How were Hulk's footsteps destroying the Eastcoast?

[cappa donna]

I don't understand how he was doing it. :confused:

[Sam T.]

Pure, raw POWER!

[Drdmx]

Go get a chocolate chip cookie. Break it in half. That would be what his footsteps were doing to the U.S.

Clarification: Yes it must be chocolate chip.

[Brad Barton]

By being the strongest one there is, that's how.

Long answer: I think Pak was making an allegory to the "Worldbreaker" moniker that had stuck with Hulk since the beginning of Planet Hulk. He'd been called "Worldbreaker" for the better part of two years by the end of WWH, I guess Pak decided it would be cool to make that a potentially literal title.

So, he was called "Worldbreaker" because he actually had the power to break the world. Pretty simple.

[Dr. Chaos]

Maybe, perhaps that was a look into the very peak of The Hulk's anger.

And of course after punking out The Sentry, he felt like showing off a little.

[Drdmx]

Maybe, perhaps that was a look into the very peak of The Hulk's anger.

And of course after punking out The Sentry, he felt like showing off a little.

ZOMG he said Sentry in a Hulk thread! Quick, someone say THOR!

[Dr. Chaos]

Is Sentry a naughty word now in WWH related discussions?

[DeadXMan]

Is Sentry a naughty word now in WWH related discussions?

the entire existence of sentry is naughty

anyway.....

hulk held up a freaking mountain twice the size of everest, so breaking a tectonic plate is easy

[Brad Barton]

hulk held up a freaking mountain twice the size of everest, so breaking a tectonic plate is easyYeah, that and:

Occurence: Marvel Comics Presents # 52

Three young aliens are playing a game in outer space and knock an asteroid twice the size of Earth into a collision path with it. The Hulk, with the help of a anti-magnetic jet pack, launches into space and destroys the asteroid with a single punch.
http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/asteroidstrength.jpg

So stomping off one measley seaboard? Bah.

[Drdmx]

He was just holding back right there...

[DeadXMan]

http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/asteroidstrength.jpg




......Rocket springs?

[dabig2]

With the raging fury of gamma energy of course! The most vicious of energy in the universe.

[dabig2]

With the raging fury of gamma energy of course! The most vicious of energy in the universe.

[ukblueky]

Because over the years the Hulk's strength has become overblown and fanboys believe that nothing is impossible to the Hulk-if you can think it Hulk can do it.Go back and read the older Hulk comics he is nothing like he is today.If he can now destroy the eastern seaboard with his footsteps then how did he not cause more devastation than that whenever he landed from one of his cross country jumps? And people gripe about how stupid of a character Sentry is and then rant about how cool Hulk is...puh-lese....If I have to hear about how overpowered Sentry is one more time from some Hulk fanboy who doesn't blink when told that the Hulk can destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth with one punch while wearing spring shoes I will have an aneurysm.

[illwill112]

go back to the older comics of the hulk. WE should it has always been stated the hulks strenght came from his anger. In none of the the older comics was his world unborn child and wife killed. You can always say his strenght was limitless cause of the unknow factor of hsi anger. You cant place a number on that. Can the hulk be vere more pwoerfult han he is now i dont think so. Dont know what can make him mader than what happend to him in wwh. Its not the hulk fanboys are the worst part its the other fan boys who can't seem to except the the fact the hulk is that bad a@@ and has finally got his time to shine.

[dabig2]

Because over the years the Hulk's strength has become overblown and fanboys believe that nothing is impossible to the Hulk-if you can think it Hulk can do it.Go back and read the older Hulk comics he is nothing like he is today.If he can now destroy the eastern seaboard with his footsteps then how did he not cause more devastation than that whenever he landed from one of his cross country jumps? And people gripe about how stupid of a character Sentry is and then rant about how cool Hulk is...puh-lese....If I have to hear about how overpowered Sentry is one more time from some Hulk fanboy who doesn't blink when told that the Hulk can destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth with one punch while wearing spring shoes I will have an aneurysm.

Dynamic strength based on his disposition is the name of the game son. That's why he doesn't stomp through the earth everytime he takes a step. Just depends on his mood. And his mood at the end of WWH was a special once in a lifetime type of mood.

[ukblueky]

Then why have Hulk fight anyone? Whats the point of a Hulk comic? If Hulk is sooo bad @$$ that he can punch planets in half and shatter planets with his footsteps then what chance does any living creature have against him.The idea that he can do any of these is so mind numblingly insane that even for comic book logic it hurts ones brain to think about it.If he can shatter worlds by punching them then why hasn't every opponent he EVER punched exploded into millions of pieces or turned every bone in their bodies to powder? And don't reply that he wasn't angry enough then because in WWH he was angrier than ever because that panel that is posted on this thread is certainly not from WWH.

[dabig2]

Then why have Hulk fight anyone? Whats the point of a Hulk comic? If Hulk is sooo bad @$$ that he can punch planets in half and shatter planets with his footsteps then what chance does any living creature have against him.The idea that he can do any of these is so mind numblingly insane that even for comic book logic it hurts ones brain to think about it.If he can shatter worlds by punching them then why hasn't every opponent he EVER punched exploded into millions of pieces or turned every bone in their bodies to powder? And don't reply that he wasn't angry enough then because in WWH he was angrier than ever because that panel that is posted on this thread is certainly not from WWH.

Lot of pent-up anger eh? Relax friend. Anyways, if you're talking about the feat of punching the big-ass asteroid, it's quite simply because it's a silver age feat.

Simple as that.

[ukblueky]

Lot of pent-up anger eh? Relax friend. Anyways, if you're talking about the feat of punching the big-ass asteroid, it's quite simply because it's a silver age feat.

Simple as that.

Nah I don't have pent up anger,in fact I am rather mellow.It's just that I can't figure out the Hulk character and what his purpose is.Also Hulk fanboys are usually the hardest to deal with on any message board because they will vehemetly defend the Hulk and think no feat is impossible to the Hulk character.They also seem to have huge issues with the Sentry character (who I find to be extremely more interesting than the one dimensional Hulk character).Their arguments with the Sentry character is that he is overpowered-also they say this of Superman.Which this argument seems so stupid coming from them because the Hulk character has no limits it seems.That and I'm still angry at myself for being sucked into the WWH hype machine and buying that pointless and boring piece of crap.If anyone can tell me what the point of WWH was I would be grateful.To me all that I can see that came of it is Hercules got his own book and there is gonna be a "new" Hulk....WOW...Come On it was hyped as ONE OF THE DEFINING EVENTS OF THE MARVEL U FOR '07.....whatever...the events of it were not even mentioned in the other books.Sorry for the rant I just feel like Marvel played me for a sucker.Well thats what I get for buying a book about the HULK.

[Sam T.]

The Hulk did not punk out the Sentry...it was a tie!

[Drdmx]

That and I'm still angry at myself for being sucked into the WWH hype machine and buying that pointless and boring piece of crap.

And yet here you are... posting on a WWH forum. What were you hoping for? And the Fanboys are the problem?

[DeadXMan]

The Hulk did not punk out the Sentry...it was a tie!

Nope the savage Banner defeated the sentry

Sentry is all talk

[Superbeast]

The Hulk did not punk out the Sentry...it was a tie!

Who got KO'd?

Who powered back up and tore Miek a new ass while the other was counting sheep?

Hulk won. Bottom line.

[Sam T.]

Who got KO'd?

Who powered back up and tore Miek a new ass while the other was counting sheep?

Hulk won. Bottom line.

The Sentry let him win.

[Superbeast]

The Sentry let him win.

Riiiight. Of course.

[tjarvis]

The Sentry let him win.

The Sentry did not let the Hulk win, there is no evidence in the comic to really support that.

Although it would be a pretty easy retcon for a future writer to take if they wanted.

Pak wanted the Hulk to win the fight clean and fair and to be "The Strongest One There Is"

Even if he had to nerf the Sentry and his abilities in the process to do that.

[DeadXMan]

how can we say he nerfed his powers when this is the first time we seen them use in a nonflashback/retcon.

even in those instences they kinda lame.
He fought Galaticus to a stand still, big deal Thor Made Big G turn tail and run.

[Brad Barton]

The Hulk's as strong as the writer needs him to be, period.

Not all characters have that advantage. Someone like Spidey, Cap or Wolverine have set strength paremeters that, if you went too far outside them, it would seem ridiculous and not in keeping with the continuity of the character. However, in the minds of the writers, Hulk's strength doesn't have those parameters. That's one of the things that makes the character what he is -- Marvel's epitome of ultimate physical strength in a single, Jekyll & Hyde being -- That's Hulk's niche.

That's probably one benfit of writing the character; as cool a feat of strength as you can dream up, Hulk can credibly pull off. That's one of the roles he fills.

[DeadXMan]

I call BS on that
Logan is in "god mode" in most of his stories now
&] Cap KO the hulk with a right cross

[Brad Barton]

I call BS on thatYou can call BS till you're blue in the face; the fact is, Hulk is as strong as the writer needs him to be, end of story.

[DeadXMan]

it hard to make the hulk strong as the writer wants him to be when the editorial mandate is that he is the strongest there is.

[Brad Barton]

the editorial mandate is that he is the strongest there is.Well, that being the case, the Hulk is capable of pulling off damn near any feat that the story requires. His powers, much like Dr. Strange's, very much have that plot-device ridden element. Fortunately for me, that's not the reason I like the character.

I don't like the Hulk because he's strong enough to smash everything, I like the Banner/Hulk dichotomy. The notion of a man struggling to contain a power he can't control. His "strong as ya need him" powers are an outgrowth of that, they punctuate exactly why Banner is as fearful of himself as he is; The Hulk is the epitome of raw, unleashed physical power, with no emotional restraint. (as Thor or Strange might use, which ultimately curbs their powers somewhat.)

He's lifted Mountains on his back, Pulled Planets back together with his bare hands and beaten damn near every Superhero in the MU half to death, all In the Bronze-Modern age...I don't see why any feat of strength he exhibits after those would be considered not credible.

And as far as Cap supposedly "left-hooking" Hulk to a knock-out (I've never seen that issue, but I don't doubt it exists) you can chalk that up to another instance of Hulk being as strong as the writer needed him to be. In this case, he needed Hulk to be weak enough for Cap to be able to knock him out, so he was.

It's not science, people. It's comics.

[DeadXMan]

It was in fallen: spider-man
I asked one of the fill-in editors about that in the newsarama's Joe fridays
and he said Lobe made it up .

now that's a case of strong as the writer wants him to be

:mad:

[xarathos]

It was Global Warming!

It's the same reason the temperature is going to go from 20 degrees to 87 degrees from now to July. It's the same reason there is frozen water coming out the sky that looks exactly like snow flakes, the same ones that have come down every year for the last 20 years!

It was global warming that destroyed the east coast, not the Hulk.

[dabig2]

And as far as Cap supposedly "left-hooking" Hulk to a knock-out (I've never seen that issue, but I don't doubt it exists) you can chalk that up to another instance of Hulk being as strong as the writer needed him to be. In this case, he needed Hulk to be weak enough for Cap to be able to knock him out, so he was.

This story was told as a recollection by Spiderman. Spidey has gone through so many changes and retcons, he obviously just can't tell fiction from reality anymore. He was probably smoking the same stuff telling that story as when he claimed Sentry stalemated Galactus.... ;)

[steve2275]

Go get a chocolate chip cookie. Break it in half. That would be what his footsteps were doing to the U.S.

Clarification: Yes it must be chocolate chip.

mmm my fave kind

[Trey]

Thor!!!!!!!

[mr.tluv]

I think the whole Hulk appeal is due to the fact that everyone moments where you're so pissed that you wish you could beat the crap out of someone or like the old Hulk show, lift a car off someone when a friend is in trouble.

He has limits. I'm cool with that. He can't fly at the speed of light or backwards so fast where the earth rotation is reversed.

I think when you make a character all powerful then what's the next step?


And yes, Sentry took a beat down, curled up and laid like a little sleepy baby

[Hulk Strongest One]

Yeah, that and:


http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/asteroidstrength.jpg

So stomping off one measley seaboard? Bah.

And clapping away a galaxy-destroying blast is far greater than that, than that is over picking a petunia.

It's not logical, it's Comic Book Physics, which has it's own category of awfulness on the Bad Movie Physics web page (IIRC, The Core still leads in Worst Movie Physics Of All Time). See also the Bad Astronomy web page for more hours of reading fun.

Problem with the 2x size of Earth asteroid story:

1. It's way outside the Hulk's usual range of operation. If his body could even remotely impart that much energy without (himself) being vaporized, the paltry punches by Thor or the Thing shouldn't even be noticed.

2. An "asteroid" 2x the size of Earth would have pulled itself into a round ball, and not look like a typical jaggy asteroid at all. This clearly was wildly jaggy (you even see sedimentary stratification, another indication of smallish size) and thus could not have been more than a few score of miles or so in diameter, max.

3. As with the two "giant comet hitting the Earth" movies from a few years ago, you can't just bust it apart a few seconds from impact and expect that the fragments won't continue to plow down through the Earth.

4. An "asteroid" 2x the size of Earth (apparently they mean linearly, from the drawing) would thus be 8x as massive, and would thus basically destroy the Earth's crust at that point, even if its fragments didn't hit. It would also have induced storms the likes of which the Thunder God never created in the entire 4+ billion year history of Earth.


Et al., ad nauseum. :)

[Phil Hunn]

This "breaking the world with his feet" thing is the whole reason the Hulk will never be a contestant on Dancing With The Stars.

Pity, really, since seeing him do the cha-cha-cha of the foxtrot with She-Hulk would be highly amusing ;)

[DeadXMan]

if we painted Lou and China green, would that be an acceptable substitute?

[wolfblade]

I dont really think he used his feet I just think he was so enraged that he was leaking out massive quantaties of gamma radiation so much so that the earth begain to tear itsealf appart. at least massive amounts of energy in a living gamma bomb would make more sense than a step of doom senerio.

[Camron Amaya]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p

[mr.tluv]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p

Thats a profoundly dumb statement. If like saying, Thor wouldn't be crap if he wasn't a Asguardian or Spidey would be a punk if he didn't have the ability to scale walls. His healing factor is an attribute just like any other hero.

If you were talking about Iron Man, you're statement would make a little more sense. If he didn't have his armor, he would be a punk, but the Hulk's healing factor is apart of him.

[Archmage]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p


Yep, that's to match Thor's hammer. Without the hammer, Thor would be the biggest pansy of all.. :evilsmile

[dabig2]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p

If anything, the healing factor has weakened his durability considerably. Without it, he'd just be durable to take what the Thor can.

And at least the Hulk can take a gunshot ;)

yeah yeah, Thor relaunch yeah yeah, lol

[wolfblade]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p

what in the blue blazes does this have to do with the thread topic I mean I have hered of off track but damn man thats not even on track go to a hulk bashing fourm for that.

[Kutulu]

I have always gone with the idea that the Hulk is tapping into some kind of ambient energy which allows these outlandish feats.

This would be the same green energy surrounding him that was shown when he was converted into "War", a horseman for Apocalypse - the green energy nimbus surrounded him then as well.

Typically the energy fields such as that when they are shown indicate that the hero / villain is tapping into some kind of cosmic energy. For example when Thanos surrounds his body in a nimbus of purple light, he's amping up his physical characteristics using his vast pool of cosmic energy.

Same type of thing here, the Hulk is obviously more than just pure physical force.

[Drdmx]

Same type of thing here, the Hulk is obviously more than just pure physical force.

I was actually giving some thought to this today. When Sentry tells Hulk that "He's the only one who he can hit like this", and then belts him... I'm thinking - "Wow, Hulk can apparently hang with Galactus since Sentry made him turn tail and run."

I liked how JRJR drew the series. He's not my favorite, but I can see that most of his time goes into the big pictures for that impact and scale. Examples that come to mind is when Hulk is leaping at Blackbolt. You see dust particles from his movement, and debris floating off into space in a near zero gravity environment. I really do appreciate an artist with attention to detail.

So back to the Hulks energy level. I mean, he took Sentrys best, all that energy he expended trying to take out the Hulk ("Goodbye old friend"...) and Hulk stood up to it. I mean, he filled the streets with his power, a huge funnel of energy coming down on the Hulk and he takes that? Awesome. That speaks volumes to me of his true capabilities in the MU, and makes me appreciate him a little more. :)

[prodigy]

Wait... When did Sentry and Galactus ever fight?

I keep hearing it was mentioned off-panel in a Spider-Man book...


Edit : And to answer the thread (cuz this is what I think the threadstarter meant) Hulk's footsteps beating up the east coast... it's like dropping an SUV on a, flimsy wooden floor. Each of his steps was pounding on the ground. Take your foot and stomp really hard on something weak. Kinda like that. Except... Hulk was so strong he didn't need to stomp. He just had to walk. The strength in his legs (powered by his anger) made him powerful enough to break stuff just by a mere touch (i.e. like trying to.... um... well I remember Goku from Dragon Ball Z got so powerful once when he was trying to hold a glass cup he kept breaking it - like that).

[Kutulu]

Wait... When did Sentry and Galactus ever fight?

I keep hearing it was mentioned off-panel in a Spider-Man book...


Edit : And to answer the thread (cuz this is what I think the threadstarter meant) Hulk's footsteps beating up the east coast... it's like dropping an SUV on a, flimsy wooden floor. Each of his steps was pounding on the ground. Take your foot and stomp really hard on something weak. Kinda like that. Except... Hulk was so strong he didn't need to stomp. He just had to walk. The strength in his legs (powered by his anger) made him powerful enough to break stuff just by a mere touch (i.e. like trying to.... um... well I remember Goku from Dragon Ball Z got so powerful once when he was trying to hold a glass cup he kept breaking it - like that).

The Galactus / Sentry fight was only referenced as an off-panel event by Spiderman. It was never stated what the circumstances were surrounding the fight, for example whether Galactus was weak / hungry / starving (even the Fantastic Four could knock him down when he was starving).

[Hulk Strongest One]

He was given the insane healing factor so he could hang with guys like Thor who survive the same things he does...without it

Without that he's a punk :p

Quite the opposite. The insane healing factor allows writers to have him be badly damaged, only to recover quickly and get back into fighting.

Without it, he'd be a lot more resistant to damage, from a writer's point of view.

Oh, wait. You meant in-story reasons!

Nevermind! :)

[Gnarl]

"An asteroid twice the size of earth" is a nonsense statement.

There is no such thin, nor can there be. It would pull itself into a spher long before getting to even the size of the moon. And so cease to be an asteroid.

It'd be a planetoid, and if even bigger, a planet. Not an asteroid, that is just nonsense.

And seeing Thor without his Åsgårdianness would be cool! He is the son of Gaea, let him function with only the powers he got from his mother, and follow the rules for Elder Gods for a while! (That is a type, in this case not an age-statement)

[prodigy]

The Galactus / Sentry fight was only referenced as an off-panel event by Spiderman.
...lol I already said that. I meant which issue did Spidey say this in?

[gorthon616]

The Galactus / Sentry fight was only referenced as an off-panel event by Spiderman. It was never stated what the circumstances were surrounding the fight, for example whether Galactus was weak / hungry / starving (even the Fantastic Four could knock him down when he was starving).

Hopefully, now that Spidey got retconned he never said this, thus all evidence of this is gone, and hence it never happened.

[gorthon616]

I have always gone with the idea that the Hulk is tapping into some kind of ambient energy which allows these outlandish feats.

This would be the same green energy surrounding him that was shown when he was converted into "War", a horseman for Apocalypse - the green energy nimbus surrounded him then as well.

Typically the energy fields such as that when they are shown indicate that the hero / villain is tapping into some kind of cosmic energy. For example when Thanos surrounds his body in a nimbus of purple light, he's amping up his physical characteristics using his vast pool of cosmic energy.

Same type of thing here, the Hulk is obviously more than just pure physical force.

I don't think it's ambient energy, but internal. For me, I always assumed that Hulk worked sort of like a nuclear reactor (without being nuclear). As he get's madder he gets unstable, breaking matter bonds in his body, releasing energy. Because he's not designed to project this in anyway, it just is reflected in physical strength, the only natural means of expressing it. Normal levels of angers, show of the normal Hulk. What we saw in WWH, was him cutting loose to an extent that he has never, and isn't capable of, releasing purely through physical force and hence we get the energy aura. As for how it worked itself, I'd assume it's a sort of positive feedback loop. As he get's madder he matter bonds break in his body, but as the energy is unleashed the matter of his body grows, hence the process feeds itself so long as nothing breaks his anger.

[Drdmx]

"An asteroid twice the size of earth" is a nonsense statement.

There is no such thin, nor can there be. It would pull itself into a spher long before getting to even the size of the moon. And so cease to be an asteroid.

It'd be a planetoid, and if even bigger, a planet. Not an asteroid, that is just nonsense.

And seeing Thor without his Åsgårdianness would be cool! He is the son of Gaea, let him function with only the powers he got from his mother, and follow the rules for Elder Gods for a while! (That is a type, in this case not an age-statement)

Its a comic book. Real world physics such as "it would be a planetoid" dont apply. Crazy things such as massive feats of strength usually occur in Hulk titles.

[Berkey]

This whole Sentry/Hulk thing is never gonna end and is getting quite old. The Hulk and the Sentry are both powerful on unmeasurable scales and on one day one can be more powerful than the other. One might of fought Galactus one might blow up asteroids it doesn't matter. The problem wth people defending the hulk (I shouldn't say problem) is that the Hulk has been around for 40+ solid years with many comics and many stories. It was always was the Hulk and Thor the strongest (strength wise) and people were fine with that. The problem lies in the Sentry comming out of nowhere with a tiny background and power greater than anyone else. It's a simple tactic that the two big do(MARVEL/DC) they copy certain characters to compensate for the popularity. (Deathstroke/ Deadpool, Lobo/Wolverine so on and so forth) now the Sentry comes in as Marvels superman, which is fine, but they didn't build the character up at all and made him too big too fast creating a negative fan base. The Hulk might have changed over the years, but hes put his time in and has had so many stories in so many diffrent comics that long time and not so long time fans are ok with the fact that he is that powerful. I'm a huge Hulk fan, but I don't mind the Sentry (even though I hate him in a sense because of the bad build up)he can make for a good read if they just put him in the level as Thor like it use to be years ago. I could live with Hulk/Thor/Sentry being able to battle with each other and each haveing victories on diffrent days. If the Sentry is supposed to be so mega-powered the only way his character can survive is if he goes cosmic and heads to space.

[Gadget3440]

Heartbeats. That one possible answer to the original question and the only one I can think of that doesn't take HUlk outside of the purely physical.

The heart's a muscle so when Hulk gets angry and stronger something has to happen to the heart. Perhap his heart was sending the blood around his body at such a force that the subsequent vibrations were crazy enough to produce earthquakes and repel things away from him.

The only other idea I have is that Hulk was leaking a tonnage of gamma energy or something, however, the implications of that would take Hulk outside of the purely physical.

[Gnarl]

Its a comic book. Real world physics such as "it would be a planetoid" dont apply. Crazy things such as massive feats of strength usually occur in Hulk titles.

Even a comic book need to maintain suspension of disbelief. When a writer makes such an obvious foul, the story just goes out the window.

If a story had a jetliner disintegrate over the atlantic, and the passengers managed to save themselves by flapping their arms because "You are lighter over an ocean" it would not be evidence that humans in the MU have levitation powers, just that the writer got stupid.

[Berkey]

Its a comic book. Real world physics such as "it would be a planetoid" dont apply. Crazy things such as massive feats of strength usually occur in Hulk titles.

Agreed, because plain and simple it's a comic book nothing about it is real. Who cares if you break the laws of physics if you have mutants, Cosmic beings, magic etc... If the comic title was based around a semi-truthful (based in real time/real reality) then yes physics would have to apply to make the story work, but in this case who cares as long as the story is good. It's just like when people talk under water or in space or any sound in space for that matter. The best way to enjoy the story is to forget about the chains of reaity and allow the imagination take over.

[Gnarl]

Agreed, because plain and simple it's a comic book nothing about it is real. Who cares if you break the laws of physics if you have mutants, Cosmic beings, magic etc... If the comic title was based around a semi-truthful (based in real time/real reality) then yes physics would have to apply to make the story work, but in this case who cares as long as the story is good. It's just like when people talk under water or in space or any sound in space for that matter. The best way to enjoy the story is to forget about the chains of reaity and allow the imagination take over.

Casually making a hash of well-known laws of physics means that you cannot have a good story.

And the fact that there are people with superpowers in the story is not an excuse!

We all agree to suspend out disbelief on the presence of superpowers when we pick up the book, because that is what the story is about. This does not in any way brand us as second-rate people who does not deserve a good story.

The key phrase here is internal consistency. If there had been a mutant present with the power to make soild light objects, who had made the thing, it would have been internaly consistent with the established setting.

Just because there are people like Spider-Man and Daedevil in the universe, does not mean that the moon can be made of green cheese, the sun can revolve around the earth, or the oceans made of coca-cola. A good story needs a logical framework, and if you don't even have the basic phisics working, you cant have that.

There are actually plenty of good novels and shows about people with superpowers out there. Saga of the Exiles, Cat, Heroes, Wild Cards, Known Space, etc. In sci-fi they are normally called psi, but it is the same thing. None of them feel they have a licence to casually disregard the way the world works. In all of them, the world fuctions as usual, but with an additional set of rules governing powers added, and futher extrapolations of science in some cases. Impossible objects does not appear for no reason.

[Berkey]

Casually making a hash of well-known laws of physics means that you cannot have a good story.

And the fact that there are people with superpowers in the story is not an excuse!

We all agree to suspend out disbelief on the presence of superpowers when we pick up the book, because that is what the story is about. This does not in any way brand us as second-rate people who does not deserve a good story.

The key phrase here is internal consistency. If there had been a mutant present with the power to make soild light objects, who had made the thing, it would have been internaly consistent with the established setting.

Just because there are people like Spider-Man and Daedevil in the universe, does not mean that the moon can be made of green cheese, the sun can revolve around the earth, or the oceans made of coca-cola. A good story needs a logical framework, and if you don't even have the basic phisics working, you cant have that.

There are actually plenty of good novels and shows about people with superpowers out there. Saga of the Exiles, Cat, Heroes, Wild Cards, Known Space, etc. In sci-fi they are normally called psi, but it is the same thing. None of them feel they have a licence to casually disregard the way the world works. In all of them, the world fuctions as usual, but with an additional set of rules governing powers added, and futher extrapolations of science in some cases. Impossible objects does not appear for no reason.

I understand where you're comming from and I agree some stories benifit from using correct reality based physics and other benifit from not using them. But my point is it's basically in the eye of the beholder whether you like the laws of physics included in the story or not, because sometime you can't bring all those laws in correctly in certain situations. In the movie "Who Frammed Roger Rabbit" (great movie BTW) we see cartoons comming into real life, which of course is not real, but if the cartoons had to follow real time physics then they couldn'y do what they did in the movies like stop in mid-air or stop for a few seconds after they run off the side of a cliff and have time to look down and finnaly go. In some situations you sometimes are able to just allow things that cannot happen, happen. Also just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yeah there probably isn't a moon made of cheese, but who knows(stretch I know, but the idea is there) Most people have never seen Antartica in person, but they believe it exists. The laws of physics are true only to our standards, maybe not everywhere in the universe. I mean if I wrote a story about God and had him breaking rules of reality and physics I doubt many people would question the theory about that and say that the story is bad because its not following the standard rules. I hope I made this more clear than the last post and I hope you don't take this as a flame in any way I actaully don't get a lot of chances to jab back and forth about a solid idea too much.

[Dracon]

Casually making a hash of well-known laws of physics means that you cannot have a good story.

And the fact that there are people with superpowers in the story is not an excuse!

We all agree to suspend out disbelief on the presence of superpowers when we pick up the book, because that is what the story is about. This does not in any way brand us as second-rate people who does not deserve a good story.

The key phrase here is internal consistency. If there had been a mutant present with the power to make soild light objects, who had made the thing, it would have been internaly consistent with the established setting.

Just because there are people like Spider-Man and Daedevil in the universe, does not mean that the moon can be made of green cheese, the sun can revolve around the earth, or the oceans made of coca-cola. A good story needs a logical framework, and if you don't even have the basic phisics working, you cant have that.

There are actually plenty of good novels and shows about people with superpowers out there. Saga of the Exiles, Cat, Heroes, Wild Cards, Known Space, etc. In sci-fi they are normally called psi, but it is the same thing. None of them feel they have a licence to casually disregard the way the world works. In all of them, the world fuctions as usual, but with an additional set of rules governing powers added, and futher extrapolations of science in some cases. Impossible objects does not appear for no reason.

True. A good story should be internally consistent and belivable.

While this is more difficult to accomplish with superhumans in the story, their presence in no way frees a writer from the need to make the story belivable.

Gross mistakes in physics are not compatible with a good story.

And while some would argue that an impossible asteroid is a fairly minor error, I would say that a writer who writes a space-based story should have at least a minimal familiarity with the subject. This did not argue a minimal knowledge of the subject.

The problem is really that many writers do extremly poor or nonexistent research. This leads to most of their readers being more knowledgable on the subject than them. Readers often inspired to read up on the subject by the same writers:(

It is a pity, there are a lot of facinating story ideas in real space.

[Gnarl]

I understand where you're comming from and I agree some stories benifit from using correct reality based physics and other benifit from not using them. But my point is it's basically in the eye of the beholder whether you like the laws of physics included in the story or not, because sometime you can't bring all those laws in correctly in certain situations. In the movie "Who Frammed Roger Rabbit" (great movie BTW) we see cartoons comming into real life, which of course is not real, but if the cartoons had to follow real time physics then they couldn'y do what they did in the movies like stop in mid-air or stop for a few seconds after they run off the side of a cliff and have time to look down and finnaly go. In some situations you sometimes are able to just allow things that cannot happen, happen. Also just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yeah there probably isn't a moon made of cheese, but who knows(stretch I know, but the idea is there) Most people have never seen Antartica in person, but they believe it exists. The laws of physics are true only to our standards, maybe not everywhere in the universe. I mean if I wrote a story about God and had him breaking rules of reality and physics I doubt many people would question the theory about that and say that the story is bad because its not following the standard rules. I hope I made this more clear than the last post and I hope you don't take this as a flame in any way I actaully don't get a lot of chances to jab back and forth about a solid idea too much.

I do understand what you are trying to say.

I just feel that you normally get an agreed suspension of disbelief on a single issue. Suddenly bringing in more issues breaks it.

In "Roger Rabbit" the central concept was that the toon were living alongside the other actors, and followed their own physical rules. Just like the ones in "Cool World" I think it was (with Holli) followed slightly different rules.

If you wrote a book about god, the concept would be that he was god, and so could break the rules.

It does not mean that any of those can introduce other concepts that breaks the suspesion of disbelief. Consider the reacions if Roger Rabbit appeared in an episode of "The West Wing" of "Heroes" with no futher explanation!

Or for an example close to our thing, consider "Asterix and the falling sky" and the reactions to it. The series contained Druids who made potions that truned people superstrong, or let them fly, or grew a large oak in a single day.

Yet when the author had aliens arrive, it just completly ruined things. They were not in the agreed set of deviations from normal reality.

[Berkey]

I do understand what you are trying to say.

I just feel that you normally get an agreed suspension of disbelief on a single issue. Suddenly bringing in more issues breaks it.

In "Roger Rabbit" the central concept was that the toon were living alongside the other actors, and followed their own physical rules. Just like the ones in "Cool World" I think it was (with Holli) followed slightly different rules.

If you wrote a book about god, the concept would be that he was god, and so could break the rules.

It does not mean that any of those can introduce other concepts that breaks the suspesion of disbelief. Consider the reacions if Roger Rabbit appeared in an episode of "The West Wing" of "Heroes" with no futher explanation!

Or for an example close to our thing, consider "Asterix and the falling sky" and the reactions to it. The series contained Druids who made potions that truned people superstrong, or let them fly, or grew a large oak in a single day.

Yet when the author had aliens arrive, it just completly ruined things. They were not in the agreed set of deviations from normal reality.

Ah, I think I see where you're comming from now. So you don't like the idea of the story following a set of rules then all of a sudden changing the rules to create a new idea? If that's the case then I can sort of agree with you, but I enjoy them breaking the rules in certain events, but thats just me. I originally thought you didn't like the idea of breaking the rules of physics at all. Hulk breaking from the inital rules and creating his own can be a little akward at times, but sometimes I don't mind it that's just me though.

[Gnarl]

Not quite. I don't like them changing the laws of physics for no reason, suddenly, in a manner than has no explanation. I am perfectly ok with the Hulks strength not following the rules of physics. That is part of the genre.

If say, the Molecule Man made the rock and sustained it, it wouldn't have brought me crashing out of the story with a "Man, that is dumb" reaction. Superpowers breaking the rules are part of the book. The fundamental assumption. They can make exceptions to the normal rules.

Planets not working -are not part of the fundamental assumption.

[Drdmx]

I dont understand all the passion about something that occurred in a comic book. Honestly, you shouldnt care so much. It happened in the book, I believe someone posted a scan, so really its only a matter of getting over it or not reading the book any more. Considering he's been around for 40+ years it would seem it doesnt bother people too much.

[aut0matic]

I dont understand all the passion about something that occurred in a comic book. Honestly, you shouldnt care so much. It happened in the book, I believe someone posted a scan, so really its only a matter of getting over it or not reading the book any more. Considering he's been around for 40+ years it would seem it doesnt bother people too much.

agreed. personally, i think the asteroid should have been the size of the universe, to piss even more people off :p