Avengers: The Initiative #8 *Preview*

[Orion101]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/006799397.cfm
As you can see here the first part of "Killed in Action" starts right here. From here you already learn some things, aparently the 50 State Initiative was all Hank's idea, yet another in a long line of ideas that has blown up in his face. Also apparently the people of Stamford still don't want Camp Hammond in their town and yet the "heroes" still ignore and dismiss their opinions, even to the point of bringing Dragon Man into their town. Also a continuity note if you look closely you will notice that the squad of recruits bringing Dragon Man in is the same squad that appeared in New Warriors fighting the Zodiac. Namely Triathalon, Thor Girl, Cloud 9, Hardball, and Komodo you can see them more cleary on the promotional art that was aired about this issue on Marvel's site here http://www.marvelpics.co.uk/news/comicstories.1972.Initiative_Initiation%3A_Ant-Men%2C_Goliaths%2C_Etc%7Edot%7E

Talk about good use of cross series continuity.

[bulbasteve]

On the one hand I'm glad someone finally decided to show the most important part of CW that has never been shown (well that and what the hell Cap was doing all that time). But really...PYM!? Now I see why Stark cares about The Order so much :p

[XPac]

So the Initiative was Pyms brainchild.

Well, that explains a lot actually.

[GRANT!]

Hanks a Skrull. Or maybe not. Who cares?

[Samuraixsithlord]

I'll be on the look out for anyone with Green Eyes because as we all know the Skrull are to stupid to remember eye color when they shapeshift


please know that the above was mentioned in a sarcastic tone

[Monty_Cristo]

can't wait. it feels like i've been waiting forever. can't believe that Reed snickered at "G.I.Ant-Man." this is the guy who built H.E.R.B.I.E. :D

I'll be on the look out for anyone with Green Eyes because as we all know the Skrull are to stupid to remember eye color when they shapeshift


please know that the above was mentioned in a sarcastic tone

Eric O'Grady has green eyes.

Hanks a Skrull. Or maybe not. Who cares?

Reed is definately suspect. why do all of his facial expressions look menacing?

[Tobias Drake]

Man, I can't wait to see KIA in action.

[Monty_Cristo]

it's too bad that no one has an advanced copy of this issue. i haven't bought a comic book in 2 weeks. i'm starving, here.

[CaptainCanada]

Also apparently the people of Stamford still don't want Camp Hammond in their town
Some of the people. Some people are bound to disagree with anything. We know Sharpe's people are strongly in favour of the Initiative.

Anyway, I note that Cassie is listed in the character recap on the first page; I can't wait to see her trade blows with Eric O'Grady.

[XPac]

Some of the people. Some people are bound to disagree with anything. We know Sharpe's people are strongly in favour of the Initiative.

Anyway, I note that Cassie is listed in the character recap on the first page; I can't wait to see her trade blows with Eric O'Grady.

I'm sure a LOT of the public support the Initiative... but it's not suprising that those living right next door to it would feel differently. It's really a great big target.

Most people support the existance of prisons... but how many people want one built next door to them?

[CaptainCanada]

I'm sure a LOT of the public support the Initiative... but it's not suprising that those living right next door to it would feel differently. It's really a great big target.

Most people support the existance of prisons... but how many people want one built next door to them?
People have a right to object; I'm just pointing out that the crowd isn't a representation about how everyone feels.

As to the prison allegory, the prison has to go somewhere, so NIMBY types are just hypocrites.

[Vaal]

We know Sharpe's people are strongly in favour of the Initiative.
Sharpe's people are reptilian with ribbed chins and also support taking Earth as their birthright.

[Monty_Cristo]

Some of the people. Some people are bound to disagree with anything. We know Sharpe's people are strongly in favour of the Initiative.

Anyway, I note that Cassie is listed in the character recap on the first page; I can't wait to see her trade blows with Eric O'Grady.

there's a preview of that fight up at Marvel.com...

http://www.marvel.com/news/comics.1972.Initiative_Initiation%3A_Ant-Men%2C_Goliaths%2C_Etc%7Edot%7e

way at the bottom

[bulbasteve]

Some of the people. Some people are bound to disagree with anything. We know Sharpe's people are strongly in favour of the Initiative.

And yet San Fran wants it's own branch of The Order. Guess they really are always ahead of the curve :), I bet those damn Stamford guys don't want their heroes gay married either :p

[Monty_Cristo]

And yet San Fran wants it's own branch of The Order. Guess they really are always ahead of the curve :), I bet those damn Stamford guys don't want their heroes gay married either :p

they seem like the torch and pitchfork type of crowd. but you've brought up another point. have we seen a gay or lesbian recruit, yet? i haven't really been paying all that close of attention. i wouldn't want Slott to make a big deal about it, either way.

[bulbasteve]

they seem like the torch and pitchfork type of crowd. but you've brought up another point. have we seen a gay or lesbian recruit, yet? i haven't really been paying all that close of attention. i wouldn't want Slott to make a big deal about it, either way.

Herm! Well those two Young Avengers were in The Initiative till Slott had to retcon them out. But Muholland Black from The Order was just revealed to be gay this issue. (they kinda count right? Or is Tony just awesome?)

I don't know, it's not like the list of gay marvel heroes is a huge one, just name em all and see which ones are in The Initiative :D

[Will.S]

I like how Dan put in the Ant-Man stuff into the framework.

Lot's of good Hank Pym stuff and it's cool to see his end of the contributions to the Initiative. Looking forward to seeing MVP wailing on everyone as KIA (with the tactigon no less) although I'm fearing some of the deaths.

Casseli's art is looking better and better with each issue especially thanks to the coloring incrementally improving as well.

[Monty_Cristo]

Herm! Well those two Young Avengers were in The Initiative till Slott had to retcon them out. But Muholland Black from The Order was just revealed to be gay this issue. (they kinda count right? Or is Tony just awesome?)

I don't know, it's not like the list of gay marvel heroes is a huge one, just name em all and see which ones are in The Initiative :D

i was referring more to brand new characters. Mulholland sort of counts although she never trained at Camp Hammond. i'm just surprised that none of then new recruits were. of course, there hasn't been much romance in the book anyways.

[Monty_Cristo]

I like how Dan put in the Ant-Man stuff into the framework.

Lot's of good Hank Pym stuff and it's cool to see his end of the contributions to the Initiative. Looking forward to seeing MVP wailing on everyone as KIA (with the tactigon no less) although I'm fearing some of the deaths.

Casseli's art is looking better and better with each issue especially thanks to the coloring incrementally improving as well.

i've always liked CAsseli's work. i think he draws a decent ant-man armor, as well. it's pretty much exactly how it was in the series but with softer colors. i wonder what Crusader and Eric will look like out of costume.

[Brett P]

Herm! Well those two Young Avengers were in The Initiative till Slott had to retcon them out.

Hmm? Retcon them out?

[CaptainCanada]

Hmm? Retcon them out?
Depending on whether or not you believe that specific aspect of She-Hulk #21 should be taken seriously, Wiccan and Hulkling were "Alpha" duplicates from another dimension when they registered (an idea which doesn't make any sense given the nature of said dimension, because Wiccan and Hulklings' respective natures would seem to bar the idea of them even having non-powered versions in another reality).

[Brett P]

Is that the issue of She Hulk that was supposed to have "fixed all the continuity problems"?

I did actually order it but for some reason I never got it and I got either the issue before or after instead...

I never liked the idea of the YA being in the Initiative anyway, Stature makes sense cos she switched to the pro reg side...I never liked that either though.

[StoneGold]

Herm! Well those two Young Avengers were in The Initiative till Slott had to retcon them out. But Muholland Black from The Order was just revealed to be gay this issue. (they kinda count right? Or is Tony just awesome?)

I don't know, it's not like the list of gay marvel heroes is a huge one, just name em all and see which ones are in The Initiative :D

Depends what you consider "The Initiative." Because in theory, it's pretty much damn near everyone, minus Daredevil and the New Avengers. But if we are talking about people on-base, you still seem to have separate groups. You've got the main cast, who are the total rookies. You've got the main backdrop characters, who are the guys who have been around for a while, but still need the training, like Rage. Then you have the guys who are there to just touch up on their skills, like Stingray, who you see in a couple panels. And then you've got the black ops team.

[bulbasteve]

Depending on whether or not you believe that specific aspect of She-Hulk #21 should be taken seriously, Wiccan and Hulkling were "Alpha" duplicates from another dimension when they registered (an idea which doesn't make any sense given the nature of said dimension, because Wiccan and Hulklings' respective natures would seem to bar the idea of them even having non-powered versions in another reality).

Slott mentioned it again in the "state of the initiative" podcast. Though oddly he said it was because the YA were showing up in Fallen Son....which I don't think makes sense since I thought only Hawkeye-girl and Patriot were actually showing up at the anti-reg stuff (and all of them were at the funeral).

Now I'm totally confused ....

[Karthak]

they seem like the torch and pitchfork type of crowd. but you've brought up another point. have we seen a gay or lesbian recruit, yet? i haven't really been paying all that close of attention. i wouldn't want Slott to make a big deal about it, either way.

Doesn't the US armed forces have that stupid "don't ask don't tell" policy?

[Tobias Drake]

Doesn't the US armed forces have that stupid "don't ask don't tell" policy?

They also have policies against DIs making time with recruits, but we've seen how that's turned out. ;)

[Monty_Cristo]

Slott mentioned it again in the "state of the initiative" podcast. Though oddly he said it was because the YA were showing up in Fallen Son....which I don't think makes sense since I thought only Hawkeye-girl and Patriot were actually showing up at the anti-reg stuff (and all of them were at the funeral).

Now I'm totally confused ....

well Cassie is obviously still around. i wonder if she noticed her dissappearing friends.

[spidervenom]

I cant wait for this issue, the return of antman!! Also you dont think that o'grady is the dead body, do you. :(

[Monty_Cristo]

I cant wait for this issue, the return of antman!! Also you dont think that o'grady is the dead body, do you. :(

he better not be! i know that he probably deserves the die but that's the fun of it. he's a deuchebag with a guardian angel. plus, the body in the preview didn't really look like what i'd expect of a dead Ant-Man. he wasn't wearing armor, at least. it was someone covered by a red sheet. it could be Dragon Lord, since he wears a red "robe" as part of his costume. Pym refers to him as a "recruit." that would be strange for Pym to refer to him that way. he knows who Eric is.

[Wessner]

it was someone covered by a red sheet.
When I saw that I immediately thought of the red shirts from Star Trek. This dead recruit could easily a new character introduced just to be killed off. Of course, even if that's true, it doesn't mean anyone else is safe.

[Spiffy]

Herm! Well those two Young Avengers were in The Initiative till Slott had to retcon them out. But Muholland Black from The Order was just revealed to be gay this issue. (they kinda count right? Or is Tony just awesome?)

I don't know, it's not like the list of gay marvel heroes is a huge one, just name em all and see which ones are in The Initiative :D
I wonder.

I mean obviously Mulholland has slept with girls--cheated on one girl with another too--but they didn't pin her down as exclusive. It would be JUST like current Marvel to have a California Superteam with a girl that swings both ways.

[PunisherFan]

When I saw that I immediately thought of the red shirts from Star Trek. This dead recruit could easily a new character introduced just to be killed off. Of course, even if that's true, it doesn't mean anyone else is safe.

i think a bunch of the guys in the book are supposed to be killed off, not just this one in the red cape.

[Brett P]

Eric O Grady getting giant powers sorta ruins him imo, takes away the whole "sneaky" aspect of him.

i think a bunch of the guys in the book are supposed to be killed off, not just this one in the red cape.

Anyone placing bets as to who will get killed?

Will Hardball get what's coming to him?

To be honest, none of the recruits have been fleshed out that much, so if like me this is your first exposure to the likes of Thor Girl, Ultra Girl, Rage, Justice, Slapstick and whoever else is there, then there's not much of a sting if they bite the bullet. I only really care for the new characters introduced here, since I've been following their story from the beginning and they're the only recruits have been fleshed out enough to care about. Hardball, Komodo, Cloud 9, Trauma and MVP/Scarlet Spiders...they're the only ones I'd be worried about losing at these point. Actually, scratch the Spiders...they're a bit lame. And we havn't seen Trauma for a little while. And Cloud 9 isn't really that great..lol

Ok, I'm just hoping that Hardball and Komodo are safe.

[Vaal]

Oh. Yay. More pointless character death. Woo.

[elaniel]

Ok I have to ask. What IS this book?! It started off something I loved, the shock death of a character and the "depowering" of Armor, but then this is what happened....

The first issue was amazing, and loved the idea about Initiative/Avenger training and doing their first missions. Then it suddenly went flip-side and now seems to be about the instructors with the trainees as back characters. Then they throw in some random ones we've never really seen before in the book (Thor Girl for example) and then go to Scarlet Spiders, to then go back and do an annual on the original trainees, then now go back to the Scarlet Spiders, throw Stature in for kicks, and then have Wonderman and Iron Man in this issue.

And having the trainees graduate? We didnt see some of them for more than 3 issues. O.o

And I agree about YA continuity, it seems a bit off. Hawkeye and Patriot are still anti-reg, but what about Hulkling and Wiccan?

[HeckBoy]

Ok I have to ask. What IS this book?! It started off something I loved, the shock death of a character and the "depowering" of Armor, but then this is what happened....

The first issue was amazing, and loved the idea about Initiative/Avenger training and doing their first missions. Then it suddenly went flip-side and now seems to be about the instructors with the trainees as back characters. Then they throw in some random ones we've never really seen before in the book (Thor Girl for example) and then go to Scarlet Spiders, to then go back and do an annual on the original trainees, then now go back to the Scarlet Spiders, throw Stature in for kicks, and then have Wonderman and Iron Man in this issue.

And having the trainees graduate? We didnt see some of them for more than 3 issues. O.o

And I agree about YA continuity, it seems a bit off. Hawkeye and Patriot are still anti-reg, but what about Hulkling and Wiccan?
So far I'm sticking with this book to see what happens. However, I agree with you on the fact that it's sort of all over the place. After I picked up the first issue, I thought the recruits were going to be the main characters and everything was going to revolve around them. But now, it seems more about the conspiracies and the Camp admin than anything else. I decided to pick up this series b/c I liked the premise of the camp training young heroes, but I guess it was presumptuous of me to think that was all they were going to show. Let's hope after all this K.I.A. business, they'll shift the focus back onto the [new] recruits

[Machinedude]

My guess is that we will be losing 2 of the scarlet spiders for sure.

[Exo]

My guess is that we will be losing 2 of the scarlet spiders for sure.

Two is not enough (clones are stupid).

[CaptainCanada]

Hawkeye and Patriot are still anti-reg, but what about Hulkling and Wiccan?
No, Patriot and Hawkeye registered to attend the funeral.

[bulbasteve]

Did we actually ever see Wiccan and Hulkling with the NA? Why would he retcon out two characters who didn't actually need to be >>

[Cthulhudrew]

Hulkling, at least, was in issue one or two. He's with the group that attacks the Hydra ship.

[Monty_Cristo]

Eric O Grady getting giant powers sorta ruins him imo, takes away the whole "sneaky" aspect of him.

i dunno. i was very lukewarm about the idea at first. and then i saw the preview panel of him actually using his new powers. Eric can still shrink and be sneaky. it's just now that he can also grow big and abuse his powers as a bully. i think it's kind of cool. he even seems to have become a better fighter (something he definately wasn't in his series).


Anyone placing bets as to who will get killed?

whoever is redundant or difficult to write, probably. i can't imagine Dragon Lord staying around very long. he would be much older than the current recruits/unlikely to get much of the spotlight. i'm also putting money on one of the original recruits getting killed; possibly Trauma (since he had something to do with MVP's death). otherwise, i'd say that Komodo is a possible candidate because of her inferiority complex.

Will Hardball get what's coming to him?

i figure that S.P.I.N tech will play a part in whatever his fate is.

And we havn't seen Trauma for a little while. And Cloud 9 isn't really that great..lol

Ok, I'm just hoping that Hardball and Komodo are safe.


Cloud-9 will be great; i'm sure of it. she probably won't catch on until she goes through puberty, though. as for Hardball and Komodo, they seem like tragedy-fodder to me.

[bulbasteve]

Also, how long was all this CW stuff going on for anyway? In CW7 he says something like "do you think we have been sitting on our hands these few months" when talking about the Order and Clor and stuff coming in to help em'. In this it says it was a few weeks between Stamford and the full out Mighty Avengers existing. Do we really need to slide the timeline SO quickly?

[mikekerr3]

No, Patriot and Hawkeye registered to attend the funeral.

that doesn't mean that they are pro-reg just that they submitted to registration. Spider-man registered as did the Falcon neither of them is pro-reg , just registered,

[Monty_Cristo]

rumour is that Ultimate Geldoff is making his first appearance in the regular marvel universe this Friday. i'm just guessing but i think he's the same characters as in this sketch (entitled "Proton")...

http://shutter07.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/009/77/F4/54/40/Mx+km6QTgMagtiQhq9+7OcOB3ouU1dsy0300.jpg
http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/17/008/3C/DA/1D/CE/AZtPIJOz8vW9fL8NxcbSXhTp0gqTSI7y0300.jpg

VS

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=90722352131%2041

for those who don't know, Geldoff was a really really lame character that Bendis created for Ultimate Spider-man. he was a latverian orphan who could make things explode by concentrating on them. he basically used this talent to blow up cars to entertain his american classmates.
----

oh and you can meet some of the other new recruits here...
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.2135.Initiative_Initiation%3A_The_New _Recruits

i've gotta laugh because i actually used Red-9 as part of one of my earlier dream rosters just because he's a complete wanker.

[Mark_S]

I wonder what the real reason is that superhuman crime is down so much. I find it hard to believe that mere months after training a few recruits and filling the US with grade z heroes that the supervillains have all just given up and gone home.

Mark_S

[Dermie]

Well, the fact that there are more hero teams out there now, and that they are better organized and co-ordinated would cause a lot of the villains to lay low for a bit. It has also led to a lot of villains fleeing the country (which was part of the reason for the creation of the new Omega Flight--to deal with American villains fleeing into Canada). Less villains in the country equals less superhuman crime in the country.

A number of villains have also been recruited into the Initiative, so that cuts down on the crime rate too.

[Kefky]

They've been saying that civil war, though. So it's more like the Initiative managed to keep the crime rate down.

Of course, not that that stops supervillains from appearing in every issue of every book marvel publishes. *cough* But suspension of disbelief 'n all that.

[Monty_Cristo]

They've been saying that civil war, though. So it's more like the Initiative managed to keep the crime rate down.

Of course, not that that stops supervillains from appearing in every issue of every book marvel publishes. *cough* But suspension of disbelief 'n all that.

at the start of Civil War, the crime rate was down because the anti-side had been forced to become proactive in attacking supervillains. rememberthe severely beaten up Grim Reaper and Vulture? Maria Hill even commented about this being one of the causes of the reduced crime rate.

[bulbasteve]

at the start of Civil War, the crime rate was down because the anti-side had been forced to become proactive in attacking supervillains. rememberthe severely beaten up Grim Reaper and Vulture? Maria Hill even commented about this being one of the causes of the reduced crime rate.

She only mentioned how many supervillians they have captured and that Cap was not working alone, nothing about the crimerate. The crimerate wasn't mentioned till ish 6 by Tony.

[Monty_Cristo]

She only mentioned how many supervillians they have captured and that Cap was not working alone, nothing about the crimerate. The crimerate wasn't mentioned till ish 6 by Tony.

still it's common sense. more proactive heroes = reduced crime rate. the villains were not sure what to make of the civil war at that point. and it wasn't just Cap's group. the Thunderbolts were actively hunting villains as well.

[Kefky]

Yea, and the anti-reg probably had a hand in it too. But my point is that cw was the catalyst.

[bulbasteve]

still it's common sense. more proactive heroes = reduced crime rate. the villains were not sure what to make of the civil war at that point. and it wasn't just Cap's group. the Thunderbolts were actively hunting villains as well.

Well that is certainly a reason why Tony doesn't hunt down the NA as actively. Hell it is certainly Stark at his most capitalistic with competition in who can do better in law enforcement...

But. They said it was the lowest since Eisenhower, so this had to have included just regular criminals too so not even traditional crime that supers stop. Tony was probably not just talking about a cop on every corner but also about the taking away of the practical anarchy that was the pre-CW street.

Plus the fact that it was stated again in one of the books recently about the low crime rate. Anyone remember?