Jeph Loeb talks "Ultimates" #3.2, Previews Exclusive Pages

[andy khouri]

"Ultimates" #3.2 blasts into stores next week, and CBR News has a new interview with writer Jeph Loeb plus exclusive preview pages from the new issue.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12768

[Joe Franklin]

Joe Mad is the best action scene comic book artist of all time. Nobody has ever portrayed action in movement better then the Mad man has in comic books over the years.:cool:

[BulletSpeed]

So true, Joe Mad is damn near without equal.

[Slyfer]

Joe Mad style is great and all but this action sequence seem to be out of sync . Jeph Leob surprisingly wrote a hilarious spidey, still he messed up HawkEyes behaviour , he doesn't speak like a man who takes is job seriouusly like a marksman should

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/ultimates3/02/preview/Pages-from-ULTMTSV3002_int-4.jpg

[rwsmith]

Looks good! Can't wait for Wolverine to show up, though.

[BulletSpeed]

Yeah, I wanna see what role Wolvie has to play in this whole thing.

[Xplicit Content]

Next week can't get here soon enough.

[masonreloaded]

Gotta love the subtle way Loeb hints at Hawkeye's behaviour possibly being an act by having Hawkeye explain to Spider-Man that his behaviour might possibly be an act.

/just ragging, doesnt look too bad, but wont be reading it - just got done reading my Ultimates 2 HC and (to paraphrase Loeb from his Word Balloon interview) the Millar/Hitch team made the book for me, not the concept of the book.

[togeteiku42]

Joe Mad style is great and all but this action sequence seem to be out of sync . Jeph Leob surprisingly wrote a hilarious spidey, still he messed up HawkEyes behaviour , he doesn't speak like a man who takes is job seriouusly like a marksman should

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/ultimates3/02/preview/Pages-from-ULTMTSV3002_int-4.jpg

So, if Spider-man is up above Hawkeye, then who exactly is he shooting at.

Besides that it looks good.

[FIG]

I am a huge Joe MAD fan. Massive even. I love everything he draws and that is the case here. I'll go further and say that the drawing here is beautiful and demonstrates just how much Joe has come artistically but the writing is bad. Really Bad. Not only is it horrible the way Hawkeye and all the other characters in the first issue act out of character but the new version of The Ultimates doesn't read like old The Ultimates. Its like an entirely new comic in a bad way. Its become a shadow of its former self. Its transformed from a realistic take on The Avengers to a cartoon Avengers with shallow characterization and pedestrian dialouge. Gone is all the hard work Mark Millar put into developing each character and in its place is dialouge commonly compared on MTV or any other poorly written drivel one can see by turning on tv. I understand you are trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator aka widest possible audience but come on! I know Marvel is all about sales figures but why did such a great comic have to suffer for it when the sales where high? Why completely shit on your previous audience? Why not just make something completely different? Can you tell I don't like the writing yet? Yes, I will say what many people here are thinking. This new version of The Ultimates sucks bad. You've ruined my favorite comic Jeph Loeb and Marvel. It took you to undo in one lousy issue what Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch worked so hard on for years and through 25 issues. Congratulations on your arrogant effort.

[ThePhenom]

Wow, you captured exactly what I was thinking as I read that, down to the comment about "shallow characterization and pedestrian dialouge" and targeting the LCD. Exactly.

Here's hoping that there is some sort of redeeming quality in the rest of the series or even issue, somewhere, somehow.

[carabas]

Joe Mad is the best action scene comic book artist of all time. Nobody has ever portrayed action in movement better then the Mad man has in comic books over the years.And yet he is totally unable to portray something simple like Venom taking away Valkyrie's sword. Or distinguish between caucasian and asian women. Or even keep how a gun looks consistant from panel to panel.
He's a Rob Liefeld who took a few art lessons, nothing more.

[carabas]

As for writing...
"Every time I hear a gunshot it takes me right back to when my family..."

So don't shoot guns so much and go back to bow and arrows, you utter psycho moron.

[whassup_bun]

Anybody thinks there are way too much onomatopoeia on all those pages? Blam blam blam thwp thwp thwp. Although I'm pretty sure it won't be as good as Vol.1 Vol.2, I'll still be getting the oversize HC when it comes out, those sound effects are going to be very distracting on a big page and takes a lot away from the art.

[Slyfer]

Oh could I forgot the coorny dialogue by that Police officer


"Did you hear a THUMP ??? " What the hell ?!?

[RodeoWearden]

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/ultimates3/02/preview/Pages-from-ULTMTSV3002_int-4.jpg

Look at Hawkeye's attire. Note the bare shoulders, and then in the bottom panel look around his legs. Is he wearing a trenchcoat? No no, his shoulders are bare.

Is he...Is hawkeye wearing a skirt?

And hey, I love the artwork.


And an interesting note,Loeb has addressed my two main issues with Ultimates 3. In this interview he mentions Thor exchanging his hammer, (which really got to me.) And in the video interview on Marvel.com, he mentioned how Wasp doesnt look asian and how that will somehow be addressed in story. (Cant think of any possible reason for the switch, but its comforting to know that it will at least be addressed.)

[desanth]

Man, after reading what Loeb had to say from that link, it just makes me want to smack him. There was enough talking in the first two volumes that he could just sh*t action onto comic book pages until the 3.3? Wow, this guy, I'm not even a writer but I know that you can't have a book series go from coherent, witty and interesting with some action, to lots of action and poor dialogue. I'll concede that maybe everything will make sense by the end of the story, but the dialogue is craptastic.

As for Hawkeye's skirt, I'm sure it'll be explained later in Ultimates 3 :rolleyes: I bet he's started crossdressing like Pym used to in 616 or whatever. Or he dolled himself up nice for BP. He is a little bit insane. Actually now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind that explanation.

[cowboyfunk]

On the unintentional comedy scale, Loeb clocks in at an eleven.

[Ultimate Interpol]

Look at Hawkeye's attire. Note the bare shoulders, and then in the bottom panel look around his legs. Is he wearing a trenchcoat? No no, his shoulders are bare.

Is he...Is hawkeye wearing a skirt?

And hey, I love the artwork.


And an interesting note,Loeb has addressed my two main issues with Ultimates 3. In this interview he mentions Thor exchanging his hammer, (which really got to me.) And in the video interview on Marvel.com, he mentioned how Wasp doesnt look asian and how that will somehow be addressed in story. (Cant think of any possible reason for the switch, but its comforting to know that it will at least be addressed.)

It's an A$$-cape, everyone is wearing one now-a-days.

[Grunty]

Well i think this interview pretty much shows that some people who write comics either give a **** about what we write on the internet, or just pick up those things they find intresting and ignor the rest (Like Lord Rust from Discworld who simply writes everything out, of the universe in his mind, that annoys him because he belives such things can't exist).

I mean why else does Loeb seems to completly ignor all bad reviews he got, not only from those faceless unimportant people like us, but also from nearly all comicbook sites which give reviews to comics (including the actual important ones like IGN and Wizard)?

Also funny to see that there seem to be indeed people who actualy liked the first issue as we can see on the first page of this thread.

Actualy i think that most of the ideas we saw in the first issue indeed fit into Ultimates, but not in a single issue. Wandas assasination, Venoms attack, Hawk Eyes changed personality, Tonys sextape, Hank getting poisend by someone, Thors new Girlfriend, Black Panther. This all would fit into Ultimates, but not in such a rushed and confusing manner.

It seems Loeb tries to squez story elements for 12 or 18 issues into 6.
For example the whole Tonys sex tape should have shockingly apeared in the middle of the first volume, with Tony getting a call by his secretary telling him to look on You-tube or something like that. With Miss Ross comming in and reminding him how this will drop his reputation quite a lot.

Venom should have infiltrated the Mansion sneakingly avoiding all the high tech secruity devices of Tony, taking out some guards out in a nasty way, before being found by one of the Ultimates (Hawk Eye for example), which then would have brought the battle into the main hall.
There all the Ultimates should have hang around in civilan clothes discussing about the tape.

Yes you hear me right, i think the plot elements of Ultimates 3.1 should have been divided over at least 2 or 3 issues.

By the way i thought if Loeb would have really wanted to shock some readers with Hawkeyes changed personality he should have done something more hinted.
For example Tony having an android maid which looks and sounds exactly like Black Widow (he told Hank to build him that one out one of his ultrons). As replacement for the buttler, she shot in Ultimates 2 (calling it his personal revenge on her).
Then during the storys its hinted that the one we see is actual the number 17 after all former had been "accidents", one with having "accidently" run into a butter knife, at head height, which stuck right between her eyes.
Something like that would have been really nasty, instand of Hawkeye shouting the whole time that his family is dead ala Batman:
Batman: "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!"
http://www.pvponline.com/my-parents-are-dead/

Okay sorry that was a bit long.

[Toboe]

Looks better than the first issue at least. And Loeb's Spider-Man is surprisingly good.

[Jayf44]

As much as I loved The Ultimates series, and as much as I usually love the work Loeb does, I really didn't like the new take on Ultimates. It just seemed so very different from the first 2 volumes, and reminded me of the things I don't like about older regular continuity Avengers. I think I just may not pick up future issues and drop reading it for a while. Also although I know he has lots of fans, I'm not a fan of the artwork, it reminds me too much of Marvel vs. Capcom videogame art.

I'll end with saying that growing up I never liked Capt. America. He was bossy, and a jerk often, and I didn't pick up books featuring him. But when the Ultimates came out, I became a fan in a new way (paired with how hardcore he was in Civil War - I just loved him). But this new version of Ultimate Cap doesn't seem like the guy from the first 2 books...

[Noronha]

Why don´t they leave Ultimate Spidey to Bendis?Please keep him away from Loeb´s hands.

[spiderman_rj]

It's an A$$-cape, everyone is wearing one now-a-days.

so she is not asian anymore? RACIST BASTARDS!
FUK THIS,first they completely change the mood of the comic with this comicky look from the "realistic" look and crude mood,with joe retardereira, who cant draw for shit,i cant believe he has so many fans who praise his grafiti making contact with paper hability,i refuse to call that art or even drawing,its an offense for any 4 years old out there learning to draw!
i could draw better then him at 11 !!
this book is gone for me untill they at least hire a penciler,or even a artist.

[spiderman_rj]

Why don´t they leave Ultimate Spidey to Bendis?Please keep him away from Loeb´s hands.

soon as you know spiderman is bi and a drug addicted.

[Mani]

i've never liked joe mad's artwork. the manga movement was wonkey and too distracting, i found it made the story hard to follow. this comic was a good example of that. the people looked good standing around but when the action came in (waaay to quickly and with no pretense) i thought it looked like a jumble.

the writing, as many of said, was really corny. one of the things that always drew me to the ultimates in the first place was the great, dead on dialogue that had terrific "voice" for each character. you could take away the panels and just have someone read the dialogue and you'd still know which character is speaking. in ult 3, a lot of it just sounded like really bad 90's era "holy crap guys!!!" stuff.

i'll still pick it up, though, hope it gets better.

[Prime24]

This thread is waaay to negative. and i bet everyone will pick up issue 2. Fine
Madureira is no Hitch. But since when did Hitch's artwork become Gospel. Those preview pages have fantastic artwork IMO. even spidey looks good and with regards to the storyline, i bet everyone would have complained if Mark Millar wrote volume 3 and used the same political satire theme again. Loeb is using the mystery plot. Let's give him a chance.

[xarathos]

It looks great, can't argue that.

[cowboyfunk]

This thread is waaay to negative. and i bet everyone will pick up issue 2. Fine Madureira is no Hitch. But since when did Hitch's artwork become Gospel. Those preview pages have fantastic artwork IMO. even spidey looks good and with regards to the storyline, i bet everyone would have complained if Mark Millar wrote volume 3 and used the same political satire theme again. Loeb is using the mystery plot. Let's give him a chance.

I will not pick up issue 2. I did not pick up issue 1. Joe Mad draws well. As a storyteller, I feel his work leaves something to be desired.

Loeb is a writer fit for Saturday morning cartoons. He writes simple dialogue and excels at simple story telling. He cannot handle complex characters and mature plots.

I'm glad Hitch and Millar are done. But, IMO, the current creative team fails to click on nearly every level.

[carabas]

This thread is waaay to negative. and i bet everyone will pick up issue 2. Fine
Madureira is no Hitch. But since when did Hitch's artwork become Gospel. Those preview pages have fantastic artwork IMO.They work fine as stand-alone pin-ups. As comic book panels that are supposed to tell astory, not so much.

Also, it's the writing that most people take issue with, not the art. Janet Pym has changed her race, and it'll be explained later on? Please...

[desanth]

Wasp not only changed race, she did it under a year. Anyone thinking Skrulls are behind this?

[BizarroBeachHead]

They work fine as stand-alone pin-ups. As comic book panels that are supposed to tell astory, not so much.

Also, it's the writing that most people take issue with, not the art. Janet Pym has changed her race, and it'll be explained later on? Please...

Yeah, how do you even begin to "address that" in the story?

[FIG]

But more importantly, why would you explain her ethnicity blunder away as Skrulls when its taking place in Ultimate continuity? Another thing bugging me that I just noticed is this: Hawkeye vs Spiderman, in that one page, is shooting at him and taking off the coat in the first panel but in the very next panel hes wearing his coat again while shooting at him from distance. Now thats just lazy. Yeah, I still love Joe MAD due to his amazing run on his own series (Battlechasers) and I can definetly see artistic progress as far as more dynamic and energetic art is concerned but the storytelling is just off. I did buy Issue #1 but I will NOT be buying anything else that Jeph Loeb puts his name to. EVER. And if comic fans critiques are to be taken seriously, I think Marvel needs to just scrap this mess and pretend it never happened in the same manner they are pretending The Hulk or The Punisher never existed as movies with the sequels on the way. A complete do-over would be the wisest choice. As for the red hulk happening now, I already know I won't be a part of it since the writing would just prove to be a joke. Bringing in some of the artists on Captain America would be the best outcome. I am talking Steve Epting or Mike Perkins.

Also, what needs to happen is Joe MAD being given his own series to play with written by a good writer who writes coherent, character driven dialouge and good story. Also, giving him an art director would probably ship him back into great storytelling shape. Better yet, pair him with the writer of Battlechasers and put him on a Thor story where continuity and cannon are meaningless. Let him go nuts. Thor for the longest time has needed a "hot" artist that could bring in numbers. Why not now?

[carabas]

Better yet, pair him with the writer of Battlechasers and put him on a Thor story where continuity and cannon are meaningless. Let him go nuts. Thor for the longest time has needed a "hot" artist that could bring in numbers. Why not now?But Thor has a 'hot' artist, and is bringing in the numbers.

They should just give him a creator-owned book that is not set in the Marvel-Universe. Or barring that, kick Claremont off Exiles and give him that.
(also, Madureira wrote Battle Chaser himself).

[zebop]

I have never, ever been a fan of Joe Mad's "art" and nothing I see on The Ultimates gives me cause to reconsider it now.

To go from Bryan Hitch's ultra-realistic style to Joe Mad's Nicktoons cartoon crap is like going from Metallica to Brittney Spears; the fall-off is precipitous.

Include me out. :mad:

[stillanerd]

Okay, this is going to sound a real fanboyish pet peeve (so my apologizes in advance) but looking at those preview panels, there is no way on God's Green Earth that Hawkeye should ever have been able to tag Spider-Man with a tranquilizer dart. Yes, yes, I know that Hawkeye is the greatest shot in the world and skilled with all kinds of projectile weapons, and yes I know that Spidey in the Ultimate universe has been shot before, but come on. Spidey, even in the Ultimate comics, has his patented spider-sense, which should have altered him to Hawkeye the moment he had him in Spidey's target sights. Not only that, but it also should have been enough for him to be aware of the dart and dodge it before it even hit him. He had no problem using his dodging all those other bullets, and yet somehow his reflexes aren't fast enough to avoid a single tranquilizer dart? I would think Loeb, since he has written about Spider-Man before, would have at least known this. Chalk it up to lazy writing in order to get the plot moving, I guess.

[Will.S]

Another thing bugging me that I just noticed is this: Hawkeye vs Spiderman, in that one page, is shooting at him and taking off the coat in the first panel but in the very next panel hes wearing his coat again while shooting at him from distance. Now thats just lazy.
Eh?

He never takes his jacket off in any of those panels.

[Xplicit Content]

I thought Loeb saying Janet's "race change" would be explained was sarcasm. It's as if he's seen all the complaints online and he's just messing with everyone. But hey, I could be wrong.

[dreyga2000]

I do like the way he right Spidey... His dialogue is dead on but Hawkeye's feels awkard and mistimed...

Grunty is probably right Loeb shoulda spread out the story more and put in more focus character development especially for a team book... It probably woulda help build the "questions" he set for the story. That's probably my biggest problem so far this story seems too plot-driven.

On a personal note: It's always a bad sign when you read a story and find yourself thinking of ways to improve it... :(



there is no way on God's Green Earth that Hawkeye should ever have been able to tag Spider-Man with a tranquilizer dart

Not nessarily Ultimate Spidey was once pegged by a random police officier... take it for what you will

[Grunty]

On a personal note: It's always a bad sign when you read a story and find yourself thinking of ways to improve it... :(

For me or for the story?
If you mean the first thing, than thanks for the warning, i will look out not to repeat it.

[dreyga2000]

For me or for the story?
If you mean the first thing, than thanks for the warning, i will look out not to repeat it.

For the story... It means the story is lacking and could be better and it's obvious to the reader

[Batman was taken]

I liked it...

[Magneto_X]

They should just give him a creator-owned book that is not set in the Marvel-Universe. Or barring that, kick Claremont off Exiles and give him that.
(also, Madureira wrote Battle Chaser himself).

Nope, the writer was Munier Sharrieff.

Mad created Battle Chasers. Not sure if Sharrieff helped with that aspect.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

I actually like the art itself. However, I don't think it's right for this title. The characters look more like their 616 counterparts, instead of their Ultimate selves.

So far, Loeb isn't...impressing me. I don't have too many complaints as of yet. I'll stick with the title, see where it goes. If this arc disappoints, oh well. I like looking at the art, and I like Loeb, so--we'll see.

This preview got me excited for the next issue--more so than I already was.

[togeteiku42]

I like hawkeyes new look. And I like that he is using guns instead of a bow and arrow.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

I like hawkeyes new look. And I like that he is using guns instead of a bow and arrow.

His look is pretty good. I mean, the costume could be a little better. Just some tweaking.

[Noronha]

Not nessarily Ultimate Spidey was once pegged by a random police officier... take it for what you will

Well he was being shot at not by one but 3 cops at the same time.

Okay, this is going to sound a real fanboyish pet peeve (so my apologizes in advance) but looking at those preview panels, there is no way on God's Green Earth that Hawkeye should ever have been able to tag Spider-Man with a tranquilizer dart. Yes, yes, I know that Hawkeye is the greatest shot in the world and skilled with all kinds of projectile weapons, and yes I know that Spidey in the Ultimate universe has been shot before, but come on. Spidey, even in the Ultimate comics, has his patented spider-sense, which should have altered him to Hawkeye the moment he had him in Spidey's target sights. Not only that, but it also should have been enough for him to be aware of the dart and dodge it before it even hit him. He had no problem using his dodging all those other bullets, and yet somehow his reflexes aren't fast enough to avoid a single tranquilizer dart? I would think Loeb, since he has written about Spider-Man before, would have at least known this. Chalk it up to lazy writing in order to get the plot moving, I guess.

Couldn´t agree more,i just hate when Spidey guest-appears and looks like a whimp.
It´s like outside his books he´s brain damaged

[Uproar]

I really don't understand what is goin on with this book, from reading Loebs interview it reads that he has loads of ideas for the story yet he's putting them in a 5 issue series not imo enough time to explore all of these ideas.

I still can't get over the lack of continuity of the characters between Vol.2 and Vol.3, not to mention the terrible costume redesigns, this is turning into a 90's Avengers book not an Ultimates book.

I like Joe Mad's art but have to agree that his story telling leaves alot to be desired.

How can Loeb make this book suck so much!!!

Issue 2 sounds like it's gonna be all action no substance, and his reference to Frank Miller and the " A man without hope is a man without fear" line fuels the fires of the rumour of Hawkeye being Ultimate Bullseye, subtile as always.

[BulletSpeed]

I have the same concernes that many of you do, but Im going to stick with this book to see how it plays out. Loeb has 4 more issues to work with, so I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt. Its not beyond the realm of possibility that he can turn this thing around and make it at the least a minimaly enjoyable title (although his recent Marvel trackrecord leads us to believe otherwise).

Oh and as for Joe Mad... quit hating! This guy is sick, Im sorry.

[Hard Son]

Well he was being shot at not by one but 3 cops at the same time.

Couldn´t agree more,i just hate when Spidey guest-appears and looks like a whimp.
It´s like outside his books he´s brain damaged

Yet Hawkeye took out a literal roomful of assailants with his fingernails when tied down.

If three cops blast away at Spidey and manage to tag him then it is entirely feasible for Hawkeye (who has had likely a couple of decades of experience compared to Spiderman's couple of years experience?) to hit him with a tranquilizer dart.

[Scorpion13]

Yet Hawkeye took out a literal roomful of assailants with his fingernails when tied down.

If three cops blast away at Spidey and manage to tag him then it is entirely feasible for Hawkeye (who has had likely a couple of decades of experience compared to Spiderman's couple of years experience?) to hit him with a tranquilizer dart.

Im not going to turn this into a Rumbles thing, but I should point out that Spider-Man is far faster and supremely more agile than Hawkeye ever was or ever will be. He also has much more room to move and doge than the men torturing Hawkeye did. And, of course, he has a superpower dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to making people who want to hit him miss.


Im calling shenanigans on this.

[Noronha]

Im not going to turn this into a Rumbles thing, but I should point out that Spider-Man is far faster and supremely more agile than Hawkeye ever was or ever will be. He also has much more room to move and doge than the men torturing Hawkeye did. And, of course, he has a superpower dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to making people who want to hit him miss.


Im calling shenanigans on this.

Well then shenanigans it is.

Yet Hawkeye took out a literal roomful of assailants with his fingernails when tied down.

If three cops blast away at Spidey and manage to tag him then it is entirely feasible for Hawkeye (who has had likely a couple of decades of experience compared to Spiderman's couple of years experience?) to hit him with a tranquilizer dart.

Spider-Man took out the Punisher twice without breaking a sweat while dodging every bullet,why is Hawkeye different?
Does he have super powers?It´s called plot convenience,and it annoys the hell out of me when they use it on spidey.

[Hard Son]

Spider-Man took out the Punisher twice without breaking a sweat while dodging every bullet,why is Hawkeye different?
Does he have super powers?It´s called plot convenience,and it annoys the hell out of me when they use it on spidey.

It is PIS or probably writer prerogative but I gather from your above quote that spiderman getting hit by a lesser character = fanboy grumble.

And with regards to it not being (or turning into) a rumble you are correct, Spidey would win that one, but itis entirely feasible that Hawkeye (a character with near perfect aim) would be able to hit him with one bullet/tranq dart.

[Noronha]

It is PIS or probably writer prerogative but I gather from your above quote that spiderman getting hit by a lesser character = fanboy grumble.

And with regards to it not being (or turning into) a rumble you are correct, Spidey would win that one, but itis entirely feasible that Hawkeye (a character with near perfect aim) would be able to hit him with one bullet/tranq dart.

It´s just everytime they use spidey on another book,they just make him hop around making jokes and look like a whimp.

[Will.S]

It´s just everytime they use spidey on another book,they just make him hop around making jokes and look like a whimp.
As an avid reader of Ultimate Spider-Man, I feel that the dialogue and Joe's rendition of him are spot on.

I mean yeah, the spider-sense was obviously bypassed somehow but it doesn't bother me all that much.

[carabas]

It´s just everytime they use spidey on another book,they just make him hop around making jokes and look like a whimp.Which is different from how he is used in Ultimate Spider-Man how exactly? Hawkeye vastly outclasses him.

[Noronha]

Which is different from how he is used in Ultimate Spider-Man how exactly? Hawkeye vastly outclasses him.

Then you and i must be reading different books

[carabas]

Then you and i must be reading different booksI jut reread the entire run from the beginning. Ultimate Peter Parker is not terribly good at what he does. For the most part, he gets by on luck, surprise factor, regular cops and criminals inexperience in fighting supers, and an occasional helping hand from Nick Fury.

Clint Barton on the other hand is one of the most well trained marksmen on the planet, or at least he was before his personality was wiped out.

[XPac]

To argue Hawkeye outclasses Spidey is pretty silly.

Hawkeye is an excellent marksman... but to hit Spider-Man with anything honestly takes luck. Most of the things that Spidey tackles alone, Hawkeye would need help with.

Even Fury mentioned that despite Spideys age, he's at times outperformed the Ultimates. So I disagree that Spidey isn't terribly good at what he does. The fact that he's not only alive but in fact sucessful tells you quite a lot.

[hunter_peterson]

Nothing to do with the last post but... Thor vs Valkyrie!?! In Ultimates 1 there was spousal abuse and in 2 there was a traitor! What the hell! Lazy writing, I guess. I can see him now, at his desk, thinking: "hmmm, those went over well, and Valkyrie said she was a girl Thor, yeah! Damn I'm good." AAARGH!

[Desmodus]

To argue Hawkeye outclasses Spidey is pretty silly.

Hawkeye is an excellent marksman... but to hit Spider-Man with anything honestly takes luck. Most of the things that Spidey tackles alone, Hawkeye would need help with.

Even Fury mentioned that despite Spideys age, he's at times outperformed the Ultimates. So I disagree that Spidey isn't terribly good at what he does. The fact that he's not only alive but in fact sucessful tells you quite a lot.

The question isn't; would Hawkeye be able to beat Spiderman in a fight? The question is; would Hawkeye be able to hit Spiderman with his armaments?

In this case; yes, he can.

Hawkeye isn't just an excellent marksman, he is the marksman of the Ultimate Universe.

Sure Clint didn't nail Peter with a single shot; it took him a lot judging from the frames we've seen thus far. And it wasn't an arrow which has much lower feet per second rate than a bullet/slug/round.

I haven't got the comics to reference with me right now but I'm pretty sure Hawkeye has displayed that he needs little clear sight distance and minimal time to pick off a fast moving target.

[Sean Whitmore]

Im not going to turn this into a Rumbles thing, but I should point out that Spider-Man is far faster and supremely more agile than Hawkeye ever was or ever will be. He also has much more room to move and doge than the men torturing Hawkeye did. And, of course, he has a superpower dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to making people who want to hit him miss.

Which are all things that get pushed to the side when a story calls for Peter to be hit.

As has been the case many, many a time.


SEAN

[Brian M.]

Man I liked this issue.

It was pretty fun and the dialogue seemed better. Colors were brighter.

[desanth]

For the Hawkeye hitting Spidet debate. I vote entirely possible/probable, although I don't like the spidersense bypass(I don't have the issue but I'm assuming there weren't any wavy spidey-sense lines or dialogue that mentioned the sense). Hawkeye should lose in a fight against spidey if he doesn't get the drop on him, since Spidey was holding his own against Cap in the Sinister 6 mini and I know Hawkeye doesn't compare to Cap. My opinion on it all.

I always hate whenever Spidey visits another title, there is no substance to his character, just mostly the usual spidey fight dialogue, which while entertaining, is easy to do and one dimensional. Can't help it when you got about half a dozen characters to focus on I guess.

[Will.S]

Man I liked this issue.

It was pretty fun and the dialogue seemed better. Colors were brighter.
Same here.

Iron Man's armor looks weird though, much more streamlined and "616" looking.

[Dr. Chaos]

Well..it was abit of an improvement over the first issue but I can't really say that means too much.

The issues are mostly fun so far and the art is absolutely fantastic but Loeb is writing some of the worst battle dialogue and quips of his career right now, it makes the book come off more cheesey than it should at times.

I do like Loeb trying to keep up with the sensationalized/celebrity avengers angle though, I really hope to never see the Ultimates played as just straight up avengers.

[Beerman]

after reading the second issue, i feel short-changed. it's written like those old goddam Image comics. the art's great, but man, bring back millar and hitch asap.

joe mad's style is better left for battle chasers or somesuch. the ultimates needs great and realistic artwork. not a cartoony one the way chris bachalo is to the x-books. these books demand realistic styles.

sorry jeph, but it's bad.

[Gnarl]

I don't see how hawkeyes skill as a marksman matters?

I mean, so he is able to point his gun at spidy more accurately than another marksman. So what? In the time between his pulling the trigger and the bullet getting to where spidy was when he did, Spider-man should have all the time in the world to do anything he like.

This book did seem a bit like they were hoping for 90s nostalgia.

[carabas]

I just downloaded it, and now want to pedal back on my opinion regarding Hawkeye shooting Spider-Man.
Hawkeye should by all means be able to hit Spider-Man in a fight, but he has pretty much zero chance of hitting him with a single sniped shot like that.

[XPac]

The question isn't; would Hawkeye be able to beat Spiderman in a fight? The question is; would Hawkeye be able to hit Spiderman with his armaments?

In this case; yes, he can.

Hawkeye isn't just an excellent marksman, he is the marksman of the Ultimate Universe.

Sure Clint didn't nail Peter with a single shot; it took him a lot judging from the frames we've seen thus far. And it wasn't an arrow which has much lower feet per second rate than a bullet/slug/round.

I haven't got the comics to reference with me right now but I'm pretty sure Hawkeye has displayed that he needs little clear sight distance and minimal time to pick off a fast moving target.

My actual point was to disagree with the arguement that Hawkeye outclasses Spidey.

In regards to Hawkeye shooting Spidey... I don't know. I can buy a randon stray shot getting through if he's lucky... but to me it didn't come off that way. This just seemed like an instance where spider senses were convininetly ignored to progress the story.

[Vapour Trail]

I don't see how hawkeyes skill as a marksman matters?

I mean, so he is able to point his gun at spidy more accurately than another marksman. So what? In the time between his pulling the trigger and the bullet getting to where spidy was when he did, Spider-man should have all the time in the world to do anything he like.

This book did seem a bit like they were hoping for 90s nostalgia.

Spider-man was hit while he was standing on top of the police car, not when he was already engaging Hawkeye in battle.

[Noronha]

Spider-man was hit while he was standing on top of the police car, not when he was already engaging Hawkeye in battle.

Yeah if only he had some kind of 6th sense that warned him if he´s in danger.

[RodeoWearden]

So here's a thought. At the very end when Quicksilver speedily whisked everyone away...did he grab Blob? Cause seriously, can you imagine Quicky trying to run with that guy on his back?

I know Tony threw him through the roof with his shiny new 616 armor, but did he ever land? And if so, how did he get out of there?

[carabas]

Spider-man was hit while he was standing on top of the police car, not when he was already engaging Hawkeye in battle.Which makes it al the more ludicrous. Hawkeye should be able to tag spidey in battle. If he's moving, no amount of Spidersense is going to eliminate his inertia. If he's going from point A to pint B with a speed of C, there's only so many places he can jump to, and Hawkeye can shoot them all.

If on the other hand, he's not fighting, and in the wide open, his spidersense should protect him from a sniper attack.

[Blader5489]

So here's a thought. At the very end when Quicksilver speedily whisked everyone away...did he grab Blob? Cause seriously, can you imagine Quicky trying to run with that guy on his back?

I know Tony threw him through the roof with his shiny new 616 armor, but did he ever land? And if so, how did he get out of there?

I think you might be lost.

Ultimates 3
This way---->

Logical storytelling
<-----That way

[Sion]

I think you might be lost.

Ultimates 3
This way---->

Logical storytelling
<-----That way

HAHAHAHA x 6.022e23! =D