Avengers: The Initiative #8 *Spoilers* [Archive]

drwho

12-28-2007, 01:10 PM

This issue was decent. What is really exciting me here is it looking like this book and New Warriors maybe revving up for some type of crossover. This issue mentions events that happened in an issue of New Warriors and the latest issue of New Warriors mentioned MVP. A new bunch of recruits show and Eric O Grady already starts trouble by bad mouthing Cassie's father in front of her. So it ends up being a small brawl with Cassie, Pym, and Eric. Taskmaster hops on board as new drill instructor and looks pretty cool. Also give the background on how Pym came up with the idea for the initiative. Somehow it appears MVP merged with the Space weapon that was attached to armory and maybe destroying the base. It was a last page reveal so not sure who MVP is trying to kill. My review is scatterbrained, but good issue.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 02:03 PM

This issue was decent.

i loved this issue!! it was short but i haven't had this much fun in awhile.

What is really exciting me here is it looking like this book and New Warriors maybe revving up for some type of crossover.

it would only be natural. i hope it happens before either title is cancelled.

A new bunch of recruits show and Eric O Grady already starts trouble by bad mouthing Cassie's father in front of her.

i take all of the bad things i said about Dan Slott back. he can definately write Eric. he was every bit the dirtbag that he was in his series. but this time he was also quite humorous. he accomplished something that even Deadpool hasn't; making Taskmaster laugh.

So it ends up being a small brawl with Cassie, Pym, and Eric. Taskmaster hops on board as new drill instructor and looks pretty cool.

Taskmaster was efficient, as ever. good thing he broke up that fight. it was getting pretty dirty.

Also give the background on how Pym came up with the idea for the initiative. Somehow it appears MVP merged with the Space weapon that was attached to armory and maybe destroying the base. It was a last page reveal so not sure who MVP is trying to kill. My review is scatterbrained, but good issue.

yes, very good issue. i was confused about the weapon on KIA's arm. it appeared to be replacing his entire arm (when it was just like a long sleeve on Armory). anyways, he really made a mess of the base. i can't wait to see some of the other new recruits get some of the spotlight. i don't know anything about some of them.

vtlogypj

12-28-2007, 02:18 PM

yes, very good issue. i was confused about the weapon on KIA's arm. it appeared to be replacing his entire arm (when it was just like a long sleeve on Armory). anyways, he really made a mess of the base. i can't wait to see some of the other new recruits get some of the spotlight. i don't know anything about some of them.

Given the events of the annual, it is likely that the weapon on MVP's arm is not the tactigon but another weapon that fell from the space battle. Also, the weapons appear to bond with only one individual, e.g. Gauntlet or Armory, but it does not appear to be the uber-powerful weapon gauntlet found in the desert.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 02:20 PM

Given the events of the annual, it is likely that the weapon on MVP's arm is not the tactigon but another weapon that fell from the space battle. Also, the weapons appear to bond with only one individual, e.g. Gauntlet or Armory, but it does not appear to be the uber-powerful weapon gauntlet found in the desert.

well he seems to have destroyed an entire building with it. that's sort of uber-powerful.

spidervenom

12-28-2007, 03:33 PM

I liked this issue with the return of antman and getting wacked by a bus, Oh o grady, you so crazy. Also Didnt hank learn anything from clor?

slapstickinitiative

12-28-2007, 03:37 PM

which mvp clone got the arm gauntlet?

Beast

12-28-2007, 03:39 PM

which mvp clone got the arm gauntlet?
Probably the one that was just decanted in the recent Annual.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 03:42 PM

which mvp clone got the arm gauntlet?

we don't know for sure, yet. but he looks pissed!

Probably the one that was just decanted in the recent Annual.

when was he killed in action?

Shyft

12-28-2007, 04:52 PM

I liked this issue with the return of antman and getting wacked by a bus, Oh o grady, you so crazy. Also Didnt hank learn anything from clor?

Hank doesnt learn, ever.

Also, is KIA definately an MVP clone? because i assumed that KIA (Killed In Action) WAS the dead MVP, somehow resurrected (maybe by the gun?) and pissed off.

Alphaxman

12-28-2007, 04:53 PM

RonnieThunderbolts

12-28-2007, 04:56 PM

when was he killed in action?

He has the memories of the original, as told in the annual, which would be adequate explanation for the name.

CMBMOOL

12-28-2007, 05:09 PM

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 05:26 PM

He has the memories of the original, as told in the annual, which would be adequate explanation for the name.

then why's he not wearing a shirt?

RonnieThunderbolts

12-28-2007, 05:28 PM

then why's he not wearing a shirt?

If he IS the original, why is he wearing pants/boots when he has been shown naked in the lab? Are covers always 100% accurate? I'm not really sure what your question is relation to, why would the clone from the annual have to wear a shirt? If he snapped and went homicidal, he may pop off his shirt too, doesn't seem weird to me.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 05:29 PM

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 05:34 PM

If he IS the original, why is he wearing pants/boots when he has been shown naked in the lab?

because the facility is full of spare boots and pants. they hand them out to the new recruits.

Are covers always 100% accurate? I'm not really sure what your question is relation to, why would the clone from the annual have to wear a shirt? If he snapped and went homicidal, he may pop off his shirt too, doesn't seem weird to me.

just screwing with you. i just happen to think that it's the original.

Shyft

12-28-2007, 05:44 PM

just screwing with you. i just happen to think that it's the original.

me too! me and Magneto_Rocks had a list of things we agreed on and made a massive fanfare whenever we added to it.But then he went and got himself banned, so i think me and you should get one instead.

TotalWorldDomination

12-28-2007, 06:13 PM

me too! me and Magneto_Rocks had a list of things we agreed on and made a massive fanfare whenever we added to it.But then he went and got himself banned, so i think me and you should get one instead.

I miss Magneto_Rocks more then I miss logical plotline conclusions in DC event related books... And I STILL don't know how he got banned... :(

I loved this issue. I hope we get to see lots more Ant-Family throwdowns in the future. Eric is a glorious bastard.

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 06:25 PM

Bullet points:

-Crazy issue, Slott's been on a roll with this book since day one, the man's a wrecking machine.

-I like Hardball and Komodo together, thats some funny stuff and I've been wanting to see it but I'm surprised it just happened, didn't really get to see where it came from or develop but oh well, the book has to move fast with such a big cast.

-Why can't Cassie Lang just be woman enough to admit her theiving con pervert dad was never Ant-Man and never will be? Honest upstanding kids like Eric O'Grady, this is where the initiative cloth needs to be cut from. Props to Eric for telling it like he is. Scott Lang ate babies, Cassie, deal with it, sister.

-Yes, please define lil girl, Hank, becuase if I was being assaulted by a gigantic angry hormonal teenager, I'd smack em in the face with that too.

-I'm almost certain thats the third weapon, not the tactigon. It's white.

-Why do I get the feeling that if Taskmaster wasn't his drill instructor, he and Eric would get along surprisingly well?

-So Komodo's another amputee, hmm? Can't walk without her spark, no wonder she was so scared of the spin tech and washing out.

-I'm betting money thats the MVP that was killed. Unless they give the new clone variations some insane brain steroids, can't say I blame the kid for going insane though, I only wish that was Gyrich staring down that barrel.

-I'm abit torn here, I get a euphoric glee out of Gyrich, Pym, Reed and Stark's eggheaded failures but if the initiative is destroyed, this book would be the first one to go, I'm really torn as to who to root for here.

Alphaxman

12-28-2007, 06:31 PM

I should really say this because I never read Ant-man but I hate characters like him. His like Deadpool but with out the heart. I find him churl and unfunny.

Ant-man III fans attack. :D

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 06:32 PM

*smacks Alpha lightly on the nose with a rolled up newspaper*

PunisherFan

12-28-2007, 06:38 PM

I liked this issue. KIA looks pretty badass... wonder who the dead recruit is but I guess I'll just have to wait a month for it.

TotalWorldDomination

12-28-2007, 06:42 PM

I've decided that not only do we need scott lang back alive, but we need Hank to get demoted from the initative to run the G.I. Ant man department for SHEILD. We'll get back every character who's ever had the name Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket or derived there powers from Pym Particles, give them there own comic and let them form a glorious dysfunctional cast where everybody hates everybody and plays the Wii. We'll Call it the Irredeemable GI Ant man corps.

I'd buy it.

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 06:48 PM

Oh and by the way, it's not Ant-Man III, it's THE Ant-Man. ;)

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 06:53 PM

I miss Magneto_Rocks more then I miss logical plotline conclusions in DC event related books... And I STILL don't know how he got banned... :(

I loved this issue. I hope we get to see lots more Ant-Family throwdowns in the future. Eric is a glorious bastard.

i don't know if 'The Glorious Ant-Man' would work as a title. ;)

Oh and by the way, it's not Ant-Man III, it's THE Ant-Man. ;)

damn skippy! :D Cassie was kind of # 3 anyways; followed by Chris McCarthy.

I've decided that not only do we need scott lang back alive, but we need Hank to get demoted from the initative to run the G.I. Ant man department for SHEILD. We'll get back every character who's ever had the name Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket or derived there powers from Pym Particles, give them there own comic and let them form a glorious dysfunctional cast where everybody hates everybody and plays the Wii. We'll Call it the Irredeemable GI Ant man corps.

I'd buy it.

i'd settle for a G.I. Ant-Man action figure with a mini bus for him to swing. Eric had me roll'n this issue. do you have any idea how hard it is to make me laugh about Scott Lang's memory being whizzed all over? Eric accomplished this mission. i was hoping they'd just let him run his mouth all issue. i did kind of want to see more from Kirkman's other creation (Crusader), though. it was a suprise to see him in his human form.

Shyft

12-28-2007, 06:54 PM

I miss Magneto_Rocks more then I miss logical plotline conclusions in DC event related books... And I STILL don't know how he got banned... :(

I loved this issue. I hope we get to see lots more Ant-Family throwdowns in the future. Eric is a glorious bastard.

me too, in an odd way. i think we actually looked out for each others posts for something to argue about. id really like to know why he got banned, and if it was permanent. thats pretty unusual, im pretty sure Haunt was allowed back a few times.

Oh and the G.I Ant Man Corps sounds awesome. could even res Bill Foster and he could be the G.I Ant Man CorpsE.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 06:58 PM

I should really say this because I never read Ant-man but I hate characters like him. His like Deadpool but with out the heart. I find him churl and unfunny.

Ant-man III fans attack. :D

he made Taskmaster laugh. Deadpool never pulled that off. and, seriously, who uses the word 'churl?' :D

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 07:02 PM

me too, in an odd way. i think we actually looked out for each others posts for something to argue about. id really like to know why he got banned, and if it was permanent. thats pretty unusual, im pretty sure Haunt was allowed back a few times.

i'm Haunt and i was never banned.

Oh and the G.I Ant Man Corps sounds awesome. could even res Bill Foster and he could be the G.I Ant Man CorpsE.

or maybe Eric could sleep with the Wasp on Bill's grave.

TotalWorldDomination

12-28-2007, 07:02 PM

me too, in an odd way. i think we actually looked out for each others posts for something to argue about. id really like to know why he got banned, and if it was permanent. thats pretty unusual, im pretty sure Haunt was allowed back a few times.

Here's hoping.

Oh and the G.I Ant Man Corps sounds awesome. could even res Bill Foster and he could be the G.I Ant Man CorpsE.

*rimshot*

TotalWorldDomination

12-28-2007, 07:03 PM

or maybe Eric could sleep with the Wasp on Bill's grave.

I vote for that. could a schoolbus full of traumatized children be forced to watch?

Shyft

12-28-2007, 07:05 PM

i'm Haunt and i was never banned.

oh, my bad. SOMEONE definately got banned and was allowed back. cant remember who.

or maybe Eric could sleep with the Wasp on Bill's grave.

wow thats even worse than mine. Bill's grave is a huge field, they'd have to..move around alot..or maybe they could grow to giant size, use it as a bed...

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 07:10 PM

I could see Eric grave robbing Bill Foster.

It would be a good sight gag at the very least.

RonnieThunderbolts

12-28-2007, 07:15 PM

The one reason I DON'T think it is the original is because there are no autopsy scars or hole in his head, and I think the whole point of the origin in the Annual was to explain the MVP we saw in Kentucky when Cloud-9 and Justice went there and to show that he is starting to lose his mind, he mentions them not being his memories, and it not being his home. I think it makes more sense to see that clone lose it, and come back for revenge. If his arm weapon IS the Tactigon, perhaps it responds to total desperation. I believe it is mentioned in the Annual that Armory and the Tactigon needed each other, and she was suicidal before she got it. What if it responds to the MVP clone's need for revenge? I don't know, a resurrected original MVP makes sense too, but I don't think he is superpowered on his own, or healed with a slow healing factor like some internet speculators have suggested, if KIA is actually the original MVP, the only way it works to me is if he is brought back by an outside force. Either way, it looks like a blast.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 07:22 PM

-I like Hardball and Komodo together, thats some funny stuff and I've been wanting to see it but I'm surprised it just happened, didn't really get to see where it came from or develop but oh well, the book has to move fast with such a big cast.

i don't even really like either character but i like that they are together. these characters were due for some fleshing out. and we should care if one of them were to die. Hardball is, at least, shaping up to be a complex hero. his motivations aren't pure but he does have a slight noble streak.

-Why can't Cassie Lang just be woman enough to admit her theiving con pervert dad was never Ant-Man and never will be? Honest upstanding kids like Eric O'Grady, this is where the initiative cloth needs to be cut from. Props to Eric for telling it like he is. Scott Lang ate babies, Cassie, deal with it, sister.

LOL!! if they had done Ant-Man like this, originally, they wouldn't have needed all of those imitators. Eric is the sh*t! "Oh noes! you stepped on Stingray!"

-Yes, please define lil girl, Hank, becuase if I was being assaulted by a gigantic angry hormonal teenager, I'd smack em in the face with that too.

i would have been happier had Slott not written him beating up a girl. but i'll get over it. it was a fun scene. and the best was Eric, after besmirching her dad's name, asked Cassie "who's your daddy, now?" wow, that was cold.

-I'm almost certain thats the third weapon, not the tactigon. It's white.

yeah, it definately looks different. it's attached higher than the tactigon was, too. i kind of hope it is a separate weapon just so Armory could possibly show up elsewhere. if not, then i guess i still have Southpaw.

-Why do I get the feeling that if Taskmaster wasn't his drill instructor, he and Eric would get along surprisingly well?

that was my favorite moment. i could almost hear Edward Brock jr from the Spider-man movie talking beneath Eric's faceplate. he knew exactly how to kiss Taskmaster's @$$. i would definately buy an Ant-Man/Taskmaster buddy book. when Taskmaster said, "wait'll i tell the guys" i wonder who he was talking about. do they still let him hang out with other villains?

-So Komodo's another amputee, hmm? Can't walk without her spark, no wonder she was so scared of the spin tech and washing out.

i was confused about that scene. is she just paralyzed from the waste down? i wonder how connor's formula fixed that.

-I'm betting money thats the MVP that was killed. Unless they give the new clone variations some insane brain steroids, can't say I blame the kid for going insane though, I only wish that was Gyrich staring down that barrel.

and what was up w/ that plan to fill every state with MVP clones? i wonder where this is going.

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 07:22 PM

I really don't think it's the Tactigon.

Go back and compare the two, I do think thats exactly whats going to be used to put the poor kid down though.

Remember, there were three weapons.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 07:23 PM

I vote for that. could a schoolbus full of traumatized children be forced to watch?

Power Pack hasn't been bused in yet, right? ;)

The one reason I DON'T think it is the original is because there are no autopsy scars or hole in his head, and I think the whole point of the origin in the Annual was to explain the MVP we saw in Kentucky when Cloud-9 and Justice went there and to show that he is starting to lose his mind, he mentions them not being his memories, and it not being his home. I think it makes more sense to see that clone lose it, and come back for revenge. If his arm weapon IS the Tactigon, perhaps it responds to total desperation. I believe it is mentioned in the Annual that Armory and the Tactigon needed each other, and she was suicidal before she got it. What if it responds to the MVP clone's need for revenge? I don't know, a resurrected original MVP makes sense too, but I don't think he is superpowered on his own, or healed with a slow healing factor like some internet speculators have suggested, if KIA is actually the original MVP, the only way it works to me is if he is brought back by an outside force. Either way, it looks like a blast.

yeah, anything is possible. if i had it my way, it would be the clone who was sent home. and the real MVP would return after somehow being healed. not likely but i really liked the original. he had future-Captain America written all over him.

wow thats even worse than mine. Bill's grave is a huge field, they'd have to..move around alot..or maybe they could grow to giant size, use it as a bed...

if it were put to a vote, i'd want Eric to just hook up with Diamondback.

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 07:26 PM

and what was up w/ that plan to fill every state with MVP clones? i wonder where this is going.
Knowing Gyrich, straight to hell.

It's literally WI: Civil War all over again.

Giving Gyrich clones is liking giving a pyromaniac the Human Torch's powers.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 07:28 PM

Knowing Gyrich, straight to hell.

It's literally WI: Civil War all over again.

Giving Gyrich clones is liking giving a pyromaniac the Human Torch's powers.

do you think Geldoff is part of Dr.Doom's big plan? Doom seems to have his hand in a lot of titles, right now.

Dr. Chaos

12-28-2007, 07:50 PM

i would have been happier had Slott not written him beating up a girl.
I would have had a major problem with it if Stature wasn't a meta human and trying to beat the crap out of him or if Eric attacked her without provacation.

But regardless of his crude (and hilarious) barbs, he acted in self defense.

That scene was smartly written, yes, Eric hit a woman and you can add that to his "credibility" but he really didn't have much of a choice. I doubt they've gotten to the part in training where you're shown how to safely restrain a pissed off giant.

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 07:56 PM

I would have had a major problem with it if Stature wasn't a meta human and trying to beat the crap out of him or if Eric attacked her without provacation.

But regardless of his crude (and hilarious) barbs, he acted in self defense.

That scene was smartly written, yes, Eric hit a woman and you can add that to his "credibility" but he really didn't have much of a choice. I doubt they've gotten to the part in training where you're shown how to safely restrain a pissed off giant.

plus Cassie wasn't exactly out of the fight. Pym stepped in but she was just about to get up and put a hurting on Eric, right back. i'd say it was a good natured fight between 2 giants. and Cassie really was playing unfairly since her powers aren't mechanical in nature. she was really going to kill/hospitalize him with her initial attack. Eric's lucky that there were growing particles within the armor.

RonnieThunderbolts

12-28-2007, 08:32 PM

I really don't think it's the Tactigon.

Go back and compare the two, I do think thats exactly whats going to be used to put the poor kid down though.

Remember, there were three weapons.

I'm pretty sure it is the Tactigon. It looks a whole lot more like the Tactigon than it does the other weapon that was recovered, the giant sword-like weapon held by the alien using the gauntlets that Gauntlet and Southpaw now have attached to their arms. Go back and compare the weapon to the Tactigon and the sword-like weapon and there is no question it is more similar to the Tactigon.

Dagger

12-28-2007, 08:51 PM

do you think Geldoff is part of Dr.Doom's big plan? Doom seems to have his hand in a lot of titles, right now.
LMAO!!!

WTF is Geldoff actually doing in the 616??? Oh, Messers Slott and Gage! I usually have faith in all you do, but GELDOFF??

And I really don't like O'Grady. He's a jack-ass, which is usually a good character trait for me, but he's just an uncouth bastard.

This story really made me love Komodo all the more. She's now my second favorite Initiative member right after Armory. I never knew I would like one of Dan Slott's arm-weapon people until the annual!

P.S. Dan, still boo on the Southpaw and Gauntlet. BOO!:evilsmile

Monty_Cristo

12-28-2007, 08:54 PM

LMAO!!!

WTF is Geldoff actually doing in the 616??? Oh, Messers Slott and Gage! I usually have faith in all you do, but GELDOFF??

he's a character called Proton in the 616. he hasn't had any speaking lines yet but he is really scruffy-looking. i hope he immediately gets into trouble blowing stuff up.
http://shutter07.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/009/77/F4/54/40/Mx+km6QTgMagtiQhq9+7OcOB3ouU1dsy0300.jpg

And I really don't like O'Grady. He's a jack-ass, which is usually a good character trait for me, but he's just an uncouth bastard.

you shouldn't like O'Grady. you should worship him!

This story really made me love Komodo all the more. She's now my second favorite Initiative member right after Armory. I never knew I would like one of Dan Slott's arm-weapon people until the annual!

i liked Armory from the start. she's got/had an awesome weapon.

ok, so who wants to bet that Crusader creates a nintendo wii with his power ring?

Diablito

12-28-2007, 08:59 PM

Great issue. Loved the reveal of Komodo's "disability," and Hardball's reaction made him seem like less of a jerk. Ant-Man is hilarious, and it would be fun to see him under the G.I. Ant-Man name. Taskmaster seems fun, and I'm still wondering which new recruit is a skrull.

Blader5489

12-28-2007, 09:03 PM

Previews showed that someone had been killed at the beginning of the issue. Did they reveal who it was?

Dagger

12-28-2007, 09:04 PM

he's a character called Proton in the 616. he hasn't had any speaking lines yet but he is really scruffy-looking. i hope he immediately gets into trouble blowing stuff up.
http://shutter07.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/009/77/F4/54/40/Mx+km6QTgMagtiQhq9+7OcOB3ouU1dsy0300.jpg
Hmmm....as the red queen says OFF WITH HIS HEAD! He was lame in Ult. Spidey but I'll give him a chance.

you shouldn't like O'Grady. you should worship him!
Eh, he's not for me. The other guy who died in the first issue totally should have been the new Ant-Man imo. Plus, what he said to Cassie was just way harsh!:mad:

i liked Armory from the start. she's got/had an awesome weapon.

ok, so who wants to bet that Crusader creates a nintendo wii with his power ring?
It took me til the annual because I thought 'Oh, Great! It's Southpaw joins the A:I!' But when we got an actual look at who she was as a character, I really started to like her a lot more.

Will.S

12-28-2007, 09:21 PM

Previews showed that someone had been killed at the beginning of the issue. Did they reveal who it was?
Looks kind of like Dragon Lord's arm.

Very good issue by the way, Slott writes Ant-Man as the grade a jerk he was in his own title although him fighting Cassie is sort of pushing it but then again almost nothing is too crazy for him. Taskmaster is another great addition, so far he's been better than Gauntlet in entertainment. Good catch to the people who spotted Komodo's legs being amputated, I never caught that part of the art until it was mentioned here.

Hardball and her relationship has grown pretty quickly with this issue but it's a good hook-up. It kind of sucks about how Gyrich is so dismissive about War Machine but Dan also mentioned in a podcast that we haven't seen Rhodey with his mask off which is interesting. I'm guessing that maybe he's remote controlling the armor or he's some sort of skrull.

Lastly Hank Pym f'ed up yet again, I can't believe he considered Gyrich's idea when he was just saying it on a whim. I was under the impression that this was MVP's original body with the tactigon as well but it could definitely be the clone from the Annual. I'm iffy about what weapon he has because some of them change shape depending on their use but maybe we'll have to wait for it to hit the default form, it makes sense that it would be the tactigon though since Armory lost it.

So far I think some of the major kills are going to be Rage, Cloud 9, Komodo, some of the new recruits seen in this issue, and maybe a skrull imposter or something. It's really hard to say at this point but I'm really looking forward and dreading the deaths.

Caselli's art looked surprisingly good here compared to his other issues, it must be the coloring adding more depth and texture to the art as well slowly the art is really getting up there. I particularly loved the splash of the Initiative which looked like they took the image right out of the Battle Damage Report cover done by Ed McG.

8.5-9/10

Blader5489

12-28-2007, 09:47 PM

Looks kind of like Dragon Lord's arm.

Isn't he one of the new recruits though? Seems kind of pointless as far as "thinning the herd" goes.

Vaal

12-28-2007, 11:16 PM

I think this is the tactigon's way of escaping Camp Hammond to get back to its owner. Grand Theft Corpse.

storm_willing_slave

12-28-2007, 11:54 PM

since she abandon the YA and joined the Initiative, I figure the smackdown she got came from one of her own! It was harsh, but whatever! I considered her a traitor!:evilsmile

worstblogever

12-29-2007, 01:09 AM

Hardball made another big mistake... if there's one dude you don't threaten to air his dirty laundry to the media... it's Gyrich. First chance he gets... Gyrich is gonna leave him to die somehow, if not kill him and make it look like an accident.

elaniel

12-29-2007, 04:45 AM

After having a rant in the thread about the last issue, I'm glad we finally get some more time with the kids (who I thought the book was supposed to be about).

So I'm very happy about it seeming to focus more on the kids now again. Was a really good issue!

FrogMan

12-29-2007, 05:48 AM

Who are the new recruits?

And anymore Frog-Man in this issue?

Big Red Spider

12-29-2007, 11:04 AM

IMO the best marvel book right now.

storm_willing_slave

12-29-2007, 12:19 PM

IMO the best marvel book right now.
I wouldn't go that far. Not with Nova, Captain America, and Iron Fist out there! Not to mention Sub-Mariner, Exiles, Fantastic Four, Thunderbolts, and New Avengers! Nope, I wouldn't goes as far to say that, but everyone has their favorites!:D

jade_nova

12-29-2007, 01:20 PM

Monty_Cristo

12-29-2007, 02:46 PM

I felt like Ant-Man was a little off in this issue. Up until he started fighting Cassie he sounded like the character Kirkman created but when the fight started I got more of a Deadpool vibe from him.

i see what you're saying. but a few changes must be expected since Kirkman's no longer writing the character. besides, the costume changed Eric throughout his solo series. he didn't start off being a wise-cracker but was one during most of his encounters with Mitch. compare the fight with Cassie to his fight with the ant-man-armored Mitch in the SHIELD cafeteria. it wasn't drastically different. he was a dirty fighter who wouldn't stop talking in both scenes. it is very Deadpoolish but there's no real way around that when he's wearing a red face mask. i appreciate that it was classic Eric while he was talking to Taskmaster/saving his own rear, though. and he was definately scene stealing. i don't remember any of the original Camp Hammond recruits having such a strong personality. i almost wish that there'd be a spin-off with Gyrich, Taskmaster, Constrictor, Crusader, Diamondback, and Ant-Man.

Hardball made another big mistake... if there's one dude you don't threaten to air his dirty laundry to the media... it's Gyrich. First chance he gets... Gyrich is gonna leave him to die somehow, if not kill him and make it look like an accident.

yeah really. Gyrich has always been a shark. but he's got an easy out this time. he's already been shown talking to that Hydra-Congressman who has all of that dirt on Hardball. it would be easy to get him back in line. but, just to throw this out there, i think Komodo is going to die and it's going to drive Hardball to become that Power Broker character who gave him his powers. anything is possible in the Marvel Universe because of time travel.

FrogMan

12-29-2007, 05:34 PM

Anyone? I'd really like to know.

christosgage

12-29-2007, 05:44 PM

Anyone? I'd really like to know.

Frog-Man was not in Initiative #8. And given the title of the story arc, you should probably be glad! ;)

Monty_Cristo

12-31-2007, 02:28 PM

Frog-Man was not in Initiative #8. And given the title of the story arc, you should probably be glad! ;)

now that Taskmaster has taken over drill instructor duties at Camp Hammond, can they change their slogan to "Strike first. Strike hard. No mercy?"

Dr. Chaos

12-31-2007, 03:15 PM

Hey, Christos, any plans for Mutant Zero in the near future?

Dan has made a big deal out of her in a couple of interviews in the past but all we've really gotten so far is a peek.

(Congratulations on the book by the way)

christosgage

12-31-2007, 06:37 PM

now that Taskmaster has taken over drill instructor duties at Camp Hammond, can they change their slogan to "Strike first. Strike hard. No mercy?"

I think "sweep the leg" is catchier.

Dan and I have plans for Mutant Zero, yes.

Best,

CNG

maniacmatt

12-31-2007, 10:23 PM

Dan_Slott

12-31-2007, 10:44 PM

This ish was awesome aside from one thing: Ant Man has armor over his achilles tendon. Taskmaster's shield attack shouldn't have worked against him. The panel that showed the shield hitting them made it really obvious too, I thought. Very minor, I admit but still...
But like I said, I love this book.

The shield is made of a special vibranium alloy that can set up vibrational frequencies through armors made of lesser metals-- especially those that have been saturated by Pym Particles.

There. :)

In Ye Olde Days, when people brought up this kinda' silliness they provided their own No Prize solutions. You're makin' me work too hard, maniacmatt. And I got me a bad head cold to boot (just ask Chris).

Aghhh! Back to work. (That ten minute break? That was my entire holiday season for 2008! *sigh* How long till 2009?) ;)

maniacmatt

01-01-2008, 12:36 AM

Holy crap. Dan Slott just talked to me. :eek: I am not worthy.
But I will by that hastily thought up explanation.

Dr. Chaos

01-01-2008, 02:35 AM

As one of my favorite writers and with all due respect, Dan, don't you ever leave this book for Spider-Man, do you hear me? I will take you down to china town, big man.

God, I love the Initiative.

(never thought I'd hear those words come out of my mouth)

DeadXMan

01-01-2008, 02:57 AM

The shield is made of a special vibranium alloy that can set up vibrational frequencies through armors made of lesser metals-- especially those that have been saturated by Pym Particles.

There. :)

In Ye Olde Days, when people brought up this kinda' silliness they provided their own No Prize solutions. You're makin' me work too hard, maniacmatt. And I got me a bad head cold to boot (just ask Chris).

Aghhh! Back to work. (That ten minute break? That was my entire holiday season for 2008! *sigh* How long till 2009?) ;)

are they still doing the E-No prizes:confused: :confused:

Beast

01-01-2008, 08:54 AM

are they still doing the E-No prizes:confused: :confused:
Can Dan Slott really earn a E-No Prize, when he's the one writing the book?

He could leave things vague just to rack up prizes. :D

Monty_Cristo

01-01-2008, 02:14 PM

Big Red Spider

01-02-2008, 11:17 AM

The art on this book is awesome. I love the line work, the coloring is really good. All of the caracters look awesome and you get a real feel of the action, like in the giant fight.

I really don't know how to critique writing. I know with art I can tell by looking if it's stylistic, but with writing I don't know what Im talking about. What I do know is that I love these characters. I really like Komodo, her hard edge and vulnerability are realy endearing. Hardball is okay. And it's too bad Cloud9's a skrull, I thought she was so cute in the beginning.

It was great seeing Ant-Man again. He was cracking me up telling people that Scott Lang peeked at Ms. Marvel in the shower. I'll have to agree that he sounded a Deadpoolish during the fight, but he such a great character it didn't matter. But what is the deal with "G.I. AntMan"? I don't like that at all.

Let's see we got a goverment controlled super hero agency lead by Henry Peter Gyrich. Wow.

Monty_Cristo

01-02-2008, 02:11 PM

The art on this book is awesome. I love the line work, the coloring is really good. All of the caracters look awesome and you get a real feel of the action, like in the giant fight.

i've gotta wonder (since Dan came up w/ the Earth-A explanation), is Cassie a skrull? Wasn't she at all curious as to why her teammates (Hulkling, at least, was at Camp Hammond) disappeared? or was that explained over in She-Hulk? oh and i love the art, as well. it's the right mix of cartoony and realistic.

It was great seeing Ant-Man again. He was cracking me up telling people that Scott Lang peeked at Ms. Marvel in the shower. I'll have to agree that he sounded a Deadpoolish during the fight, but he such a great character it didn't matter. But what is the deal with "G.I. AntMan"? I don't like that at all.

well Tony and Reed didn't like the sound of it either. but Taskmaster only referred to Eric as 'Ant-Man.'

Big Red Spider

01-02-2008, 05:10 PM

Check out this preliminary sketch of the cover:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s234/mrgone317/Coversketch.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s234/mrgone317/CVRLineart.jpg

Monty_Cristo

01-02-2008, 05:54 PM

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s234/mrgone317/CVRLineart.jpg

that would make a great coloring book. i'm glad that Taskmaster will be heavily featured on the next cover.

Monty_Cristo

01-02-2008, 08:42 PM

AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE CASTING CALL

Henry Peter Gyrich (Michael Keaton) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/6275/Events/6275/ActorMich_Leste_14534764_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Keaton,%20Michael

War Machine (Terrence Howard)http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/6747/Events/6747/ActorTerr_John_15254846_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Howard,%20Terrence

Yellowjacket
Josh Brolin http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/6691/Events/6691/ActorJosh_Dimit_15187694_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Brolin,%20Josh
or
(Cary Elwes) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1279/Events/1279/CaryElwes_Aussenard_257992_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Elwes,%20Cary
note: i doubt they'd be able to afford Harrison Ford or Aaron Eckhart.

Gauntlet
(Ving Rhames) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0255819/Ss/0255819/Batch_4_08.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Rhames,%20Ving
(Christopher Judge) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0118480/Ss/0118480/7?path=pgallery&path_key=Judge,%20Christopher
or
(Gunnery Sgt Harvey Walden) http://www.harveywalden.com/

Baron von Blitzschlag (Sir Ian McKellan) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0118636/Ss/0118636/1?path=pgallery&path_key=McKellen,%20Ian

Triathlon (Duane Martin) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/5215/Events/5215/DuaneMarti_Caulf_10431116_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Martin,%20Duane

MVP (Garret Hedlund) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/3355/Events/3355/GarrettHed_Grani_5506049_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Hedlund,%20Garrett

Trauma (Zac Effron) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/scrapbook/179/Sbk/179/0909.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Efron,%20Zac

Rage (Texas Battle) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1564024/

Slapstick (Michael Bacall) http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0252684/Ss/0252684/MANIC09.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Bacall,%20Michael

that's all i have, so far.

jackolover

01-04-2008, 01:20 AM

I really enjoyed this issue as well. To mean the best part was the interment relation with Hardball and Komodo. But I’m really starting to feel sorry for Hank. He never seems to get anything right. With all his brilliant plans something bad always comes of it. That never happens to Reed. Maybe the best thing is just to kill him off so Marvel writers can stop kicking him around.

That scene where Reed laughs at Hanks idea for a GI Ant-Man, is indicative of how seriously Hank is being taken. We didn't get that impression in Civil War, because Reed held Hank in high esteem, in that story. Maybe Dan and Christos are retconing that good aspect of Hank, with a darker interpretation.

This issue had so much intensity, right from the start, when Hank stepped in the blood of a killed recruit, and we got some knowledge on who came up with 50 state Initiative - Hank. Then we get the further MVP clones suggestion by Gyrich, and we can remember that smile on dead MVP's face in the AI Anual, so maybe MVP has been controlling the Iron Spiders. But for MVP to turn evil seems a stretch, unless they turn him into a Zombie. Otherwise, the armory weaponede killer is just a clone gone wild.

Looks like Sue Richards has been replaced as Dragon Mans old mate, by Komodo, whose tail is longer than Sues, (but not as round... and smooth... and tender. Oh, yes. The rest of the story. Sorry). Hardballs threats to the Initiative are not going un-noticed, and also, Hardballs little crack to Komodo, that 'we are all a little damaged goods', I thought, was a slap in the face for Komodo.

This is number one of a four issue arc, and already, Camp Hammond is destroyed, and Hank Pym is due to be evaporated. (Unless he can shrink to sub-atomic size and escape like last time). Where is this going? I doubt Hank will be killed, but with the damage done by the MVP rogue, Stamford Connecticut is going to get another dose of destruction, despite the amount of Avengers at the facility. So, as far as Hank is concerned, all the rhetoric at the opening of Camp Hammond will be worthless. Does this mean Project Wideawake will be resurrected? Did everyone else see the Sentinel in that flight of Avengers, Iron Man pointed at?

and what was up w/ that plan to fill every state with MVP clones? i wonder where this is going.

What could have happened is, the real MVP healed up despite all the organs that were taken out in the autopsy. He sees all the clones that the Nazi makes of MVP, for populating the 50 state Initiative, and he is p*ssed. He goes on a sortie, and finds the Armory weapon, and fits it on, (so ironic, as this killed him). Then he goes on a revenge rampage of the whole facility, because he is convinced this must be the work of the devil, and Initiative has to be wiped off the map.

I loved how they gave us background information on the 100 point plan, not shown in Civil War, and how this Intiative was Henry Pyms plan. I liked the flashback on the 3 big-brains at that meeting during CW #1, where they did come up with ideas for a new deal with normals, and how they made that meeting a closed meeting, not inviting luminaries like Captain America. They were definately a club. Not saying that the club was exclusive, because there have been occasions where Iron Man tried to get other people, like Namor and Dr Strange, involved. Apparantly, Tony Stark made the call that Steve Rogers would not be interested in this kind of plan, so left him out, and, Maria Hill was privy to this kind of logic, as well, and that's why we had the rebels. Tony always predicted there would be some who would agree with SHRA and others who wouldn't, and Tony seemed to know those who wouldn't, (Cap, Spiderwoman 1, Cage).

jackolover

01-04-2008, 01:38 AM

and what was up w/ that plan to fill every state with MVP clones? i wonder where this is going.

What could have happened is, the real MVP healed up despite all the organs that were taken out in the autopsy. He sees all the clones that the Nazi makes of MVP, for populating the 50 state Initiative, and he is p*ssed. He goes on a sortie, and finds the Armory weapon, and fits it on, (so ironic, as this killed him). Then he goes on a revenge rampage of the whole facility, because he is convinced this must be the work of the devil, and Initiative has to be wiped off the map.

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 04:51 PM

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 05:35 PM

jackolover

01-06-2008, 05:58 PM

I don't know, Taskmaster? Then again given the character of the people running things it makes sense.
Man it is great to be a supervillain in the mu, you can do every crime you can think of and they hand you a great job doing what you love to do. And just so you can really have fun one of your students is the daughter of the man you tried to kill a few times. I wonder how long it will be before Taskmaster slips something into Cassie's drink and rapes her? After all it's not like he has to worry about consequences. And she isn't the only girl too, this guy's in a paradise.
And he's got so many other kids to choose from, to single out who will make a good part of a supervillain squad, who HYDRA or AIM would pay good money to have on thier team. He can tell them who would be the best ones to have, who is the most greedy and corruptible and who knows how many government databases he now has access too.
And this was the grand plan of the Initiative? Oh those poor kids. At least they are seeing up front that there is no real concept of justice when you deal with the US government in the MU.

Mark_S

Amen to that. The government has enforced it's stronghold over metas, and there is nothing they can do about it, either. Little things like Taskmaster and his extremes are just what the government want to subject the little young metas too. Better to have the younge metas subject to government 'training' than not. This is just about what it was like on Sakaar, with the Red King in control. Greg Pak has given us the prescription of what the MU will be like in a few years. They're all being trained to be gladiators.

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:09 PM

Taskmaster doesn't do that. He's strictly professional. And realistically, he's the ultimate satisfier of the female gender. He can copy the charms and moves of any smooth operator out there. He's so professional, in fact, Deadshot from the DCU wishes he could be that good.

Cassie deserved to get truck smacked. After Civil War and ditching the Young Avengers, maybe she'll learn how to be a better team player. There are still a few "Save Ant-Man" Banners floating around here. We need another "keep his pimp hand strong" one with that truck smack panel. I demand it.

I agree normally he wouldn't do it, but then how often has he been in this situation? I'd guess that he has those nanite things in him, but they wouldn't stop arousal, only violent activity. Or would they? I'm not sure. If he had to beat her up and rape her I'm sure they'd kick in, but drugged she wouldn't offer enough of a struggle to trigger them. It depends on how closely they are watching him, and given that this is the US government in the MU I don't have a lot of faith that they are.

And I really don't know about Cassie but I do feel sorry for her. She was bounced between relatives and her father and her mother, the last guy her mother married was a cop who hated superheroes, Tony never would tell her how her father died, when she got powers and tried to help people the government tried to kill her (or capture her, the difference in some of the cw battles with Cape Killers and Clor was negligible), Captain America first refused to train her and the rest of the YA and then welcomed her into his tent during cw... who know what the other YA think of her and they were her only friends...And then of course there was the mind control by the Puppet Master. If anyone is under a bad star in her life it is Cassie. I wouldn't be surprised that after a little of the Camp Hammond style live firefight training-and with the Taskmaster as an example of doing everything wrong and still coming out on top-if Cassie would try suicide. Or just decided to hang it up or switch sides and be a villainess. After all that is part of what Camp Hammond is designed to do:break the kids.

Mark_S

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 06:11 PM

Wasn't Hawkeye a villain once? Wasn't Vision built by Ultron? Weren't Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in the Brotherhood? Hiring on supervillains doesn't sound like a big, new thing to the Avengers.

When it comes to Taskmaster...why not? The man has the credentials; he's trained supervillains before. Why not put that to some good use and have him train superheroes, rather than just waiting for him to train more supervillains? He can emulate fighting styles; he can teach adaptability in a way few other metahumans can. He's a resource, plain and simple; would be a waste not to use it.

Deadpooligan

01-06-2008, 06:28 PM

I agree normally he wouldn't do it, but then how often has he been in this situation? I'd guess that he has those nanite things in him, but they wouldn't stop arousal, only violent activity. Or would they? I'm not sure. If he had to beat her up and rape her I'm sure they'd kick in, but drugged she wouldn't offer enough of a struggle to trigger them. It depends on how closely they are watching him, and given that this is the US government in the MU I don't have a lot of faith that they are.

Mark_S

Tasky's been in SHIELD's custody a good handful of times, but I very very doubt that he'd attempt to rape a teenage girl. It's just not in his character to do something like that.

His original gimmick was being able to defeat each Perez-era Avenger one-on-one, and training potential supervillains and thugs. Then, it didn't pay off to train chumps, so he stopped doing that. He tried personal combat after retiring crime colleges, but left that after personal injury became too much of an issue. He then took up private assassination and maiming gigs since it was easy and he could handle it well.

After an ego-shattering loss to Moon Knight, I assume he took to training for a higher pay, rather than a cut of profits of future villains. He's had successful training gigs for an ersatz Captain America, Spider-Man, and Hawkeye as paid by Red Skull, he's trained John Walker to be Captain America for the US Government, as well as Crossbones, Diamondback, and Jessica Drew, the last of which I believe was paid for by HYDRA.

SHIELD got him to train their Agents, and now has him training superheroic teens.

The guy trains, watches martial arts movies, and enjoys banter and professional ethics.

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:35 PM

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:37 PM

Tasky's been in SHIELD's custody a good handful of times, but I very very doubt that he'd attempt to rape a teenage girl. It's just not in his character to do something like that.

His original gimmick was being able to defeat each Perez-era Avenger one-on-one, and training potential supervillains and thugs. Then, it didn't pay off to train chumps, so he stopped doing that. He tried personal combat after retiring crime colleges, but left that after personal injury became too much of an issue. He then took up private assassination and maiming gigs since it was easy and he could handle it well.

After an ego-shattering loss to Moon Knight, I assume he took to training for a higher pay, rather than a cut of profits of future villains. He's had successful training gigs for an ersatz Captain America, Spider-Man, and Hawkeye as paid by Red Skull, he's trained John Walker to be Captain America for the US Government, as well as Crossbones, Diamondback, and Jessica Drew, the last of which I believe was paid for by HYDRA.

SHIELD got him to train their Agents, and now has him training superheroic teens.

The guy trains, watches martial arts movies, and enjoys banter and professional ethics.

And is a cold blooded killer. Charming maybe, but still a killer. And from killer to taking advantage of a vulnerable teen age girl who has no real recourse, no one to turn to for help... yea I can see it happening.

Mark_S

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 06:39 PM

And is a cold blooded killer. Charming maybe, but still a killer.

Mark_S

So is Wolverine, but less charming. The X-Men, the Avengers, pretty much everyone accepts him with open arms.

EDIT: In fact, as I recall, the Avengers hired him on SPECIFICALLY because he would get his hands dirty when none of them could.

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:40 PM

So is Wolverine, but less charming. The X-Men, the Avengers, pretty much everyone accepts him with open arms.

EDIT: In fact, as I recall, the Avengers hired him on SPECIFICALLY because he would get his hands dirty when none of them could.

Has Wolverine ever worked for Hydra or the Red Skull?

Mark_S

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 06:40 PM

Has Wolverine ever worked for Hydra or the Red Skull?

Mark_S

He worked for the Hand. Do they count?

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:43 PM

Not when you match them up.

Are you seriously telling me that the man who should be put in charge of super powered kids is a man with no morals or no regrets about who he kills or why?

Mark_S

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:44 PM

Then again reading my own post just now it does seem like his a perfect match in philosophy for Gyrich and the rest of them.

Mark_S

Deadpooligan

01-06-2008, 06:47 PM

And is a cold blooded killer. Charming maybe, but still a killer. And from killer to taking advantage of a vulnerable teen age girl who has no real recourse, no one to turn to for help... yea I can see it happening.

Mark_S

You're kind of making it sound like you want it to happen.

Taskmaster kills based on pay. He's not going to kill someone just for kicks or without reason, he'll do it for money. And he's not getting paid right now, he's just shortening his sentence with the feds, so there's really no motive for him to kill anyone, especially with the nanites.

Rape is just out of the question. I don't want Taskmaster turned into something like Dr. Light. I like him as a professional who does his job, and does it well.

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 06:47 PM

Not when you match them up.

Are you seriously telling me that the man who should be put in charge of super powered kids is a man with no morals or no regrets about who he kills or why?

Mark_S

No, I'm telling you that superhero groups hiring on supervillains isn't a brand new thing. Superheroes have been doing this for a long time. How long was Juggernaut a supervillain before he signed on with Excalibur?

One of the Runaways is going to kill all the superheroes in the world in a future we've seen, but no one seems overly concerned by it.

The Thunderbolts have always thrived on the principle of supervillains, some with ambiguous morals, some without, playing superhero.

Quite a few Avengers have been supervillains. As have quite a few X-Men. It's a time-honored tradition that goes back decades, giving a supervillain a shot at playing hero, sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. This isn't even that; this is giving a supervillain a shot at being useful and applying his abilities in a fashion other than supervillainy. He doesn't even have to be a hero. He just has to do the job.

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:50 PM

No, I'm telling you that superhero groups hiring on supervillains isn't a brand new thing. Superheroes have been doing this for a long time. How long was Juggernaut a supervillain before he signed on with Excalibur?

One of the Runaways is going to kill all the superheroes in the world in a future we've seen, but no one seems overly concerned by it.

The Thunderbolts have always thrived on the principle of supervillains, some with ambiguous morals, some without, playing superhero.

Quite a few Avengers have been supervillains. As have quite a few X-Men. It's a time-honored tradition that goes back decades, giving a supervillain a shot at playing hero, sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. This isn't even that; this is giving a supervillain a shot at being useful and applying his abilities in a fashion other than supervillainy. He doesn't even have to be a hero. He just has to do the job.

But the job is part of the problem I have with it. You are a big law and order guy Tobias, you were all over the anti-sra heroes when we talked about cw. Now what does it say about the law when the penalty for breaking it is a great job doing what you love to do?

Mark_S

Mark_S

01-06-2008, 06:53 PM

You're kind of making it sound like you want it to happen.

Taskmaster kills based on pay. He's not going to kill someone just for kicks or without reason, he'll do it for money. And he's not getting paid right now, he's just shortening his sentence with the feds, so there's really no motive for him to kill anyone, especially with the nanites.

Rape is just out of the question. I don't want Taskmaster turned into something like Dr. Light. I like him as a professional who does his job, and does it well.

Nope, don't want it to happen and I don't think it will happen. I don't think marvel will hit us with that sort of storyline. I'm saying that given the amoral nature of the Taskmaster and the fact that he has near complete control over the kids the possibility is there. He could easily call one of them to the gym for late night training. And I will go further to say that-like MVP's death-if it happens nothing will be done about it.

Mark_S

Tobias Drake

01-06-2008, 07:43 PM

But the job is part of the problem I have with it. You are a big law and order guy Tobias, you were all over the anti-sra heroes when we talked about cw. Now what does it say about the law when the penalty for breaking it is a great job doing what you love to do?

Mark_S

It says that the MU America does have such a thing as community service; those who have broken the law given work that benefits the society, in this case, putting Taskmaster's skills to use where young recruits can learn from them.

StoneGold

01-06-2008, 08:01 PM

Has Wolverine ever worked for Hydra or the Red Skull?

Mark_S

Yes. In fact, Wolvie was apparently one of the very first HYDRA operatives. Had orders from Strucker and Zemo to kill Captain America.

Cthulhudrew

01-06-2008, 08:21 PM

StoneGold

01-06-2008, 09:40 PM

I just had this vision of the Taskmaster watching recordings of VH1's "The Pickup Artist" with Mystery. LOL!

Funny, I had images of him watching old Ron Jeremy tapes.

I did like the portrayal of Tasky though. I hate proactive Tasky. I like the one who prefers only to fight only when he knows there is no chance of him getting his ass kicked. Especially when there isn't any money in it.

DeadXMan

01-06-2008, 09:54 PM

you know this isn't the first time the Goverment has hired Taskmaster

He trianed Jhonny walker to be the next cap

I have never seen TM as a Villian persay
He's a Merc, plain and simple. He gose were he's paid to go.

StoneGold

01-06-2008, 10:04 PM

You want a good comparison for Tasky? He's Erik Prince of Blackwater.

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 06:02 AM

It says that the MU America does have such a thing as community service; those who have broken the law given work that benefits the society, in this case, putting Taskmaster's skills to use where young recruits can learn from them.

Well we've gone over this before, no sense re-hashing it. But I still think that having a supervillain train the kids is only going to show them that the only difference between right and wrong in the mu is timing. You can spend all your life looting and pillaging but as long as your useful to the government you can get away with it all. And the pain of your victims is either ignored or laughed at.

Mark_S

XPac

01-07-2008, 07:06 AM

It says that the MU America does have such a thing as community service; those who have broken the law given work that benefits the society, in this case, putting Taskmaster's skills to use where young recruits can learn from them.

Yeah, but there's a price tag to that.

Having villains in the Initiative compromises the trust the hero community and potentially the public may have in it. And of course, there's the issue of potential corruption. Maybe a part of the reason the government seems so evil in comics is because they're staffing it with evil people. And as we see in TBolts, those inevitable slip ups often leads to openings where the villains end up acting like villains... with heroes or even innocent bystandards paying the price.

Community service may sound nice in theory, but that's an awefully high price tag considering there are plenty of real heroes out there can can teach the heroes the things guys like Taskmaster can.

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 09:08 AM

Yeah, but there's a price tag to that.

Having villains in the Initiative compromises the trust the hero community and potentially the public may have in it. And of course, there's the issue of potential corruption. Maybe a part of the reason the government seems so evil in comics is because they're staffing it with evil people. And as we see in TBolts, those inevitable slip ups often leads to openings where the villains end up acting like villains... with heroes or even innocent bystandards paying the price.

Community service may sound nice in theory, but that's an awefully high price tag considering there are plenty of real heroes out there can can teach the heroes the things guys like Taskmaster can.

You're right; there are plenty of real heroes that can teach things that he can. And it would take all of them combined to even match what can be learned from his abilities; an entire Avengers team combined might be able to teach a fraction of what Taskmaster can in terms of combat training. Because Taskmaster can emulate the fighting styles of an entire Avengers team, and then some. How is that not an extremely useful resource?

EDIT: Especially from a resources standpoint. Instead of bringing in superheroes from all over the world who have very busy schedules as it is to train these kids, Taskmaster can stand in for pretty much any metahuman they need. "Taskmaster, we think Doom's up to something. Go over these videos from previous battles with the Fantastic Four, then I want these kids prepped in case they have to fight Doom." vs. "We think Doom's up to something. When can the Fantastic Four schedule a visit to talk to the kids? How much time can they spare?" This way, superheroes can maintain their busy schedules without having to fit Camp Hammond into them. Heroes can just worry about being heroes and the community service guy can do the training job.

XPac

01-07-2008, 09:16 AM

You're right; there are plenty of real heroes that can teach things that he can. And it would take all of them combined to even match what can be learned from his abilities; an entire Avengers team combined might be able to teach a fraction of what Taskmaster can in terms of combat training. Because Taskmaster can emulate the fighting styles of an entire Avengers team, and then some. How is that not an extremely useful resource?

It is extremely useful... I don't deny that. What I am saying is that there's a risk and a flat out cost to using evil villains in this capacity.

Especially if we're dealing with young impressionable newbies... the teachers that surround these kids could have a huge impact on the type of heroes these kinds will end up becoming. The fact that Gyrich and a pill popping Hank Pym are in charge of the place don't exactly help matters either... these aren't the type of people you want molding the next generation of heroes.

But if you think Marvel is placing villains in these sort of roles to show what wonderful resources they are, we can agree to disagree. To me, these are all just mistakes waiting to blow up in everyone's faces.

DeadXMan

01-07-2008, 10:50 AM

I never seen tasky as Villain.
yes he may train villains but they are willing to pay more.

yes he has been hired to kill people, but so has outlaw, Wolverine, X-23, Deadpool and Alex.
yet we accept them as good guys.

XPac

01-07-2008, 11:06 AM

bulbasteve

01-07-2008, 12:30 PM

TotalWorldDomination

01-07-2008, 12:42 PM

I'd like to see that list! :p

It started with "The Sky is Blue" and ended with "The Grass is Green". ;)

If MR was still around I'm sure "OMD Stinks" would be on it... but alas. :(

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 01:04 PM

A topic about the actual book...shocking!

I don't see what is so bad about Tasky, the ONLY reason he became a villian is for the cash. It's a good thing that nowadays young superpeople have another choice than becoming a villain if they just want to get rich.

Taskmaster is what they call a "necessary evil." that said there is some precendent for him doing government work. he's definately qualified for the position and seems to be on a nano-chain; like the Thunderbolts. of course, the decision to hire him was Gyrich's. by default, that makes this a villainous move.

No, both her legs are cut off at the knees.

i couldn't tell that from the first read through. it's obvious, now. i wonder how she lost her legs, where she's from, and how she met Curt Connors.

Well we've gone over this before, no sense re-hashing it. But I still think that having a supervillain train the kids is only going to show them that the only difference between right and wrong in the mu is timing. You can spend all your life looting and pillaging but as long as your useful to the government you can get away with it all. And the pain of your victims is either ignored or laughed at.

Mark_S

some of them have already learned this lesson. i can't wait to see the actual training. i hope Eric does well.

Community service may sound nice in theory, but that's an awefully high price tag considering there are plenty of real heroes out there can can teach the heroes the things guys like Taskmaster can.

if Captain America hadn't been such a brat, he could have been training this kids. otherwise, there aren't too many heroes with Taskmaster's skillset and experience training physical combatants. he's perfect for this job. morality might get in the way of the training. he won't go easy on these kids and will emphasize discipline and technique.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 01:13 PM

Did any of them ever try to kill Cassie's father? What message does that send to Cassie and the others?

Mark_S

the message is, "you'd better not screw up. this isn't a school for mutants. this is a battleground."

If anyone is under a bad star in her life it is Cassie. I wouldn't be surprised that after a little of the Camp Hammond style live firefight training-and with the Taskmaster as an example of doing everything wrong and still coming out on top-if Cassie would try suicide.

i blame Bendis

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 01:19 PM

I should be focusing on KIA and the Tactigon. I should be excited about the background info about the birth of the Initiative. I should be worried about the future of the Initiative following KIA's rampage, and I should be hopeful about the future of Hardball, Komodo, Cloud 9, the Scarlet Spiders, etc. etc.

But I'm not. Instead, all I can think is "616 Geldoff!!!"

i'm calling it now. Geldoff was sent there by Dr. Doom.

I don't know, Taskmaster? Then again given the character of the people running things it makes sense.
Man it is great to be a supervillain in the mu, you can do every crime you can think of and they hand you a great job doing what you love to do. And just so you can really have fun one of your students is the daughter of the man you tried to kill a few times. I wonder how long it will be before Taskmaster slips something into Cassie's drink and rapes her?

the new Ant-Man would be a more likely suspect (though neither would be interested in Cassie). far as i know, Taskmaster can have any woman he wants anyways. why, given his personality, would he want to assume the risk of inappropriate behavior? that would be some serious trouble he'd be in (listen up Vance).

And he's got so many other kids to choose from, to single out who will make a good part of a supervillain squad, who HYDRA or AIM would pay good money to have on thier team.

yeah, isn't it awesome?! i can't wait for him to put Ant-Man, Geldoff, and Melee onto his split-second squad.

He can tell them who would be the best ones to have, who is the most greedy and corruptible and who knows how many government databases he now has access too.

or that Hydra recruiter could tell them. Taskmaster doesn't even have to be part of the equation. they already own Hardball.

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 01:32 PM

the message is, "you'd better not screw up. this isn't a school for mutants. this is a battleground."

The message is also "being a bad guy is the best way to be." I mean Gyrich hired this guy, Gyrich who probably considered the old KGB to be a model agency. And for all the people he's hurt the Taskmaster is simply laughing his way through this. And as to the sexual side how about the way he looked at the girl who knows all forms of martial arts? In the first few pages he took out Hank and smiled about it and Gyrich let him do it. If there are any real limits on his actions I doubt that they are set very low.

But placing him in charge of their training Gyrich has basically told the kids that any actions are forgiveable by the US government so long as they serve the US government. Kill some one? Ok as long as you serve us later. At this rate the Initiative is going to turn out combat machines with the morals and conscience beaten out of them either directly or through example. I believe that it is not a school for mutants, its a school for supervillains.

Mark_S

bulbasteve

01-07-2008, 01:33 PM

Speaking of, who the hell IS Melee?

StoneGold

01-07-2008, 01:38 PM

I mean Gyrich hired this guy,

If by hired you mean forcibly recruited and infected with nanites, sure.

That said, you're totally making crap up about the sexual habits of Taskmaster. You never even see him look at Melee. The panel doesn't show his face, just the back of his head. He's interested in her because she has the same powers as he does, apparently.

Being a bad guy in one thing doesn't make you a bad guy in other things.Training people to be henchmen doesn't make you a rapist.

StoneGold

01-07-2008, 01:41 PM

Speaking of, who the hell IS Melee?

Random guess, Tasky's unknown bastard daughter.

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 01:41 PM

XPac

01-07-2008, 01:43 PM

if Captain America hadn't been such a brat, he could have been training this kids. otherwise, there aren't too many heroes with Taskmaster's skillset and experience training physical combatants. he's perfect for this job. morality might get in the way of the training. he won't go easy on these kids and will emphasize discipline and technique.

Well, that's the problem. They clearly DO think morality gets in the way of training people to become heroes... why else would they place someone like Gyrich in charge.

Course, this is also part of the reason 99% of the time everything government related in comics ends up corrupted and ultimately a failure.

XPac

01-07-2008, 01:46 PM

Yeah, so far the only things he's really done is stop Cassie, Eric, and Hank from killing each other all over the 6 o'clock news (and throw in a bonus lesson for the recruits about neutralizing giant enemies) and take a look over the kids, noticeably and vocally working through his head who will be better at what. I see no cause for alarm here.

If this was the very first time I'd ever seen the Taskmaster, I would agree. But the problem is thats not all we've seen the character ever do. Not by a long hell.

When Tony first made his CW TBolts, Taskmaster lasted one lousy mission before going beyond acceptable parameters and getting marched back into the negative zone.

That said, I do think Taskmaster is a much better choice than Venom, Bullseye, or Green Goblin.... I'll give him that much.

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 01:48 PM

If this was the very first time I'd ever seen the Taskmaster, I would agree. But the problem is thats not all we've seen the character ever do. Not by a long hell.

When Tony first made his CW TBolts, Taskmaster lasted one lousy mission before going beyond acceptable parameters and getting marched back into the negative zone.

That said, I do think Taskmaster is a much better choice than Venom, Bullseye, or Green Goblin.... I'll give him that much.

That's why he's not on missions. He's just training students. He's teaching skills, discipline, and experience. It's up to the kids to provide their own moral centers; if they need Taskmaster to teach them morality, they're already gone as it is.

StoneGold

01-07-2008, 01:49 PM

Also, for the record, this latest recruiting class isn't kids. Or at least, Ant-Man, Crusader, Dragon Lord, Geiger and Diamondback are definitely not. Red 9 was 16 over 20 years ago, so he's probably aged at least the two years. Geldoff and Melee are new characters, so who knows on that one.

So wait, how come everyone is complaining about Tasky, but not Diamondback for killing the Porcupine?

XPac

01-07-2008, 01:55 PM

That's why he's not on missions. He's just training students. He's teaching skills, discipline, and experience. It's up to the kids to provide their own moral centers; if they need Taskmaster to teach them morality, they're already gone as it is.

Again, ignoring the potential downside of them losing control of him... you don't think it makes more sense to have future heroes trained by people that actually are heroes?

Even if it's not the actual topic he teachers, I do think there's value is providing good role models for these people. I wouldn't want an unreformed murderer teaching my kids to read in school, even if I thought the murderer's reading skills were up to the job.

This is why people look upon the Initiative and government as corrupt. This is why the heroes have trouble trusting it. If they would eliminate the clones and the super villains from the equation entirely, maybe more people would actually be willing to give the government and the Initiative more the benefit of the doubt.

XPac

01-07-2008, 01:59 PM

So wait, how come everyone is complaining about Tasky, but not Diamondback for killing the Porcupine?

Didn't Porcupine just trip and kill himself by landing on one of his own quils?

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 02:00 PM

Again, ignoring the potential downside of them losing control of him... you don't think it makes more sense to have future heroes trained by people that actually are heroes?

Even if it's not the actual topic he teachers, I do think there's value is providing good role models for these people. I wouldn't want an unreformed murderer teaching my kids to read in school, even if I thought the murderer's reading skills were up to the job.

This is why people look upon the Initiative and government as corrupt. This is why the heroes have trouble trusting it. If they would eliminate the clones and the super villains from the equation entirely, maybe more people would actually be willing to give the government and the Initiative more the benefit of the doubt.

I think with a sorely understaffed Initiative so low on its numbers that they need to resort to putting supervillains on a leash and sending them to Colorado, or making super-celebrities in California, they simply don't have the superheroes to spare. Tony Stark cannot be everywhere at once. Neither can Reed Richards or Carol Danvers. And I would much rather have them handling whatever next big threat comes along; they already are providing role models. That doesn't mean they have to be with every recruit 24/7 and never have time to do the work that makes them INTO role models in the first place. There just isn't enough superheroes to go around.

The kids aren't at Camp Hammond to learn proper dining etiquette. They're there to learn how to fight, win, and survive on the battlefield, without destroying everything and killing everyone in the process. Would it be better if they could learn from an entire group of superheroes? Sure. But there just aren't enough to go around; as it is, Taskmaster alone can do what an entire group of superheroes can, just as well or better than they could for the job in question. Considering how emphatically understaffed the Initiative is, I see no reason not to let him.

XPac

01-07-2008, 02:05 PM

The kids aren't at Camp Hammond to learn proper dining etiquette. They're there to learn how to fight, win, and survive on the battlefield, without destroying everything and killing everyone in the process.

In other words, they're learning to NOT be like the TBolts.

Still, I thought part of the point was to teach them to be heroes. But given that Gyrich is in charge, that is rather naive of me now that I think about it.

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 02:06 PM

If by hired you mean forcibly recruited and infected with nanites, sure.

And he is getting no money at all from this? Ok, then there is another reason he'll go rogue as soon as he can.

That said, you're totally making crap up about the sexual habits of Taskmaster. You never even see him look at Melee. The panel doesn't show his face, just the back of his head. He's interested in her because she has the same powers as he does, apparently.

Being a bad guy in one thing doesn't make you a bad guy in other things.Training people to be henchmen doesn't make you a rapist.

No, but having power and no repsonsibility leads to temptation and this guy has no borders on what he does when he gets power. I'm a little surprised that many here seem to hold him in high reguard. His abilities allowed him to lead a very selfish life and that is what he has led. And while we don't see his face since he is wearing the mask we do see her face, and that was not a fun look. And the fact that he is wearing that mask allows him to stare at any of them exactly how he pleases without worrying.

The kids at the Initiative have been placed in a situation where the entire idea is to terrorize them, humiliate them and break them, the theory being that if they break at Camp Hammond they won't break out in the field. They have no rights, they have no recourse they have no one who they can look at think "He'll help me." So if/when Taskmaster does something to any of them they are stuck. He can get away with it. And if he can get away with it odds are someone with the Taskmaster's outlook on life will do it.

I don't want it to happen, I don't expect marvel willl let it happen, their realism has limits I guess. But in a setting such as Camp Hammond I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.

Mark_S

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 02:09 PM

The kids aren't at Camp Hammond to learn proper dining etiquette. They're there to learn how to fight, win, and survive on the battlefield, without destroying everything and killing everyone in the process. Would it be better if they could learn from an entire group of superheroes? Sure. But there just aren't enough to go around; as it is, Taskmaster alone can do what an entire group of superheroes can, just as well or better than they could for the job in question. Considering how emphatically understaffed the Initiative is, I see no reason not to let him.

You make a good point but when has Taskmaster ever been shown to care about collateral damage to people or property? Or life?

Mark_S

Deadpooligan

01-07-2008, 02:15 PM

No, but having power and no repsonsibility leads to temptation and this guy has no borders on what he does when he gets power. I'm a little surprised that many here seem to hold him in high reguard. His abilities allowed him to lead a very selfish life and that is what he has led. And while we don't see his face since he is wearing the mask we do see her face, and that was not a fun look. And the fact that he is wearing that mask allows him to stare at any of them exactly how he pleases without worrying.

Mark_S

He's looking at her the same way he would look at Bruce Lee, the Cat, Iron Fist, or anybody else of value. Any martial artist he encounters, he's bound to study intently.

And now that he has a student who, assumably knows every martial art ever, he's watching her strictly for bettering his own knowledge.

You make a good point but when has Taskmaster ever been shown to care about collateral damage to people or property? Or life?

Mark_S

When he's paid to care. Or when it involves Sandi Brandenberg.

XPac

01-07-2008, 02:15 PM

You make a good point but when has Taskmaster ever been shown to care about collateral damage to people or property? Or life?

Mark_S

I kind of assumed that was a big part of why he was kicked off Starks' first CW TBolt team.

But then again, considering Bullseye, Venom and Green Goblin made the cut perhaps not caring about collateral damage, people, property, and life are in fact prerequisites.

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 02:17 PM

The kids at the Initiative have been placed in a situation where the entire idea is to terrorize them, humiliate them and break them, the theory being that if they break at Camp Hammond they won't break out in the field. They have no rights, they have no recourse they have no one who they can look at think "He'll help me." So if/when Taskmaster does something to any of them they are stuck. He can get away with it. And if he can get away with it odds are someone with the Taskmaster's outlook on life will do it.

The idea isn't that if they break at Camp Hammond they won't break in the field. Quite the opposite; the idea is that if they can't handle Camp Hammond, they can't handle the field. Slapstick's a good example of this. If he can snap just at hearing the words "New Warriors" tossed around in a derogatory fashion, then how could he possibly handle a Galactus-level event without completely breaking? They push hard because they have to; in the field, their enemies will push a lot harder. If they can't handle this, they certainly can't handle Doom.

Dr. Chaos

01-07-2008, 02:19 PM

But then again, considering Bullseye, Venom and Green Goblin made the cut perhaps not caring about collateral damage, people, property, and life are in fact prerequisites.
Eating people is definitely a prerequisite as Gargan will reluctantly tell you.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 02:22 PM

Again, ignoring the potential downside of them losing control of him... you don't think it makes more sense to have future heroes trained by people that actually are heroes?

i don't see why it matters at the basic training stage. all Taskmaster is doing is accessing their field-readiness; making sure that they know how to use their powers effectively. if they prove to be rotten apples, they'll get bounced/depowered. you can't make someone a good person.

This is why people look upon the Initiative and government as corrupt. This is why the heroes have trouble trusting it. If they would eliminate the clones and the super villains from the equation entirely, maybe more people would actually be willing to give the government and the Initiative more the benefit of the doubt.

that would make for lame stories.

Also, for the record, this latest recruiting class isn't kids. Or at least, Ant-Man, Crusader, Dragon Lord, Geiger and Diamondback are definitely not. Red 9 was 16 over 20 years ago, so he's probably aged at least the two years. Geldoff and Melee are new characters, so who knows on that one.

Geldoff is Ultimate Spider-man's age in the Ultimate Universe. that doesn't say much but i'd guess that he's still around high school senior/college freshman age. Red Nine and Melee look to be the youngest (just guessing) of the new recruits. i wonder which Diamondback this is; hopefully the female original.

So wait, how come everyone is complaining about Tasky, but not Diamondback for killing the Porcupine?

racists!

Random guess, Tasky's unknown bastard daughter.

that would be awesome. i love the introduction of new characters. i hope this girl grows up to kick Echo's poseur-@$$.

The message is also "being a bad guy is the best way to be."

only if you're a bad guy playing by the rules of registration. far as i know, he hasn't taught any of them the finer points of robbing banks.

And for all the people he's hurt the Taskmaster is simply laughing his way through this. And as to the sexual side how about the way he looked at the girl who knows all forms of martial arts?

i think it's more likely that he's interested in learning all of the martial arts that Melee knows/wants someone to spar with. i don't see where sex came into play. you're trying to read his mind through a halloween mask.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 02:24 PM

Eating people is definitely a prerequisite as Gargan will reluctantly tell you.

they are only prerequisites if you want to live like a prisoner and have a nano-chain on at all times. i don't think that any of these kids are training to become Thunderbolts.

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 02:43 PM

The idea isn't that if they break at Camp Hammond they won't break in the field. Quite the opposite; the idea is that if they can't handle Camp Hammond, they can't handle the field. Slapstick's a good example of this. If he can snap just at hearing the words "New Warriors" tossed around in a derogatory fashion, then how could he possibly handle a Galactus-level event without completely breaking? They push hard because they have to; in the field, their enemies will push a lot harder. If they can't handle this, they certainly can't handle Doom.

I recall that Johny Storm had a shorter temper than many and he seemed to do ok against Doom. But Johny had the rest of the FF with him. But that is what I mean, the place is meant to break them. The entire training regiment seems to be designed to break them and do nothing but break them. And once they break the Taskmaster can make sure that other places are aware of them, places like HYDRA or AIM where standards may not be so high because supervillains don't really have to worry about loosing it during a robery or murder.

Mark_S

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 02:45 PM

i don't see why it matters at the basic training stage. all Taskmaster is doing is accessing their field-readiness; making sure that they know how to use their powers effectively. if they prove to be rotten apples, they'll get bounced/depowered. you can't make someone a good person.

No, but you can make someone worse.

Mark_S

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 02:54 PM

I recall that Johny Storm had a shorter temper than many and he seemed to do ok against Doom. But Johny had the rest of the FF with him.

yes, he had a support network to kick his butt when he engaged in grandstanding. otherwise, he'd still be burning down college campuses. that's what Camp Hammond's about; they serve as authority figures. before former-New Warrior Vance selfishly ran off he was serving as "guidance counselor."

But that is what I mean, the place is meant to break them. The entire training regiment seems to be designed to break them and do nothing but break them. And once they break the Taskmaster can make sure that other places are aware of them, places like HYDRA or AIM where standards may not be so high because supervillains don't really have to worry about loosing it during a robery or murder.

Mark_S

i don't see it. Gauntlet didn't kiss their butts but he wasn't making them feel worthless, either. he praised Hardball after a physical routine. he's teaching them to not be showoffs (ex. Armory); to not think of themselves as "an army of one." the people who were "broken" were former New Warriors. the NW-insults shouldn't have affected Komodo, Cloud-9, Hardball, Trauma, etc.

No, but you can make someone worse.

Mark_S

and those are the folks that should be weeded out. they aren't strong enough to be full-time superheroes. ex. the Greenwich Guardian

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 02:56 PM

i think it's more likely that he's interested in learning all of the martial arts that Melee knows/wants someone to spar with. i don't see where sex came into play. you're trying to read his mind through a halloween mask.

No, what I'm doing is extrapolating from what I know of the basic character of the Taskmaster and the man is a thief. But that is only because in the past there was no money to be had in rape. Now there is no money to be had period and that must frustrate him somewhat.

Also what I'm saying is that a situation like Camp Hamond is an invitation to abuse of power. You have Gyrich in charge and he doesn't care what the kids go through as long as he gets obedient government operatives. You have Hank who is about as effective as a blind man and you have a bunch of kids who are unsure of themselves, unsure of the environment, some of them forced to register out of fear, some of them potentially very dangerous and all of them under the thumb of a man with no moral or eithical guidelines beyond "I got mine." I can't see how an abuse of power won'thappen and one of the forms it might take is a sexual assault. It might also take the form of beatings in the guise of training, making an example of someone and having fun at the same time.

I guess the basic disagreement here though is that you seem to see the Taskmaster as a gentleman thief, a modern day Conan and while you might be right I see him as Black Beard. The question of couse is how does the writer see him?

Mark_S

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 03:04 PM

No, what I'm doing is extrapolating from what I know of the basic character of the Taskmaster and the man is a thief. But that is only because in the past there was no money to be had in rape. Now there is no money to be had period and that must frustrate him somewhat.

Also what I'm saying is that a situation like Camp Hamond is an invitation to abuse of power. You have Gyrich in charge and he doesn't care what the kids go through as long as he gets obedient government operatives. You have Hank who is about as effective as a blind man and you have a bunch of kids who are unsure of themselves, unsure of the environment, some of them forced to register out of fear, some of them potentially very dangerous and all of them under the thumb of a man with no moral or eithical guidelines beyond "I got mine." I can't see how an abuse of power won'thappen and one of the forms it might take is a sexual assault. It might also take the form of beatings in the guise of training, making an example of someone and having fun at the same time.

I guess the basic disagreement here though is that you seem to see the Taskmaster as a gentleman thief, a modern day Conan and while you might be right I see him as Black Beard. The question of couse is how does the writer see him?

Mark_S

wow. you didn't read any of my posts then. Taskmaster's a mercenary being reigned in by a nanochain. but he's never been a rapist. in all of the time i've "known" him, i've only seen Taskmaster flirt with a woman once. well, technically, she flirted with him and he was smooth enough to keep her around. otherwise, my argument is that it's supposed to be a chaotic situation. that's why we have the Killed in Action storyline. the corruption is bringing things to a head, in time for Secret Invasion. you should allow the arc to complete itself before judging. Taskmaster may have been brought in to show you how much more qualified Gauntlet was.

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 03:26 PM

and those are the folks that should be weeded out. they aren't strong enough to be full-time superheroes. ex. the Greenwich Guardian

And what happens to them after that?

Mark_S

Dr. Chaos

01-07-2008, 03:28 PM

they are only prerequisites if you want to live like a prisoner and have a nano-chain on at all times. i don't think that any of these kids are training to become Thunderbolts.
I was joking, Mr. Serious. ;)

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 03:29 PM

wow. you didn't read any of my posts then. Taskmaster's a mercenary being reigned in by a nanochain. but he's never been a rapist. in all of the time i've "known" him, i've only seen Taskmaster flirt with a woman once. well, technically, she flirted with him and he was smooth enough to keep her around. otherwise, my argument is that it's supposed to be a chaotic situation. that's why we have the Killed in Action storyline. the corruption is bringing things to a head, in time for Secret Invasion. you should allow the arc to complete itself before judging. Taskmaster may have been brought in to show you how much more qualified Gauntlet was.

I know that it is supposed to be a chaotic situation. I expect it to crash and burn and hurt a lot of people in the process. But I submit that just because a character has not done something to date that doesn't mean he won't do something ever. Or that he hasn't done it before. This is marvel, character twist and retcons are what they live by these days.

Mark_S

Tobias Drake

01-07-2008, 03:32 PM

And what happens to them after that?

Mark_S

Judging by Armory, psychiatric treatment.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 03:32 PM

And what happens to them after that?

Mark_S

Taco Bell?

I was joking, Mr. Serious. ;)

that's my anti-hero name. don't wear it out. :D

Dr. Chaos

01-07-2008, 03:37 PM

Judging by Armory, psychiatric treatment.
Of course, becuase after all, you can't have the public belive them to be sane after you **** up and carelessly cause your recruits to kill each other.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 03:39 PM

Of course, becuase after all, you can't have the public belive them to be sane after you **** up and carelessly cause your recruits to kill each other.

weeeelllll....Armory did sort of come about her powers by jumping off a bridge.

StoneGold

01-07-2008, 04:39 PM

And he is getting no money at all from this? Ok, then there is another reason he'll go rogue as soon as he can.

No, but having power and no repsonsibility leads to temptation and this guy has no borders on what he does when he gets power. I'm a little surprised that many here seem to hold him in high reguard. His abilities allowed him to lead a very selfish life and that is what he has led. And while we don't see his face since he is wearing the mask we do see her face, and that was not a fun look. And the fact that he is wearing that mask allows him to stare at any of them exactly how he pleases without worrying.

The kids at the Initiative have been placed in a situation where the entire idea is to terrorize them, humiliate them and break them, the theory being that if they break at Camp Hammond they won't break out in the field. They have no rights, they have no recourse they have no one who they can look at think "He'll help me." So if/when Taskmaster does something to any of them they are stuck. He can get away with it. And if he can get away with it odds are someone with the Taskmaster's outlook on life will do it.

I don't want it to happen, I don't expect marvel willl let it happen, their realism has limits I guess. But in a setting such as Camp Hammond I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.

Mark_S

Man, everything comes down to rape to you, doesn't it? I'm starting to wonder about your own proclivities.

Well, no, I don't. I'm just kidding you. But this I am not kidding about: you tried to pull a sexual situation out of this panel.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/013.jpg

You officially know nothing about sex whatsoever.

thorionthei

01-07-2008, 04:42 PM

Dan/Gage, please make Eric Yellowjacket! It fits his personality much more. Seeing Pym as YJ just hurts and seems forced!

(oh no, is Marvel going to pull a YJ OMD?!)

Mark_S

01-07-2008, 04:46 PM

Man, everything comes down to rape to you, doesn't it? I'm starting to wonder about your own proclivities.

Well, no, I don't. I'm just kidding you. But this I am not kidding about: you tried to pull a sexual situation out of this panel.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/013.jpg

You officially know nothing about sex whatsoever.

Maybe you are right. At any rate she doesn't look especially happy to be the one singled out.

Mark_S

Deadpooligan

01-07-2008, 04:49 PM

I used to alway "hear" Taskmaster's voice as kind of a grisled, chain-smoker kind of tone. Now I hear R. Lee Ermey. So friggin' cool.

Monty_Cristo

01-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Maybe you are right. At any rate she doesn't look especially happy to be the one singled out.

Mark_S

why would anyone be happy to be singled out during basic training? look at Geldoff's face. does he look happy? did Dragon Lord? the only one of them that wasn't unnerved by Taskmaster was wearing a face mask and had already been through basic training (the army). :)

I used to alway "hear" Taskmaster's voice as kind of a grisled, chain-smoker kind of tone. Now I hear R. Lee Ermey. So friggin' cool.

i know what you mean but, supposedly, he started out with a brooklyn accent. he dropped the accent so sound more professional; by the time the UDON series came around. i always used to sound like a texan to me. i don't know why. there are too many urban legends surrounding the character, as is. is that skull really his face or just a mask (for instance)?

[QUOTE=StoneGold;6114106]
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/013.jpg [QUOTE]

so, are we starting a betting pool? will Trauma and Melee hook up? i could see Terrence reading poetry to her in the graveyard.