which one was the best of the Excaliber series? [Archive]

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 04:40 PM

Technically it's:

Excalibur v1: 1987-1998 (#1-125)

Excalibur v2 (Sometimes referred to as 'Sword of Power' although it never went by that name): 2001 (#1-4)

Excalibur v3 (The genoshan unassociated project which held the name under copyright): 2004-2005 (#1-14)

New Excalibur: 2005-2007 (#1-24)

Of all of the above only volume one was really good. Volume two kind of continues where the original series should have gone. It advances Captain Britain's story, has him fulfilling the task he and his siblings were created for.

Sadly Chris Claremont spent House of M, New Excalibur and X-Men: Die by the Sword pretending none of that ever happened, to the point that it has now been retconned out of existence.

Excalibur volume three does not really count as Excalibur. It bares the name, but not the setting, characters or sense of purpose. It wasn't a bad series, at all. But should really have been given a new name. We know that it only inherited 'Excalibur' to keep the name under copyright. That fact itself doesn't really do it justice.

New Excalibur was a decent concept, but went woefully wrong. The less said the better, really. Excalibur fans demanded it for so long, but it disappointed.

Here's to the PROPER Excalibur relaunch this year.

DDM

01-12-2008, 05:15 PM

I prefer the Chris Claremont & Alan Davis Excalibur with the founding members: Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, & Phoenix. The book is a perfect synthesis of the David Thorpe/Alan Moore/Jamie Delano/Alan Davis & Alan Davis Captain Britain & the mutant Uncanny X-Men thanks to the link of Betsy Braddock becoming a core member of the team during the Mutant Massacre, although Claremont had been building toward Betsy joining the team since she was reintroduced in The New Mutants Annual #2.

The stories are both whimsical & tragic since tragedy brought the team together thinking the X-Men had died in battle. All of the team has scars of some kind such as Nightcrawler losing his ability to teleport multiple times in a row, Kitty being is a permanent phase, Captain Britian & Meggan are dependent on the British isles for their powers to work correctly, & Rachel is the lone survivor of a mutant Holocaust where Sentinels rule the United States.

Furthermore, Shadowcat has a mystical link with Illyana's demon sorcery & able to wield her Soulsword (a key in defeating the enchanted Brian Braddock & Meggan as the Goblin Princess in Excalibur #7 during Inferno). Nightcrawler resembles a demon, although he is very religious Catholic himself.

I really liked where Chris & Alan was taking all the characters.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:19 PM

It's so haror me to read those Early Clare,ont/Davis issues and then read New Excalibur. It's hard to even see it as the same writer working on both books. I really do wonder how you go from Brian Braddock being such a great character to read in Claremont's Excalibur, to being a virtual noentity in New Excalibur - barely ever out of costume, and spouting speeches. We never really saw Brian himself in NEX.

RickyD410

01-12-2008, 05:19 PM

I never read the original Excalibur. Were there actually British characters in it, besides Captain Britain?

I'd like to see this Excalibur be made up of British characters. Captain Britain, Psylocke, Widsom, Chamber, and Wolfsbane. The only other British character that I know of is Pixie, who is Welsh. But I like her with her teen friends in New/Young X-Men.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:25 PM

I never read the original Excalibur. Were there actually British characters in it, besides Captain Britain?

Captain Britain and Meggan were both British. And they had British supporting characters in the form of Moira McTaggart (Scottish), Alistaire and Alysande Stuart (Technically Scottish), and Dai Thomas (Welsh police detective).

In later years that also gained Kylun (Scottish), Micromax (English, Feron (Technically Irish though I think) Pete Wisdom (English), Wolf'sbane (Scottish) and Rory Campbell (Who was Scottish, and in Rachel Grey's time-line became Ahab).

It was a very good mix of characters.

I'd like to see this Excalibur be made up of British characters. Captain Britain, Psylocke, Widsom, Chamber, and Wolfsbane. The only other British character that I know of is Pixie, who is Welsh. But I like her with her teen friends in New/Young X-Men.

And that would be a great line-up. I miss Rhane not being on Excalibur, and Chamber should be there by now.

The next volume of Excalibur promises a predominantly British cast. But they're not all likely to be mutants...

Beast

01-12-2008, 05:28 PM

Other than Pete Wisdom, I don't believe any of them will be.

DDM

01-12-2008, 05:32 PM

Captain Britain and Meggan were both British. And they had British supporting characters in the form of Moira McTaggart (Scottish), Alistaire and Alysande Stuart (Technically Scottish), and Dai Thomas (Welsh police detective).

You forgot the supporting character in Courtney Ross (aka Mastrex Opal Lun Sat-Yr-9)...;)

jhota

01-12-2008, 05:35 PM

Vol. 1! the Cross-Time Caper was the greatest Excalibur story ever...

and it was the best line-up.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:37 PM

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:38 PM

You forgot the supporting character in Courtney Ross (aka Mastrex Opal Lun Sat-Yr-9)...;)

Bugger. Can I play my 'She's from another dimension' card here...? :D

Beast

01-12-2008, 05:41 PM

Which in many respects is not entirely a bad thing. As New Excalibur taught us, making a team out of B and C list X-Characters doesn't really work. Especially when there are higher profile Marvel Universe characters out there who are either British or tied to Britain.

Marvel's Britain has always been a predominately non-mutant landscape, anyway.
Of course, it won't have anything to set it apart from the other team books out there. At least before it had the mutant books to support it. And will be composed of even less well known B and C list characters. ;)

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:47 PM

Of course, it won't have anything to set it apart from the other team books out there. At least before it had the mutant books to support it. And will be composed of even less well known B and C list characters. ;)

It depends, doesn't it? several British characters have received some substantial pushes in the last couple of years. Wisdom and Union Jack in particular. Union Jack got guest spots in Avengers and Captain America, a feature role in New Invaders and his own mini. That's a bigger push than Captain Britain's had. :D

I'd disagree with the mutant thing though. As a pure X-Book Excalibur sells badly. Because its purpose and sensibilities do not fit the X-Brand, and it always comes across as a poor cousin of the rest of the franchise nowadays.

A more Marvel Universe centric title, exploring weird occurrences and occasional folklore, as well as being able to hold up a magnifying glass on the MU from the other side of the Atlantic, could give the title something very different from the other team books out there.

Beast

01-12-2008, 05:49 PM

We'll see. I'm hopeful. But after the mediocre at best Wisdom mini... I don't have much hope.

DDM

01-12-2008, 05:51 PM

I'd disagree with the mutant thing though. As a pure X-Book Excalibur sells badly. Because its purpose and sensibilities do not fit the X-Brand, and it always comes across as a poor cousin of the rest of the franchise nowadays.

Excalibur was always meant to have its own separate identity & it achieved its own kind of brand separate from the X-Men. In fact, Excalibur had more in common with the revamped Captain Britain than Uncanny X-Men.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:53 PM

We'll see. I'm hopeful. But after the mediocre at best Wisdom mini... I don't have much hope.

Yeah, I forgot that you weren't keen on Wisdom. It's one of those books which suits being read in one go, possibly better than monthly. But that trade has sold a hell of a lot better, and positive word is spreading far.

I had to laugh that after Paul Cornell's Newsarama interview, about his Young Avengers: The Vision one-shot, almost all the posts on the thread had little to do with that book. They all wanted Excalibur news. ;)

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 05:54 PM

Excalibur was always meant to have its own separate identity & it achieved its own kind of brand separate from the X-Men. In fact, Excalibur had more in common with the revamped Captain Britain than Uncanny X-Men.

Right up until the editors made Scott Lobdell shoehorn it into being an all out X-Book. Such a waste. :(

Beast

01-12-2008, 05:56 PM

Yeah, I forgot that you weren't keen on Wisdom. It's one of those books which suits being read in one go, possibly better than monthly. But that trade has sold a hell of a lot better, and positive word is spreading far.

I had to laugh that after Paul Cornell's Newsarama interview, about his Young Avengers: The Vision one-shot, almost all the posts on the thread had little to do with that book. They all wanted Excalibur news. ;)
Well, I don't like Pete Wisdom anyway. I finally got to at least like him a bit under CC's pen in NEX. Much like Bishop in X-Treme. But Cornell's Wisdom made me loathe him again. Especially beating the obsession with Kitty into the ground. His overly stereotypical Captain Britain apperance didn't help either.

DDM

01-12-2008, 05:58 PM

Right up until the editors made Scott Lobdell shoehorn it into being an all out X-Book. Such a waste. :(

True. Scott Lobdell wrote out Phoenix to become the ill-fated Mother Askani & gave us the awful Britainic! :mad:

How could someone who wrote so few issues derail a book in so little time?

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 06:03 PM

Well, I don't like Pete Wisdom anyway. I finally got to at least like him a bit under CC's pen in NEX. Much like Bishop in X-Treme. But Cornell's Wisdom made me loathe him again. Especially beating the obsession with Kitty into the ground. His overly stereotypical Captain Britain apperance didn't help either.

To a degree Kitty was referenced a bit much, maybe. But it was purely in reference. Wisdom has never gotten over Kitty. That's really the point. But oddly I felt that that phonecall at the end of #6, despite her not saying a word, was the most in character appearance of Kitty I've read since Mechanix.

I kinda liked that Captain Britain bit. It really summed up the begrudged respect that Wisdom has for Brian. He'll never properly get on with him - they're just from two far too different worlds. But he does have respect for who and what he is. Much as though he'd loathe to admit it.

I find Cornell's Wisdom a bit more 3D than Ellis' in some ways.

And at least he isn't The bloody Leader (Still cross with revalations of Ultimate Human #1... :mad: )

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 06:05 PM

True. Scott Lobdell wrote out Phoenix to become the ill-fated Mother Askani & gave us the awful Britainic! :mad:

How could someone who wrote so few issues derail a book in so little time?

Oh, it's easy. ;) When Ellis left I honestly thought he'd set up Excalibur for the next 5 years. Ben Raab got it cancelled in 18 months. :(

Mystique25

01-12-2008, 06:06 PM

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 06:09 PM

I went with the first series, mind you I did love the Genosha one, and found the beginning of the third series enjoyable. The first series quite a few long great runs, the Claremont/Davis run, the Davis solo run, and the Warren Ellis run. It had some pretty terrible issues, I will admit. Though overall the series was fantastic.

Indeed. The lull between Claremont/Davis and davis on his own was particularly bland. We got stories featuring the Black Panther, Dr Doom, Avengers West Coast... and yet none of them were really all that great. On paper they should have been, but they weren't.

Beast

01-12-2008, 06:09 PM

And at least he isn't The bloody Leader (Still cross with revalations of Ultimate Human #1... :mad: )
I'm interested in seeing where that goes. But, I do hate how Ultimate has a habit of merging two different (often wildly different) characters into one. Pete "The Leader" Wisdom being one of the more extreme examples.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 06:13 PM

I'm interested in seeing where that goes. But, I do hate how Ultimate has a habit of merging two different (sometimes wildly different) characters into one. Pete "The Leader" Wisdom being one of the more extreme examples.

Indeed. I mean there is a logic behind it. Even in this twisted version he's still not getting on with the Braddocks. Only this time because he had the first British Superhuman Program, and Sir James and Brian are the ones who get all the credit.

Largely because theirs worked.

And because he looks like the bastard offspring of Robert DeNiro in Frankenstein and a Dalek. ;)

jester1436

01-12-2008, 06:26 PM

I absolutely love the original Excalibur - especially the early issues, the Cross Time Caper, the solo Davis run, and Ellis run on the book. It's one of my all time favorites and I love the Excalibur O5.

I never got into the brief follow-up mini or Genoshalibur, but what I read of the latter it was a non-entity. It wasn't horrendous, but it wasn't essential or extremely enjoyable either.

And then there's New Excalibur, which, by all accounts should be fantastic - my favorite comic character Dazzler, elements and characters of the original series, one of my favorite Exiles - and it was awful. It failed completely, from Shadow X to Albion to the ending crossover, it was as if was limping to its demise with the very first issue.

DDM

01-12-2008, 06:26 PM

Oh, it's easy. ;) When Ellis left I honestly thought he'd set up Excalibur for the next 5 years. Ben Raab got it cancelled in 18 months. :(

Excalibur's high points remain the Chris Claremont/Alan Davis, the Alan Davis/Alan Davis, & the Warren Ellis stories.

I think Marvel wanted to cancel Excalibur & placed Ben Raab on the book for this purpose alone...:mad:

SunfireX

01-12-2008, 06:37 PM

I attribute Excalibur Vol 1 with really getting me into comics so I had to vote for it. Rachel, Kitty, Brian, Kurt, Meggan it really was such an odd and wonderful combination that worked so well.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-12-2008, 06:39 PM

I absolutely love the original Excalibur - especially the early issues, the Cross Time Caper, the solo Davis run, and Ellis run on the book. It's one of my all time favorites and I love the Excalibur O5.

A lot of people very genuinely do. I actually know several people who only got into X-Men via reading Excalibur.

I never got into the brief follow-up mini or Genoshalibur, but what I read of the latter it was a non-entity. It wasn't horrendous, but it wasn't essential or extremely enjoyable either.

I won't slag off the Genoshan Excalibur - because I didn't think it was that bad. Totally didn't fit the name, rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way, but it wasn't bad. I think it would probably have done better without the Excalibur association, and with a grittier artist. It really was Claremont and Kordey's baby.

And then there's New Excalibur, which, by all accounts should be fantastic - my favorite comic character Dazzler, elements and characters of the original series, one of my favorite Exiles - and it was awful. It failed completely, from Shadow X to Albion to the ending crossover, it was as if was limping to its demise with the very first issue.

I actually liked the first 8 issues. It felt like it could go somewhere. But it never did. It was still in the starting blocks well into its second year, and I think that there was an assumption that because it made a second year people would just accept it as it was. Claremont badly needed to bond and develop the cast as a team. He didn't. It fell apart.

And that should come as no real surprise.

Excalibur's high points remain the Chris Claremont/Alan Davis, the Alan Davis/Alan Davis, & the Warren Ellis stories.

I think Marvel wanted to cancel Excalibur & placed Ben Raab on the book for this purpose alone...:mad:

I think you may well be right. Ellis' Excalibur was kind of a runaway and unexpected success for Marvel. But they wanted a big 35th anniversary event to try and boost flagging X-Men sales. And the editors clearly thought bringing Kitty, Kurt and Poitr back would achieve that. It didn't really, because all three kinda sat around as spare pars for two years - nobody really knowing what to do with them.

david r

01-12-2008, 07:32 PM

jhota

01-12-2008, 09:02 PM

Which in many respects is not entirely a bad thing. As New Excalibur taught us, making a team out of B and C list X-Characters doesn't really work. Especially when there are higher profile Marvel Universe characters out there who are either British or tied to Britain.

Marvel's Britain has always been a predominately non-mutant landscape, anyway.

NEx could have been such a good book, though... i rather liked the cast. it's just the writing and plotting was awful.

my (very small) selection of art from Vol. 1 and NEx...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/jhota42/exwall.jpg

MarvelGirlBoy

01-12-2008, 09:27 PM

I attribute Excalibur Vol 1 with really getting me into comics so I had to vote for it. Rachel, Kitty, Brian, Kurt, Meggan it really was such an odd and wonderful combination that worked so well.

Same. Excalibur 47 was the first comic I ever bought. Claremont and Davis wrote such wonderful, whimsical, intricate stories and it's the best I've ever seen my favourite mutant. I haven't read any of of Ellis' run, I keep meaning to pick that up and be able to enjoy Excalibur all over again.

Christopher O

01-12-2008, 09:29 PM

I only ever liked Excalibur when Ellis was on it. Not a fan of Claremont. Not a fan of Davis.

Diablito

01-12-2008, 09:37 PM

I liked Genosha Excalibur!

Ann Nichols

01-12-2008, 10:29 PM

I have some issues of "Excalibur" v.1. (original series)
I have no issues of "Excalibur," v.2 (mini-series)
I have every issue of "Excalibur" v.3 (Genosha series)
I have most of "New Excalibur".

Volume 3 is my favorite.

kate-pryde

01-12-2008, 10:37 PM

I attribute Excalibur Vol 1 with really getting me into comics so I had to vote for it. Rachel, Kitty, Brian, Kurt, Meggan it really was such an odd and wonderful combination that worked so well.

I totally agree.

Excalibur (vol 1) was what turned me into an X-book fan. When I started reading comics around 1987, I didn't like the current Uncanny issues (I hated when they brought in Dazzler, Psylocke and Longshot), but I was really liked the back issues with Kitty and Rachel. Then Excalibur came out and it quickly became my favorite comic.

I don't think I would have kept reading X-books had it not been for Excalibur.

jarrod

01-13-2008, 03:15 AM

Excalibur O5 >>>>>>>>>> any other O5*

*except maybe The New Mutants O5

The Sword Is Drawn

01-13-2008, 04:01 AM

For me, no question it was the original Excalibur book. Just so many crazy ideas and humor on every page. And for those who have not read Alan Davis' issues as writer (#42-67), it was his best work IMO.

It probably is, yes. He just had such a great handle on the characters - having been their artist for so long.

NEx could have been such a good book, though... i rather liked the cast. it's just the writing and plotting was awful.

It certainly had the potential. They might not have been natural choices for a line-up, but given work they could have gelled together. It just never happened. This team still felt like strangers towards the end.

my (very small) selection of art from Vol. 1 and NEx...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/jhota42/exwall.jpg

Very cool.

Same. Excalibur 47 was the first comic I ever bought. Claremont and Davis wrote such wonderful, whimsical, intricate stories and it's the best I've ever seen my favourite mutant. I haven't read any of of Ellis' run, I keep meaning to pick that up and be able to enjoy Excalibur all over again.

I really wish it would get traded, but the classic volumes of that are a long way off yet. :(

I totally agree.

Excalibur (vol 1) was what turned me into an X-book fan. When I started reading comics around 1987, I didn't like the current Uncanny issues (I hated when they brought in Dazzler, Psylocke and Longshot), but I was really liked the back issues with Kitty and Rachel. Then Excalibur came out and it quickly became my favorite comic.

I don't think I would have kept reading X-books had it not been for Excalibur.

You and me both. It's funny, because I thought it was just me who found Excalibur first - then the X-Men. But over the last year I've been finding more and more people who did it that way around. That's the kind of impact the book had.

Excalibur O5 >>>>>>>>>> any other O5*

*except maybe The New Mutants O5

Technically, of course, it was kind of an original 6 - if you include Lockheed. ;)

Pro

01-13-2008, 04:20 AM

Excalibur vol.1 without a doubt.
Alan Davis' art for the win. He is a big influence on my own art style.
Crosstimecaper is still one of my all time favorite storyarcs. It's what Exiles should have strived to be.

jarrod

01-13-2008, 05:39 PM

Technically, of course, it was kind of an original 6 - if you include Lockheed. ;)
Lockheed's the Xaiver of Excalibur. ;)

And I guess Widget's... uh... Sage? :P

The Sword Is Drawn

01-13-2008, 05:48 PM

Lockheed's the Xaiver of Excalibur. ;)

You know, after the recent events in Astonishing I'd kind of like Lockheed back ON Excalibur - but as an equal, rather than light relief.

Imagine Pete Wisdom having to treat the little purple sod who annoyed him throughout his tenure in the original Excalibur with a bit of respect... ;)

And I guess Widget's... uh... Sage? :P

No. Widget was far more interesting, had an actual connection to the plot, and a reason to be there.

Sage had none of these things in New Excalibur.

Diablito

01-13-2008, 05:55 PM

I withdraw my vote to Excalibur v3. Any team with Lockheed as a co-founding member is the best team out there.

The Sword Is Drawn

01-13-2008, 05:59 PM

I withdraw my vote to Excalibur v3. Any team with Lockheed as a co-founding member is the best team out there.

Lol. He even got some development on Excalibur. We saw his homeworld for one. Or at least others of his race.

ibrakeforchinwe

01-13-2008, 06:10 PM

Volume 1 rocked. Davis and Claremont are brilliant together.

jarrod

01-13-2008, 06:11 PM

You know, after the recent events in Astonishing I'd kind of like Lockheed back ON Excalibur - but as an equal, rather than light relief.

Imagine Pete Wisdom having to treat the little purple sod who annoyed him throughout his tenure in the original Excalibur with a bit of respect... ;)
It'd be soooooooo perfect! I'd love seeing him interact with Brian too, actually I think they'd likely get on well.

He and Pete might recocile a bit over mourning Kitty too. Unfortunately. :(

No. Widget was far more interesting, had an actual connection to the plot, and a reason to be there.

Sage had none of these things in New Excalibur.
No, I meant Sage as the secret sixth X-Man in Xaiver's basement. Lolz.

Now that I think about it though, I guess the large Dragon in Excalibur's basement would've been a better analog for old Tess. :D