Countdown 15 (Spoilers!)

[Ungenesis]

- Hyppolyta, Holly, and Harley draft Mary into their war against the 'Amazons'.

- Kyle and Ray save each other from being skewered by Power Ring, Dark Booster, and another unnamed female hero - an evil Liberty Belle, perhaps? - before Ray explains how he picked up Ray-51's work. Ray-51 had a genetic immunity to all disease, and faced off with a sentient virus with the same properties ("Morticoccus"). After JLA-51 met with a JSA from another reality, Ray-51 deduced that the Morticoccus may exist in other realities, then made plans to visit each Earth and innoculate one person against the disease. Ray-51 died before he could begin his work, so our Ray picked it up, and 'signed' his work each time with the Atom symbol.

- Monarch's troops gloat about their impending victory. Monarch tells them not to count their chickens before they hatch, and awaits the death of the Monitors before he celebrates.

- Superman Prime confronts Solomon and threatens to kill him if he doesn't lead him to his 'perfect Earth' (Does he ever stop whining?? Emoboy Prime... >_< ). He realizes that Solomon wants to die, and then says he'll grant his wish - but not until after he finds his Earth. Forerunner arrives to kill the Monitors but instead encounters Prime.

- Batman-51 interrogates Jason and explains how, after his Jason was killed by the Joker, he killed the Joker (and subsequently, all the other villains). JLA-51 came after Batman-51 but couldn't stop him - his 'Bat-Bunker' is impervious to magic, teleporters, x-ray vision, and power rings. Jason and Batman-51 then argue a bit before Jason leaves to 'do whatever it takes' to help his friends.

- Donna faces her dark counterpart again, knocks her out, and asserts her identity ("I'm Donna Troy, bitch. Donna. Troy.")

- Brother Eye - now the size of a city - has assimilated the Atomic Knights' armor, and is using Firestorm as a power source. Dr. Blank, Una, and Karate Kid discuss the dangers of Brother Eye assimilating New Gods tech (Boom Tubes in particular) and taking its battles to the stars.

- No Piper this week :(

- Doomsday's origin, as seen in Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey.

[matt_hatyber]

- Hyppolyta, Holly, and Harley draft Mary into their war against the 'Amazons'.

- Kyle and Ray save each other from being skewered by Power Ring, Dark Booster, and another unnamed female hero - an evil Liberty Belle, perhaps? - before Ray explains how he picked up Ray-51's work. Ray-51 had a genetic immunity to all disease, and faced off with a sentient virus with the same properties ("Morticoccus"). After JLA-51 met with a JSA from another reality, Ray-51 deduced that the Morticoccus may exist in other realities, then made plans to visit each Earth and innoculate one person against the disease. Ray-51 died before he could begin his work, so our Ray picked it up, and 'signed' his work each time with the Atom symbol.

- Monarch's troops gloat about their impending victory. Monarch tells them not to count their chickens before they hatch, and awaits the death of the Monitors before he celebrates.

- Superman Prime confronts Solomon and threatens to kill him if he doesn't lead him to his 'perfect Earth' (Does he ever stop whining?? Emoboy Prime... >_< ). He realizes that Solomon wants to die, and then says he'll grant his wish - but not until after he finds his Earth. Forerunner arrives to kill the Monitors but instead encounters Prime.

- Batman-51 interrogates Jason and explains how, after his Jason was killed by the Joker, he killed the Joker (and subsequently, all the other villains). JLA-51 came after Batman-51 but couldn't stop him - his 'Bat-Bunker' is impervious to magic, teleporters, x-ray vision, and power rings. Jason and Batman-51 then argue a bit before Jason leaves to 'do whatever it takes' to help his friends.

- Donna faces her dark counterpart again, knocks her out, and asserts her identity ("I'm Donna Troy, bitch. Donna. Troy.")

- Brother Eye - now the size of a city - has assimilated the Atomic Knights' armor, and is using Firestorm as a power source. Dr. Blank, Una, and Karate Kid discuss the dangers of Brother Eye assimilating New Gods tech (Boom Tubes in particular) and taking its battles to the stars.

- No Piper this week :(

- Doomsday's origin, as seen in Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey.


so prime hasnt kicked monarchs ass yet. dam i was hoping it would happen this week.

[Ha1fdime]

so the great disaster is a virus and the only cure is the atom? seriously wtf.

[Jack Zodiac]

so the great disaster is a virus and the only cure is the atom? seriously wtf.

Someone called it a while back. The virus that killed off everyone in the Kamandi-verse was the cause of his world's "Great Disaster," so I guess the disaster in Countdown is gonna involve the virus from the Kamandi-verse and Brother Eye's nanite virus dealie.

So, the Brother Eye stuff sounds like it's getting pretty interesting. I like the concept of it as an artificially intelligent villain that can create its own superhuman army, but I don't know how cool tying it into all the lame, forced "Great Disaster" stuff is.

But yeah, other than that, sounds like your typical Countdown issue. People whine, people die, and the plot inches on.

[Choppa]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.

I hope that Jason decides to reform because he sees what killing the Joker did to that Batman, and since his whole motivation for attacking Batman originally was because he didn't kill the Joker, he forgives him.

I think that makes the most sense and gives some closure to the initial story of his return.

[bfrank]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.



It was a much better line than that picking out the drapes nonsense.......

[Mr.50]

Alright can anyone tell me what the cover art had to do with the story though????????

Mr.50

[jv2k]

Once again DC completely ignores that the DCU Batman actually did try to kill Joker after Jason's death. Joker just pulled one of his trade mark "appears to have died but comes back later" tricks that he has been pulling since Batman 1.

Countdown is really starting to get interesting though.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.

I hope that Jason decides to reform because he sees what killing the Joker did to that Batman, and since his whole motivation for attacking Batman originally was because he didn't kill the Joker, he forgives him.

I think that makes the most sense and gives some closure to the initial story of his return.

Why would he forgive Batman? If anything, this earth is the ultimate vindication of Jason Todd's stances. You kill the villain and earth becomes paradise.

Yes, this Batman gave his soul but isn't that what heroes do?

[Choppa]

Alright can anyone tell me what the cover art had to do with the story though????????

Mr.50

Prime will turn out to save the day in the end, probably by fighting Monarch

Why would he forgive Batman? If anything, this earth is the ultimate vindication of Jason Todd's stances. You kill the villain and earth becomes paradise.

Yes, this Batman gave his soul but isn't that what heroes do?

Well he clearly didn't like this Batman. As for this Earth being a paradise, I don't think Jason really cared about that. He just wanted to know why Bruce didn't kill the joker and wanted the Joker dead. My point is that seeing the affect on this Batman makes Jason realize that his desire for revenge is pointless and won't give him what he wants.

[David Atkins]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.

I liked it. There's nothing wrong with a little corny when it accompanies a beatdown from Donna.

[ZNOP]

I liked it. There's nothing wrong with a little corny when it accompanies a beatdown from Donna.

Does Donna still have all of her "merged-multiverse" abilities? And, is she still sporting her black bodysuit with the pin point stars on it? I, really liked that outfit:D

[Superbeast]

I liked it. There's nothing wrong with a little corny when it accompanies a beatdown from Donna.

Donna Troy: Rick James/Chappelle Show fan.

so the great disaster is a virus and the only cure is the atom? seriously wtf.

I guess Leezle Pon isn't available for whatever reason.

[bfrank]

Why would he forgive Batman? If anything, this earth is the ultimate vindication of Jason Todd's stances. You kill the villain and earth becomes paradise.

Yes, this Batman gave his soul but isn't that what heroes do?

He had to kill more than one villain for that earth to become a "paradise".....

and, no, a hero does not become that which he hates........

[wes_rk]

man this was a great issue, I knew staying with the book was a good thing. I can't wait for next issue and what happens with Prime

[David Atkins]

Does Donna still have all of her "merged-multiverse" abilities? And, is she still sporting her black bodysuit with the pin point stars on it? I, really liked that outfit:D

I don't know. And yes. So do I. :cool:

[ZNOP]

I don't know. And yes. So do I. :cool:

Ya' know... Now that I, can't buy comics all the time the way I, uses to I have to rely on the discussion boards to keep abreast of what's going on nowadays. Yesterday (Late last night.) I, finally think I have caught up with Superboy/man-Prime's story. What a bummer of a life he experienced. But, don't get me wrong. It's not like he didn't know the difference between right from wrong. Although I, would -- in his defense claim temporary insanity. What I wonder now is... Where is he? Is his saga over now or what? I, also now know why he is Superior to Kal-El in physical abilities, or is he? Anyway, I, guess I want to know, if he would have taken out doomsday under similar circumstances not akin to the "Death of Superman" storyline? Note... I am taking into account his natural weaknesses. And, sans the solar suit(s)... Could SB/M Prime have taken out Doomsday? Yes, I know Kal-El died and was launched into the sun and all only to come back and go toe to toe with Doomsday. But, really could Prime take Doomsday out without all that drama?

[David Atkins]

Probably. Prime is being presented at a Superman++ power level, while Doomsday's own power levels have long since been downgraded. The current version would make a good start-of-the-book beat down for the Teen Titans.

Classic Doomsday was a plot device force of nature that couldn't really be hurt and only got stronger as the fight progressed. Still, at the power levels they're presenting Prime at (the way he destroyed Earth 15), I think Doomsday would be in waaaaaaaaaaaaay over his head. For at least the first round, depending on how much credit one gives the 'evolution' loophole that says Doomsday is supposed to come back to life unkillable by the previous means.

[worstblogever]

The "picking out drapes" line was worse than the Donna Troy as Rick James bit. I mean, even when he was Nathaniel Adam... or Captain Atom... do you think Monarch was really the interior design type? I'd picture him saying something more along the lines of a drill sergeant like, "Let's not all go ****ing ourselves off just yet." But maybe that's just me.

Anyone notice how over in Booster Gold this week, one of the alternate happenings in the background had Jason Todd as the Red Hood with a guy dressed up in the Red Robin outfit from Earth-51? Any thoughts on that?

[The Cool Thatguy]

He had to kill more than one villain for that earth to become a "paradise".....

and, no, a hero does not become that which he hates........

Yeah, Batman adopted Todd' kill policy and made the earth a paradise. His only sin, as far as Jason Todd is concerned, is not rushing head long and taking on two opposing armies. Real villain, their Bruce :rolleyes:

[Choppa]

Anyone notice how over in Booster Gold this week, one of the alternate happenings in the background had Jason Todd as the Red Hood with a guy dressed up in the Red Robin outfit from Earth-51? Any thoughts on that?

Yup and I'm not really surprised, Johns' books always have stuff in them that lead to bigger stories. Titans had stuff for IC for example.

The comment that the future beetle makes abuot him not knowing about these images could either mean that he's a fake or that the Red Robin thing won't last.

And that Starman pic had to be from the 90's. Lol at the "colors giving me a headache" line.

[octothorp]

Someone called it a while back. The virus that killed off everyone in the Kamandi-verse was the cause of his world's "Great Disaster," so I guess the disaster in Countdown is gonna involve the virus from the Kamandi-verse and Brother Eye's nanite virus dealie.

So, the Brother Eye stuff sounds like it's getting pretty interesting. I like the concept of it as an artificially intelligent villain that can create its own superhuman army, but I don't know how cool tying it into all the lame, forced "Great Disaster" stuff is.

But yeah, other than that, sounds like your typical Countdown issue. People whine, people die, and the plot inches on.

I think that might have been me. I've mentioned it here and a few other places as well. It seems plausible, but the twist shown (the Atom's involvement) doesn't match the reasons given in the Kamandi series and elsewhere. Also, to muddy the waters a bit, I do remember (I can't check on this, as I am at work presently) that a story relating to the Great Disaster storyline also mentioned a drug called Cortexin. Could Cortexin be a cure or immunization against Morticoccus? It was also mentioned as a partial reason for the humaniforming of the animals in Kamandi's world. Here's the kicker: the Cortexin/Great Disaster story, IIRC, was in an issue of Jimmy Olsen! Does anyone else have data or comments they'd like to add?

[Mulett]

Could that have been the JSA from the new Earth-2?

[Ungenesis]

It's unspecified. Could have been from Earth-2 or any of several other multiple Earths that had a Justice Society.

[David Atkins]

- Kyle and Ray save each other from being skewered by Power Ring, Dark Booster, and another unnamed female hero - an evil Liberty Belle, perhaps? - before Ray explains how he picked up Ray-51's work. Ray-51 had a genetic immunity to all disease, and faced off with a sentient virus with the same properties ("Morticoccus"). After JLA-51 met with a JSA from another reality, Ray-51 deduced that the Morticoccus may exist in other realities, then made plans to visit each Earth and innoculate one person against the disease. Ray-51 died before he could begin his work, so our Ray picked it up, and 'signed' his work each time with the Atom symbol.

I wonder if they're going to say that's what was behind the Atom symbol on the KC Superman's hand in one of the Countdown teaser images.

[LtMarvel]

Once again DC completely ignores that the DCU Batman actually did try to kill Joker after Jason's death. Joker just pulled one of his trade mark "appears to have died but comes back later" tricks that he has been pulling since Batman 1.

Countdown is really starting to get interesting though.
Who said DC ignored it? Remember we are watching the characters, not the history of DCU.

I don't believe that Jason Todd has any knowledge of what happened right after his death. What I got out of that scene is seeds of doubt placed in Jason's head about his Batman.

[botch]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.

I hope that Jason decides to reform because he sees what killing the Joker did to that Batman, and since his whole motivation for attacking Batman originally was because he didn't kill the Joker, he forgives him.

I think that makes the most sense and gives some closure to the initial story of his return.

well he was acting heroicly, wanting to go outside and help Donna and Kyle.

[botch]

He had to kill more than one villain for that earth to become a "paradise".....

and, no, a hero does not become that which he hates........

that batman is a real world batman who doesn't live in a fantasy world like the DCU batman. you kill the bad guys and the world becomes a better place, it's sad that existance is set up this way and humanity is set up this way but it's fact.

[botch]

Ya' know... Now that I, can't buy comics all the time the way I, uses to I have to rely on the discussion boards to keep abreast of what's going on nowadays. Yesterday (Late last night.) I, finally think I have caught up with Superboy/man-Prime's story. What a bummer of a life he experienced. But, don't get me wrong. It's not like he didn't know the difference between right from wrong. Although I, would -- in his defense claim temporary insanity. What I wonder now is... Where is he? Is his saga over now or what? I, also now know why he is Superior to Kal-El in physical abilities, or is he? Anyway, I, guess I want to know, if he would have taken out doomsday under similar circumstances not akin to the "Death of Superman" storyline? Note... I am taking into account his natural weaknesses. And, sans the solar suit(s)... Could SB/M Prime have taken out Doomsday? Yes, I know Kal-El died and was launched into the sun and all only to come back and go toe to toe with Doomsday. But, really could Prime take Doomsday out without all that drama?

Superboy Prime is the most powerful non spirtitual/metaphysical being in the DCM. he would OWN doomsday. He is a Kid with the powers of a God.

[botch]

I wonder if they're going to say that's what was behind the Atom symbol on the KC Superman's hand in one of the Countdown teaser images.

ahh it makes sense. KC Supes is innoculated.

[bfrank]

Yeah, Batman adopted Todd' kill policy and made the earth a paradise. His only sin, as far as Jason Todd is concerned, is not rushing head long and taking on two opposing armies. Real villain, their Bruce :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: see I can do that too, and while their bruce being a murderer is alright in Jason's eyes(IIRC a murderer his self), it isn't in mine.....

but thanks for playing!

[bfrank]

that batman is a real world batman who doesn't live in a fantasy world like the DCU batman. you kill the bad guys and the world becomes a better place, it's sad that existance is set up this way and humanity is set up this way but it's fact.

Sorry, I'm not big on one man being judge and jury....that's what they have laws and courts and all that nonesense for.....

and look, his world is paying for his crime......

[Choppa]

well he was acting heroicly, wanting to go outside and help Donna and Kyle.

Yeah but why? WHat makes him suddenly turn from murderer to hero? If he just suddenly puts on the RR costume and becomes a "good guy" I will be very dissapointed.

[the4thpip]

The "picking out drapes" line was worse than the Donna Troy as Rick James bit. I mean, even when he was Nathaniel Adam... or Captain Atom... do you think Monarch was really the interior design type? I'd picture him saying something more along the lines of a drill sergeant like, "Let's not all go ****ing ourselves off just yet." But maybe that's just me.



Maybe that was the clue that Monarch is NOT the former Captain Atom, but really Pied Piper?

[The Cool Thatguy]

:rolleyes: see I can do that too, and while their bruce being a murderer is alright in Jason's eyes(IIRC a murderer his self), it isn't in mine.....

but thanks for playing!

I don't recall saying that Batman being a murderer is a good thing. You simply misunderstand my point.

But given that Jason Todd's offed his fair share of villains, I can't see it being too much of an issue with him. Furthermore, this earth was depicted was a paradise and was such in large part because of Batman's efforts.

This earth vindicates Jason Todd's stance, if anything.

[Paul Dee]

I liked this issue. Monarch's comment about waiting to pick out the drapes was funny. Donna's "I'm Donna Troy Bitch!" line was corny though.

I hope that Jason decides to reform because he sees what killing the Joker did to that Batman, and since his whole motivation for attacking Batman originally was because he didn't kill the Joker, he forgives him.

I think that makes the most sense and gives some closure to the initial story of his return.

^^this post encapsulates my thoughts on this issue perfectly^^


Y'know, if Countdown had been bi-monthly or only 26 weekly issues I think the fan reaction would be a lot more positive. It's really pulling thread together now but it's such a shame it's taken so long.

[jadehorde]

Donna Troy: Rick James/Chappelle Show fan.



I guess Leezle Pon isn't available for whatever reason.

Gah, I never liked sentient viruses. The universe is weird enough that I could buy a hive mind bacterium...or just a really big one. That and it should be insane for a pathogen to jump into an already infected person...

That'd be like you running D-day by yourself...

[Assassin Spider]

In response to everyone's comments on the Jason Todd angle of the issue, I think Jason's starting to realize the consequences of vengeance. It doesn't make the world a better place; it simply leaves you hollow and empty inside. Yes, Earth-51 is a paradise, but it is a paradise built on corpses --- the corpses of evildoers, yes, but still corpses. I'm sure the ordinary people of Earth-51 might be all right with all those dead villains, but do they even comprehend the moral cost of the "paradise" they live in now? Do they even comprehend the ways in which they have sold their humanity for security?

On the Donna Troy angle, while the line is quite crass in my opinion, it does work as Donna finally asserting, once and for all, that she knows who she is. I am willing to tolerate it if only for that reason alone.

[Will.S]

Yeah but why? WHat makes him suddenly turn from murderer to hero? If he just suddenly puts on the RR costume and becomes a "good guy" I will be very dissapointed.
I don't know if I'd ever really call Jason a hero despite his new red Robin attire since he's never going to be absolved of his crimes/killings he had done in his stint as the Red Hood.

Although I can see how Earth 51 Batman is so far off the deep end that it shocked him into a saner sense of mind than he was in previously. It should just serve him a reminder that his New Earth Batman set a better example by not killing off all of his villains and not letting go of his humanity.

As for the rest of the issue, the book is really coming along much better now that things are rapidly coming together. There's still a mountain of vagueness in certain motivations and why a character has been plucked from elsewhere to play a role here but not in the same slow moving way it's been before. I've become very interested in the Brother Eye parts, the Monitors vs Monarch w/army in tow, and Superman Prime and Solomon going at it with each other.

The Mary Marvel stuff still fails to interest me although earlier it did and I'm much more interested in the Holly/Harley angle where they team up with Hyppolita (sp?).

And I'll tell ya, Pete Woods is really making the book all the better. Amazingly he's been keeping up pretty well with it when Tom Derenick's on assist who doesn't do too shabby a job either.

Countdown is certainly moving in the right direction at this point since it's holding my interest big time in how and why it's being set up this way.

[Will.S]

On the Donna Troy angle, while the line is quite crass in my opinion, it does work as Donna finally asserting, once and for all, that she knows who she is. I am willing to tolerate it if only for that reason alone.
Fully agreed.

[botch]

Yeah but why? WHat makes him suddenly turn from murderer to hero? If he just suddenly puts on the RR costume and becomes a "good guy" I will be very dissapointed.

theres a difference betwene someone who kills criminals and someone who murders. who says a good guy can't kill? Is Aragorn not a hero? is Wolverine not a hero? Is John McClane not a hero?

[botch]

In response to everyone's comments on the Jason Todd angle of the issue, I think Jason's starting to realize the consequences of vengeance. It doesn't make the world a better place; it simply leaves you hollow and empty inside. Yes, Earth-51 is a paradise, but it is a paradise built on corpses --- the corpses of evildoers, yes, but still corpses.

doesn't matter, if you juxtapose it to real world. killing criminals and 'bad guys' does make the world a better place. it's true. doesn't mean I like it, in fact it's very sad that it's true and speaks alot about how pathetic humanity is that the world isn't like the DCU which is a fantasy land.

[4thHorseman]

theres a difference betwene someone who kills criminals and someone who murders. who says a good guy can't kill? Is Aragorn not a hero? is Wolverine not a hero? Is John McClane not a hero?

Whether they are heroes or not, they are still murderers. The whole good/evil thing is a made up belief for justifications that change depending on the place in history.

[Captain Smith]

You don't understand the definition of the word - murder.