The Web-Shooters

[Joe Acro]

With Brand New Day comes some changes. One of those changes happens to be that Peter has mechanical web-shooters once again. I could start a thread in which people discuss whether they prefer mechanical or organic webs, but I won't. That's been done enough. No, I have some other preference to inquire about.

A little ways into the 1999 reboot, Peter's Spider-Man stuff was stolen from him by a kid. In a subsequent issue, the kid tried to fire the web-shooters, but found that he couldn't on his own. He eventually activated it by smacking the extended part (where Peter taps with his fingers) with a sledgehammer.

This infers that the webshooters require Spider-Man's super-strength (or something that could provide the same force) in order to work. This might also be a reason why Peter had to modify them so that Mary Jane could use them, when he gave them to her as a gift.

However, this is counter-acted in other stories. Just to use a fairly recent example that comes to mind, Black Cat pinned Spider-Man to a roof by triggering his web-shooters while his arms were crossed.

Although it's a different chronology, Carol Danvers was recently able to use the web-shooters with no special aid at all over in Ultimate Spider-Man.

I simply want to know what the general Spider-Man community prefers and continuity says generally. So, what say you?

[Sonicjuce]

I'd never heard they took super strength to activate, so I don't really care either way.

I know everyone hates organic webshooters. However, as I have said before, Marvel made their bed and they should lie in it. They should have stuck it out.

I think that is what bothers me about comics so much now adays. Something happens and however great it may be you know in the back of your mind that it does not have to stick. So really any big moments in a heroes/characters life really aren't bit moments. The organic web shooters are a great example of this.

[carabas]

A little ways into the 1999 reboot, Peter's Spider-Man stuff was stolen from him by a kid. In a subsequent issue, the kid tried to fire the web-shooters, but found that he couldn't on his own. He eventually activated it by smacking the extended part (where Peter taps with his fingers) with a sledgehammer.This seems like one, single, isolated story that clearly is not on the same page as pretty much every other story that features the webshooters in four decades. and should be just ignored. Was this by John Byrne by any chance?

[Sijo]

Yes, it had been established in the comics (especially in Marvel Universe Handbook entries) that:

-The triggers required a more than casual degree of pressure to fire (otherwise they would shoot every time Spidey made a fist).

-Peter had to tap the trigger twice in quick succession in order to activate the shooters; this prevented them from firing while punching the bad guys with super-strength.


Personally, I prefer the shooters over organic webbing, because the spinnerets suggest that Peter had been changed far more than the original version hinted at; effectively giving him nonhuman organs. From them to giving him stingers wasn't that hard a progression. Let people like wolverine have unnatural attachments. I prefer Peter as human as possible.

[Joe Acro]

I know everyone hates organic webshooters.Not everyone, but the mere fact that that topic has been done before (and maybe too much) makes me not want to cover that here.

This seems like one, single, isolated story that clearly is not on the same page as pretty much every other story that features the webshooters in four decades. and should be just ignored. Was this by John Byrne by any chance?It was drawn by Byrne at least. Mackie's the one who actually wrote it.

Yes, it had been established in the comics (especially in Marvel Universe Handbook entries) that:

-The triggers required a more than casual degree of pressure to fire (otherwise they would shoot every time Spidey made a fist).

-Peter had to tap the trigger twice in quick succession in order to activate the shooters; this prevented them from firing while punching the bad guys with super-strength.Ah, yes. The double-tap. I had forgotten about that. That would make the sledgehammer use problematic, unless enough pressure can cause it to trigger without that.

By that entry, at least, it requires a certain amount of strength. I wonder who the puniest person to active them was.

[matthewaos]

Yes, it had been established in the comics (especially in Marvel Universe Handbook entries) that:

-The triggers required a more than casual degree of pressure to fire (otherwise they would shoot every time Spidey made a fist).

-Peter had to tap the trigger twice in quick succession in order to activate the shooters; this prevented them from firing while punching the bad guys with super-strength.


Personally, I prefer the shooters over organic webbing, because the spinnerets suggest that Peter had been changed far more than the original version hinted at; effectively giving him nonhuman organs. From them to giving him stingers wasn't that hard a progression. Let people like wolverine have unnatural attachments. I prefer Peter as human as possible.

The double clicking and the enhanced strength make sense actually.

[Shyft]

Haven't the New Warriors recently been seen using the web-shooters?

i liked organic webshooters. Makes so much more sense for a hero with SPIDER powers to be able to shoot webs as part of his powers.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

A little ways into the 1999 reboot, Peter's Spider-Man stuff was stolen from him by a kid. In a subsequent issue, the kid tried to fire the web-shooters, but found that he couldn't on his own. He eventually activated it by smacking the extended part (where Peter taps with his fingers) with a sledgehammer.

That's some interesting info, Joe. I wasn't aware of this particular story, but it would be a nice fail-safe device for Peter. You would also think that a guy as smart as Pete would have several fail-safe devices in place for his web-shooters. It just wouldn't make sense that the average Joe off the street could use them when they are one of Spidey's main powers.

Either way, organic or web-shooter as long as they make the cool noise I'm fine with them.

[hmnut73]

I didn't like the organic web-shooters only because it was clearly done for the benefit of the movie goers.

Kind of like "screw you people who have been reading for 10, 20, 30, 40 years some guy who never picked up the comic book once might want to read it so f*** web shooters." I have a deep issue with the idea of making the comic books in nothing more than compaine pieces to go with the movies. But "back in Black" and all that proves the battle has been fought and lost.

[spiderman_rj]

I didn't like the organic web-shooters only because it was clearly done for the benefit of the movie goers.

Kind of like "screw you people who have been reading for 10, 20, 30, 40 years some guy who never picked up the comic book once might want to read it so f*** web shooters." I have a deep issue with the idea of making the comic books in nothing more than compaine pieces to go with the movies. But "back in Black" and all that proves the battle has been fought and lost.


yah,and sandman being bad again.......
i completely agree with you,and organic fans should be hanged !!! :evilsmile
i like the mechanical better for two resons it show peter intelect,i dont care if someone find odd that a teenager could figure sth cientist couldnt, its a FANTASY for effing sakes,second if peter were to develop organic shooters he:

- either would have to use his genious intelect to create a new toilet
- or would have his arms just like popeye,wich is silly.

if the organic webbing had develop AFTER the simbiont saga, i wouldnt find it much troublesome,as we could think the simbiont gave him a little enhacement,but to just bring it like that,and the spikes? since when spiders have spikes or fangs =!=

webshooters forever,they are a iconic part of the spider hyphen man mythos, its outrageous to had even conclude that we would just prefer that way to go with the movies,the comics came first, they are the source of the ADAPTATION the movies are,not should the comics become and adaptation of the movies,btw anyone heard of red hulk ? ultimate avengers movies anyone ? (iron man,hulk,soon to be cap america,thor and others)

btw 616 black widow inspired her shooters on spider-man ones,i dont know if she stole one like the ultimate version or just spyed on spidey,so i dont know if she ever used one.

[Kid Quick Foots]

aww man they brought back the mechanical shooters? booooo.

[Roquefort Raider]

Yes, it had been established in the comics (especially in Marvel Universe Handbook entries) that:

-The triggers required a more than casual degree of pressure to fire (otherwise they would shoot every time Spidey made a fist).

-Peter had to tap the trigger twice in quick succession in order to activate the shooters; this prevented them from firing while punching the bad guys with super-strength.

Personally, I prefer the shooters over organic webbing, because the spinnerets suggest that Peter had been changed far more than the original version hinted at; effectively giving him nonhuman organs. From them to giving him stingers wasn't that hard a progression. Let people like wolverine have unnatural attachments. I prefer Peter as human as possible.

Agreed! I didn't mind the organic webshooters in the movie because they were easier for a general crowd to accept; the mechanical ones would have taken longer to explain and stretched credibility (since let's face it, the webshooters make far less sense in the "real" world than in the more permissive comic-book world).

In the comics, however, the webshooters are really part and parcel of the Spider-man mythos. Peter is not just another super-powered clown; he's a brilliant super-powered clown, with the wherewithal to build his own tools when the need arises. His tools do reflect the kind of hard-luck hero he is, though: unlike the Silver Surfer's board or Captain America's shield, Spidey's webshooters break, run out of fluid, jam occasionally or are simply not available from time to time. Spidey has to be the only superhero to know the frustration of regularly running out of ammo, just as he is the only one to have to wear a paper bag over his head or to rent a costume that shrinks when wet.

[HeckBoy]

Agreed! I didn't mind the organic webshooters in the movie because they were easier for a general crowd to accept; the mechanical ones would have taken longer to explain and stretched credibility (since let's face it, the webshooters make far less sense in the "real" world than in the more permissive comic-book world).

In the comics, however, the webshooters are really part and parcel of the Spider-man mythos. Peter is not just another super-powered clown; he's a brilliant super-powered clown, with the wherewithal to build his own tools when the need arises. His tools do reflect the kind of hard-luck hero he is, though: unlike the Silver Surfer's board or Captain America's shield, Spidey's webshooters break, run out of fluid, jam occasionally or are simply not available from time to time. Spidey has to be the only superhero to know the frustration of regularly running out of ammo, just as he is the only one to have to wear a paper bag over his head or to rent a costume that shrinks when wet.I agree. Not only are the webshooters simply a part of the mythos, but it shows Peter's brilliance. Plus, I always found it more interesting if a hero needed a tool/weapon to fully compliment his skills/abilities. It shows how much skill a hero needs to have in order to really be at his best. I mean, most Marvel heroes have powers now and it's kind of being used as a crutch (can't get out of a situation? here comes a secret power boost). But with a weapon, if you run out of ammo or it breaks/lost, you gotta rely on your wits and will to get thru things.

[Will.S]

The only real problem I've ever had with the organic shooters is that both in the movies and in the comic, there was never a visible hole showing where it came from. I never understood how it would just shoot out of the costume without gumming up his wrist/arm with nothing there to let it flow out.

The mechanical web shooters shown in the BND issue looks very tweaked in design the way John Romita Jr. draws them. The trigger isn't at all connected to the web cartridges so it looks like they might work by remote even though it's like only a few inches away from the cartridges. But then again the shooters were magically supplied to him by a demon so maybe Mephisto just came up with a better design this time around.

[DarKye]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/darkye/Scans/webshooter.jpg

Read slightest and super-sensitive. This is from Amazing Spider-Man #2.

Anything that comes after that is a retcon.

[Shyft]

But with a weapon, if you run out of ammo or it breaks/lost, you gotta rely on your wits and will to get thru things.

which happens SO often. seriously, Peter may be a genius to invent those things, but at the rate writers use "oh no, web-shooter jam/out of fluid" as an excuse for him to fall/let a bad guy escape/generally be in peril, he seems to have made them pretty shoddily.

Its just an excuse for lazy writing. Thats it. Theres a myriad of other ways they could show Peter being inventive. Hell Cable, Forge, Iron Man & co do it all the time, they are always coming up with new gadgets and gizmo's. Basically most fan's dont ACTUALLY want Peter to invent things, because then he would be accuse of "not being spiderman". If he created a piece of kit which amplified his spider-sense into pre-cog powers, fans would say " pffft, why is Spiderman trying to be a psychic?"

They just want the web-shooters because thats what he started out with. But thats the main reason i dont like OMD, it just rewinds Peter to an inferior version of himself.

[filthysize]

Read slightest and super-sensitive. This is from Amazing Spider-Man #2.

Anything that comes after that is a retcon.

Oh, I dunno. Is fixing bad science really a retcon? 'Cause Magneto used to lift all kinds of shit that ain't metal.

[Shyft]

Oh, I dunno. Is fixing bad science really a retcon? 'Cause Magneto used to lift all kinds of shit that ain't metal.

with his mental magnetic powers that also apparantly produce forcefields and stuff? wow, that IS better science. "Good" and "bad" science are moot in books where the main character should have died of radiation poisoning rather than getting super powers.

[Will.S]

which happens SO often. seriously, Peter may be a genius to invent those things, but at the rate writers use "oh no, web-shooter jam/out of fluid" as an excuse for him to fall/let a bad guy escape/generally be in peril, he seems to have made them pretty shoddily.

Its just an excuse for lazy writing. Thats it. Theres a myriad of other ways they could show Peter being inventive. Hell Cable, Forge, Iron Man & co do it all the time, they are always coming up with new gadgets and gizmo's. Basically most fan's dont ACTUALLY want Peter to invent things, because then he would be accuse of "not being spiderman". If he created a piece of kit which amplified his spider-sense into pre-cog powers, fans would say " pffft, why is Spiderman trying to be a psychic?"

They just want the web-shooters because thats what he started out with. But thats the main reason i dont like OMD, it just rewinds Peter to an inferior version of himself.
Yeah I agree.

[becominAfanAgain]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/darkye/Scans/webshooter.jpg

Read slightest and super-sensitive. This is from Amazing Spider-Man #2.

Anything that comes after that is a retcon.\\

Yes these is true but as Liberty Belle Fan said Peter is a genius and he would have some kind of fail safe.

Brand New day's Stock is falling...........

[Winter Bolt]

65 pounds on a trigger point double tap. I could never manage 20-30 lbs psi finger tap and I'm in really good shape. A kid would never be able to do 10 lbs psi tap, it would be like a 10 year old trying to bench 260 without breaking a sweat twice, in less then a second.

It's a good safety device when written properly. You'd need a sledge, and even then you would explode the bracelet and suffocate yourself within the hour. Which is priceless. Pete probably set it so you need 120 lb pressure tap now just to be "super safe!" He is after all... a genius!

I liked the change to organic. Made him like a hyperion juicer, had to eat, couldn't be sick... ect. Still had the... OMG, shooters weak, out of juice! OH NoS!

[Joe Acro]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/darkye/Scans/webshooter.jpg

Read slightest and super-sensitive. This is from Amazing Spider-Man #2.

Anything that comes after that is a retcon.
No-prize time!

It's the slightest touch of Peter's finger specifically. To him, the double tap could feel slight.

It only states that the electrode controlling the trigger are sensitive. He could easily have a pressure plate over said electrode.

...or he just changed them to what we know now (like when he changed it so that new cartridges would get rotated in).

[metalhead_dave743]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/darkye/Scans/webshooter.jpg

Read slightest and super-sensitive. This is from Amazing Spider-Man #2.

Anything that comes after that is a retcon.

Oh please, you mean to tell me that in the many years Peter had been Spider-Man he didn't update the shooters from time to time?

I liked the mechanical web shooters because of all the versitale things he could do with the web: change the thickness of the stream, make it a spray, impact webbing. Maybe he can do that with organic too, but I like mechanical. It explains things better, and it gives Peter creative ideas to update or modify the webbing.

[DarKye]

No-prize time!

It's the slightest touch of Peter's finger specifically. To him, the double tap could feel slight.

It only states that the electrode controlling the trigger are sensitive. He could easily have a pressure plate over said electrode.

...or he just changed them to what we know now (like when he changed it so that new cartridges would get rotated in).

Ah, a good point. :p

I guess we'll know more about the current web shooters once the Spider-Mugger starts using the one he stole.

[Will.S]

Well here's the updated one for those who haven't seen it:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4503/web2lo0.jpg

[Ann Nichols]

I like the organic webshooters because I don't have to wonder how a guy who is broke as often as Peter is can afford the ingredients to make his homemade web fluid.

What safeguards are in place to keep Spidey from shooting webbing if he lands hard with both palms against a wall or smacks the side of his head with the palm of his hand?

[Choppa]

^He probabaly steals them from a lab or something.

But anyway, does anyone know why the organic shooters were done away with? I thought their introduction was to tie into the movie? But why the sudden change?

[Winter Bolt]

True. We have to think how Pete is able to afford, let alone create the polymers, (especially in the early days) as well as have the equipment available to pressurize the cartidges. Any smart hero.. Tony, Pym, Reed.. or villain... Ock, Norman, Doom could analyze the webbing before it dissolves, then trace those base chemicals back to any such purchases through out the city, or if any stores of such materials have been "mysteriously" disappearing from school science labs. Connors and Reed may have supplied him down the road as well as the Avengers or X-Men... as it's possible. It's doubtful he's making the stuff out of Aunt May's Draino and Clorox2. I then ask as to how he is able to afford and maintain such equipment on such a small budget, unless again he is being supplied by an ally or friend.

The double tap activates the shooter normally and the pressure of the second tap with prolonged pressure probably dictates how the nozzle opens... sort of like a 6 headed sprinkler that makes streams and effects... shields, net weaves, fancy weapons like clubs, web balls, ect. Or... it could be "magic".

Ya... magic! I love magic.

[HeckBoy]

Well here's the updated one for those who haven't seen it:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4503/web2lo0.jpgOh weird, so the electrodes/buttons dont even attach to the "bracelet" anymore? Has the electrode and bracelet always been detachable? It's giving me shades of Cyclops' visor opening mechanism.

[filthysize]

with his mental magnetic powers that also apparantly produce forcefields and stuff? wow, that IS better science.

Better than being able to control people's minds with his MAGNETIC personality!

(Seriously, look it up).

[matthewaos]

I like the organic webshooters because I don't have to wonder how a guy who is broke as often as Peter is can afford the ingredients to make his homemade web fluid.

What safeguards are in place to keep Spidey from shooting webbing if he lands hard with both palms against a wall or smacks the side of his head with the palm of his hand?

He may be is broke because he spends so much money on those things. Has he ever said that he does not have money to buy cloth for a new costume or web fluid? No, he does not have money for everything else!

[darksaint124]

Better than being able to control people's minds with his MAGNETIC personality!

(Seriously, look it up).

Magneto has the Bobby Drake syndrome(too lazy to use his powers to their full extent) All he does is use magnetism when he can control other types of energy. So we really don't know what his upper capabilities are. Seriously, look it up.

[StoneGold]

Oh weird, so the electrodes/buttons dont even attach to the "bracelet" anymore? Has the electrode and bracelet always been detachable? It's giving me shades of Cyclops' visor opening mechanism.

There's a black line partially covered by the web, but connecting the stud and the wristband. I'm assuming it's electrical wire.

[JesseJay]

I'm a fan of both. I like the shooters because they are classic, and they feel like they belong in BND. I also agree that it does show peter's intelect. That being said, I've always perfered organic shooter, even before the movie came out. To me it didn't make sense that spider-man could not shoot webs. It would be like if wolverine's claws were weapons that detached, or if cyclops' optic blast was powered by his visor. I did think the organic web shooter's introduction into the comics stretched believiblty a bit far. I mean, he devolps a new super power, that functions the exact same way as his old equipment? wow. They even came out of the exact same place.

[spiderman_rj]

wtf are you guys talking about,the electrode IS conected to the wrist but there is a web line in front of it,thats all,and peter steal? have you never read a good spiderman story,like the before the 90s? peter bough and was shown numerous times buying his quemicals with his hard earned money,and once even had to deal with not having enough chemicals to do more webbing.
after he got married mj took care of that expense,as she was a supermodel,wich was one of the reason i never liked the marriage.after the guys that was obcessed with her and denied her jobs,that the situation began to be like that again.
steal from a lab,what a bunch of idiots you are.....

[Roquefort Raider]

I mean, he devolps a new super power, that functions the exact same way as his old equipment? wow. They even came out of the exact same place.

I loved it when Spider-man 2099 noted how lucky he was that his web didn't come out of his butt (which it should have, really).

[darksaint124]

Is it too much to ask for Pete to go SPLAT!!!!! just one time. I really just want to see him fall from like 100 feet up, get hit by a car, and then walk away ike nothing happened while leaving the driver with an I.O.U. from your "friendly neighborhood, aahh you know the rest"

[Joe Acro]

It is my understanding that in the current issue (#547), that a common thief is able to activate the web-shooters. So much for the proposed fail-safes.

[darksaint124]

It is my understanding that in the current issue (#547), that a common thief is able to activate the web-shooters. So much for the proposed fail-safes.

Yes you are correct. Tell him waht he's won.
O.K.
You sir have won....................*drumbeat*
A congadulatory message from me telling you that you are correct.

[Phil Hunn]

But anyway, does anyone know why the organic shooters were done away with? I thought their introduction was to tie into the movie? But why the sudden change?

Because they're not 70s-tastic like the rest of BND, I suppose... :rolleyes:

Pity, really - I really liked them, after an initial period of distaste. As for Peter never running out of web-fluid with the organics, I'm going to repeat my often-stated point about trying to spit for five hours. It's impossible, since your saliva glands are going to run dry eventually, and the same applies to Peter's spinnerets. It's not like he'd have an infinite supply...

He may be is broke because he spends so much money on those things.

I seem to remember he formulated the web-fluid from common household chemicals. But I could be wrong...

There's a black line partially covered by the web, but connecting the stud and the wristband. I'm assuming it's electrical wire.

Yep, it's definitely there.

[Sijo]

It is my understanding that in the current issue (#547), that a common thief is able to activate the web-shooters. So much for the proposed fail-safes.
I blame it on Mephisto. (Or poor writing.) :D