Where is New Genesis?

[Shellhead]

Right after Crisis on Infinite Earths, supposedly there was just one reality, the DCU. A short time later, Mister Miracle joined the Justice League, making it clear that the Fourth World characters were still around. Later, it was apparent that their homeworlds, New Genesis and Apokolips were still around. Where? An alternate reality? How could that be if all the other realities were destroyed? And how about now? Which one of the 52 realities contains the Fourth World planets? I understand that the Source Wall now separates the 52 realities, but isn't that Source Wall also accessible to the Fourth World?

[Sean Walsh]

The New Gods have basically always existed in a dimension seperate from the rest of the DCU (and the multiverse) - which is why the original Crisis did not affect the New Gods whatsoever. I wanna say it was put in its own special dimension in reverence to Kirby, or at least to seperate these GODS from the rest of the regular multiverse. Past New Gods stories have actually featured "tears" in the space around NG and Apokolips, which reinforced the fact that it's in its own place.

The only way you can get to the Fourth World is thru a Boom Tube or some form of teleportation.

I don't recall how the Source Wall is accessed - thru DCU space or thru Fourth World space, but it might be DC's contention that it's thru DC space, now that there are essentially 52 of them. And as far as I know DC hasn't explained why there are suddenly 52 Walls.

[Samuraixsithlord]

The New Gods live in an alternite dimension. Like how Mount Olympus if a seperate dimension that the Greek Gods live in, same thing for the Asgardians in Asgard, and the Egyptians in the Celestrial Ark

[Sean Walsh]

The New Gods live in an alternite dimension. Like how Mount Olympus if a seperate dimension that the Greek Gods live in, same thing for the Asgardians in Asgard, and the Egyptians in the Celestrial Ark

Only the New Gods are.........y'know.......real... :D

[BoosterBronze]

Second Star to the right and straight on till morning.

Only the second star turns out to be the flamepits of Apokolips!!!!

[DonC]

Second Star to the right and straight on till morning.


I was going to say the exact same thing. Wouldn't it be funny to see Darkseid dressed as Tinker Bell?

[rwe1138]

Not only that, but the inhabitants of the Fourth World are giants compared to us. Whenever someone uses a Boom Tube, it automatically makes them the same size as the other side.

[Joe Acro]

If it's in its own dimension, how does that explain alternate counterparts such as New Gods in Elseworlds stories or the New Dogs of the recent Captain Carrot mini?

[Deadpooligan]

If it's in its own dimension, how does that explain alternate counterparts such as New Gods in Elseworlds stories or the New Dogs of the recent Captain Carrot mini?

I suppose dimensions would be part of that universe.

Earth-26 is the Earth of Captain Carrot, which would thus have New Genesis-26 and Apokolips-26 in it, located behind some kind of dimensional wall.

But not a dimensional wall that leads into the multiverse. One that leads to the Fourth World.

[Michael P]

The New Gods have basically always existed in a dimension seperate from the rest of the DCU (and the multiverse)

I wouldn't say "separate from," but "transcendent to." The Fourth World of the New Gods is a congruent reality that exists on a higher spiritual plane. It overlaps and permeates all multiverses, like a marinade on a grilled chicken. (Sorry, I'm hungry.)

[Ungenesis]

But how does that explain multiversal occurences of the New Gods and their different adventures/histories? For example, I recall reading a Superman Elseworlds where Darkseid kidnapped him as a baby, Scott Free inherited Metron's Mobius Chair and Lightray died much ealier than Countdown. How can these events have occured, even in a parallel universe, if there's only one Fourth World spread across the whole Multiverse? Surely there must be divergent versions of the New Gods.

[dancj]

I'd definitely see the New Gods' dimension being part of the same universe as the main DCU

[Syphre Zero]

There is only one Fourth World, much as there was only one "pocket dimension" that Alexander Luthor, Superboy-Prime, and Earth-2 Superman and Lois escaped into in the aftermath of COIE. Pocket and/or parallel dimensions do not appear to have Multiversal counterparts; can you imagine the headache trying to explain that the COIE Four escaped into the pocket dimension that existed parallel to Earth-51 instead of Earth-S? In the same way, there is only one Fourth World - no Earth-12 New Genesis or Earth-8 Apokolips. This is further reinforced by Darkseid's observance of the events of 52 - he seems to have an eye on more than just what's happening on New Earth, as though his field of vision might not be limited to one universe.

As for the Source Wall, the current explanation seems to be that each universe of the Multiverse has its own Source Wall, which serves in part as a delimiter between them. Prior to Infinite Crisis, it appeared that the Source Wall was accessible from DCU space - Superman's been there a couple times, as have Kyle Rayner and Hal Jordan (as Parallax during Final Night).

[Shellhead]

There is only one Fourth World, much as there was only one "pocket dimension" that Alexander Luthor, Superboy-Prime, and Earth-2 Superman and Lois escaped into in the aftermath of COIE. Pocket and/or parallel dimensions do not appear to have Multiversal counterparts; can you imagine the headache trying to explain that the COIE Four escaped into the pocket dimension that existed parallel to Earth-51 instead of Earth-S? In the same way, there is only one Fourth World - no Earth-12 New Genesis or Earth-8 Apokolips. This is further reinforced by Darkseid's observance of the events of 52 - he seems to have an eye on more than just what's happening on New Earth, as though his field of vision might not be limited to one universe.

As for the Source Wall, the current explanation seems to be that each universe of the Multiverse has its own Source Wall, which serves in part as a delimiter between them. Prior to Infinite Crisis, it appeared that the Source Wall was accessible from DCU space - Superman's been there a couple times, as have Kyle Rayner and Hal Jordan (as Parallax during Final Night).

We've seen that the Kingdom Come storyline has taken place on of the 52 Earths, and that storyline included an appearance by Avia, the daughter of Mister Miracle and Big Barda. So unless she is a character that DC has been keeping hidden all these years, that represents at least one alternative version of the Fourth World which is in continuity.

[scratchie]

The New Gods have basically always existed in a dimension seperate from the rest of the DCU (and the multiverse) I always thought that New Genesis and Apokalips were just two far-off planets in our universe. Was there anything in Kirby's version to indicate that this wasn't the case?

[Sean Walsh]

I always thought that New Genesis and Apokalips were just two far-off planets in our universe. Was there anything in Kirby's version to indicate that this wasn't the case?

The Fourth World is basically the "spawn" of Ragnarok - the Third World is generally accepted to be Asgard. And since (IIRC) Asgard existed in a different dimension, so would New Genesis and Apokalips I gather...

[Sean Walsh]

But how does that explain multiversal occurences of the New Gods and their different adventures/histories? For example, I recall reading a Superman Elseworlds where Darkseid kidnapped him as a baby, Scott Free inherited Metron's Mobius Chair and Lightray died much ealier than Countdown. How can these events have occured, even in a parallel universe, if there's only one Fourth World spread across the whole Multiverse? Surely there must be divergent versions of the New Gods.

Simple:

Back during the heyday of Elseworlds, there was no multiverse. They were basically just "What If?" stories.

But eventually Elseworlds was retired....and the reason was that the multiverse returned. A few Elseworlds have been incorporated into the current day DCU/multiverse, but not all. And Didio's even said these new Elseworlds universes aren't exactly the same as the old Elseworlds stories.

So KINGDOM COME Earth isn't the same exact one from the KINGDOM COME Elseworlds story- certain things did or didn't happen. I'll assume Scott, Barda and Avia's involvement (as well as Orion taking over Apokalips) in this new universe was one of those things that didn't happen.