The Order #6 *Spoilers*

[drwho]

The art was great this issue for the most part. This issue gives us some back ground on Supernaut the parapalegic in the robot suit. This issue I thought was somewhat of a disappointment because I had been hoping to see more action with the Black Dhalias than bringing more players into the story. Also I would have preferred to see Supernaut get more panel time than what was shown here. Anyway Supernaut and another member of the Order come across a test ground of Shadow. Supernaut and the other member of the team who I can't recall fight some monsters and in the process the suit is burnt out and Supernaut has to leave the suit. Turns out Mul Holland was a lover of one of the other Black Dhalias. It also appears that they are working for the Man from Shadow. I really wasn't fond of Tony's characterization this issue. Also they throw in Namor at the end somehow making all the oceans on the west coast form a wall of waves a long the California coast. I am glad to see Namor, but his actions seem a little way too extreme here. He could probably talk to one of the numerous hero groups, yet here he wants to be taken their leader. I just think there is too much Namor in the recent months and this portrayal so far seems so far out there to me. Especially considering where Namor was last seen in his own mini. You would expect some type of down time before going to this type of extreme. I really think this has been the worst issue of the bunch. Way too much going on in one issue.

[StoneGold]

Especially considering where Namor was last seen in his own mini.

Wait, making giant wall of water is more extreme than co-conspiring with Dr. Doom?

[drwho]

I was figuring we would see some down time with Namor. So he joins Doom and then knocks on the west coast demanding to speak with their leader after having just had Atlantis destroyed and his people spread across the world in hiding. Seems way too much too soon.

[Omega Alpha]

This book is pretty good. Loved Milo's story, though my favorite character so far is Aralune. But I wonder who the Namor thing fits with what happened in Submariner?

[StoneGold]

I was figuring we would see some down time with Namor. So he joins Doom and then knocks on the west coast demanding to speak with their leader after having just had Atlantis destroyed and his people spread across the world in hiding. Seems way too much too soon.

I don't understand that. If you just had to blow up your city and spread your people throughout the world as a sleeper cell, and had Dr. Doom backing your play, would you wait?

[mikekerr3]

Wait, making giant wall of water is more extreme than co-conspiring with Dr. Doom?

The wall of water is an aggressive act. Conspiring with Doom is in self defense against a a more dangerous enemy.

[TotalWorldDomination]

This book is pretty good. Loved Milo's story, though my favorite character so far is Aralune. But I wonder who the Namor thing fits with what happened in Submariner?

I love Aralune. I hope she gets more page-space. I'd imagine that now that Namor has Doom whispering sweet evil nothings into his ear that he's become a pawn in a much larger game that Victor Von D is playing (if doom is even really doom right now).

The wall of water is an aggressive act. Conspiring with Doom is in self defense against a more dangerous enemy.

It's way too aggressive if you ask me. this is some Old School Namor-type stuff- things he hasn't done in years. I'd wager this new more aggressive namor is part of a Doom-inspired plan.

[XPac]

I love Aralune. I hope she gets more page-space. I'd imagine that now that Namor has Doom whispering sweet evil nothings into his ear that he's become a pawn in a much larger game that Victor Von D is playing (if doom is even really doom right now).



It's way too aggressive if you ask me. this is some Old School Namor-type stuff- things he hasn't done in years. I'd wager this new more aggressive namor is part of a Doom-inspired plan.

That's kind of disappointing if it's true.

No disrespect to Doom, but Namor should be at the level where he's more a player himself than a pawn. Old Namor I can understand... but the current one seems smart enough to hold his own. But I guess we'll see.

[bulbasteve]

This book is pretty good. Loved Milo's story, though my favorite character so far is Aralune. But I wonder who the Namor thing fits with what happened in Submariner?

Well he mentions that Atlantis was destroyed and his people are all refugees...so..umm...after :p

[Volk1]

Another great issue. I don't know about Fraction on PWJ which is up and down but here he continually to impresses me.

That Henry/Tony interaction was too good as ws the opening interview sequence with Milo.


What this book needs is more Veda though! More Veda!!!

And fkn NAMOR! Talk about guest appearance!!!:cool:

[Arilou]

Namor might be a skrull.

Just sayin'.

[XPac]

Namor might be a skrull.

Just sayin'.

That's a good point. I don't think the Namor we saw in the Namor series is a Skrull, but that's not to say that at other points in time a Skrull couldn't have impersonated him. Like now for example.

When you consider the possibility that Skrulls aren't taking over a person's role 100% of the time, it makes it really hard to figure out who might be a skrull and who isn't.

[StoneGold]

The wall of water is an aggressive act. Conspiring with Doom is in self defense against a a more dangerous enemy.

Conspiring with Doom is self defense? Seriously? How often has Doom been a reactive agent?

[Kefky]

Loved it as always, but the scene with Namor at the end did feel kinda weird. I mean, wasn't he supposed to be hiding? Why's he doing a frontal attack like that so soon?

Still, though, they're not ignoring what happened in the mini, so it'll probably be explained next issue. Milo is yet another awesome addition to an already exceptionally awesome cast of characters.

[Omega Alpha]

Well he mentions that Atlantis was destroyed and his people are all refugees...so..umm...after :p

What I meant is with the ending, with Namor hidden and in Latveria working with Doom.

[TotalWorldDomination]

What I meant is with the ending, with Namor hidden and in Latveria working with Doom.

I'd bet that those giant domes on the beach are going to be Doom-Tech.


Also, who thinks that the team will end up in San Fran after this arc?

[mikekerr3]

Conspiring with Doom is self defense? Seriously? How often has Doom been a reactive agent?


He is teaming with Doom against more malign threats The MU US government and Shield both of which are capable of, and guilty of, genocide. The Wall of water is a deterrent against a rogue state.

[Tobias Drake]

Namor's back. And he's being a dick. What. A. Surprise. :p

Okay, seriously, although the series seems like it's being pulled in several directions at once, I like it; it kinda reflects the chaotic, hectic mess that California's team is involved with. I would like to know how the hell Tony Stark has so much free time to just sit in California shooting the breeze with celebrities. This characterization didn't really work for me.

[mikekerr3]

Namor's back. And he's being a dick. What. A. Surprise. :p

Okay, seriously, although the series seems like it's being pulled in several directions at once, I like it; it kinda reflects the chaotic, hectic mess that California's team is involved with. I would like to know how the hell Tony Stark has so much free time to just sit in California shooting the breeze with celebrities. This characterization didn't really work for me.

I think he is drunk

[Tobias Drake]

After how he's been established as "creepy business-minded guy taking the weight of the world on his shoulders, straining under the pressure, but refusing to let it go" in all the other comics, seeing him as "cheerful happy guy" here just seems discontinuous. It reminds me of Spider-Man during Back in Black, where he was grumpy, moody, and threatening people in Amazing, while everywhere else he was happy and cracking wise like he's always done.

[jonwes]

I found Tony's depiction here very confusing as well. If anything, Tony is probably worrying about MORE things than he should be.

[bulbasteve]

Yeah it does seem odd, but I like the idea suggested umm here? that he is trying to get HH to step up. Maybe he learned from Pete in CW and choose a better way to try and get em to step up than to lie then punch them in the face :p

[Kefky]

I think Tony's just trying to stay positive to make Henry and Pepper feel better about their jobs. Besides, he's among friends, it'd just look weird if he acted all emo around them just to make them feel bad.

Also, he blew up at Henry in this very issue when he started going about him not giving a damn about the team. And there was also that scene in an earlier issue where they're talking on the phone about all the problems they're having, and Tony looks like shit.

[StoneGold]

It reminds me of Spider-Man during Back in Black, where he was grumpy, moody, and threatening people in Amazing, while everywhere else he was happy and cracking wise like he's always done.

Except much like was explained during Back in Black, we are quite often different things to different people. When dealing with a crisis situation, we often behave differently when by ourselves then when dealing with others. It's a story right now in the Iron Man book that Stark is trying to do too many things at once. He has his good days and his bad. Or in this case, his good minutes and his bad. He's micromanaging to the point of oblivion.

[mikekerr3]

Except much like was explained during Back in Black, we are quite often different things to different people. When dealing with a crisis situation, we often behave differently when by ourselves then when dealing with others. It's a story right now in the Iron Man book that Stark is trying to do too many things at once. He has his good days and his bad. Or in this case, his good minutes and his bad. He's micromanaging to the point of oblivion.

According to the last issue he hasn't been going to his AA meetings. That is a recipe for disaster in the real world, for anyone. With the pressure he is under its even worse.

As much as i despise what he has become, I have always admired the part of Tony battling his addiction, its been played pretty straight by Marvel. I don't think he will stay on the wagon long unless something changes.

[StoneGold]

According to the last issue he hasn't been going to his AA meetings. That is a recipe for disaster in the real world, for anyone. With the pressure he is under its even worse.

As much as i despise what he has become, I have always admired the part of Tony battling his addiction, its been played pretty straight by Marvel. I don't think he will stay on the wagon long unless something changes.

The thing is, he has completely replaced his addiction with being in control of everything. The Knuaghs are addressing this in his own title. There's no doubt, Tony is a house of cards. He's taking on far too much responsibility for any one man.

[sgt pepper]

No disrespect to Doom, but Namor should be at the level where he's more a player himself than a pawn.

Oh, you have just disrespected Doom! How dare you!

[bulbasteve]

I think Tony's just trying to stay positive to make Henry and Pepper feel better about their jobs. Besides, he's among friends, it'd just look weird if he acted all emo around them just to make them feel bad.

Also, he blew up at Henry in this very issue when he started going about him not giving a damn about the team. And there was also that scene in an earlier issue where they're talking on the phone about all the problems they're having, and Tony looks like shit.

Pff, well sure if you want to base things on "books" and "facts" :p

Though it IS odd he is visiting a dang school and buying their new HQ in person. Maybe he is just on what his version of a vacation is...

[bfrank]

The thing is, he has completely replaced his addiction with being in control of everything. The Knuaghs are addressing this in his own title. There's no doubt, Tony is a house of cards. He's taking on far too much responsibility for any one man.

which mike's point about missing AA meetings even more valid......

[Jack]

Looking back at precisely how Tony and Henry used to socialise, as depicted in issue one, I can very much see Tony falling back into old ways when interacting with him. It's not like he put a work colleague or super colleague in charge of the Order, he put his old wingman in charge of it.

[mikekerr3]

Looking back at precisely how Tony and Henry used to socialise, as depicted in issue one, I can very much see Tony falling back into old ways when interacting with him. It's not like he put a work colleague or super colleague in charge of the Order, he put his old wingman in charge of it.

Have they ever said who Tony's sponsor is? That person has a real challenge!

[Tobias Drake]

Have they ever said who Tony's sponsor is? That person has a real challenge!

Isn't it Henry?

[bulbasteve]

According to the last issue he hasn't been going to his AA meetings. That is a recipe for disaster in the real world, for anyone. With the pressure he is under its even worse.

As much as i despise what he has become, I have always admired the part of Tony battling his addiction, its been played pretty straight by Marvel. I don't think he will stay on the wagon long unless something changes.

It was only hinted at, he brushed aside the question and joked about being in meetings all day long, he never actually said he wasn't going. Who even knows if Tony eeeever went to meetings, I mean HH and him lived on different coasts one assumes (sides umm west coast avengers? I got no idea about timelines >>)

[mikekerr3]

To get off AA for a while. What is the Moral difference between Namor's Wall of water off the Cosast and the US fleet around Atlantis and Wakanda. Bot are a threat.

[bulbasteve]

To get off AA for a while. What is the Moral difference between Namor's Wall of water off the Cosast and the US fleet around Atlantis and Wakanda. Bot are a threat.

Namor is crazy and in cahoots with Dr. Doom. And those nations are really effected by it even less than your usual "big stick" in diplomacy, they don't actually like...go places or have economies based on trade. And only the Atlantis example was an actual blockade.

[Tobias Drake]

Namor is crazy and in cahoots with Dr. Doom. And those nations are really effected by it even less than your usual "big stick" in diplomacy, they don't actually like...go places or have economies based on trade. And only the Atlantis example was an actual blockade.

I thought it was S.H.I.E.L.D. monitoring stations to keep track of Atlanteans coming and going because Namor clearly wasn't. At least, I think that was the deal they were trying to broker; they came with a military blockade to make sure that he didn't just say "Screw you" and ignore the problem.

[bulbasteve]

I thought it was S.H.I.E.L.D. monitoring stations to keep track of Atlanteans coming and going because Namor clearly wasn't. At least, I think that was the deal they were trying to broker; they came with a military blockade to make sure that he didn't just say "Screw you" and ignore the problem.

Yeah it was SHIELD and not the U.S., and I don't really remember what the particular terms were. But of course it was totally different since you know Tony spent the entire time trying to avert a war :D

[mikekerr3]

I thought it was S.H.I.E.L.D. monitoring stations to keep track of Atlanteans coming and going because Namor clearly wasn't. At least, I think that was the deal they were trying to broker; they came with a military blockade to make sure that he didn't just say "Screw you" and ignore the problem.

A military blockade is a act of war in itself by international law. The blockade is a threat as is the Fleet off Wakanda, The wall of water is a reply in kind.

Tony may have been working to stop the war, but how could he negotiate with someone who thought, no make that knew, that he would lie and beray his friends. If the person sent to negotiate with you can't be trusted to make an honest agreement why negotiate. The stakes were too high for Namor to trust that it wasn't a lie "this time". Trusting Stark/the US Could have ended with his whole race dead. There might have been a different result if the Shield negotiator wasn't a known liar.

As for aligning himself with Doom, they have a common enemy who seeks them harm. Wars always make strange partnerships. The US allied with Stalin.

[bulbasteve]

A military blockade is a act of war in itself by international law. The blockade is a threat as is the Fleet off Wakanda, The wall of water is a reply in kind.

Tony may have been working to stop the war, but how could he negotiate with someone who thought, no make that knew, that he would lie and beray his friends. If the person sent to negotiate with you can't be trusted to make an honest agreement why negotiate. The stakes were too high for Namor to trust that it wasn't a lie "this time". Trusting Stark/the US Could have ended with his whole race dead. There might have been a different result if the Shield negotiator wasn't a known liar.

As for aligning himself with Doom, they have a common enemy who seeks them harm. Wars always make strange partnerships. The US allied with Stalin.

whaaa? How is a Namor/Doom partnership strange? How exactly could Stark or the U.S. who...oh I don't know...always partners up with Doom! :D All Namor has done is proved them right that he is still bat**** crazy. If you replace Starks name for Namors and your post still works.

[jackolover]

It's way too aggressive if you ask me. this is some Old School Namor-type stuff- things he hasn't done in years. I'd wager this new more aggressive namor is part of a Doom-inspired plan.

I'm not happy with this new Namor. I liked the CW inspired monarch, who acted like a Managing Director. This one completely retcons the CW and Submariner depictions, and makes him into King Namor, and his dialogue makes no sense. 'Take me to your leader'? Then one of the Order steps forward and says 'That'll be me', and then where does Namor go? He has a little throw down with 6 heros and slinks back into the mud? Why is Namor comfronting the Mayor of San Francisco? Are there more Atlanteans in her constituency than she realises? It looks like the giant wave wall is just around one peninsula of the bay area, and other side is unaffected. This wave has no affect at all, because if it is there to protect that peninsula, then nukes can still attack it from above, so it's less than useless.

[DeadXMan]

Those spheres do look like Doom tech to me.
I wonder if this was a choreographed distraction to sneak the Venom Bomb in?

I'm waiting to see how Namor will handle San Fran poltics
he's not the most liberail guy in the MU you know

[Fatguy]

SERIOUSLY, I hate that I love this book :(

I'm so INVESTED! And not enough people are reading...

This issue was my favorite of the week by far, I was really liking Supernaut before this issue, and now I LOVE the dude. HH was pretty badass this issue as well, I really liked the confrontation between him and Mulholland. It was intense.

[bulbasteve]

Do we know who is doing the interviews? By the metal discussion this ish' I guess we should assume it's Tony, but two issues back Veda asked "how many times did you save the world today?" and you gotta figure Tony did about 500 times.

MYSTERIES!

[Joe Acro]

I found this issue very enjoyable. It's a focus issue on Supernaut (my favorite of the bunch), plus there's neat stuff with the villains and Namor. I love when Namor does neat stuff.

It's the best thing I read this week.

[Porcelain]

SERIOUSLY, I hate that I love this book :(

I'm so INVESTED! And not enough people are reading...

They're not? Is it doing badly?

Just vacuumed up all 6 issues. First was a bit rocky and stiff but really enjoyed the others. Love how fallible & flawed everyone is, how intrinsic their powers are to their story and the celebrity parody (who wants to bet Aralune shaves her head or Veda has a 'very close' brother?) :D It's just one big powder keg you just want to keep watching. Really nice to see Mulholland's lesbianism dealt with so matter of factly too.

[vitruvian]

I'd imagine that now that Namor has Doom whispering sweet evil nothings into his ear that he's become a pawn in a much larger game that Victor Von D is playing (if doom is even really doom right now).

Yep. They're setting up the next iteration of Supervillain Team-Up all over the place, with Doom, Namor, Loki, possibly the Red Skull and the Mandarin as well. One major question is whether Doom will be able to bring Black Panther and Wakanda into his alliance - not too likely, though, due to T'Challa's close ties to the FF.

Of course, it would be wonderfully ironic if it was this dire alliance that actually saved Earth's bacon during Secret Invasion.