Captain America #33 *Spoilers*

[jackolover]

Well, no surprise there. Bucky is the new Cap, alright, just like everyone guessed. But I was disappointed with how quickly the whole thing unfolded.

Bucky escapes Shield custody on the Helicarrier, and attacks Iron Man. But they talk, anf Bucky reads the letter from Cap to Tony, and agrees he should be Cap. WHAT? How do Tony and Bucky jump from - 'Keep Bucky safe/find a new Cap', to - 'Bucky is the new Cap'?

And who would trust that Tony Stark doesn't keep a subliminalword trigger for Bucky? Bucky is an idiot. He lets himself be taken over by the head of Shield and lets people mess with his mind. Why doesn't he just say, 'Brainwash me - I'm all yours?'

So, how does that impact the position of Captain America? Is Tony Stark going to tell the world this is Bucky Barnes, Caps old sidekick, come back from suspended animation? Or does Tony keep Caps identity secret? I had visions of how Bucky was going to become Cap, right when it was first muted to happen, and this isn't how I envisioned it. (I put Bucky in some superhuman fight, and Bucky made a typical Cap save that everyone in the groups of heroes recognised immediately. They all stood still and it was obvious that this was the new Cap). Now that Brubaker has basically anointed Bucky in the backrooms of power, that vital inspirational recognition will be hard to replicate.

[jpk]

I'm glad it's Bucky. Based on his relationship with Steve and his suppressed desire for redemption, he was the best choice of all the 'who could it be' possibilities floated in other threads.

I'll withhold judgment of how it was revealed until after I read the book. Can't wait until tonight after work when I can pick it up!

[XPac]

To me, this sucks.

Bucky's an assasin and borderline psycho. He's not Captain America. He may idolize Cap, but he doesn't in any way represent the things which made Steve Rogers Captain America.

Whatever. SHIELD now has a Captain America they can get behind... an assasin. He's the Captain America SHIELD and the US really wants anyways, so more power to them. Plus Tony gets to alleviate his guilt by playing dress up with Bucky, since Clint at least was man enough to not play along. But it's just not Captain America in my eyes.

[claimtosubclaim]

Clint at least was man enough to not play along. But it's just not Captain America in my eyes.

Which is ironic enough, since Clint is more fitting of a Cap than Bucky.

[claimtosubclaim]

So, how does that impact the position of Captain America? Is Tony Stark going to tell the world this is Bucky Barnes, Caps old sidekick, come back from suspended animation? Or does Tony keep Caps identity secret? I had visions of how Bucky was going to become Cap, right when it was first muted to happen, and this isn't how I envisioned it. (I put Bucky in some superhuman fight, and Bucky made a typical Cap save that everyone in the groups of heroes recognised immediately. They all stood still and it was obvious that this was the new Cap). Now that Brubaker has basically anointed Bucky in the backrooms of power, that vital inspirational recognition will be hard to replicate.

It may be better that the heroes are all weary of this new Captain America whose identity is unknown to them. It will make for some heartbreaking scenes when he gets scolded by others, much like the Fallen Son scene between Clint, Patriot & Hawkeye. Bucky will either have to start really embodying the role and earning their trust, or he will crash and burn with the Cap legacy.... which is interesting enough of a plotline to follow anyway.

[Brian M.]

This was a lot of fun. I disagree with the reviewer about how it went down. I think it's pretty good and I think Tony comes off as a pretty good guy trying to right some wrongs.

It's logical that Bucky is the new Cap. I can't wait to read #34. Top notch.

[CMBMOOL]

I have to admit, it's better to have someone closer to Cap be his replacement, like Bucky, than some he hardly knows little about, like Hawkeye. :(

To me this is just another step of Brubaker's plans for Bucky so I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride. :D

Because besides this title, She-Hulk, Incredible Hercules and post WWH titles, Amazing Spider-girl, and any other X-men title post MC, it feels like the only things that I will be buying from Marvel comics. :(

[TheDrizzt]

Bucky's an assasin and borderline psycho. He's not Captain America. He may idolize Cap, but he doesn't in any way represent the things which made Steve Rogers Captain America.
Gruenwald went down this line with SuperPatriot/USAgent/John Walker. At some point, Bucky will decide he's just not worthy of the Cap mantle, just in time for Steve Rogers to make his amazing return from the dead.

Everything old is new again. Everything new will be retconned away. That's the MU.

[Thursaiz]

I can see something unfolding; by bringing Bucky back and allowing him to infiltrate Steve Roger's life and gain the trust of the heroes, Skull has perhaps the greatest mole in the history of comics. Steve Rogers will come back in time to take Bucky down, just when the Skull's plan seems to be coming to pass.

Also, I am wondering who the Skull's new 'body' is. What if the Skull becomes Steve Rogers, and makes an appearance as Cap before Bucky is able to take the mantle?

[chrismileslord]

To me, this sucks.

Bucky's an assasin and borderline psycho. He's not Captain America. He may idolize Cap, but he doesn't in any way represent the things which made Steve Rogers Captain America.

Whatever. SHIELD now has a Captain America they can get behind... an assasin. He's the Captain America SHIELD and the US really wants anyways, so more power to them. Plus Tony gets to alleviate his guilt by playing dress up with Bucky, since Clint at least was man enough to not play along. But it's just not Captain America in my eyes.

I see what your saying, but maybe this is one of those "turning points" for characters..Where they have to reform or give up suit. While I really like Winter Soldier, I am at least keeping hope that this creative team can pull this off well, at least until Steve returns.

[jonwes]

I can see something unfolding; by bringing Bucky back and allowing him to infiltrate Steve Roger's life and gain the trust of the heroes, Skull has perhaps the greatest mole in the history of comics. Steve Rogers will come back in time to take Bucky down, just when the Skull's plan seems to be coming to pass.

Also, I am wondering who the Skull's new 'body' is. What if the Skull becomes Steve Rogers, and makes an appearance as Cap before Bucky is able to take the mantle?

You mean the body Skull was talking about in the beginning? That was the fake Lukin body they planted in the wreckage.

As for this issue, Bucky being Cap was no surprise. That being said, I would have been dissapointed otherwise. This is such a perfect coming together of all the threads in the book since #1. I thought the way it was done here was great. Everyone's motivations were pitch perfect, and it really only needed to be one issue. I think it's time for some momentum.

As for the person saying this was Shield's Cap, I'd suggest reading the comic! Barnes makes it clear to Tony that he won't answer to Shield or Tony. Tony is sincere in his desire to do right by Cap and his regret over Civil War. He won't put a safe word for Bucky. He's being sincere. So unless JMS takes over writing Cap (gah!) then Tony will keep his word and not suddenly turn into a moustache-twirling villain.

This was a great issue, and leaves me excited about the future. The whole point of the story is whether Bucky WILL make a good Cap. There are definite problems with it. Black Widow voices these concerns. It'll be fun to see where it goes. I wish people would stop second guessing the writers long enough to enjoy the ride.

[agirlyman]

[B]I'm all for Bucky being Cap for a bit, but I'd like to see some friction between him and Clint after Buck dons the Red White and blue, eventually have Barton becoming Captain America, until Steve comes back of course.

I actually don't think anybody except "Steve Rogers" should be called Captain America, maybe go by "The Captain", or some such crap.
[B]

[tavella]

I think that the thing I may dislike about this most is that "Captain America" is no longer an independent agent or Iron Man's peer or equal -- it's just a title Tony Stark rightfully dispenses to a subordinate, the holder only keeping it as long as Stark approves of their actions. He's just another Initiative peon.

And, of course, we are told that it's "what Steve wanted", which is the extra special crap topping. The death in #25 was incredibly ugly -- spat upon, dragged in chains, his greatest enemy completely triumphing over him -- but it was compelling and had integrity as a story, and was vastly more believable than the ludicrous Fallen Son #5. (Traitors don't get state funerals. It just doesn't happen.)

And it at least allowed the character to keep the tiny dignity of believing in his own cause. Endless hammering everywhere else in the MU about how he was totally wrong and Reed and Tony know what's best for everyone, sure, but at least one scrap of dignity left. And now that's gone. He secretly believed that Tony knew best, after all. Unless you think that "make sure to take my symbols and use them in this cause I hate!" makes any sense for a sane person.

[agirlyman]

I think that the thing I may dislike about this most is that "Captain America" is no longer an independent agent or Iron Man's peer or equal -- it's just a title Tony Stark rightfully dispenses to a subordinate, the holder only keeping it as long as Stark approves of their actions. He's just another Initiative peon.

And, of course, we are told that it's "what Steve wanted", which is the extra special crap topping. The death in #25 was incredibly ugly -- spat upon, dragged in chains, his greatest enemy completely triumphing over him -- but it was compelling and had integrity as a story, and was vastly more believable than the ludicrous Fallen Son #5. (Traitors don't get state funerals. It just doesn't happen.)

And it at least allowed the character to keep the tiny dignity of believing in his own cause. Endless hammering everywhere else in the MU about how he was totally wrong and Reed and Tony know what's best for everyone, sure, but at least one scrap of dignity left. And now that's gone. He secretly believed that Tony knew best, after all. Unless you think that "make sure to take my symbols and use them in this cause I hate!" makes any sense for a sane person.

After reading that quote, all I wanna do is kick "Robert Downy Jr's arse!

P.S. Really now, if "Tony Stark" was assassinated, would he even get a "Tee Shirt"?

[jonwes]

I think that the thing I may dislike about this most is that "Captain America" is no longer an independent agent or Iron Man's peer or equal -- it's just a title Tony Stark rightfully dispenses to a subordinate, the holder only keeping it as long as Stark approves of their actions. He's just another Initiative peon.

He IS an independent agent. It's something that Barnes insisted on. I don't get where people are getting the idea he'll be some SHIELD lackey after reading this issue.

[tavella]

He IS an independent agent. It's something that Barnes insisted on. I don't get where people are getting the idea he'll be some SHIELD lackey after reading this issue.

Except he's not; he's wearing a Stark-issued uniform, has the title only because Stark chose to give it to him, and if he does something that Stark disapproves of sufficiently, Stark will pick someone else. Just because he's not calling in for daily orders doesn't change the core fact: Captain America is just a title that Tony Stark issues, not any equal of his.

[DaeJi]

I'm not impressed. I was kinda hoping Falcon would take over. He seems a much better choice than Bucky.

[jonwes]

Except he's not; he's wearing a Stark-issued uniform, has the title only because Stark chose to give it to him, and if he does something that Stark disapproves of sufficiently, Stark will pick someone else. Just because he's not calling in for daily orders doesn't change the core fact: Captain America is just a title that Tony Stark issues, not any equal of his.

But Stark gave it to him based on Steve's wishes. Doesn't that count for something?

[Camron Amaya]

Yea they were Cap's wishes in his letter....plus maybe it won't go down as clearly and smoothly as it seems right now. Tony underestimated Bucky in the fight completly. Anyways good issue, good art as always.

[XPac]

But Stark gave it to him based on Steve's wishes. Doesn't that count for something?

It counts for something... though honestly I still don't think it's right.

The fact is, Steve Rogers was the last person to know just how highly regarded Steve Rogers really was as a man.

He stands for something entirely different than what an assassin like Bucky brings to the table. I'm not saying Winder Soldier in his own way couldn't be a good hero... he just can't be a good Captain America. It's not completely his fault... that's a nearly impossible bar to meet. But a freaking assasin is just miles off the mark.

As others have mentioned, this sort of thing has been done before. And the results are predictable.

If Stark and SHIELD want a pet assasin that looks good for the press when he needs to, he's as good a candidate as any. But that just doesn't make him Captain America.

[CMBMOOL]

As for the person saying this was Shield's Cap, I'd suggest reading the comic! Barnes makes it clear to Tony that he won't answer to Shield or Tony. Tony is sincere in his desire to do right by Cap and his regret over Civil War. He won't put a safe word for Bucky. He's being sincere. So unless JMS takes over writing Cap (gah!) then Tony will keep his word and not suddenly turn into a moustache-twirling villain.

This was a great issue, and leaves me excited about the future. The whole point of the story is whether Bucky WILL make a good Cap. There are definite problems with it. Black Widow voices these concerns. It'll be fun to see where it goes. I wish people would stop second guessing the writers long enough to enjoy the ride.

I agree out of all of the fallout of Civil War that Iron man has suffered because of the actions that he took during the event, I could see this action and the supporting of Aunt May's hospital fee, as baby steps to his redemption and regaining the trust of his heroic peers. :D

[Omega Alpha]

He IS an independent agent. It's something that Barnes insisted on. I don't get where people are getting the idea he'll be some SHIELD lackey after reading this issue.

Because if they admitted he isn't an independent agent, then they wouldn't have reason to whine.

Anyway, while not as great as the previous ones, it was still a pretty good issue. It was obvious that Bucky would be the new Cap. America, and he's the ideal choice, both because he's more adequate and was who Steve Rogers wanted and because the story possibilities are almost endless. Brubaker is doing a great job and the book seemingly will get even better, I can't wait for next issue.

[bulbasteve]

I'm just happy Bru took potshots at Tony's frequent EMP weakness and general eeeeeevilness. :)

[Expletive Deleted]

It was obvious that Bucky would be the new Cap. America, and he's the ideal choice, both because he's more adequate and was who Steve Rogers wanted and because the story possibilities are almost endless.Which is why I still think it's not a sure thing.

This issue put Bucky into position to be the new Cap, but it also advanced the Red Skull's candidacy. He's abandoned the Lukin identity and he's talking with Zola about a new body . . .

One of 'em's a red herring. I don't feel confident predicting which one, though.

[Post-It]

I'm not impressed. I was kinda hoping Falcon would take over. He seems a much better choice than Bucky.

Same here, but I figured that once Rogers was killed Bru would make Bucky the new Cap. But I still hoped i was wrong and Falcon would take up the mantle.

[Dr. Chaos]

Bucky America? Finally, a take no **** Captain America for my generation.

God yes.

[jackolover]

I see what your saying, but maybe this is one of those "turning points" for characters..Where they have to reform or give up suit. While I really like Winter Soldier, I am at least keeping hope that this creative team can pull this off well, at least until Steve returns.

Bucky jumped at this far too quickly. Where was the introspection, the doubt, the will-I-be-good-enough? Tony makes one statement and Bucky is all - 'I'm in'. Bucky didn't even want to catch up on old times with Cap. Surely that was doubt about himself. And now, Bucky thinks he can carry off the role of his partner, who he hasn't seen for 40 years, and because Bucky was an assasin, isn't he going to have issues about when to kill and when not to kill?

The only saving grace for all this is that one time in CW-Winter Soldier, when Bucky met the Young Avengers and he led them like a true leader. The respect he was shown by those kids was kind of surprising, yet Bucky did work those kids like a professional. Bucky did show some potential in that setting.

So, is this going to be a Captain America with a bionic arm, or, a shield weilding Captain America? I'm guessing Bucky can't use Caps shield, and doesn't carry it around, because it's too much of a symbol, and, he doesn't know how to use it, like Clint Barton. Also, I don't think Bucky will be an up front style of Cap. He will be a blacl ops Cap, and do his stuff secretly.

[Omega the Unknown]

I would like to know what was in the rest of the letter that we couldnt read.

if it IS steve saying he wants bucky to be the new cap, he must have written something pretty convincing, for both buck and tony to agree to it.

or it isnt buck he is talking about at all, possible since we cannot read the whole letter.

[jonwes]

I'm just happy Bru took potshots at Tony's frequent EMP weakness and general eeeeeevilness. :)

That was pretty awesome. I loved the bit about the EMP. Writers really need to up the ante and get more creative when taking out tech. It's either EMP or some nanotech these days.

Which is why I still think it's not a sure thing.

This issue put Bucky into position to be the new Cap, but it also advanced the Red Skull's candidacy. He's abandoned the Lukin identity and he's talking with Zola about a new body . . .

One of 'em's a red herring. I don't feel confident predicting which one, though.


I said it in this same thread and I'll say it again... I still think the body they were talking about was the fake Lukin body. Could be wrong though...

[mindcrime]

well, its plain to see that alot of people dont like this choise, but i do. im more than willing to give bucky a shot at this. it turned just like i predicted months ago: tony would show him the letter & that would be the turning point. i must say, i really like the way bru writes tony. i wish he would write iron man someday. & i DO NOT think tony will try to control him in any way. i think he respected steve to much to do that, & if steve didnt trust tony, he wouldnt have botherd with the letter. good read, & im looking forward to seeing how bucky will do wearing the flag.

[XPac]

well, its plain to see that alot of people dont like this choise, but i do. im more than willing to give bucky a shot at this. it turned just like i predicted months ago: tony would show him the letter & that would be the turning point. i must say, i really like the way bru writes tony. i wish he would write iron man someday. & i DO NOT think tony will try to control him in any way. i think he respected steve to much to do that, & if steve didnt trust tony, he wouldnt have botherd with the letter. good read, & im looking forward to seeing how bucky will do wearing the flag.

One could argue that his respect for Steve would make him MORE controlling of Bucky though.

If Tony indeed respects Caps legacy, he might want to ensure that an freaking assasin won't tarnish it by acting like an assasin. That I suppose is the potential downside of making an assassin the new Captain America.

[BrikHed21]

Call me crazy but I think somehow the Skull is now inside of Bucky. The body in the crash was real and somehow Skull is the new Captain America. It plays right into the cover of the next issue and is one of those "never saw that coming moments".

[TotalWorldDomination]

One could argue that his respect for Steve would make him MORE controlling of Bucky though.

If Tony indeed respects Caps legacy, he might want to ensure that an freaking assasin won't tarnish it by acting like an assasin. That I suppose is the potential downside of making an assassin the new Captain America.

To be fair, he was brainwashed into being an assassin for the USSR. Before that he was just a solider. We don't blame Sharon for murdering cap when she was brainwashed do we?

[XPac]

To be fair, he was brainwashed into being an assassin for the USSR. Before that he was just a solider. We don't blame Sharon for murdering cap when she was brainwashed do we?

From day one, Brubaker retconned Bucky to be a freaking covert teenage assassin that would do the things Captain America would NOT do. All the brainwashing did was get him to do it for the other team.

Now again, I'm not saying that necessarily makes him a bad person or even a bad hero... just a bad Captain America. A higher standard needs to be in place there.

[mikekerr3]

One could argue that his respect for Steve would make him MORE controlling of Bucky though.

If Tony indeed respects Caps legacy, he might want to ensure that an freaking assasin won't tarnish it by acting like an assasin. That I suppose is the potential downside of making an assassin the new Captain America.

Tony should have no trouble with assassins he uses them himself.

[TotalWorldDomination]

From day one, Brubaker retconned Bucky to be a freaking covert teenage assassin that would do the things Captain America would NOT do. All the brainwashing did was get him to do it for the other team.

Now again, I'm not saying that necessarily makes him a bad person or even a bad hero... just a bad Captain America. A higher standard needs to be in place there.

Ah, Understood. I happen to like Bucky as the new Cap, but then again I'm not shocked that we're disagreeing on something related to Civil War fallout. ;)

[mindcrime]

while i dont think tony will try to control bucky, it would be stupid not to keep a close eye on him. at least until bucky shows him that he can handle it. i dont think buck will just go all assassin either. i think he will do his best to live up to steves legacy.

[TotalWorldDomination]

while i dont think tony will try to control bucky, it would be stupid not to keep a close eye on him. at least until bucky shows him that he can handle it.

He should keep an eye on him longer then that. He took his eye off of the last one and we know what happened to him... :D

[XPac]

while i dont think tony will try to control bucky, it would be stupid not to keep a close eye on him. at least until bucky shows him that he can handle it. i dont think buck will just go all assassin either. i think he will do his best to live up to steves legacy.

Honestly, I think Tony is a control freak and sooner or later he'll try using Bucky. Captain America is a powerful symbol for both the public and the superhero community.

But we'll see.

[Dr. Chaos]

So, is Bucky still going to be unregistered while he's working as an independent hero?

So far I like what Bucky's going for, I'd eventually like to see him join the New Avengers but I'm starting to wonder how feasible that is at this point.

Thats obviously the team where his heart would be but he's even more of a loner than Wolverine (which I guess might not be saying much at all considering he's like on eight teams).

[XPac]

So, is Bucky still going to be unregistered while he's working as an independent hero?

So far I like what Bucky's going for, I'd eventually like to see him join the New Avengers but I'm starting to wonder how feasible that is at this point.

Thats obviously the team where his heart would be but he's even more of a loner than Wolverine (which I guess might not be saying much at all considering he's like on eight teams).

I would assume Tony would force him to register. That way the Initiative can have their own Captain America. I think in Fallen Son it was flat out stated it's what the government wanted.

[Dr. Chaos]

Not surprising considering Rogers' was the one they originally wanted to put a fake smile on for them.

[Trey]

I would assume Tony would force him to register. That way the Initiative can have their own Captain America. I think in Fallen Son it was flat out stated it's what the government wanted.


What's the difference if he's registered or not?

He won't work for the government directly, he has no family that we know of yet. Heck IM can register him, whether he agrees to, or not. He can also implant nanites in him or assign GPS trackers.

These are all interesting developments. So wasn't this the isssue Marvel said would rival #25? We don't even get Cap Buck in uniform yet.

ALso, will they try to make him a super-soldier? All he has is the cyber arm, the rest is just a normal human, right? Highly trained, but still normal.

[XPac]

What's the difference if he's registered or not?

He won't work for the government directly, he has no family that we know of yet. Heck IM can register him, whether he agrees to, or not. He can also implant nanites in him or assign GPS trackers.

These are all interesting developments. So wasn't this the isssue Marvel said would rival #25? We don't even get Cap Buck in uniform yet.

ALso, will they try to make him a super-soldier? All he has is the cyber arm, the rest is just a normal human, right? Highly trained, but still normal.

The difference is that now the government can say Captain America is registered and supports the registration.

Again, Cap is a powerful symbol for both the hero community. The fact that he was AGAINST the registration was a HUGE black eye on the whole thing. of course, it's a different Cap and everyone knows it... that said, all they are interested in is the symbol. It's where politics and PR come into play. Regardless of whether Bucky will be taking orders from then or not, his image if nothing else will serve their purposes whether he likes or or not. Course, that can work against them too depending on how he acts.

[Dagger]

Another awesome issue. Thank you, Mr. Brubaker. I'm hoping that before we get him joining an Avengers team, we get him with at least a full years adventures as Cap under his belt. I mean, he's got to learn what it takes to be Cap and he needs to face some of his villains.

Wow, there's been a lot of legacy characters popping up in the Marvel U. I wonder how long until Tony gets replaced by someone else as Iron Man? If it does happen, I hope it's done better than the teen Tony arc. Blech, was that bad!:mad:

[TotalWorldDomination]

The difference is that now the government can say Captain America is registered and supports the registration.


That's the most beautiful thing you've ever said... I can't recall the last time I was this happy about something Cap did! :D

[XPac]

That's the most beautiful thing you've ever said... I can't recall the last time I was this happy about something Cap did! :D

I don't think Cap actually did that. At least not yet.

I'm just speculating on why the government would WANT Cap to support the registration. Whether or not he 's registered and supports the thing remains to be seen.

[LordEd1976]

Call me crazy but I think somehow the Skull is now inside of Bucky. The body in the crash was real and somehow Skull is the new Captain America. It plays right into the cover of the next issue and is one of those "never saw that coming moments".

God, I hope not. that would stupid. I'm more interested in seeing Bucky try to live up to Steve's legacy than watching Red Skull cackle while wearing the Cap mask. Besides, the Skull already impersonated Steve TWICE. I hope Brubaker is smart enough not to retread something thats been done before.

[Dr. Chaos]

I don't think Cap actually did that. At least not yet.

I'm just speculating on why the government would WANT Cap to support the registration. Whether or not he 's registered and supports the thing remains to be seen.
Yeah, don't get too excited, TWD.

Ed more than likely isn't going to let Captain America/Bucky become a tool of the government, it's an issue I expect him to take on in the book as soon as they finish the Red Skull business.

[jackolover]

& i DO NOT think tony will try to control him in any way. i think he respected steve to much to do that, & if steve didnt trust tony, he wouldnt have botherd with the letter. .

And I bet Thor trusts Tony as well. No, Tony is this guy who thinks four moves ahead, and if he hasn't double crossed Bucky, it's the first time he hasn't double crossed. This IS Tony Stark we're talking about?

[jackolover]

So, is Bucky still going to be unregistered while he's working as an independent hero?

With Tony as start-up, he will be registered.




So far I like what Bucky's going for, I'd eventually like to see him join the New Avengers but I'm starting to wonder how feasible that is at this point.).

Under Tonys influence, I see Bucky replacing Ms Marvel in the MA. The NA have Luke Cage, and Bucky hasn't met him, yet.




Thats obviously the team where his heart would be but he's even more of a loner than Wolverine (which I guess might not be saying much at all considering he's like on eight teams).

I can see Bucky operating independantly of any teams, and only brought in on big events like a CW, or WWH, (or Secret Invasion). If any team at all, Bucky could take over the Young Avengers, because they are the Next Generation Avengers, and Bucky is Next Gen.

[jackolover]

God, I hope not. that would stupid. I'm more interested in seeing Bucky try to live up to Steve's legacy than watching Red Skull cackle while wearing the Cap mask. Besides, the Skull already impersonated Steve TWICE. I hope Brubaker is smart enough not to retread something thats been done before.

I doubt it, as Faustus agreed he was going to kill Bucky anyway, when he admitted it to Sharon, so Skull had no time to jump aboard.

[tavella]

But Stark gave it to him based on Steve's wishes. Doesn't that count for something?

As I said above, I found that extra offensive. Think it over: "I believe that you have the wrong of it. I believe this so strongly that I am willing to take up arms against you and my own government. I believe this so strongly that I will continue fighting even after people die. So be sure and take my symbols and use them in your cause! Instead of someone who actually believes in my side!"

It's so ludicrous you can only come to the conclusion that Cap was insane (which is pretty much how Millar's version comes off), or that he didn't really believe in his own cause and secretly knew that Tony Was Right. That is, stripping the character of that last tiny bit of dignity; that he died scorned and spat upon by people that he had defended every moment of his life since he was a teenager, but that in the middle of that shaming he still believed in his own cause and principles, and that he struggled to follow them to the last breath of his life. Instead, now we know that he knew he was wrong and got a bunch of people killed because he didn't want to admit it.

I will point out that it was Cap *refusing to allow himself to be used as a symbol for the pro-reg side* that caused Maria Hill to attack him. It's not like they needed him powerwise, and even though he didn't have a high opinion of it he wasn't planning to resist at that point. But they wanted him as a symbol for the SHRA. And now they have the closest thing they can get to it.

Because if they admitted he isn't an independent agent, then they wouldn't have reason to whine.

Dude. Someone hires you. You negotiate a contract where you get to work independently. You are still a subordinate of them, and they still hire and fire you if what you do doesn't suit their interests. I repeat: Captain America is now merely whoever Tony Stark says it is, not his peer or equal. A permanent degradation of the role of a once central figure in the Marvel universe.

Sure, Bucky's negotiated to avoid being assigned to go round up powered kids or whatever, but they probably don't want him for that, anyway. It might scuff up his shiny propaganda value. And that's what he is, a propaganda tool, both in universe and in regards to the fans: see! *Bucky* accepts that deciding who will be Captain America is Tony Stark's demesne! See, he's all registered and wearing the shiny Stark uniform!

[worstblogever]

I'm just waiting to see how long before Brubaker writes the Black Widow and Bucky to have another little nekkid reunion. And... if they do, that means that 70,000 readers will technically have read geriatric erotica.

Hey, don't blame me, but they're both in like their eighties now. Octogenarian love affairs. And Brubaker can make us like it. Now that's the test of a quality writer, right there.

[jpk]

Finally read this last night. I loved the pacing. It didn't feel forced or fast at all. Brubaker proves that even in the Decompression Era it's possible to weave a story in one issue.

On a side note, when is Tony going to get that 'bad guys popping off my helmet' thing fixed?

Most recently Namor and Bucky stopped one of the most powerful heroes in the MU by...taking off his helmet.

Really?!?

[TotalWorldDomination]

Yeah, don't get too excited, TWD.

Ed more than likely isn't going to let Captain America/Bucky become a tool of the government, it's an issue I expect him to take on in the book as soon as they finish the Red Skull business.

But I can dream can't I??? I CAN DREAM DAMN IT!!! *sobs uncontrollably*

With Tony as start-up, he will be registered.


Under Tonys influence, I see Bucky replacing Ms Marvel in the MA. The NA have Luke Cage, and Bucky hasn't met him, yet.

I agree that he's going to be registered, but I doubt that he'll be leading the MA's any time soon. I don't even think he'll be on the team, but if he is you can bet the NA's will come a gunnin for him to take out the "fake cap". Hawkeye... I mean Ronin... and Luke will be gunning for him in particular. Then they'll find out it's Bucky and be forced to back off. I'd wager Falcon would be involved somehow as well.


I can see Bucky operating independantly of any teams, and only brought in on big events like a CW, or WWH, (or Secret Invasion). If any team at all, Bucky could take over the Young Avengers, because they are the Next Generation Avengers, and Bucky is Next Gen.

I'd wager the independent route is the one they will take, at least for a while. The Young Avengers thing is interesting... but unlikely. they have there version of cap already. And most of them are unregistered.

I'm just waiting to see how long before Brubaker writes the Black Widow and Bucky to have another little nekkid reunion. And... if they do, that means that 70,000 readers will technically have read geriatric erotica.

Hey, don't blame me, but they're both in like their eighties now. Octogenarian love affairs. And Brubaker can make us like it. Now that's the test of a quality writer, right there.

If all Octogenarians looked like that, anyone would love it.

On a side note, when is Tony going to get that 'bad guys popping off my helmet' thing fixed?

Most recently Namor and Bucky stopped one of the most powerful heroes in the MU by...taking off his helmet.

Really?!?

yeah, this has been bothering me too. It's the most powerful weapon in the marvel U... that everyone has beaten up on recently.

[rwsmith]

Great issue! And I honestly think that Bucky will make a much cooler Captain America than Steve ever did. Sorry, but I always thought that 616 Steve Rogers was cheesy as hell.

I do hope they'll give him some sort of Super Soldier Serum or something to jack him up, though, because right now he's just a normal dude with a cybernetic arm. And he's not nearly big enough to be Cap either. I think he's only like 5'9".

Give him some juice!;)

[Dagger]

Great issue! And I honestly think that Bucky will make a much cooler Captain America than Steve ever did. Sorry, but I always thought that 616 Steve Rogers was cheesy as hell.

I do hope they'll give him some sort of Super Soldier Serum or something to jack him up, though, because right now he's just a normal dude with a cybernetic arm. And he's not nearly big enough to be Cap either. I think he's only like 5'9".

Give him some juice!;)
:eek: WHAT??? Have you not read any Cap by Waid or Gruenwald??? He was amazing!

[TotalWorldDomination]

:eek: WHAT??? Have you not read any Cap by Waid or Gruenwald??? He was amazing!

I have to agree. I was disappointed as heck when cap went anti-reg, but Steve rodgers is now, and will forever be, one of my favorite characters in comics. I think Bucky will do a heck of a job and I think Steve works best as a symbol for people to live up to (so it actually works for him to be dead), but don't underestimate his greatness in his prime.

[Dagger]

I have to agree. I was disappointed as heck when cap went anti-reg, but Steve rodgers is now, and will forever be, one of my favorite characters in comics. I think Bucky will do a heck of a job and I think Steve works best as a symbol for people to live up to (so it actually works for him to be dead), but don't underestimate his greatness in his prime.
Gotta agree. I mean, I love Steve, and all the stuff that he's done, but I'm excited to see how Buck tries to live up to his idol. I wonder how much Steve is going to affect him when it comes to him being Cap.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Gotta agree. I mean, I love Steve, and all the stuff that he's done, but I'm excited to see how Buck tries to live up to his idol. I wonder how much Steve is going to affect him when it comes to him being Cap.

This is one of the things I'm finding most exciting about the new Cap series. Steve Rodgers is an impossible standard to live up to. there will never be anyone as good as him. Bucky is going to have to find some way to live up to the record of someone who was literally the best of the best and be the Captain America that America needs right now facing the threat of total collapse in the wake of parts 2,3,4 and 5 of the Lutkin-Skull plan.

He'll never live up to Steve Rodgers memory... but it's going to be fun watching him try!

[XPac]

This is one of the things I'm finding most exciting about the new Cap series. Steve Rodgers is an impossible standard to live up to. there will never be anyone as good as him. Bucky is going to have to find some way to live up to the record of someone who was literally the best of the best and be the Captain America that America needs right now facing the threat of total collapse in the wake of parts 2,3,4 and 5 of the Lutkin-Skull plan.

He'll never live up to Steve Rodgers memory... but it's going to be fun watching him try!

We'll see. I can't say it was fun watching US Agent try to live up to being Cap, or watching Azrael try to live up to Batman's standards.

Never mind living up to Caps standards, I wonder how the heck he even qualifies for being registered if he's a mentally screwed up assasin. But they let Moon Knight get his liscence, so I suppose this isn't much of a stretch.

[Mugs]

What's the difference if he's registered or not?

He won't work for the government directly, he has no family that we know of yet.

Bucky has a sister, although I think she's only shown up twice, in the 1991 Christmas Special and Captain America 515 (or volume 3 48). Actually wouldn't mind her popping up again, be interesting to see his reaction that he's not totally alone.

[Capt USA]

great issue, pacing was great in it, it wasn't decompressed at all, it's the first time since Caps death that it appears the good guys have finally succeeded at something (although we know the red skulls going to be launching a plan soon so it's just a breather)

As to Tony Stark using bucky? Not with the way that Ed has written Tony (this is the real Tony stark, not the caricature that was in civil war, not the twirling mad genius in frontline or the tyrant in pretty much every other book that he's guested in)

And the guy that constantly says "Stark hired bucky and has control of him"....um no. Stark is giving him a uniform and a title, it's wholly Bucky's to do with it what he wants, it's a gift, and it's more of a dead mans wishes than tony or shields doing, once they give him this gift they can't take it away just because. (of course if Bucky goes out and starts making the name look bad by killing bad guys or whatever to disgrace the name of his friend then Tony Stark does have a right to do that)

I have to agree with the other poster, that body they were talking about was a fake Lukin body.

[XPac]

great issue, pacing was great in it, it wasn't decompressed at all, it's the first time since Caps death that it appears the good guys have finally succeeded at something (although we know the red skulls going to be launching a plan soon so it's just a breather)

As to Tony Stark using bucky? Not with the way that Ed has written Tony (this is the real Tony stark, not the caricature that was in civil war, not the twirling mad genius in frontline or the tyrant in pretty much every other book that he's guested in)

And the guy that constantly says "Stark hired bucky and has control of him"....um no. Stark is giving him a uniform and a title, it's wholly Bucky's to do with it what he wants, it's a gift, and it's more of a dead mans wishes than tony or shields doing, once they give him this gift they can't take it away just because. (of course if Bucky goes out and starts making the name look bad by killing bad guys or whatever to disgrace the name of his friend then Tony Stark does have a right to do that)

I have to agree with the other poster, that body they were talking about was a fake Lukin body.

I think it's a little naive to say that Bucky now has the uniform and title with no strings attatched.

Even if we give Stark the benefit of the doubt and assume there are no strings attatched, we already know the government has interest in having a Captain America they can control.

[Capt USA]

I think it's a little naive to say that Bucky now has the uniform and title with no strings attatched.

Even if we give Stark the benefit of the doubt and assume there are no strings attatched, we already know the government has interest in having a Captain America they can control.


what they want versus what will happen is two different things, government controlling cap has always been a possibility regardless of who wore the costume. Considering how well the characters of bucky and tony have been developed in this series, I'll take both of these guys at their word. In other books things may happen differently but under Brubaker I don't see tony as a villain or even a person who will tarnish Steves reputation just to have a symbol.

[XPac]

what they want versus what will happen is two different things, government controlling cap has always been a possibility regardless of who wore the costume. Considering how well the characters of bucky and tony have been developed in this series, I'll take both of these guys at their word. In other books things may happen differently but under Brubaker I don't see tony as a villain or even a person who will tarnish Steves reputation just to have a symbol.

It almost certainly won't be possible to Bucky... he was Winter Soldier afterall. I'm just questioning the notion that he's basically going to be free to do what he wants as Cap.

I big reason why Civil War occured in the first place was because the REAL Cap refused to go along with what goverment wanted.

And as for Tony... to say that he might want to control Bucky doesn't necessarily make him a villain. Bucky is a mentally unstable assassin... this point bears repeating. He might have an interest in making sure Bucky does NOT tarnish Caps legacy out of respect for Caps memory. Again, there is a downside to giving the mantle of arguably the greatest man in the history of the MU to a mentally unstable assasin. It's something both Bucky and Tony should have really put more thought into before handing him the costume.

[Tobias Drake]

It almost certainly won't be possible to Bucky... he was Winter Soldier afterall. I'm just questioning the notion that he's basically going to be free to do what he wants as Cap.

I big reason why Civil War occured in the first place was because the REAL Cap refused to go along with what goverment wanted.

And as for Tony... to say that he might want to control Bucky doesn't necessarily make him a villain. Bucky is a mentally unstable assassin... this point bears repeating. He might have an interest in making sure Bucky does NOT tarnish Caps legacy out of respect for Caps memory. Again, there is a downside to giving the mantle of arguably the greatest man in the history of the MU to a mentally unstable assasin. It's something both Bucky and Tony should have really put more thought into before handing him the costume.

Two birds, one stone. Steve wanted Tony to help Bucky, and for someone to carry on the mantle of Captain America. Whether he intended for Bucky to be Captain America or not, after Bucky has put so much effort in making sure no one ever tarnishes Captain America's name, having Bucky himself carry the mantle could keep him on the straight path by leaving it to Bucky himself to ensure that he lives up to the title. Best case scenario, both of Steve's final requests answer each other. Worst case scenario...Bucky goes nuts, the Initiative reigns him in, and Tony has to think of something else.

[tavella]

the Initiative reigns him in, and Tony has to think of something else.

Like I said; not an independent agent. Captain America is now just whoever Tony Stark says it is, and Bucky only holds that title as long as Stark chooses.

People seem to be having a hard time comprehending this; Captain America is just an Stark employee now. Stark may allow him a degree of freedom (because we all know that in nu-Marvel, Tony Stark is the bestest hero ever), but it's only because he chooses and he can take it away any time he wants.

It's just Marvel clarifying yet again that Tony Was Right and Steve Was Wrong, so wrong that the title of Captain America had to be purified by being passed through the Great Wisdom and Compassion of Iron Man, instead of someone who was, y'know, actually his friend and on his side when he died.

[Tobias Drake]

Like I said; not an independent agent. Captain America is now just whoever Tony Stark says it is, and Bucky only holds that title as long as Stark chooses.

People seem to be having a hard time comprehending this; Captain America is just an Stark employee now. Stark may allow him a degree of freedom (because we all know that in nu-Marvel, Tony Stark is the bestest hero ever), but it's only because he chooses and he can take it away any time he wants.

It's just Marvel clarifying yet again that Tony Was Right and Steve Was Wrong, so wrong that the title of Captain America had to be purified by being passed through the Great Wisdom and Compassion of Iron Man, instead of someone who was, y'know, actually his friend and on his side when he died.

Until you add the human element. Tony wants Bucky to succeed. He wants Bucky to be a great Captain America, to uphold the title and Steve's legacy fairly, and to fulfill the last wishes of Steve Rogers. That's the thing. I don't think Tony would make any move against Bucky unless Bucky went nuts and started gunning people down in a crowded mall or something, at which point no one could blame Tony for wanting to stop him.

[XPac]

Two birds, one stone. Steve wanted Tony to help Bucky, and for someone to carry on the mantle of Captain America. Whether he intended for Bucky to be Captain America or not, after Bucky has put so much effort in making sure no one ever tarnishes Captain America's name, having Bucky himself carry the mantle could keep him on the straight path by leaving it to Bucky himself to ensure that he lives up to the title. Best case scenario, both of Steve's final requests answer each other. Worst case scenario...Bucky goes nuts, the Initiative reigns him in, and Tony has to think of something else.

Well, SHIELD can TRY to reign him in... whether or not they can actually do it is kind of questionable since they have frankly yet to prove they have that level of competence. But that aside, if Bucky does a bad job the damage to Caps legacy will already be done. Granted it's not the end of the world if Bucky proves to be a bad Cap. But I do think Cap deserved better than that. Again, he is a powerful symbol to both the public, the government and the hero commununity that used properly can inspire others... it would be a shame to waste that out of convininence.

[jonwes]

Like I said; not an independent agent. Captain America is now just whoever Tony Stark says it is, and Bucky only holds that title as long as Stark chooses.

People seem to be having a hard time comprehending this; Captain America is just an Stark employee now.


People have hard time comprehending that because A.) You're Wrong and B.) You're contradicting what the book says.

If in your own head you want this to be how it plays out, then feel free. The rest of us will be reading the book and following it's plotline out here in the real world. :)

[Tobias Drake]

Well, SHIELD can TRY to reign him in... whether or not they can actually do it is kind of questionable since they have frankly yet to prove they have that level of competence. But that aside, if Bucky does a bad job the damage to Caps legacy will already be done. Granted it's not the end of the world if Bucky proves to be a bad Cap. But I do think Cap deserved better than that. Again, he is a powerful symbol to both the public, the government and the hero commununity that used properly can inspire others... it would be a shame to waste that out of convininence.

He's a russian assassin with mental problems. If Bucky goes nuts and destroys the image of Captain America, they can easily disavow any connection to said insane russian assassin. Whereas if he does a great job, he will be a Captain America to inspire people.

Especially since he refuses to answer to anyone. He's an independent contractor, and doesn't take orders from the government. It would be so easy to disavow any relations with him.

[XPac]

Until you add the human element. Tony wants Bucky to succeed. He wants Bucky to be a great Captain America, to uphold the title and Steve's legacy fairly, and to fulfill the last wishes of Steve Rogers. That's the thing. I don't think Tony would make any move against Bucky unless Bucky went nuts and started gunning people down in a crowded mall or something, at which point no one could blame Tony for wanting to stop him.

True, though you could arguably blame Tony for giving the mantle to a mentally unstable assassin to begin with.

[Tobias Drake]

True, though you could arguably blame Tony for giving the mantle to a mentally unstable assassin to begin with.

Granted. It's a gamble, but if it works out, wonderful, and if it doesn't...well, there's already a means for him to clean it up.

[Dr. Chaos]

True, though you could arguably blame Tony for giving the mantle to a mentally unstable assassin to begin with.
Oh please, it's not like Bucky is going to go around cutting people's heads off.

Tony knows this, Bucky does.

Bucky is obviously going to be more ruthless but unless Ed is setting him up to fail, he's not going to crap all over the shield a dead man that was as close as a brother/father gave to him. Bucky may be a lil unhinged but he's well aware of who he is and what he's capable of, he knows what Captain America was and about.

[Tobias Drake]

And he DID, after all, have S.H.I.E.L.D.'s guys pour through his head and remove any lingering brainwashing that could otherwise have been used against him.

[XPac]

Oh please, it's not like Bucky is going to go around cutting people's heads off.

Tony knows this, Bucky does.

Bucky is obviously going to be more ruthless but unless Ed is setting him up to fail, he's not going to crap all over the shield a dead man that was as close as a brother/father gave to him. Bucky may be a lil unhinged but he's well aware of who he is and what he's capable of, he knows what Captain America was and about.

I don't see him cutting people's heads off. But shooting them is a possibility.

Again, Bucky is a mentally unbalanced assassin. Heck, he's been an assassin since he was freaking 16. That's the white elephant in the room you can't ignore no matter how hard you try. I won't deny that Bucky and anyone else for that matter doesn't have the same potential that Steve Rogers does... I just don't agree with the logic of handing over the mantle to a mentally unbalanced assasin and then hope that he doesn't act like a mentally unbalanced assassin.

As for him being set up to fail... history has shown that MANY legacy heroes end up being in just that situation.

[jackolover]

Well, SHIELD can TRY to reign him in... whether or not they can actually do it is kind of questionable since they have frankly yet to prove they have that level of competence. But that aside, if Bucky does a bad job the damage to Caps legacy will already be done. Granted it's not the end of the world if Bucky proves to be a bad Cap. But I do think Cap deserved better than that. Again, he is a powerful symbol to both the public, the government and the hero commununity that used properly can inspire others... it would be a shame to waste that out of convininence.

I don't think Bucky makes a good Cap.

Just because Stark and Barnes were on the same wavelength about interpreting Steve Rogers letter, doesn't logically progress to, Bucky needs to be Cap. I think Bucky and Tony extrapolated a bit too much.

Bucky is a neurotic, post-assassin, who hasn't come to terms with himself in the modern world, let alone become a SYMBOL of that modern world. God, everything Steve Rogers wasn't, as shown in CW #7, Bucky is twice as bad.

Bucky has shown he is reluctant to make contact with anybody in the modern world except Nick Fury, (and now maybe Black Widow, and Steves girlfriend, Sharon). He works alone; he keeps to himself, and he doesn't trust himself, after all the mental triggers used on him. Now, he trusts Tony Stark, who he blames for Steves death, and in a few minutes, agrees to being Steves replacement to the same Tony Stark?

I mean, it's a huge leap for Bucky to go from punching out Tony Stark, and then falling for this letter to become Cap, and now, maybe, being an ally of Tony Stark. I still think Bucky is an idiot. He has been manipulated, duped, trigger sucker punched, everything that you could do to make a guy paranoid, and Bucky still walks into a room full of scientists and says - 'Yeah, fix my mind from all those triggers, and make sure they can't do this to me again'. Major retcon on Buckys part, and, major trust on Buckys part. The guy is too gullible.

But it all fits with Ed Brubakers style in this Cap story, considering Skull inhabits someone elses body, Sharon Carter is brainwashed to kill Cap and do what Faustus tells her, and miriad of agents and corporate lackeys are brainwashed for the Skulls master plan. Why shouldn't Bucky be manipulated also, in an environment where all the players are handicapped with mind control devices of one kind or another?

[Capt USA]

It almost certainly won't be possible to Bucky... he was Winter Soldier afterall. I'm just questioning the notion that he's basically going to be free to do what he wants as Cap.

I big reason why Civil War occured in the first place was because the REAL Cap refused to go along with what goverment wanted.

And as for Tony... to say that he might want to control Bucky doesn't necessarily make him a villain. Bucky is a mentally unstable assassin... this point bears repeating. He might have an interest in making sure Bucky does NOT tarnish Caps legacy out of respect for Caps memory. Again, there is a downside to giving the mantle of arguably the greatest man in the history of the MU to a mentally unstable assasin. It's something both Bucky and Tony should have really put more thought into before handing him the costume.


I don't agree with the mentally unstable part, the book even mentions removing the last vestiges of the winter soldier programming, and many of his questionable actions have been done under programming, this isn't the punisher, a flat out villian, this is a guy who like wolverine, was trained to be one of the best covert ops in the business, and if you look at his track record after cap cured him with the cube, to the best of my knowledge he hasn't killed anyone. (not counting flunkys of course) Heck on multiple occassions he stopped himself from killing.

[snoopafly]

I actually think Bucky will make a decent Cap. Clint would definitely be better as of now, but I think eventually Bucky would be fine. Even though it seems Marvel has been trying to establish that "Captain America" is more of a symbol, in reality Steve Rogers was what really made Captain America so great. The way his own personal morals guided his actions, set the standard for how Captain America should be. Nobody knows Steve better than Bucky, especially since Bucky knew Steve back when he first became Captain America. I don't think Bucky is going to act like the crazy assassin that he is, I think he's really going to try and act more like how Steve was. I mean, Cap was his idol, for him to be a killer while wearing the uniform would be the ultimate blasphemy to him. I don't think he'll be as much of vocal, emotional and personal leader as Cap was, but I think he will be more of a leader who leads by example. He will base his actions on how Steve would of done it and expect others to step in line.

Did anyone else think the part where his robotic arm starting flying around and going crazy was hilarious? That was super random and made me think of the hand from The Addams family. :D

[Capt USA]

Like I said; not an independent agent. Captain America is now just whoever Tony Stark says it is, and Bucky only holds that title as long as Stark chooses.

People seem to be having a hard time comprehending this; Captain America is just an Stark employee now. Stark may allow him a degree of freedom (because we all know that in nu-Marvel, Tony Stark is the bestest hero ever), but it's only because he chooses and he can take it away any time he wants.

It's just Marvel clarifying yet again that Tony Was Right and Steve Was Wrong, so wrong that the title of Captain America had to be purified by being passed through the Great Wisdom and Compassion of Iron Man, instead of someone who was, y'know, actually his friend and on his side when he died.

Once again I disagree, I don't think he is a stark employee at all, and I for one second don't think we will see Stark pulling that manipulative angle in a Captain America comic.

[Camron Amaya]

I really don't think Steve intended Bucky to be a clone of him. He knew what he was asking for when he asked him to become it.

[Theophilus]

When you say Bucky's been an assassin since he was 16 it's technically true, but there's a clear distinction between his attitude before he was reprogrammed by Karpov. Bucky did what he had to do, but he didn't necessarily enjoy it. He showed extreme distaste for Karpov's torture tactics.

And Brubaker has gone on record as saying that Cap wasn't necessarily opposed to Bucky's black-ops training. It was just that there things Cap couldn't do as a symbol that Bucky could.

[AllisterH]

One question I always wonder about.

How come USagent is never mentioned?

[Theophilus]

Once again I disagree, I don't think he is a stark employee at all, and I for one second don't think we will see Stark pulling that manipulative angle in a Captain America comic.

Nope. As far as Brubaker is concerned, Stark is genuinely committed to honoring Steve's memory.

[Dr. Chaos]

I don't see him cutting people's heads off. But shooting them is a possibility.
Yeah, no kidding.

Thats why he's going to carry one.

Punching someone in the face isn't the only way to stop someone, popping them in the knee or arms works surprisingly well, Pac, you should try it. ;)

And if people don't think Bucky can operate as a functional but hard as nails superhero, I think they're underestimating his potential. People can harp on about mental instability all they want, but he's not an idiot.

Like what was hinted at during the Red Skull incident where he refrained from offing Crossbones and Tony's insistence that Bucky needs this, Cap wanted it for him and how it will help him back on the right path, I think the character is about to do alot of growing up in some aspects.

[Brian M.]

I think a great ongoing plot point will be showing Bucky trying to curtail the more lethal fighting style he has. Showing him trying to live up to the Captain America name, the style and image he put forth yet continueing to fall back into the more lethal ways he has used since being the Winter Soldier.

[XPac]

I don't agree with the mentally unstable part, the book even mentions removing the last vestiges of the winter soldier programming, and many of his questionable actions have been done under programming, this isn't the punisher, a flat out villian, this is a guy who like wolverine, was trained to be one of the best covert ops in the business, and if you look at his track record after cap cured him with the cube, to the best of my knowledge he hasn't killed anyone. (not counting flunkys of course) Heck on multiple occassions he stopped himself from killing.

I wouldn't consider Bucky or Punisher a flat out villain... but both are assasins. Heck, he's been one since he was freaking 16. And I would argue he's come off as fairly mentally unstable for a while now... understandable so. I don't blame him for having the issues that he did... he's a guy that was trained to be a murderer as a young teenager before being brainwashed to be a soviet assassin. That would mess up anyone. He has my sympathy... and I think he can be a good hero, even if he is a killer.

But to be Captain America is frankly meeting the highest standard imaginable. I frankly question if he should even qualify for a liscense, let alone be allowed to run around calling himself Captain America. He simply hasn't proven a whole lot.

[XPac]

When you say Bucky's been an assassin since he was 16 it's technically true, but there's a clear distinction between his attitude before he was reprogrammed by Karpov. Bucky did what he had to do, but he didn't necessarily enjoy it. He showed extreme distaste for Karpov's torture tactics.

And Brubaker has gone on record as saying that Cap wasn't necessarily opposed to Bucky's black-ops training. It was just that there things Cap couldn't do as a symbol that Bucky could.

So according to Brubaker, Cap was not oppossed to the US government teaching a teenage boy to be an assasin in the military? Obviously Brubaker has a very different image of Cap than I do.

I'd assume Cap, and really ANYONE for that matter, would have issues with underage teenage boys in the military being trained to be assassins.

[Brian M.]

I thought Cap's problem was that he didn't want to be told who to fight? He didn't like that he didn't have any input.

[Gordon Smith]

When you say Bucky's been an assassin since he was 16 it's technically true, but there's a clear distinction between his attitude before he was reprogrammed by Karpov. Bucky did what he had to do, but he didn't necessarily enjoy it. He showed extreme distaste for Karpov's torture tactics.

And Brubaker has gone on record as saying that Cap wasn't necessarily opposed to Bucky's black-ops training. It was just that there things Cap couldn't do as a symbol that Bucky could.

Bucky's wartime actions as a soldier were not those of an assassin. He was trained to kill uniformed members of the enemy under appropriate and lawful circumstances. He probably shouldn't have been permitted to enlist while underage, but that was only a matter of signing up a few months early-he could have legally enlisted only a short time later, when he turned seventeen.

[Theophilus]

So according to Brubaker, Cap was not oppossed to the US government teaching a teenage boy to be an assasin in the military? Obviously Brubaker has a very different image of Cap than I do.

The context of the discussion was the idea that Bucky would have been able to do certain things that Cap couldn't, but not necessarily wouldn't, because of his higher visibility. Brubaker's take (as I understand it) is that as a soldier, Captain America was perfectly willing to take enemy encapments by surprise and slit throats if that's what it took to fight the Nazis.It just so happens that Cap didn't have to because that wasn't his function.

Brubaker basically did what any good writer would do and asked who Cap would be, and as a World War II veteran he would be somone who is willing to kill in lawful warfare and understands that certain uncomfortable choices must be made. He's said "what good is a super-solider who wouldn't kill?" and it's a good point. But that doesn't mean that Brubaker sees Cap as a killer. Most situations now don't call for Cap to use lethal force.

I think Brubaker's Cap is actually more moral than say, Gruenwald's who claimed to have never killed at all. In spite of the difficult choices he's had to made, Cap still doesn't approve of torture or of using lethal force except when absolutely necessary. St. Augustine had a saying that it's easier abstinence is easier than moderation. The thing that's amazing about Cap is that he still holds to the highest values, but he doesn't oversimplify his decisions.

I'd assume Cap, and really ANYONE for that matter, would have issues with underage teenage boys in the military being trained to be assassins.

They had much different standards of underage at the time. Wasn't uncommon for underage teens to enlist.

[SnakeEater]

Gruenwald went down this line with SuperPatriot/USAgent/John Walker. At some point, Bucky will decide he's just not worthy of the Cap mantle, just in time for Steve Rogers to make his amazing return from the dead.

Everything old is new again. Everything new will be retconned away. That's the MU.

do you think they will do to captain america what the goblin formula did to norman osborn?

[Ed Brubaker]

People, on the Cap and Bucky stuff... it's all in the comics. You don't even need to go to interviews for quotes from me, it's all right there in the pages of the comics, scattered throughout scenes during our first 14 issues.

And why are so many people saying that Bucky is "mentally unstable?" Since Steve gave him back his memories, he's been angry, and searching, and ashamed of what he did as Winter Soldier for the Russians, but he hasn't been going crazy or anything, or whacking people. Since Steve used the cube to give him back his real memories, he's been trying to find a way back.

Not to complain, but this is all in the comics, and I'm starting to think that most of the people complaining here haven't read them.

Also, I really find it funny how you all assume Bucky will fail.

[Brian M.]

Eh, not all of us think he'll fail. I think it's a good idea to see Bucky as Cap. Seeing him trying to earn the same respect and form the same image his mentor achieved. I was gonna drop the book, but I think I'll stick to it for a while more.

[mikekerr3]

People, on the Cap and Bucky stuff... it's all in the comics. You don't even need to go to interviews for quotes from me, it's all right there in the pages of the comics, scattered throughout scenes during our first 14 issues.

And why are so many people saying that Bucky is "mentally unstable?" Since Steve gave him back his memories, he's been angry, and searching, and ashamed of what he did as Winter Soldier for the Russians, but he hasn't been going crazy or anything, or whacking people. Since Steve used the cube to give him back his real memories, he's been trying to find a way back.

Not to complain, but this is all in the comics, and I'm starting to think that most of the people complaining here haven't read them.

Also, I really find it funny how you all assume Bucky will fail.

Sir,

I think that bucky will make a good Cap, he has the skill and the guts. his Anger I take a a positive sign. I think that the reasons most people think he will fail is that he is assuming he will go along with tony Starks agenda making him a villian to many on the Anti-reg side. Or that he will not making him a criminal in the eyes of the Pro-reg. The intentional anger and hatred of some characters that the CW and aftermath has generated is very deep.

I used to think that Iron man and Ms Marvel were my favorite heros, now I avoid them.

[XPac]

They had much different standards of underage at the time. Wasn't uncommon for underage teens to enlist.

I would argue it was just as unlawful and unethical to train a 16 year old to be an assasin back then as it is now.

[mikekerr3]

I would argue it was just as unlawful and unethical to train a 16 year old to be an assasin back then as it is now.

Wasn't legal then but, if you read thier were a lot of 15/16s year old in the Army at that time, nobody really checked the paper you gave them. As for training him to be an assassin, in wartime, on the battlefield, that is a meaningless term. Most of the people there are trained killers trying to kill others, preferably without the other even knowing they were there.

The most successful fighter pilots tried to shoot the other guy before he even saw them.

[XPac]

Wasn't legal then but, if you read thier were a lot of 15/16s year old in the Army at that time, nobody really checked the paper you gave them. As for training him to be an assassin, in wartime, on the battlefield, that is a meaningless term. Most of the people there are trained killers trying to kill others, preferably without the other even knowing they were there.

The most successful fighter pilots tried to shoot the other guy before he even saw them.

I'd argue the term "assassin" has great meaning when you're dealing with a 16 year old boy. What they did was flat out wrong, and I'm not sure I need to even bother trying to argue that point.

But my main point is that he grew up to be a very different sort of character than Captain America was. He was trained to do the things that Steve wouldn't do. And the fact that he spent this issue trying to kill Tony doesn't go a super long ways in convincing me he's Cap material. I won't say that he or any other human being on the face of the earth for that matter doesn't have the potential to be.... but I'm not seeing it here. I'm I'm skeptical of the mentality of giving someone such a mantle based purely on the hope that he does get there someday.

To me, I think Bucky has a bit more to prove before he deserve it. He really hasn't done a hole lot lately other than being an occasional agent for Fury and trying to kill Tony. That's not a resume I'd look at and suddenly assume he could be heir to the greatest hero in the MU.

[mikekerr3]

I'd argue the term "assassin" has great meaning when you're dealing with a 16 year old boy. What they did was flat out wrong, and I'm not sure I need to even bother trying to argue that point.

But my main point is that he grew up to be a very different sort of character than Captain America was. He was trained to do the things that Steve wouldn't do. And the fact that he spent this issue trying to kill Tony doesn't go a super long ways in convincing me he's Cap material. I won't say that he or any other human being on the face of the earth for that matter doesn't have the potential to be.... but I'm not seeing it here. I'm I'm skeptical of the mentality of giving someone such a mantle based purely on the hope that he does get there someday.

To me, I think Bucky has a bit more to prove before he deserve it. He really hasn't done a hole lot lately other than being an occasional agent for Fury and trying to kill Tony. That's not a resume I'd look at and suddenly assume he could be heir to the greatest hero in the MU.

He fought beside that hero for years, knew him better than anyone. I consider trying to kill Tony a virtue that more of the Mu should try to emulate.

[XPac]

He fought beside that hero for years, knew him better than anyone. I consider trying to kill Tony a virtue that more of the Mu should try to emulate.

Sure, he fought alongside Cap for years. A lot of heroes did. And arguably for a much longer period of time depending on how much time has passed since Cap was thawed.

I'm just saying there are plenty of other people with a much better resume as far as heroism goes than Winder Soldier. Like I said, the guy simply hasn't done a lot heroic or otherwise. Yeah, he's not gone psychotic or anything... he's not going around killing people. But in the same breath I don't exactly see him going out of his way to go around helping people and being a good hero either. To a degree I don't blame him since he is one messed up guy... but in the same breath I don't consider that a trait in the plus column for electing him Captain America either.

[Fatguy]

Great issue, having finally read it this morning. Epting draws a HOT Iron Man suit! The fight was fun and exciting. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to next issue.

[mikekerr3]

I'd argue the term "assassin" has great meaning when you're dealing with a 16 year old boy. What they did was flat out wrong, and I'm not sure I need to even bother trying to argue that point.



Most of the Men fighting alongside him would have been within 2-3 years of his age.

If you ever go look at the Wall in DC the average age on that wall is 19yrs 6month. Wars are usually fought by kids. Always have been. Adult are harder to get to do stupid things.

[XPac]

Most of the Men fighting alongside him would have been within 2-3 years of his age.

If you ever go look at the Wall in DC the average age on that wall is 19yrs 6month. Wars are usually fought by kids. Always have been. Adult are harder to get to do stupid things.

There are some things I think being flexible with age is no big deal. An M rated video game. An R rated movie. Maybe even a beer on prom night or something.

Training people to be assasins is kind of a different thing. If you feel it's no big deal, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[mikekerr3]

There are some things I think being flexible with age is no big deal. An M rated video game. An R rated movie. Maybe even a beer on prom night or something.

Training people to be assasins is kind of a different thing. If you feel it's no big deal, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


I think that no one too young to have a drink should be allowed to wear a uniform. I put mine on at 17 which was too young.

I am not saying that its a good thing just a common one. My father talked about fighting 12-13 year olds near the end of WWII. Not a good thing just a regrettably common one.

[PaidHero]

Uh...just to nitpick, there actually is a new Hawkeye. She's a Young Avenger. Also, Clint's Ronin at the moment.

Oh yeah! haha duh i forgot about that. but still i was just making a point. lol

[Kummi]

I miss Steve. But second guessing the major editorial and writing changes in Captain America, I think it is (for now) a good thing to have a bad ass Cap. Steve's attraction was always to be out of time, to embody classic timeless values in a world gone mad and bad. That made Steve unique, but it is also a certain load to be carried around. Bucky is nearly the same age as Steve (a guy grown up in the late 30s), but he feels different. He feels in sync with these crazy times. Let him take on Al Quaida and make them pay hard.

[XPac]

Also, I really find it funny how you all assume Bucky will fail.

Is it really that funny?

When you consider the fairly mixed track record of legacy heroes and the number of heroes that return from the dead, it's not really that much of a stretch.

[Dr. Chaos]

Also, I really find it funny how you all assume Bucky will fail.
Just for the record, I do think Bucky is about to start kicking some copious amounts of ass to put it lightly.

I don't think he will fail if given a chance to stick as a true (not standby) successor, he's been a fun protagonist for the book since Rogers' death and I don't see that changing now that he's donning a legacy.

I really would like to see this be a turning point for not only Bucky but the Captain America identity in general.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's just interesting that failing seems to be the only option some people allow to exist. There are many many many ways a story like this can go before it reaches its conclusion.

Also, on Bucky's age when he joined the Army - A lot of 16 year olds fought in WW1 and WW2, and the Army just looked the other way. That's in real life.

In the fictional Marvel U, Bucky was orphaned as an Army brat and raised on the base. When he was 16 he was trained just like a lot of soldiers his age were, but when they were considering him to be Cap's sidekick, they put him through the same combat training as Cap. In the issues we talked about this, it's remarked that he'd just got back from a stint training with the newly formed SAS. It's nowhere said that he was specifically trained to be an assassin. He was trained to be a special operative.

In the actual comics from the 1940s, Bucky was portrayed even younger, and generally with a machine gun blazing or a flame-thrower blasting Nazis, or occasionally, a HUGE BOMB.

I hardly think I've tarnished that image. ;)

[mikekerr3]

I think bucky has the courage to do what he thinks Cap would do. He is a trained killer but so what, their are millions of people trained to kill walking around everyday in the US. Their are thousands of people who have been trained to kill cities walking around the US. What you have been trained to do doesn't matter what you do matters.

[Gordon Smith]

Mr. Brubaker, if I may put this question to you, is there any possibility of a cross-over between the Captain America and Immortal Iron Fist titles?

[XPac]

What you have been trained to do doesn't matter what you do matters.

That's fair.... but what I'm saying is that he frankly hasn't done a whole lot.

[Jake V]

That's fair.... but what I'm saying is that he frankly hasn't done a whole lot.

Aside from fighting alongside Cap during the entirety of his WW2 service, you mean?

[XPac]

Aside from fighting alongside Cap during the entirety of his WW2 service, you mean?

Aside from that, yes.

Since coming back, he's basically helped Nick Fury out with a few favors, and tried to kill Tony. Maybe it's just me, but it's a pretty shallow resume if you're trying to qualify as the next Cap.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more heroism on his part because passing off a mantle like this to the character. To some degree, I would have liked to have seen him do more to earn and deserve it, rather than relying solely on the fact that he was Caps sidekick a few decades ago.

[Jake V]

Aside from that, yes.

Since coming back, he's basically helped Nick Fury out with a few favors, and tried to kill Tony. Maybe it's just me, but it's a pretty shallow resume if you're trying to qualify as the next Cap.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more heroism on his part because passing off a mantle like this to the character. To some degree, I would have liked to have seen him do more to earn and deserve it, rather than relying solely on the fact that he was Caps sidekick a few decades ago.

I dunno, it looks like he's "done" a lot more than Steve Rogers ever did when he was handed the title "Captain America" by the government.

[mikekerr3]

What had Cap Done before he got the Shield, less thab Bucky has for sure. The Uniform, Name and Sheild are things that you have to live up to once you have them.

The only question if if he ihas enough moral and physical courage to do that.
He has the physical courage without a doubt.

He showed moral courage in not shooting Stark. I don't think the idea of dying would have stopped him anymore than it would have stopped Cap from doing what he thought was right thing.

[XPac]

I dunno, it looks like he's "done" a lot more than Steve Rogers ever did when he was handed the title "Captain America" by the government.

Yeah, but at the time the mantle of Captain America didn't mean anything. Steve Rogers gave the name meaning and made him a symbol. When you fill in Captain America's shoes now, you take on the mantle of the man that was arguably the greatest hero in the MU to ever live.

[Jake V]

Yeah, but at the time the mantle of Captain America didn't mean anything. Steve Rogers gave the name meaning and made him a symbol. When you fill in Captain America's shoes now, you take on the mantle of the man that was arguably the greatest hero in the MU to ever live.

Which is something Bucky is profoundly aware of, and terrified of failing at.

[Dr. Chaos]

Seriously, I can think of very few people I'd love to see under that mask than Bucky right now.

From going insane on his captors in restraints to beating shield agents with his own detached arm, Bucky really is probably hands down my favorite character in the entire Marvel universe right now.

[XPac]

Which is something Bucky is profoundly aware of, and terrified of failing at.

If that's the case, then perhaps he should have taken a bit more time in considering whether or not he can or should take up the role. I'd make the same arguement for Tony.

Their critirea is apparently based on what he did in the 1940's when he was a teenager. And it would be an understatement to say he hasn't changed quite a bit since then.

I'm not saying he absolutely can't do the job. I just question the judgement in rushing to give him the mantle when again he frankly hasn't done a whole lot to really prove he deserves it. In the very least, I'd say it's sort of a rush decision all around.

[Dr. Chaos]

If that's the case, then perhaps he should have taken a bit more time in considering whether or not he can or should take up the role.
If Steve believed in him, I don't think he needs anymore than that.

Bucky would leap through fire for Cap, now that he's thrown his last request at him, I'd say that type of respect and loyalty is more important to him than ever before.

[Nate Palm]

Christ, first Stark fights the other superheroes, gets Goliath killed, and makes it where all heroes have to answer to him and the government. But now it's completely okay with him that Bucky doesn't have to answer to him. What the hell was the point, Stark! I guess since there's been another whole cross-over Civil War isn't really all that important anymore.

[Jake V]

Christ, first Stark fights the other superheroes, gets Goliath killed, and makes it where all heroes have to answer to him and the government. But now it's completely okay with him that Bucky doesn't have to answer to him. What the hell was the point, Stark! I guess since there's been another whole cross-over Civil War isn't really all that important anymore.

He's willing to make a few exceptions if Cap was the one who asked for them.

[XPac]

He's willing to make a few exceptions if Cap was the one who asked for them.

He flat out told Strange he wasn't interested in going after the New Avengers anymore. Perhaps he was lying... but if that's not the case, I think he's moving past the whole thing about hunting down other heroes. Which I would argue is a good thing, even though it does to some degree make the whole CW thing pointless.

[Capt USA]

Christ, first Stark fights the other superheroes, gets Goliath killed, and makes it where all heroes have to answer to him and the government. But now it's completely okay with him that Bucky doesn't have to answer to him. What the hell was the point, Stark! I guess since there's been another whole cross-over Civil War isn't really all that important anymore.

do you really think the civil war was about giving tony control over the superheroes? If so you kinda missed the entire point. Stark doesn't want control over the heroes, he wants culpability, big difference. Bucky is of course going to be registered, he's just not going to be working for shield. Not every registered hero is working for shield or the initiative.

[Gemini]

Am I the only one who thinks that having a new Cap is a really lame idea? As a HUGE die hard Cap fan, even I am having a hard time staying loyal to the title lately- and I have every issue from #100 up! It's the LAST part of my collection I'd like to give up, but come ON!

This all smells like the Death of Superman: Hero dies, others take up the mantle, the look changes, the original innevitably returns. *yawn*

Marvel needs to take a lesson from their Distinguished Competition:

Superman Red/Blue.
Azrael as Batman.
Artemis as Wonder Woman.
Even Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, which lasted for more than 10 years, STILL reverted back to the original.
Or Marvel's own failed "successors":
Rhodey as Iron Man.
ThunderStrike
Super Patriot as Captain America

In the history of comics, only the Flash has ever had a worthy successor.

Cap should never have died (if he did at all). And he certainly should NEVER be replaced, because he can't be. Any idiot could gain some physical prowess and carry a shield.

But there is only one Steve Rogers.

When did the House of Ideas become the House of Really Bad Ideas??:mad:

[Jake V]

Am I the only one who thinks that having a new Cap is a really lame idea? As a HUGE die hard Cap fan, even I am having a hard time staying loyal to the title lately- and I have every issue from #100 up! It's the LAST part of my collection I'd like to give up, but come ON!

This all smells like the Death of Superman: Hero dies, others take up the mantle, the look changes, the original innevitably returns. *yawn*

Marvel needs to take a lesson from their Distinguished Competition:

Superman Red/Blue.
Azrael as Batman.
Artemis as Wonder Woman.
Even Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, which lasted for more than 10 years, STILL reverted back to the original.
Or Marvel's own failed "successors":
Rhodey as Iron Man.
ThunderStrike
Super Patriot as Captain America

In the history of comics, only the Flash has ever had a worthy successor.

Cap should never have died (if he did at all). And he certainly should NEVER be replaced, because he can't be. Any idiot could gain some physical prowess and carry a shield.

But there is only one Steve Rogers.

When did the House of Ideas become the House of Really Bad Ideas??:mad:

It's so funny how you think it'll be permanent.

[XPac]

It's so funny how you think it'll be permanent.

Interesting... Brubaker thought it was funny when people were thinking the exact opposite.

[Jake V]

Interesting... Brubaker thought it was funny when people were thinking the exact opposite.

It's part of his job to say stuff like that.

[Capt USA]

Interesting... Brubaker thought it was funny when people were thinking the exact opposite.

with an upcoming movie in a couple of years, Marvel isn't dumb enough to keep him dead that long. They have to bow to the god that is the box office.

[Gemini]

It's so funny how you think it'll be permanent.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I never once thought it would be permanent. I just think the whole thing is a moronic waste of time. The whole exercise is pointless from a fan standpoint, I think. Of course sales will only increase in the short run and that's all that matters to the execs, right?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Interesting... Brubaker thought it was funny when people were thinking the exact opposite.

Not as funny as the current Marvel regime simultaneously insisting this will be a permanent change while undoing any and all progress in Spider-Man from the past 20 years AND them trying to pretend they have ANY say in the longterm futures of these serialized characters. Under Joe Quesada's "dead means dead" they insisted that Magneto and other dead characters would NOT be coming back, since then, Magneto has returned, Colossus has returned, Hawkeye and the Thing have died and returned, but this Captain America one, no, they're serious, and no matter WHO has the Editor in Chief job next, they'll DEFINITELY keep the wishes of the current regime, or stick with this plan forever, since that is what they did with the whole "permanent change" of the clone saga in the 90's that was completely undone before it was all over. I don't know if they intend to keep him dead, but I do know that what they want won't matter in 10, 15, or 20 years from now when there is a different creative team and Editor in Chief at Marvel.

[Will.S]

It's so funny how you think it'll be permanent.
Yeah and it's really not.

It looks to me that Tony is both honoring Cap's letter and helping Bucky get out of his current state of being lost. Becoming the new Cap should give Bucky a new sense of direction even if he's filling in an iconic positon.

As for the issue, I liked it the most out of all of the issues so far since it finally advances the Bucky as the new Cap idea. Plus a lot of other things are moving forward with Red Skull, Faustus, and Lukin. The fight between Bucky and Iron Man was really well depicted although you'd have to add me to the list of people who kind of groan when guys like Bucky are able to just rip off the mask but then again it's probably the easiest piece to take off so I'm glad that it wasn't the entire helmet.

Helmet wise Namor is understandable since he has super strength underwater and Cap at least had an indestructible shield when he swatted away at the helmet during CW. Oh and NICE use of anti-EMP device Ed, I can't tell you how annoying it became to see that used in every fight that had Iron Man incapacitated by that. The floating Bucky arm was definitely a particularly weird visual that made me go WTF but it's amazingly effective. Epting's art along with Guice is very good, still clean but Jackson's ink brush strokes are still very identifiable especially when he's drawing Iron Man as well.

[Dr. Chaos]

He flat out told Strange he wasn't interested in going after the New Avengers anymore. Perhaps he was lying... but if that's not the case, I think he's moving past the whole thing about hunting down other heroes. Which I would argue is a good thing, even though it does to some degree make the whole CW thing pointless.
As fun as it probably is for him, the self righteous "I know whats good for you more than you do" jerk thing can't go on forever if he wants everything to work out eventually.

I think Stark is slowly realizing that and trying to win people over gradually with his book of registration loopholes and mastery over looking the other way for friends.

And Gemini, if you're just going to crap all over the book despite all the things it does right, you probably should just drop it or learn that it's probably not a good idea to obsess about the future.

Yes, Steve might come back and more than likely will at whatever point in the future but who cares? Brubaker has proven you don't need him to have a successful Captain America ongoing and thats pretty damn impressive in itself, I doubt that'll change now that Bucky's wearing a costume.

[sodarobber]

Wow. As much as I believe Bucky deserves the mantle of Captain America I really have to say, the Winter Soldier sold out quicker than the I-Phone. Oh well I guess we'll find out what happens later on.

[XPac]

Not as funny as the current Marvel regime simultaneously insisting this will be a permanent change while undoing any and all progress in Spider-Man from the past 20 years AND them trying to pretend they have ANY say in the longterm futures of these serialized characters. Under Joe Quesada's "dead means dead" they insisted that Magneto and other dead characters would NOT be coming back, since then, Magneto has returned, Colossus has returned, Hawkeye and the Thing have died and returned, but this Captain America one, no, they're serious, and no matter WHO has the Editor in Chief job next, they'll DEFINITELY keep the wishes of the current regime, or stick with this plan forever, since that is what they did with the whole "permanent change" of the clone saga in the 90's that was completely undone before it was all over. I don't know if they intend to keep him dead, but I do know that what they want won't matter in 10, 15, or 20 years from now when there is a different creative team and Editor in Chief at Marvel.

I don't disagree at all.

The fact is, if Marvel is going to return Bucky from the dead (one of the FEW characters that people actually thought might stay dead), the whole notion of death at this point really can't be taken that seriously.

[princesa]

I love this book it is easily one of the three best out there. The art is tight and Brubaker has taken Bucky, the Falcon, the Widow and Sharon Carter and made them so very compelling. That aside Bucky nearly taking down Tony was ridiculous to me. Maybe before he got fully armored up I could buy, or if the emp worked, but merely snatching off his face plate...

[XPac]

I love this book it is easily one of the three best out there. The art is tight and Brubaker has taken Bucky, the Falcon, the Widow and Sharon Carter and made them so very compelling. That aside Bucky nearly taking down Tony was ridiculous to me. Maybe before he got fully armored up I could buy, or if the emp worked, but merely snatching off his face plate...

Yeah... I think going for the face plate will be the new "EMP" in regards to taking down Iron Man.

I can almost imagine a few dozen of Tony's old rogues kicking themselves and wondering why they didn't think of that.

[PaidHero]

It's just interesting that failing seems to be the only option some people allow to exist. There are many many many ways a story like this can go before it reaches its conclusion.

Also, on Bucky's age when he joined the Army - A lot of 16 year olds fought in WW1 and WW2, and the Army just looked the other way. That's in real life.

In the fictional Marvel U, Bucky was orphaned as an Army brat and raised on the base. When he was 16 he was trained just like a lot of soldiers his age were, but when they were considering him to be Cap's sidekick, they put him through the same combat training as Cap. In the issues we talked about this, it's remarked that he'd just got back from a stint training with the newly formed SAS. It's nowhere said that he was specifically trained to be an assassin. He was trained to be a special operative.

In the actual comics from the 1940s, Bucky was portrayed even younger, and generally with a machine gun blazing or a flame-thrower blasting Nazis, or occasionally, a HUGE BOMB.

I hardly think I've tarnished that image. ;)

Nope and I can't wait to see Bucky hold that shield with is robot arm! I for one love Bucky when I first read Marvel Essential Captain America Vol. 1 I couldnt help but think "What an awesome sidekick!" and now HE'S CAPTAIN AMERICA! I like that he's taken the role of Cap to sort of honor Steve. And that he knows its up to him and no one else. Come on no one else in the world can be Cap 'cept for Cap himself but who better to take the reins than Barnes, no one.

[XPac]

Nope and I can't wait to see Bucky hold that shield with is robot arm! I for one love Bucky when I first read Marvel Essential Captain America Vol. 1 I couldnt help but think "What an awesome sidekick!" and now HE'S CAPTAIN AMERICA! I like that he's taken the role of Cap to sort of honor Steve. And that he knows its up to him and no one else. Come on no one else in the world can be Cap 'cept for Cap himself but who better to take the reins than Barnes, no one.

Personally, I'd choose Clint Barton over Bucky. Which obviously was Tony's first plan too. But Clint understandably didn't want to play dress up to ease Tony's conscience.

[PaidHero]

Personally, I'd choose Clint Barton over Bucky. Which obviously was Tony's first plan too. But Clint understandably didn't want to play dress up to ease Tony's conscience.

I disagree, but Clint wouldn't have been the worst choice you're right about that and I'm glad he isn't I wonder what his "conditions" would have been with Tony.

[Ed Brubaker]

I love this book it is easily one of the three best out there. The art is tight and Brubaker has taken Bucky, the Falcon, the Widow and Sharon Carter and made them so very compelling. That aside Bucky nearly taking down Tony was ridiculous to me. Maybe before he got fully armored up I could buy, or if the emp worked, but merely snatching off his face plate...

Well, it's pretty obvious that Tony isn't trying to fight back, because he doesn't want to hurt Bucky. Also, he's using his cyborg arm to pull off the face-plate, which everyone seems to be overlooking. It's not like he's cracking the top of a tin can or something.

[jonwes]

Yeah, I think he had an easier time of it because Tony wasn't fighting back. However, I do think people breaking/taking off Tony's helmet lately is a bit extreme. It happened in Civil War, Spider-man and here. And that's just things I read. Did it get ripped off with his fight in Thor?

I totally see why it's done - it gives Tony a chance to show his emotions through his face but it really should be harder.

[Ed Brubaker]

You're reminding me of when Marv Wolfman told me the biggest problem with writing Teen Titans was always figuring out how Kid Flash couldn't have just run and solved everything while the rest of them were walking to the Titan-jet.

I was really happy with Bucky's takedown of Iron Man, even though Iron Man is barely fighting back. It showed Bucky using his will-power and skills, as well as his powerful robot arm.

[Will.S]

I was really happy with Bucky's takedown of Iron Man, even though Iron Man is barely fighting back. It showed Bucky using his will-power and skills, as well as his powerful robot arm.
I'll agree to that.

I'm sure that if Iron Man were playing for keeps Bucky would have been finished before the fight even began but by having Iron Man hold back and Bucky go full out you reach a nice middle ground.

[rwsmith]

I thought the scene was well done myself, Ed. Glad it was the cyborg arm that ripped the face-plate off, though.

By the way, any plans to enhance Bucky in any way? I mean, he doesn't quite have the right stature to be Cap. Isn't he only like 5'9"? And despite his incredible skills and nifty cybernetic arm, he's still just a normal human. If he's going to be the new Cap, shouldn't get some sort of enhancement (a la the Super Soldier Serum)?

Perhaps that's why he carries the gun, though.;)

[Dr. Chaos]

Isn't he only like 5'9"?
Height never stopped Wolverine from becoming one of the most imposing figures in the Marvel Universe.

[StoneGold]

Also, I really find it funny how you all assume Bucky will fail.

Because that's what people who put on Captain America costumes other than Steve Rogers do. Spirit of 76 died off the bat. Patriot apparently wore the suit for a few weeks, disappeared, got cancer and accidentally tried to kill Steve. The 50's Cap went all crazy. Roscoe died before he had a last name. Walker went all psychotic. Priest's Navy Anti-Cap was all evil.

[sodarobber]

Height never stopped Wolverine from becoming one of the most imposing figures in the Marvel Universe.

Very true, but Wolverine can keep coming back even after the worst of injuries thanks to his healing factor. Bucky doesn't have that luxury and short of a make shift Super-Soldier serum he's gonna have to watch himself. He may be one of the best assassins in the Marvel Universe, but that doesn't make him invincible.

[Ed Brubaker]

I thought the scene was well done myself, Ed. Glad it was the cyborg arm that ripped the face-plate off, though.

By the way, any plans to enhance Bucky in any way? I mean, he doesn't quite have th