countdown #18! SPOILERS

[matt_hatyber]

ok, so they find him, And now they want to kill him. If they do this, im going to drop countdown. Like come on. How stupid is that.

Also what do you think ray palmer was trying to make?

[Angelo2113]

I doubt they're going to do this. I'm sure Jason, Donna, and Kyle will stop him. Because I know Donna and Kyle really never trusted Bob. And I think something is going to happen to Jason in 17 and 16 for him to turn into Red Robin. Interesting to find out what's going to happen

[MWGallaher]

Something's fishy here...I want to think that this isn't really "our" Ray Palmer, and that Bob knows it. Unless I misread, the issue implies that Ray's been faking it as the Earth-51 version for five years. That just doesn't add up. But then, it's Countdown, which hasn't been inspiring confidence in storytelling consistency since the start. When did he hit all those other Earths that the Challengers arrived at just after he left? How can the writers go from having the Challengers be just days or hours behind Ray's Earth-hopping to having them find Ray living peacefully on Earth 51 for five years? "Time is broken", maybe? ~shrug~ Maybe they can pull that off, but it'll take some talking.

[octothorp]

If you look at the compter screen in Ray's lab, the image is that of the Morticoccus virus, last seen in the old Kamandi series. This is the cause the upcoming Great Disaster (my guess). You'll remember that Brother Eye, a few issues back, mentions Morticoccus by name. I'm calling this one!

[Jack Zodiac]

So Ray ran away to another Earth and just... what, took over the old Ray's life? That's pretty out of left-field. And unlike Ray. I mean, I get that Jean's breakdown really !@#$ed him up and all, but that's damn near as crazy. And still no explanation as to why he was "branding" people across the multiverse?

[Choppa]

He said he found something in the other Ray's work that showed him that he had to stay and finish it. He just didn't say what yet.

[DonC]

Something's fishy here...I want to think that this isn't really "our" Ray Palmer, and that Bob knows it. Unless I misread, the issue implies that Ray's been faking it as the Earth-51 version for five years.


Actually, from looking at the book, it would be over 5 years. He was with the Justice League for 5 years, but it was implied that they had been disbanded for years. Ray says he loves it when Superman puts on his costume and feeds the needy, but that Supes only does it once a year.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but their time discrepancy explanation better be pretty good.

[Captain Jim]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but their time discrepancy explanation better be pretty good.

This is more or less addressed here (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141019), but you may not be happy with what they say.

[DonC]

Wow. That is bad.

Newsarama: So finally - we catch up with Ray. How long has he been on this world? That is, how long did his trip through the worlds take?

Mike Carlin: It’s been a while... Obviously since Identity Crisis went down... But as with characters created in the 1930’s who don’t age, we prefer to leave these areas less definite. Clearly Ray’s been traveling and settled on Earth 51 for a long enough time to have done all the things he’s said he’s done.

So Carlin is saying that at least five years has passed since Identity Crisis? I mean, if he wanted to leave this "less definite," they shouldn't have said Ray was a Justice Leaguer on Earth-51 for five years. I guess a case could be made that Ray never actually states he was there for all five years, but it sure read that way to me.

[Choppa]

I thought he was talking about that Earth's Ray having done all of that stuff. DIdn't he say he read about that Earth's history. I can't remember anything that I read afterwards.

[IamtheRock3]

Wow. That is bad.

Newsarama: So finally - we catch up with Ray. How long has he been on this world? That is, how long did his trip through the worlds take?

Mike Carlin: It’s been a while... Obviously since Identity Crisis went down... But as with characters created in the 1930’s who don’t age, we prefer to leave these areas less definite. Clearly Ray’s been traveling and settled on Earth 51 for a long enough time to have done all the things he’s said he’s done.

So Carlin is saying that at least five years has passed since Identity Crisis? I mean, if he wanted to leave this "less definite," they shouldn't have said Ray was a Justice Leaguer on Earth-51 for five years. I guess a case could be made that Ray never actually states he was there for all five years, but it sure read that way to me.


wait five year in the regular DC world

cause robin got to be in his 20's then

[carabas]

I thought he was talking about that Earth's Ray having done all of that stuff. DIdn't he say he read about that Earth's history. I can't remember anything that I read afterwards.No, it's clear that Ray replaced his counterpart five years ago, before the League whiped out crime.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

i believe it has not been established that time flows the same way all over the multiverse. couln't this be the case here?

cheers
rio

[SensorBoy]

I like the shot of "foaming at the mouth" Jean in the 1st panel of the second page.

The narrative block in that panel was completely (and hilariously) inappropriate.

It was so good to have Jean back. It felt.....right.
....as she's dragged into a cell, howling....

Ray Palmer: SuperDick.

Zatanna-51 is on the Kingpin Diet, I see...

[Paul Dee]

I'd have to get my copy again but at the start didn't it show Jean being committed to Arkham while having a "Two years ago" caption on it, showing that Identity Crisis happened 2 DCU years ago?

[jhota]

i believe it has not been established that time flows the same way all over the multiverse. couln't this be the case here?

cheers
rio

since Earth-12 is the Batman Beyond universe, i'd submit that time cannot be moving at the same speed throughout the multiverse.

that, and i'f you're changing universes, how hard is a little time travel, too?

[Paul Dee]

Well, I just see it as all the 52 universes starting off at the same time in the DCU (is week 52), but at different times in their own continuity. Therefore, even though the Batman Beyond universe has only been around for 2 years its own history still has Terry as a baby, the Kingdom Come universe has its own history, etc etc

This doesn't solve the Ray Palmer 5 years mystery though

[matt_hatyber]

I'd have to get my copy again but at the start didn't it show Jean being committed to Arkham while having a "Two years ago" caption on it, showing that Identity Crisis happened 2 DCU years ago?

i just checked and yea it does say two years. So that meens 2 years ago ray palmer went to the multi verse. But 5 years ago he was on earth 51. Does this make sense? NO IT DOESNT.

[Captain Jim]

I don't know that it's all that clear that he's been there five years.

You people are thinking about this too hard. Just enjoy the story. Sheesh.

[Sijo]

OK, I'm going to post a little theory here:

It's a common assumption in comics that one year passes about every four years of real time (after the beginning of the Silver Age, anyway). The reason for this is that most comics are monthly, but the events seen in them are assumed to happen within days. Rounding to a 1 Month real time = 1 week DC time, you get 12 weeks for each year, which does fit with the 1 year per 4 years theory.

This means that, in DC:

Comics published from 1956 (Flash's debut, and the unofficial start of the Silver Age) to 1959 would be Year One of the Modern Age of Heroes.
1960 to 1963 would be year two.
64-67 Year Three.
68-71 Year Four.
72-75 Year Five.
76-79 Year Six.
80-83 Year Seven.
84-87 Year Eight. This is when the First Crisis happened (1985).
88-91 Year Nine.
92-95 Year Ten.
96-99 Year Eleven.
00-03 Year Twelve.
04-05 Year Thirteen. This is when Identity Crisis (2004) and Infinite Crisis (2005) take place. This is officially confirmed by Superman saying he first met Lois 13 years before shortly before Infinite Crisis.
2006 Year Fourteen. The year-long events of 52.
07-10 Year Fifteen. Events of One Year Later titles (2006, but set a year later), Countdown (2007) and Final Crisis (2008).

This is all very approximate, of course, but gives you a frame of reference.

Palmer being lost for two years does fit in, as you can see. But not being on Earth-51 for five years; that's either a writing error (most likely) or time travel is involved (always possible.)

[Choppa]

Does that 2 years even match up with OYL? After IDC there was IC and then one year followed by countdown which has been less than one year so far. I guess that makes sense?

[Interro]

Why are we assuming that time is at the same speed in every universe? A Monitor even goes on to state that "Time is not equal among universes" in one of the back-ups.

[ukblueky]

I don't have an issue with the '5 Year Ray Mystery' what I have an issue with in this book is that the Earth-51 Zatanna still wears the fishnet stockings and tux bikini even though she is a porker.I have yet to meet an overweight woman that would be caught dead in public wearing something like that.Also who would go see a shrink that wears something like that especially if she was as big asEarth-51 Zatanna? I think the artist might have a fat fetish.

[Matt K]

I don't have an issue with the '5 Year Ray Mystery' what I have an issue with in this book is that the Earth-51 Zatanna still wears the fishnet stockings and tux bikini even though she is a porker.I have yet to meet an overweight woman that would be caught dead in public wearing something like that.Also who would go see a shrink that wears something like that especially if she was as big asEarth-51 Zatanna? I think the artist might have a fat fetish.

I don't read countdown but perhaps it was supposed to be funny ala Agent X's fat White Queen look alike.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

the most elegant and reasonable reason is to assume that time runs differently in each universe because mr mind chewed up unequal amount of times from each one...so, not only does this explain the degrees of derivation from the original 52 multiverse and why time has different speeds.

this would reduce time travel's importance a bit because the "now" which we all experience as we read could happen horizontally since each universe would live in a different time period.

the "now" in batman beyond universe is in the future as compared to new earth "now".

makes any sense?

cheers
rio

[Paul Dee]

Does that 2 years even match up with OYL? After IDC there was IC and then one year followed by countdown which has been less than one year so far. I guess that makes sense?


According to Booster Gold #1 OYL + all of Countdown (assuming Countdown #0 leads straight into Final Crisis) = one DCU year, if that helps.

[Phoney Bone]

I don't know that it's all that clear that he's been there five years.

You people are thinking about this too hard. Just enjoy the story. Sheesh.



http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/blazingsad31.jpeg
HARUMPH! HARUMPH!

Thinking too hard about ANY super-hero funny book published since Action Comics #1 is silly and pointless.

Terry McGuiness is active as Batman on his Earth. The events of Kingdom Come are about to happen on their Earth. Ray Palmer certainly COULD have been on Earth-51 for five years when he left New Earth two years ago.

Just remember how the 52 alternate universes were re-created in the first place... Mr. Mind scewing around with time.

[Phoney Bone]

In other issue #18 spoilers... Mary Marvel kicks "Eclipsed" Jean Loring's patoot! Eclipso realizes he/she bit off more than they could chew in corrupting poor Mary. Her new powers were more than they bargained for.

That leads one to speculate that "Black Adam" from earlier in the series was probablly an imposter... which many (including myself) have been saying since the beginning.

[bert]

I have yet to meet an overweight woman that would be caught dead in public wearing something like that.

you have obviously never been to a Con

[ukblueky]

you have obviously never been to a Con


HAHAHA You got me there.Cons do seem to bring out the freaks.

[Sijo]

Thinking too hard about ANY super-hero funny book published since Action Comics #1 is silly and pointless.
To those who don't enjoy it, certainly. But to many of us, it *is* part of the fun. People aren't forced to read our speculations, you know...

[the4thpip]

I don't know that it's all that clear that he's been there five years.



It is actually 100% clear that he has been there even longer than 5 years.

[Froggy]

damn Bob, why'd you have to do it like that?

[Captain Jim]

It is actually 100% clear that he has been there even longer than 5 years.

In your opinion. :rolleyes:

[MWGallaher]

In your opinion. :rolleyes:

Come on, Jim. After several panels describing his adventures with Earth-51's JLA, he concludes: "After five years, the battle between good and evil was over. The League disbanded and everyone retired." Earlier, he says to Zatanna: "We suited up to make the world a better place. Five fun-filled years..." Then there's the part where he notes that Superman dons his costume once every year--he'd have to have done this at least two years in a row for such a comment to make any sense. Yes, you can split hairs and argue that, with respect to the five years, he may have been discussing five years of which he was only a part in the final year, but that's not what most readers would get from a plain reading of the text. Absent any evidence to the contrary, I'm baffled as to why McKeever would have specified such a duration when it's simply not compatible with the bigger DCU picture. And I think it's unlikely that we're going to get any "time flows differently here" explanation. And I don't think we're going to get any explanation as to why the Challengers have been missing Ray by just days on the other Earths, while this issue implies that his exploration of the other universes took place years ago (although, I admit that this part is less clearly implied...he could be visiting other universes every day, but if that were the case, I can't quite buy his semi-amnesia about his origins on "New Earth". I don't understand how anyone could read weeks of "we just missed him" and not be stopped cold by a story that says "he's been here for seven years".

[the4thpip]

In your opinion. :rolleyes:

http://shortpacked.com/comics/20070502opinions.png