Mutant League 01/17/2008 AM Game 8: Dipset Byrd Gang vs. Shyft

[mattbib]

Greeting fight fans! Welcome to the second fight of the day!

Please review the rules on voting here (http://www.geocities.com/mattbib/mutantleague2008rules.html).

And now on to our fight...

In the first corner we have Dipset Byrd Gang's WE tha BEESSSTTTTT:
Professor X, Magneto (3), Collective Man, Havok, Cannonball

vs

In the other corner is Shyft's (Dis)Loyalty:
Sub-Mariner, Quicksilver, Nightcrawler, Celeste Cuckoo, Spider-Woman, Fever Pitch, Cerise


Both participants have submitted strategies:

Please do not post or vote until both strategies have been posted and read.

[mattbib]

This is a very formidible team. The biggest threats are Namor, Quicksilver, Nightcrawler Celeste. They will be taken out first.


Pre-Strike Plans

Some of my team will take the defensive and others will take offensive. I have multi major multitaksers in Collective Man, MAgs and Xavier. They will do the most damage and protect the team. Cannonball and Havok wil provide resistance. Al ot of the opposing team respects Mags NAd Xavier becuase they are the elder statesmen.

Phase 1 This happens as soon as the much starts and at the same time.

Xavier-Xavier will psi-link with tthe whole team and protect anyone from celeste cuckoo. Her Tp doesnt stand a chance vs ole Chuck. HE will also take overpower celeste cuckoo mind by turning against her teammates or put her to sleep. Either way is no longer a threat. He will also focus on Quicksilver and Namor and mess with their mind to throw them off their game. Quicksilver will probably launch at Mags or Xabier first to take them out the battle. Xavier is a telepath of the highest order and he should cause Namor and Quicksilver some problems. If Celeste Cuckoo is taken over by Xavier she with be helping out messing with people's minds. Xavier is a multitasker and very skilled with his power. So pullng off these feats should not be a problem. Xavier is in Mags forcefield. Xavier knowing Nightcrawler's respect for him will be scanning for Nightcralwer. When he gets a bid on him he will put him to sleep.

Magneto-Mags sheilds his teammates in his powerful forefield. He should be quick enough to block Quicksilver or Namor. HE spees towards the other team in his focwe bubble. As he is doing this he starts to mss the the iron in Namor's and Jessica Drews blood. This should stop Spider Woman from using her phremone powers. This should slow Namor down.He sees everything in the wave lengths. He starts to throw buildings at the opposing team to cause distractions. Quicksilver should be distracted by either Xavier and Celeste. He also should be a little hesitant to try and defeat his father. Mags will use this against Pietro. He will slow down the use of his mutant powers. And wrap him up in metal and slam him around until he is out the battle. After this Mags will attack Cerise, Spider-Woman, Fever Pitch and Namor. All attacks from Fever Pitch and Spider-Woman.

Cannonball-Havok and 1 collective Man hop on cannonball as he expands his force field to protect them. He rockets towards Namor at his highest speed and collide with him. With Namor already being distracted by Mags, Xavier and Cuckoo. Cannonball has bested Gladitor before. HE does the same tactics to the overconfident Namor as he is boasting. Istats flying him into buildings and things. IT will be a long battle either way Namor is either being contained or out the battle. Havok and Collective jump off and attack the over team.

Collective Man-Collective Man Spilts into a giant 15 collective man and the other hops a ride with Cannonball to attack the opposing team. Collective jumps off and splits into 25 regular collective men. THey attack Cerise Fever Pitch and Spider-man. And Nightcralwer if Xavier didn't take him outt ANd either defeat them or keep them occupied. The giant 15 Collective Man starts throwing buildings and stomping the ground to distract the oppoing team. If some how Spider-woman tries to take control or Nightcralwer tries to teleport collective man he will split up into other collectiv men so he can't be controlled or taking away. He goes to help out Cannonball vs NAmor.

Havok-Havok hops on with annonball and is protected by his forceield. He starts blasing at the opposing opposing team. He is after Fever Pitch and Cerise. They should all be disracted by Xavier, Celeste or Colelctive Man. They should be easy pickings for Havok. He uses concentrated porful focused blasts. To take out the opposing teams. He is very skilled in using his powers. HE just keeps blasing until the other team is taking out.


Phase 2

With Xavier, Mags and Collective Man distracting everyone. The rest of the team provide cleanup and wipe out the opposing team.

They enjoy their battle and advance to the next rd.

[mattbib]

Phase 1

Celeste Cuckoo
Wary of the effect of Professor X's mental abilities, Celeste uses her own non-too shabby mental powers to shield the team. Whilst she may not be as powerful a psy as Professor X, she should be able to keep the team protected for the few seconds it will take...

Quicksilver
For Quicksilver to race his way over to Xavier. Never one to think about the safety and health of his foes, Quicksilver unleashes a flurry of blows against Xavier, giving the man a vicious super-speed beating. With his punches coming thick and f ast, Xavier's concentration will quickly be broken. Leaving him in a battered state, Quicksilver dashes away.

Nightcrawler
As quickly as Quicksilver headed for Xavier, our dashing Blue cavalier Nightcrawler teleports right above Magneto, pulling off his helmet and throwing it in the air, where upon Fever Pitch obliges to turn the helmet into slag.

Namor
Our Prince of the seven seas heads straight for Collective Man, with Cerise in tow. Namor has on several occasions been shown as possessing the strength to defeat the Hulk. He uses it here, and also employs the aid of Cerise, who crafts him a set of gauntlets and a helmet from her light construct powers. Namor is many times stronger more agile and more durable than Collective Man. However, Collective Mans ability to call upon the strength of 40 of his compatriots is nothing to sniff at. As soon as Namor takes a hit which feels like Collective Man has powered up, h e will take to the skies, zipping down to land quick hard punches and kicks. Collective Mans powers tire him considerably, and as soon as he begins to wear out, Namor descends again to deliver the victory blow.

Cerise
After crafting Namor his armour pieces, Cerise will locate Havok. With no ability to fly, Havok will most likely still be on the ground. If this is the case, Cerise will trap him within a dome of her Light Constructs. There is no doubt that with concentrated effort Havok will be able to break out of this dome, but Cerise's role is simply to keep him contained. Having once kept a whole Sentinel contained and afloat within one of her bubbles, she should be able to hold him for some time.

Fever Pitch and Spider Woman
Both our fliers head for Cannonball. Invincible within his blast shield, Fever Pitch and Spider Woman will be aiming to keep him occupied for as long as possible. While neither can hur t Cannonball, they can both fly in tow with him, keeping him occupied with long range gouts of flame/venom blasts. Spiderwoman will be flying close range to Cannonball, giving off large amounts of pheromones, urging him to lower his blast shield.

Phase 2

Celeste & Nightcrawler
As soon as Magneto's helmet is off, Celeste will mentally bombard his brain with a psychic assault. Aiming to switch off his powers, she will basically fully assault Magneto's mental faculties. At the same time Nightcrawler will use his expert fighting skills to try and take out Magneto. Between the mental assault and Nightcrawler's attack, Magneto should go down.

Quicksilver & Namor
The ultimate arrogant duo will race over to Cerise and Havok, where Cerise will no doubt be struggling to contain Havok. Suddenly dropping the barrier, Cerise will back away. Quicksilver will speed in from an opp osite direction to which Havok is firing, and deliver a sucker punch. To avoid being hit by an omni-directional blast, Quicksilver will zip in and out delivering blows, and Namor will keep to the skies, diving in at . With Quicksilver moving at blurring speeds, and Namor often shown to have super-sonic reactions http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9045/namorfeat34ek.gif these two should be able to avoid Havok's powerful blasts and subdue him, for despite his immense energy wielding power, he is physically only human.

Fever Pitch & Spider Woman & Cerise
Cerise joins these two in keeping Cannonball subdued. Cerise will create a series of light construct walls in front of Cannonball, distracting him from fighting. The aim of all three is still keeping Cannonball as busy as possible, and Spider Woman has been continuously bombarding him with Pheromones. By now the desire to drop his blast shield will be quite str ong.

Phase 3
Within his blast shield, even Namor would have no chance of hurting Cannonball. However with the rest of his team down, he's in trouble. Celeste will add her mental message to drop the blast shield. As soon as he does, Spider Woman and Fever Pitch will both hit Sam with ranged attacks, after which Namor will fly in and Kurt will teleport onto Sam's back to deliver the finishing blows. (dis)Loyalty emerge victorious.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

Professor X should have no problem overpowering Celeste telepathically and finding Namor and take him out the battle.

Mags has his shield up just for quicksilver. His shield is up damn all the timelike it is just part of his body.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

Plus Mags has Teleepathic resistance witoout the helmet off sheer will power alone.

[Josef F.]

I'm. .. I'm confused.
I didn't know that's how collective man worked
:confused:

I thought that it was 5 people that could merge into a giant man-beast thing
(I'm not feeling eloquent today)

Anyone gonna research that for debate terms?

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

Collective Man can have up to 40 different collective men.

[Josef F.]

Collective Man can have up to 40 different collective men.

With that point cleared up nicely.

Magneto's permanent forcefield?
Any reference for that?

(I'll get on to questioning shyft in a sec, I aint just picking on you lol)

:D

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

I mean like that I meant impenatrable forcefield because it never really has been surpassed.

[pryde15]

From what I know about Magneto, the helmet added no psychic shielding, that was a retcon that they did solely because of the movies.


I would have to find the quote from another board, since one of my friends over there is like the Magneto Guru but I am pretty sure that even without the helmet, his mind is almost impossible to penetrate.

[Shyft]

Collective Man can't split himself into multiple people...he isnt Multiple Man.. he can be the 5 brothers, or the one person, with the strength of 40 chinamen.

Proff X cant psy-link, take over Celeste Cuckoo, AND take out Namor And Quicksilver. he is powerful, but he cant multi-task to that extent.

How can Magneto slow down the uswe of Quicksilvers mutant powers?

[Josef F.]

I mean like that I meant impenatrable forcefield because it never really has been surpassed.

All good.
I'm still fence boy.
Neither are really jumping at me in supreme stakes.
I'll let some others thrash it out, and all that.
=]

[Brian M.]

Tough match.

Cuckoo vs Xavier...it's been argued many times before that medium level TP's can hold off Xavier/Rachel Grey/Emma type TP's for a brief second or so. Since Quicksilver lives in superspeed he could get there...but probably not before Magneto shields up...

Tough to think about. I do think Crawler/Cerise take out Magneto so that would lower the shield.

I tried doing the same move w/ Xavier last year, mindlink and then focus on two people at once and it was argued that he was stretched too thin. With Cuckoo attacking him while he tries to focus elsewhere...it's a decent arguement to think he'll be pushing it.

Still, I'll give it some time before I vote.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

During Austen's run on X-men Collective Man indeed did split up into like 40 different men.

Mags has shut of the use of the powers of X-force, X-men Gold and Blue and X-factor during Fatal Attractions. This was while he hold up Asteroid M.

Xavier is a psi of the highest order he is just messing with people's minds. How hard is that for someone with his TP abilities.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

HOW IS cELESTE Cuckoo a mid psi by herself?

[pryde15]

HOW IS cELESTE Cuckoo a mid psi by herself?

all 3 of the Cuckoos are fairly powerful by themselves, but not on the level of Emma, Rachel, and Xavier. Although Mindee did kick ass Sabretooth's ass in that one issue in Austen's run :D

[Harlock]

During Austen's run on X-men Collective Man indeed did split up into like 40 different men.

Do you happen to have an issue number or internet reference for that?

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

It Happened when the second Xorn was introduced. I have to find the issue number.

[Harlock]

It Happened when the second Xorn was introduced. I have to find the issue number.

That'll work, should be issue 159. I'll go dig and look. Thanks!

[Pach!]

HOW IS cELESTE Cuckoo a mid psi by herself?

One of the cuckoos was strong enough to distract several members of the Brotherhood including Exodus himself

[Mitsaso]

From what I know about Magneto, the helmet added no psychic shielding, that was a retcon that they did solely because of the movies.


I would have to find the quote from another board, since one of my friends over there is like the Magneto Guru but I am pretty sure that even without the helmet, his mind is almost impossible to penetrate.

I don't think so. At "Riot At Xavier's", the Omega Gang replicated Magneto's helmet and put it on Xavier to keep his telepathy from going out, so it surely works the other way too. Also, didn't Xavier mind-wipe Magneto many years back? If he was psi-immune anyway, then why would these happen and why would he wear a stupid-looking psi-shielding bucket on his head?:D

Novaya and I are still on the fence about this battle, we'll come to a definite decision later...;)

[pryde15]

I don't think so. At "Riot At Xavier's", the Omega Gang replicated Magneto's helmet and put it on Xavier to keep his telepathy from going out, so it surely works the other way too. Also, didn't Xavier mind-wipe Magneto many years back? If he was psi-immune anyway, then why would these happen and why would he wear a stupid-looking psi-shielding bucket on his head?:D

Novaya and I are still on the fence about this battle, we'll come to a definite decision later...;)

He is from the 40's, he grew up in a different time, or some lame excuse for the bucket head lol, I am STILL looking for the post, I have gone through 40 pages and I am getting discouraged, blah I will just say I don't care lol.

[Mitsaso]

He is from the 40's, he grew up in a different time, or some lame excuse for the bucket head lol, I am STILL looking for the post, I have gone through 40 pages and I am getting discouraged, blah I will just say I don't care lol.

Well yeah but what I meant is that we know for a fact that:
1) People have mind-wiped him before so he's not psi-immune and
2) His bucket is psi-shielding

So the fact that Mags is using the helmet as TP protection is pretty obvious.:)

[pryde15]

Well yeah but what I meant is that we know for a fact that:
1) People have mind-wiped him before so he's not psi-immune and
2) His bucket is psi-shielding

So the fact that Mags is using the helmet as TP protection is pretty obvious.:)

:( I blame this mishap on the flu.

[Novaya Havoc]

STRONG STRATEGIES, but we tipped toward Shyft.

Not too keen on how easily Magneto was taken out.
But less keen on how Xavier was utilized.

Again, too many simultaneous attacks all around for our liking. For Byrd, we're expecting Xavier to psi-shield, possess Celeste, and attack others, while Collective man is splitting, jumps on to Cannonball WITH Havok (!) and charges to take out Namor all right away
For Shyft, he has Celest block (and admits it's a slight, temporary buffer), has a speedster charge, and a teleporter teleport.

I know the "first strike" is critical in these games, but it's called the first STRIKE and not first STRIKES for a reason. For me, Shyft's just sound more plausible.

Magneto is a big factor. While we think Shyft takes care of him way too easily and also doesn't consider Xavier may just overpower Celeste regardless (making Magneto more of a chore), Byrd doesn't win any points by having Magneto go directly for the iron-in-the-blood trick. He's done it, sure. It's not something I'd see him doing as a first strike move. Shield or attack, but the iron in the blood stretches his credibility.

He's taking up 3 of your character points, Byrd -- for the love of God, USE him as such!

So while we think it shouldn't have been that easy for Shyft to take out Magneto, we don't think Magneto was used in a strong enough way to convince us that he wouldn't.

As for the rest:
Shyft uses more creative teamwork, and acknowledge's all of Byrd's team's capabilities and powers, dealing with them accordingly.
Byrd really only gives focus on the Cuckoo (who I think is a poor first choice) and Namor. Cerise and Fever Pitch are considered afterthoughts.

It's VERY CLOSE, but that's why we went with Shyft.

Byrd -- I totally went into this thinking you'd have it in the bag, as an aside. But again -- if Maggie's going to take 3 slots, by all that is holy, USE him as such! HUGE magnet shields! Rips the ores out of the earth and throws them at the team! Something majah! I know you did the iron in the blood, but that just doesn't dazzle me. Use yo' Magneto!

Kudos on both teams, though.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

NH right on for the advice. I did use the stop the mutants powers attack he uses.

My moves happened right after the other not all at the same time for each character.

[Flâneur]

With no ability to fly, Havok will most likely still be on the ground.

While this is irrelevant to this match, I just thought I'd note that Havok can fly.

[worstblogever]

During Austen's run on X-men Collective Man indeed did split up into like 40 different men.

Mags has shut of the use of the powers of X-force, X-men Gold and Blue and X-factor during Fatal Attractions. This was while he hold up Asteroid M.

Xavier is a psi of the highest order he is just messing with people's minds. How hard is that for someone with his TP abilities.

Um... maybe the best way to get votes isn't to defend stuff by continuity that Austen wrote.

Just sayin'.

[pryde15]

Um... maybe the best way to get votes isn't to defend stuff by continuity that Austen wrote.

Just sayin'.

You speak the truth, using the very powerful mode Mindee, did not win me votes...

[lockerogue]

From what I know about Magneto, the helmet added no psychic shielding, that was a retcon that they did solely because of the movies.


I would have to find the quote from another board, since one of my friends over there is like the Magneto Guru but I am pretty sure that even without the helmet, his mind is almost impossible to penetrate.

I know who your talking about. The fanatic. :p

[Shyft]

Can anyone confirm/deny Collective Man can do a Madrox? I havent seen it written about him ANYWHERE. Also Dipset has him split into 15 GIANT Collective Men? Does Collective Man have size-altering AS WELL as duplication powers? Not as far as i was aware.

I know i took out Magneto a little quickly, but he HAS been shown as being vulnerable to psi attacks, his two protections from such (his helmet and Xavier) are taken out, and he is having to deal with a mental assault AND Nightcrawler's pretty excellent physical skills.

I still dont accept that Magneto has the power to switch off other's mutant abilities. Where would the control of metal come into this? He isnt Leech.

Dipset commits the taboo of writing what MY team is doing - at No point do i have Namor just standing around boasting, prime target for a surprise attack.

Magneto has Pietro "wrapped in metal and slammed around" where does this metal come from?

[venuscameback]

STRONG STRATEGIES, but we tipped toward Shyft.

Not too keen on how easily Magneto was taken out.
But less keen on how Xavier was utilized.

Again, too many simultaneous attacks all around for our liking. For Byrd, we're expecting Xavier to psi-shield, possess Celeste, and attack others, while Collective man is splitting, jumps on to Cannonball WITH Havok (!) and charges to take out Namor all right away
For Shyft, he has Celest block (and admits it's a slight, temporary buffer), has a speedster charge, and a teleporter teleport.

I know the "first strike" is critical in these games, but it's called the first STRIKE and not first STRIKES for a reason. For me, Shyft's just sound more plausible.

Magneto is a big factor. While we think Shyft takes care of him way too easily and also doesn't consider Xavier may just overpower Celeste regardless (making Magneto more of a chore), Byrd doesn't win any points by having Magneto go directly for the iron-in-the-blood trick. He's done it, sure. It's not something I'd see him doing as a first strike move. Shield or attack, but the iron in the blood stretches his credibility.

He's taking up 3 of your character points, Byrd -- for the love of God, USE him as such!

So while we think it shouldn't have been that easy for Shyft to take out Magneto, we don't think Magneto was used in a strong enough way to convince us that he wouldn't.

As for the rest:
Shyft uses more creative teamwork, and acknowledge's all of Byrd's team's capabilities and powers, dealing with them accordingly.
Byrd really only gives focus on the Cuckoo (who I think is a poor first choice) and Namor. Cerise and Fever Pitch are considered afterthoughts.

It's VERY CLOSE, but that's why we went with Shyft.


You cover a lot of my thinking, Novaya, in voting for Shyft. I think Namor is under-estimated here too

[venuscameback]

Can anyone confirm/deny Collective Man can do a Madrox? I havent seen it written about him ANYWHERE. Also Dipset has him split into 15 GIANT Collective Men? Does Collective Man have size-altering AS WELL as duplication powers? Not as far as i was aware.

Collective Man can't pull a Madrox. At no point has he ever been known to duplicate a la Madrox

The original TCM was five guys who could join together to form one giant TCM. Nowadays he's 40 guys who can join together to form larger figures, be that one giant consisting of up to 40 TCM or, presumably several smaller giant TCM eg 4 giant TCM consisting of 10 TCM each.

I know because I used him in a previous ML and had to research him pretty carefully. There could well be more than 40 individual TCM, but that was an upper limit Matt Bib decided on, which is fair because it's roughly as many as have eve rbeen seen at one time.

[mattbib]

Congratulations, Shyft! You advance to Game 12 where you'll face off against Mitsaso & Novaya Havoc next Thursday, January 24.

Good job, Dipset Byrd Gang, you move to the lower bracket where next Thursday you'll fight for survival against CyberHubbs & fitditz.

Good luck!