Trade FF to DC for.. Bats & Green Arrow

[Superboy Sr]

It will never happen but imagine if Marvel traded the Fantastic Four to DC for Batman & Green Arrow(including families) what do you think the DC and Marvel universe would be like?

[Beast]

I'm thinking that Marvel's getting the short end of the stick on that deal.

[firstmode]

Yea, Marvel would be getting the worse end of it

[Pixie_Solanas]

I'm thinking that Marvel's getting the short end of the stick on that deal.

Huh? Batman's an infinitely-better property than the FF - not least bit being a more profitable movie franchise. And if we're including family, Catwoman >>> Invisible Broad.

[Beast]

Huh? Batman's an infinitely-better property than the FF - not least bit being a more profitable movie franchise. And if we're including family, Catwoman >>> Invisible Broad.
Batman sucks. And Batman Begins was dreadful. Should have called it Batman Bores.

Heh. And speaking of profitable movie franchises and Catwoman in the same post. :p

[Pixie_Solanas]

Batman sucks. And Batman Begins was dreadful. Should have called it Batman Bores.

Miller's original Dark Knight was groundbreaking - and better than any FF story i've ever read (Lee & Kirby heyday included).

And you can say that Batman Begins sucked, but it was 100x better than the "Rise of the Silver Surfer" movie. And Batman's still a viable franchise - with the FF likely done for future movies.

And this from someone who didn't really like the Batman movies, either.

And the Catwoman movie was a steaming pile of offal, granted, but it had nothing to do with the comic - at all.

[Beast]

Miller's original Dark Knight was groundbreaking - and better than any FF story i've ever read (Lee & Kirby heyday included).
A dark alternate reality story with regualar comics isn't really comparable.
And you can say that Batman Begins sucked, but it was 100x better than the "Rise of the Silver Surfer" movie. And Batman's still a viable franchise - with the FF likely done for future movies.
As Dr. Cox would say, "Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong. You're wrong. So wrong."

There's plans for yet another Fantastic Four movie, as well as a Silver Surfer spin-off.

[Pixie_Solanas]

A dark alternate reality story with regualar comics isn't really comparable.



Why not? DK changed the entire portrayal of Batman - across the realities.

A good story is a good story, whether it's in the approved universe or an alt. reality.

And yeah, there might be plans for new FF. But really, compare the buzz between the two. Batman has it beat. And I guarantee you it will make more $$$. Let's just say that Marvel would literally kill for a Batman-like franchise to license - and rival its own Spider-Man cash cow.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Yea, Marvel would be getting the worse end of it

It depends WHEN they trade these characters. Trading them today? Marvel wins, hands down. The Bat-Books and related characters are huge sellers, and Marvel would do them very well (Brubaker's Batman! A New Must-Read).

However, if they trade them at there individual companies inception, Marvel loses. The concepts and characters introduced in FF have created a huge cornerstone of the Marvel Universe. You'd hand away all the cosmic marvel characters, concepts like the Negative Zone and villains like Doctor Doom.

On second thought, Marvel Loses no matter when. Doom > Batman.

[Pixie_Solanas]

It depends WHEN they trade these characters. Trading them today? Marvel wins, hands down. The Bat-Books and related characters are huge sellers, and Marvel would do them very well (Brubaker's Batman! A New Must-Read).

However, if they trade them at there individual companies inception, Marvel loses. The concepts and characters introduced in FF have created a huge cornerstone of the Marvel Universe. You'd hand away all the cosmic marvel characters, concepts like the Negative Zone and villains like Doctor Doom.

On second thought, Marvel Loses no matter when. Doom > Batman.

Eh, I never thought of Doom as that intimidating a villain. Maybe i'm more DC than I thought - perish the thought. Or maybe I was just never a fan of the FF to begin with.

Either way, i'm willing to agree to disagree, provided we all passionately embrace each other. With FURY!

[DeadXMan]

First off
Batman dose suck especially under Morrison
BB was better then the last bat film
but that not saying much.

DK Joker looks like a crow cosplay reject

and DKR did not change batman it brought him back to his roots before they made him camp.

The FF are the first family of marvel. the 616 didn't exist until they showed up.

even if DC gave Marvel
The holy Trinity plus the Flash and Joe could have his way with Dan
Marvel would be gypped in the end

[RolandJP]

Hows about Watchmen, The league of extraordinary gentlemen, Alan Moore and Wonderwoman for howard the duck :D

[Rod G]

My apologies.


I got involved in something else.

Getting into topic . . .


I don't think this trade will ever work.

[une]

This couldn't really work for Marvel. The Fantastic Four have their hands in too many parts of the Marvel Universe. The Skrulls, Doctor Doom, the Inhumans, Namor, even the Multiple Man all of them are major characters in the Marvel Universe, but they got their start in the Fantastic Four. If you were to take the Fantastic Four property, and thus all of the related properties, like Doc Doom, you would leave the Marvel Universe without some of it's most interesting characters and places. That would be a huge loss for Marvel, in my opinion.

DC would definitely come out on top in this situation. They would lose Batman, a truly great character with lots of really awesome supporting characters, but the damage would be very minimal to the DC universe as a whole. Batman is very segregated from the rest of the DC universe, and really often times it seems like his stories happen in their own little universe. It might affect, the Teen Titans, with the loss of Robin, Superman and the Justice League, but beyond that the DC universe will go on without much problem. For the loss of Batman DC would gain a very unique and interesting cast of heroes and villains that could fit into a variety of places in the DC universe and make it a much more interesting place. Namor could be a regular in Aquaman's comics, as the leader of a rival Atlantis. Dr. Doom would make an awesome occasional rival for the Justice League. The possibilities are really endless with a supporting cast as diverse as the Fantastic Four.

[Aubergine~!]

Marvel would go for this in a second.

Bats is probably one of the 3 most recognizable (and profitable) heroes in comics. They'd be making a lot more publishing Detective Comics, Batman, Catwoman, Robin, & Nightwing, plus whatever other Bat-books there are, than Fantastic Four & Ult. FF. Plus he fits in the darker MU far better than the FF. Oh, and Green Arrow wouldn't be too bad, though Hawkeye's more interesting.

The FF would be a massive loss, agreed, but the profits to Marvel would be great. The main problem would be continuity, as alot of the FF villains are integral parts of the MU cosmos (though it could be argued that a number, such as Annihilus and technically Galactus aren't technically FF rogues anymore). Still, no way Marvel comes off worse in this deal.

[Alex Smith]

Batman himself, not even green arrow or his "family" is worth it for Marvel. He makes money and he's a fan favorite. The FF is great, but they're nothing like Batman. That would be like saying that DC wouldn't trade 4 of their semi-popular characters for Spider-man.

[Maestro]

I would miss the FF, but it wouldn't be that big of a loss. Batman is the biggest superhero in the world, bigger than Superman. It seems like half of DC comic sales come from Batman. Marvel would win financially and make better Batman comics too.

[Capt USA]

I don't see the need to include green arrow at all in this trade, as mentioned the Batman family is huge enough to make this a fair trade, not even talking about the marketing aspects of the batfamily which is larger of course, but just about how they would work in the different universes.

DC outside of batman family does a pretty pitiful job with street level heroes and since they love to have varying power levels depending on the writers whims, they would be able to do justice with the ff and their cosmic menaces, and of course getting doctor doom would be a bonus, finally dc would have a bad guy that could legitimately cross into other books who could challenge everyone. I mean Doom> luthor/Joker combined as a villain. heck there aren't any five dc villains combined who are as useable as doom.

Marvel does street level heroes very well, but this would probably overrun their quoto on street level heroes and some good titles would get bump to publish a batman family line. (my guess is that would include one wolverine title, iron fist, moon knight, and maybe even daredevil)


thinking of it this way, it would probably be a bad idea from a fan of the comics for this to happen, as mentioned Batman is about the only street level hero dc does right and adding another street level to the marvel universe really doesn't help them that much.

[Dagger]

EPH-U-C-K NO!!!! Especially with Millar and Hitch getting ready to take over the book in a little over a month, I don't want Bat-Man over here! This could be the best FF stories we've had since Byrne!

[DeadXMan]

Not to mention Batman would so get his ass handed to him over hear.

Our villains are not a cowardly and superstitious bunch of pansies like the DC
(excluding Joker and Lex)

[Superbeast]

I reckon Marvel would have Talia Al Ghul shoot Batman when he's in cuffs and have Jason Todd become the new Batman, Green Arrow would kill Hawkeye again and the Doom Patrol would be angry they were being upstaged on their own turf.

[Alex Smith]

I don't see the need to include green arrow at all in this trade, as mentioned the Batman family is huge enough to make this a fair trade, not even talking about the marketing aspects of the batfamily which is larger of course, but just about how they would work in the different universes.

DC outside of batman family does a pretty pitiful job with street level heroes and since they love to have varying power levels depending on the writers whims, they would be able to do justice with the ff and their cosmic menaces, and of course getting doctor doom would be a bonus, finally dc would have a bad guy that could legitimately cross into other books who could challenge everyone. I mean Doom> luthor/Joker combined as a villain. heck there aren't any five dc villains combined who are as useable as doom.

Marvel does street level heroes very well, but this would probably overrun their quoto on street level heroes and some good titles would get bump to publish a batman family line. (my guess is that would include one wolverine title, iron fist, moon knight, and maybe even daredevil)


thinking of it this way, it would probably be a bad idea from a fan of the comics for this to happen, as mentioned Batman is about the only street level hero dc does right and adding another street level to the marvel universe really doesn't help them that much.

Doom is cool man but the Joker is up there with Darth Vader for the best villain of all time.

[Capt USA]

Doom is cool man but the Joker is up there with Darth Vader for the best villain of all time.

Joker isn't close to a top 10 or even top 100 villain. He's just a nutso psycho and that is pretty much it, no motivation, no goals, nothing except chaos and not even that. Jack Nicholson Joker was cool, but beyond that, the only thing cool about the joker is his success level, but as a villain he's just a caricature.

[XPac]

I think Marvel would go for this not so much because it would help Marvel but more because it would hurt DC.

DC has basically built itself upon 2 characters... SUperman and Batman. You can see that in the movies they make. While Marvel makes movies for B and even C list characters like Blade, Electra, and Ghost Rider, on the DC front you get nothing but more Superman and Batman movies.

The loss of the FF would be big for marvel, but DC losing Batman would literally be ripping the soul out of the company.

[Diablito]

I would be pretty pissed if this trade ever happenned. While Batman may be a more successful franchise, I think he's overdone and boring. His cast is not really that memorable, and he wouldn't fit with the superhero genre as much as the noir ones.
The Fantastic Four is a more modest franchise, but it is their concept that introduced many characters and ideas to Marvel. Without them, Marvel would lose a lot of which makes them Marvel.
Oh, and I don't even know who the hell Green Arrow is. Mind you, I don't read DC books, but I reckon he's not a very important (or interesting) character.

[Alan2099]

Not to mention Batman would so get his ass handed to him over hear.

Our villains are not a cowardly and superstitious bunch of pansies like the DC
(excluding Joker and Lex)

Marvel and DC go at it the opposite route for power level.

Marvel powers up their villians to unstoppable levels and leaves their heroes struggling to win.

DC powers up their heroes to unstoppable levels to where the villians hardly have any chance.

[Capt USA]

I think Marvel would go for this not so much because it would help Marvel but more because it would hurt DC.

DC has basically built itself upon 2 characters... SUperman and Batman. You can see that in the movies they make. While Marvel makes movies for B and even C list characters like Blade, Electra, and Ghost Rider, on the DC front you get nothing but more Superman and Batman movies.

The loss of the FF would be big for marvel, but DC losing Batman would literally be ripping the soul out of the company.

well there is supposedly different dc movies in the work, justice league, green lantern, wonder woman(currently on hold), Watchmen, shazam(with rock as black adam), flash and even teen titans. So DC has seen the light, the really bad thing that Marvel does is that they don't support their movies with comics.

[DeadXMan]

Marvel and DC go at it the opposite route for power level.

Marvel powers up their villians to unstoppable levels and leaves their heroes struggling to win.

DC powers up their heroes to unstoppable levels to where the villians hardly have any chance.

I wouldn't call it overpowering.
Marvel Villains are more ruthless

Red Skull wouldn't Hastie launching a Dirty K-Bomb at metropolis
King pin would Hastie in ordering bullseye to go after Alfred, dick, Tim, Catwoman & her daughter.
Norman would toss both conner and speedy off a bridge and make Ollie use his "right to choose"

[DeadXMan]

well there is supposedly different dc movies in the work, justice league, green lantern, wonder woman(currently on hold), Watchmen, chasm(with rock as black Adam), flash and even teen titans. So DC has seen the light, the really bad thing that Marvel does is that they don't support their movies with comics.

let see here
Iron man has a comic
Captain America has a comic
so dose Thor
the x-men
spider-man
daredevil
ghost rider
hulk
iron fist
Ant man in a comic

unless you mean those god awful comic book adaptations

[Sion]

Wow, I'm suprised.

While I"m not Batman fan, I thought BB was MILES better than any Marvel movie.

[DeadXMan]

Blade 2, Daredevil: The director's cut, X2, and spidy 2 are far better then BB.

And Iron Man will so kick his ass in the theaters.

[XPac]

well there is supposedly different dc movies in the work, justice league, green lantern, wonder woman(currently on hold), Watchmen, shazam(with rock as black adam), flash and even teen titans. So DC has seen the light, the really bad thing that Marvel does is that they don't support their movies with comics.

We'll see. So far all I've really seen is Cat Woman.

[Sion]

Blade 2, Daredevil: The director's cut, X2, and spidy 2 are far better then BB.

And Iron Man will so kick his ass in the theaters.

Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more if you told me you genuinely could believe it wasn't butter the first time. (note, reference to relatively old popular commercial may be lost in those living outside of the US or who don't watch TV all that much)

[DeadXMan]

at least they were orginal

a madman gasing gothem?
I swaer I seen this before.

It was as great as watching Luther thinking.

[Capt USA]

let see here
Iron man has a comic
Captain America has a comic
so dose Thor
the x-men
spider-man
daredevil
ghost rider
hulk
iron fist
Ant man in a comic

unless you mean those god awful comic book adaptations

blade didn't really have a comic, ghost rider didn't have an established comic at the time of the movie it was more or less relaunched to coincide with the movie. I'm just talking about the movies that they have released so far, heck I'm not even that sure that the punisher had an ongoing when his most recent movie was released.

[DeadXMan]

yes he did.
his Max was going after the Upgrade him from they MK Line
either way )Punisher had a book when the movie came out
The was based on "welcome back, Frank" expect for the last part wear he killed everyone at the club. That was directly from Year one.

[Alex Smith]

Joker isn't close to a top 10 or even top 100 villain. He's just a nutso psycho and that is pretty much it, no motivation, no goals, nothing except chaos and not even that. Jack Nicholson Joker was cool, but beyond that, the only thing cool about the joker is his success level, but as a villain he's just a caricature.

You're crazy, man. Plus, wizard disagrees. They put him as the number 1 villain of all time. Just read it.

[Alex Smith]

Joker isn't close to a top 10 or even top 100 villain. He's just a nutso psycho and that is pretty much it, no motivation, no goals, nothing except chaos and not even that. Jack Nicholson Joker was cool, but beyond that, the only thing cool about the joker is his success level, but as a villain he's just a caricature.

You're crazy, man. Plus, wizard disagrees. They put him as the number 1 villain of all time. Just read it. Plus, just being crazy is what makes him so awesome. He's hard to beat because he doesn't have any real goals, just to kill. That's why he's so great.

[DeadXMan]

You're crazy, man. Plus, wizard disagrees. They put him as the number 1 villain of all time. Just read it.

First off Who in their right mind listens to Wizard?


the prices on books are a joke
and they have no integrity

and the Joker is 45th in AFI for top 50 villians
And bats is 46 in heroes

[princesa]

Personally I think Marvel would make that trade in a heartbeat. Batman may be the best character ever and his franchise was fantastic.

[Alex Smith]

First off Who in their right mind listens to Wizard?


the prices on books are a joke
and they have no integrity

and the Joker is 45th in AFI for top 50 villians
And bats is 46 in heroes

AFI isn't rating only comic villains though. If I remember correctly Hannibal Lector is the number 1 villain. Nurse Ratchet from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is really high. So that's not really a valid point of information for this.

Anyway, Marvel, if given the opportunity, though they never will be, would be crazy not to accept.