Ms. Marvel #23 *Spoilers*

[drwho]

I read this and this story just seems way too drawn out for me. It should have been two issues. I think this truly shows the writers problems with not knowing what identity to give Carol Danvers. Only reason I'm staying on is its close to the sweet issue 25 cover. It is really sad because I think Ms. Marvel has potential that isn't being touched upon. This issue didn't stand out at all to me as being enjoyable. SleepWalker showed up a little and got beat up on, but not even Machine Man could carry this issue. Anyway Machine Man, Sleep Walker, Arana, And Sum battle the brood while Ms. Marvel battles the Brood queen she thought she killed. Agent Sum plans to blow up the island with the brood with a nuclear bomb he has in their mini helicarrier. Then Cru some how turns Carol back into being Binary powered. Don't ask me how "it is magic".

[Monty_Cristo]

come on Carol. i know you can do better than this. when will she have a Wonder Woman-level rogues gallery? maybe they need to amp up the Grapplers or something.

[XPac]

come on Carol. i know you can do better than this. when will she have a Wonder Woman-level rogues gallery? maybe they need to amp up the Grapplers or something.

She-Hulk has had a solo book for far longer a time, and even she doesn't have much of a rogues gallery at this point.

I don't think you really get a rogues gallery until you've had your own solo for a few decades or something.

That said, amping up the grapplers is a cool idea.

[desanth]

I liked it. I don't know these characters at all and this is the first Ms. Marvel I read but it was enjoyable and I recognized the names of the characters.

I don't know much about Ms. Marvel, just a short backhistory, but I take it that her Binary powers were an innate power that she's had and Cru just awakened them through genetic manipulation.

[Monty_Cristo]

I liked it. I don't know these characters at all and this is the first Ms. Marvel I read but it was enjoyable and I recognized the names of the characters.

I don't know much about Ms. Marvel, just a short backhistory, but I take it that her Binary powers were an innate power that she's had and Cru just awakened them through genetic manipulation.

pretty much, yeah. i think she might have gotten the Binary powers through genetic manipulation, as well. maybe DDM or someone could help me with this.

She-Hulk has had a solo book for far longer a time, and even she doesn't have much of a rogues gallery at this point.

I don't think you really get a rogues gallery until you've had your own solo for a few decades or something.

That said, amping up the grapplers is a cool idea.

Iron Man hadn't been around for decades before he got Justin Hammer and all of those flashy armored super-villains.

[Shyft]

im pretty sure her Binary powers were a NON innate power. She was linked up to a white star, a font of matter and energy in the Universe, and her Binary Powers came from that. So them just suddenly being "awakened" doesnt make much sense. Mind you, she may had been re-infused with them during her fight with The Collective. So who knows.

[XPac]

im pretty sure her Binary powers were a NON innate power. She was linked up to a white star, a font of matter and energy in the Universe, and her Binary Powers came from that. So them just suddenly being "awakened" doesnt make much sense. Mind you, she may had been re-infused with them during her fight with The Collective. So who knows.

I still don't completely understand why her binary powers stopped working in the first place. So I guess I can buy any descent reason for them to start working again.

[Alphaxman]

I still don't completely understand why her binary powers stopped working in the first place. So I guess I can buy any descent reason for them to start working again.

It was the only reason for her to stay on Earth. Marvel didn’t want a female character as strong as her fighting bad guys. So they said when she saved the Sun back during Galactic Storm it somehow drained her powers. :rolleyes: Your right it didn’t make since.

With Sentry running around I hope she keeps this upgrade.

By the way I like this issue but I want this Cur story to be over.

[bjtrdff]

"Iron Man hasn't been around for decades...."


Right......



And I love this WW rogues gallary. Yes, clearly WW has a top notch rogues gallary.

[Cthulhudrew]

I still don't completely understand why her binary powers stopped working in the first place.

I'd have to go and check Avengers v3 #4 (5?) again to be sure, but IIRC, the Beast discovered that her connection to the binary star had dissipated, but that she still retained the ability to absorb energy. Given that, with an ample enough power supply, she could potentially "regain" her Binary status.

[Monty_Cristo]

"Iron Man hasn't been around for decades...."


Right......

if you're going to quote someone, why alter what they wrote?

[DDM]

I liked it. I don't know these characters at all and this is the first Ms. Marvel I read but it was enjoyable and I recognized the names of the characters.

I don't know much about Ms. Marvel, just a short backhistory, but I take it that her Binary powers were an innate power that she's had and Cru just awakened them through genetic manipulation.

Buy The Essential Ms. Marvel TPB (reprints Ms. Marvel #1-23, Marvel Super-Heroes Summer Special, Marvel Super-Heroes Fall Special & Avengers Annual #10)

Carol's backstory is a little complicated. She started out as a supporting character in Captain Marvel; however, her exposure to the Kree Psyche-Magnitron's energies eventually gave Carol similar powers as Mar-Vell eventually becoming Ms. Marvel. However, the process worked too well since it fractured her mind: Carol & Ms. Marvel existed as separate, distinct personalities. Carol is a Kree-human hybrid who possesses the best attributes of both races. After Rogue stole her psyche & powers in Avengers Annual #10, Carol is left with her augmented DNA. The Ms. Marvel psyche would haunt Rogue for years to come as it would gain dominance in Uncanny X-Men #182 & Uncanny X-Men #235-247. Rogue would at last resolve her issues with "Ms. Marvel" in Uncanny X-Men #269 when the Siege Perilous grant's Rogue wish to be separate from Ms. Marvel only to have severe consequences.

The Brood were intrigued Carol's DNA because she is not a baseline human. With the Evolutionary Ray, the Brood unwittingly unleashed the potential of Carol's Kree-human DNA as she became the cosmic mutate Binary. Although still following the Captain Marvel template, Carol is literally one with the cosmos since she tapes into the white hole of a collapsing star from another dimension. Therefore, Carol possesses the powers of a star. As Binary, Carol is a mutant due to her unique DNA. (see Uncanny X-Men #161-167, & Uncanny X-Men #171 for Carol's reaction to Rogue when she joins the X-Men!) Binary would join the Starjammers in Uncanny X-Men #174 & be a supporting character in Uncanny X-Men & The New Mutants.

[DDM]

im pretty sure her Binary powers were a NON innate power. She was linked up to a white star, a font of matter and energy in the Universe, and her Binary Powers came from that. So them just suddenly being "awakened" doesnt make much sense. Mind you, she may had been re-infused with them during her fight with The Collective. So who knows.

A black hole can exist for millions or even billions of years. Carol's link to a white hole, once activated, would mean Carol still has access to her innate power as Binary.

[DDM]

I'd have to go and check Avengers v3 #4 (5?) again to be sure, but IIRC, the Beast discovered that her connection to the binary star had dissipated, but that she still retained the ability to absorb energy. Given that, with an ample enough power supply, she could potentially "regain" her Binary status.

White holes only exist in theory, Carol's link to the white hole & Beast's hypothesis is simply an educated guess. Carol still has her Binary powers, but greatly reduced. The reason is not known.

I believe it's psychological.

[Shyft]

A black hole can exist for millions or even billions of years. Carol's link to a white hole, once activated, would mean Carol still has access to her innate power as Binary.

im sure a black hole can, but considering the fact that the MU doesnt pay attention to any laws of physics, i dont see that as an issue.

[mikeb]

To quote Ironman Vol 3 No 11 dated December 1998-"--And Finally,the collapse of the White-Hole star that fualed the cosmic powers she'd come to wield as Binary--" written by Kurt Busiek.:)

[mikeb]

I have more information from Avengers Vol 3 #41 dated June 2001:"Her name is Carol Danvers.Once she channeled the power of a star.That link has been severed however-Her power is no longer limitless" And Hank Pym,who was testing Miss Danvers at the time says"--But the old wiring's still there,as it were.Given enough of an energy source,you can temporarily boost those power-levels----Kicking them way beyond your baseline abilities" Also written by Kurt Busiek:)

[Flâneur]

I have more information from Avengers Vol 3 #41 dated June 2001:"Her name is Carol Danvers.Once she channeled the power of a star.That link has been severed however-Her power is no longer limitless" And Hank Pym,who was testing Miss Danvers at the time says"--But the old wiring's still there,as it were.Given enough of an energy source,you can temporarily boost those power-levels----Kicking them way beyond your baseline abilities" Also written by Kurt Busiek:)

This was demonstrated in the Collective storyline as well, when Carol absorbs energy from the Collective she briefly becomes Binary.

[CyberCoyote]

It's Magic? :) Oh, that was the OP..

Cru may have somehow connected her inner circuits to another power source that she knew of. I'm sure it'll be explained.

I like the Binary level, but not as a 24-7 situation. She's like a Galactican Herald in this form. Here's hoping it's not something she can rise up to at the drop of a hat, that there'll be some backlash to it so she can only do it from time to time or at least be exhausted after a while.

Be that as it may, knowing this was coming got me to start buying the book again after a long hiatus (well, about a year), and I liked the issue a lot :p

[Arilou]

I like the idea that her heightened power-state is connected to her energy-absorption. IE: If she absorbs a lot of power she eventually goes Binary.

This would be a good enough limitation (as against non-energy using enemies she'd still be "only" her regular class 50 brick) but throw enough energy at her and she temporarily gets huge amounts of power.

[DDM]

Brian Reed does not understand Carol Danvers at all. First of all, Binary is not some kind of monster the Brood created. Carol loved her Binary form & powers. She knows how to command such vast cosmic powers, yet know her responsiblity as she shown in the Brood storyline referenced from Uncanny X-Men #162-167.

Binary is a super Carol Danvers.

The 4 other supporting character should have been easily overwhelmed by the Brood hatchlings too.

Brian Reed needs to leave Ms. Marvel.

5/10

[DDM]

I like the Binary level, but not as a 24-7 situation. She's like a Galactican Herald in this form. Here's hoping it's not something she can rise up to at the drop of a hat, that there'll be some backlash to it so she can only do it from time to time or at least be exhausted after a while.

Carol only transformed into her Binary state when needed. However, even when she's not powered-up as Binary such as The New Mutants #50, Carol could still throw star bolts. Yes, as Binary, she possessed even greater powers than some of Galactus' Heralds. Carol could lift (press) 100 tons into physical strength. She could also travel at light speed, make space warps, & possess the power of a star to radiate & use any kind of energy as she chooses. Carol could also exist in the vacuum of space without harm as Binary.

I like Carol as Binary. However, I believe Kurt Busiek could not write Carol as Binary for some reason; therefore, he had to half her powers & make her an alcoholic. Any good writer would know how to write Binary if they wanted to.

[Hulkamaniac]

dropped this sack of crap along time ago. This title has turned into the title I will only buy when it has tie-ins to the broader story lines that I'm interested in. Otherwise its a waist of money IMHO.

[DDM]

Only reason I'm staying on is its close to the sweet issue 25 cover.

Could you post the Ms. Marvel #25 cover?

[Dr. Chaos]

This title once again dissapoints me like a redheaded stepchild.

I guess I'll continue to get my Ms. Marvel costume fix from Mighty.

[Mark_S]

It's not really that bad. Part of the problem is that thanks to MA and WWH we already know that Carol will stabalize her powers-and that they won't do any good against the Warbound-but in the meantime the book is ok. It's just a lot of the suspense is gone because of that. I enjoy the book and this is from someone who doesn't like the main character-I think she used cw to get where she is today and did so over the beaten bodies of friends and former fellow Avengers, and was willing to do far more as shown with the trap she laid down the for NA using caps body. But apart from the fact that she doesn't spend nearly enough time each issue getting beat up the book itself is a solid read with a good supporting cast. To be honest I didn't pick it up this week, I didn't have enough money. I did give it a quick read through though.

I'm not sure I like the idea of SHIELD vehicles with mini-nukes on board to self destruct, I mean do they really need that much destruction? But then this is SHIELD. If the ship gets blown up and some people get sick or die from fall out... well tough. SHIELD has to worry about its security first, innocent life second.

And I'm really enjoying Machine Man/Woman.

Mark_S

[jonwes]

I dropped the title for a while, but I just tried to catch up with it. It's very much the same. It's ALMOST there, but frustrating all the same. There are definitely elements I enjoy, but I'm sick of Carol being so confused all the time and doing shady things. I'm all for flawed heroes, but Carol needs to be shown on the top of her game SOMETIMES.

[Mark_S]

I dropped the title for a while, but I just tried to catch up with it. It's very much the same. It's ALMOST there, but frustrating all the same. There are definitely elements I enjoy, but I'm sick of Carol being so confused all the time and doing shady things. I'm all for flawed heroes, but Carol needs to be shown on the top of her game SOMETIMES.

Yea, but she works for SHIELD and when she's not doing that she's running the Avenger's for Tony. It's hard to get away from the shady stuff when you have those jobs. Still the book is getting better, it'll find its stride sooner or later.

Mark_S

[mikeb]

I think Mr. Busiek cut the ties to the White Hole to bring her home to earth ;from the space exile Chris Claremont put her nearly 15 years before.The Alcoholic problem was her way of coping with the loss of something that had given her years of stability and security.Poof!Its gone! Carol has a history of running away from her insecurity.Whether it to the Air Force,Outer Space,or the Bottle.(When she said in "Ms.Marvel#10"And I'm NOT going to run away from Anything...ever again" I laughed:D )What I'm waiting for from Mr. Reed is a story that deals with Carol and her parents.At this point way back when Chris Claremont wrote the first series he wrote a story dealing with Carol and her parents.:(

[DDM]

I think Mr. Busiek cut the ties to the White Hole to bring her home to earth ;from the space exile Chris Claremont put her nearly 15 years before.The Alcoholic problem was her way of coping with the loss of something that had given her years of stability and security.Poof!Its gone! Carol has a history of running away from her insecurity.Whether it to the Air Force,Outer Space,or the Bottle.(When she said in "Ms.Marvel#10"And I'm NOT going to run away from Anything...ever again" I laughed:D )What I'm waiting for from Mr. Reed is a story that deals with Carol and her parents.At this point way back when Chris Claremont wrote the first series he wrote a story dealing with Carol and her parents.:(

Not true. She dealt with her emotional loss of her memories while on Earth & found she could not recreate them such as her talk with Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men #150 (Carol could not remember her time with Wolverine as a spy), her staying with her family in Boston shown in Uncanny X-Men #171 (Carol's mother sensed something different about Carol, but could not figure out what) & the final straw that broke the camel's back is when Carol learned of Mar-Vell's death from cancer in an issue of Marvel Fanfare (prior to Rogue stealing her psyche & powers, Ms. Marvel had a connection with Captain Marvel; she transforms into Binary & finds Mar-Vell's grave after visiting Mentor on Titan).

Rogue has all of Carol's emotional ties--not Carol herself. The best thing for her to do was to leave Earth because nothing remained to keep her there.

[Fatguy]

come on Carol. i know you can do better than this. when will she have a Wonder Woman-level rogues gallery? maybe they need to amp up the Grapplers or something.

I think she already DOES have a Wonder Woman-level rogues gallery...AKA a bunch of lame villains :p

[drwho]

Could you post the Ms. Marvel #25 cover?

The only thing keeping me on this freaking book.

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0308/MSMARVEL025.jpg

[DDM]

The only thing keeping me on this freaking book.

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0308/MSMARVEL025.jpg


Wow, nice cover.

However, if we readers learn that the Carol Danvers we've been reading is a Skrull, well that's just crappy writing too.

[Mark_S]

Wow, nice cover.

However, if we readers learn that the Carol Danvers we've been reading is a Skrull, well that's just crappy writing too.

When has that ever stopped Marvel? Secret Invasion is going to have a lot of that I think, with characters suddenly being skrulls despite thinking that they were not. For myself I'll bet she is not a skrull, but that a skrull has been impersonating her at times.

Mark_S

[CyberCoyote]

Wow, nice cover.

However, if we readers learn that the Carol Danvers we've been reading is a Skrull, well that's just crappy writing too.

It'd suck. they said a MAJOR book would be cancelled, don't think MS M is in the top 20, though.

Maybe the OTHER Carol.. the psycho killer one will be a Skrull? If they say this was a Skrull the whole time and bring the real Carol forward.. well.. too late. And remember, Reed writes it, but BENDIS! is the one who has ultimate control over the character and dictates certain things. I feel for Reed, he'd be better without the influence I think.

[DDM]

It'd suck. they said a MAJOR book would be cancelled, don't think MS M is in the top 20, though.

Maybe the OTHER Carol.. the psycho killer one will be a Skrull? If they say this was a Skrull the whole time and bring the real Carol forward.. well.. too late. And remember, Reed writes it, but BENDIS! is the one who has ultimate control over the character and dictates certain things. I feel for Reed, he'd be better without the influence I think.

Brian Reed should be able to dictate to some extent about everything Ms. Marvel since he writes Ms. Marvel; Bendis should be using what happens in Ms. Marvel.

Bendis, Bendis, Ben diss.

[Monty_Cristo]

i want to see a mentoring relationship between Carol and Ultra-Girl.

[Tobias Drake]

i want to see a mentoring relationship between Carol and Ultra-Girl.

I want to see more of the mentoring relationship Carol is supposed to have with Arana.

[Monty_Cristo]

I want to see more of the mentoring relationship Carol is supposed to have with Arana.

that was bogus from the start. their power sets aren't comparable. what exactly is Carol supposed to be teaching her?

[drwho]

Carol is too messed up in the head to be teaching anyone anything useful. ;)

[Mark_S]

Maybe Carol should have been the DI for Camp Hammond.

Mark_S

[Monty_Cristo]

Maybe Carol should have been the DI for Camp Hammond.

Mark_S

i'd pretend to be a superhero just to stare at her rear for a few days. if MVP could do it, i'm sure that i could set the new course record for the obstacle course. :D

[DDM]

Carol is too messed up in the head to be teaching anyone anything useful. ;)

I know you're being snarky, but there's an element of truth here such as Carol's psyche splitting in two as Carol Danvers & Ms. Marvel for most of her original Ms. Marvel #1-19 then Ms. Marvel's encounter with Rogue which changed both their lives forever in the classic Avengers Annual #10...

Carol Danvers can NEVER really recover what she lost to Rogue that day. She's still Carol Danvers, but pieces of her are missing & will never be the same. Rogue possessed those traits until Uncanny X-Men #269...

[drwho]

Well i'm basing my opinion on the current series. I'd love to see Carol Danvers be viewed more like Superman and have a more can do it attitude and lets kick @SS than what I'm seeing here. If she behaved like she did in House of M i'd be loving this series. On a serious note though if she did turn out to be a Skrull would that piss you all off, or not?

[Monty_Cristo]

Well i'm basing my opinion on the current series. I'd love to see Carol Danvers be viewed more like Superman and have a more can do it attitude and lets kick @SS than what I'm seeing here. If she behaved like she did in House of M i'd be loving this series. On a serious note though if she did turn out to be a Skrull would that piss you all off, or not?

wouldn't piss me off as long as the real Carol Danvers returns to kick some @$$.