Death of the New Gods #4 Spoilers

[Samuraixsithlord]

Superman, Orion, and Mr. Miracle arrive at the compund of the Forever people to interrogate them on the Death of the New Gods. They enter and find the Remains of the FP. Apparently they to where killed.


Scott uses the Anti-Life equation to ressurect the FP and attempts to get them to reveal who the God-Killer is. Despite using the Equation Scott is unable to force an answer from them but Big Bear tells him that the "most unexpected" person killed them. Scott Free allows the FP to rest in peace.

Mantis and Kalibak decide to attack New Genesis. Mantis is pissed because all of his people (The bugs of New Genesis) have been killed.

Superman deduces the identity of the God-Killer to be the Infinity-man because of Big Bears comment above (The Infinity Man could only be summoned when they placed their hands on their mother box, and they disappear when he appears so his appearance was "unexpected") and that when he found Light-ray he kept muttering "Infinity" "Infinity".

Metron travels to Willie Walkers place to follow the trail of the killer. Metron deduces that the killer has been traveling through the time stream and thats how he's gotten the drop on all the New Gods so far. Metron follows the path of the Killer to the Bleed were he suspects that the Killer had been altered by some sort of Multi-versal entity. He travels to a dimension that even he has never been to to find that the entity that has taken control of the Infinity-man has been watching the New Gods for some time.



My belief is that the "entity" is the Anti-Life entity that Darkseid was talking about in issue #2. Thus explaing how Scott was unable to force the FP to reveal the killers identity

[spidervenom]

That would make sense but I dont think the entity is controling infinity man, Maybe the entity revealed some sort of cosmic revalation to him and that's why infinity man is killing the new gods.

[matt_hatyber]

its not going to be infity man. trust me. There is mroe than 1 persont hat would surprised the FP. Maybe high father came back from the grave??

[Samuraixsithlord]

its not going to be infity man. trust me. There is mroe than 1 persont hat would surprised the FP. Maybe high father came back from the grave??



Infinity man is the one who's killing everyone. Just except it and move on

[Cthulhudrew]

I don't know much about the Infinity Man, but it seems to me that the only thing that should be able to resist the Anti-Life Equation's power... is the Anti-Life Equation.

That's the first thing that popped into my head when Scott was interrogating the corpses of the Forever People- that someone had used the ALE to compel them not to speak of the identity of their killer, and when the ALE was used to attempt to do just that thing, the two powers cancelled each other out- and caused the FP to disintegrate.

Now, the question is- who could the ALE Killer be? At this point, I'm guessing either a time-traveling Mr. Miracle (for some reason- he is becoming unstable), or else Darkseid uses Desaad's little device and unlocks the rest of the ALE for himself- and becomes that floating little blob at the end talking to Metron (I think it is definitely safe to say that Metron is Darkseid's favorite of the New Gods).

I suppose it could be the Infinity Man, but right now I think that's a red herring.

I like that Starlin has been paying homage to Simonson's Orion so much with this story- Orion is pretty much my sole exposure to the New Gods (save for some of those ancient LSH stories with Darkseid and co.), and the only time I ever saw Orion as anything other than a super powered thug.

[carabas]

I don't know much about the Infinity Man, but it seems to me that the only thing that should be able to resist the Anti-Life Equation's power... is the Anti-Life Equation.It could also be the Source.

I suppose it could be the Infinity Man, but right now I think that's a red herring.Some herring, considering that he's been shown on-panel in Birds Of Prey.

[4thHorseman]

I refuse to believe it's the Infinity Man unless they are using the Infinity Man as a guise. Not really him at all, just morph into his likeness.

For it to be truly Infinity Man and revealed it the way they did, it would be crap. I think it'll turn out to be someone different. To have the killer revealed as more or less a "guess" only halfway into the series...doesn't sit well with me, and I think it'll be someone different.

[4thHorseman]

EDIT: Sorry for the double post

[Slyfer]

What is that blue ball thing at the end ???

[Sean Walsh]

What is that blue ball thing at the end ???

The being that gave the killer their incredibly amped up powers.

People suspect it could be the Anti Life Entity, or some being of the multiverses, or a Monitor, or even Darkseid himself.

[Froggy]

The being that gave the killer their incredibly amped up powers.

People suspect it could be the Anti Life Entity, or some being of the multiverses, or a Monitor, or even Darkseid himself.

ITS THE SOURCE!

[Jack]

Well, we seem to be going towards Scott being the Anti Life Entity, rather than the ALE being the villain.

[Eclips0]

Extant? If anyone in time or the past could give the Infinity Man this power, he could, and remember he can copy powers he comes into contact with and that would explain how he could frame Orion.

Just a thoery.

[PatchMadripoor]

I think it is either Extant or Krona in the Cosmic Egg (who we have not seen in a while, but with all the bad guys coming back from major events past, I think it's time they bring him in before Final Crisis.

[Eclips0]

And remember last time Extant was around he and Metron went at it, with Metron losing.

[Joe Acro]

It seems to me that the way Metron talks, he implies that the person killing them isn't a New God. I don't remember the line specifically, but it's something along the lines of them only being associated with the New Gods. That would still make them murderous and, given the title, makes a bit more sense. Why kill off the New Gods when you'll have to end up killing yourself? That question needn't be asked if the character isn't a New God.

[Ian J.N.]

So how is Death of the New Gods anyway? It sounds more like a Clue murder mystery than a Ragnarök.

[Samuraixsithlord]

And remember last time Extant was around he and Metron went at it, with Metron losing.


You mean Metron fights people. I just thought he floated around on his cosmic chair and was mysterious and useless. But did he actually blast energy and throw punches? How strong is he in that area?

[Samuraixsithlord]

I refuse to believe it's the Infinity Man unless they are using the Infinity Man as a guise. Not really him at all, just morph into his likeness.

For it to be truly Infinity Man and revealed it the way they did, it would be crap. I think it'll turn out to be someone different. To have the killer revealed as more or less a "guess" only halfway into the series...doesn't sit well with me, and I think it'll be someone different.

Something is controlling the Infinity Man. The Infinity man is just a tool or a loaded gun. The guy who's writing DotNG was pissed that Infinity Man was revealed in BoP so he re-did a little of the story.

[Samuraixsithlord]

I also forgot to mention this in my first post but it's revealed that the Killer is using the Astro-Force to steal the new gods souls Which makes Himon and some of the New Gods to suspect Orion is the one killing everyone.

[Slaughter]

Well, if you go with the Astroforce evidence and the thing with the Forever People NOT saying who killed them, it's Orion.

Or at least someone who:

1- Knows that SOMEONE has the Anti-Life Equation (Scott, Orion, Darkseid has part of it)

2- HAS the Anti-Life Equation and made the dead tell no tales.

3- Welds the Astroforce.

Yeah, all roads point to Orion. And with his totally PSYCHO personality, I would suspect him, too.

[Captain Jim]

So how is Death of the New Gods anyway? It sounds more like a Clue murder mystery than a Ragnarök.

In a sense you're right. Though everyone is going to die eventually, it's one by one, not a big battle or anything.

This series certainly has its detractors (primarily people who are against the premise), but personally, I'm loving it. Definitely one of the better Countdown tie-ins.

[Samuraixsithlord]

In a sense you're right. Though everyone is going to die eventually, it's one by one, not a big battle or anything.

This series certainly has its detractors (primarily people who are against the premise), but personally, I'm loving it. Definitely one of the better Countdown tie-ins.


But all the New Gods will be reborn in the Fifth World mini-series they're talking about so they'll be back in one form or another

[Samuraixsithlord]

Well, if you go with the Astroforce evidence and the thing with the Forever People NOT saying who killed them, it's Orion.

Or at least someone who:

1- Knows that SOMEONE has the Anti-Life Equation (Scott, Orion, Darkseid has part of it)

2- HAS the Anti-Life Equation and made the dead tell no tales.

3- Welds the Astroforce.

Yeah, all roads point to Orion. And with his totally PSYCHO personality, I would suspect him, too.


But Orion doesn't know the Anti-Life Equation. He knew it briefly before he forgot it.

[Sean Walsh]

I also forgot to mention this in my first post but it's revealed that the Killer is using the Astro-Force to steal the new gods souls Which makes Himon and some of the New Gods to suspect Orion is the one killing everyone.

.....then again, consider Himon, who is just present for a bit too many strange developments.

- he's starts vacationing on New Genesis around the time the murders hit Supertown and Apokalips
- he's kinda present when Takion dies, and is named the leader of New Genesis as a result
- he's the one who suddenly finds this trace of Astro-Force on certain corpses

Oh, and in SUPERMAN/BATMAN recently, Bekka - his daughter and Orion's wife - is killed. I seriously doubt Orion killed his wife.

But Orion doesn't know the Anti-Life Equation. He knew it briefly before he forgot it.

Did he? I know he lost his connection with it circa ORION #15, but when it was revealed that Scott Free had the ALE it was Orion who discovered this - and all he did was just see Scott and he could sense it there.

It'd be unfortunate if it was Orion. Seems to completely deviate from what's been done with him. Plus, he's been hanging around with Superman and Scott for a while now, and many other New Gods have been killed.

[Cthulhudrew]

Did he? I know he lost his connection with it circa ORION #15, but when it was revealed that Scott Free had the ALE it was Orion who discovered this - and all he did was just see Scott and he could sense it there.

Orion dismissed the ALE when he fought the entity Ecruos, in order to destroy that chaos being from killing the Tree of Life (during Simonson's Orion series). He definitely no longer possesses it himself. He can still sense it in Scott (and others) due to the changes it wrought in him, though- it's just a general sense of the power itself, but has nothing to do with possession of it.

I definitely don't think Orion is the culprit, but I am wondering if we haven't seen the last of him in the series (save for, perhaps, a corpse down the road). I hope not, but I guess we'll see.

[Sean Walsh]

Orion dismissed the ALE when he fought the entity Ecruos, in order to destroy that chaos being from killing the Tree of Life (during Simonson's Orion series). He definitely no longer possesses it himself. He can still sense it in Scott (and others) due to the changes it wrought in him, though- it's just a general sense of the power itself, but has nothing to do with possession of it.

That's what I'd thought, I just completely drew a blank on the whole Ecruos/Clockwerx stuff and didn't want to make an ass of myself (completely :p ).

The solicit for DOTNG #6 indicates that Orion may meet his end well before the saga ends. Which is rather interesting, to me at least; we always figured he'd be a component there at the very end, yet it seems like Scott's gonna be the major player in the end of the Fourth World.....and not so much Orion.

[spidervenom]

if orion did it,why whats his motive. Also why didnt superman bring batman along and just get this mystery done with.

[smoothjokes]

It's Scott Free, I'm putting all my money on it.

[Samuraixsithlord]

It's already ben established that the Infinity Man is the one killing the New Gods. Orion is not the killer. It's the entity that empowered the Infinity Man and the Infinity Man. no in-between, no third party.

[Samuraixsithlord]

I'm glad that Darkseid has decided to try to save himself and the New Gods. His whole waiting for the end didn't set right with me

[Captain Jim]

It's already ben established that the Infinity Man is the one killing the New Gods. Orion is not the killer. It's the entity that empowered the Infinity Man and the Infinity Man. no in-between, no third party.

That's what they want you to think, but I'm not so sure.

[Kid Kyoto]

I thought it was established that Dan DiDio was killing them?

[Leocomix]

I bet it's the Black Racer. Killing his host was a red herring.

[scratchie]

That's what they want you to think, but I'm not so sure.I think the fact that we're only on issue 4 of an 8-issue series, and they've already said "It's the Infinity Man" about a dozen times, is a pretty good indication that it will not, in the end, turn out to be the Infinity Man.

My money is on Scott Free. That would be very much in character for "the guy who's writing it." Magus, anyone?

[DMike]

I bet it's the Black Racer. Killing his host was a red herring.

No, Communism is a red herring. The Black Racer, on the other hand is really, most sincerely dead.

[4thHorseman]

Something is controlling the Infinity Man. The Infinity man is just a tool or a loaded gun. The guy who's writing DotNG was pissed that Infinity Man was revealed in BoP so he re-did a little of the story.

I have a hard time believing that DC would let one of the biggest mysteries dealing with one of their biggest events just "slip" by the way they did.

[matt_hatyber]

I thought it was established that Dan DiDio was killing them?

that would be funny. at the end of the whole series all you see is dan didio olding darksieds head. hehehe.


My money is on captain carrot. He got sent to this earth and he got pissed at the new dogs so he kills off the new gods.

[the4thpip]

I think it's Sonny Sumo.

[Sean Walsh]

I think it's Sonny Sumo.

Blast it, now *2* people I know of have suggested it's Sonny! :( :p

[isaaklown]

I haven't seen this mentioned... but a kid that comes into the comic store I work in said he couldn't figure out who was killing them... but he was staking his claim that Mr. Miracle becomes Dr. Impossible by the end of it... which seems very possible... the color scheme change being the biggest clue.

[d newton]

Some herring, considering that he's been shown on-panel in Birds Of Prey.

Something is controlling the Infinity Man. The Infinity man is just a tool or a loaded gun. The guy who's writing DotNG was annoyed that Infinity Man was revealed in BoP so he re-did a little of the story.
Are we talking about the figure in silhoulette with goggles on who's commenting why "do so many New Gods" visit this planet in BOP 109?

[Sean Walsh]

Are we talking about the figure in silhoulette with goggles on who's commenting why "do so many New Gods" visit this planet in BOP 109?

Yup. There's a shot, when Knockout confronts him and is stunned to see who it is, where you clearly see it's the silhouette of Infinity Man.

[Gonzalez]

spoiler:

The "negative starfield" orb-creature that Metron encounters in DOTNG #4 is essentially a color reversal of the starfield that fills Mister Miracle when he activates the Anti-Life Equation, so I think that means it's essentially some cosmic opposite of that. Perhaps it's the "Life Equation", and that's why it's pushing along the evolutionary process, billions of years in Earth's past.

(If you go all the way back to John Byrne's run on Jack Kirby's Fourth World, you will see that, when Drax was initially defeated by Uxas (Darkseid) in the Omega Pit ritual, he was thrust through some alternate flow-zone (was it "The Bleed"?), and landed in some far-off nature planet named "Adon" in the primitive past, where a previous Infinity Man was either dead or dying (I can't recall which) in a stone hut. Was this primitive planet Adon really Earth, in the distant past? Is it where this glowing "negative starfield" was living? Is that what gave the Infinity Man his power, after he was transported to that planet? When the orb tells Metron that he "sees me for what I am", does that mean that Metron is seeing Drax, through the orb disguise?

And maybe it's killing New Gods because Miracle keeps activating its evil twin, Anti-Life... all in an effort to maintain some cosmic balance. Of course, maybe it's not doing the killing at all... maybe it's actually a possessed Miracle who's doing the killing, under the demonic influence of Anti-Life.

However, I'm not sure what shape it would take, that would send the entire group of Forever People instantly running in terror as they did in issue #4. Maybe it has a necklace of human hearts around its neck or something. But, if you do a google search for "Infinity Man" and "wikipedia", you'll see the entry which shows that the Infinity Man does, indeed, have a thick band running down the center-line of the top of his head, just like a mohawk... and the killer who stood beside the Black Racer's bed in issue #1 of DOTNG also had the same sort of short mohawk-thing. However, you could see the killer's eyes, and the Infinity Man wears a reflective, 1980's-style mirrored eyeshield across his entire visual field, which would prevent you from ever seeing his eyes.

At any rate, anyone showing up at my doorstep with a necklace of human hearts would certainly send me running instantly, and they would most definitely be the "most unexpected guest of all".

end spoiler

By the way, I discovered during the process of making my spoiler invisible that the background color on these posting windows is called "lemon chiffon".

Awwww... how precious. You CBR web designers are certainly a "fabulous" bunch of guys.

[Paul Newell]

spoiler:

The "negative starfield" orb-creature that Metron encounters in DOTNG #4 is essentially a color reversal of the starfield that fills Mister Miracle when he activates the Anti-Life Equation, so I think that means it's essentially some cosmic opposite of that. Perhaps it's the "Life Equation", and that's why it's pushing along the evolutionary process, billions of years in Earth's past.

(If you go all the way back to John Byrne's run on Jack Kirby's Fourth World, you will see that, when Drax was initially defeated by Uxas (Darkseid) in the Omega Pit ritual, he was thrust through some alternate flow-zone (was it "The Bleed"?), and landed in some far-off nature planet named "Adon" in the primitive past, where a previous Infinity Man was either dead or dying (I can't recall which) in a stone hut. Was this primitive planet Adon really Earth, in the distant past? Is it where this glowing "negative starfield" was living? Is that what gave the Infinity Man his power, after he was transported to that planet? When the orb tells Metron that he "sees me for what I am", does that mean that Metron is seeing Drax, through the orb disguise?

And maybe it's killing New Gods because Miracle keeps activating its evil twin, Anti-Life... all in an effort to maintain some cosmic balance. Of course, maybe it's not doing the killing at all... maybe it's actually a possessed Miracle who's doing the killing, under the demonic influence of Anti-Life.

However, I'm not sure what shape it would take, that would send the entire group of Forever People instantly running in terror as they did in issue #4. Maybe it has a necklace of human hearts around its neck or something. But, if you do a google search for "Infinity Man" and "wikipedia", you'll see the entry which shows that the Infinity Man does, indeed, have a thick band running down the center-line of the top of his head, just like a mohawk... and the killer who stood beside the Black Racer's bed in issue #1 of DOTNG also had the same sort of short mohawk-thing. However, you could see the killer's eyes, and the Infinity Man wears a reflective, 1980's-style mirrored eyeshield across his entire visual field, which would prevent you from ever seeing his eyes.

At any rate, anyone showing up at my doorstep with a necklace of human hearts would certainly send me running instantly, and they would most definitely be the "most unexpected guest of all".

end spoiler

By the way, I discovered during the process of making my spoiler invisible that the background color on these posting windows is called "lemon chiffon".

Awwww... how precious. You CBR web designers are certainly a "fabulous" bunch of guys.
What's even better is that you don't have to select a colour at all and you can just use the [ SPOIL][ /SPOIL] tags to render the type invisible.

Especially as the type will show up anyway when someone quotes you. :)

[Gonzalez]

I thought it was established that Dan DiDio was killing them?

Of course. DiDio is the most deadly entity in the DC Universe.

In fact, if all the characters in the DC Universe knew that Dan DiDio was the supreme deity who controlled their fates, once they really understood the kind of person he really was, I expect they would all commit ritual suicide and leave him with an empty universe to derive no sick pleasure from, rather than live, and live as his tortured plaything.

[Gonzalez]

As to the question of "Who Killed the New Gods?"...

*touching my fingers to my temples*

...I prediiiict... that the aaaaanswer... willlllll... beeee.....

*eyes shut in a concentrated look*

...stuuuupiiiiid..."



*takes bow*

[PatchMadripoor]

As to the question of "Who Killed the New Gods?"...

*touching my fingers to my temples*

...I prediiiict... that the aaaaanswer... willlllll... beeee.....

*eyes shut in a concentrated look*

...stuuuupiiiiid..."



*takes bow*

Did Mentok the Mind Taker train under you?

http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=a3714b50331d01ebd8001a06bf80a006

[Gonzalez]

Why, yes. Yes he did.

[Ite]

In #3 I think it was, Orion took off his helmet and Superman was suprised by his appearance, how was his appearance different? The eyebrows maybe and meaner looking face? He still looked almost the same IMO.

[carabas]

In #3 I think it was, Orion took off his helmet and Superman was suprised by his appearance, how was his appearance different? The eyebrows maybe and meaner looking face? He still looked almost the same IMO.He looks a lot more like his Darkseid's son, as opposed to in the past, when he used a Motherbox to smooth away the rougher edges of his appearance.

[Sean Walsh]

He looks a lot more like his Darkseid's son, as opposed to in the past, when he used a Motherbox to smooth away the rougher edges of his appearance.

I'm actually kinda surprised that Superman had never seen the *real* face of Orion before now....

[Cthulhudrew]

I'm actually kinda surprised that Superman had never seen the *real* face of Orion before now....

True, although I don't think it was until Simonson's Orion series that he finally gave up using the Mother Box's facial alterations totally.

(And, to Ite- I've never thought he looked all that much different with/without the Mother Box myself. :))

[Will.S]

He looks a lot more like his Darkseid's son, as opposed to in the past, when he used a Motherbox to smooth away the rougher edges of his appearance.
Does anyone have a pic of this by any chance?

I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Gonzalez]

I think that the Anti-Life Equation turns Mister Miracle into Doctor Impossible, who is the villain from the new JLA series. He has a "father box" and a "hush tube" or something.

Yep; Dr. Impossible is the opposite version of Mister Miracle, so that's who's killing the New Gods. It's Mister Miracle.

Jim Starlin did an interview where he says that Miracle was always his least favorite of all the New Gods characters, that he was too much of a goody-goody. And he says that he will have the Anti-Life Equation warp and twist his soul.

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006822

Yep; it's definitely Miracle.

I think that the Anti-Life Equation is one half of a dual entity that is "The Source". In the interview link above, Starlin reveals that The Source congealed and created the god-power from all the gods of earth, into both Apokolips and New Genesis. So, I definitely think that the two planets are isolated from the rest of the universe, because that's how The Source has always wanted it.

As a dual entity of opposites (yin and yang, if you will), I think that the "life entity" half of The Source is what Metron is encountering in the dinosaur era of Earth's past at the end of issue #4. But I also think that the anti-life half of The Source has been animating various dead New Gods all along, and using them to kill off still-existing New Gods. I think that it was a Bedlam animate or an Infinite Man animate (yes, I think he's also been dead awhile) that killed the Black Racer in his hospital bed.

Also, those are Lightray's boots on the figure that kills Takion in issue #3. He was re-animated from off the Source Wall by the Anti-Life Equation inside the Source, and killed Takion... or, more precisely, he sucked out Takion's soul.

All the souls of the New Gods are being extracted, to put them into the new NEW Gods that DC is creating for later. That's my call.

The dream that Metron had in issue #1 of DOTNG is an awareness of the two opposite halves of the entity that is The Source has really been, all along.

It will be revealed that The Source has really just been a place inhabited by dual entities that created a pocket region of space where they could create Apokolips and New Genesis and all the New Gods, for their experimental amusement all along. And now they're bored and, like bored, bratty children, they're killing off their old playthings, and rebuilding them anew. That's what's going on in issue #4, with the cavemen.

Lightray was the first one killed because he somehow entered this "Bleed" area, and was possessed by either the Life or Anti-Life Equation, did a bit o' killing while possessed, and then, when he'd fulfilled his purpose, he was plummeted to Earth, to die.

Yep.

[Sean Walsh]

...I think that the Anti-Life Equation is one half of a dual entity that is "The Source". In the interview link above, Starlin reveals that The Source congealed and created the god-power from all the gods of earth, into both Apokolips and New Genesis. So, I definitely think that the two planets are isolated from the rest of the universe, because that's how The Source has always wanted it...

...As a dual entity of opposites (yin and yang, if you will), I think that the "life entity" half of The Source is what Metron is encountering in the dinosaur era of Earth's past at the end of issue #4...

...The dream that Metron had in issue #1 of DOTNG is an awareness of the two opposite halves of the entity that is The Source has really been, all along...

...they're killing off their old playthings, and rebuilding them anew. That's what's going on in issue #4, with the cavemen...

*Sean reads DOTNG #5*

You're a bit off in certain areas (Miracle being the culprit, the dead repossessed and killing New Gods) but in these respects above.......


Good call. ;)

[Gonzalez]

*Sean reads DOTNG #5*

You're a bit off in certain areas (Miracle being the culprit, the dead repossessed and killing New Gods) but in these respects above.......


Good call.

Thanks, and we still haven't seen who's actually doing the killing. I might turn out to be right after all!