Aint It Cool News Interview With Joe Quesada, Steve Wacker and Dan Slott

[Mister Mets]

The @$$Holes at Aint It Cool News did an interview with Joe Quesada (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35318) worth checking out for those of you who thought the Comic Book Resources interview was too soft.

Amongst the Questions.

Going forward with "Brand New Day", how will the writers be dealing with the fact that Peter and Mary Jane are now the kind of people who are willing to quite literally make a deal with the devil?

This is meant to compliment a previous interview with Dan Slott and Steve Wacker. (http://secure.aintitcool.com/node/35249)

[rZi]

FINALY, an interview who isn't afraid to ask tough questions. In all fairness i can respect why CBR don't flame Joe Q and what not....they are respected and simply would never get another interview from them again as it is very unprofessional.

[Dr. K]

Moving forward, I don’t think this will be an issue for the two characters as they remember nothing of the deal and we’re going to be spending more time looking forward than back.

I found this interesting. I haven't been reading BND, but I was under the impression that Mary Jane remembered everything? Is this a contradiction or just a carelessly phrased answer?

[Mister Mets]

I found this interesting. I haven't been reading BND, but I was under the impression that Mary Jane remembered everything? Is this a contradiction or just a carelessly phrased answer?

Mary Jane whispered something to Mephisto, which created a subtle change int their deal. There's a theory that she wanted to remember everything, but that has yet to be confirmed. So Quesada may have just debunked it.

[rZi]

I found this interesting. I haven't been reading BND, but I was under the impression that Mary Jane remembered everything? Is this a contradiction or just a carelessly phrased answer?

This hasn't been determinded yet. We don't know what she whispered to Mephisto, it's still under speculation.

[Blader5489]

I found this interesting. I haven't been reading BND, but I was under the impression that Mary Jane remembered everything? Is this a contradiction or just a carelessly phrased answer?

What MJ whispered to Mephisto is (according to Wacker) isn't going to be revealed for a long time. If MJ does remember everything, Quesada surely isn't going to spoil it now, when we're only two weeks in.

[Pinual]

Of course you do have to keep an eye on history, but you always do better with longstanding characters if you move forward rather than spending too much time looking back. I firmly believe that when the industry as a whole does too much looking back, it hurts itself. What ends up happening is that you spend way too much writing love letters to the creators who inspired you and not enough attention to the audience that wants stories that belong to them.

And yet we have gone ahead and reverted a character BACK to how he was 20 years ago. JQ is f'en crazy and this keeps getting worse. How many interviews do you have to do to explain a poor story and a poor direction?

[ZT4]

Sometimes that change can be a back to basics, but it’s change nevertheless. Back in the day, DC received tons of fan backlash over Crisis, but it rejuvenated the DCU and brought it back to a place where it was exciting for their readership.

Except DC did'nt forget what happened after "Crisis" and indeed, by looking back, they have propelled the "Crisis" events and the lingering plot details from it to create Superboy/Superman Prime and their present storylines in a forward-manner. Are the results mixed in quality? Yep, but at least there's good with the bad, and all it took was remembering the past and it's heritage.

I can assure you it’s going to remain in place for the long term.

Like the unmasking.

Really, this is all going to be retconned back once the media swallow the hook and get over it.

[Blader5489]

Like the unmasking.

Really, this is all going to be retconned back once the media swallow the hook and get over it.

Not anytime soon though. The BND team has already got ASM written through next year.

[superfriend]

that story with Mephisto he describes, i have to admit, is weird. if Mephisto shows up to Spider-Man and tells him that a stranger is going to be shot and Mephisto wants Spider-Man's marriage then it would be a really cool story about Spider-Man trying to track down who gets shot like that Johnny Depp movie Nick of Time or something--or he would usually fight Mephisto or something.

usually Joe is really good in these interviews. i agree with him but i thought that part was weird.

[matthewaos]

He just gives the same answers everywhere. Whoever knows how interviews usually are made should know that this was an interview that was sent to marvel via email and JQ, or someone from marvel answered with those fixed answers. This is how many interviews are taking place. Also, those answers are well organized by him, the marketing crew and whoever else. So yeah, they are made to make you say "yeah, he is right".

[ZT4]

Not anytime soon though. The BND team has already got ASM written through next year.

Which is as long-term as the unmasking was.

I know fully well they have their arcs all prepared until Issue 600, where something will be addressed, if not resolved.

[George Berryman]

I know fully well they have their arcs all prepared until Issue 600, where something will be addressed, if not resolved.

People might be placing too much hope on ASM #600 fixing anything. At this point it's just as likely that the issue will be a "Because you demanded it - Spidey Vs. Menace in a Final Showdown!!" issue or something as equally obvious. Hell, Quesada may even give in to desperation and bring Gwen back.

[DarKye]

Hell, Quesada may even give in to desperation and bring Gwen back.

Don't give him ideas!

Better yet, don't validate ideas he's already had!

<_<


Anyway, this is the second time I read Joe Q's argument about the random woman. It makes no sense. Peter would try to save her without negotiating with Mephisto, because he's a damn hero and that's what he does.

[matthewaos]

People might be placing too much hope on ASM #600 fixing anything. At this point it's just as likely that the issue will be a "Because you demanded it - Spidey Vs. Menace in a Final Showdown!!" issue or something as equally obvious. Hell, Quesada may even give in to desperation and bring Gwen back.

I think that people also hope that in cap #50 there will be a new cap, so the same goes here, and you are right, it will probably be nothing for all we know, like it was #500. I guess that marvel is playing the same trick: "let them hope, and they will be astonished by those really great stories so they will forget or not care anymore".

[Mister Mets]

He just gives the same answers everywhere. Whoever knows how interviews usually are made should know that this was an interview that was sent to marvel via email and JQ, or someone from marvel answered with those fixed answers. This is how many interviews are taking place. Also, those answers are well organized by him, the marketing crew and whoever else. So yeah, they are made to make you say "yeah, he is right".

Are you criticizing Quesada for trying to prove his point in interviews? Isn't the purpose of an interview to get the other guy to explain his point of view?

[Mister Mets]

Don't give him ideas!

Better yet, don't validate ideas he's already had!

<_<


Anyway, this is the second time I read Joe Q's argument about the random woman. It makes no sense. Peter would try to save her without negotiating with Mephisto, because he's a damn hero and that's what he does.
Peter tried to save Aunt May, but there were no other options available, until Mephisto came along. His only choices were allowing someone to die or negotiating with Mephisto.

[Mister Mets]

I think that people also hope that in cap #50 there will be a new cap, so the same goes here, and you are right, it will probably be nothing for all we know, like it was #500. I guess that marvel is playing the same trick: "let them hope, and they will be astonished by those really great stories so they will forget or not care anymore".

Is that a bad strategy for Marvel to have? Should fans be disappointed by "those really great stories"?

[matthewaos]

Is that a bad strategy for Marvel to have? Should fans be disappointed by "those really great stories"?

Non, I didn't say that, marvel is doing whatever is doing good, and JQ answering those questions the way he is answering is right in a way, it's just that I have given an interview or two and I can see some things that fans probably don't know, and I feel that it's a little insulting.

And I don't have a problem with cap, which is indeed a really good story. I don't want Steve back to be honest.

[CMBMOOL]

Peter tried to save Aunt May, but there were no other options available, until Mephisto came along. His only choices were allowing someone to die or negotiating with Mephisto.

He should have took the former option instead of the latter and acted like a REAL MAN/HERO. :evilangry

[matthewaos]

Where are those classic tales where the hero said no to the bad guy's offer and try to make everyone happy, or die trying?

[DarKye]

Peter tried to save Aunt May, but there were no other options available, until Mephisto came along. His only choices were allowing someone to die or negotiating with Mephisto.

Sure, but that's not what Joe Q said in this repeated example. He said it's either Mephisto's way or "nah, sorry, let her die" with Peter not even trying to do something else.

There's also the fact that we're supposed to believe Stark or SHIELD tech or Elixir wouldn't save her from a gunshot wound... But that's an entirely different animal.

[ZT4]

I guess I want Issue 600 to really signify a coming of age for the character, not just a tired time-travel story. Issue 400's "The Gift" remains an enduring classic that still stands tall amongst the Mackie plane crashes and even May's ressurection because it was Peter letting go, and being told point blank by May to do so

It's the only way I could swallow BND, it's all an anniversary build, a story that has a year to build and lead into bigger sales knowing what it will draw, old and new fans, uniting them, filling in the latter and rewarding the former for their paitence.

It's cold, cold marketing, but at the end everyone wins

[Mister Mets]

Sure, but that's not what Joe Q said in this repeated example. He said it's either Mephisto's way or "nah, sorry, let her die" with Peter not even trying to do something else.

There's also the fact that we're supposed to believe Stark or SHIELD tech or Elixir wouldn't save her from a gunshot wound... But that's an entirely different animal. Except in One More Day, Peter was unable to find any other solution.

Incidentally I guess we're supposed to infer from Spider-Man's conversation with Beast that there was nothing the X-Men (including Elixir) could do.



He should have took the former option instead of the latter and acted like a REAL MAN/HERO. :evilangrySo allowing someone to die when there's an alternative is what a hero would definitely do?

Note- I'm not saying that Spider-Man would have been unheroic for turning down Mephisto's offer, just that either option could be construed as heroic or something the character could do.

[Mister Mets]

I guess I want Issue 600 to really signify a coming of age for the character, not just a tired time-travel story. Issue 400's "The Gift" remains an enduring classic that still stands tall amongst the Mackie plane crashes and even May's ressurection because it was Peter letting go, and being told point blank by May to do so

It's the only way I could swallow BND, it's all an anniversary build, a story that has a year to build and lead into bigger sales knowing what it will draw, old and new fans, uniting them, filling in the latter and rewarding the former for their paitence.

It's cold, cold marketing, but at the end everyone winsI could see that being the case if Brand New Day's not a success.

But if the new books sell better, I don't think Marvel would have a legitimate reason to undo the new developments.

[superfriend]

I could see that being the case if Brand New Day's not a success.

But if the new books sell better, I don't think Marvel would have a legitimate reason to undo the new developments.

It's not always about sales.

the marriage and OMD weren't really products of needing sales to be better. Sometimes, changes are made because people in charge think something is good for a character.

[ZT4]

I could see that being the case if Brand New Day's not a success.

But if the new books sell better, I don't think Marvel would have a legitimate reason to undo the new developments.

There was a time even The Clone Saga sold like Gangbusters...boy, oh boy, did THAT change in a hurry...

[Noronha]

I could see that being the case if Brand New Day's not a success.

But if the new books sell better, I don't think Marvel would have a legitimate reason to undo the new developments.

The thing is no matter how much of a success BND is,sooner or later people will want answers,Joe can´t ignore them,he can sweep it under the rug for a while riding of the fresh new directon BND brought but down the line i honestly believe explanations will have to be given.

Because the stories and creative teams will not always be this strong(actually i don´t think that now they´re THAT strong except for Bachalo and Slott)and it will only be needed one slip or a less good story or a controversial one,because if even JMS,Bendis,PAD etc screw up from time to time you can´t think that guys like Wells,Gale etc won´t do the same,the difference?Well their walking on very thin ice,there is no margin for error.

Besides the shadow of OMD and all the unanswered question will always be hanging right above their heads.

So for the time being the questions can and will be ignored but further down the line that won´t be possible anymore.When i say "further down the line"i mean 3/4 years max.

[Alan2099]

You know, *crazy theory here*, it is awfully odd that nobody from Elixer to Dr. Strange could save Aunt May and that suddenly Mephisto comes out of nowhere and is able to save her. Is it possible that Mephisto was stacking the deck in his favor by excerting his influence into May's injuries somehow?

Probably not, but it's a nice idea to kick around.

[Mister Mets]

It's not always about sales.

the marriage and OMD weren't really products of needing sales to be better. Sometimes, changes are made because people in charge think something is good for a character.Usually they believe "something is good" corresponds with "sales will be higher." Which is often the case with Quesada's developments.

The thing is no matter how much of a success BND is,sooner or later people will want answers,Joe can´t ignore them,he can sweep it under the rug for a while riding of the fresh new directon BND brought but down the line i honestly believe explanations will have to be given.The longer Marvel waits, the less essential tying up OMD loose ends will be. Granted, there could be explanations in stories that won't change the status quo, but it's not essential.

Eventually some guy reading the comics now may become a Spider-Man writer and take it upon himself to tie up the loose ends, but unless that happens Marvel may decide that it's not worth it to revisit the pre OMD world.

At the moment, fans are clamoring for answers to OMD because there have only been three issues in the new status quo, which decreased the amount of ongoing plots and mysteries. Once there are more of those, there'll be less interest in OMD, as there will be more mysteries/ plots for fans to discuss. If Marvel plays their cards right, six months from now the debates will no longer be about OMD, but about new developments. Rather than a dozen threads about what Mary Jane whispered to Mephisto, we may have a dozen threads about Menace or Mister Negative's secret identity.

Because the stories and creative teams will not always be this strong(actually i don´t think that now they´re THAT strong except for Bachalo and Slott)and it will only be needed one slip or a less good story or a controversial one,because if even JMS,Bendis,PAD etc screw up from time to time you can´t think that guys like Wells,Gale etc won´t do the same,the difference?Well their walking on very thin ice,there is no margin for error.

Besides the shadow of OMD and all the unanswered question will always be hanging right above their heads.

So for the time being the questions can and will be ignored but further down the line that won´t be possible anymore.When i say "further down the line"i mean 3/4 years max.You overrate the significance of one or two bad stories. Although I don't think the current creative teams will try to tell the controversial types of stories JMS told, which decreases their chances of really pissing off readers. I also can't think of a case of internet fans being able to cancel a book (it's possible for them to save a book/ delay a cancellation, but they can't choose to doom it.)

[superfriend]

Usually they believe "something is good" corresponds with "sales will be higher." Which is often the case with Quesada's developments.

Are you saying you think OMD was done to bolster sales?

[Mister Mets]

You know, *crazy theory here*, it is awfully odd that nobody from Elixer to Dr. Strange could save Aunt May and that suddenly Mephisto comes out of nowhere and is able to save her. Is it possible that Mephisto was stacking the deck in his favor by excerting his influence into May's injuries somehow?

Probably not, but it's a nice idea to kick around.That could work. If they ever revisit the Mephisto story, it could make for an interesting tale.

Are you saying you think OMD was done to bolster sales?I'm saying that I doubt Joe Quesada did "Brand New Day" without expecting sales to improve.

OMD was just his way of getting there.

[superfriend]

I'm saying that I doubt Joe Quesada did "Brand New Day" without expecting sales to improve.

OMD was just his way of getting there.

Would you be surprised to find out that Joe actually thought sales might drop because of OMD?

[Phil Hunn]

Not anytime soon though. The BND team has already got ASM written through next year.

I'm sure Byrne & Mackie had arcs plotted far past the point at which they were unceremoniously canned, too.

Hell, Quesada may even give in to desperation and bring Gwen back.

Be thankful he got talked out of it the first time ;)

Peter tried to save Aunt May, but there were no other options available, until Mephisto came along. His only choices were allowing someone to die or negotiating with Mephisto.

Allowing someone to die who had stated that she was ready to do so.

So he sacrifices not only his own happiness, but that of MJ, and the life of his unborn child. All to save a decrepit old crone who was five minutes away from dying even before she got shot, because he can't handle the guilt. And because he apparently has such a massive Oedipus complex that he would choose living in Aunt May's basement, getting fed platefuls of wheatcakes for breakfast, over having sex with a hot redhead on a regular basis and being a dad.

That's not messed up to you? That doesn't portray Peter as an horrendously selfish individual?

[Jake V]

That's not messed up to you? That doesn't portray Peter as an horrendously selfish individual?

What was the first thing he did when he got his powers? Tried to make a buck off them.

What was the second thing he did? Let a burglar get away because he didn't see any personal benefit to stopping him.

Yeah, he's a pretty selfish guy.

[Noronha]

Usually they believe "something is good" corresponds with "sales will be higher." Which is often the case with Quesada's developments.

The longer Marvel waits, the less essential tying up OMD loose ends will be. Granted, there could be explanations in stories that won't change the status quo, but it's not essential.

Eventually some guy reading the comics now may become a Spider-Man writer and take it upon himself to tie up the loose ends, but unless that happens Marvel may decide that it's not worth it to revisit the pre OMD world.

At the moment, fans are clamoring for answers to OMD because there have only been three issues in the new status quo, which decreased the amount of ongoing plots and mysteries. Once there are more of those, there'll be less interest in OMD, as there will be more mysteries/ plots for fans to discuss. If Marvel plays their cards right, six months from now the debates will no longer be about OMD, but about new developments. Rather than a dozen threads about what Mary Jane whispered to Mephisto, we may have a dozen threads about Menace or Mister Negative's secret identity.

You overrate the significance of one or two bad stories. Although I don't think the current creative teams will try to tell the controversial types of stories JMS told, which decreases their chances of really pissing off readers. I also can't think of a case of internet fans being able to cancel a book (it's possible for them to save a book/ delay a cancellation, but they can't choose to doom it.)

Many have kept on buying to learn what changes/how/when?They are willing to give BND a chance and let them present their stories for the time being,establish their spidey once that effect is over they will want answers.
It´s impossible to ignore what´s been done.I mean Spider-Man hasn´t recovered from the clone saga so this story will not be forgotten that easily.
And i don´t believe that guys like Wells/Gale etc have the ability or the potential to make us forget it,they are average writters so to think that they will miraculously turn into Bendis Millar JMS is a little bit utopic.

1 or 2 bad stories usually doesn´t have any effect,but this isn´t a normal situation the groung in which BND is walking isn´t a very steady one.
The margin for error is minimum,stories that usually are just boring or suck will be seen as awful and everything will exaggerated tenfold.
And i´m not saying that fans will be pissed off by some event or particular story,they will just lose interest and leave,the sales will start to decline a little here and there not altogether

[Alan2099]

So he sacrifices not only his own happiness, but that of MJ, and the life of his unborn child. All to save a decrepit old crone who was five minutes away from dying even before she got shot, because he can't handle the guilt. And because he apparently has such a massive Oedipus complex that he would choose living in Aunt May's basement, getting fed platefuls of wheatcakes for breakfast, over having sex with a hot redhead on a regular basis and being a dad.

That's not messed up to you? That doesn't portray Peter as an horrendously selfish individual?
You're arguing that he's selfish because he sacrificed his happiness and having sex with a hot redhead to save somebody's life. Sometimes I even wonder if people stop and think about their arguments.

And don't even try to play the "he sacrificed his own daughter" bit. First, she didn't exist at all, so there's no way he could sacrifice her. Secondly, even if she had, he didn't know about it. Unless Spider-man moonlights as a Watcher on his spare time or has some of that old Captain Universe cosmic awareness left over that he's neglected to mention all these years, she played no part in his decision.

[Mister Mets]

Would you be surprised to find out that Joe actually thought sales might drop because of OMD?
I'd be surprised if Joe Quesada was certain that sales would drop because of OMD. I don't see an EIC making a decision if they didn't think it was for the best interests in terms of sales (or keeping a book going for a prolonged period of time.)

I'm sure Byrne & Mackie had arcs plotted far past the point at which they were unceremoniously canned, too. Probably not. Mackie had a notorious lack of long-term planning on his series.



Allowing someone to die who had stated that she was ready to do so.

So he sacrifices not only his own happiness, but that of MJ, and the life of his unborn child. All to save a decrepit old crone who was five minutes away from dying even before she got shot, because he can't handle the guilt. And because he apparently has such a massive Oedipus complex that he would choose living in Aunt May's basement, getting fed platefuls of wheatcakes for breakfast, over having sex with a hot redhead on a regular basis and being a dad.

That's not messed up to you? That doesn't portray Peter as an horrendously selfish individual?I honestly think this was a case where either decision (life or Aunt May's wishes) would have worked for Peter. The best analogy I can think of is a guy still being heroic for jumping into a burning building to save another, despite being told to save himself.

The unborn child example is shitpoor, because the child hadn't even been (presumably) conceived yet (and Peter didn't know he was giving up what would have been a great daughter.) By the same logic, he has given up the lives of multiple unborn children by using contraceptives with MJ.

Peter sacrificed his happiness to save another's life. He wouldn't be happier getting wheatcakes than having sex with a hotredhead. A "horrendously selfish individual" might have been the guy who would have chosen "having sex with a hot redhead on a regular basis and being a dad" over someone else's life.

[Mister Mets]

Many have kept on buying to learn what changes/how/when?They are willing to give BND a chance and let them present their stories for the time being,establish their spidey once that effect is over they will want answers.
It´s impossible to ignore what´s been done.I mean Spider-Man hasn´t recored from the clone saga this story will not be forgotten that easily.
And i don´t believe that guys like Wells/Gale etc have the ability or the potential to make us forget that are average writters so think that they will miraculously turn into Bendis Millar JMS is a little bit utopic.

1 or 2 bad stories usually doesn´t have any affect,but this isn´t a normal situation the groung in which BND is walking isn´t a very steady one.
The margin for error is minimum,stories that usually are just boring or suck will be seen as awful and everything will exaggerated tenfold.
And i´m not saying that fans will be pissed off by some event or particular story,they will just lose interest and leave no,the sales will star to decline a little here and there not altogetherI've tried to stop nitpicking grammar, but it is hard to read some of that. The segment I bolded seems to be missing a word.

It's a bit early to say how good Wells and Gale will be. Bob Gale did write one of the most popular movies ever. Zeb Wells has written some truly excellent Spider-Man stories.

I do agree with you that some fans will slowly stop reading, when they realize they're not getting any answers to OMD/ progress in the new status quo. I don't think they'll be a significant portion of the readership, especially when new stories/ mysteries/ subplots are established, some of which may be more compelling than the question of what Mary Jane whispered to Mephisto.

Plus, you neglect the possibility of new readers coming in, or enough of them to replace the pnes who stop buying the Spider-Man books.

[Noronha]

I've tried to stop nitpicking grammar, but it is hard to read some of that. The segment I bolded seems to be missing a word.


Sometimes i´m just to lazy to check for errors or just forget to type some words.
What i meant was:
"And i don´t believe that guys like Wells/Gale etc have the ability or the potential to make us forget it,they are average writters so to think that they will miraculously turn into Bendis Millar JMS is a little bit utopic."

[xarathos]

I read a little of this, but I don't believe anything Joe Quesada says about Spider-man anymore. The guy wasn't bright enough to even do a decent story with an unmasking. If you try to something big like that and can't do anything with it, not single SPider-man is going to help you.

[Rix]

What was the first thing he did when he got his powers? Tried to make a buck off them.

What was the second thing he did? Let a burglar get away because he didn't see any personal benefit to stopping him.

Yeah, he's a pretty selfish guy.

Um... yeah, but over the last 40 plus years (our time) and 12 or so of Pete's, he appeared to have grown and learned from his mistakes.

[rZi]

Um... yeah, but over the last 40 plus years (our time) and 12 or so of Pete's, he appeared to have grown and learned from his mistakes.

Exactly, he had grown alot since the 70's era in both maturity and character development. Only for them to undo it again, thanks joe.

[Brian M.]

Exactly, he had grown alot since the 70's era in both maturity and character development. Only for them to undo it again, thanks joe.

It was his Uncle Ben's death that set him along the path he's been on. He changed becuase of that his death. It is not illogical to think he would revert back to form under the same circumstances.

[Phil Hunn]

What was the first thing he did when he got his powers? Tried to make a buck off them.

What was the second thing he did? Let a burglar get away because he didn't see any personal benefit to stopping him.

Yeah, he's a pretty selfish guy.

After which he learned that that was totally the wrong thing to do, and spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it. Yeah, that's selfish...

You're arguing that he's selfish because he sacrificed his happiness and having sex with a hot redhead to save somebody's life.

Yes. He wants everything to stay as it's always been, so he makes a deal with the devil to make it so. And in doing so, he throws away the life that he'd actually built in order to hold onto a woman who was quite clearly on the outs anyway. He spurns what he has in order to have what HE wants, and nothing else. He ignores the fact that Aunt May had said she wanted to die, dragging her back from the brink because he can't cope. He throws away the happiness that clearly meant a lot to MJ (and the fact that she pushed him into it, just so JQ could make her look like a bitch is irrelevant).

And he sacrifices the life of his unborn child, all to save a woman who had quite clearly accepted that this was her time.

The life of his unborn child. A life that hadn't even begun, just to save a life that was almost over. He deprived another living being of her existence just so he could hold onto Aunt May's apron strings a little longer.

That selfish enough for you? That argument thought through enough for you?

This Peter Parker isn't even close to the one I'd been reading about for the past 20 years, and the sooner he's revealed to be a Skrull, the better.

[Spiffy]

This interview contains a REAL typical piece of what I'm now coming to call "stupid Joe logic".

Joe sez:
Also, in a lot of ways, this is no different than the fact that Peter allowed the robber to walk free only to find that that self same robber kills his Uncle Ben. Aunt May was shot because of his choosing to unmask in Civil War, wouldn’t one think that the memory of his making a mistake that led to the death of his dear uncle would be fresh in his mind?

Oh. Come. On. Joe.

Making a deal with the devil is the proper thing to do to avoid personal guilt? Is that your message?

Also, for Peter to blame himself to THAT extent, he has to ignore that fact that May willingly put herself in harm's way when she agreed with him about the unmasking. Sure, ultimately he'd still see the blame as his, but when you test the level of that guilt against a deal with the devil? And asks himself "what would May want me to do?"

Joe's "defenses" just keep making his case worse and worse.

[Mister Mets]

After which he learned that that was totally the wrong thing to do, and spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it. Yeah, that's selfish...



Yes. He wants everything to stay as it's always been, so he makes a deal with the devil to make it so. And in doing so, he throws away the life that he'd actually built in order to hold onto a woman who was quite clearly on the outs anyway. He spurns what he has in order to have what HE wants, and nothing else. He ignores the fact that Aunt May had said she wanted to die, dragging her back from the brink because he can't cope. He throws away the happiness that clearly meant a lot to MJ (and the fact that she pushed him into it, just so JQ could make her look like a bitch is irrelevant).

And he sacrifices the life of his unborn child, all to save a woman who had quite clearly accepted that this was her time.

The life of his unborn child. A life that hadn't even begun, just to save a life that was almost over. He deprived another living being of her existence just so he could hold onto Aunt May's apron strings a little longer.

That selfish enough for you? That argument thought through enough for you?

This Peter Parker isn't even close to the one I'd been reading about for the past 20 years, and the sooner he's revealed to be a Skrull, the better.Peter Parker deprived another human being of its existence every time he used contraception.

[Phil Hunn]

Joe's "defenses" just keep making his case worse and worse.

And despite the fact that acting as his own lawyer in this particular case is making him look bad, he's still going to win by a unanimous jury verdict, because he's got them all in his pocket, Kingpin-style.

[Leocomix]

How much would ypou be upset if it was revealed that the peter who had married MJ was the Skrull? (I think there is supposed to be one Skrull per marvel series, so anybody thought it might be Harry? Who else coudl it be?)

[Spiffy]

Here's a different kind of "stupid Joe logic"...

at one point Brian had written a scene in NEW AVENGERS dealing with the fact that the other Avengers suddenly didn’t know who Spidey was anymore, but the delays on “One More Day” caused us to scrap it.
Now I get that delays cause coordination problems. But this is another place where I part ways with Joe logic. To me, the need to explain this is SO pressing, that if OMD was delayed, it was probably necessary to delay New Avengers as well as a consequence. Yes, even with all the extra fan moaning. Because it's just nonsense to decide that New Avengers can go forward without dealing with it. Unless you LITERALLY cut Spider-Man out of several issues of the book and keep the rest of the cast busy enough that when you bring him back its credible they wouldn't have had his sudden Skrull-seeming-ness (I mean who's more suspicious that a guy who's face you've never seen, name you don't know, and who you have vague half-formed nonsensical memories surrounding) near the top of their list of concerns.

Yes, it can be managed. But its all SO inelegant. SO messy. For no damn good reason.

[Phil Hunn]

Peter Parker deprived another human being of its existence every time he used contraception.

Not the point. He'd seen this little girl. He'd talked to her. If you saw your future child, spoke to them, and then, five minutes later, decided "Pfft, they don't really need to be born - I don't need any kids. I'll bring back my grandmother instead. She needs a few more wheezy breaths of life far more than someone who's never had any life at all," how would that make you look? How do you think your grandmother would react?

Exactly. She'd smack you round the face and tell you not to be so freakin' stupid.

How much would ypou be upset if it was revealed that the peter who had married MJ was the Skrull?

See, Ben being the original never actually bothered me that much - I started picking up direct editons rather than reprints towards the end of the Clone Saga anyway, so it was a bit of a moot point - but at this point, with Peter being shown to be a selfish, apron-hugging momma's boy, I'd welcome a Spider-Skrull. At least he'd have some backbone.

Yes, it can be managed. But its all SO inelegant. SO messy. For no damn good reason.

And this is precisely why I'd have preferred, if they were going to press ahead with a deck-clearing reboot, that it be a total, sweeping line-wide one. At least then everybody would be on the same playing field.

This absurd cherry-picking routine they've got going makes no sense and creates more headaches than it solves.

[Mister Mets]

Not the point. He'd seen this little girl. He'd talked to her. If you saw your future child, spoke to them, and then, five minutes later, decided "Pfft, they don't really need to be born - I don't need any kids. I'll bring back my grandmother instead. She needs a few more wheezy breaths of life far more than someone who's never had any life at all," how would that make you look? How do you think your grandmother would react?

Exactly. She'd smack you round the face and tell you not to be so freakin' stupid.Except Peter didn't know that the little girl was his potential daughter until after he made the deal with Mephisto.

It was fairly obvious to the readers, but it wasn't something Peter considered.

See, Ben being the original never actually bothered me that much - I started picking up direct editons rather than reprints towards the end of the Clone Saga anyway, so it was a bit of a moot point - but at this point, with Peter being shown to be a selfish, apron-hugging momma's boy, I'd welcome a Spider-Skrull. At least he'd have some backbone.Perhaps Brand New Day will show a better stronger Peter Parker, and these discussions will be moot.

And this is precisely why I'd have preferred, if they were going to press ahead with a deck-clearing reboot, that it be a total, sweeping line-wide one. At least then everybody would be on the same playing field.

This absurd cherry-picking routine they've got going makes no sense and creates more headaches than it solves.What are the odds that a new Marvel Universe would be better than the old?

[Phil Hunn]

Except Peter didn't know that the little girl was his potential daughter until after he made the deal with Mephisto.

It was fairly obvious to the readers, but it wasn't something Peter considered.

Then OMD portrayed Peter as stupid, too. It just gets better and better.

Perhaps Brand New Day will show a better stronger Peter Parker, and these discussions will be moot.

Maybe they will. And doubtlessly Quesada will put this down to the fact that he has no ball and chain dragging him down...

What are the odds that a new Marvel Universe would be better than the old?

Given that the 616 Earth is now essentially a police state with a drunkard in charge of the superhuman law-enforcement and a superhuman gulag in the Negative Zone? Pretty good, I'd say.

[ZT4]

Perhaps Brand New Day will show a better stronger Peter Parker, and these discussions will be moot.

A better, stronger Peter was the married Peter, it's unfahtomable how you just can't admit that. If Joe had left the marraige alone (as he did for years after reuniting them), I don't think you would be taking his side on this issue, you'd assume the marraige was'nt a problem, which it is'nt, and that this is all due to one very simple, very easy observation: Abuse of editorial power.

[Alan2099]

A better, stronger Peter was the married Peter, it's unfahtomable how you just can't admit that.

"No it's not"

"yes it is"

"No it's not"

"Yes it is"

If Joe had left the marraige alone (as he did for years after reuniting them), I don't think you would be taking his side on this issue, you'd assume the marraige was'nt a problem, which it is'nt, and that this is all due to one very simple, very easy observation: Abuse of editorial power.
I've ben hoping they would get rid of MJ for years now. Long before I ever knew who Quesada was.

[ZT4]

"No it's not"

"yes it is"

"No it's not"

"Yes it is"

You can see the future!:eek:

..Future looks samey

I've ben hoping they would get rid of MJ for years now. Long before I ever knew who Quesada was.

Well you saw how long the Mackie effort to get rid of her lasted, and once again, you'll be dissapointed.

Let's face it, people like you only come out of the wormwood whenever this issue is brought up, when it's not an issue, you talk about Spidey the same way everyone else does.

[lazlo_toth]

Not to interrupt, but since this thread is in theory supposed to be about the AICN interviews and the comments therein, a few things occurred to me after I read them:

-The Slott/Wacker section was pure fluff. One question about OMD, one pat answer from Slott, and then it was "Boy, Mr. Negative sure looks cool!" Here's the thing: if you're going to do something that is going to have so many people up in arms the way OMD/BND has, you need to be prepared to answer a nauseating amount of hard question repeatedly, and be grilled on it. BND and the actual stories and direction are almost beside the point; the controversy behind the decision to go there and the volcanic reaction it generated is the story, and is going to be for awhile. If you're going to interview Quesada or Slott or Wacker, it doesn't matter how much they want to talk about the future; you made a decision that you KNEW was going to provoke a huge reaction, and you almost don't have the right to be annoyed at being asked to explain it multiple times. Letting Quesada get away with "everybody knows that Spider-Man works better if he's single" is ridiculous. That comment alone should have prompted four or five more questions, just as every one of his pat answers to why OMD was necessary should have been challenged. Challenged respectfully and professionally, but challenged. His spiel about constantly looking forward and not to the past need to be explained in light of the fact that he's talking about a move that has effectively undone many years' worth of change and put a character back to a position he was in 30 years ago. He also needs to clarify how exactly that comment meshes with previous remarks made a few weeks ago that suggested that change of that sort was actually something to be avoided.

Quesada, whether or not he ever intended to, has made himself a public figure in a way previous EIC's have not. And if you're going to be a public figure, you need to be prepared to get GRILLED by the media. It's great that this made it onto CNN, but it's also great that it was slow news day and they obviously didn't care very much about comics. Because if they did, and JQ tried to slough off hard questions or act annoyed by it the way he has with CBR, they'd CRUCIFY him. It's one thing when we slam him here, we're a bunch of geeks and half the time we don't know what the hell we're talking about anyway (well I do, at least...:D ). It is another thing entirely when the real media, who do it every day and usually handle people and events a hell of a lot more important than Spider-Man will ever be, smell a rat and start digging around. They'd dismember him with his own words. There's got to be a parallel universe somewhere where Chris Matthews is a big Spider-Man fan and just for the hell of it has JQ on Hardball. Just imagining him going to town on the "everything happened they just weren't married" line is bringing a smile to my face.


The point of all this is that this isn't going away. What I want to see is somebody brush off the "let's talk about the future" crap and force these guys to elaborate. We all know the stock answer to why OMD happened, and we all know there are a couple of legitimate counter-arguments to those explanations that nobody has challenged these guys with. I want to see somebody back these guys into a corner and make them answer these things, in depth, and quit letting them turn the interview into an infomercial for the new stories. If their cause is as just as they say it is, they should come through just fine. As it is, these interviews make them look shifty, it makes them look like they have no idea where it's all going to end up; they have no idea how Harry is alive, they just thought it was cool and everybody would just accept it. Even if they have this thing nailed down to the slightest detail, they end up looking like they threw this thing together half-ass and never bothered to think about the potential repercussions.

[Phil Hunn]

As it is, these interviews make them look shifty, it makes them look like they have no idea where it's all going to end up

Hey, at least it's truthful in that regard. The sheer fact that all their post-OMD publicity has effectively said "Don't worry about the past! Isn't this new present awesome? Isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it... oh, all right, we don't believe it either. Just read this and don't complain, okay?" tells me all I need to know...

[lazlo_toth]

Hey, at least it's truthful in that regard. The sheer fact that all their post-OMD publicity has effectively said "Don't worry about the past! Isn't this new present awesome? Isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it... oh, all right, we don't believe it either. Just read this and don't complain, okay?" tells me all I need to know...

Not really my point, but I agree with you. My point is that there is a legitimate debate on this subject that Quesada needs to be engaged in, that Steve Wacker needs to be engaged in, that they all need to be engaged in. By repeating the same stock answers and constantly trying to shift the focus onto BND and away from OMD and its uglier ramifications, they are not doing a very good job of presenting their case. Just taking the time to respond lucidly to the counter-points that have been presented will do an awful lot to making this mess go away, if that's what they really want.

Regardless of how I feel personally about OMD/BND, it looks to me as though Quesada and co. were a little bit shell-shocked by how strong the negative feedback turned out to be. They certainly don't look like they were prepared for it. And for the life of me I don't know how they could have possibly expected it would be otherwiae.

[Leocomix]

Fanning the flames here, but considering how ridiculous is the continual ranting all the OMD/BND complainers, one has to admit JQ was in the right in wanting to change the current readership.

[DaeJi]

Fanning the flames here, but considering how ridiculous is the continual ranting all the OMD/BND complainers, one has to admit JQ was in the right in wanting to change the current readership.

A fool's goal. The readership cannot be replaced so easily; it's possible (likely) that more people will stop reading ASM due to OMD/BND than start reading it. Also, what's wrong with people complaining about the storyline? I don't like when people praise it, but I understand their positions and don't fault them for it.

[Phil Hunn]

Regardless of how I feel personally about OMD/BND, it looks to me as though Quesada and co. were a little bit shell-shocked by how strong the negative feedback turned out to be. They certainly don't look like they were prepared for it. And for the life of me I don't know how they could have possibly expected it would be otherwise.

I agree - I listened to Joe's interview on the Howard Stern show, and he sounded so terribly flustered when Howard and his chums started throwing difficult questions at him, as if he hadn't expected people to actually question the genius of Spider-Man making a deal with the devil...

Fanning the flames here, but considering how ridiculous is the continual ranting all the OMD/BND complainers, one has to admit JQ was in the right in wanting to change the current readership.

Getting new readers is one thing. Essentially kicking the existing readership repeatedly in the nuts and telling them to bugger off in order to get those new readers is quite another.

As I've said before, if Joe were, say, in the restaurant business and, in the search for new trade, treated his existing customers the way he seems to want to treat long-term readers, he'd be broke and out of work within weeks. Now you tell me: is that good business practice?

[ZT4]

A fool's goal. The readership cannot be replaced so easily; it's possible (likely) that more people will stop reading ASM due to OMD/BND than start reading it. Also, what's wrong with people complaining about the storyline? I don't like when people praise it, but I understand their positions and don't fault them for it.

I've never had a problem with BND fans, they clearly are having a ball, but they seem HELL bent on baiting the pro-marraige fans with snide, cyncial sarcasm and goading. They come off as pricks more than we do. At least our anger is'nt directed at THEM unless THEY pick a fight.

The BND fans that respect us are ones we should respect, but the others? There just looking for fights or to puck up Joe's ass.

[Spiffy]

I've never had a problem with BND fans, they clearly are having a ball, but they seem HELL bent on baiting the pro-marraige fans with snide, cyncial sarcasm and goading. They come off as pricks more than we do. At least our anger is'nt directed at THEM unless THEY pick a fight.

The BND fans that respect us are ones we should respect, but the others? There just looking for fights or to puck up Joe's ass.
This is an insane division if this is how people see things. "Pro-BND" and "Pro-marriage"?

I liked the marriage and thought it silly to dissolve it. If that makes me Pro-Marriage then so be it. But my objection to what's been done has little to do with the marriage. It has to do with Marvel being so willing to throw out logic. No, even worse, to invite illogic. It's being treated like I'm stupid that's the problem. Having all of this "it all still happened but nobody remembers, but X, Y, and Z obviously COULDN'T have still happened, and if A, B, and C got forgotten then we have to explain it with logic so convoluted that writing it down would take more pages than War and Peace."

BND on its own merits is fine, in the sense that the writing from Slott is cool, the art is pretty good, etc. But having my face shoved in all of the other stuff first, and so insultingly, is coloring things.

Fie on fans fighting with each other. I won't lose sleep over their being no Spider-Marriage. I won't diss the new creative teams. But Joe Q. has shaken my faith in Marvel deeply, and its going to take a hell of a long time to recover. Comic books don't have to be perfect. They don't have to be high literature. They can invite large amounts of the unexplainable into themselves because of their very nature. But DELIBERATELY writing a story in such a way that it insults your fans? Uh uh. Marvel telling their fans to go @*&k themselves is bigger than we fans choosing if we are pro-Marriage or pro-BND or whatever.

[Mister Mets]

There was one interesting detail that hasn't been discussed, namely Quesada noting the circumstances under which the new Amazing Spider-Man schedule won't continue.

That’s a great question. This is a huge experiment for us, while big props go out to DC for their handling of 52 and Countdown, the way this is different is that those are finite stories whereas Amazing Spider-Man is not. Ultimately, this thrice-monthly experiment is really exciting from that standpoint, because we’re not entering this with a date in mind where we can stop and take a breather. In the end, we’ll have to wait and see what happens, it’s not just about sales, it’s also man hours and manpower and possible exhaustion that we’ll have to evaluate down the road.

As far as talent goes, I think that if we rotate our teams properly, we’ll be able to keep the freshness and excitement up. If we don’t then I can simply fire Editor Steve Wacker and pass the blame onto him ;-)

That said, even if we’re able to keep the creators from feeling overwhelmed, which currently seems to be going well, it’s our staff that will always feel the pressure because they’re not taking issues off, they have to keep on plugging away.

From what I've heard, the new Amazing Spider-Man format is a shitload of work for the writers (significantly more than if they just wrote nine issues an year of a monthly.) Though this could also be Quesada giving himself a PR "out" just in case it doesn't meet internal expectations.

[Mister Mets]

Not to interrupt, but since this thread is in theory supposed to be about the AICN interviews and the comments therein, a few things occurred to me after I read them:

-The Slott/Wacker section was pure fluff. One question about OMD, one pat answer from Slott, and then it was "Boy, Mr. Negative sure looks cool!" Here's the thing: if you're going to do something that is going to have so many people up in arms the way OMD/BND has, you need to be prepared to answer a nauseating amount of hard question repeatedly, and be grilled on it. BND and the actual stories and direction are almost beside the point; the controversy behind the decision to go there and the volcanic reaction it generated is the story, and is going to be for awhile. If you're going to interview Quesada or Slott or Wacker, it doesn't matter how much they want to talk about the future; you made a decision that you KNEW was going to provoke a huge reaction, and you almost don't have the right to be annoyed at being asked to explain it multiple times. Letting Quesada get away with "everybody knows that Spider-Man works better if he's single" is ridiculous. That comment alone should have prompted four or five more questions, just as every one of his pat answers to why OMD was necessary should have been challenged. Challenged respectfully and professionally, but challenged. His spiel about constantly looking forward and not to the past need to be explained in light of the fact that he's talking about a move that has effectively undone many years' worth of change and put a character back to a position he was in 30 years ago. He also needs to clarify how exactly that comment meshes with previous remarks made a few weeks ago that suggested that change of that sort was actually something to be avoided.

Quesada, whether or not he ever intended to, has made himself a public figure in a way previous EIC's have not. And if you're going to be a public figure, you need to be prepared to get GRILLED by the media. It's great that this made it onto CNN, but it's also great that it was slow news day and they obviously didn't care very much about comics. Because if they did, and JQ tried to slough off hard questions or act annoyed by it the way he has with CBR, they'd CRUCIFY him. It's one thing when we slam him here, we're a bunch of geeks and half the time we don't know what the hell we're talking about anyway (well I do, at least...:D ). It is another thing entirely when the real media, who do it every day and usually handle people and events a hell of a lot more important than Spider-Man will ever be, smell a rat and start digging around. They'd dismember him with his own words. There's got to be a parallel universe somewhere where Chris Matthews is a big Spider-Man fan and just for the hell of it has JQ on Hardball. Just imagining him going to town on the "everything happened they just weren't married" line is bringing a smile to my face.


The point of all this is that this isn't going away. What I want to see is somebody brush off the "let's talk about the future" crap and force these guys to elaborate. We all know the stock answer to why OMD happened, and we all know there are a couple of legitimate counter-arguments to those explanations that nobody has challenged these guys with. I want to see somebody back these guys into a corner and make them answer these things, in depth, and quit letting them turn the interview into an infomercial for the new stories. If their cause is as just as they say it is, they should come through just fine. As it is, these interviews make them look shifty, it makes them look like they have no idea where it's all going to end up; they have no idea how Harry is alive, they just thought it was cool and everybody would just accept it. Even if they have this thing nailed down to the slightest detail, they end up looking like they threw this thing together half-ass and never bothered to think about the potential repercussions.
Considering that Dan Slott didn't write One More Day and Steve Wacker didn't edit the storyline, the questions an interviewer could ask them about it would be fairly limited.

I can't remember a time when any Writer/ Director was under the level of media scrutiny you believe that Joe Quesada should face for One More Day. The only things that came close were Michael Moore for Fahrenheit 9/11 (a documentary intended to influence the 2004 presidential election) and Mel Gibson for Passion of the Christ (a movie some were concerned would spark antisemitism.) A flawed comic book story doesn't compare.

Getting new readers is one thing. Essentially kicking the existing readership repeatedly in the nuts and telling them to bugger off in order to get those new readers is quite another.

As I've said before, if Joe were, say, in the restaurant business and, in the search for new trade, treated his existing customers the way he seems to want to treat long-term readers, he'd be broke and out of work within weeks. Now you tell me: is that good business practice?
We'll see. BND seemed to sell well enough to merit a second printing, so things are looking good for Quesada's business acumen.

[Leocomix]

For the record. I was for the marriage to continue. I was okay with the way OMD undoes it (I feared worse). I am curious about BND. I am not taking a side but I am definitely against the side of those who don't understand that comics are entertainment and not to be taken seriously. I find completely immature the way some comic fans hold sacred comic book stories (and the talk about "making a deal with the devil" as if it has any serious meaning. To me it's as ridiculous as complaining that Lobo killed Santa Claus). A famous actor said to some of his too eager fans "Get a life" Maybe that's snubbing his customers but maybe it's also a moral responsibility to point out it's fiction.

[DaeJi]

We'll see. BND seemed to sell well enough to merit a second printing, so things are looking good for Quesada's business acumen.

Store orders. I expect BND to do very well at first. But as it goes on, I do expect to see sales take a turn for the worst, especially when the issues caused by OMD are brought up.

A famous actor said to some of his too eager fans "Get a life" Maybe that's snubbing his customers but maybe it's also a moral responsibility to point out it's fiction.

That same actor also apologized later for that remark, and realized than even though these characters are fictional, they have had a very real affect on a number of people.

[lazlo_toth]

Considering that Dan Slott didn't write One More Day and Steve Wacker didn't edit the storyline, the questions an interviewer could ask them about it would be fairly limited.

I can't remember a time when any Writer/ Director was under the level of media scrutiny you believe that Joe Quesada should face for One More Day. The only things that came close were Michael Moore for Fahrenheit 9/11 (a documentary intended to influence the 2004 presidential election) and Mel Gibson for Passion of the Christ (a movie some were concerned would spark antisemitism.) A flawed comic book story doesn't compare.


Slott and Wacker have both allowed themselves to be involved in this shit-storm, so they have to be willing to talk about it; they were also both on board and contributing to the new direction while OMD was still in production, and it's probably safe to assume they had some input into what went down (especially Wacker, who claims responsibility for nobody knowing who Spider-Man is).

As far as "media scrutiny" is concerned:
-I don't honestly believe JQ should go on Hardball. Tongue definitely in cheek.
-I just want to see an interview where he has to answer a number of tough questions, where he isn't allowed to just squirm away with the same pat responses. THAT kind of media scrutiny happens nearly every day on CNN, and it's nothing at all like what Moore or Gibson went through. You're right in saying that a "flawed comic book story" doesn't compare. If the continued controversy over OMD is the big story, then no matter how much JQ wants to move on and talk about how great BND is, a journalist who really wants the story is going to keep right on hammering away about OMD and making JQ clarify and elaborate on his statements. Damn near every writer/director who puts something controversial out has to sit through at least one interview like that. Anyone who courts the attention of the national media puts himself in a position where he may have to face that.

In Quesada's case, I'm not a proponent of the kind of intrusive, obsessive coverage that Michael Moore had to go through. I am a proponent of his sitting down for an interview that is an actual interview, and not an elaborate prepared statement/ advertisement. That would mean possibly having some of his assertions challenged, and being made to elaborate on previous statments that don't jibe with current statements.

[Phil Hunn]

A famous actor said to some of his too eager fans "Get a life" Maybe that's snubbing his customers but maybe it's also a moral responsibility to point out it's fiction.

Yes, it's fiction. It's also clumsy, badly-written fiction with a clear editorial mandate oozing noxiously from every pore.

[Leocomix]

Yes, it's fiction. It's also clumsy, badly-written fiction with a clear editorial mandate oozing noxiously from every pore.

What's your beef with editorial mandates? You think there were none before? Peter going to college, being in the middle of the Gwen-MJ duo, death of Gwen, getting married were all editorial mandates. Read independant or self-published titles if you want minimum or none editorial mandate. (I recommend Love and Rockets, Cerebus)

Opinions about fiction don't mean much. Back in 1973 readers thought the death of Gwen was bad fiction too, now it's sacred. So sacred there was all this incomprehensible outrage at Sins Past. See, I thought the 90s Spider-Man sucked and I stopped reading it. I was not outraged, I didn't have to cry my feelings over the roofs or to claim it was bad, clumsy, whatever.
In all honesty, the art of OMD is pretty good, the writing is pretty good, the plot is average. If you read it as a story conceived to undo the marriage (WHICH IT IS) it accomplished its purpose without aging the character.

[matthewaos]

Well, I wouldn't say that complaining about bad writing in a book you enjoy is silly, stupid or whatever. And people are attached to those things for a reason.

[carabas]

What's your beef with editorial mandates? You think there were none before? Peter going to college, being in the middle of the Gwen-MJ duo, death of GwenThese were all desicions made by Stan Lee, writer of the book at the time.

[Phil Hunn]

What's your beef with editorial mandates? You think there were none before?

No. I still feel angry at Bob Harras for ejecting Marrow & Maggott from the X-Books because "the X-Men can't have gross mutants!"

Editorial mandates crushed the life out of the X-Books during the 90s (especially Seagle & Kelly's runs, which were distressingly truncated thanks to the X-Editors' meddling), and they have destroyed the Scarlet Witch (who is, let's face it, little more than a plot device at this point) and have torn the guts out of the Spider-Books now.

Editors should not tell their writers what to write. Nor should they impose their apparent desire to "get back to the good old days" on the books, as Quesada seems keen to.

And regardless of whether OMD is "just" a way to get rid of the marriage, that doesn't make it GOOD.

These were all desicions made by Stan Lee, writer of the book at the time.

Didn't somebody else decide to kill Gwen?

[JCurwen]

Well, I wouldn't say that complaining about bad writing in a book you enjoy is silly, stupid or whatever. And people are attached to those things for a reason.
Some people are too attached.

[ZT4]

Didn't somebody else decide to kill Gwen?

Stan went on vacation, when he returned, she was dead.

Joke or not, I've always loved that explanation.

[rZi]

Stan went on vacation, when he returned, she was dead.

Joke or not, I've always loved that explanation.

Doesn't this make it seem asthough he disagree'd with killing her? Ive read numerous interview's where he has said they simply didn't have any direction to take the character in and thus was killed.

[ZT4]

Well he wanted Gwen to marry Peter, I don't know if he changed his mind in the last few months before the decision or not...

[Phil Hunn]

Some people are too attached.

Some people name their kids after the entire 1978 Liverpool FC squad and get tattoos of their favourite footballers on their backs.

What's your point?

Stan went on vacation, when he returned, she was dead.

Joke or not, I've always loved that explanation.

Yeah, that was the explanation I'd heard, too - that Stan was as surprised as anyone to find that Gwen was a little more than a limp meat-sack on his return.

[Spiffy]

Yes, it's fiction. It's also clumsy, badly-written fiction with a clear editorial mandate oozing noxiously from every pore.

The core of the thing not just that its badly written, but that its been badly written and then presented to us in such a manner that it pretty much deliberately thumb its nose at its core readership and insulted its intelligence. Disrespect of its fans is the main issue. Both in the writing AND how Joe Q has baited (and occasionally outright insulted) many previous fans. "Take it, bitch, and you'd damn well better like it" is not an attitude you can respect all that well.

[Leocomix]

The core of the thing not just that its badly written, but that its been badly written and then presented to us in such a manner that it pretty much deliberately thumb its nose at its core readership and insulted its intelligence. Disrespect of its fans is the main issue. Both in the writing AND how Joe Q has baited (and occasionally outright insulted) many previous fans. "Take it, bitch, and you'd damn well better like it" is not an attitude you can respect all that well.

You're accusing him of thing he didn't do while doing yourself what you accuse him of doing.

[Superbeast]

I take it you missed the "The first page is a slap of reality for old fans" line Quesada used in an interview. After all, in reality we all save our loved ones by making deals with demons to sell off our marriages and erase them from existence, with the additional bonuses of resurrecting another dead friend/enemy and losing everything we'd worked for such as our own apartments.

[Mister Mets]

Slott and Wacker have both allowed themselves to be involved in this shit-storm, so they have to be willing to talk about it; they were also both on board and contributing to the new direction while OMD was still in production, and it's probably safe to assume they had some input into what went down (especially Wacker, who claims responsibility for nobody knowing who Spider-Man is).

As far as "media scrutiny" is concerned:
-I don't honestly believe JQ should go on Hardball. Tongue definitely in cheek.
-I just want to see an interview where he has to answer a number of tough questions, where he isn't allowed to just squirm away with the same pat responses. THAT kind of media scrutiny happens nearly every day on CNN, and it's nothing at all like what Moore or Gibson went through. You're right in saying that a "flawed comic book story" doesn't compare. If the continued controversy over OMD is the big story, then no matter how much JQ wants to move on and talk about how great BND is, a journalist who really wants the story is going to keep right on hammering away about OMD and making JQ clarify and elaborate on his statements. Damn near every writer/director who puts something controversial out has to sit through at least one interview like that. Anyone who courts the attention of the national media puts himself in a position where he may have to face that.

In Quesada's case, I'm not a proponent of the kind of intrusive, obsessive coverage that Michael Moore had to go through. I am a proponent of his sitting down for an interview that is an actual interview, and not an elaborate prepared statement/ advertisement. That would mean possibly having some of his assertions challenged, and being made to elaborate on previous statments that don't jibe with current statements.
Slott's input to OMD was limited to two actions.
1) When asked, he told Quesada that Lily and Carlie could fit a scene in the final pages.
2) When asked, he told Quesada that he didn't want to bring back Gwen (pretty much everyone at Marvel disliked the idea, though Quesada was hoping that the writers would change their mind.)

I'm honestly not familiar with works of fiction receiving media scrutiny, unless there are religious questions involved or a serious social issue is explored.

It would be nice to have Quesada do an in-depth interview about OMD with someone who can challenge him on previous statements, but I don't think there are many incentives for him to do this. And I can understand why an interviewer would ask him about the upcoming Spider-Man books (and other Marvel projects) rather than a four part storyline (I also wouldn't be surprised if a condition of the interviews was that much of the discussion would focus on upcoming storylines.)

What specific assertions of Quesada's would you like challenged?

I take it you missed the "The first page is a slap of reality for old fans" line Quesada used in an interview. After all, in reality we all save our loved ones by making deals with demons to sell off our marriages and erase them from existence, with the additional bonuses of resurrecting another dead friend/enemy and losing everything we'd worked for such as our own apartments."Reality" references the idea that the Spider-Man books now feature a Peter Parker who can sometimes make out with strange women.

[ZT4]

"Reality" is often a little more well illustrated.

[matthewaos]

Slott's input to OMD was limited to two actions.
1) When asked, he told Quesada that Lily and Carlie could fit a scene in the final pages.
2) When asked, he told Quesada that he didn't want to bring back Gwen (pretty much everyone at Marvel disliked the idea, though Quesada was hoping that the writers would change their mind.)

I'm honestly not familiar with works of fiction receiving media scrutiny, unless there are religious questions involved or a serious social issue is explored.

It would be nice to have Quesada do an in-depth interview about OMD with someone who can challenge him on previous statements, but I don't think there are many incentives for him to do this. And I can understand why an interviewer would ask him about the upcoming Spider-Man books (and other Marvel projects) rather than a four part storyline (I also wouldn't be surprised if a condition of the interviews was that much of the discussion would focus on upcoming storylines.)

What specific assertions of Quesada's would you like challenged?

"Reality" references the idea that the Spider-Man books now feature a Peter Parker who can sometimes make out with strange women.

To be honest, there are really three or five questions that need answers, I mean without entering the whole "what exactly changed?" thing. The fact that we don't see hard questions answered says much.

[matthewaos]

Slott's input to OMD was limited to two actions.
1) When asked, he told Quesada that Lily and Carlie could fit a scene in the final pages.
2) When asked, he told Quesada that he didn't want to bring back Gwen (pretty much everyone at Marvel disliked the idea, though Quesada was hoping that the writers would change their mind.)

I'm honestly not familiar with works of fiction receiving media scrutiny, unless there are religious questions involved or a serious social issue is explored.

It would be nice to have Quesada do an in-depth interview about OMD with someone who can challenge him on previous statements, but I don't think there are many incentives for him to do this. And I can understand why an interviewer would ask him about the upcoming Spider-Man books (and other Marvel projects) rather than a four part storyline (I also wouldn't be surprised if a condition of the interviews was that much of the discussion would focus on upcoming storylines.)

What specific assertions of Quesada's would you like challenged?

"Reality" references the idea that the Spider-Man books now feature a Peter Parker who can sometimes make out with strange women.

To be honest, there are really three or five questions that need answers, I mean without entering the whole "what exactly changed?" thing. The fact that we don't see hard questions answered says much.

[rZi]

It would be nice to have Quesada do an in-depth interview about OMD with someone who can challenge him on previous statements, but I don't think there are many incentives for him to do this. And I can understand why an interviewer would ask him about the upcoming Spider-Man books (and other Marvel projects) rather than a four part storyline (I also wouldn't be surprised if a condition of the interviews was that much of the discussion would focus on upcoming storylines.).

I too have been wanting this, someone who isn't afraid to ask the tough questions but not nessecarily be rude.

Every single interview has been lapping it up when they blatantly dislike it, it's false to say the least.

If it was my interview i would say "Joe i dislike the concept and execution of OMD, but this is your chance to convince both me and the rest of the fans with your words and motivation behind it"

[Mister Mets]

I too have been wanting this, someone who isn't afraid to ask the tough questions but not nessecarily be rude.

Every single interview has been lapping it up when they blatantly dislike it, it's false to say the least.

If it was my interview i would say "Joe i dislike the concept and execution of OMD, but this is your chance to convince both me and the rest of the fans with your words and motivation behind it"I thought it was standard operating procedure to keep personal opinions out of the questions. The interview shouldn't be about the questioner. Doing otherwise just makes it seem unprofessional (granted, we are talking about a group of people called the @$$holes.

To be honest, there are really three or five questions that need answers, I mean without entering the whole "what exactly changed?" thing. The fact that we don't see hard questions answered says much.What are the 3-5 questions that haven't been addressed that you feel are essential for Quesada to answer?

[matthewaos]

Yup. Because I mean about questions like "please explain how every story counts, nothing changed, just everyone doesn't remembers it, when Harry is back, and baby May never came to be?" Anyway, I think all the things we are complaining about can be summed up in three or four strong questions, I haven't work any questions for interviews at the moment though. An interesting question it would be What JQ will do if BND is not a success? Will he continue as planned, because it's for some reason for the greater good, or they have a back up plan or something? I would also like to answer to me why we had all those fake promises that the unmasking is permanent and will be explored, whereas he admitted that they had their plan for it so that's why they did it. In a way, wasn't it just a gimmick for more publicity?

[Alan2099]

From what I gather, JMS told Quesada that he was ready to leave, and Quesada asked him whether he wanted to do that revamp storylien they discussed.

It's possible that I'm misinterpreating things, but what i gather from that is this;
*despite the contract, they didn't really know how long JMS was going to stay on the book.
*the unmasking, Spider-totem, and all that would have stayed as long as JMS did
*Quesada wasn't entirely sure if they were going to revamp Spidey at that time. (Maybe he would have gotten somebody else to do it, maybe it would have gone back into the pile of ideas that still need work)

So, when they said they weren't going to do any of this, they were more like they were sure if they were going to undo any of this, which sounds a lot more wishy-washy when you tell people, rather than coming out and saying something you're positive of, even if you do change your mind.

[matthewaos]

*the unmasking, Spider-totem, and all that would have stayed as long as JMS did

Well this seems to me also and I hate it that it happens lately. Like everything you buy does not really matter.

[rZi]

From what I gather, JMS told Quesada that he was ready to leave, and Quesada asked him whether he wanted to do that revamp storylien they discussed.

It's possible that I'm misinterpreating things, but what i gather from that is this;
*despite the contract, they didn't really know how long JMS was going to stay on the book.
*the unmasking, Spider-totem, and all that would have stayed as long as JMS did
*Quesada wasn't entirely sure if they were going to revamp Spidey at that time. (Maybe he would have gotten somebody else to do it, maybe it would have gone back into the pile of ideas that still need work)

So, when they said they weren't going to do any of this, they were more like they were sure if they were going to undo any of this, which sounds a lot more wishy-washy when you tell people, rather than coming out and saying something you're positive of, even if you do change your mind.

This is a similar conclusion i came too. I kinda wish JMS hadn't left now...it would of atleast prolonged OMD.

The worst part about OMD is i was really "omg whats gonna happen next" with spider-man.

He was unmasked

He was on the run from the SHRA

He had no-one to turn too.

That to me had sooooooo much potential...thats what hurts most about OMD, i simply wont ever get to see these unmasked stories.

[lazlo_toth]

It would be nice to have Quesada do an in-depth interview about OMD with someone who can challenge him on previous statements, but I don't think there are many incentives for him to do this. And I can understand why an interviewer would ask him about the upcoming Spider-Man books (and other Marvel projects) rather than a four part storyline (I also wouldn't be surprised if a condition of the interviews was that much of the discussion would focus on upcoming storylines.)

What specific assertions of Quesada's would you like challenged?


Well, being put on the spot is never fun, so I can't disagree that JQ would have a strong disinclination to let himself really get grilled. My point has more to do with the notion that being in the position he is in, and having done what he's done, it shouldn't matter whether or not he wants to. I firmly believe that the huge ruckus OMD stirred up is still a bigger story than BND is; I'm not sure you can really separate the two. I don't think it's reasonable for JQ to make NOT talking about OMD a condition for doing an interview as that is sort of disingenuous on his part, especially when his answers to those question are variations of "read and find out." If he really gets it in his head that a lot of people are upset by this, and he really did know that would happen, I find it a bit tacky on his part to be so evasive and unwilling to be questioned in depth about something that he feels is so inarguably the "right" thing to do. At this point, anything remotely resembling an actual debate would be more welcome than the simple re-iteration of "You can tell more stories..." and "Spidey works better as a single guy..." Is he afraid that he might actually lose such a debate? I doubt it, which makes the increasing crankiness I perceive from the entire Spider-staff concerning the refusal on the part of the OMD controversy to just go away and let them tell their new stories sort of puzzling. There's a very simple solution; engage in the debate, their refusal to do so may actually be helping to keep the fire burning. If and when the ruckus dies down on its own, then you can reasonably say that it's time to stop flogging the horse. But I don't think we're at that point.

As far as what I'd like challenged...where to start? I think I've made it clear that I disagree with the very premises he bases his arguments on, let alone the conclusions. I guess I'd focus on the incongruity between certain statements he's made, for starters. At different times the last two weeks, he's said that characters should be kept from changing, and then said that fans need to accept change, and there's definitely a disconnect there somewhere. I would ask him how the failure of previous attempts to undo the marriage do not in fact suggest that further attempts to do so should be avoided. And I would certainly make him elaborate on the "everything happened except Peter and MJ weren't married." I would certainly give him every opportunity to disabuse fans of the impression that he and whoever else contributed to this didn't think through the potential continuity snarls this brings about as rigorously as they maybe should have. I think those are fair questions.

[Mister Mets]

Well, being put on the spot is never fun, so I can't disagree that JQ would have a strong disinclination to let himself really get grilled. My point has more to do with the notion that being in the position he is in, and having done what he's done, it shouldn't matter whether or not he wants to. I firmly believe that the huge ruckus OMD stirred up is still a bigger story than BND is; I'm not sure you can really separate the two. I don't think it's reasonable for JQ to make NOT talking about OMD a condition for doing an interview as that is sort of disingenuous on his part, especially when his answers to those question are variations of "read and find out." If he really gets it in his head that a lot of people are upset by this, and he really did know that would happen, I find it a bit tacky on his part to be so evasive and unwilling to be questioned in depth about something that he feels is so inarguably the "right" thing to do. At this point, anything remotely resembling an actual debate would be more welcome than the simple re-iteration of "You can tell more stories..." and "Spidey works better as a single guy..." Is he afraid that he might actually lose such a debate? I doubt it, which makes the increasing crankiness I perceive from the entire Spider-staff concerning the refusal on the part of the OMD controversy to just go away and let them tell their new stories sort of puzzling. There's a very simple solution; engage in the debate, their refusal to do so may actually be helping to keep the fire burning. If and when the ruckus dies down on its own, then you can reasonably say that it's time to stop flogging the horse. But I don't think we're at that point.

As far as what I'd like challenged...where to start? I think I've made it clear that I disagree with the very premises he bases his arguments on, let alone the conclusions. I guess I'd focus on the incongruity between certain statements he's made, for starters. At different times the last two weeks, he's said that characters should be kept from changing, and then said that fans need to accept change, and there's definitely a disconnect there somewhere. I would ask him how the failure of previous attempts to undo the marriage do not in fact suggest that further attempts to do so should be avoided. And I would certainly make him elaborate on the "everything happened except Peter and MJ weren't married." I would certainly give him every opportunity to disabuse fans of the impression that he and whoever else contributed to this didn't think through the potential continuity snarls this brings about as rigorously as they maybe should have. I think those are fair questions.A debate on whether One More Day was a good move for the Spider-Man comics is different from an interview. It's something that could actually be interesting. Let's say at a comic convention, Joe Quesada gets on a podium and defends One More Day. The other guy (perhaps a columnist for some comics related magazine) attacks it and Joe Quesada's reasons for doing it. It could last ninety minutes, with a moderator asking the two men questions and keeping the replies on-topic. Granted, at the end of it, I'm sure some fans still wouldn't be satisfied, writing posts on message boards such as "The other guy never asked why Quesada hated women!" or "The other guy never pointed out Peter murdered his unborn child!" This is something that would still demonstrate that Quesada really did weigh the pros and cons of every decision he made.

I could understand why someone would as a condition for an interview want to talk about the item they're promoting.

The problems with the Clone Saga and the period when Mary Jane was believed to be dead have little to do with fans preferring a married Peter Parker.

[DaeJi]

Joe has already defended his position on OMD. He would get slaughtered in a real debate.

[Phil Hunn]

2) When asked, he told Quesada that he didn't want to bring back Gwen (pretty much everyone at Marvel disliked the idea, though Quesada was hoping that the writers would change their mind.)

Oh, for the love of... this one sentence right here illustrates exactly what's wrong with Quesada right now.

"Reality" references the idea that the Spider-Man books now feature a Peter Parker who can sometimes make out with strange women.

Yeah, because Peter's always been one to jam his tongue down the throat of a woman he doesn't know...

Joe has already defended his position on OMD. He would get slaughtered in a real debate.

He's defended his position several times, each time getting just that little bit more defensive. It's quite fun to watch, actually..

[ZT4]

I would'nt have responded at all. He had the right idea commisioning a year of BND storylines immediatly and working the teams hard to get them ready, if he had'nt opened his mouth they'd probably be getting trampled less under all the sqaubbles. They'd have been allowed to tell their story