franchise (something JMS made clear in his infamous online posts about nearly taking his name off One More Day.) This isn't just a matter of his preference.

Sales will determine whether or not Quesada made the right call.

[Red Lotus]

I'd honestly rather read a new spider-man than peter now lol. Real sad. maybe Ben Reilly deserves a come back.

Do you believe a significant percentage of comic book readers share your view?

Because otherwise your personal preference isn't that important.

I think alot of long time fans would rather see some one else as Spider-man then trying to take one step forward with Peter by taking 5 steps back. This wasn't really about Peter/MJ. This was about making a Spider-man to bring in new readers.

I do understand the point in trying to bring in new readers, but you dont do this by alienating longtime readers.

[matthewaos]

If Ben returned...

Well, he is not Peter. But I could live in a world without Peter. Either way if Peter was to die, and he had a great death story I could accept it and never say bring him back. I loved Harry for what he was after spec #200 either way. Now what his death matter? Nothing. I could live in a world where Ben had his own book for all of us who like him and cannot admit it loudly. I would love a book with him and Kaine back, who cares about BND? It could be the best replacement book, after Spider-Girl!

So yeah, no worries here. I accept change, if I can understand the story. And I didn't have a problem with Ben as the original, though it was a little odd, but it made Peter a more tragic figure. Of course I'm not talking past the "Trial of Peter Parker". Maximum clonage was the worst story to follow up, ever!

[Trey]

I think that no matter wahat the sales won´t go down.Reason?
No it´s not because Joe´s right and BND will be a samshing success,simply put the ones that still buy comics are the last stand.We´re the hard core fans we´re the ones that despite everything we continue to believe and enjoy comics.

So these 100.000/80.000 are the ones that won´t drop comics.
The Clone Saga saw a huge amount of people leaving because at that time we weren´t the only ones buying comics a lot bought them just to have a good read and weren´t as attached as we are to them,so when marvel did something they didn´t like they left.

Unless of course Marvel did something so awful that would make us run screaming,OMD is horrible but not enough to make the few people that buy comics nowadays leave in huge numbers.

That is so true. What does everyone expect AMS to level off at in the next 3-4 months? 80,000 readers? more , less?

[pesmerga316]

I love Ben Reilly, I loved when he headed the spiderman title... I wanted him to be the clone though didn't like the "im the real one" aspect .... but I thought Ben was way more of a badass then Peter is..

[Noronha]

That is so true. What does everyone expect AMS to level off at in the next 3-4 months? 80,000 readers? more , less?

Well the circumstances are special,but i think since USM is around 70/80.000(up and down)ASM will be around 90.000 and will drop to 80.000/75.000 from time to time once BND stops being an event.

[Mister Mets]

Well the circumstances are special,but i think since USM is around 70/80.000(up and down)ASM will be around 90.000 and will drop to 80.000/75.000 from time to time once BND stops being an event.If that's true, BND will be considered a monumental success thanks to the increase in average Spider-Man sales. Hell, there was a time right before "The Other" when JMS's ASM was selling a little more than 70,000 copies. So if you have three Spider-Man books selling better....

[Noronha]

If that's true, BND will be considered a monumental success thanks to the increase in average Spider-Man sales. Hell, there was a time right before "The Other" when JMS's ASM was selling a little more than 70,000 copies. So if you have three Spider-Man books selling better....

I´ve probably miscalculated because the last 3 years have been event after even:
The Other-War at Home-BIB-OMD.
So my calculations are based on sales that were in the middle of highly publicized events.
Now after checking it out i completely overshot it.
So my new estimation is this year it´ll be around 75.000,but by next year i can see it drop to 60.000 then it´ll probably go up because of issue 600,after that well we´ll just have to wait and see what´s in store for that issue.

[ANewHope]

Here's the thing:

Looking back on Avengers Disassembled and the Civil War, I love the direction of where the Marvel Universe has headed due to these major events. (in regards to Cap America and Iron Man)

Looking back on House of M, Wanda saying "no more mutants" effected the X-men universe dramatically and has lead to the awesome storylines including the current Messiah CompleX.

Now with Spiderman, after the events of One More Day, it remains to be seen what stories will be created as a result of this massive change in direction.

The whole point of these Marvel Events is that we, as fans, were promised stories that would making a lasting impact on our characters that we know and love. Nothing is supposed to be done for shock value.

Instead we got a Mephisto magic recon that everyone is so upset about, it's like Spiderman never "UnMasked" during the Civil War.

All I can say is that whatever happens next better be the best spiderman that I have ever *&&*ing read.

And that remains to be seen, I'll give the creators another month to begin delivering the next chapter in Spiderman's life.

Although I love Dan Slott from his work in the Avengers Initative, his first 2 comics of Brand New Day were just ok for me. Just Ok. And I'm currently very disappointed. One more month and I'm gone.

When House of M took place, we received Decimation. When the Avengers Disassembled, we received New Avengers. With One More Day, we get Brand New Day that entirely ignores what happened in One More Day. No current resolution whatsoever.

[Berkey]

I'm not a fan of the way Marvel has gone lately, personally. The house of M was a big shock, but it made for a good series of Arcs and for the best. Cap dying I didn't like at all and we'll have to see what happens from here on out, not that having a icon die is unheard of, but for god's sake they could have at least had him go out fighting not shot crossbones from a block away or shot by his girl while bainwashed. If they get id of the Hulk and replace him with the Red hulk I can't see that being any diffrent from the original because it appears he may be just as if not more dangerous as Banner so unless they re-vamp him totally I think it'll either bomb of just break even. Spiderman, well all I can say is wow. After the clone saga and a decades worth of recovering from that they finally had that caracter in a good position from some great stories. It's only been a little over a year since he unmasked and besides a handfull of criminals taking advantage of that, Aunt May gets shot and they decide to rewrite/turn back time/alter reality and god knows what to the point where the fans of now and the ones who fiannly began to trust the title again, have no idea where Peter or let alone the rest of the Marvel reality/time continum stands and which events did or didn't happen and the personal growth of Parker over the years just earased just like that. Unless they fix what they did (which perhaps as what MJ whispered into Mephiesto's years, a trick perhaps I don't know) changing the character may just deter the fans of the past and the present away from the title. I don't know I'm just a little upset that some of my favorite characters have either been killed or had their lives altered (various mutants, Cap, Spiderman perhaps Hulk, abomination, Atlantis) It seems Marvel enjoys shocking audiences by killing everyone or destroying everything to a certain extent. I'm waiting for the next big event to just swallow up the universe and have it spit back out again with totaly diffrent origins and timelines.

Sorry just needed to vent a little Marvel has been making me mad as of late.

[StoneGold]

Cap dying I didn't like at all and we'll have to see what happens from here on out, not that having a icon die is unheard of, but for god's sake they could have at least had him go out fighting not shot crossbones from a block away.

You didn't actually read the book, did you? Just read reports and summaries, right?



He got shot by his brainwashed girlfriend while protecting people from the sniper shot by Crossbones, at point blank range. Brock just gave him a little flesh wound that he literally jumped into to protect everyone else. It was Sharon Carter who killed him. Well, apparently, but that's what we were shown in #25. It's only recently that we've been led to believe that the sequence of events might not be what Sharon remembered. And that was at least in part by a reader, significantly later, noticing the pistols Sharon had didn't match up.

[Berkey]

You didn't actually read the book, did you? Just read reports and summaries, right?



He got shot by his brainwashed girlfriend while protecting people from the sniper shot by Crossbones, at point blank range. Brock just gave him a little flesh wound that he literally jumped into to protect everyone else. It was Sharon Carter who killed him. Well, apparently, but that's what we were shown in #25. It's only recently that we've been led to believe that the sequence of events might not be what Sharon remembered. And that was at least in part by a reader, significantly later, noticing the pistols Sharon had didn't match up.

Yes I read it but I'm confused I mean I kow she apparetly shot him, but theres always twists now a days and I haven't read the title in a couple months, but even still the idea of being shot like that is still unsettling

[StoneGold]

Yes I read it but I'm confused I mean I kow she apparetly shot him, but theres always twists now a days and I haven't read the title in a couple months, but even still the idea of being shot like that is still unsettling

I'm wondering then, if you knew, why you brought up the red herring wrong answer?

[Berkey]

I'm wondering then, if you knew, why you brought up the red herring wrong answer?

yeah yeah my bad I was in a rant in the oven lab on campus here so it slipped my mind

[Mister Mets]

Here's the thing:

Looking back on Avengers Disassembled and the Civil War, I love the direction of where the Marvel Universe has headed due to these major events. (in regards to Cap America and Iron Man)

Looking back on House of M, Wanda saying "no more mutants" effected the X-men universe dramatically and has lead to the awesome storylines including the current Messiah CompleX.

Now with Spiderman, after the events of One More Day, it remains to be seen what stories will be created as a result of this massive change in direction.

The whole point of these Marvel Events is that we, as fans, were promised stories that would making a lasting impact on our characters that we know and love. Nothing is supposed to be done for shock value.

Instead we got a Mephisto magic recon that everyone is so upset about, it's like Spiderman never "UnMasked" during the Civil War.

All I can say is that whatever happens next better be the best spiderman that I have ever *&&*ing read.

And that remains to be seen, I'll give the creators another month to begin delivering the next chapter in Spiderman's life.

Although I love Dan Slott from his work in the Avengers Initative, his first 2 comics of Brand New Day were just ok for me. Just Ok. And I'm currently very disappointed. One more month and I'm gone.

When House of M took place, we received Decimation. When the Avengers Disassembled, we received New Avengers. With One More Day, we get Brand New Day that entirely ignores what happened in One More Day. No current resolution whatsoever.

In this case One More Day was the major event which Marvel hoped would affect the Spider-Man books for a long time.

Spider-Man Unmasked was a peripheral event in Civil War, which makes it more appropriate to undo (the equivalent of Red Skull's death in Captain America or Foggy's death in Daredevil.)

[ZT4]

But with Red Skull and Foggy, you know comic book deaths are neither permanent or progressive. You do know the Red Skull is up there with Jean Grey, Xavier, and Aunt May right? He's died a billion times.

The unmasking was progressive

[Alan2099]

But with Red Skull and Foggy, you know comic book deaths are neither permanent or progressive. You do know the Red Skull is up there with Jean Grey, Xavier, and Aunt May right? He's died a billion times.

The unmasking was progressive

So is wrecking my truck. It doesn't mean it's something that does anybody any good.

[ZT4]

So is wrecking my truck.

I'm sure I rewired the CCTV to mask that...darn loop duration...

Next time I'll just throw paint all over it.

[Dr. K]

If that's true, BND will be considered a monumental success thanks to the increase in average Spider-Man sales. Hell, there was a time right before "The Other" when JMS's ASM was selling a little more than 70,000 copies. So if you have three Spider-Man books selling better....

Let's say sales of BND fall and stay relatively stagnant at that 70,000-copies-sold level or thereabouts. In such a case, you still have more average Spider-Man sales than before, though sales of Amazing Spider-Man will have dropped on a per-issue basis.

This is not ANY kind of success for Brand New Day. This is a success of putting out the book three times a month. Which is really the tragic part of this situation. Sales can fall to below what they were before, per-issue, and Marvel can claim it's a "success" based on total average sales. In such a case, it would be clear that the popularity of the book had taken a hit and the readership was reponding negatively. But Marvel can just ignore that, because they're shipping more product per month.

Which is what I expect them to do at this point. Nevermind that Marvel could potentially be bringing in much higher sales three times a month if they had a story that didn't rip the fan base in half.

[Sonicjuce]

Which is what I expect them to do at this point. Nevermind that Marvel could potentially be bringing in much higher sales three times a month if they had a story that didn't rip the fan base in half.

See I don't really think this mess has ripped the fan base in half. I don't honestly think sales are going to be effected all that badly. I think there was equilly an amount of people who wanted the marragie to end as people who wanted it to last. Then there was people who just didn't care and would read the title none the less. Those people didn't leave and neither did the ones who wanted the marraige to end. Thus only like a third of it is torn away, and many of those people may still buy it to complete their collections. Then you take into account the people that see a good jumping on point, and bam your right back where you were if not more. Then add on those people are there three times a month and BND was a success beyond JQ and Marvels wildest dreams.

[Mister Mets]

Let's say sales of BND fall and stay relatively stagnant at that 70,000-copies-sold level or thereabouts. In such a case, you still have more average Spider-Man sales than before, though sales of Amazing Spider-Man will have dropped on a per-issue basis.

This is not ANY kind of success for Brand New Day. This is a success of putting out the book three times a month. Which is really the tragic part of this situation. Sales can fall to below what they were before, per-issue, and Marvel can claim it's a "success" based on total average sales. In such a case, it would be clear that the popularity of the book had taken a hit and the readership was reponding negatively. But Marvel can just ignore that, because they're shipping more product per month.

Which is what I expect them to do at this point. Nevermind that Marvel could potentially be bringing in much higher sales three times a month if they had a story that didn't rip the fan base in half.

Total sales of the Spider-Man titles will have risen, so it will still objectively be a modest success if ASM only sells 70,000 copies (though JMS's ASM sold near that at it's lowest point).

It's ridiculous to assume a book that comes out three times a month with multiple creative teams will sell as well as JMS's Amazing Spider-Man did when it was monthly with a single (and generally highly-respected) creative team. So the per-issue comparison would not be fair.

Though I honestly expect Marvel to launch an (almost) monthly Spider-Man title sometime soon (see my many posts calling for an Astonishing Spider-Man title.)

[Lemurion]

Personally, I disagree with Cyberman in thinking the erasure of the marriage will be good for Spider-Man/Peter Parker. I also think that the method chosen to do it was so full of holes that it will tarnish the new status quo for me and probably many other readers for quite some time.

Having said that, I agree that if in Joe Quesada's opinion it was the best way to move the franchise forwards and keep the character healthy it was not only his decision to make, but also his duty to make it. Part of being EIC is making decisions to best promote the MU as a whole. If Joe Quesada thought a never-married Spider-Man was the best direction for the character it was his duty to bring that about.

I don't think it is the best direction, but it's his call not mine.

Neither OMD nor BND has caused me to change my mind, but OMD will recede as just a terrible story from some time in the past and BND may well get better.

Only time will tell.

[Jadeskies]

I will note that spiderman 2099 is free and floating in a badly written MJ girlfriend paradise and ready for use. (Unfortunately he & Exiles got butchered by Clairmont.)

The only problem with this character is that he comes from a scientifically advanced 'future' (Even though early issues of Exiles states that they do not time travel, just events happen at a different time. - This rule was ignored later.) and you cant have a genius scientist running around in modern times without ruining his validity or changing his relevance in a world with aids & Cancer.

So besides having to deal with him and his future science knowledge he is completely useable, skilled and popular if your looking for an alternative to Ben Reilly and Peter Parker.

Unfortunately Marvel believes in dumb ideals like;
1. Children fear big numbers on the cover of comic books. (As opposed to the other big number on the cover, the cost. I use to collect soda cans to return them for 5 cents and buy my comics. They were $1 back then.)
2. Making status quo changing reveals (Unmasking) and almost instantly wiping them from existance (memphistawha?).
3. Bringing characters back from the dead with no real intentions to use the character in the immiediate future.
4. Making huge crossover storylines that end up being a let down with a fear to actually man up and let a crossover comic actually change things.
5. Erasing 20+ years of comics with no real conception of how that impacts thier fans and own characters.