Is Cyclops a hypocrite ?

[CMBMOOL]

Since we now know that Cyclops reforms the X-force team after the events of the Messiah complex without any of the other X-men knowing about, but does that make him a hypocrite for being mad at Xaiver,when he's doing the exact same thing ? :(

[Pro]

Not so much for that but for the fact he reforms X-force to be a kill squad to take out enemies permanently and then having the gall to pretend to be the heir of Xavier's dream at the same time.

[Monty_Cristo]

and an adulterer

[Beast]

And Emma dresses him funny. In fact, she dresses the whole team funny. :p

[RickyD410]

I dont think so. They're different things really. Cyclops is using X-Force as a team of assasins to take out enemies. Xavier did horrible things TO the X-Men, and then kept it secret. Cyke isnt hurting his teammates with this one.

[Christopher O]

I dont think so. They're different things really. Cyclops is using X-Force as a team of assasins to take out enemies. Xavier did horrible things TO the X-Men, and then kept it secret. Cyke isnt hurting his teammates with this one.

Well, what he did to Madrox and, consequently, Layla was shit and definitely makes him a hypocrite.

[RickyD410]

Well, what he did to Madrox and, consequently, Layla was shit and definitely makes him a hypocrite.

Ooooh, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was a low blow.

But technically, he didnt plan on sending Layla. She did that all by herself. But what he did to Jamie was terrible.

So for THAT yes, he's a hypocrite. But not for forming X-Force.

[Christopher O]

But technically, he didnt plan on sending Layla. She did that all by herself. But what he did to Jamie was terrible.
That's why I said consequently. Had they been fully aware of what Cyclops had planned, Layla may not have made that jump because Madrox may not have gone through with it.

[Pach!]

He isn't a hypocrite, I don't think he's upset that Charles Xavier decided to risk the lives of team 1.5 but rather make everyone forget it ever happened. And Cyclops hasn't done that.


And Layla probably knew what she was getting into, which just shows how kickass she is.

[Christopher O]

And Layla probably knew what she was getting into, which just shows how kickass she is.
Yeah, Layla would've gone through with it, but that doesn't mean Jamie would've. Without a dupe, there'd have been no reason for Layla to go.

[XPac]

I always wondered about Cyclops... does he actually have the authority to kick Xavier out of the school? He seems to be pretty quick at showing Xavier the door, but doesn't Xavier actually own the school?

Or did Scott and Emma buy it at one point or something? If that's not the case, then it seems to be that Xaiver should be able to stay there whenever he dam well pleases.

[Pach!]

Yeah, Layla would've gone through with it, but that doesn't mean Jamie would've. Without a dupe, there'd have been no reason for Layla to go.

I dunno, Madrox only seemed concerned about Layla and not his dupes once he found out, I think he would have gone through with it knowing. Regardless Cyclops decided not to tell him so the whatifs don't really matter. That was a dick move on his part.

Xaviers dick moves are a different nature though. When Madrox wakes up if he wanted to he could go and beat Cyclops up. Cyclops is taking responsibility for his decisions. Xavier just mindwiped everyone.

[Christopher O]

I always wondered about Cyclops... does he actually have the authority to kick Xavier out of the school? He seems to be pretty quick at showing Xavier the door, but doesn't Xavier actually own the school?

Or did Scott and Emma buy it at one point or something? If that's not the case, then it seems to be that Xaiver should be able to stay there whenever he dam well pleases.
Xavier still owns the property, which makes Scott's behavior even more absurd.

[Sanctus]

Xavier and Cyclops have both been turds at some point, especially Xavier with the whole mind swipe of a brother thing, but because of their dedication, they have been allowed to remain in the X-fold. let's see if the same solicitousness and courtesy is extended to Bishop, who as of now, is looking like the turd of 2008.

[matthewaos]

Xavier still owns the property, which makes Scott's behavior even more absurd.

Didn't Emma bought the school after "here comes tomorrow"?

[Red Lotus]

Not so much for that but for the fact he reforms X-force to be a kill squad to take out enemies permanently and then having the gall to pretend to be the heir of Xavier's dream at the same time.


Well since the talk is UXM 500 is going to be about the team coming back together to pursue Scott's vision of what the X-men should be then I guess that means he and the other X-men can now see that Xavier dream might be just that.


Didn't Emma bought the school after "here comes tomorrow"?

Xavier stills owns the grounds but he feels so guilty about what he has done to Scott that he is going to take whatever punishment that Scott puts out. And no forming X-Force does not make Scott a hypocrite because the team is acting out of their own free-will and he has not mind wipe people to keep his secret.

[Hi-Fi]

When Madrox wakes up if he wanted to he could go and beat Cyclops up. Cyclops is taking responsibility for his decisions. Xavier just mindwiped everyone.
He was going to do it and Emma made him sleep, with Scott's approval. I bet that if Cyclops had telephaty like Xavier, he would have done it himself, instead of letting that whore do it.

Cyclops is worse than Xavier in my eyes.

[Pach!]

He was going to do it and Emma made him sleep, with Scott's approval. I bet that if Cyclops had telephaty like Xavier, he would have done it himself, instead of letting that whore do it.

Cyclops is worse than Xavier in my eyes.

He didn't put him to sleep to avoid the punch but rather avoid having a pointless discussion at the time. It doesn't make a difference if they rescue Layla now or next year she's still 80 years in the future. But Madrox wasn't going to listen to that in that moment.

And Xavier is still much much worse for me.

[CMBMOOL]

He didn't put him to sleep to avoid the punch but rather avoid having a pointless discussion at the time. It doesn't make a difference if they rescue Layla now or next year she's still 80 years in the future. But Madrox wasn't going to listen to that in that moment.

And Xavier is still much much worse for me.

Besides didn't Scott hold some harsh memories of House Of M when he met Layla again in X-factor ? :(

[Omega Alpha]

That's why I said consequently. Had they been fully aware of what Cyclops had planned, Layla may not have made that jump because Madrox may not have gone through with it.

Layla knew it. That's what she does.

And, granted, he won't win awards for it, but unless he reads X-factor, he has no reason to think of the dupes as human beings just like any other.

I dunno, Madrox only seemed concerned about Layla and not his dupes once he found out, I think he would have gone through with it knowing. Regardless Cyclops decided not to tell him so the whatifs don't really matter. That was a dick move on his part.

Xaviers dick moves are a different nature though. When Madrox wakes up if he wanted to he could go and beat Cyclops up. Cyclops is taking responsibility for his decisions. Xavier just mindwiped everyone.

Exactly.


Xavier stills owns the grounds but he feels so guilty about what he has done to Scott that he is going to take whatever punishment that Scott puts out. And no forming X-Force does not make Scott a hypocrite because the team is acting out of their own free-will and he has not mind wipe people to keep his secret.

Plus, the team's goal isn't that different from Rogue's X-men, and is not formed by unexperienced people.

He didn't put him to sleep to avoid the punch but rather avoid having a pointless discussion at the time. It doesn't make a difference if they rescue Layla now or next year she's still 80 years in the future. But Madrox wasn't going to listen to that in that moment.

And Xavier is still much much worse for me.

Scott should have mindwiped Madrox into forgetting about Layla completely. Maybe then he would be a better person, like Xavier is.

[Beast]

To be fair, the only person Xavier mind wiped in Deadly Genesis was Scott. But only because Scott was basically catatonic after he saw the X-Men 1.5 and his brother die on Krakoa. But Xavier needed Scott, so did what he had to do. Moira still remembered them. Nobody else was aware of them, except Scott.

[Hi-Fi]

And, granted, he won't win awards for it, but unless he reads X-factor, he has no reason to think of the dupes as human beings just like any other.
Is he a moron then? What did he think they were? Robots?

Plus, the team's goal isn't that different from Rogue's X-men, and is not formed by unexperienced people.
Considering that Rogue's team was Cyclops idea as well, X-Force is only his way of upgrading the killing factor. Let's not forget how mad Rogue was when Regan kicked an unconscious man on the face. Rogue's team wasn't formed to kill anybody. The only did it when needed.

[Hi-Fi]

And no forming X-Force does not make Scott a hypocrite because the team is acting out of their own free-will and he has not mind wipe people to keep his secret.
Laura is still a minor, though. I find it funny how Scott will stay at his ivory tower and keep his hands cleans while others do his dirty work for him.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Considering that Rogue's team was Cyclops idea as well, X-Force is only his way of upgrading the killing factor. Let's not forget how mad Rogue was when Regan kicked an unconscious man on the face. Rogue's team wasn't formed to kill anybody. The only did it when needed.

Funny, I seem to recall ya whining about Cyke not doing anything after the Purifiers murdered the kids...? So now that he's letting Wolvie loose on them, he's the bad guy? :confused:

He's not exactly sending X-Force against clueless pawns who make it a point to hurt people without killing them.

[Hi-Fi]

Funny, I seem to recall ya whining about Cyke not doing anything after the Purifiers murdered the kids...?
I never did. I said the kids died under Scott's care.


Oh, I'm totally cool with the Purifiers biting. But that's not why the X-Men were created. X-Men don't kill.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I never did. I said the kids died under Scott's care.


Oh, I'm totally cool with the Purifiers biting. But that's not why the X-Men were created. X-Men don't kill.

But they're not X-Men. Cyke spent and will spend lots of time pimping Logan's te... I mean, EXPLAINING it.

Oh, and fair enough about the first part.

And just so we're on the same page, I'm not exactly thrilled at Cyke's "big push" (WTF?).

From stoic geek/asshole to clueless ineffective douche. Great.

[Omega Alpha]

Is he a moron then? What did he think they were? Robots?

Who knows? The characters don't read X-factor, you know.



Considering that Rogue's team was Cyclops idea as well, X-Force is only his way of upgrading the killing factor. Let's not forget how mad Rogue was when Regan kicked an unconscious man on the face. Rogue's team wasn't formed to kill anybody. The only did it when needed.

The team was created to do the dirty work. And if Rogue picked people like Mystique, Cable, and one of the greatest killing machines on the MU, she can't expect people to die only from time to time.

Funny, I seem to recall ya whining about Cyke not doing anything after the Purifiers murdered the kids...? So now that he's letting Wolvie loose on them, he's the bad guy? :confused:

He's not exactly sending X-Force against clueless pawns who make it a point to hurt people without killing them.

Is always like that with Scott. People whine if he doesn't remember Jean, if he remembers her, if he doesn't have the balls to kill, if he kills people, if he follows and respects Xavier, if he tells Chuck to go to hell, and so on...

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Is always like that with Scott. People whine if he doesn't remember Jean, if he remembers her, if he doesn't have the balls to kill, if he kills people, if he follows and respects Xavier, if he tells Chuck to go to hell, and so on...

Eh. It always cracked me up how people whined about Cyke not being gray enough and now that he's getting there, well...

[Slant]

Rogue's team wasn't formed to kill anybody.
They brought Creed with them.

X-Force is slightly different, but its the same idea with a better cast to perform the task, one that wouldn't turn on them.

[Hi-Fi]

Is always like that with Scott. People whine if he doesn't remember Jean, if he remembers her, if he doesn't have the balls to kill, if he kills people, if he follows and respects Xavier, if he tells Chuck to go to hell, and so on...
It's always like that with Scott's fans. When people are discussing Scott's behavior, they're suddenly whinning.

Yeah, OA, people obviously have preferences. LOL. I prefer Cyclops as a less bloodthirsty leader. I also prefer him with Jean. And I'd love it if he wasn't an ass to Xavier. I'm just discussing the character's changes, I'm not whinning. People use that word very freely around here. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

They brought Creed with them.

X-Force is slightly different, but its the same idea with a better cast to perform the task, one that wouldn't turn on them.
Creed was a prisioner. He was imprisioned at ALL times at the Conquistador.

[Omega Alpha]

Creed was a prisioner. He was imprisioned at ALL times at the Conquistador.

Except when they released him to help on missions. And, while he wasn't really on the team, if you have a psychopath with you and use him, you can't complain about others forming a team to kill people.

[Jackob]

Creed was a prisioner. He was imprisioned at ALL times at the Conquistador.

but they did let him out for missions, like the children, who alot were killed by rouges team. and against pandemic too

[Hi-Fi]

Except when they released him to help on missions. And, while he wasn't really on the team, if you have a psychopath with you and use him, you can't complain about others forming a team to kill people.
LOL.

Is Rogue complaining about something?

[Hi-Fi]

but they did let him out for missions, like the children, who alot were killed by rouges team. and against pandemic too
But he was more like a hostage. He was infected with nano-sentinels (subplot abandoned because of Loeb's arc).

And the Children were ready to destroy the entire humanity. That's why I said that the team killed when needed.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

LOL.

Is Rogue complaining about something?

To be fair, I'm not even sure she will.

It'll probably be like "Huh, so team's disbanded, eh? Might as well go on a vacation."

[Omega Alpha]

It's always like that with Scott's fans. When people are discussing Scott's behavior, they're suddenly whinning.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact quite often, well, they are whining.


Yeah, OA, people obviously have preferences. LOL. I prefer Cyclops as a less bloodthirsty leader. I also prefer him with Jean. And I'd love it if he wasn't an ass to Xavier. I'm just discussing the character's changes, I'm not whinning. People use that word very freely around here. ;)

People have preferences? Really?:confused:


:p

And you may not be whining, but there are certainly others that are not following your example. Not that hard to see it. After Tony Stark, no characters gets more whiners than Cyke. He's like the Bendis of the Marvel characters (Stark is Millar):D

[Pach!]

I think the X-men like to say they don't kill but they turn their eye when its convenient. No one complains Logan is on EVERY team and hes the biggest killer of them all. When there's only 200 mutants left, you have to bend the rules.

[Hi-Fi]

Things I whinne about:

Rogue being in a coma.
Rogue not appearing a lot in MC.
Rogue not being in a book until May.

Now Mike Carey, now HE knows my whinning. LOL. Poor dude.

[Hi-Fi]

I think the X-men like to say they don't kill but they turn their eye when its convenient. No one complains Logan is on EVERY team and hes the biggest killer of them all. When there's only 200 mutants left, you have to bend the rules.
But I like to think that they make an effort. I think Scott's new posture is a very serious one, wether you approve it or not. It's definitely a big change when it comes to the team motivations.

[Brian M.]

Things I whinne about:

Rogue being in a coma.
Rogue not appearing a lot in MC.
Rogue not being in a book until May.

Now Mike Carey, now HE knows my whinning. LOL. Poor dude.

Well no one wants to be whined too after a long night of sweet sweet love.:D

[Hi-Fi]

Well no one wants to be whined too after a long night of sweet sweet love.:D
And that's right here is why Carey doesn't post at CBR!

[Brian M.]

And that's right here is why Carey doesn't post at CBR!

Really?

I'll leave.

I'm sorry.

[Omega Alpha]

But I like to think that they make an effort. I think Scott's new posture is a very serious one, wether you approve it or not. It's definitely a big change when it comes to the team motivations.

Well, the times have changed, both in the MU (I think everyone knows what) and outside of it. The code against killing that most heroes have was created for 2 reasons:

1) The Comics Code, since censorship was against killing.
2) If you kill your villains and heroes, then you can't use them anymore.

Since there is no censorship anymore and death is a revolving door, the code against killing has lost it's reason to exist. Also, overall the audience is older now and can read more violence. And the more agressive approach, more acceptive of death is just not on the X-men, Brubaker had Cap. America killing people in the war, something that wasn't admitted before, same for Bucky (even before becoming Winter Soldier), Hulk killed Miek on WWH, and so on.

Plus, comics are just reflecting overall perception of killing in fiction. When Godard had Michel Poiccard, the hero of the story, killing a cop, that was something revolutionary and which you didn't see every day. Now few would find it shocking.

[Hi-Fi]

Well, the times have changed, both in the MU (I think everyone knows what) and outside of it. The code against killing that most heroes have was created for 2 reasons:

1) The Comics Code, since censorship was against killing.
2) If you kill your villains and heroes, then you can't use them anymore.

Since there is no censorship anymore and death is a revolving door, the code against killing has lost it's reason to exist. Also, overall the audience is older now and can read more violence. And the more agressive approach, more acceptive of death is just not on the X-men, Brubaker had Cap. America killing people in the war, something that wasn't admitted before, same for Bucky (even before becoming Winter Soldier), Hulk killed Miek on WWH, and so on.

Plus, comics are just reflecting overall perception of killing in fiction. When Godard had Michel Poiccard, the hero of the story, killing a cop, that was something revolutionary and which you didn't see every day. Now few would find it shocking.
All very good points, but it's a huge thing that they decided to change the entire team's motivation just to fit someone's definition of what's cool and acceptable today. I love how the comics media don't have a censorship as annoying and abusive as it had in the past (though Logan still can't smoke, which is insane in my mind), I just don't think that just because of that, the X-Men should form a band of killers. I'll obviously read X-Force and enjoy it, but I wont agree with Cyclops' reasoning behind it.

And Poiccard was so not a hero! More like an anti-hero.

[Hi-Fi]

OA, you're from Rio as well, right? We should have some kind of geeks meeting or somthing.

[DeniseXfrost]

I only have a problem with him doesn't tell Em about Xforce, but this issuse will be dealt later in XForce I hope.

[CMBMOOL]

But I like to think that they make an effort. I think Scott's new posture is a very serious one, wether you approve it or not. It's definitely a big change when it comes to the team motivations.

And who knows what the Uncanny team's Main objectives are since the mutant community is dwon so low ? :(

[Omega Alpha]

All very good points, but it's a huge thing that they decided to change the entire team's motivation just to fit someone's definition of what's cool and acceptable today. I love how the comics media don't have a censorship as annoying and abusive as it had in the past (though Logan still can't smoke, which is insane in my mind), I just don't think that just because of that, the X-Men should form a band of killers. I'll obviously read X-Force and enjoy it, but I wont agree with Cyclops' reasoning behind it.

And Poiccard was so not a hero! More like an anti-hero.

Logan doesn't smoke because Joe Q doesn't want to.

And, well, for one thing, they aren't really changing to fit on it as much as it being a reflection of the cultural changes, with writers who aren't against heroes killing taking over the books (like Mike Carey :D ), and fans overall not being against their heroes killing, as well as it being a reaction to the events of the comics. The X-men were against killing (although many of them, Scott included, wouldn't be against killing someone like Sinister or Apocalypse), but times have changed. Their enemies became more violent, and now instead of having anti-mutant robots against them, they have actual humans and metahumans trying to murder them all. Also, they can't afford to lose members anymore, and the baby can change mutantkind entirely and the history of the world. Finally, really, what should Scott do? Await until the Purifiers attack again? Give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they will change this time?

And, yeah, I know Poiccard was an anti-hero, but he was the leading character, theorically the one supposed to be the hero and stuff. In the 50's and 60's, it wasn't that normal to have the hero being an anti-hero or the villain. Now we have a TV show following the everyday of a serial killer (and being awesome at that).

[Omega Alpha]

OA, you're from Rio as well, right? We should have some kind of geeks meeting or somthing.

Yes, I'm from Rio. But geeks meeting don't usually end well. Either nothing happens or it ends up on a fight about something that will make normal people think we're idiots, like if Rogue's best costume is Bachalo's or Jim Lee's. :D

[Pach!]

Yes, I'm from Rio. But geeks meeting don't usually end well. Either nothing happens or it ends up on a fight about something that will make normal people think we're idiots, like if Rogue's best costume is Bachalo's or Jim Lee's. :D

Bachalo's.

[Hi-Fi]

Bachalo's!!

[Omega Alpha]

You see, now I have to fight you all to death:p

[Kage Kisaragi]

I think people are hating on Xavier just for the sake of hating on Xavier. I don't know if Scotts a hypocrit or not I try to analyze motives in the x-books. If I can recognize a new plot twist then thats all I need. Scott can flip flop as much as he likes and I wont hold it against him, just like I don't hold what Xavier has done in the past against him.. because in any case its for what can be preceived as the greater good, and while Scott's actions haven't yet proved what he is doing is for the greater good most of the things Xavier did was.

[Omega Alpha]

I think people are hating on Xavier just for the sake of hating on Xavier. I don't know if Scotts a hypocrit or not I try to analyze motives in the x-books. If I can recognize a new plot twist then thats all I need. Scott can flip flop as much as he likes and I wont hold it against him, just like I don't hold what Xavier has done in the past against him.. because in any case its for what can be preceived as the greater good, and while Scott's actions haven't yet proved what he is doing is for the greater good most of the things Xavier did was.

So, you're saying that Scott is acting for his own benefit? He has ulterior motives in everything?

[Red Lotus]

To be fair, the only person Xavier mind wiped in Deadly Genesis was Scott. But only because Scott was basically catatonic after he saw the X-Men 1.5 and his brother die on Krakoa. But Xavier needed Scott, so did what he had to do. Moira still remembered them. Nobody else was aware of them, except Scott.

Didn't he mind wipe Emma and others out side of the Hellfire club.


Laura is still a minor, though. I find it funny how Scott will stay at his ivory tower and keep his hands cleans while others do his dirty work for him.

She can still say no. She doesn't have to be on that team. But outside of Wolverine she fits in with what X-Force is about more then the others.

Scott hands aren't clean what ever this team does is on his hands.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I only have a problem with him doesn't tell Em about Xforce, but this issuse will be dealt later in XForce I hope.

She probably knows.

[Sean Whitmore]

Jesus Jiminy fucking Christmas. It's like someone decided to take a Tony Stark thread, change all the names, and move it to the X-Board.


SEAN

[Omega Alpha]

Jesus Jiminy fucking Christmas. It's like someone decided to take a Tony Stark thread, change all the names, and move it to the X-Board.


SEAN

That's more or less what I said a few posts ago.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I thought some of us called it waaaayyy back last summer that Cyke would be the x-verse's Stark...?

[DeniseXfrost]

Only Cyclop gets to sleep with Emma more.
She probably knows.
Hope so.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Only Cyclop gets to sleep with Emma more.

Hope so.

Why would he hide it from her?

I didn't get the vibe it was her idea or she had much of a say in it, but I doubt he'd hide it from her. It's not as if she'd disagree or throw hissy fit because he made one call without her.

[DeniseXfrost]

Yeah why would he hide it from her?:rolleyes:

The latest previews of Xforce, kinda gave that impression.

[Slung]

Why would he hide it from her?

I didn't get the vibe it was her idea or she had much of a say in it, but I doubt he'd hide it from her. It's not as if she'd disagree or throw hissy fit because he made one call without her.

Wait? Do we think that Emma would have a problem with X-Force? It was probably her idea. She IS the only one who was training teenagers to be assassins via manipulation and mindscrews. She is also the only one of the current X-Men who has coldbloodedly murdered. I'm sure she has NO moral hangups over X-Force.

[Brian M.]

I'm glad he hides it from her.

Maybe she'll find out and leave him.

[Christopher O]

Jesus Jiminy fucking Christmas. It's like someone decided to take a Tony Stark thread, change all the names, and move it to the X-Board.


SEAN
Oh, give me a break, Sean. It isn't nearly that bad. You're just a drama queen!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah why would he hide it from her?:rolleyes:

I'm totally serious. Why?


The latest previews of Xforce, kinda gave that impression.

I didn't get the vibe Emma was included in "no one".

It's not as if she read his mind whenever she felt like it...? Or that "attuned" thingy from #204...

[Ann Nichols]

It was in "New X-Men" v.1, #155 that Emma offered to rebuild the school somewhere else. However when Hank said that Xavier left rebuilding the school up to them, he didn't say that Xavier hadn't left them the money to rebuild and operate the school even though Xavier wasn't in the mood to rebuild.

In "Excalibur" v.3, #1, Charles, talking with his involuntary telepathic illusion of Moira, asked her, "D'you think this is a mistake? Abandoning my students, my school, the X-Men--?" and "Moira" [therefore himself] replied, "I think after all that's happened... ...y' both need time t' heal. They need t' learn t' truly get along wi'out you. An' you -- even more -- need t' learn, t' prove the same.".

Also, Charles was thinking in (Excal v.3, issue #8), "Coming to Genosha, I left behind everything I had of value. The school I founded, my work, my students, who had become my family. Some say I abandoned them."

Setting aside the fact that in what may be as few as two days after he openly admitted he abandoned them, Charles is implying that he does not agree that he abandoned them, he not thinking of the school as gone and he doesn't expect it to be rebuilt.)

Four story pages later in NXM v.1, #155, Scott is asking Hank if he really thinks the Professor won't come back and won't rebuild. In #156, Emma told Scott he could leave Xavier's if he wanted to, but she was staying. The school was rebuilt, as we know, but I know of no X-title issue that states that Emma paid and is still paying. If someone else does, or can cite a Marvel declaration that Emma is financially backing the school, please let me know.

So far as I know, the Xavier estate still belongs to Charles Xavier and Scott is being absurd. In "X-Men: Deadly Genesis" #6, Scott "justified" telling Xavier he had to leave on the grounds that he (Scott) ran the institute now and Xavier didn't belong because he wasn't a mutant anymore. Xavier said it was his home, his life...

There was nothing in that conversation to tell us that Xavier no longer owns the land.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Wait? Do we think that Emma would have a problem with X-Force? It was probably her idea.

To be honest, I doubt she'd have the audacity to suggest that Cyke kill his own son. I like to think she's smart enough to not risk a knee-jerk reaction...?

I'm sure she has NO moral hangups over X-Force.

Good God, us agreeing twice in the same evening? :D

But, yeah, what Slung said. Why would Emma would have a problem with killing people?

[Omega Alpha]

Well, considering Xavier came back later and no one said it wasn't his place, yeah, it's kinda of obvious that the place is still his. And Scott was understandably angry, so much that even Xavier recognized it would be better if he left for a while.

[Slung]

To be honest, I doubt she'd have the audacity to suggest that Cyke kill his own son. I like to think she's smart enough to not risk a knee-jerk reaction...?

She probably wouldn't suggest it - but really, Emma is beyond audacious ;).

Good God, us agreeing twice in the same evening? :D

But, yeah, what Slung said. Why would Emma would have a problem with killing people?
Its like the sign of the apocalypse.

[DeniseXfrost]

I'm totally serious. Why?
Umm ask Scott. It's bothering myself as well. You thought I was being sacarstic right?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She probably wouldn't suggest it - but really, Emma is beyond audacious ;).

Well, sure.

But she sure as hell wouldn't brainwash him into doing it. What, you think she wants her own Deadly Genesis or something? :D

[Ann Nichols]

Even though Xavier mindwiped Scott when it came to what happened to Krakoa, he didn't do the same thing when Thunderbird I died, not even though he was worried about Scott's reaction to John's death.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Umm ask Scott. It's bothering myself as well.

Here's hoping my "she knows but we won't bother with it on panel" theory is the good one, eh.

Otherwise, it better not f****n be another "She'd think less of me if I go homicidal/hardcore" a la Jott.

You thought I was being sacarstic right?

I totally did, lol.

[DeniseXfrost]

Otherwise, it better not f****n be another "She'd think less of me if I go homicidal/hardcore" a la Jott.

and it'll bite him in ass and lots of people here will scream I told you so.I totally did, lol.
Ok, I'll stop rolling my eyes.

[Sean Whitmore]

That's more or less what I said a few posts ago.

It was an astute observation then, and it remains so to this very day.


SEAN

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

and it'll bite him in ass and lots of people here will scream I told you so.

"Told him so" what?

That she was Jean 2.0? Cause NO ONE in the MU even got anywhere close to KINDA thinking that, lol. :eek:

Unless you mean they told him it'd be a disaster. Then, yeah, kinda.

[Christopher O]

It was an astute observation then, and it remains so to this very day.


SEAN
DRAMA QUEEN!!!

[Hi-Fi]

Maybe we should discuss Mary Jane's current status to make Sean feel more at home?

[DeniseXfrost]

Unless you mean they told him it'd be a disaster. Then, yeah, kinda.
Yeb yeb.

asdfkl;alsd

[Sean Whitmore]

Maybe we should discuss Mary Jane's current status to make Sean feel more at home?

Who is that?

The name doesn't ring a bell, but I do feel an unnameable torment in my soul.


SEAN

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeb yeb.

Well, to be fair, short of the occasional Jean spat and her mind-raping him into a coma, it wasn't *that* bad, was it?

[DeniseXfrost]

She knew by doing that Scott would kick ass in #23!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She knew by doing that Scott would kick ass in #23!

No she didn't. :D

And I wasn't using an accusatory tone. Just referring to it as somewhat of amilestone moments.

[DeniseXfrost]

No she didn't.
You have no idea how much she knew. You see, she knew by getting herself involved in the hellfireclub someday she'll get to sleep with Scott and help saving the mutant race. She was never evil!
And I wasn't using an accusatory tone. Just referring to it as somewhat of amilestone moments.
I don't care! She need to know everything! lol

[Imperfect]

I dunno, Madrox only seemed concerned about Layla and not his dupes once he found out, I think he would have gone through with it knowing.

Of course his main concerns would be toward the life of a child and teammate.

[Slung]

You have no idea how much she knew. You see, she knew by getting herself involved in the hellfireclub someday she'll get to sleep with Scott and help saving the mutant race. She was never evil!

I don't care! She need to know everything! lol

This is what happens when we have terrible retcon solo series about former evildoers. Psychotic episodes from fangirls.

You just need some medicine. *Slung hands Denise "Jean Pills"* There all better.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

This is what happens when we have terrible retcon solo series about former evildoers.

Yeah, what was up with that wreck of a series anyway?

I don't see what was wrong with her just being tired of being evil and getting pwned by Claremazons. Oh, wait.

Psychotic episodes from fangirls. Eh. :D

[DeniseXfrost]

This is what happens when we have terrible retcon solo series about former evildoers. Psychotic episodes from fangirls.

You just need some medicine. *Slung hands Denise "Jean Pills"* There all better.
*Swallowing Jean pills* Now I have a question. Are you male or female? Lmao.

[Slung]

*Swallowing Jean pills* Now I have a question. Are you male or female? Lmao.

I'm all man. ;).

And we've had this conversation, I'm sure.

[DeniseXfrost]

Ok, thanks for clarifying :)
This is what happens when we have terrible retcon solo series about former evildoers. Psychotic episodes from fangirls.
Yeah, what was up with that wreck of a series anyway?

I don't see what was wrong with her just being tired of being evil and getting pwned by Claremazons. Oh, wait.

Don't tell me you guys were serious about what I said earlier. Her solo series was nothing like that!!!!! It's about her early years and has nothing to do with the hellfire club and yes she was pure evil back then. No excuse.

[Optic Rage!]

Psychotic episodes from fangirls.


Pot. Black

:p

I think Scott is making a mistake not telling the rest of the X-Men about X-Force, cause you know its going to come back and bite him in the ass.

However, if I was in his shoes or if I was an X-Man I would agree with X-Force's formation. We can argue about the morals of it al day long, but as Maria Hill said.

''When does it become Spider-Man's responsibility when Osborne has another rampage resulting in innocent people being killed''

The time for letting these people live to kill another day need's to stop.

I mean, its not as if the people X-Force are going after are people who don’t deserve to die.

Remember what the Purifiers did to those babies in Alaska?

And as for Scott being the Stark of the X-world, I have to disagree.

The majority of people disagreed with Starks actions, while it seems, at least in this thread anyways that the majority of people don’t think Scott is in the wrong.

[Omega Alpha]

I think Scott is making a mistake not telling the rest of the X-Men about X-Force, cause you know its going to come back and bite him in the ass.


Well, the thing is that there are no X-men anymore after the crossover. Though if the team was reassembled and he still didn't chose to tell wouldn't be smart, and I don't see why he couldn't tell them.

[Kage Kisaragi]

So, you're saying that Scott is acting for his own benefit? He has ulterior motives in everything?

Maybe he is, I mean what makes his method any better than Cables for protecting the Baby? The X-Men haven't even said what they are after the baby for, only that "It's a mutant, we should have it." or "It's a mutant, can't let Sinister get it." Scott hasn't said one thing about what he intends to do with the baby and what it means for him and his X-Men. At this point Bishop and Cable look like they are more capable in dealing with the baby and the problems it might cause or solve.

[Optic Rage!]

Well, the thing is that there are no X-men anymore after the crossover. Though if the team was reassembled and he still didn't chose to tell wouldn't be smart, and I don't see why he couldn't tell them.

I'm pretty sure that Scott reforms the X-Men again in Uncanny #500.

I was under the impression that he is keeping X-Force a secret from everybody including Emma. I hope they give him a good reason to validate this, because i am sure at this stage a lot of X-Men would agree with him.

However, i think his line of thought is that a lot of them would not, I cant see Kurt, Pete or Storm being happy about X-Foce and perhaps he dosent want to splinter the X-Men even further after MC.

I hope this is explored in X-Force.

Maybe he is, I mean what makes his method any better than Cables for protecting the Baby? The X-Men haven't even said what they are after the baby for, only that "It's a mutant, we should have it." or "It's a mutant, can't let Sinister get it." Scott hasn't said one thing about what he intends to do with the baby and what it means for him and his X-Men. At this point Bishop and Cable look like they are more capable in dealing with the baby and the problems it might cause or solve.

Your not serious are you? If you are then i dont think you know Scott Summers at all.

Not one single person has but the X-Men and their efforts before themselves as much as he has. I dont think i need any proof to suport this claim.

As for Cable's methods of protection, well so far they have been crap. The baby has only been with him a short time and it would of been killed twice already if it wasnt for outside interference from both X-Force and The Marauders. Bringing the baby to the future might work out ok, but even from the preview images it still looks like Cable is still puting the baby in direct danger.

And i think its fairly blatent that the X-Men are after the baby to protect it from the outside world, who for the most part want it dead.

I would rather have the many X-Men protect it then let Sinister get his hands on it. Who else is going to protect the baby?

And as for Bishop, if you thinks his methods of puting a bullet in the baby's head are good well then....i think we have completly different ideas of what good methods are.

[Luck911]

Did Cyclops put x-force together to group of assassins or proactive strike force strike force who are willing to kill if necessary? I think Cyclops said it already the most time sit back and wait for thing to happen and people have been sneaking up on the X-men and hitting them hard and he can't let that happen anymore

Cyclops could tell other X-men that are covert ops group of X-men but covert ops work better when less people know what is going on. Say if an X-men get capture a person could possible torture information out of them, but information can’t be given out if you don’t know. Yes he doing the same thing as Xavier and certain things come with leadership and eventually Cyclops will realize and he will stop being mad Xavier.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I'm pretty sure that Scott reforms the X-Men again in Uncanny #500.

I was under the impression that he is keeping X-Force a secret from everybody including Emma. I hope they give him a good reason to validate this, because i am sure at this stage a lot of X-Men would agree with him.

However, i think his line of thought is that a lot of them would not, I cant see Kurt, Pete or Storm being happy about X-Foce and perhaps he dosent want to splinter the X-Men even further after MC.

I hope this is explored in X-Force.


Storm is just as likely to have come to the conclusion that "you can't make a omelet without breaking a few eggs." too. Didn't she nearly kill Marrow in one of their first encounters by ripping a bomb from your chest? I know just recently in BP 33 she made that declaration that if anyone of the people she decided to help crossed her She would kill them. Theses aren't the actions of someone who is afraid of getting their hands dirty.

[Lukecage]

Maybe he is, I mean what makes his method any better than Cables for protecting the Baby? The X-Men haven't even said what they are after the baby for, only that "It's a mutant, we should have it." or "It's a mutant, can't let Sinister get it." Scott hasn't said one thing about what he intends to do with the baby and what it means for him and his X-Men. At this point Bishop and Cable look like they are more capable in dealing with the baby and the problems it might cause or solve.

Did you just say that Bishop, the guy getting ready to put a bullet in the kids head was better for the kid? Are you saying that killing a baby is a good thing?

Scott is trying to get the baby in order to protect it and determine what is different about this child that would allow it to be born. Remember, the X-Gene is supposed to be wiped out of all the remaining mutants and humans. Even from blood samples that were in storage. They are trying to save the mutant species. That's what they want with the baby. That's the whole purpose of the Endangered Species series.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Did you just say that Bishop, the guy getting ready to put a bullet in the kids head was better for the kid? Are you saying that killing a baby is a good thing?

Scott is trying to get the baby in order to protect it and determine what is different about this child that would allow it to be born. Remember, the X-Gene is supposed to be wiped out of all the remaining mutants and humans. Even from blood samples that were in storage. They are trying to save the mutant species. That's what they want with the baby. That's the whole purpose of the Endangered Species series.

and yet that has nothing to do with Scott other than "I think I know whats best." ... when like I just said, two other people have better information and motives for what they believe is best for the mutant species, both of which seem to have more knowledge or some kind of insight that supersedes Scott's.. Yes that includes Bishop who has no reason to believe he's wrong, but the act of killing the baby to save millions and prevent a future that is worse than anything the X-Men know in the present can't seem to register to a lot of people. It some how stops short in your vision to "Baby dying! this must be the most tragic thing ever." when its not.. 1 life as oppose to 1 million and 1 life as oppose to the countless lives of mutants that will be born in to concentration camps. There is no evidence that Scott's meddling will prevent Bishops future. Nay it actually sounds like the very same thing that causes it and maybe if Jamie had actually said something other than "Where is Bishop!?" which would only lead us to think that he is against preventing Bishops future, Scott might have gotten a clue. I digress though, Scott would never change his mind because like Xavier he thinks he knows whats best when in fact he knows nothing. He's just responding to whats going on around him.

So yes, I did just say that baby killing Bishop knows more about this situation than blindly reacting to circumstance Scott Summers.

[Toadman005]

Did you know Cyclops hasn't taken a crap since '98? Yeah, he's that much of a tight @$$.

[Optic Rage!]

Did you know that your the first person since about 5 minutes ago to make a joke about Scott being a tight ass?

:p

[Lukecage]

and yet that has nothing to do with Scott other than "I think I know whats best." ... when like I just said, two other people have better information and motives for what they believe is best for the mutant species, both of which with knowledge or some kind of insight that supersedes Scott's.. Yes that includes Bishop who has no reason to believe he's wrong, but the act of killing the baby to save millions and prevent a future that is worse than anything the X-Men know in the present can't seem to register to a lot of people. It some how stops short in your vision to "Baby dying! this must be the most tragic thing ever." when its not.. 1 life as oppose to 1 million and 1 life as oppose to the countless lives of mutants that will be born in to concentration camps. There is no evidence that Scott's meddling will prevent Bishops future. Nay it actually sounds like the very same thing that causes it and maybe if Jamie had actually said something other than "Where is Bishop!?" which would only lead us to think that he is against preventing Bishops future, Scott might have gotten a clue. I digress though, Scott would never change his mind because like Xavier he thinks he knows whats best when in fact he knows nothing. He's just responding to whats going on around him.

So yes, I did just say that baby killing Bishop knows more about this situation than blindly reacting to circumstance Scott Summers.


So you are saying that killing the baby is okay. :eek: Just trying to wrap my mind around it. So Scott is making an assumption that saving the baby will save mutant kind. But isn't Bishop also making the assumption that killing the baby will save mutantkind? And Scott did know what Jamie was thinking because he had Emma just link him to Jamie and transfer the information that way, because it was faster.

Scott is trying to save millions. The future of the mutant species, which is dying out because they are so few. Without an influx of new mutants they will die off. Cable appears to agree with Cyke since he is trying to save the child. The future is not written. Everything that happens in the past affects the future, so to just say that killing the baby will save millions is just as big a longshot because Bishop has no clue how it will affect the future. He's just reacting to circumstances of his childhood. He doesn't have the full picture of what happens and he's just as blind. But you did say that killing the baby was okay...

[Toadman005]

Did you know that your the first person since about 5 minutes ago to make a joke about Scott being a tight ass?

:p

Actually, no....I didn't read through all the pages. Sorry :(

[Kage Kisaragi]

So you are saying that killing the baby is okay. :eek: Just trying to wrap my mind around it. So Scott is making an assumption that saving the baby will save mutant kind. But isn't Bishop also making the assumption that killing the baby will save mutantkind? And Scott did know what Jamie was thinking because he had Emma just link him to Jamie and transfer the information that way, because it was faster.

Scott is trying to save millions. The future of the mutant species, which is dying out because they are so few. Without an influx of new mutants they will die off. Cable appears to agree with Cyke since he is trying to save the child. The future is not written. Everything that happens in the past affects the future, so to just say that killing the baby will save millions is just as big a longshot because Bishop has no clue how it will affect the future. He's just reacting to circumstances of his childhood. He doesn't have the full picture of what happens and he's just as blind. But you did say that killing the baby was okay...

1.) Yes I miracle I be, someone who can look passed the issue of "it's a baby!"
2.) No Bishop is not making an assumption, he actual has come from the Future that this child creates. The only real problem is, is that Cable also has some knowledge that we don't know about but seems to know that the child is indeed a savior, how so we don't know yet, maybe Cable will divulge that info to Xavier or maybe Xavier will come to some conclusion after seeing what Cable has to show him. The fact of the matter is Scott is only basing what he is doing on the assumption that since the baby is the first mutant born since M day, that it is some how key to the more mutants in the future without first examining what this might mean for mutants in said future. It's obvious that this mutant isn't going to give birth to a couple 100 thousand different strands of mutants and repopulate the race. Bishop also says in the future that he is very much aware he might not be born as well as other mutants if that child died but felt that, that would have been better.
3.) He knew what Jamie knew in the sense that Bishop was most likely the person trying to kill the baby, they made no acknowledgment that Scott was aware of what kid Bishop told Jamie in terms of the future of mutant kind. I mean seriously if you knew that the mutants of the future were all doomed to concentration camps where they were treated like something less than human and only slightly better than animals because of a baby whom the good guys of the past got.. then why chase after it?
4.) Getting the baby doesn't save millions, it kills 1 million people in the future, and dooms whatever mutants of the future to concentration camps in Bishops future. The only difference here is that Cable is also from the future and its different because of the baby, for him its a future worth saving while for Bishop its one worth destroying. So again it comes back to who's future is the one this child will bring about? Cables or Bishops.. Even I admit neither of them seems wrong at this point but I don't see Cables future being presented in this story.
5.) That doesn't really seem to concern the mutants to much because I don't see them procreating at all, and the notion that Beast came up with of "there isn't enough genetic material to repopulate the variety needed amongst our species is kind of silly. Then again, maybe this child has some kind of mutant power to make people into mutants because thats the only reason why I could see why this particular child is no necessary in revitalizing an entire race.
6.) Bishop knows as it has been pointed out in his future that a Mutant Messiah caused the deaths of 1,000,000 million humans. (how this comes about we can only guess.) but we do know that because of this the government reacts by putting all mutants in concentration camps and stripes them of basic liberties as well as marking them for life as mutants. So this is the reason why Bishop feels what he must do must come to pass, it doesn't matter if Scott or everyone else thinks that it might not be the case, we distinctively know somehow 1,000,000 humans do die because of a mutant messiah, one that is being linked to this child and even if Bishop is wrong and his future doesn't change that just means that more mutants are gonna be born because 1,000,000 humans still die in his future.

[Lukecage]

1.) Yes I miracle I be, someone who can look passed the issue of "it's a baby!"
2.) No Bishop is not making an assumption, he actual has come from the Future that this child creates. The only real problem is, is that Cable also has some knowledge that we don't know about but seems to know that the child is indeed a savior, how so we don't know yet, maybe Cable will divulge that info to Xavier or maybe Xavier will come to some conclusion after seeing what Cable has to show him. The fact of the matter is Scott is only basing what he is doing on the assumption that since the baby is the first mutant born since M day, that it is some how key to the more mutants in the future without first examining what this might mean for mutants in said future. It's obvious that this mutant isn't going to give birth to a couple 100 thousand different strands of mutants and repopulate the race. Bishop also says in the future that he is very much aware he might not be born as well as other mutants if that child died but felt that, that would have been better.
3.) He knew what Jamie knew in the sense that Bishop was most likely the person trying to kill the baby, they made no acknowledgment that Scott was aware of what kid Bishop told Jamie in terms of the future of mutant kind. I mean seriously if you knew that the mutants of the future were all doomed to concentration camps where they were treated like something less than human and only slightly better than animals because of a baby whom the good guys of the past got.. then why chase after it?
4.) Getting the baby doesn't save millions, it kills 1 million people in the future, and dooms whatever mutants of the future to concentration camps in Bishops future. The only difference here is that Cable is also from the future and its different because of the baby, for him its a future worth saving while for Bishop its one worth destroying. So again it comes back to who's future is the one this child will bring about? Cables or Bishops.. Even I admit neither of them seems wrong at this point but I don't see Cables future being presented in this story.
5.) That doesn't really seem to concern the mutants to much because I don't see them procreating at all, and the notion that Beast came up with of "there isn't enough genetic material to repopulate the variety needed amongst our species is kind of silly. Then again, maybe this child has some kind of mutant power to make people into mutants because thats the only reason why I could see why this particular child is no necessary in revitalizing an entire race.
6.) Bishop knows as it has been pointed out in his future that a Mutant Messiah caused the deaths of 1,000,000 million humans. (how this comes about we can only guess.) but we do know that because of this the government reacts by putting all mutants in concentration camps and stripes them of basic liberties as well as marking them for life as mutants. So this is the reason why Bishop feels what he must do must come to pass, it doesn't matter if Scott or everyone else thinks that it might not be the case, we distinctively know somehow 1,000,000 humans do die because of a mutant messiah, one that is being linked to this child and even if Bishop is wrong and his future doesn't change that just means that more mutants are gonna be born because 1,000,000 humans still die in his future.


Again, all assumptions. Bishop doesn't know that anything he does will change the future of mutantkind. He's taking a blind shot in the dark. Everything they are all doing in based on the belief that they are trying to save the future of mutants. The only difference is that Bishop is willing to kill this child to do it. And you are also forgetting that Cable has a different future so we can't say that 1,000,000 humans die. Two different futures, two different outcomes. You're basing this all on just that one future, not on the possibly different future of Cable. Maybe this child is the mutant messiah that fosters a brighter future for mutants and humanity, but you are so willing to just kill the child off to stave off a possible future that may never come.

Cyclops is making decisions based on things he can control. Secure the baby, find out if there is something genetically different with the child which may help to reset the mutant gene. And possible offer hope that mutants may survive. Nah, let's just kill the child without finding a way to save the future.

[theardri]

I never did. I said the kids died under Scott's care.


Oh, I'm totally cool with the Purifiers biting. But that's not why the X-Men were created. X-Men don't kill.

Sure it's been said but as the byline for Xforce says "These are not Xmen"

Oh and Xmen DO kill, Logan's an Xman, X-23 is an Xman, they have killed, and in uniform.

Cyke is taking a realistic approach to it. Any good leader knows sometimes you have to be a bastard! It's not about being popular or fair but JUST. IF Xforce could have taken out the Scarlet Witch before she went bonkers (again) and House of M'd every one, it would have been better. What we got was Xavier screwing about, and Magneto not having a set (till too late).

Indeed the Purifiers would be the main target for a team like XForce, as sending them to prison will do what?

[jarrod]

X-Men kill, but they don't murder. There's a distinction there, and it's going to bite Cyke in the ass eventually. Hopefully Rahne's the "distinction". ;)

[Toadman005]

Hell, Cyclops has killed before. EVERY damn X-man has probably killed someone at some point and time.

[Red Lotus]

Sure it's been said but as the byline for Xforce says "These are not Xmen"

Oh and Xmen DO kill, Logan's an Xman, X-23 is an Xman, they have killed, and in uniform.

Cyke is taking a realistic approach to it. Any good leader knows sometimes you have to be a bastard! It's not about being popular or fair but JUST. IF Xforce could have taken out the Scarlet Witch before she went bonkers (again) and House of M'd every one, it would have been better. What we got was Xavier screwing about, and Magneto not having a set (till too late).

Indeed the Purifiers would be the main target for a team like XForce, as sending them to prison will do what?

That’s not really fair. Xavier wanted to kill Wanda that’s why he brought the Avengers and X-men together.

[jarrod]

That’s not really fair. Xavier wanted to kill Wanda that’s why he brought the Avengers and X-men together.
Er, Xaiver never mentioned that... Emma was the first one to suggest killing Wanda and Logan backed her up. Xaiver couldn't help or restrain Wanda and he really didn't know what to do...

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

OMG, you guys can't possibly consider time-travelers have better intel than Cyke as an *argument* with an actual point???

They come from the freakin future and haven't shared a whole lot of intel. *OF COURSE* they know more. Geez.

[Red Lotus]

Er, Xaiver never mentioned that... Emma was the first one to suggest killing Wanda and Logan backed her up. Xaiver couldn't help or restrain Wanda and he really didn't know what to do...

Oh sorry my bad he brought them together to decide her fate after he and Strange couldn't help her which means he didn't think she could be help. If you want read between the lines the fact that Magneto wasn't really shocked that the X-men and Avengers were talking about killing her kind says maybe Xavier talked to him about it too.

[Slung]

Pot. Black


Hey now, I'm not a fan girl (I'm a guy) and I may be a fan of a character (who has unfortunately been treated poorly for the past five years or so), but my tongue is usually firmly in my cheek - which I find makes it harder for me to get my foot in my mouth (and sometimes back out). Psychotic episodes do not apply to fans of dead characters. We are much too sad to be psychotic.

And obviously anyone who has Scott and Emma forever as their byline is the pinnacle of mature and level-headed fan. :p

[Zero Hunter]

The thing about Cyclops is he has not been a very good leader at all for quite a while. Look at how many bad things have happened under his watch. All those depowered kids killed being one of the worst blunders. He let all those badguys hang around the mansion after M-Day with no more reason than "they are all mutants" and now some of those same people are back with the Mauruders trying to kill everyone. He let fricken Mystique into the X-Men for gods sake. She is a bloodthirsty killer and can't ever be trusted but he let her stick around anyway. There have been so many just plain dumb moves on his part ever since he took total control I wouldn't trust him to park a car right let alone guide the fate of my whole species.

Cyclops is a great battlefield general, but he has been a piss poor comander in chief.

Truth be told I think he is a Skrull and has been for a while now.

[Lukecage]

The thing about Cyclops is he has not been a very good leader at all for quite a while. Look at how many bad things have happened under his watch. All those depowered kids killed being one of the worst blunders. He let all those badguys hang around the mansion after M-Day with no more reason than "they are all mutants" and now some of those same people are back with the Mauruders trying to kill everyone. He let fricken Mystique into the X-Men for gods sake. She is a bloodthirsty killer and can't ever be trusted but he let her stick around anyway. There have been so many just plain dumb moves on his part ever since he took total control I wouldn't trust him to park a car right let alone guide the fate of my whole species.

Cyclops is a great battlefield general, but he has been a piss poor comander in chief.

Truth be told I think he is a Skrull and has been for a while now.


Well if that's the criteria, then no one is a good leader. Bad things happen under everyone's watch. That's how they write stories. Name me one leader where bad things didn't happen under their watch? These things happen because the writers are looking to advance a certain plot or agenda, leader be damned. They killed the students because they wanted to get rid of the extra characters, while creating a greater air of danger and raising the stakes. They had to set up the turn in Messiah Complex, so they let the bad guys in in order to initiate Messiah Complex. You can't just look at these things in a vacuum.

[cyclops2500]

I always wondered about Cyclops... does he actually have the authority to kick Xavier out of the school? He seems to be pretty quick at showing Xavier the door, but doesn't Xavier actually own the school?

Or did Scott and Emma buy it at one point or something? If that's not the case, then it seems to be that Xaiver should be able to stay there whenever he dam well pleases.

Xavier owns everything technically, but I'm sure Scott has some sort of power of attorney. Otherwise, how would they pay the bills when Charlie's off in space getting his groove on?

[Zero Hunter]

Well if that's the criteria, then no one is a good leader. Bad things happen under everyone's watch. That's how they write stories. Name me one leader where bad things didn't happen under their watch? These things happen because the writers are looking to advance a certain plot or agenda, leader be damned. They killed the students because they wanted to get rid of the extra characters, while creating a greater air of danger and raising the stakes. They had to set up the turn in Messiah Complex, so they let the bad guys in in order to initiate Messiah Complex. You can't just look at these things in a vacuum.

Well you can blame everything on writers. I am looking at this from the characters point of view. Eversince Cyclops has been in total charges things have just gotten worse and worse. I would like to see some of the other X-Men starting to question him on how he has been handeling things since eveerything has just been going to hell ever since Xavier left. Yeah there were alot of things that went wrong when Xavier was in charge, but not back to back to back like what has been going on under Cyclops.

[Red Lotus]

Well you can blame everything on writers. I am looking at this from the characters point of view. Eversince Cyclops has been in total charges things have just gotten worse and worse. I would like to see some of the other X-Men starting to question him on how he has been handeling things since eveerything has just been going to hell ever since Xavier left. Yeah there were alot of things that went wrong when Xavier was in charge, but not back to back to back like what has been going on under Cyclops.

I think the big thing is for most of the time when Xavier was in charge the school wasn't an open as it is now. Ever since his crazy sister outed him the school has had a big bullseye on it.

[Lukecage]

Well you can blame everything on writers. I am looking at this from the characters point of view. Eversince Cyclops has been in total charges things have just gotten worse and worse. I would like to see some of the other X-Men starting to question him on how he has been handeling things since eveerything has just been going to hell ever since Xavier left. Yeah there were alot of things that went wrong when Xavier was in charge, but not back to back to back like what has been going on under Cyclops.

What do you mean you can't blame it on the writers? Cyke doesn't write the stories. The writers do. Xavier himself has been the cause of most of the big problems the X-Men have had on many occasions. So you can't just say that everything has gone down hill since Cyke took over. He didn't cause M-Day. He didn't blow up any buses. He didn't pick the Uncanny team, Rogue did. And the X-Men voted to let Mystique in to the mansion. That was no arbitrary decision by him. In my opinion Xavier had it way easier thatn Cyclops. He has to overcome M-Day, Purifiers, O.N.E., S.H.I.E.L.D., Vulcan, Marauders, Reavers, and the X-Men being outed all at the same time trying to protect the younger students at the mansion.

The simple fact is that bad things happen when anyone is in charge. If they didn't we'd be reading about the Adventures of the Care Bears.